Re: Curse,Black Magic(aka toona) and evil spirits
Ambersji,
I did not get a chance to read the post which you deleted, but was interested to read the part Harryji quoted in his response,
Quote: My opinion is that superstitions arise when there is difficulty to understand karma and its fruit (results)
It appeared that you were more or less on the right track. I don't know what made you change your mind, but I found it curious that you would suddenly throw Karma out of the picture, re:
Quote: but I do think life is easier without Karma.
This makes me question whether there was any understanding about Karma at all, or if it was only a label used to represent a personal view regarding cause and effect.
“Life is easier without Karma” is a position which can only reflect a world-view that is blinded by ignorance and driven by attachment. And this of course, is not only in the case of those who do not believe in karma, but almost all who do as well.
The real difficulty in understanding Karma is not the different explanations out there that has ever been given. There are many who do not have a problem thinking elaborate and complex ideas with regard to the concept. Others like to hear about and think in terms only of what they know. Different people are attached to different kinds of thinking. But whether one likes complex ideas or those that are easier to think about, the problem is in the ignorance and attachment. What is lacking in all cases is understanding, hence a sense of urgency, to attend to the reality “NOW”.
At any given moment there is only one mental or physical reality which appears, no story about “me” who is here and moving towards there. The story about “self” in the center of things is what everyone finds interesting, from which each person's preferred world view is built upon. Even in such beliefs as creator and creation where one then thinks oneself to be relatively insignificant, the motivating force is the same as in say, those who believe in this being the only life there is and therefore try to conquer as much territory as possible.
No energy is ever expended into understanding this present moment. No interest in this because here there is no place for the story of self, or the objects which self holds dear, i.e. people, things, Guru, nature, Hindu, Sikh, earth, universe, cosmos, God.
“Now” is never the object of interest until wisdom arises, at which point and for the first time, one sees that nothing else is worth knowing about. *This* is the beginning of seeing through Maya. If it is not this, then all talk about the need to overcome Maya can only be wishful thinking.
And it is in the present moment that understanding Karma takes place. So really, you have no basis absolutely, for saying that “life is easier without karma”, unless what you are in fact trying to promote is ignorance and attachment to Maya.
It doesn't change cause and effect,
The Buddha stated to the effect that whether or not he taught it, conditional relations and the law of cause and effect, (and this includes Karma) is what it is. But you are denying Karma, and so I am lead to believe that yours is a belief not based on that which is and ever will be, but exists only in your own imagination.
but it does make focusing on God and good actions much easier
It is clear now, that you have not begun to understand Karma. Karma is any volitional action through body, speech or mind which can only be known when it arises in the moment. So again I must question the object of your understanding when you suggest that, 'good actions then become much easier to focus upon'. What do you take for good and bad actions? Given that Karma is in fact a reality, I can only conclude that the good and bad that you refer to are only ideas / concepts, just as God is.
Indeed it is because we take concepts for real that the focus never comes to be directed towards the present moment reality. This means that God itself is a big diversion from “now”. In fact it has always been my impression that for someone who believes in God, if the value of good actions is seen to any extent, that this is not consequence of the belief, but in spite of it!
Perhaps this explains why belief in God and a correct understanding regarding Karma can't exist together. The latter demands the understanding of the reality vs. concept distinction, whereas the former requires that the particular concept is as a concept thought about / believed in.
if we are not constantly trying to back track through our history to understand what is going on today.
That Karma is a reality and is about moral cause and effect, this is understood by way of understanding which mental phenomena is of the nature of cause and which is resultant, as and when they arise. It does not involve having to think in terms of the past and future. You are expressing your own tendency to proliferate on the particular concept and not what it actually is.
The fact that it isn't 'generally' accepted is quite refreshing for me, as I had assumed it was. My focus is on Vedanta and Buddha Dharma more recently and hence I overlooked the differences. I am not here to champion either as it happens, but to answer a few lurking questions on my own mind.
I started responding immediately after reading the first two sentences and therefore did not know about your interest in Buddha Dharma. But since you say that Vedanta was also your interest, I reason that your take on the Buddha's teachings must therefore be flawed. But I am not here to champion the Buddha's teachings either. ;-) What I'm doing however, as in the past, is to counter attempts by some members here, to do away with Karma. Although it wouldn't be understood correctly, I still think that it is good to believe in this than, say acausality, determinism, randomness or some other ideas about moral cause and effect.
The issue remains that cause and effect is still in play. The message to sajsikh ji is that by focusing on the better causes he is more likely to experience better results.
What according to your understanding constitute “cause” and what is “result”?
In my opinion superstition and ritual will lead to incorrect results and in a sense risk a curse in the form of further unexpected or undesirable results.
Belief in superstition and rituals is denial of karma and is itself bad karma. Any wrong idea about moral cause and effect is wrong understanding, which is an unwholesome mental action. And although this does not directly lead to bad results in the form of sense experience or rebirth, it however encourages all other kinds of wrong actions through body, speech and mind. And these can result in unpleasant experiences through the senses. One has an impression of something being a “curse” because one does not understand that the unpleasant experience must be the result of some bad action performed by oneself in the past.
I do not believe in curses except if we program ourselves to believe we are a bad person or infected by something bad. This 'belief' is the root of all curses, the mistaken belief that something can sway us needs to be removed. Another reason why removing karma helps.
Where is the connection?
How is thinking oneself as bad the root of all curses? What if this follows from the perception regarding the extent of one's own ignorance and attachment? How is this related to the concept of karma? Are you perhaps trying to encourage 'positive thinking' of some kind? Are you saying to the effect that if one somehow came to perceive the extent of one's own defilements, that it is better to close one's eye to this and believe that it is not there?
As you correctly say, there is only Sat - God - and hence no thing can sway us except His will. When our will is aligned with His Hukam then there is no need to consider curse or superstitious remedy, and I humbly suggest this avenue for exploration to sajsikh ji.
Are you making a statement about moral cause and effect here? Are you suggesting that those who are superstitious, that this is due to God's will, likewise those who are not, this too is God's will? Is it then that according to you, God's will is a “cause”? If so, then can we infer that God's will has infinite variety of functions such that in one case it causes one person to think this way, and another person another way? Is your belief in God and my non-belief due to the influence of God?
