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Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Is Masculine Or Feminine And What Is The Significa

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Ambarsaria ji,
Kateb is translated as Bible in srigranth.org. It is pretty consistent across shabads.
 

Ambarsaria

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Ambarsaria ji,
True knowledge of Oan comes from meditation and Divine Grace.

Have a look at this wikipedia entry.
Bhagat Singh veer ji I am having hard enough time translating and understanding Sukhmani Sahib ji, why should I and what chance I have of doing so? May be I am little traditional and once I mastered SGGS a respectful study of other stuff could follow. Probability of such happening considering the variables of age, language and so on pretty much zero as I will not like to depend on translation without knowing original languages.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Ambarsaria ji,
Kateb is translated as Bible in srigranth.org. It is pretty consistent across shabads.
Sorry that does not make it right as follows,

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=329&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&k=1

Don't tell me that Jesus would not be mentioned in SGGS if Bible was mentioned. Try looking for Jesus compared to Hari, Shiv, etc., . Sat Sri Akal.
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਤੇ ਰਹਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਰਾ ॥੩॥੩੧॥

बेद कतेब ते रहहि निरारा ॥३॥३१॥

Beḏ kaṯeb ṯe rahėh nirārā. ||3||31||

who remain detached from the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible. ||3||31||

ਜੋ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੀ ਮਜ਼ਹਬੀ ਪੁਸਤਕਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਅਟੰਕ ਵਿਚਰਦੇ ਹਨ।

ਤੇ = ਤੋਂ। ਨਿਰਾਰਾ = ਨਿਰਾਲਾ, ਵੱਖਰਾ। ਰਹਹਿ = ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ॥੩॥੩੧॥

ਵੇਦਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਤੇਬਾਂ (ਨੂੰ ਸੱਚੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਆਖਣ ਦੇ ਝਗੜੇ) ਤੋਂ ਵੱਖਰੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ॥੩॥੩੧॥
 
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Aug 28, 2010
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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

AMBARSARIA Ji,If your Source of pronunciation is Prof Sahib Singh Ji then let us look at what Prof Sahib Singh Ji is telling

1..on page no 44 there Prof Sahib ji is clearly telling that Numerical Number One has been placed before the word Oang(Not before OankaaR)

I have considered this point in getting the Pronunciation as EKANKAAR.
and this word EKANKAAR is very much there in SGGS .

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Yes Ambarsaria ji, your efforts are praiseworthy.
Studying is fine but as I have said before intellectual understanding only goes so far. After that it's all about direct perception which comes out of emotion and intuition. If you want to have Real knowledge of what Gurbani is talking about, of what Oan is, you have to meditate either in solitude or in congregations, in silence or in noise. Meditation is key.

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
सिरीरागु महला ३ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

ਸਹਜੈ ਨੋ ਸਭ ਲੋਚਦੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਾਇਆ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
सहजै नो सभ लोचदी बिनु गुर पाइआ न जाइ ॥
Sahjai no sabẖ locẖḏī bin gur pā▫i▫ā na jā▫e.
Everyone longs to be centered and balanced, but without the Guru, no one can.

ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਜੋਤਕੀ ਥਕੇ ਭੇਖੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇ ॥
पड़ि पड़ि पंडित जोतकी थके भेखी भरमि भुलाइ ॥
Paṛ paṛ pandiṯ joṯkī thake bẖekẖī bẖaram bẖulā▫e.
The Pandits and the astrologers read and read until they grow weary, while the fanatics are deluded by doubt.

So will those who read and read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, without meditation.

ਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਸਹਜੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਆਪਣੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੧॥
गुर भेटे सहजु पाइआ आपणी किरपा करे रजाइ ॥१॥
Gur bẖete sahj pā▫i▫ā āpṇī kirpā kare rajā▫e. ||1||
Meeting with the Guru, intuitive balance is obtained, when God, in His Will, grants His Grace. ||1||

Intuitive balance is obtained when the mind becomes still, which happens through Divine Grace.

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਜੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
भाई रे गुर बिनु सहजु न होइ ॥
Bẖā▫ī re gur bin sahj na ho▫e.
O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, intuitive balance is not obtained.

ਸਬਦੈ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਸਹਜੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
सबदै ही ते सहजु ऊपजै हरि पाइआ सचु सोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Sabḏai hī ṯe sahj ūpjai har pā▫i▫ā sacẖ so▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Through the Word of the Shabad, intuitive peace and poise wells up, and that True Lord is obtained. ||1||Pause||

Meditate on the words of the shabad...

ਸਹਜੇ ਗਾਵਿਆ ਥਾਇ ਪਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਜੈ ਕਥਨੀ ਬਾਦਿ ॥
सहजे गाविआ थाइ पवै बिनु सहजै कथनी बादि ॥
Sėhje gāvi▫ā thā▫e pavai bin sahjai kathnī bāḏ.
That which is sung intuitively is acceptable; without this intuition, all chanting is useless.

:sippingcoffeemunda:

ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਊਪਜੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਪਿਆਰਿ ਬੈਰਾਗਿ ॥
सहजे ही भगति ऊपजै सहजि पिआरि बैरागि ॥
Sėhje hī bẖagaṯ ūpjai sahj pi▫ār bairāg.
In the state of intuitive balance, devotion wells up. In intuitive balance, love is balanced and detached.

:sippingcoffeemunda:

ਸਹਜੈ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਜੈ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਬਾਦਿ ॥੨॥
सहजै ही ते सुख साति होइ बिनु सहजै जीवणु बादि ॥२॥
Sahjai hī ṯe sukẖ sāṯ ho▫e bin sahjai jīvaṇ bāḏ. ||2||
In the state of intuitive balance, peace and tranquility are produced. Without intuitive balance, life is useless. ||2||

ਸਹਜਿ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਲਗਾਇ ॥
सहजि सालाही सदा सदा सहजि समाधि लगाइ ॥
Sahj sālāhī saḏā saḏā sahj samāḏẖ lagā▫e.
In the state of intuitive balance, praise the Lord forever and ever. With intuitive ease, embrace Samaadhi.

Go into a state of deep concentration, smadhi, within the mind (through meditation on praises of God), where the mind is still and satisfied with itself, as it, whatever it is, and there is no attachment or pull towards anything.

ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਣ ਊਚਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥
सहजे ही गुण ऊचरै भगति करे लिव लाइ ॥
Sėhje hī guṇ ūcẖrai bẖagaṯ kare liv lā▫e.
In the state of intuitive balance, chant His Glories, lovingly absorbed in devotional worship.

ਸਬਦੇ ਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਰਸਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਖਾਇ ॥੩॥
सबदे ही हरि मनि वसै रसना हरि रसु खाइ ॥३॥
Sabḏe hī har man vasai rasnā har ras kẖā▫e. ||3||
Through the Shabad, the Lord dwells within the mind, and the tongue tastes the Sublime Essence of the Lord. ||3||

ਸਹਜੇ ਕਾਲੁ ਵਿਡਾਰਿਆ ਸਚ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਪਾਇ ॥
सहजे कालु विडारिआ सच सरणाई पाइ ॥
Sėhje kāl vidāri▫ā sacẖ sarṇā▫ī pā▫e.
In the poise of intuitive balance, death is destroyed, entering the Sanctuary of the True One.

ਸਹਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸਚੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਇ ॥
सहजे हरि नामु मनि वसिआ सची कार कमाइ ॥
Sėhje har nām man vasi▫ā sacẖī kār kamā▫e.
Intuitively balanced, the Name of the Lord dwells within the mind, practicing the lifestyle of Truth.

ਸੇ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਹਜੇ ਰਹੇ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
से वडभागी जिनी पाइआ सहजे रहे समाइ ॥४॥
Se vadbẖāgī jinī pā▫i▫ā sėhje rahe samā▫e. ||4||
Those who have found Him are very fortunate; they remain intuitively absorbed in Him. ||4||

ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਹਜੁ ਨ ਊਪਜੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥
माइआ विचि सहजु न ऊपजै माइआ दूजै भाइ ॥
Mā▫i▫ā vicẖ sahj na ūpjai mā▫i▫ā ḏūjai bẖā▫e.
Within Maya, the poise of intuitive balance is not produced. Maya leads to the love of duality.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਜਲੈ ਜਲਾਇ ॥
मनमुख करम कमावणे हउमै जलै जलाइ ॥
Manmukẖ karam kamāvṇe ha▫umai jalai jalā▫e.
The self-willed manmukhs perform religious rituals, but they are burnt down by their selfishness and conceit.

ਜੰਮਣੁ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਚੂਕਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੫॥
जमणु मरणु न चूकई फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥५॥
Jamaṇ maraṇ na cẖūk▫ī fir fir āvai jā▫e. ||5||
Their births and deaths do not cease; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation. ||5||

ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਹਜੁ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇ ॥
त्रिहु गुणा विचि सहजु न पाईऐ त्रै गुण भरमि भुलाइ ॥
Ŧarihu guṇā vicẖ sahj na pā▫ī▫ai ṯarai guṇ bẖaram bẖulā▫e.
In the three qualities, intuitive balance is not obtained; the three qualities lead to delusion and doubt.

The three qualities are sattva (seeking truth), rajas (having passion and willpower) and tamas (laziness). People have varying amounts of these three qualities in them.

ਪੜੀਐ ਗੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਆ ਕਥੀਐ ਜਾ ਮੁੰਢਹੁ ਘੁਥਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
पड़ीऐ गुणीऐ किआ कथीऐ जा मुंढहु घुथा जाइ ॥
Paṛī▫ai guṇī▫ai ki▫ā kathī▫ai jā mundẖhu gẖuthā jā▫e.
What is the point of reading, studying and debating, if one loses his roots?

What is the point of reading, studying and debating, if one forgets his essence? That is what is the point if you do not meditate (go deep into the essence i.e. smadhi).

ਚਉਥੇ ਪਦ ਮਹਿ ਸਹਜੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥੬॥
चउथे पद महि सहजु है गुरमुखि पलै पाइ ॥६॥
Cẖa▫uthe paḏ mėh sahj hai gurmukẖ palai pā▫e. ||6||
In the fourth state, there is intuitive balance; the Gurmukhs gather it in. ||6||

Cultivate a still mind.

ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥
निरगुण नामु निधानु है सहजे सोझी होइ ॥
Nirguṇ nām niḏẖān hai sėhje sojẖī ho▫e.
The Naam, the Name of the Formless Lord, is the treasure. Through intuitive balance, understanding is obtained.

ਗੁਣਵੰਤੀ ਸਾਲਾਹਿਆ ਸਚੇ ਸਚੀ ਸੋਇ ॥
गुणवंती सालाहिआ सचे सची सोइ ॥
Guṇvanṯī salāhi▫ā sacẖe sacẖī so▫e.
The virtuous praise the True One; their reputation is true.

ਭੁਲਿਆ ਸਹਜਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਸੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੭॥
भुलिआ सहजि मिलाइसी सबदि मिलावा होइ ॥७॥
Bẖuli▫ā sahj milā▫isī sabaḏ milāvā ho▫e. ||7||
The wayward are united with God through intuitive balance; through the Shabad, union is obtained. ||7||

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਅੰਧੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥
बिनु सहजै सभु अंधु है माइआ मोहु गुबारु ॥
Bin sahjai sabẖ anḏẖ hai mā▫i▫ā moh gubār.
Without intuitive balance, all are blind. Emotional attachment to Maya is utter darkness.

ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਈ ਸਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ ॥
सहजे ही सोझी पई सचै सबदि अपारि ॥
Sėhje hī sojẖī pa▫ī sacẖai sabaḏ apār.
In intuitive balance, understanding of the True, Infinite Shabad is obtained.

ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਅਨੁ ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥੮॥
आपे बखसि मिलाइअनु पूरे गुर करतारि ॥८॥
Āpe bakẖas milā▫i▫an pūre gur karṯār. ||8||
Granting forgiveness, the Perfect Guru unites us with the Creator. ||8||

ਸਹਜੇ ਅਦਿਸਟੁ ਪਛਾਣੀਐ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਜੋਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥
सहजे अदिसटु पछाणीऐ निरभउ जोति निरंकारु ॥
Sėhje aḏisat pacẖẖāṇī▫ai nirbẖa▫o joṯ nirankār.
In intuitive balance, the Unseen is recognized-the Fearless, Luminous, Formless Lord.

:sippingcoffeemunda: Direct perception!

ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
सभना जीआ का इकु दाता जोती जोति मिलावणहारु ॥
Sabẖnā jī▫ā kā ik ḏāṯā joṯī joṯ milāvaṇhār.
There is only the One Giver of all beings. He blends our light with His Light.

ਪੂਰੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੯॥
पूरै सबदि सलाहीऐ जिस दा अंतु न पारावारु ॥९॥
Pūrai sabaḏ salāhī▫ai jis ḏā anṯ na pārāvār. ||9||
So praise God through the Perfect Word of His Shabad; He has no end or limitation. ||9||

ਗਿਆਨੀਆ ਕਾ ਧਨੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਸਹਜਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥
गिआनीआ का धनु नामु है सहजि करहि वापारु ॥
Gi▫ānī▫ā kā ḏẖan nām hai sahj karahi vāpār.
Those who are wise take the Naam as their wealth; with intuitive ease, they trade with Him.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਲਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੈਨਿ ਅਖੁਟ ਭਰੇ ਭੰਡਾਰ ॥
अनदिनु लाहा हरि नामु लैनि अखुट भरे भंडार ॥
An▫ḏin lāhā har nām lain akẖut bẖare bẖandār.
Night and day, they receive the Profit of the Lord's Name, which is an inexhaustible and over-flowing treasure.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤੋਟਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਦੀਏ ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰਿ ॥੧੦॥੬॥੨੩॥
नानक तोटि न आवई दीए देवणहारि ॥१०॥६॥२३॥
Nānak ṯot na āvī ḏī▫e ḏevaṇhār. ||10||6||23||
O Guru Nanak, when the Great Giver gives, nothing at all is lacking. ||10||6||23||
 

ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

Bhagat Singh Ji, immediate thoughts I am writting

Every existence (living or non living/ animated or non animated) has atom as base.
Connecting to the syllable

Energy governs three states, for an atom.
And flow of energy belongs to nature.

One can understand the flow

Desire born with light
Thought has air/
It connects with liquid/
Needs for material


Form may exist as
As Solid (Lower Energy Formation)
As Liquid
As Gas (Higher Energy Formation)

Choice and Understanding role of higher formations/ existence/ and sustainability is important

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

RAVNEET SINGH sb,
Gurbani is telling about SINGLE STATE OF THE MATTER which is the Source and Cause of Trinity (Three states of the visible matter) character of the Universe.
We should learn from Gurbani about this SINGLE STATE Of THE MATTER>
More clearly the SINGLE STATE OF THE MATTER is described by Divine words in terms of NAAMu.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

The fact is that Sant Singh Khalsa's literal translation of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, is not only very distorting but insulting to our visionary Gurus.

I have mentioned the same in many of my posts in this forum and also shown the blatant distortions.

It is rather futile if we just depend on the literal translations of the authors for our understanding of the Shabad Guru without counter checking with the interpretations by the others in Gurmukhi like Prof. Sahib Singh- the best so far- and then make up our mind.

Literal translations are NOT interpretations. No one can do justice to any poetry through literal translations.They are what the name states. Each word translated literally without focusing on the understanding of the whole. Nothing more.

This beautiful poetry in the SGGS, our only Guru has to be lived in prose in our real lives as urged by our Gurus, which is the life of Miri-Piri.

Unfortunately, literal translations do not have the tools to offer that. At best, they can be called mere indicators to delve deeper in the understanding of Gurbani. This is the reason I urge all to express the Gurbani in prose with their own thoughts beside copying and pasting the whole shabads or one liners. The latter is a big NO NO and an insult which does not help us to understand Gurbani with its full potential that it offers.

Tejwant Singh
 
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Harry Haller

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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Gurfatehji

I read yesterdays Hukamnama with interest, the translation did not make a huge amount of sense, so I attempted to read the original, it was a mind opener, it is written like a best friend trying to guide you, not a father, or a mother, not patronising, not an order, but simply a mate, telling you in very simple terms, what its all about, although I missed a few words, it made much much more sense than the english translation,

We need to move away from a reliance on others translations, although where the language is not Punjabi, that is easier said than done.

Its funny, but you can even sense when 'matey' playfully slaps the back of your head and smiles at you, and also when 'matey' realises you have got it, and ruffles your hair

You cannot get that from the english, the reading in its natural state provides a completely different experience like the difference between an aircraft simulator and the real thing
 

Ambarsaria

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AMBARSARIA Ji,

Let us know what is Source of Pronunciation of the SYMBOL as Ik Oankaar.
I am fully open to accept if this is proved from Gurbani that Ik Oankaar is the actual and correct pronunciation of the SYMBOL.
Let us be very sincere in knowing this as this is the starting point of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .

Prakash.S.Bagga
Prakash.s.bagga ji I have no further interest to further interpret what a given author has clearly determined after reviewing own understanding as Prof. Sahib Singh ji has and it is posted in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37654-creator-god-Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji-masculine-feminine-what-4.html#post157126

As well as in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37225-sri-guru-granth-sahib-review-ik.html

The quoted conclusion from Prof. Sahib Singh ji,
eykMkwru-eyk EAMkwr, auh iek EAM jo iek-rs hY, jo hr QW ivAwpk hY[
so, "<>" dw au~cwrn hY " iek (eyk) EAMkwr" Aqy iesdw ArQ hY "iek Akwl purK, jo iek-rs ivAwpk hY"[

I accept Prof. Sahib Singh ji's interpretation as correct to best of my knowledge and experience.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

BhagatSingh

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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Harry ji
My name comes from that Hukumnama (the Sikhnet one).

ਭਗਤਿ ਖਜਾਨਾ ਭਗਤਨ ਕਉ ਦੀਆ ਨਾਉ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
भगति खजाना भगतन कउ दीआ नाउ हरि धनु सचु सोइ ॥
Bẖagaṯ kẖajānā bẖagṯan ka▫o ḏī▫ā nā▫o har ḏẖan sacẖ so▫e.
The True Lord has blessed His devotees with the treasure of devotional worship, and the wealth of the Lord's Name.

...and that answers my question on siharis. If there is a sihari at the end of a noun, in this case Bhagat, then it makes it a verb. Bhagat(i) is what a Bhagat does, that is, devotional worship. Bhagat is plural, whereas Bhagat(u) is singular.

You always learn more when it's about you. icecreammunda
 

Tejwant Singh

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Harry ji
My name comes from that Hukumnama (the Sikhnet one).

ਭਗਤਿ ਖਜਾਨਾ ਭਗਤਨ ਕਉ ਦੀਆ ਨਾਉ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
भगति खजाना भगतन कउ दीआ नाउ हरि धनु सचु सोइ ॥
Bẖagaṯ kẖajānā bẖagṯan ka▫o ḏī▫ā nā▫o har ḏẖan sacẖ so▫e.
The True Lord has blessed His devotees with the treasure of devotional worship, and the wealth of the Lord's Name.

...and that answers my question on siharis. If there is a sihari at the end of a noun, in this case Bhagat, then it makes it a verb. Bhagat(i) is what a Bhagat does, that is, devotional worship. Bhagat is plural, whereas Bhagat(u) is singular.

You always learn more when it's about you. icecreammunda

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have a different take on this one.

Allow me to pitch in my 2 cent worth.

ਭਗਤਿ ਖਜਾਨਾ ਭਗਤਨ ਕਉ ਦੀਆ ਨਾਉ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥

The Sihari in Bhagat- the first word- makes it a preposition not a verb which means the treasure given to the Bhagats/ਭਗਤਨ. In other words, the treasure of the ਭਗਤਨ. The verb in the above is ਦੀਆ and ਭਗਤਨ is plural not a singular.

ਭਗਤਿ ਖਜਾਨਾ becomes a compound noun with preposition because of the sihari.
 
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Ambarsaria

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Harry ji
My name comes from that Hukumnama (the Sikhnet one).

ਭਗਤਿ ਖਜਾਨਾ ਭਗਤਨ ਕਉ ਦੀਆ ਨਾਉ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
भगति खजाना भगतन कउ दीआ नाउ हरि धनु सचु सोइ ॥
Bẖagaṯ kẖajānā bẖagṯan ka▫o ḏī▫ā nā▫o har ḏẖan sacẖ so▫e.
The True Lord has blessed His devotees with the treasure of devotional worship, and the wealth of the Lord's Name.

...and that answers my question on siharis. If there is a sihari at the end of a noun, in this case Bhagat, then it makes it a verb. Bhagat(i) is what a Bhagat does, that is, devotional worship. Bhagat is plural, whereas Bhagat(u) is singular.

You always learn more when it's about you. icecreammunda

Veer Bhagat Singh ji the following some comments,

ਭਗਤਿ ---> Bhagat eh (with little emphasis on h) ---> to the Bhagats

ਭਗਤੀ ---> Bhagat ee ---> Contemplation done by Bhagat

ਭਗਤੁ ---> Bhagat oh (with little emphasis on h) ---> Do contemplation !

ਭਗਤੋ ---> Bhagat OH ---> Addressing Bhagats !

ਭਗਤ ---> Our veer Bhagat Singh ---> One recognized as a contemplator

Let us see how the red ones can be verified to be true in my translation. I could not get to SriGranth.org.

Any comments!

Sat Sri Akal.
 

BhagatSingh

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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

I am also waiting for srigranth.org
Before srigranth went down, I did look up bhagat(u), it is singular of bhagat (plural).

In the meanwhile I figured out what you were quoting and where you were quoting from. I got the fonts but it appears the fonts used in the thread are not the same.

EDIT:
srigranth is up. Bhagat(i) means the same thing as Bhagatee.
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਗਤਿ

Also it is still pronounced Bhagat apparently. Not Bhagat eh.

ਭਗਤੋ is not used in Gurbani.
 
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Ambarsaria

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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Sorry Bhagat Singh ji my fonts are all mixed up as I try to cut and paste and sometimes the Word program and does its magic and changes and when I post to SPN the Web posting does its magic and changes it. So I get lost and perhaps many others do it too.

Is there something you recommend that transparently cleans it up? I know Srigranth.org cut and paste always works good.

I don't know if you aware of the following pretty neat tool from Punjabi University in Patiala I believe,

http://pgc.learnpunjabi.org/

Root = ਭਗਤ
(Tag: NNMSD; WordClass: Noun; Gender: Masculine; Number: Singular; Case: Direct;)
(Tag: NNMSO; WordClass: Noun; Gender: Masculine; Number: Singular; Case: Oblique;)
(Tag: NNMPD; WordClass: Noun; Gender: Masculine; Number: Plural; Case: Direct;)

Sat Sri Akal
 

BhagatSingh

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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Ambarsaria ji,
Installing Raavi didn't do it but when I pasted your quote in Word it showed Web Akhar. I got those and it worked.

I think you might have missed this in a previous reply.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ is not Brahma (though it encapsulates Brahma) but Brahman, the ultimate reality.
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬ੍ਰਹਮ

Ong is Brahman - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman



Prakash ji,
AMBARSARIA Ji,

Let us know what is Source of Pronunciation of the SYMBOL as Ik Oankaar.
I am fully open to accept if this is proved from Gurbani that Ik Oankaar is the actual and correct pronunciation of the SYMBOL.
Let us be very sincere in knowing this as this is the starting point of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .

Prakash.S.Bagga
Why does the pronounciation matter?
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

AMBARSARIA Ji,
Well it is your choice to accept anything but I am not prepared for.. anything out of Gurbani.
.This difference of understanding is always going to stay.Till 1990 I also had the same understanding as yours but after getting confirmed from SGGS that there is no such message like IK Onkaar this changed tmy whole way of Gurbani understanding.
I am never adamant on any point so far Gurbani is concerned.Once a Gursikh from Canada pointed out a common mistake I have been making I immediately realised the fact and changed my views since then.
My concern is only that why any thing which is not a part of SGGS should be accepted.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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Ambarsaria ji,

Why does the pronunciation matter?
Bhagat Singh ji there is quite a difference in the following as presented by Prakash Singh Bagga ji as Combination A or Combination B,


COMBINATION A....Here Numerical Number is taken as IKas separate and word Ong is combined with KaaR to get as Oankaar.
We write this as IK Oankaar as the pronunciation and give meaning accordingly.

COMBINATION .B...Here Numerical Number can be along withword Ong as EKONg and Kaar can be taken as separate to get as EKANKAAR.
The Sanskrit composite word that follows ੧ is subject to scholarly pursuits and analysis. Such analysis impacts the meaning of .
COMBINATION A: As per Prof. Sahib Singh ji,

eykMkwru-eyk EAMkwr, auh iek EAM jo iek-rs hY, jo hr QW ivAwpk hY[
so, "<>" dw au~cwrn hY " iek (eyk) EAMkwr" Aqy iesdw ArQ hY "iek Akwl purK, jo iek-rs ivAwpk hY"[

Combination B: As per Prakash.s.bagga ji as
EKANKAAR from my limited knowledge translates to the following,
EKANKAAR ---> One who does all or creates all
There is a huge difference in Combination B as it becomes a single entity in control and Combination A it is single entity present in all. Combination B leads to persons, concepts of a self, a persona or such creating all whereas in Combination A the creator is integral part of all creation and hence no one can be called a deity as a creator, a person as a creator, a persona as a creator, or a specific system as a creator.

Combination A preserves equality of all and creator/creation being one.

Combination B becomes Abrahamanic, Hinduism and such with assignment of superior and specific persona, a specific system, a specific order of one creating/controlling and others following or being under control, etc.

I reject combination B in reference to combination A as per Prof. Sahib Singh ji.

I stand corrected though but I share for discourse.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Bhagat Singh ji there is quite a difference in the following as presented by Prakash Singh Bagga ji as Combination A or Combination B,


The Sanskrit composite word that follows ੧ is subject to scholarly pursuits and analysis. Such analysis impacts the meaning of .
COMBINATION A: As per Prof. Sahib Singh ji,


Combination B: As per Prakash.s.bagga ji as EKANKAAR from my limited knowledge translates to the following,
There is a huge difference in Combination B as it becomes a single entity in control and Combination A it is single entity present in all. Combination B leads to persons, concepts of a self, a persona or such creating all whereas in Combination A the creator is integral part of all creation and hence no one can be called a deity as a creator, a person as a creator, a persona as a creator, or a specific system as a creator.

Combination A preserves equality of all and creator/creation being one.

Combination B becomes Abrahamanic, Hinduism and such with assignment of superior and specific persona, a specific system, a specific order of one creating/controlling and others following or being under control, etc.

I reject combination B in reference to combination A as per Prof. Sahib Singh ji.

I stand corrected though but I share for discourse.

Sat Sri Akal.


AMBARSARIA Ji,
I think you are taking Prof Sahib Singh ji for guaranted whereas I consider
SGGS as guaranted.
Secondly the explanation of combination B is your own.I am yet to come with my views on the explanation of combination B.
I dont mind having rejected any combination.But I am surprised at your unilateral decision on the combination B.
I would still look forward to any of Quote from Gurbani mentioning combination A as IK ONkAAR but for sure you can see the message of Gurbani as EKANKAAR combination B thru the whole of SGGS .
At the moment I can say nothing more than this.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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AMBARSARIA Ji,
I think you are taking Prof Sahib Singh ji for guaranted whereas I consider
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as guaranted.
Secondly the explanation of combination B is your own.I am yet to come with my views on the explanation of combination B.
I dont mind having rejected any combination.But I am surprised at your unilateral decision on the combination B.
I would still look forward to any of Quote from Gurbani mentioning combination A as IK ONkAAR but for sure you can see the message of Gurbani as EKANKAAR combination B thru the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .
At the moment I can say nothing more than this.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Prakash.s.bagga ji the above is just my opinion as yours is to accept and mine is to reject. No hard feelings or dis-respect at all just that it does not make sense to me. Of course Ekankaar as appropriate is used as well as derivatives of Kaar. Why was not used everywhere is equally important versus Ekankaar.
I accept Prof. Sahib Singh ji's discourse as complete and specific and I so respectfully accept his explanation for
. I personally do not accept all blindly but with due consideration and sounding of my heart and mind.

You have not shared why you were convinced by a person in Canada to believe in Ekankaar perhaps it may be helpful in this dialog if you wish to share.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

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