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Islam Creation In Islam

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Aug 27, 2005
Baltimore Md USA
I am sure you are right but they have room for literalists as well as opposed to some protestant churches who preach only creationism or the Bible literally. I offer the Southern Baptist as an example.


1947-2014 (Archived)
Jun 17, 2004
Satyaban j

Thanks. That is pretty close to my meaning. There are 100's of different Christian faiths. Some espouse creationism or intelligent design or a literal interpretation of the Bible. Others like Roman Catholicism or even the American Baptist Church do not and they accept the theory of evolution. There is no one "Christian" position about this.

They are all different on this point. :)


Feb 16, 2009
Surrey, BC, Canada
azizrasul sahib.
And what does your Qu'ran say about where the sun sets everyday..... in a muddy pond. Sikh brothers and sisters do check out , to find out what ISLAM really stands for. It's not a religion .It's more of a cult. I also strongly suggest that you must read 'The Truth About Muhammad ' founder of the world's most intolerant religion. Robert Spencer is the author. You will find out what Muslims donot want to talk about and much more.


Feb 16, 2009
Surrey, BC, Canada
shearwater.What are you doing on this site ? The fact is Jesus was executed and nothing more to it. What ever he might have said was already there in the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures.He was neither god nor his son. He was simply a Jewish rabbi who wanted to reform Judaism.The entrenched Jewish establishment and their Roman masters couldnot let him rock the boat. If it weren't for John no one would have ever heard of Jesus. Sikhism is the right path. But those who want to wander away on other paths , hopelessness is their destination.


Apr 4, 2008
What would you say if you heard of a Christian religion where the theory of evolution was the official doctrine?
Frankly, every person must establish in his own mind whether to take the Bible creation story literally and to what extent. There are portions of the Bible that are to be taken literally, such as the Ten Commandment which apply universally. The other ceremonial laws of the Bible were done away with when Jesus came. There are other portions of the Bible that are history and could be taken as fact. Then you have the poetic books such as the Psalms which express man's deepest longings and searching after God. Frankly, I do not believe in biological evolution in factual terms because intelligent design is more rationally acceptable. I understand how complicated the cell is and how such a complex organism could work without an intelligence being at the center and controlling it. The Bible says that "In him we live and move and have our being." That is true, I believe, of every living organism on the planet. Certainly God could have used evolution to create organisms if he chose to. But as for man, he was created a special being. We see variations withing species, but every animal reproduces itself with a certain DNA which is not easily changed.

A few years ago, my professional society announced that it renounced the theory of intelligent design and embraced the theory of evolution as proposed by Charles Darwin. I wrote the president of the society that I thought that taking a hard and fast position on such an issue was unscientific in that many theories in science change over time and are replaced periodically with other theories that prove more true. There are many members of that society who by virtue of their Christian faith do not subscribe to Darwin's theory. I will admit that most schools of higher education have thrown out intelligent design in favor of evolution, and secular man tends to throw out religion as a mystical abberration and sometimes totally irrelevant.

From my own point of view, the Roman Catholic Church has not focused on the Bible as the principle source for its teachings. It has rather relied on traditions and its own dogma, deeply engrained because of long time application and use. It proposes that equal sources of revelation lie in papal interpretation and authority. For that reason I am a protestant Christian.


1947-2014 (Archived)
Jun 17, 2004
Shearwater ji,

Since I am not a Christian, the debate has interest for me because it allows us to explore in an intelligent way all the various ways in which sects and religions view a single topic. This is a rich meal. Your post above demonstrates how complex and interesting the comparison of religions can be. :yes:


Apr 4, 2008
I think some people of other faiths tend to reject what may challenge their own faith. One reason I like the Sikh faith is that the Guru Granth Sahib has many teachings that parallel our own and it causes me to think more seriously about the connection.
Aug 27, 2005
Baltimore Md USA
Nalwal: When I see posts that lean very far in one direction or another and cite links as support I always check the source. I have to say that I checked the source of your link I found it laking in balance.

Aug 27, 2005
Baltimore Md USA
nalwa: Something about your posts just don't sit right with me. I find Jesus to be a holy and enlightened saint. I would not slam another's faith and have respect for all. I prefer to look at the commonalities of their teachings.


Tejwant Singh

Jun 30, 2004
Henderson, NV.
Interesting Essay about Creationism by Dr. I. J. Singh

Evolution & Sikhi:
A Tribute to Charles Darwin

The following article is reproduced as a tribute to Charles Darwin and his seminal work on the theory of evolution, to mark the 200th anniversary of his birth this month. In this essay, first written in 2006, we present evolution and related matters from a Sikh perspective.

Did man descend from monkeys? From the point of view of the monkey, the idea might be a slippery slope downwards.
The theory of evolution posits a connection between apes and humans that humans might find demeaning to their sense of centrality in God's creation.
Therefore, both Charles Darwin the man and his theory of evolution have had a checkered history in the United States.
Historically, this country has assiduously sought separation of church and state. At the same time, conservative Christianity has tried to bend the law to define what is taught in American schools.
In 1860, Bishop Wilberforce led the first attack on Darwin's theory. In 1925 John Scopes, a teacher in Tennessee was convicted of teaching the "godless" theory of evolution. And now almost 80 years later, just as a legal challenge to the teaching of evolution came to a head in Dover, Pennsylvania, Pat Robertson, the well-known evangelist, warned the people of Dover that they faced divine wrath for siding with Darwin. One would think that even God would not be nursing his rage for so long.
These are not the only milestones in the war over evolution.
In 1968, the Supreme Court, headed by Justice Earl Warren, rejected an Arkansas law that prohibited the teaching of evolution in public schools. Arkansas then passed a new law requiring equal time for Creationism; it was struck down the next year.
In 1996, Pope John Paul II conceded that evolution was more than a theory and that there was no conflict between the teaching of evolution and Roman Catholic belief. But then, President George W. Bush weighed in for creationism, wrapped as "Intelligent Design."
These were mere skirmishes; the war still goes on.
Interestingly, Darwin is honoured by Britain with his picture on the ten-pound currency bill, while in America he is reviled. Less than half of all Americans believe in evolution, while the federal judge, appointed by the same President, ruled in the Dover case at the end of 2005, dismissing the suit by creationists with a chuckle and a scolding.
Darwin's idea of evolution via natural selection was not entirely original; others were thinking along similar lines. But his was the most painstakingly detailed and coherent schema with convincing evidence.
His wife, a zealous Christian, worried that he might be destined for hell.
Why and how did a scientific hypothesis run into such opposition from organized religion, particularly Christianity? To understand this, keep in mind the fate of Galileo, who was forced to recant in the face of Papal edicts of condemnation and ex-communication.
Much of the controversy between science and religion stems from too literal a reading of the Genesis chapter in the Old Testament. To insist that God completed his creative mission in six days, from Monday to Saturday, lessens the mystery of creation. To believe that God created man in his own image is to reduce God to an anthropomorphic being.
This is neither science nor religion.
To disbelieve the geologic evidence, which posits that earth is at least 4.5 billion years old makes little sense, when any evidence to the contrary does not exist. If one reads literal truth into what should be interpreted metaphorically, such conflict is inevitable.
The very literal reading of Genesis would force us to abandon all paleontological evidence and interpret all fossils as the remnants of the Great Flood and Noah's Ark.
To a world that seeks a very human-like God's hand in every act in our lives, ranging from winning the lottery to an unfortunate tsunami, it is inconceivable that chance and natural selection could be the keys to evolution.
It is difficult for us to relate to a God that has a universal presence within each of us, does not have a fixed address and abode, and does not micromanage our lives.
The unfortunate divide between science and religion is a sad reflection on the sorry state of public education in this country. Science provides no answer on why I am here but it strives mightily and unendingly to find order in nature, and to discover how natural processes work.
What is the purpose of life, why do I exist and what should I do about it, are the domains of religion and philosophy, not science.
The concerns of science and religion are not mutually exclusive, but are complementary. Religion can lend meaning to life, whatever the facts that science discovers about the mechanics of life itself.
There are many scientists like Stephen Jay Gould, a prolific writer on science and evolution, and Francis Collins, the head of the Human Genome Project, who take this approach.
But what do the theorists of Intelligent Design say? What exactly are their working hypotheses? It seems they depend not on evidence, but on perceived holes in the evolutionary model.
The primary argument hangs on one conviction. Look at even the smallest, least complicated animal, a single cell, or an organelle within it. Its organization is so complex, the internal structure of the basic cell or organelle so complicated that it could not have evolved from molecules or a random collection of smaller, simpler units. Just as even the smallest functioning machine cannot be assembled by randomly throwing together all the necessary parts, similarly the functioning cell requires that an intelligent guide or director control the process.
This argument takes strength for the believers when they look at an extremely complicated structure, such as the eye.
Some scientists take the middle ground, concede to an extent the guiding hand of God, and then posit that God does not further manage the course of life forms but leaves them to evolve according to their needs and circumstances at a given geographical location.
Darwin proposed natural selection as the method that gave advantage to certain variations that drove the process of evolution. It escapes me why the believers cannot accept that natural selection is the modus operandi of intelligent design.
I believe Darwin and his ideas are anathema to many for three reasons.
Firstly, Darwin did not endear himself to organized Christianity when he encountered slave-owning devout Christians who spouted scriptures to support their policies; his belief was severely shaken.
The second larger reason echoes the fate of Copernicus and Galileo. Like these two men before him, to the ordinary Christian, Darwin had removed mankind from its self-appointed central position in creation.
Thirdly, Darwin's theory was telling the people that invoking God was unnecessary to running mundane details of everyday life. Managing of the world was now mankind's own responsibility.
If we conceive of God as an anthropomorphic being, then it is inevitable that we would place mankind at the center of creation and that is what a literal reading of Genesis would do. It is difficult to reconcile this to our puny existence on a small, fragile planet in an immense universe that is one of many universes; perhaps just as many universes remain undiscovered.
Our sense of being the central focus of the universe is bound to suffer when we realize that there is 98 percent congruity between the human genome and that of the chimpanzee.
What we need to do is to accept this as hukam, live in grace, and celebrate the two percent that makes us human. Look at the existence of a human and that of a chimp and this two percent assumes dramatic proportion and meaning. This two percent enhances us; it does not demean or lessen mankind.
And that is the central essence of Sikh teaching on this matter.
The Gurus speak of 8,400,000 species of life, but it is not a fixed number they have in mind.
This number comes from Indian culture and Hindu mythology. The cultural context of language has to be comprehended, not its literal usage. The number is used in the same sense, as I would say "a gazillion species" in English. It merely points to an inconceivably large number.
The Gurus are saying, "There is a huge unknown number of species..."
Guru Granth does not ask us to look for our ancestors in the rats, mice and {censored}roaches that are all around us. Although this thought is found in some religions, Sikhism does not interpret karma in this manner.
Treat all creation with dignity and respect is what Sikhism would ask. At death we are returned to the Earth from which we all arise, to be incorporated in the universal biological cycle of which we are integral parts.
I know in our complicated existence it is easier and tempting to look for simple solutions. Guru Granth repeatedly speaks of God as an infinite presence, of unlimited power and possibilities.
A Sikh reading Guru Granth may be tempted to put God in the director's chair from where he manages even the most trivial happening in his universe. A simplistic interpretation of gurbani might then lead us to see congruence with conservative Christianity's restrictive views on evolution.
I submit that "vicchar" or reason and analytic thoughtfulness are integral and critical components of being or becoming a Sikh. We cannot embrace the teachings of Guru Granth and embark on the path of becoming a Sikh without our critical faculties.
Leave them not outside when you explore Guru Granth. When the Good Book asks us to walk in the shadow of the Lord, it enjoins us to recognize the infinite Ultimate Reality that is within each of us and of which we are all a part. Do not cast God in the role of an anthropomorphic father. It would create a conflict between reason and faith, between our head and heart, between science and religion, that does not really exist. A literal reading of gurbani would surely land us in trouble of our own making.
Guru Nanak spoke clearly of the void that preceded the creation of the universe. He asserted that no one knows the date, day and time when the universe was created, when it will end, or under what circumstances.
He also spoke of a multitude of universes, planets and stars. He rejected the idea of a giant - like Atlas in Greek mythology - or a bull - as in Hindu mythology - supporting the weight of the world.
Guru Nanak's words are amazingly modern and consonant with our scientific notions of creation. They suggest absolutely no conflict between science and religion.

Much as it would be pointless to demand that the theory of a flat Earth be included in school curricula, it would be foolish to bring Genesis into the classroom to teach science or evolution. Genesis is a compelling story with layered nuances and meanings that are best discussed as literature and abiding philosophy.
And that would by no means diminish the story or its inspiration.
Yes, there are gaps in the evidence for evolution that belong in a classroom and deserve airing, not by theologians but by scientists who are the best arbiters of the evidence. Science will continue to debate the mechanics of evolution, not the fact that it occurred or that it continues without abatement.
Man will continue to evolve, if ever so slowly and so slightly.

[Reproduced from: The World According to Sikhi, by I.J. Singh. The Centennial Foundation, Canada, 2006]
February 16, 2009 | The Art and Culture of the Diaspora | Article Detail


Apr 4, 2008
An example of similarity in teaching of the Guru Granth Sahib I find in the New Testament is the one found in Ephesians 6:10-17. It says we are soldiers . . Khalsa are soldier saints!

13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Whenever I read that I think of the Khalsa . . . soldier saints of the Sikh religion. They were taught the marshal arts to defend themselves and not cower under the oppression of the Muslim raiders that intimidated them.


Apr 4, 2008
Christians regard the scripture about our power which is not a physical force but a spiritual one.

2 Corinthians3-5

3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


Apr 29, 2005
You are hunderd !00% right which is better explained in Sikhism that we are one and come from one light. There is no relegion cult but truth which rules.

Randip Singh

May 25, 2005
United Kingdom
Don't Muslims believe the world was created in 7 days like Christians?

pAGE 4 AND 5

ਸੁਅਸਤਿ ਆਥਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਬਰਮਾਉ
सुअसति आथि बाणी बरमाउ ॥
Su▫asaṯ āth baṇī barmā▫o.
I bow to the Lord of the World, to His Word, to Brahma the Creator.

ਸਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਣੁ ਸਦਾ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ
सति सुहाणु सदा मनि चाउ ॥
Saṯ suhāṇ saḏā man cẖā▫o.
He is Beautiful, True and Eternally Joyful.

ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ
कवणु सु वेला वखतु कवणु कवण थिति कवणु वारु ॥
Kavaṇ so velā vakẖaṯ kavaṇ kavaṇ thiṯ kavaṇ vār.
What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date?

ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ
कवणि सि रुती माहु कवणु जितु होआ आकारु ॥
Kavaṇ sė ruṯī māhu kavaṇ jiṯ ho▫ā ākār.
What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created?

ਵੇਲ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ
वेल न पाईआ पंडती जि होवै लेखु पुराणु ॥
vel na pā▫ī▫ā pandṯī jė hovai lekẖ purāṇ.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas.

ਵਖਤੁ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ
वखतु न पाइओ कादीआ जि लिखनि लेखु कुराणु ॥
vakẖaṯ na pā▫i▫o kāḏī▫ā jė likẖan lekẖ kurāṇ.
That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran.

ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ
थिति वारु ना जोगी जाणै रुति माहु ना कोई ॥
Thiṯ vār nā jogī jāṇai ruṯ māhu nā ko▫ī.
The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season.

ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ
जा करता सिरठी कउ साजे आपे जाणै सोई ॥
Jā karṯā sirṯẖī ka▫o sāje āpe jāṇai so▫ī.
The Creator who created this creation-only He Himself knows.

ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ
किव करि आखा किव सालाही किउ वरनी किव जाणा ॥
Kiv kar ākẖā kiv sālāhī ki▫o varnī kiv jāṇā.
How can we speak of Him? How can we praise Him? How can we describe Him? How can we know Him?

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ
नानक आखणि सभु को आखै इक दू इकु सिआणा ॥
Nānak ākẖaṇ sabẖ ko ākẖai ik ḏū ik si▫āṇā.
O Nanak, everyone speaks of Him, each one wiser than the rest.

ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਵਡੀ ਨਾਈ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ
वडा साहिबु वडी नाई कीता जा का होवै ॥
vadā sāhib vadī nā▫ī kīṯā jā kā hovai.
Great is the Master, Great is His Name. Whatever happens is according to His Will.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥
नानक जे को आपौ जाणै अगै गइआ न सोहै ॥२१॥
Nānak je ko āpou jāṇai agai ga▫i▫ā na sohai. ||21||
O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. ||21||

ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ
पाताला पाताल लख आगासा आगास ॥
Pāṯālā pāṯāl lakẖ āgāsā āgās.
There are nether worlds beneath nether worlds, and hundreds of thousands of heavenly worlds above.

ਓੜਕ ਓੜਕ ਭਾਲਿ ਥਕੇ ਵੇਦ ਕਹਨਿ ਇਕ ਵਾਤ
ओड़क ओड़क भालि थके वेद कहनि इक वात ॥
Oṛak oṛak bẖāl thake veḏ kahan ik vāṯ.
The Vedas say that you can search and search for them all, until you grow weary.

ਸਹਸ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਕਹਨਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਅਸੁਲੂ ਇਕੁ ਧਾਤੁ
सहस अठारह कहनि कतेबा असुलू इकु धातु ॥
Sahas aṯẖārah kahan kaṯebā asulū ik ḏẖāṯ.
The scriptures say that there are 18,000 worlds, but in reality, there is only One Universe.

ਲੇਖਾ ਹੋਇ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਲੇਖੈ ਹੋਇ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ
लेखा होइ त लिखीऐ लेखै होइ विणासु ॥
Lekẖā ho▫e ṯa likī▫ai lekẖai ho▫e viṇās.
If you try to write an account of this, you will surely finish yourself before you finish writing it.

ਨਾਨਕ ਵਡਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪੁ ॥੨੨॥
नानक वडा आखीऐ आपे जाणै आपु ॥२२॥
Nānak vadā ākẖī▫ai āpe jāṇai āp. ||22||
O Nanak, call Him Great! He Himself knows Himself. ||22||

ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਏਤੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਪਾਈਆ
सालाही सालाहि एती सुरति न पाईआ ॥
Sālāhī sālāhi eṯī suraṯ na pā▫ī▫ā.
The praisers praise the Lord, but they do not obtain intuitive understanding -

ਨਦੀਆ ਅਤੈ ਵਾਹ ਪਵਹਿ ਸਮੁੰਦਿ ਜਾਣੀਅਹਿ
नदीआ अतै वाह पवहि समुंदि न जाणीअहि ॥
Naḏī▫ā aṯai vāh pavahi samunḏ na jāṇī▫ahi.
the streams and rivers flowing into the ocean do not know its vastness.

ਸਮੁੰਦ ਸਾਹ ਸੁਲਤਾਨ ਗਿਰਹਾ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਾਲੁ ਧਨੁ
समुंद साह सुलतान गिरहा सेती मालु धनु ॥
Samunḏ sāh sulṯān girhā seṯī māl ḏẖan.
Even kings and emperors, with mountains of property and oceans of wealth -

ਕੀੜੀ ਤੁਲਿ ਹੋਵਨੀ ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਨਹੁ ਵੀਸਰਹਿ ॥੨੩॥
कीड़ी तुलि न होवनी जे तिसु मनहु न वीसरहि ॥२३॥
Kīṛī ṯul na hovnī je ṯis manhu na vīsrahi. ||23||
these are not even equal to an ant, who does not forget God. ||23||

ਅੰਤੁ ਸਿਫਤੀ ਕਹਣਿ ਅੰਤੁ
अंतु न सिफती कहणि न अंतु ॥
Anṯ na sifṯī kahaṇ na anṯ.
Endless are His Praises, endless are those who speak them.

ਅੰਤੁ ਕਰਣੈ ਦੇਣਿ ਅੰਤੁ
अंतु न करणै देणि न अंतु ॥
Anṯ na karṇai ḏeṇ na anṯ.
Endless are His Actions, endless are His Gifts.

ਅੰਤੁ ਵੇਖਣਿ ਸੁਣਣਿ ਅੰਤੁ
अंतु न वेखणि सुणणि न अंतु ॥
Anṯ na vekẖaṇ suṇaṇ na anṯ.
Endless is His Vision, endless is His Hearing.

ਅੰਤੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਕਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਮੰਤੁ
अंतु न जापै किआ मनि मंतु ॥
Anṯ na jāpai ki▫ā man manṯ.
His limits cannot be perceived. What is the Mystery of His Mind?

ਅੰਤੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਕੀਤਾ ਆਕਾਰੁ
अंतु न जापै कीता आकारु ॥
Anṯ na jāpai kīṯā ākār.
The limits of the created universe cannot be perceived.

ਅੰਤੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ
अंतु न जापै पारावारु ॥
Anṯ na jāpai pārāvār.
Its limits here and beyond cannot be perceived.

ਅੰਤ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਬਿਲਲਾਹਿ
अंत कारणि केते बिललाहि ॥
Anṯ kāraṇ keṯe billāhi.
Many struggle to know His limits,

ਤਾ ਕੇ ਅੰਤ ਪਾਏ ਜਾਹਿ
ता के अंत न पाए जाहि ॥
Ŧā ke anṯ na pā▫e jāhi.
but His limits cannot be found.

ਏਹੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ
एहु अंतु न जाणै कोइ ॥
Ėhu anṯ na jāṇai ko▫e.
No one can know these limits.

ਬਹੁਤਾ ਕਹੀਐ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਹੋਇ
बहुता कहीऐ बहुता होइ ॥
Bahuṯā kahī▫ai bahuṯā ho▫e.
The more you say about them, the more there still remains to be said.

ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ
वडा साहिबु ऊचा थाउ ॥
vadā sāhib ūcẖā thā▫o.
Great is the Master, High is His Heavenly Home.

ਊਚੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਊਚਾ ਨਾਉ
ऊचे उपरि ऊचा नाउ ॥
Ūcẖe upar ūcẖā nā▫o.
Highest of the High, above all is His Name.

ਏਵਡੁ ਊਚਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਕੋਇ
एवडु ऊचा होवै कोइ ॥
Ėvad ūcẖā hovai ko▫e.
Only one as Great and as High as God

ਤਿਸੁ ਊਚੇ ਕਉ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਇ
तिसु ऊचे कउ जाणै सोइ ॥
Ŧis ūcẖe ka▫o jāṇai so▫e.
can know His Lofty and Exalted State.

ਜੇਵਡੁ ਆਪਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪਿ ਆਪਿ
जेवडु आपि जाणै आपि आपि ॥
Jevad āp jāṇai āp āp.
Only He Himself is that Great. He Himself knows Himself.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਕਰਮੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥੨੪॥
नानक नदरी करमी दाति ॥२४॥
Nānak naḏrī karmī ḏāṯ. ||24||
O Nanak, by His Glance of Grace, He bestows His Blessings. ||24||

ਬਹੁਤਾ ਕਰਮੁ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾ ਜਾਇ
बहुता करमु लिखिआ ना जाइ ॥
Bahuṯā karam likẖi▫ā nā jā▫e.
His Blessings are so abundant that there can be no written account of them.

ਵਡਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਤਮਾਇ
वडा दाता तिलु न तमाइ ॥
vadā ḏāṯā ṯil na ṯamā▫e.
The Great Giver does not hold back anything.

ਕੇਤੇ ਮੰਗਹਿ ਜੋਧ ਅਪਾਰ
केते मंगहि जोध अपार ॥
Keṯe mangahi joḏẖ apār.
There are so many great, heroic warriors begging at the Door of the Infinite Lord.

ਕੇਤਿਆ ਗਣਤ ਨਹੀ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ
केतिआ गणत नही वीचारु ॥
Keṯi▫ā gaṇaṯ nahī vīcẖār.
So many contemplate and dwell upon Him, that they cannot be counted.

ਕੇਤੇ ਖਪਿ ਤੁਟਹਿ ਵੇਕਾਰ
केते खपि तुटहि वेकार ॥
Keṯe kẖap ṯutahi vekār.
So many waste away to death engaged in corruption.

ਕੇਤੇ ਲੈ ਲੈ ਮੁਕਰੁ ਪਾਹਿ
केते लै लै मुकरु पाहि ॥
Keṯe lai lai mukar pāhi.
So many take and take again, and then deny receiving.

ਕੇਤੇ ਮੂਰਖ ਖਾਹੀ ਖਾਹਿ
केते मूरख खाही खाहि ॥
Keṯe mūrakẖ kẖāhī kẖāhi.
So many foolish consumers keep on consuming.

ਕੇਤਿਆ ਦੂਖ ਭੂਖ ਸਦ ਮਾਰ
केतिआ दूख भूख सद मार ॥
Keṯi▫ā ḏūkẖ bẖūkẖ saḏ mār.
So many endure distress, deprivation and constant abuse.

ਏਹਿ ਭਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਾਰ
एहि भि दाति तेरी दातार ॥
Ėhi bẖė ḏāṯ ṯerī ḏāṯār.
Even these are Your Gifts, O Great Giver!

ਬੰਦਿ ਖਲਾਸੀ ਭਾਣੈ ਹੋਇ
बंदि खलासी भाणै होइ ॥
Banḏ kẖalāsī bẖāṇai ho▫e.
Liberation from bondage comes only by Your Will.

ਹੋਰੁ ਆਖਿ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਇ
होरु आखि न सकै कोइ ॥
Hor ākẖ na sakai ko▫e.
No one else has any say in this.

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਖਾਇਕੁ ਆਖਣਿ ਪਾਇ
जे को खाइकु आखणि पाइ ॥
Je ko kẖā▫ik ākẖaṇ pā▫e.
If some fool should presume to say that he does,

ਓਹੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਜੇਤੀਆ ਮੁਹਿ ਖਾਇ
ओहु जाणै जेतीआ मुहि खाइ ॥
Oh jāṇai jeṯī▫ā muhi kẖā▫e.
he shall learn, and feel the effects of his folly.

ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਇ
आपे जाणै आपे देइ ॥
Āpe jāṇai āpe ḏe▫e.
He Himself knows, He Himself gives.

ਆਖਹਿ ਸਿ ਭਿ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ
आखहि सि भि केई केइ ॥
Ākẖahi sė bẖė ke▫ī ke▫e.
Few, very few are those who acknowledge this.

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਬਖਸੇ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਾਲਾਹ
जिस नो बखसे सिफति सालाह ॥
Jis no bakẖse sifaṯ sālāh.
One who is blessed to sing the Praises of the Lord,

ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ॥੨੫॥
नानक पातिसाही पातिसाहु ॥२५॥
Nānak pāṯisāhī pāṯisāhu. ||25||
O Nanak, is the king of kings. ||25||

ਅਮੁਲ ਗੁਣ ਅਮੁਲ ਵਾਪਾਰ
अमुल गुण अमुल वापार ॥
Amul guṇ amul vāpār.
Priceless are His Virtues, Priceless are His Dealings.

ਅਮੁਲ ਵਾਪਾਰੀਏ ਅਮੁਲ ਭੰਡਾਰ
अमुल वापारीए अमुल भंडार ॥
Amul vāpārī▫e amul bẖandār.
Priceless are His Dealers, Priceless are His Treasures.

ਅਮੁਲ ਆਵਹਿ ਅਮੁਲ ਲੈ ਜਾਹਿ
अमुल आवहि अमुल लै जाहि ॥
Amul āvahi amul lai jāhi.
Priceless are those who come to Him, Priceless are those who buy from Him.

ਅਮੁਲ ਭਾਇ ਅਮੁਲਾ ਸਮਾਹਿ
अमुल भाइ अमुला समाहि ॥
Amul bẖā▫e amulā samāhi.
Priceless is Love for Him, Priceless is absorption into Him.

ਅਮੁਲੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਮੁਲੁ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ
अमुलु धरमु अमुलु दीबाणु ॥
Amul ḏẖaram amul ḏībāṇ.
Priceless is the Divine Law of Dharma, Priceless is the Divine Court of Justice.

ਅਮੁਲੁ ਤੁਲੁ ਅਮੁਲੁ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ
अमुलु तुलु अमुलु परवाणु ॥
Amul ṯul amul parvāṇ.
Priceless are the scales, priceless are the weights.

ਅਮੁਲੁ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਅਮੁਲੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ
अमुलु बखसीस अमुलु नीसाणु ॥
Amul bakẖsīs amul nīsāṇ.
Priceless are His Blessings, Priceless is His Banner and Insignia.

ਅਮੁਲੁ ਕਰਮੁ ਅਮੁਲੁ ਫੁਰਮਾਣੁ
अमुलु करमु अमुलु फुरमाणु ॥
Amul karam amul furmāṇ.
Priceless is His Mercy, Priceless is His Royal Command.

ਅਮੁਲੋ ਅਮੁਲੁ ਆਖਿਆ ਜਾਇ
अमुलो अमुलु आखिआ न जाइ ॥
Amulo amul ākẖi▫ā na jā▫e.
Priceless, O Priceless beyond expression!

ਆਖਿ ਆਖਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ
आखि आखि रहे लिव लाइ ॥
Ākẖ ākẖ rahe liv lā▫e.
Speak of Him continually, and remain absorbed in His Love.

ਆਖਹਿ ਵੇਦ ਪਾਠ ਪੁਰਾਣ
आखहि वेद पाठ पुराण ॥
Ākẖahi veḏ pāṯẖ purāṇ.
The Vedas and the Puraanas speak.

ਆਖਹਿ ਪੜੇ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ
आखहि पड़े करहि वखिआण ॥
Ākẖahi paṛe karahi vakẖi▫āṇ.
The scholars speak and lecture.

ਆਖਹਿ ਬਰਮੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਇੰਦ
आखहि बरमे आखहि इंद ॥
Ākẖahi barme ākẖahi inḏ.
Brahma speaks, Indra speaks.


Apr 29, 2005
Dear Benjamin or any one .
Please understand once for all scientist will continue to explore more and more which has nothing to do with Guru Nanak Dev Ji 'sunderstanding that no one can speak about the God. No one can create or suppose about the God . God is absolutely formless .
Just appreciate and praise HIM with every breath, to thanks HIM to give you this birth to do some thing right for your beings and others.
Stop waisting to your time to understand the one you are sitting in his creations . Just like a thousands river can not speak about the ocean and get absorbed in the ocean and looses their identity.
Why worry about what any one did in pat hundered of years instead of worry about what you can do today any thing good for the society and underprivileged brothers.
Stop organizing religions with huge temple or Mosk,Temples around among fool of the whole world yet creating hatred among the other who do not g follow your way of life or approach to GOD.
One do not need any one except oneself to pray God from ant place on their created earth .
Let us discourage these big Priests who has collected multimillion dollars of revenue for the name of religion by well organized religion of One God . Let us ask these big organizations to give away and open more educations schools and infrastructures for these people to livea decent life than paying for them.
No high priest will like it because they want to be looked after for the shadow of rellegion .
Stop debating about silly things what Dravin said or any one ,the facts is no one can speak about the GOD say GURU NANA DEV JI.
Vedas the ancient documents before even Jesus Christ or Eve and Adam was brought out but could not find any sign of form less God. .. India is mother of civilizations with demented history even thousands year before birth of Christianity.
India has a golden era and highest level of university and municipality well organized society..No one has ever spoken or seen the form less GOD.
Let us realize the situations today where all the mess is created by man especially by the leader who think themselves a proprietor of their faith yet hate any other human being who do not belongs to their group.
Most of the poor family are brain washed with religions beliefs and created hatred in the for others belief protect their authority and beliefs..
When every one preaches that God is one then why their teaching are different , every thing is taught to stay in your p own group to be different than others.
One faith which believes that we all come from one light their is no one so Superior than others or bad.. Says Guru Nanak Dev Ji.
We are all equals. That is what SIKHISM is all about. One Creator..
Do not waist you time to criticize the past make a present n more understanding and full of love if you can.Stop pinpointing , What ever any one's Prophets did a it was according to their time existed . They were right and let us do what have to do in our time now Love each other not act like savages.
There no other prophet is going to come now . Remember "what you sow .So shall you reap"


1947-2014 (Archived)
Jun 17, 2004
jaspi ji

Your message is very proactive and the idea of giving up on criticizing the past in order to have the energy and insight to make a better future is very inspiring to me. :up:
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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

This Shabd is composed by Guru Nanak ji in Asa Rag and is recorded on page 360 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The complete shabd is as follows.

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