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Can We Ever See Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

Harry Haller

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Of course. Don't you think same? Don't you want to live close to Gurus like mardana ji, baba buda ji, bhai kanhayiya ji had ?

not particularly, I don't know how much you are familiar with Sikhism, but none of the names you mentioned were Gurus. It is easy for people to be confused, perhaps you should read up a bit before continuing this debate.

How many logins do you have anyway?
should I add this to scepticfreethinker and hari puttar?
 

notanotherloginplease

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not particularly, I don't know how much you are familiar with Sikhism, but none of the names you mentioned were Gurus. It is easy for people to be confused, perhaps you should read up a bit before continuing this debate.

How many logins do you have anyway?
should I add this to scepticfreethinker and hari puttar?

Harry ji. Please read my post again. The names i mentioned were not gurus but people which have chance to live along with gurus / in company of gurus.
 

Harry Haller

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Harry ji. Please read my post again. The names i mentioned were not gurus but people which have chance to live along with gurus / in company of gurus.

my apologies, I did not expect someone so articulate to have forgotten basic grammar.

My answer still stands, the Gurus were true far sighted souls, complete in every way, flawless, such men will not be seen again, and trying to dress up a ferret in a lions costume does not work for me.

It is also important that in Sikhism you must understand it is the Creator that we serve, the Gurus were not 'Jesus Son of God' type figures. They are not to be worshiped or personalised, they were bringers of a message, and it is the message that is important not the personality, to be honest, given the constraints of the time, the lack of travel facilities, a 10 min darshan compared to a lifetime of studying the SGGS has no comparison.
 

notanotherloginplease

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Yes...these "Gurus" began appearing right under the REAL GURUS nose...so to speak...
in their anger they ran away..disobeyed the REAL GURU..kicked the REAL GURU..got him martyred...shot at him..got him beheaded..waged WARS on HIM...by the time of Baba bakalla there were 23 GURUS installed...and things have "improved" by now...TODAY we have GURUS everywhere..jettingt he world, riding horses, riding Camrys and BMWs..yachts..roaming the Seven Seas...BEAS..SIRSA..BHENNI..BANGKOK..you name it...they have a GURU...take your pick...in fact its a common saying..theres a GURU under every ROCK in Punjab and the world...theres even ONE "DEAD" GURU whose body is in a FREEZER for past 9 MONTHS...But his followers keep insisting he is not dead but in SAMADHEE...but the High Court Judge put a spanner in the works by asking a very awkward question...He asked..IF the GURU is alive and in samadhee..why is he sitting in a FREEZER..which is normally used in the MORGUE !!...just visit the nearest Hospital MORGUE..who knows a samadhee GURU may just be happy enough to see you and reveal himself...wow that would be LUCKY !!!

Thank you Jarnail ji for detailed explanation.
There could be many fake gurus but question here is possibility of any single or multiple true gurus ? Can they be also there (except Guru Granth Sahibji )?? Shall we keep our mind open toward this possibility or not ??


2. Second question..How and in what way were the people in 1469-1708 luckier than us ?? They were forced to TRAVEL miles to have "darshan" of the GURU...we have the OPTION of having the GURU under observation 24/7..anywhere...even on the MOON !!!..The PANJ traveled all the way to Anandpur sahib in 1699....MYSELF stepped NEXT DOOR to receiove the EXACT SAME THING they received.Khandey batte Dee pahul !!! Who is LUCKIER ?? ME or Bhai Sahib Singh ? Bhai Dya Singh..Bhai Dharam Singh / Bhai Himmat Singh who came from ORRISSA to PUNJAB !!..must have taken him MONTHS of ardous travel....it took me FIVE STEPS !!! ( I live near a Gurdwara)..IMHO..its all about PERCEPTION....

I still think they are luckier. They can ask questions straight away. Any doubt can be cleared bu guru instantly in language which they can understand.
Our situation - we go to gurudwara-we seek answers from gurbani (no doubt answers are there)but in the end what we read is then interpreted by our mind. This leaves us with a fair chance of being misleaded again by our mind.

If we think we are perfect and we can perfectly understand Gurbani, then its a different story.
But if we are not perfect we cannot understand gurbani perfectly with our mind who is always playing tricks.
For eg. Give a master level chemistry book to 2nd class kid and leave the kid thinking he can understand that book with whatever knowledge he has.
 

Abneet

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Getting darshan of Guru Nanak can happen depending how fully one follows GGS teachings in life But I don't see why that should be the goal of life moreover having darshan by Akaal Purakh should be the goal. Also we do have the GGS as the full teachings of the Gurus and we read,learn, and adapt it everyday as Guru Gobind Singh Ji said you can find me in the hymns of GGS. Some Gursikhs have had amazing experiences but keep it to themselves and move on in their spiritual journey. Nevertheless, follow the GGS and live truthfully.

There is no difference between GGS and Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Here is the real answer you seek...GUR and GURU...One is the SHABAD..and the other is the Messenger...( which was in human form 10 Gurus and is now in BOOK FORM SGGS ). The WORD SHABAD is the Creation..The Shabad is the APOCALYPSE..the Shabad Begins..the Shabad Concludes...The SHABAD is the GURU of SIKHS.....not the "MESSENGER"....just like we open our postbox and take care of the LETTERS...we dont hanker after the POSTMAN !!!

Its that "postman" effect that has led millions down the Garden path..looking for happiness and satisfaction at the feet of countless THUGGHS with huge deras and ashrams...sucking honest money like vacuum cleaners...and offering NOTHING in return..Beas, Sirsa, Bheni, Pehova, etc etc etc etc...and Babas in white cholas concealing their huge bellies full of fat and sugar and mahapurshs (When the NANAKS called ONLY AKAL PURKH "pursh" (PURKH is same as PURSH)..and not only plain pursh but adding MAHA to it !!...all self proclaiemd Masters and Messengers...pretenders tot eh THRONE of the One and ONLY ONE SHABAD GURU - Akla Purkh Himself. Dont be misled.
 

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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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This is the reason why Pretenders read and popularise KACHEE BANI..or spread the word that Each word said by so called mahapursh is also BANI..
 

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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Despite the clear and simple language instruction in above post that the GURU is in the GURBANI and PRESENT IN PERSON ( PARTAKH GURU) is present to explain it all...we still insist we want a human Guru ?? Whatever for ??

1. GURU NANAK JI SAHIB was present physically in front of MILLION strong crowd of holy HINDUS at Hardwaar Kumbh Mela....how many "understood" HIM and CHANGED ?? On the other hand some CHANGED within a few hours..Sajjan Thuggh the SERIAL KILLER...kauda raksh the Highway Robber...and many more ...it DEPENDS on the PERSON...Sajjan Thuggh changed..the millions at Kumbh Mela DID NOT CHANGE !!!

2. many Muslims "saw" the GURU...Akbar saw...Sain Mian Mir saw..Bhikhan Shah saw..Pir Buddhu Shah SAW..... and some CHANGED...others didnt......another Million surrounding the Anandpur sahib Fort and at Chamkaur and in Sirhind....also "saw"..BUT did not change an iota....Sri CHAND not only saw the Guru..he was in the ARMS of the Guru for many years..Dattu, Chandu..Dassu, PRITHIYAH...Ram rai..Wadbahg ...etc etc etc..ALL SAW and in fact many LIVED for GENERATIONS in the Company of the GURUS..and didnt change an iota...

Do we still need more proof....WE NEED to ADMIT we have to CHANGE..then ONLY can the GURU Change us !!!...whether the Shabad is in book form written in ink on paper..or in human form flesh and blood....its US who DECIDE !!! WE need to decide we want the PAHUL..we decide we want to read and understand the GURU... ( Having the good fortune to be born in a multi generation Gursikh-Amrtidharee family ...I learnt the full SGGS early on and at age 5 I took part in my first ever public Akhand Paath...and studied the SGGS with meanings and vichaar....my grand-dad, my maternal grand dad, my dad, my mum..all Gyanis ....we did the Nitnem as a family with vaja nd tabla and all with gusto daily from as young a s I can remember..dad was a PANJ...BUT I personally decided to Go before the PUNJ only at age 55 !!...1st Sept 2014 was my 10th Anniversary !!....no one least of all my dad ever tried to "push" me gently or otherwise..he was WISE !!! Many times visiting sants and babas tried to push my dad..but he didnt budge...(my dad passed on in 1982..and I became Amrtidharee in 2005..only when i fully realized its importance )....The GURU is always there..always ready with open arms..BUT we have to approach HIM...and the SGGS is just as much as approachable as the human form..and just as easy to "REJECT" as the Human Guru who was "told off rudely" by Sri Chand..who was reported to Jehangir by Prithiyah ...who was shot at by wadbhaag....the CHOICE is OURS. Approach the SGGS with an open heart..and SATGUR MERA NIT NAVAHN shines....He is Brand NEW every time you open ...Each and EVERY question is answered..in PLAIN LANGUAGE !!! ( When we call our children..we say loudly..Karen..Come here...its plain simple English..loud enough...BUT not every "karen" comes running ...some Karens come late..some never ..and some will TALK BACK in anger if you dare remind them you called !!! Is it the "language..or is it the loudness of our call ?? neither..ITS OUR EGO....and the rest are excuses...OH...IF only it was Guru nanak Ji in person..one look at Him and I would be a devout SIKH....what a load of BS.( apology)..but I do hear a lot of BS daily from a lot of guys...Lots of people in 1469-1708 had that opportunity too..??? Its NOT the FORM but the MESSAGE that matters. PERIOD.
 

Abneet

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Despite the clear and simple language instruction in above post that the GURU is in the GURBANI and PRESENT IN PERSON ( PARTAKH GURU) is present to explain it all...we still insist we want a human Guru ?? Whatever for ??

1. GURU NANAK JI SAHIB was present physically in front of MILLION strong crowd of holy HINDUS at Hardwaar Kumbh Mela....how many "understood" HIM and CHANGED ?? On the other hand some CHANGED within a few hours..Sajjan Thuggh the SERIAL KILLER...kauda raksh the Highway Robber...and many more ...it DEPENDS on the PERSON...Sajjan Thuggh changed..the millions at Kumbh Mela DID NOT CHANGE !!!

2. many Muslims "saw" the GURU...Akbar saw...Sain Mian Mir saw..Bhikhan Shah saw..Pir Buddhu Shah SAW..... and some CHANGED...others didnt......another Million surrounding the Anandpur sahib Fort and at Chamkaur and in Sirhind....also "saw"..BUT did not change an iota....Sri CHAND not only saw the Guru..he was in the ARMS of the Guru for many years..Dattu, Chandu..Dassu, PRITHIYAH...Ram rai..Wadbahg ...etc etc etc..ALL SAW and in fact many LIVED for GENERATIONS in the Company of the GURUS..and didnt change an iota...

Do we still need more proof....WE NEED to ADMIT we have to CHANGE..then ONLY can the GURU Change us !!!...whether the Shabad is in book form written in ink on paper..or in human form flesh and blood....its US who DECIDE !!! WE need to decide we want the PAHUL..we decide we want to read and understand the GURU... ( Having the good fortune to be born in a multi generation Gursikh-Amrtidharee family ...I learnt the full Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji early on and at age 5 I took part in my first ever public Akhand Paath...and studied the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with meanings and vichaar....my grand-dad, my maternal grand dad, my dad, my mum..all Gyanis ....we did the Nitnem as a family with vaja nd tabla and all with gusto daily from as young a s I can remember..dad was a PANJ...BUT I personally decided to Go before the PUNJ only at age 55 !!...1st Sept 2014 was my 10th Anniversary !!....no one least of all my dad ever tried to "push" me gently or otherwise..he was WISE !!! Many times visiting sants and babas tried to push my dad..but he didnt budge...(my dad passed on in 1982..and I became Amrtidharee in 2005..only when i fully realized its importance )....The GURU is always there..always ready with open arms..BUT we have to approach HIM...and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just as much as approachable as the human form..and just as easy to "REJECT" as the Human Guru who was "told off rudely" by Sri Chand..who was reported to Jehangir by Prithiyah ...who was shot at by wadbhaag....the CHOICE is OURS. Approach the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with an open heart..and SATGUR MERA NIT NAVAHN shines....He is Brand NEW every time you open ...Each and EVERY question is answered..in PLAIN LANGUAGE !!! ( When we call our children..we say loudly..Karen..Come here...its plain simple English..loud enough...BUT not every "karen" comes running ...some Karens come late..some never ..and some will TALK BACK in anger if you dare remind them you called !!! Is it the "language..or is it the loudness of our call ?? neither..ITS OUR EGO....and the rest are excuses...OH...IF only it was Guru nanak Ji in person..one look at Him and I would be a devout SIKH....what a load of BS.( apology)..but I do hear a lot of BS daily from a lot of guys...Lots of people in 1469-1708 had that opportunity too..??? Its NOT the FORM but the MESSAGE that matters. PERIOD.

Exactly. We follow Guru's Bani as we were instructed too. A lot Sikhs today want a "physical guru" but plainly can't see the GGS is no difference from the life of all the Gurus and the teachings during their time. This is why people are going forward to physical gurus that they can see, talk to, and touch. They don't see GGS as embodiment of the Gurus. They just see a ordinary holy book with writings of holy people. They don't see nothing else special. In the end, our Gurus look over all the Sikhs in this world no doubt about it. Guru Gobind Singh Ji looks over the Khalsa no doubt about it. They left their legacy on earth and their life in writings in the GGS and its our choice whether to follow the teachings or not.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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There are two EXTREMES...one is the DERAWADEE types..(Nandsariahs, esp and their branches rarewllahs, iqbal kualan wallahs, pehova vallahs, neeldhareewallahs etc etc etc..myriad branches !!!)..who INSIST the Pages are AANGS (Limbs)..which can be BROKEN if a page is folded..Warm blankets in winter and lining see through cloth in summer...food and drink placed before..etc and Saskaar when old !! The SGGS is not a BOOK but a LIVING breathing person who needs airconditioned rooms, soft dunlopillows and mattresses, golden thrones and golden palanghs, etc etc etc.. It needs transport in special airplanes etc etc..

The second extreme are those who say SGGs is just an ordinary BOOK...nothing more nothing less. So it can be stored on a shelf..kept under the stairs..transported in the car boot or in a container etc etc..

BOTH are WRONG.

The RIGHT path is MIDDLEWAY.... the SGGS has to be RESPECTED more than a book..way way MORE..there is a Protocol, a Maryada, which is MANDATORY. When Parkash the SGGs is the REAL GURU seated on his Throne and due respect is mandatory. Same respect in sukhaasan..parkash, ardass, etc etc. The SGGS cannot be kept in cupboards and under the stairs and on shelves.. Its a TREASURE beyond comparison...and thats the way it should be treated..PIO DADDEh da khol dittah kahazanah...BUT..SGGs doenst feel cold..nor heat..nor hungry nor angry etc.
 

Ambarsaria

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notanotherloginplease ji thanks for your post. I will give my understanding below.
...We can see, read and interpret their teachings in Japji Sahib or other banis,
What about the physical form?
Can we see them again, is there any possibility of re-incarnation?...
There are two pints above.

1. Seeing a physical form to represent a respected and endeared teacherlike our Guru ji is a valid thirst for those who love their message. We are all different and relate to things differently. I asked a dear person about their interest in various sants or physical persons of reasonable message about Sikhism. Not your run of the mill exploitative babas. The answer was very intriguing to me for sure and I had no rebuttal. The statement was as follows,
Some people have a need for a touchy-feely personality to hear the wisdom or message from!
Question becomes that we tell such people to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by themselves and understand Guru ji's message and so connect to them. Here on spn 99.99+% of people refuse to share their own understanding of shabads in any significant quantity. But as soon as the mention is made of questions like yours, people are told to find it for themselves. If we are carrying the spirit of Guru ji even a small iota, would it be acceptable to Guru Nanak ji looking down upon us through their teachings. I believe there is lot of writing about nothing many a times which is not the style of our Guru ji specially when one also claims Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to be eternal wisdom shared by our Guru ji.

It is like pulling teeth to encourage people to respond to one's understanding of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when effort is made. Whereas same people have no shortage of energy to contribute post after post about superfluous subjects like "eating meat", "hindu-sikhh marriage", etc.

2. Would we see our Guru ji as a physical representation in the form of re-incarnation, etc.? Guru ji and many other contributors in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji like Baba Farid ji and others clearly guide us away from such concepts. Such a beautiful poetry and deep assertions so politely put forward,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bani-sheikh-farid/38562-salok-sheikh-farid-ji-65-75-a.html
ਮਹਲਾ
Mėhlā 5.
Guru Arjan Dev ji
ਫਰੀਦਾ ਖਾਲਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਲਕ ਵਸੈ ਰਬ ਮਾਹਿ ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਾਂ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹਿ ੭੫॥
Farīḏā kẖālak kẖalak mėh kẖalak vasai rab māhi. Manḏā kis no ākẖī▫ai jāʼn ṯis bin ko▫ī nāhi. ||75||
Farid, the creator is in creation, creation resides in the creator. Don’t call anyone bad, there is no one besides you.
Another small snippet,
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bani-sheikh-farid/38647-salok-sheikh-farid-ji-95-112-a.html
ਫਰੀਦਾ ਹਉ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੰਖੀਆ ਜੰਗਲਿ ਜਿੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਵਾਸੁ ਕਕਰੁ ਚੁਗਨਿ ਥਲਿ ਵਸਨਿ ਰਬ ਛੋਡਨਿ ਪਾਸੁ ੧੦੧॥
Farīḏā ha▫o balihārī ṯinĥ pankẖī▫ā jangal jinĥā vās. Kakar cẖugan thal vasan rab na cẖẖodan pās. ||101||
Farid, how awesome those birds that reside in the jungle. Picking up pebbles, staying on the ground and never leave the side of the creator.
I have done my understand of Baba farid ji's writing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and it is such a loving creation in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Baba Farid ji.

As you drench yourself such parts in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you will soon see yourself wanting a physical presence but a visual may come about that your mind lovingly creates. At least that is how sometimes experience.

So for me bottom line is that you be so blessed to attempt to enjoy Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji not just follow and have the visualizations of such poetic teachings of much eternal truths.

If you have a specific shabad or other part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji you want to get more understanding of let us work together and learn together. Don't be shy and no one has perfect or universal understanding no matter what is claimed or not. Poetry cannot be translated.

Hope it is of some use in your quest.

Sat Sri Akal. :mundahug:

PS: You may also some of the following from Baba Farid ji among other,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bani-sheikh-farid/38304-sheikh-farid-ji-bani-no-2-a.html
 
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arshdeep88

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Why do you want to meet Guru Nanak?
If you want to just meet him for the sake of meeting , shaking hand ,get a photograph clicked and put it on Fb than the answer is NO.And to be honest i doubt if Guru Nanak would have ever met such persons for such reasons.
But If you want to meet him with an intent to learn than you can meet him everytime 24 hours a day anywhere anytime through Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you will meet him with an open arms and love sharing his knowledge his wisdom.
:peacesign:
 

notanotherloginplease

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Why do you want to meet Guru Nanak?
If you want to just meet him for the sake of meeting , shaking hand ,get a photograph clicked and put it on Fb than the answer is NO.And to be honest i doubt if Guru Nanak would have ever met such persons for such reasons.
But If you want to meet him with an intent to learn than you can meet him everytime 24 hours a day anywhere anytime through Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you will meet him with an open arms and love sharing his knowledge his wisdom.
:peacesign:

Thanks for your explanation Arshdeep ji.
Why do you want to meet Guru Nanak?
Well , shaking hand would be a great privilege. I dont use Fb. lol..

The only reason for me to meet guru Nanak Dev ji was my knowledge. I thought whatever I will understand from gurbani will be at my mind's level. whatever I am going to interpret is again at my mind's level.
There is fair chance of misinterpretation for a noob like me.

I dont wanted to think myself as best of the bests and consider my self top Giani whose translation/interpretation is uncomaparable and always right, who can never be misleaded by minds games.

So I thought why not see the writer and inquire about his viewpoint.

Its just like what I used to do when I was in school. Asking teachers directly if I do not understand something in my book instead of asking my classmates who often lead me to wrong answers.

Does that make me clear Arshdeep ji?
 

arshdeep88

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Thanks for your explanation Arshdeep ji.
You are welcome Notanotherloginplease Ji(Between how many times you have logged in? haha justkidding)

Why do you want to meet Guru Nanak?
Well , shaking hand would be a great privilege. I dont use Fb. lol..

IMO Yes it could have been great privilege for you as you mentioned but just think with how many handshakes with people around you are able to grasp their thinking,their knowledge,their way of living and their wisdom?
If by shaking hands only we could have acquired the knowledge of the other
person than things would have been very easy,no?

Dont worry just about the fb there are many people around having images,pictures,paintings of the Gurus in their home/workplaces etc.

The only reason for me to meet guru Nanak Dev ji was my knowledge. I thought whatever I will understand from gurbani will be at my mind's level. whatever I am going to interpret is again at my mind's level.
There is fair chance of misinterpretation for a noob like me.

I dont wanted to think myself as best of the bests and consider my self top Giani whose translation/interpretation is uncomaparable and always right, who can never be misleaded by minds games.

So I thought why not see the writer and inquire about his viewpoint.

Its just like what I used to do when I was in school. Asking teachers directly if I do not understand something in my book instead of asking my classmates who often lead me to wrong answers.

Does that make me clear Arshdeep ji?

Noanotherlogin Ji
Thing is sometimes we don't like to think and then act accordingly ,we just want someone to spoon-feed the answers to us so that we can escape from letting our minds think.We don't want to introspect ourselves but are continuously Looking for someone who can save us from thinking and that is how other so called fake Gurus,Babas take advantage of ours because they know if we would start thinking and walk accordingly as Guru granth sahib Says we will become wiser and their business will fall.

According to me Gurus are not the one controlling your mind they are just
showing you the path which you have to walk yourself,none can walk in your place and for it the Message of the Gurus is clear only if you wish to see ,read,understand and grasp it.You can see Guru ji in the Guru Granth sahib not only giving a clue but sometimes asking questions too from you,asking you to stop and think and introspect.
Giani and to be the best should not be the objective as you said but first of all objective should be to be the student.
You yourself said you wish to meet Guru Nanak for knowledge to which according to me you just have to open Guru Granth Sahib ji if knowledge is all you want.You can discuss and share your knowledge you gained among the classmates. Here we all are classmates and learners and am the back bencher here who regularly misses his class and sometimes is caught sleeping.:rofl!!:
Hope it does clears my opinion Noanotherlogin ji
I am though surprised that you have missed and not talked about the role of the student.
 

notanotherloginplease

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You are welcome Notanotherloginplease Ji(Between how many times you have logged in? haha justkidding)

Thanks Arshdeep Ji, But it does not make sense what you have replied below.

IMO Yes it could have been great privilege for you as you mentioned but just think with how many handshakes with people around you are able to grasp their thinking,their knowledge,their way of living and their wisdom?
If by shaking hands only we could have acquired the knowledge of the other
person than things would have been very easy,no?

I have said that on a funny note, not seriously. So all good here :):grinningsingh:

Dont worry just about the fb there are many people around having images,pictures,paintings of the Gurus in their home/workplaces etc.

true.That's none of my business. so again we are good here :)


Noanotherlogin Ji
Thing is sometimes we don't like to think and then act accordingly, we just want someone to spoon-feed the answers to us so that we can escape from letting our minds think.

So you agree that Its our mind which thinks, which means mind thinks and interprets gurbani too.. so it will only think what it is capable of.
for eg. if you give a iPad to a child it will play games on it and same Ipad is used by finacial analysts to create complex algorithms. Its all about maturity of mind, and mind as always loves to play games with us, misleading us, and misinterpreting gurbani. I hope there isnt any arguing about it.


We don't want to introspect ourselves but are continuously Looking for someone who can save us from thinking and that is how other so called fake Gurus,Babas take advantage of ours because they know if we would start thinking and walk accordingly as Guru granth sahib Says we will become wiser and their business will fall.

I cannot comment on what fake babas think .They were always there,you must have known to the story about Guru Teg Bahadur Ji, hw many fake gurus appeared after Shri Guru Harkrishan ji. Its same situation now.

The thing is can we really"Think and walk according to Guru Granth sahib"????
for eg. Can you simply go to biology lab and start dissecting frogs by reading from books, there were so many books when we started at school.Why do we needed a TEACHER at that time instead of understanding all those books with power of our mind? those books were too simpler i guess? You could call those books a teacher itself ?


According to me Gurus are not the one controlling your mind they are just
showing you the path which you have to walk yourself,none can walk in your place and for it the Message of the Gurus is clear only if you wish to see ,read,understand and grasp it.

I agreed 100% here

You can see Guru ji in the Guru Granth sahib not only giving a clue but sometimes asking questions too from you,asking you to stop and think and introspect.

True, But is our mind actually able to interpret their questions correctly, You see , there are so many different explanations by so many philosophers and Giani's. Most of them are totally different. So how can we be sure that our explanation is right????? for eg : please see this thread which has different explanations of same quote "ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥": http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/42541-what-is-anhaad-naad-15.html#post199673

Giani and to be the best should not be the objective as you said but first of all objective should be to be the student.

Agreed. I was saying the same thing.

You yourself said you wish to meet Guru Nanak for knowledge to which according to me you just have to open Guru Granth Sahib ji if knowledge is all you want.You can discuss and share your knowledge you gained among the classmates. Here we all are classmates and learners and am the back bencher here who regularly misses his class and sometimes is caught sleeping.:rofl!!:
Hope it does clears my opinion Noanotherlogin ji
I am though surprised that you have missed and not talked about the role of the student.

I already said about classmates, you cannot trust their understanding of a subject, some might have better understanding some might have worse. Why do our schools employ so many teachers instead of leaving group of students with books to study on their own????


Thanks for discussing this topic Arshdeep Ji.
 

Ishna

Writer
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May 9, 2006
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I already said about classmates, you cannot trust their understanding of a subject, some might have better understanding some might have worse. Why do our schools employ so many teachers instead of leaving group of students with books to study on their own????


Thanks for discussing this topic Arshdeep Ji.

Dear NALP Ji

Your analogy about school teachers, students and books to study makes sense if we think of the Guru as just Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (the student's text book) and nothing else.

However, the Guru is more subtle than this. If you erase every Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji bir from the face of the earth, the Guru will still exist, because the Guru is the Shabad, which is the narrative of life, the universe and everything emanating from the Ik Onkar (imho).

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a distillation of wisdom which can open your awareness of your place in the universe and the things that really matter in your human life.

Also, you may not be aware, red font colour is usually used by mods/admins. Best to choose a different colour next time :peacesignkaur: Many thanks

Edit: Panna 635 has an ashtapadee which really drives home for me the fact that Shabad is the Guru http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=635&L=6&id=27668
 

notanotherloginplease

Writer
SPNer
Apr 13, 2006
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Dear NALP Ji

Your analogy about school teachers, students and books to study makes sense if we think of the Guru as just Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (the student's text book) and nothing else.

However, the Guru is more subtle than this. If you erase every Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji bir from the face of the earth, the Guru will still exist, because the Guru is the Shabad, which is the narrative of life, the universe and everything emanating from the Ik Onkar (imho).

I agree with you Guru is Shabad, not the literal Shabad(literal word) but Shabad- the Power.
Thanks a lot for that. So thats the essence- Shabad is guru and shabd guru will show us the path.
ਘਰ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਘਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਸਹਜਿ ਰਤੇ ਮਨ ਭਾਈ ॥


So what is the way to meet that Shabad Guru?
Thanks Ishna Ji.



Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a distillation of wisdom which can open your awareness of your place in the universe and the things that really matter in your human life.

Also, you may not be aware, red font colour is usually used by mods/admins. Best to choose a different colour next time :peacesignkaur: Many thanks

Apologies about this, didn't realized that.

Edit: Panna 635 has an ashtapadee which really drives home for me the fact that Shabad is the Guru http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=635&L=6&id=27668

.....
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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I am sorry, I just don't get any of this, Sikhism sounds like just another religion that you have to spend your life learning and studying, which to me, it just is not.

Again, maybe I am in a minority, but I am in no doubt as to what makes a good Sikh, it does not require decades of study, in my opinion anyway, what it does require is to follow the line of truth, and its that simple.

Guru Nanakji was a magnificent personality, there is no doubt about that, but would meeting him make you a better Sikh? is there anything he could say to you that would suddenly enlighten you? Are we harking back to old 1960's Sikh films with rousing music and flickering candles, complete with miracles and swaying congregations?

The information in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not hard to fathom, its so simple a child could understand it, yes, the deeper you dig, the more you know, but the basic, foundation message is not hard, maybe master that first before digging for the pearls, maybe learn to drive before planning a car trip across the world.

live by the truth, be good to others, see a bigger picture than yourself, accept your role as a Sikh and a slave to the universe, take up the mantle of EkOnkar and be a representative of such on earth, expect nothing in return, don't chase after temporary happiness, find the warm glow of contentment and permanent happiness, no matter where you are or what situation you are in.

If we only are able to fulfill this if the above is given by a live human being, rather than a living book, I think that makes us very foolish indeed.
 
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