- May 9, 2006
The Nirgun (formless) - the TRUTH that has been, is present now, and will always forever be can be experienced within your very being...deep within you is that shining light that is waiting to show you first hand the TRUTH of Waheguru that Gurbani talks of...Q: How to follow truth?
Please give your input - if possible a short straight answer first followed by any explanations. This helps to avoid confusion, Thanks. Apologies if I am asking for too much.:interestedsingh:
This question is along the same lines as 'how to learn' or 'how to study', its hard work, frankly, it is such hard work, sometimes even I feel the need to go and do something else a bit easier, maybe light a few lamps, or stare at a picture, grab a load of beads and have a bit of a meditation session, the mumbling I like too, because that is quite easy!Q: How to follow truth?
Thank you all for your posts. Gyani Ji's post was nice.This question is along the same lines as 'how to learn' or 'how to study', its hard work, frankly, it is such hard work, sometimes even I feel the need to go and do something else a bit easier, maybe light a few lamps, or stare at a picture, grab a load of beads and have a bit of a meditation session, the mumbling I like too, because that is quite easy!
I could grow my hair, wear a turban, start going to Gurdwara, maybe go on a pilgrimage, say to Hemkunt, and spend my days doing all this stuff, but quite frankly, in my view, there is only way to live like a Sikh, and it is bloody hard, but the rewards are too great to ignore.
I must go now, I have to check the poorenmashi dates on my calender
A better question would be
'how to live each and every minute as the Creator would, given the facets of Creator we already know from Mool Mantra'
so thats the easy bit, the hard bit is actually doing it, or trying to do it, or giving it your best and trying to improve it, again, frankly, until one has mastered this, I see little point in digging for further jewels in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, however, what I do know from experience is that living like this enables consonance with surroundings, which in turn leads to better perception of the environment around you.
Why else would you follow the truth if not to integrate it into your living model? I mean what sort of person follows the truth sitting halfway up a tree? How can you live truthfully if you are not doing anything?I don't agree that we could replace the question about following truth with way of living. rephrasing will lose the actual purpose of question. (how to live each and every minute as the Creator would, given the facets of Creator we already know from Mool Mantra)
let us set some base points, because we all interpret this great way of life differently, I am one of those that believe in nothing after death, not blackness, I just don't know what happens and am happy with that. So, in the worst scenario, all I have now is the time on this earth, now I can either go find a tree, an eighth of weed, and spend my time engaging in self debate about the meaning of life, I can deny myself of all pleasures and really get to town on the whole meaning of life thing, or, I can accept that the meaning of life is quite simple, to take on as many facets of Creator that I can, and be in complete consonance with my surroundings. I can help people, advise people, I can be a representative of Creator on Earth, making a difference is what makes Sikhism so different, there are no boogies, no carrots, we have been given the role of deputies, and our job is give assistance and help, not for gain, but simply because such a lifestyle is true living.so thats the easy bit, the hard bit is actually doing it, or trying to do it, or giving it your best and trying to improve it, again, frankly, until one has mastered this, I see little point in digging for further jewels in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, however, what I do know from experience is that living like this enables consonance with surroundings, which in turn leads to better perception of the environment around you.
So does your "this" and above in blue refer to "Way of living"-
I think that will just cover this part: Kirat Karo,Wand chako-- But what about Naam Japo? wasnt that important?
yes, it is confusing, which is why I limit myself to just the one word, truth, it encapsulates pretty much everything I need to know as a Sikh, everything written in the SGGS is true, read it, follow it, live it, your a Sikh, it all seems very simple to me.As we have discussed earlier: NAAM=Shabad =truth . and the question is how to follow truth, how to practice naam, how to follow shabad? does that make sense? confusing sorry!
Personally for me, I do see the SGGS as a 'living guru', words weather heard or read have the same meanings. Its really how you choose to live your life, teachings in a book as you have said is no different than a physical person saying those things out loud. You could listen to someone tell you or read it written down either way how you comprehend it and what it means to you is your own interpretation. How you choose to follow is on you.Sorry again, another question just struck: Then Is it OK to see Guru Granth Sahib ji as living Guru?(Considering it a book of teachings)
- i will post it as a new forum question .looking forward for your reply.Thanks
Hey yearning soul, listen to the voice within and do what pleases thee, for the God of Nanak, satnam, will find you, regardless of form or substance.
Better still, watch LIFE OF PI for realisation of a form guru.
House of Nanak teaches the culmination of form to formlessness. Moreover, Nanak says, its not the sikh that finds the perfect guru but the perfect guru that finds the perfect sikh. Go-on and exhaust your search for a form master for the real Guru is the "word" [shabd guru surat dhun chela].
There is in nature, eliteness, hierarchy and much more, but to understand purity [Khalsa] one must recognise impurity by reason or existence. So go ahead, quench your thirst and make your destiny.
To reach the house of Nanak and be a Sikh is not of choice and chance but a reward of good deeds. That is not to say, other religions and faiths are any less attractive and less meaningful; alas no ! But by the grace of God - is the house of Nanak found.
Consider yourself fortunate if you'd be given a "word" let alone many - from the vast ocean of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Says Nanak, "....Nanak nam ja'haj ha jo chara so uttra par" [those on board Nanak's ship will cross the sea of life]
.....the context within which the word Sikh is to be construed is "student", en route transformation from mere human to spiritual being, thus humankinds true nature.you mean like a carrot?
Waheguru!!.....the context within which the word Sikh is to be construed is "student", en route transformation from mere human to spiritual being, thus humankinds true nature.
Materialistic incentives don't appeal to the yearning soul, but alone, the calling from Akal Purakh and that too, at the grace of satguru.
I do not wish to transform myself to a spiritual being, am I doing something wrong? Are you suggesting I am not at my stage of true nature? I am, after all , a Sikh......the context within which the word Sikh is to be construed is "student", en route transformation from mere human to spiritual being, thus humankinds true nature.
what about spiritual incentives?Materialistic incentives don't appeal to the yearning soul, but alone, the calling from Akal Purakh and that too, at the grace of satguru.
H - sorry for the late response, had back to back meetings !I do not wish to transform myself to a spiritual being, am I doing something wrong? Are you suggesting I am not at my stage of true nature? I am, after all , a Sikh.
what about spiritual incentives?
Does an incentive cease to be an incentive if it is spiritual?
thats ok, I have been busy tooH - sorry for the late response, had back to back meetings !
I think the presumption is that anyone surfing this forum has at least a passing interest in Sikhism, unless they are a bot.The presumption is that anyone surfing Sikh Philosophy Network on a regular basis is prima facie, a Sikh.
amongst other things, yes.By definition then a Sikh is, collectively and independently a being who believes in SGGSJ
I think that applies to all of us, but not all of us speak so definitively that our own opinions must be fact, negating the need for correction.Whatever I say is taken and referenced by the authoritative house of Nanak, that is, SGGSJ. I dare not error the spirit nor the letter, but can as a prudent man misinterpret, in which case I must be corrected.
I didYou said, " I do not wish to transform myself to a spiritual being"
ok this is all getting a bit Monty Python, I am tempted to shout out that you are 'making this up as you go along' but if you have not seen the film, that probably will not make much sense. Ok, the answer you are looking for is 'No', however, your question is slightly flawed, a butterfly would not have much opinion on changing from a caterpillar to a butterfly, as it is already a butterfly, does a caterpillar want to change from a caterpillar to a butterfly is probably what you meant, but having said all that, I would like to think a persons desire to live life according to SGGS, and the metamorphosis of a caterpillar are slightly different.Consider the butterfly; does it want to change from a caterpillar to a butterfly?
How many caterpillars did you survey for this?Probably not
Ahhh I see, so I will become spiritual without any choice or desire on my part?but will without choice change [evolution] because of it's potentiality
you see, the key word is potential....and another key word is choice, crevice is not a key word, but I thought I would mention it anyway.Similarly, Nanak's philosophy is to that end, human potential to become spiritual. Insofar choice and preferriantil, Nanak advocates Liberty of body, mind and soul.
I don't"Granted" you don't want to transform
uhmmmm Noddy and Big ears don't exist?but guess what ?
oh that, phew, I dont know what I would do if Noddy and Big ears were fictional. Uhm well enjoy yourself on that spiritual plane, perhaps you could enlighten me as to what it feels like?Gonna miss you on that spiritual plane. Conversely, there will always be an excuse to come and visit mortal men. So in way - thank you ! Please don't take it the wrong way ha !
I am not sure where this came from...
Yes, I know that human nature has the pontential to change, but I fully believe it is a question of choice, or do you believe in fate?As I said above H, human nature has the pontential to change and it's never a question of choice,
Oh, you believe in fate huh, or you dress Hukam up as fate?
Guess it beats chocolate biscuits and coke hunched over several dead computers, enjoy,H - can we do incentive another time, I've got to do my path n have roti !
end result is happiness? am I happy? I have no interest in being happy, just content.Indeed they're different, but they are nevertheless, analogously representational to the case at hand. That is to say, the "potential" [darwinian evolution - life a process of interactions between matter and energy described by the laws of physics and chemistry], actual [caterpillar] and eternal [butterfly]. Exactly what Baba Ji Nanak is saying [938 SGGSJ], albeit metaphorically; hey human how about utilising to the max your potential. But of course, if the end result is happiness and one is happy - why dig ! And, I agree with you 100% from a practical application perspective in the service of humankind. I say ride-on.
what is your definition of spirituality?You bet, and of course, by virtue of being at SPN, the connotation is and, the mark of spirituality. For who otherwise when there is plenty out there, even for a moment, be glued to this here wave ? Only the "Point Break" surfer. H - you're spiritual without you knowing ! The butterfly knows nothing of the lift, wind speed, air resistance, vacuum and indeed physics in general. That does not prevent it from flying. It was born to fly. Emerged from the depths of water with the ability to do something it could never understand.
Sikhs make their own destiny, yes, I agree with that,Determinism with a wee bit of choice as seen through the lens of Moral Philosophy. Of course, you've got chance and probability looming all the time, but as for fate, like you I'm a Sikh and believe, um ? Tell tale will illustrate better: once upon a time, two Kings came into dispute over a plot of land. Both decided to battle it out. Both of them paid obeisance to this one Baba Ji. And, visits him separately.
King 1: Baba Ji, I'll be engaged in battle, help win the battle.
Baba Ji: Worry not, for you will surely win.
King 1 returns to his kingdom and celebrates with wine women and the rest amongst his warrior army.
King 2: Baba Ji, I'll be engaged in battle, help win the battle.
Baba Ji: Sorry, for you will lose.
King 2 returns to his kingdom, gathers his soldiers and said, "we'll lose the battle is what the oracle predicted, but because we're warriors we'll give'em a bloody good fight. So pack your bags and meet me for a drill at 5am".
Battle ensues, King 2 wins. So much for destiny hey H - Sikhs make their own destiny where I come from.
Relative states of being [happy content], albeit with variance in degree not subject-matter.end result is happiness? am I happy? I have no interest in being happy, just content.
Immorality of the soul !what is your definition of spirituality?
I would concede that is happiness, but REAL happiness?Real happiness is the state of pleasant mood. No worries; no fears; no ill thoughts. It arises from meeting a near and dear one or person of your liking; a work having been completed better than expected; g ood results or unexpected positive results etc.