Being Naamdhari Is Sikhi

[gurc]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

WGJK WGJF,

I hope and pray that there is no oppression of the Sikhs in the Punjabi.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[drkhalsa]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Dear Sahil Makkar ji


thanks for your post

Plz be p=atients when waiting for rep=ly and dont p=ost the same p=ost several times it just make the top=ic difficult to be read by others


Now a question from Nimana and low intellect myself

/

SO ALL STORY IS THAT, AMRIT COMES AFTER OPENING OF TENTH GATE, AND THAT TENTH GATE CAN BE OPENED ONLY BY PERFECT MASTER AS THE LINES EXPLAIN ABOVE

Your story seems very interseting and i reaaly wish it to be true but one thing still i could not understand

who is perfect guru/satguru you mentioned in post

If p=ossible p=lz write more about this main character of story




Thanks


Jatinder Singh

 

[Sikh Namdhari]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Harjas Kaurji

I can understand your passion for Sikhi. It is so refreshing to see such a vigour. However, my sister, your view that by being Namdhari one is 'nullifying the authority' of Aadh Sri Guru Granth Sahibji is wrong.

Being Namdhari means you accept the authority of all of our Gurus as per the instructions - nay: Commands, as written within the Gurujis' Granth Sahibs. IT MEANS YOU READ THE HOLY SCRIPTURES AND OBEY THE COMMANDS TO RECEIVE NAAM FROM A GURU WHO THEN GUIDES YOU, MAKES YOU REALISE YOUR MISTAKES, JUST AS GURU ARJUN DEVJI DID WITH BHAI GURDASSJI AND GURU GOBIND SINGHJI DID IN THE SAKHI OF BHAI JOGA.

IT MEANS YOU HONOUR THE GURUJIS' GRANTH SAHIB(S) IN THE SAME FASHION THAT THE SIKHS DURING AND BEFORE THE TIMES OF GURU GOBIND SINGHJI DID.

NOT BY IDOLATROUS WAYS OF WORSHIP.

 

[sahilmakkar1983]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

DrKhalsa Pajji Thanks,

For ur reply...

Perfect guru can be anyone, that cant be described, but thing to understand is only from Gurubani..
U should search on ur own..
Gurubani says, about perfect masters, it can be any character.. U tell me .. If GuruNanak dev ji comes in front of u, then will u be able to recognise him, If RAM comes in front of u.. can u recognise.. DO WE HAVE THAT EYE(DIB DRISHTI/TENTH GATE).. to recognise RAM/GURUNANAK dev ji...
I hope u would say big NO here.. But Gurubani tells us about the EYE that we need to see him.
When guru comes to ur life... HE shows u atonce the GOD within u..
BUT TODAY we have lakhs of GURUs(that we call dehdharis)...
But u tell me any scriptures of our great SIKHI that says no need to go to any DEHDHARI(LIVING GURU).... Read any scripture(vedas.. quranas.. OK OK leave it, read only gurubani.. Var.. Bhai gurudas ji).. It will definately encourage u..to go for a GURU..

I think .. U will not find even a single page in SGGS .. WITHOUT A "GURU" WORD on it. EACH n every page is describing the grace of GURU..LIVING GURU.

So i m putting some more easy to understand quotes from gurubani .. that elaborates more .. WHAT IS PERFECT MASTER..

Wait I will put just after this reply...

GuruFateh

Dear Sahil Makkar ji


thanks for your post

Plz be p=atients when waiting for rep=ly and dont p=ost the same p=ost several times it just make the top=ic difficult to be read by others


Now a question from Nimana and low intellect myself

/


Your story seems very interseting and i reaaly wish it to be true but one thing still i could not understand

who is perfect guru/satguru you mentioned in post

If p=ossible p=lz write more about this main character of story




Thanks


Jatinder Singh

 

[drkhalsa]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Dear Sahil makker


Thanks again for replying

It is interesting to read ur posts but as already mentioned I am not blessed with sharp intellect as others so will try to go slowly

Gurubani says, about perfect masters, it can be any character.. U tell me .. If GuruNanak dev ji comes in front of u, then will u be able to recognise him, If RAM comes in front of u.. can u recognise.. DO WE HAVE THAT EYE(DIB DRISHTI/TENTH GATE).. to recognise RAM/GURUNANAK dev ji...

well you said that it can be any character does this means that essentially this character will be in human form no other form possible?


Guru Nanak Dev ji /Shri Ram ji in front of me. if you mean the physical body ?

as many learned people told me that all physical dimension of the universe that we see is Akal Purakh himself( HAR KA ROOP HA) the why is need to see him in specific form?

You also said that without divya drishti / tenth gate/third eye one cant recoznise Guru and also you said previously that Tenth gate is opened by Guru himself
so here it is kind of dead lock as tenth gate is opened by guru but again guru cant be recoznised whithout it openeing so kind of catch 22 situation

plz explain

But u tell me any scriptures of our great SIKHI that says no need to go to any DEHDHARI(LIVING GURU).... Read any scripture(vedas.. quranas.. OK OK leave it, read only gurubani.. Var.. Bhai gurudas ji).. It will definately encourage u..to go for a GURU..

Who is the Karta ( Doer ) in case of guru and any murakh like me respectively ?

Are two different doer is operating here?

Without Dib Drishti /tenth gate dont you think ( whicjh itself is opened by Guru)
Dont you thinkthis makes guru is always in better position to approach dvotee ( based on you r suggestions)

I think .. U will not find even a single page in SGGS .. WITHOUT A "GURU" WORD on it. EACH n every page is describing the grace of GURU..LIVING GURU.

Does Living just means Human form

Is akal purakh somewhat limited here when granting grace which made lay down resticted rules that garce has to flow through living human being



And at last would you be kind enough to tell me who was Guru in you case I mean which character I am curious and excited to know !


Thanks for your post
waiting for further guidance from you



Jatinder Singh

 

[GURVINDER]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

THANKS FOR GIVING VALUABLE INFORMATION

 

[sahilmakkar1983]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

GuruFateh Drkhalsa paaji...

I will try to be as short as possible, describing one quote for each n every question..
If u want to go into any specific thing dipper, then dig me for that, I will try to elaborate it with some more quotes from SGGS.

ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ ॥
पाताला पाताल लख आगासा आगास ॥
paataalaa paataal lakh aagaasaa aagaas.
There are nether worlds beneath nether worlds, and hundreds of thousands of heavenly worlds above.

ਓੜਕ ਓੜਕ ਭਾਲਿ ਥਕੇ ਵੇਦ ਕਹਨਿ ਇਕ ਵਾਤ ॥
ओड़क ओड़क भालि थके वेद कहनि इक वात ॥
orhak orhak bhaal thakay vayd kahan ik vaat.
The Vedas say that you can search and search for them all, until you grow weary.

ਸਹਸ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਕਹਨਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਅਸੁਲੂ ਇਕੁ ਧਾਤੁ ॥
सहस अठारह कहनि कतेबा असुलू इकु धातु ॥
sehas athaarah kahan kataybaa asuloo ik Dhaat.
The scriptures say that there are 18,000 worlds, but in reality, there is only One Universe.

ਲੇਖਾ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਲੇਖੈ ਹੋਇ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ ॥
लेखा होइ त लिखीऐ लेखै होइ विणासु ॥
laykhaa ho-ay ta likee-ai laykhai ho-ay vinaas.
If you try to write an account of this, you will surely finish yourself before you finish writing it.

ਨਾਨਕ ਵਡਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪੁ ॥੨੨॥
नानक वडा आखीऐ आपे जाणै आपु ॥२२॥
naanak vadaa aakhee-ai aapay jaanai aap. ||22||
O Nanak, call Him Great! He Himself knows Himself. ||22||


These lines are not related to ur question, but just read the last lines, Guru Nanak dev ji is clearly saying that.. Greatest is man, who knows himself..
DO U KNOW UR SELF.. WHO U ARE, FROM WHERE U CAME, AND WHERE U WILL GO

Now lets start with ur questions...

well you said that it can be any character does this means that essentially this character will be in human form no other form possible?

Guru Nanak Dev ji /Shri Ram ji in front of me. if you mean the physical body ?

10 Gurus came????? Why???? To show us the actual form of GOD. Nirankar roop that can be seen.
JAB JAB HOT ARISHT APARA, TAB TAB DEH DHARE AVTARA.(SGGS)
Whenever there was fall of character/thinking of people.. at that time GOD comes in a body(PHYSICAL BODY).
He can come with any motive.. but GYAN never changes. (AAD SUCH, JUGAAD SUCH)

as many learned people told me that all physical dimension of the universe that we see is Akal Purakh himself( HAR KA ROOP HA) the why is need to see him in specific form?

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਕੈਸੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
बिनु गुर दीखिआ कैसे गिआनु ॥
bin gur deekhi-aa kaisay gi-aan.
Without the Guru's Teachings, how can anyone obtain spiritual wisdom?

ਬਿਨੁ ਪੇਖੇ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੋ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥
बिनु पेखे कहु कैसो धिआनु ॥
bin paykhay kaho kaiso Dhi-aan.

Without seeing - tell me: how can anyone visualize in meditation?

If u say meditation, then lines are clearly saying that , Without seeing , u cant visualize in meditation,and no meditaion is possible,
and our Gurus has instructed us for DHYAN(meditaion).. So our devotion starts when we start seeing GOD.. (Ask questions if u have.. this thing can go very beyond in discussion)

You also said that without divya drishti / tenth gate/third eye one cant recoznise Guru and also you said previously that Tenth gate is opened by Guru himself
so here it is kind of dead lock as tenth gate is opened by guru but again guru cant be recoznised whithout it openeing so kind of catch 22 situation

PAGE no 922---------------------------------------------------
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿਆ ਜਾ ਵੇਖਾ ਹਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥
गुर परसादी बुझिआ जा वेखा हरि इकु है हरि बिनु अवरु न कोई ॥
gur parsaadee bujhi-aa jaa vaykhaa har ik hai har bin avar na ko-ee.
By Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one except the Lord.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਹਿ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਅੰਧ ਸੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਦਿਬ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੩੬॥
कहै नानकु एहि नेत्र अंध से सतिगुरि मिलिऐ दिब द्रिसटि होई ॥३६॥
kahai naanak ayhi naytar anDh say satgur mili-ai dib darisat ho-ee. ||36||
Says Nanak, these eyes were blind; but meeting the True Guru, they became all-seeing. ||36||


YES, IT means that GURU is who . who can show u the GOD, and when he will open ur tenth door, u will atonce see the GOD(the form i will describe later) in urself.. and If u see GOD inside u, then it is indication of opening of Tenth Gate/Divine-eye(vision)( ਦਿਬ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟ).

If some Guru says that , I can show u then go n test him(yes its better to test a guru before initiation, koi PAAP nahi he, koi vi cheez lo dekh parakh ke layo)..
SOI GUR PURA AKHIYE, JO KATHANI AAN MILAYE(SGGS)
Only that guru is perfect, that is commitive to his words about showing u
If he SHOWS u then Accept him as GURU, other wise start ur search again..
Again start search for perfect guru.


plz explain

Who is the Karta ( Doer ) in case of guru and any murakh like me respectively ?
Are two different doer is operating here?

GUR AAP KARTA GUR PALLANHAR(SGGS)
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥
गुरमुखि नादं गुरमुखि वेदं गुरमुखि रहिआ समाई ॥
gurmukh naadaN gurmukh vaydaN gurmukh rahi-aa samaa-ee.
The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.

ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥
गुरु ईसरु गुरु गोरखु बरमा गुरु पारबती माई ॥
gur eesar gur gorakh barmaa gur paarbatee maa-ee.
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.

NO there are not two doers..........guru as discussed in another forum is himself GOD,
GURU ISAR GURU GORAKH BRAHM, GUR PARBATI MAI
I think this quote is clearly describing u, who is doer...

Without Dib Drishti /tenth gate dont you think ( whicjh itself is opened by Guru)
Dont you thinkthis makes guru is always in better position to approach dvotee ( based on you r suggestions)

YES absolutely true, I m putting some lines from gurubani to support ur view..

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲਿਓਨੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਸੀ ॥
करि किरपा सतिगुरु मेलिओनु मुखि गुरमुखि नामु धिआइसी ॥
kar kirpaa satgur mayli-on mukh gurmukh naam Dhi-aa-isee.
By His Grace, He leads us to meet the True Guru; then, as Gurmukh, we chant the Lord's Name, and meditate on it.

ਸੋ ਕਰੇ ਜਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਘਰੀ ਵਸਾਇਸੀ ॥
सो करे जि सतिगुर भावसी गुरु पूरा घरी वसाइसी ॥
so karay je satgur bhaavsee gur pooraa gharee vasaa-isee.
We do that which pleases the True Guru; the Perfect Guru comes to dwell in the home of the heart.

ਜਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਸਭੁ ਗਵਾਇਸੀ ॥
जिन अंदरि नामु निधानु है तिन का भउ सभु गवाइसी ॥
jin andar naam niDhaan hai tin kaa bha-o sabh gavaa-isee.
Those who have the treasure of the Naam deep within - all their fears are removed.

ਜਿਨ ਰਖਣ ਕਉ ਹਰਿ ਆਪਿ ਹੋਇ ਹੋਰ ਕੇਤੀ ਝਖਿ ਝਖਿ ਜਾਇਸੀ ॥
जिन रखण कउ हरि आपि होइ होर केती झखि झखि जाइसी ॥
jin rakhan ka-o har aap ho-ay hor kaytee jhakh jhakh jaa-isee.
They are protected by the Lord Himself; others struggle and fight against them, but they only come to death.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਤੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਲਤਿ ਪਲਤਿ ਛੋਡਾਇਸੀ ॥੧॥
जन नानक नामु धिआइ तू हरि हलति पलति छोडाइसी ॥१॥
jan naanak naam Dhi-aa-ay too har halat palat chhodaa-isee. ||1||
O servant Nanak, meditate on the Naam; the Lord shall deliver you, here and hereafter. ||1||
Yes it is true, He himself will call u, BUT I WANT TO SAY, JUST LISTEN TO HIS/HER call , whenever he/she(true GURU) calls u.. and this call can come from anyone, any devotee too, from some media too, thats call, he will not come to call u at ur home always(although this is also possible)...
but thirsty should search for well, and if he has desire than he will search that guru too,
RAB NAAL MILNA AASAAN HE, PAR GURU PURA MILNA AASAAN NAHI HE..
eh such he.. gurubani kehndi he..
Please bhayiya kabhi aisa guru awaz de, jo kahe aayo mere bacho, mein tvannu RAB vikha sakda, te jaana jaroor, labhna jarror,
These is aim of life.

Does Living just means Human form

Is akal purakh somewhat limited here when granting grace which made lay down resticted rules that garce has to flow through living human being

YES NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.. what does LIVING means to u...
Does living means to be any non-living things...

And at last would you be kind enough to tell me who was Guru in you case I mean which character I am curious and excited to know !

YES, NICE QUESTION.. IT would be a great moment for me to tell u the name of such a divine personality
but m not here to advertise for my GURU, but to request u, that follow gurubani to reach the true master on ur own, search for a perfect master, whoever shows u GOD is perfect, NOT only mine.

Thanks for your post
waiting for further guidance from you

NO need to say thanks, its all grace of GOD, and m not guiding u, m just exploring some gurubani in front of u,

While writing such a big reply, some mistake may be possible, please forgive me for that

Gurufateh, Raj karega khalsa............

 

[kaur-1]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Harjas Kaurji

I can understand your passion for Sikhi. It is so refreshing to see such a vigour. However, my sister, your view that by being Namdhari one is 'nullifying the authority' of Aadh Sri Guru Granth Sahibji is wrong.

Being Namdhari means you accept the authority of all of our Gurus as per the instructions - nay: Commands, as written within the Gurujis' Granth Sahibs. IT MEANS YOU READ THE HOLY SCRIPTURES AND OBEY THE COMMANDS TO RECEIVE NAAM FROM A GURU WHO THEN GUIDES YOU, MAKES YOU REALISE YOUR MISTAKES, JUST AS GURU ARJUN DEVJI DID WITH BHAI GURDASSJI AND GURU GOBIND SINGHJI DID IN THE SAKHI OF BHAI JOGA.

IT MEANS YOU HONOUR THE GURUJIS' GRANTH SAHIB(S) IN THE SAME FASHION THAT THE SIKHS DURING AND BEFORE THE TIMES OF GURU GOBIND SINGHJI DID.

NOT BY IDOLATROUS WAYS OF WORSHIP.

Dear 'Sikh Namdhari' ji, May I ask why then do you call Guru Granth sahib ji "Aad"?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

It is interesting to see how people start defending their groups as the only gateway to 'salvation' a new 'revelation' that no one else in Sikhi has been bestowed upon except the cults who hv bifurcated themselves from Sikhi in the name of a man/men( mind you we have not got any women as 'Satgurus' yet, may be the sexism from the macho 'satgurus'). Not a sign of Sikhi equality.

First and foremost lets define what Sikhi is:-

Lots of us still refer to Sikhi as a religion, full of dogmas of dos and don'ts based on personalities like Judaism (Messiah in coming), Christianity(Jesus), Islam (Mohammed) and Hinduism (many deities personified as gods and goddesses). We tend to compare sikhi with these religions, each of which claims to have the ONLY WAY to seek IK ONG KAAR. In other words all the above personality based religions are exclusive, enclosed by walls erected with bricksand mortar called dogmas. In order for them to lure the followers, they offer their exclusively concocted snake oil (secret recipe) to the potential recruits as the only ticket to an imaginary place called Heaven-eternal life. And those on the outside are guaranteed to go to an awful place deep in the earth(where all our riches in the form of minerals come from) called Hell-eternal torment. In order for the followers to get the full potential of the snake oil rub, they invented mechanical rituals which do not require any thought process thus making them feel as comfy as birds of a feather. This creates an environment of an exclusive - bigoted- group with its exclusive rituals - Water baptism, Hajj, praying 5 times, circumcision, animal and human sacrifice (Sati) and many more. These enclosed belief systems created their own Do's and Don’ts. As someone said about Christianity, which can also be applied to all dogmatic religions, "It is time for all spiritual beings to stop preaching hell fire and brimstone and other stupid fears, and just teach, "love one another"...nothing else".

Then in the 15th century came Nanak- The Guru. The one that took the veil of fear-based ignorance away. He helped us come out of the darkness of dogmas and examine ourselves in the light of pragmatism - The Sat. He showed us that IK ONGKAAR couldn’t be put behind any walls and become exclusive to any one-belief system. In fact he took the notion of belief system out of the Sikh psyche and gave us the unique way of life called Sikhi Marg based on 3 basic rules of thumbs: Naam Japnah, Kirat karni and Vand kei chaknah.

Sikhi is NOT personality based like the Naamdhari cult would like us to believe but IDEA based.

When this Internet cyber sadh sangat started the following thought came to mind:-

"The first Sikh 'Blog' ever written was by Guru Nanak in the form of MOOL MANTAR. Blogs are intimate thoughts of a person who lives in the realm of NIRBHAU, NIRVAIR. Intimate thoughts make us expose our True (inner) nakedness, sans veils of taboos or dogmas. Guru Nanak did that without feeling ashamed of sharing his intimate thoughts. He showed us how to contemplate on the message whilst detaching ourselves from the messenger."

Naamdharis. Radasoamis, Nirankari, Eckists and other Deras are all personality based rather than IDEA based as Sikhi is, hence they are just some more Snakeoil salesmen who sell their Snakeoil in the name of SIKHI.

SHAME!! SHAME!!

Tejwant

 

[Sikh Namdhari]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

DrKhalsaji, or may I call you Veer Jatinder Singhji?

Jin Masthaki Dhuri Hari likhia, thina Satigur milia Ram Rajei
Agian Andhera cutia, Gur gian ghat balia
Hari ladha Rattan padartho, phir bahurri na chalia
Jan Nanak Naam aradhia, aradhi Hari milia

 

[Sikh Namdhari]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Sisterji Kaur-1

When Sri Satguru Nanak Devji first started to compose Gurbani He kept a small book with Him called 'Pothi'- which literally means -'book'.

Upon passing Gurugaddhi to Bhai Lehnaji He also gave Him the Pothi which contained all of His 'Shabads'. This carried on until the time when Sri Satguru Arjun Devji collected all of that and other Banis and bound them into one. This compilation was then also called 'Pothi' or 'Pothi Sahib'. Granth - which literally means 'Big Volume' was a name which evolved over time. All of the volumes written pre-Singh Sabha times, i.e. pre 1872 AD. have 'Pothi Sahib' written on them. You can see for yourself if you visit the library in Amritsar. There are over 2,000 handwritten copies there.

After Bhai Mani Singhji, at the behest of Mathaji, collected all of Sri Satguru Gobind Singhji's writings, which were scattered all over the Punjab and elsewhere, he then compiled these into a Granth.

Bhai Mani Singhji, Wah! Bhai Mani Singhji, who was later tortured by the Moguls, had his limbs cut at every joint until there was nothing left to cut. Do we even have a fraction of the Sikhi He had? He was a Mahapurash who knew His Satguru, who was qualified to recognise what His Satguru would write or what He would not write, because he had lived his life with the Satguru. (Today we have 'Sikh' scholars who gain a meager degree from a University and claim the Dasam Guru Granth Sahib is not Guruji's composition.)

Forgive me I am digressing.

Since the time of arrival on the scene of the compositions of Dasam Pithaji, both Granth Sahibs were 'Parkashed' side by side in all places of worship. There are some very beautiful contemporary paintings from the times of the Sikh Empire that show this.

So to distinguish between the two Granth Sahibs they were given seperate names:
All of the Gurbani compiled in the first Granth was called: 'Aadh Guru Granth Sahib';
which can be translated as: Volume of the First Gurujis.
All of Sri Guru Gobind Singhji's Gurbani, compiled in the second Granth was called: Dasam Guru Granth Sahib. The name should now be self explanatory.

There is a third Granth called 'Sarab Loh Granth', which had eluded historians for a long time, but which all those who were in the know, knew of it's existance. But only certain Nihang Jathas had copies of it and they have guarded it jealously over the centuries. I do believe it can be made available to the Sangat, but you have to give them very good reasons for wanting it (apparently). I stand to be corrected.

Some time after 1873 and the formation of the 2nd Singh Sabha with the sponsorship of the British Empire, in opposition to the rise of the Namdhari Sikhs, the Singh Sabha leaders decided that only one Granth could be 'Guru'. So the Dasam Guru Granth Sahib was removed from all Dharamsalas and Gurdhwaras and the status of Aadh Guru Granth Sahib was raised to 'Sri Guru Granth Sahibji'.

Namdharis did not and do not agree with this arrangement, which is why we still call both Granth Sahibs by their original names.

 

[drkhalsa]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Dear Naam Dhari Sikh ji

Thanks for the post

When Sri Satguru Nanak Devji first started to compose Gurbani He kept a small book with Him called 'Pothi'- which literally means -'book'.

Upon passing Gurugaddhi to Bhai Lehnaji He also gave Him the Pothi which contained all of His 'Shabads'. This carried on until the time when Sri Satguru Arjun Devji collected all of that and other Banis and bound them into one. This compilation was then also called 'Pothi' or 'Pothi Sahib'. Granth - which literally means 'Big Volume' was a name which evolved over time. All of the volumes written pre-Singh Sabha times, i.e. pre 1872 AD. have 'Pothi Sahib' written on them. You can see for yourself if you visit the library in Amritsar. There are over 2,000 handwritten copies there.

Agree with most of it Can you give address of Library that you are mentioning here with 2000 Handwritten copies .


I personally agrre with Nihangs about writer of Dasam Granth and consider it writings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj

There is a third Granth called 'Sarab Loh Granth', which had eluded historians for a long time, but which all those who were in the know, knew of it's existance. But only certain Nihang Jathas had copies of it and they have guarded it jealously over the centuries. I do believe it can be made available to the Sangat, but you have to give them very good reasons for wanting it (apparently). I stand to be corrected.

Saraloh Granth is now openly vavilable at book shops and can be bought at amritsar and delhi

Some time after 1873 and the formation of the 2nd Singh Sabha with the sponsorship of the British Empire, in opposition to the rise of the Namdhari Sikhs, the Singh Sabha leaders decided that only one Granth could be 'Guru'. So the Dasam Guru Granth Sahib was removed from all Dharamsalas and Gurdhwaras and the status of Aadh Guru Granth Sahib was raised to 'Sri Guru Granth Sahibji'.

this uor version of History and I dont think most peopel agree and will agree and it includes ME as well





Thanks again



Jatinder Singh

 

[badmash]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Same old debates.....if you claim to be a sikh, you are a sikh.
If you can speak and master punjabi, awesommeee!!!!!
If you keep kesh and pagdri, you are one of the few true sikhs.
The rest is all semantics. Lets wake up and smell the coffee, or rather the aroma of our own "sikhi" or "sikhism" vaporization/evaporation.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Same old debates.....if you claim to be a sikh, you are a sikh.
If you can speak and master punjabi, awesommeee!!!!!
If you keep kesh and pagdri, you are one of the few true sikhs.
The rest is all semantics. Lets wake up and smell the coffee, or rather the aroma of our own "sikhi" or "sikhism" vaporization/evaporation.

What ignorance. A Sikh is a disciple of Guruji (DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI). You cannot be a disciple of Guruji if you follow a contradictory lineage of living masters. No matter how much anyone tries to make it so, it remains FALSE and ANTI-GURMAT. It has nothing to do with any individual idea of what is Sikhi, that's the point.

This is no different than Christian missionaries dressed in kurta giving out Panjabi language comic books telling about satguru Jesus Christ and loyal Sikh Sadhu Sundar Singh. It's all LIES. Deliberate lies to manipulate and convert the misinformed. Naamdharies would have so much more respect if they could be honest that they are a breakaway sect away from mainstream Sikhs who have a different lineage of gurus than what is accepted as Sikh. Just be yourselves. Because you are not any part of the Panth.

 

[badmash]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

More energy should be expended on the maintenance of Sikh culture and language than on highlighting the differences amongst us. We no longer have the luxury of the pursuit of purity.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

More energy should be expended on the maintenance of Sikh culture and language than on highlighting the differences amongst us. We no longer have the luxury of the pursuit of purity.

Without purity, you have nothing left to preserve. That isn't Sikh culture anymore. No one will preserve what they do not respect and are not willing to live for and die for.

I don't know what you mean about luxury. The Sikh community in diaspora has a strong and hardcore Gurmat representation.

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

if You Recieve Naam From Someone Who Wears The 5 Shaster During An Amrit Sanchar But Has No Connection With His Creator Outside Of The Gurdwara; Who Will Take No Responsibility For Your Soul After Your Demise, How Can Your Recitation Of That Naam Bring You Salvation?

When you are preparing for amrit chakkna, and the Panj Piare are also preparing, they are no longer any individual person, but act in the authority given to them by Guru Gobind Singh Ji as the 5 Beloveds. And as proof of this authority, Guru Gobind Singh Ji was himself kneeled down and initiated into the Khalsa by the Panj Piare. The 5 Beloveds are no longer an individual, but the very living presence of Guruji. They speak and act as the Guru-Panth. That is why Naam can only be given to you by the Panj Piare. It is Guruji who has full responsibility for your soul and for the Khalsa Panth. After the Panj Piare have been convened they become ordinary Sikhs again.

We all know that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru. We also know that the community of Sikhs who has surrendered completely to the Guru is called the Khalsa. But who is Guru Khalsa Panth Sahib Ji?
The Guru Khalsa Panth Sahib Ji was created by Waheguru and revealed to the world by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. When he bowed before the Khalsa on Vaisakhi day in 1699 at Anandpur Sahib and asked for amrit, he declared the Khalsa Panth as his Guru Sahib and he himself as the Guru's first disciple. "Wah Wah Gobind Singh aape gur chelaa". In his own words Guru Ji bestowed Guruship on the Guru Khalsa Panth by declaring "Khalsa mero Satgur pooraa".
Guru Ji further said that "atma granth wich, sareer panth wich". He was again telling the world that spiritual Guruship is henceforth bestowed in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the physical Guruship is bestowed in the Guru Khalsa Panth Sahib Ji

sikh spirit may 1999

If someone takes amrit from a living guru, master, sant, baba, he is not receiving amrit of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. In fact, this act would make him break from faith with Guruji. Because he is receiving initiation with different gurus than the established ShabadGuru Ji. Naamdharis are their own lineage. They have nothing to do with Sikhs.

 

[badmash]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

You people talk about things most average and common "sikhs" do not deal with nor care about. I for one do not care what Naamdharis do or do not do. I also am not personally that bothered about naam and the soul. I am more interested in preserving the culture or merely even the knowledge and appreciation of that culture which gave birth to Sikhism. Call me non sikh or whatever you wish, my name, my face, the color of my skin and my perspective or what I call myself does not change by any accusation to the contrary.

You are indeed "supersikhs", and yes, yours is a luxury of belief. Sikhism is quickly being absorbed and corrupted thoroughly in its birthplace, although I am sure small pockets in the west and around the world are more 'sikh' than 95% of those in India. Yet one can believe whatever one wishes, as there is no correct factual "thing".

 

[Curious Singh]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

Regarding 'Agya Bhai Akal Ki' , please be informed that this verse has been written by Bhai Prehlad Singh which starts with these lines when converted to Punjabi that " This verse has been written on the orders of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, in this year Samvat 1752 , in Abchal Nagar i.e. Nanded of today which further states that all Sikhs should accept Sri Adi Granth Sahib as their Guru in times to come and in the end, it has been written that I, Prehlad Singh has written this verse"

Now, will you kindly tell us one thing when the "Agya Bhai Akal Ki" Verse has been clearly told to be written when the year was Samvat 1752 i.e. 1695 A.D. , when the Sikhs of today were nowhere on horizon since the Sikhs were made Singhs only on 13 April, 1699 A.D. , then how come Guru Gobind Singh Ji can give future Guru Ship to Sri Adi Granth Sahib Ji.

For counter-confirmation of the same , you may read the granth " Mahaan Kosh " written by a famous Sikh Historian " Bhai Kahan Singh Ji Nabha " .

Regards,

Curious Singh ( London )

 

[Harjas Kaur Khalsa]

Re: Being Naam-dhari is Sikhi

I also am not personally that bothered about naam and the soul.

nwm qqu kil mih punhcrnw ] (254-8, gauVI, mÚ 5)
naam tat kal meh punharchanaa.
-------------------------------
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, only the Naam, the Name of the Lord, shall be of any real use to you.

Yet one can believe whatever one wishes, as there is no correct factual "thing".

So you believe in nothing? Hindutva fanatics are praying for Kalki the destroyer. Muslim fanatics are praying for the coming of the Mahdi. And I have a feeling in the middle, the whole world is going to have a great upheaval of suffering. But you're right. It's really just opinion. To some it matters, and to some it does not. I wouldn't worry too much about preserving a culture. This is an era of mass extinctions.