Bani Pro - Good Pronunciation?

[Ishna]

Hello

Has anyone here listened to the Bani Pro CDs by Rajnarind Kaur? Is the pronunciation accurate? I find it challenging at times to keep up with Dya Singh ji and she is much slower and clearer. I just don't want to fall into bad habits.

Many thanks in advance.

Ishna

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Bani Pro - good pronounciation?

READ AT YOUR OWN PACE. the GURU is for ONE TO ONE DEALING..not dependant on THIRD PARTY....dont fall into that trap....Get a physically viisble GUTKA and READ the words...slowly and surely...

 

[Ishna]

Okay, not the response I was expecting...

Gyani ji

I have my physical gutka but I have no one to teach me the correct pronounciation of the words. Reading transliteration can only convey part of the nuance of spoken pronounciation.

It's like trying to learn how to speak regular Punjabi without actually hearing the words.

I rotate between:

* shallow listening to the kirtan which I can't understand but I realise repeated exposure to the words will help familiarise me to their sounds.
* concerted effort trying to learn how to sing the banis myself which is hard when your only reference to pronounciation is going a million words a minute
* concentrated reading of English translations of nitnem bania and other shabads to actually understand in my own language

I don't believe I'm relying on third parties however I need to start learning somewhere, right?

Due to the confusion over siharis and unkars, etc, I want to make sure Rajnarind Kaur is pronouncing her bania correctly so I don't learn to pronounce it incorrectly.

Ultimately the aim of learning is so I will KNOW how to do it MYSELF, correctly.

Ishna

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ishna Ji..GURBANI is not written or pronounced in siolation..its mostly PUNJABI..a Vibrant living language. Punjabi is like the FOREST..and one will have to enter the Forest..looking at individual trees wont do...Lots of people MISS the FOREST for the trees.
The best example that answers all questions is in Gurbani itself....JION GUNGGEH MATHYEE KHAYEE....a situation in which a DEAF DUMB MUTE has tasted a "sweet meat"...so HOW is he going to tell you how that tasted ?? The ONLY way is for him to pass YOU a "piece" of that mathayee and YOU taste it yourslef and decide. The GURU left us the "piece"..a really huge piece as big as 1429 pages..and we can taste it bit by bit...NO HURRY....!!! Lots of people take the "easy" way out...they skip reading the book..and watch the "MOVIE" instead...yet others are too lazy to even spend two hours at the Movie theater..so they read the REVIEW...yet others just watch the TRAILER.. yet many more just watch the Five second Advertisement...yet others just see the Movie AD in the Daily Newspaper..or the Movie Poster on the Roadside....and are SATISFIED...... THE GURU is much much more than a mere "BOOK"....the "movie" is watching kirtan darbars...etc etc....attending gurdwara...having a CD in the Car audio player..etc etc...ALL are STEPS..BUT NOT the DESTINATION....the JAPJI is in PURE PUNJABI and is 38 STEPS...just to get us all GOING !!! BEGIN CLIMBING....JIOS...the HIGHER YOU GO..the more magnifiecent the VIEW form the TOP GETS...but you have to CLIMB YOURSELF..not look at Flickr Accounts full of PHOTO VIEWS of "others"..a PERSONAL one to one visit to Darbar sahib is so vastly DIFFERENT FROM all the hundreds of thousands of beautiful photos taken by the worlds best accomplished photographers with the most expensive cameras..videos..etc etc....BECAUSE as is said in GURBANI..DITTEH SABHEH THAAVN..nahin tujh jaisah..a EYE WITTNESS ACCOUNT..a FIRST PERSON ACCOUNT has no EQUAL.
Just remember how lucky we are...in 1469...just how much time did anyone have of "knowing" Guur nanak ji in PERSON..or the rest of the Gurus...WE HAVE them by our isde 24/7..365 days of our LIVES....anytime..all the time....those people learnt Gurbani...with utmost LIMITED resources...we are in a much better position....much much better..DONT UNDER ESTIMATE YOURSELF.cheerleadercheerleadercheerleadercheerleadercheerleader

 

[Ishna]

Thank you for your efforts Gyani ji, but I'll be honest and admit I don't understand why my wanting to learn how to sing kirtan myself is an issue?

And I'm not sure how I'm presenting to you that I'm lazy and trying to take the easy way out by learning how to read Gurmukhi and speak the words of the bani out loud and correctly. I would be offended by you comparing my endeavour to trying to watch the trailer of the Sikh movie, but I'm sure you're not trying to be malicious.

The easy way out would be for me to say stuff it, I'll just stick with English!

Oh well.

Ishna

 

[Ishna]

Also, if the issue is me not knowing how to speak Punjabi, trust me, it's not for lack of trying to find a teacher here in my home town.

Since a teacher for Punjabi language is not readily available, I would like to teach myself how to sing my daily nitnem in Punjabi. Mimicry is the best I can do right now.

Ishna

 

[Roop Kaur]

Ah, I know exactly what you are trying to say Ishna ji.

It's just like me ... I tried to learn Farsi a while back but found it extremely difficult in that I wasn't sure whether my pronunciation was right. I didn't want to go make a fool of myself by saying a word wrong here or there when conversing with someone in the language.

Is there some youtube link to Rajnarind Kaur's bani-pro cd? Or some online link which i can sample? I just tried to youtube it and failed to find anything, but haven't properly googled it as i'm just a tad busy for the next few hours. But I'll definitely try and get back to you! I'd like to think my punjabi is quite good, so I should be able to suss out the pronunciation.

Good luck!

Rab rakha

 

[Ishna]

Roop Kaur ji,

Yay, I'm not insane!!

I've had a look around and this site appears to provide the tracks without selling the CD (it would be violation of TOS to post link to commercial site):

http://music.raag.fm/Shabad Gurbani/songs-18373-Bani_Pro_1-Rajnarind_Kaur

Apologies to the mods if this link is inappropriate.

Thank you for any advice you can provide, Roop Kaur ji!

Ishna

 

[Roop Kaur]

Hi again Ishna Ji!

So I just looked at and listened to some of the Japji Sahib ... I must say, her punjabi is quite AWESOME! There are a few things which I might say differently, but 99.999% of it is pretty spot on! Like for example, the line "Ajuni sai bhang" ... she says "Aaajuni sai bhang"
I'd say it more like this - YouTube - Japji Sahib - Sikh Prayer - "Ajooni" (btw, I think this link is also quite easy to follow along with, you may have heard it already)

I think you should go along with her, as she is much slower and easier to understand, but if you're unsure about something, just youtube it - or ask your friendly SPN'ers of course hehe

Nice find btw, I might even use this link ... I find that the youtube japji sahib that I listen to are far too fast sometimes, and some kind of just mumble it - I guess that comes with decades of reading it daily.

P.S - Although I could speak punjabi before i could even speak english, I may be wrong ... so i hope some of our other wiser friends can correct me if i am wrong.

Hope that helps Ishna ji ... I don't make sense sometimes, a hundred million things just go through my head at the same time and I just blurt them out haha

Rab Rakha!
:grinningkudi:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ishna Ji, You wrote:

<<<,,, Thank you for your efforts Gyani ji, but I'll be honest and admit I don't understand why my wanting to learn how to sing kirtan myself is an issue?>>>>>>

How so ? I thought ALL my effort was aimed at getting YOU to learn how to SING, READ, Gurbani by YOURSELF. THAT is the Message of Guru Arjun ji himself...and our SRM alos declares this to be our first DUTY. Obviously I failed to get my message across...or it got lost among the words...

Note: ALL my messages contain references to lots of people...something like the Disclaimer one sees..."This story is fiction. It has NO relation to any one living or dead.All names, places details etc are not meant for anyone - alive or dead." SO If i mention about a Jeet Singh who wtached a movie instead of reading a book..it doesnt mean every person named Jeet Singh is being accused/ or take sit to mean its personal for him......its just a general comment. I just have too many personal encounters which i always mention ...my way of explaining my ideas..

Apologies in advance. Keep in Chardeekalla always.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I have managed to get my hands on the bani pro cds. a good friend just sent them in after reading this post. will listen in a day or so.

 

[Ishna]

Roop Kaur ji

Thank you so much for taking the time you have a listen to Rajnarind Kaur. You've helped put my mind at ease. kudihug

The difference between the RajKaregaKhalsa translation on the youtube you provided, and the Rajnarind Kaur version are quite obvious in Mul Mantar, and is a great example of the discussion at this thread: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34054-correct-pronunciation-of-waheguru.html

Thank you again Roop Kaur ji!!

Ishna

 

[Ishna]

Dear Gyani ji

I think we each have the best intentions but we're misunderstanding each other!

Ishna Ji, You wrote:

<<<,,, Thank you for your efforts Gyani ji, but I'll be honest and admit I don't understand why my wanting to learn how to sing kirtan myself is an issue?>>>>>>

How so ? I thought ALL my effort was aimed at getting YOU to learn how to SING, READ, Gurbani by YOURSELF. THAT is the Message of Guru Arjun ji himself...and our SRM alos declares this to be our first DUTY. Obviously I failed to get my message across...or it got lost among the words...

I want to be able to do all those things myself. I lack the confidence and knowledge to read the words off the paper and be able to pronounce them correctly. Rajnarind Kaur has seen this problem in others and has developed the CDs, speaking at a slower pace with very clear recording so newcomers like me can listen to the way she speaks the words and can repeat them. My problem with the resources I already have is that they are musical, up-beat, super fast and by the time my brain has read the first few words from my Gutka the kirtanees are already at the second pauri!!! teehee

So by having Rajnarind Kaur speaking the words slower and clearly, I can read along in my gutka, repeat the words out loud, and eventually I will have the confidence and aquired enough knoweldge and experience (hopefully!!!) to be able to read and sing by myself.

Like in the classroom when you learn French. The teacher says a word, the class repeats it. It would be difficult if the teacher of French Lesson 1 repeated whole sentences very fast and wanted you to repeat them. You probably can do that in French Lesson 10, but not French Lesson 1. I'm at lesson 1.

Note: ALL my messages contain references to lots of people...something like the Disclaimer one sees..."This story is fiction. It has NO relation to any one living or dead.All names, places details etc are not meant for anyone - alive or dead." SO If i mention about a Jeet Singh who wtached a movie instead of reading a book..it doesnt mean every person named Jeet Singh is being accused/ or take sit to mean its personal for him......its just a general comment. I just have too many personal encounters which i always mention ...my way of explaining my ideas..

Apologies in advance. Keep in Chardeekalla always.

There's my ahankaar, right there! *threatens it with a fly-swat* Over-sensitivity is a great weakness of mine.

Apologies from me also, Gyani ji. I hope we understand each other this time?

Sat Sri Akaal.

Ishna

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ishan Ji..Take your time...and beleive me..it does take "time"...i have been at it for the past 58 years (from age 4+)..and still learning - in real time !! Perfect definition of a SIKH...LEARNER.:blueturban::happysingh: