Correct Pronunciation of Waheguru

onspjo · #1 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 02:48 AM

First of all, Guru Gobind Singh Sahibji de gurpurab di bahut bahut wadhai howe.

Secondly, Please help me on this:
What is the correct pronunciation of the word: Waheguru.

In Gurmukhi, there is sihari(i) to the letter h in the word waheguru. Do we pronounce it as WAAH-E-GURU or WAAH-GURU without the long A sound.

For example: In the word AAD, there is sihari to the letter d, but we don't pronounce it as AAD-E. Similarly, In Sat Shri Akal, There is Sihari to the letter t, and we say it SAT not SAT-E.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/34054-correct-pronunciation-of-waheguru.html

My thinking is that there is a pause and stress to the letter where there is Sihari to the letter and not the E(long a) sound.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Thanks. **

spnadmin · #2 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 04:47 AM

Quote:

My thinking is that there is a pause and stress to the letter where there is Sihari to the letter and not the E(long a) sound.

My understanding is the sihari is pronounced

Quote:

b) Dr. Harkirat Singh jee Gurmukhi linguistics and Gurbani Bhasha scholars from Punjabi university, Dr. Harkirat Singh jee says in his Book "GURBANI DI BHASHA TE VYAKARAN (Punjabi)" ISBN : 81-7380-323-4, "g) The short vowels /u/ and /i/ were generally pronounced in the endings of words in Apabhramsa. Absolutely, the same position is found in the case of Gurbani. So, it is against the grammatical rules of Gurbani to reject the pronunciation of these short vowels (/u/ and /i/) at the endings of the words of Gurbani. Writing always follows the pronunciation, therefore, we should try to read the old writing in tune with the old pronunciation." To look at the complete abstract please go to:
[www.sikhpoint.com] ... p?pageno=1

c) Gurbani words with and without laga matras are different:

aahar sabh karadhaa firai aaharu eik n hoe ||
naanak jith aahare jag oudhhara viralaa boojhai koe ||2||

The example of Gubani tuks with three different types spelling of the base word Aahar(Aahar, Aaharu, Aahare) shows that pronunciation of sihari and Unkar is must in order communicate three different meaning of the words (jobs, the job, by doing the job) to the listeners. Also, as we know in Gurbani words unkar & hora and Sihari and lav/Bihari are used inter-changingly for the same very purpose. If we say we should pronounce hora, bihari and lav then why not unkar and Sihari? . Answer is that sihari and unkar must be pronounced like other lagamatras in order to propagate Guru?s message correctly.

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,2634,2634

Ishna · #3 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 08:39 AM

So... are there any instances where one would NOT pronounce the sihari or unkar?

For example, should I be saying the vowles in brackets (which I don't normally say) or not?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054

Ek Oankar Sat(i) Nam(u) .. Purak(u), etc?

Sorry for the basic question and thanks in advance for any information.

Ishna

findingmyway · #4 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 08:47 AM

Ishna ji,
As per my understanding the general rule is that if the sihari or aunkar come at the end, they are not pronounced but are there for grammatical purposes otherwise they are pronounced.

spnadmin · #5 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 08:49 AM

That is a good question. I always pronounce them. Always thought they were in brackets because they fell into the class of vowels that are dependent vowels, and are diacritical marks that are voiced/written according to rules for combining them with other vowels and consonants. E.G., there is no actual letter for "ey" and the sihari when placed gives that sound.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054

There are 2 classes of vowels

Independent: Ura (ੳ), Aira (ਅ) and Iri (ੲ).

Dependent: These are combined with independent vowels and with consonants and are voiced. I am trying to put a chart up to show them. Sounds they make are in the far right column of the chart.

spnadmin · #6 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 08:55 AM

findingmyway ji

Actually I think this is the issue being raised by Prakash S. Baggu - as to whether to voice them at the end of words or not. I hope he comes online to clarify his point.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054

In Kartar Purakh(u) I do pronounce the (u) as "uh" at the end. Is that incorrect? LOL I am going to have to listen to rajkaregakhalsa now to satisfy my curiosity. Hate that.

spnadmin · #7 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 09:15 AM

I am hearing them pronounced. But ...I could also be misunderstanding the audio file. The first frame has the mool mantar. Right above there is a player to listen to the pronunciation. Hope to figure this out because it is the kind of thing that makes me obsessive.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054

http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/JapjiSahibji.htm

BhagatSingh · #8 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 10:11 AM

I always though the sihari and oankar were to "slant" the letter towards the vowels, rather than saying the vowel strongly. Its supposed to be subtle. I would definitely not say wa-hey-guru nor would i say wah-guru but somewhere in the middle.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34054

You ALWAYS pronounce the siharis, etc.
EDIT: when saying purakh(u) you do say the 'kh' with a (uh)
In case, of mat(i), you say the 't' with a (eh)

get it?

spnadmin · #9 (**permalink**) 10-Jan-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhagatSingh

I always though the sihari and oankar were to "slant" the letter towards the vowels, rather than saying the vowel strongly. Its supposed to be subtle. I would definitely not say wa-hey-guru nor would i say wah-guru but somewhere in the middle.

You ALWAYS pronounce the siharis, etc.
EDIT: when saying purakh(u) you do say the 'kh' with a (uh)
In case, of mat(i), you say the 't' with a (eh)

get it?

I agree - or at least that has been my own understanding, Bhagat ji. It is subtle but you can still hear it. Good example would be ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ prasaad(i) which would sound prasaadih with not a lot of emphasis on the "ih." Anyway that is what I am hearing in the gurbani file.