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A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair And Turban

rooh

SPNer
Jul 14, 2005
19
6
53
london
Re: Who are we to judge?

I agree with Max314. Amazing to read such carping remarks. The gurus did not judge on the basis of our physical appearance. They accepted everyone who came to them. Who are we to judge others and say that someone who cuts their hair is not sikh and someone who has a turban is a Sikh. In my mind, a true SiKh is one who does not judge but sees that divine spark in everyone and since many of us have not attained this insight, we should first take a good look at ourselves and question whether we are truly the Sikhs that we purport to be. Have we really imbibed the real essence of what it means to be Sikh? I think that many of us, will be found lacking. Most crucially, God's relationship with us is nothing to do with our physical state, but more to do with our inner state of being. But as we cannot ascendto the heights of the Gurus, we bring them down to our limited and constricted perspectives.
 

rosethorne

SPNer
Aug 13, 2005
148
1
49
New Delhi
Dear Khalsa Ji, That is a real fact that If a student don't get good marks in class, the main cause willbe not understanding the teacher's words. Like that we are defining the God's will as we want, the main cause we don't understand our Guru's words. God is not stopping us to do the bad or even ugly things but He is always there to punish on that doings. Every brain is in Man's own control, God has given independence to every person to think as he can, do as he can. When God has given us the birth in a Gursikh family then can anybody tell me that If we cut our hair is not a bad thing or God Himself comes to them to say it is Bad. God is not at my service or to anyother. But when we respect our God or Guru then we must remain in shape also.To meet god you need to be in shape. Thats Because God can't stop us He has gone down to your Employee. Your employee or your costomer is more important to you than God. Why we want to cut our hairs because for the good looks only, and as Rooh said God's relationship with us is nothing to do with our physical state, but more to do with our inner state of being. But what will you in your inner state of being when if you are ditching at your outer. God surely have the clue but the people don't have. To make ourself satified we make these kind of remarks. But surely Rooh knows about his/her own inner state of mind. I need not to say anything more.

God will help us all.
 

Lee

SPNer
May 17, 2005
495
377
55
London, UK
Dear Khalsa Ji, That is a real fact that If a student don't get good marks in class, the main cause willbe not understanding the teacher's words. Like that we are defining the God's will as we want, the main cause we don't understand our Guru's words. God is not stopping us to do the bad or even ugly things but He is always there to punish on that doings. Every brain is in Man's own control, God has given independence to every person to think as he can, do as he can. When God has given us the birth in a Gursikh family then can anybody tell me that If we cut our hair is not a bad thing or God Himself comes to them to say it is Bad. God is not at my service or to anyother. But when we respect our God or Guru then we must remain in shape also.To meet god you need to be in shape. Thats Because God can't stop us He has gone down to your Employee. Your employee or your costomer is more important to you than God. Why we want to cut our hairs because for the good looks only, and as Rooh said God's relationship with us is nothing to do with our physical state, but more to do with our inner state of being. But what will you in your inner state of being when if you are ditching at your outer. God surely have the clue but the people don't have. To make ourself satified we make these kind of remarks. But surely Rooh knows about his/her own inner state of mind. I need not to say anything more.

God will help us all.



Rosethorn Ji,

I agree with you. There are many arguments about hair, wether it is okay to cut, wether only the Khalsa need keep the 5 k's, etc... In reality though these arguments come from the mouth of man. The Sikhi ideal is to never forget God, and in doing this, God makes one aware of what one should and should not do.

In the first instance we should follow to the letter what our Guru Ji says, and in times where we cannot desirn what this is, or where differant interpretations are to found, then we must turn towards God, and take God's hukamen.

However we are all differant people, and in reality the way of a Sikh is a hard way and not many of us can see God, so we will get things wrong; in these case then it bodes us well to give each other the freedom to reach for God at our own pace.
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
Someone mentioned about not being a fanatic...
Sikh fanatism is actually better than fanatism in any other religion. A sikh fanatic is probably a better sikh.

Fateh
 
May 25, 2007
2
0
What Do You Want Follow Marayada, Gurus Denounced That God Cannot Be Found Theough Going To Jungles Or Leaving Up Everything In The Main By Following Rules. Why Do You Want Follow Rules , How Is The Discovery Of God If It Exists Depend On Whether You Have Hair Or Not, While It Certainly Had Nothing To Do With Finding God It Has Something To Do With Keeping The Sikh Tradtion Alive . Then Why Dont You Admit That That Is The Main Pupose Rather Than Finding Or Expriencing The Ultimate

Why Do You Think That God Is Something Up There Sitting On A Chair Who Is Control Freakand Punishes Us When We Do Bad Things. Why Are Trying To Categorise The Ultimate(there Is Nothing We Can Address That Being By) Into These Narrow Definitions Of Yours. What Is This Argument That Is A Child Is Born Into Sikh Family Cutting His Hair Is Bad. What Is Bad And What Is Right Is All Relative And Subjective So Dont Bring God Under This Denomination.

So Your Doing It Becouse Of What Happened And Becouse Of Guruji. It Means That Your Beliefs Second Hand , Nothing You Beliehf Or Do Is Yours ,

You Are Not Doing It Becousee It Is The Thing To Do , You Are Doing It For Someone's Sake That Makes It Impure Untill You Realise It Yourself There Is No Use
 
Feb 14, 2006
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< sRI vwihgurU jI kI Pqih ]
sRi muKvwk pwiqswhI 1oooooo0 ]
inswin isKI eIN pMj hriP Asq kwP ]
hrigj nw bwsd eIN pMj muAwP ] 1]
kVw kwrdo k`C kMGy ibdW ]
iblw kys hyc Asq jumly insW ] 2]
hrP hkwieq Asq AjI pMj kwP]
ibdw nMd bwvr n goXm iKlwP ] 3]
hu`kw hjwmq hlwlo hrwm ]
bwrIsy ihnw krd rU isXw Pwm ] 4] 1]
(AsPokt sÍYXy, sRI dsm gRMQ)

The following five K's are the mark of Sikhi.These five can never be parted from the body. Kara, Kirpan, Kashera, Kangha, recognise these as four of them.The fifth is Kesh, without which the other four are useless. There are also four H's which must be avoided. Understand this without any doubt, no lies have been told. Hukka, taking tobacco (including any other type of intoxicants). Hajamat, removing of hair. Halalo, eating meat. Haram, adultery (sexual relationships outside of marriage). These are the four H's. Dyeing of beards (including any other body hair), and the wearing of mehndi (including other types of make up) are strictly forbidden. (Sri Dasam Granth)
---------------------------------------------------------------

dwVHw muC isr kys bnweI ] hY ieh idRVH ijh pRBU rzweI ] myt rzweI ju sIs muMfwvY ] khu qy jg kYsy hir pwvY ]80]
dhaarrhaa mushh sir kaes banaaee || hai eih dhrirrh jih prabhoo razaaee || maett razaaee j sees mu(n)ddaavai || kahu thae jag kaisae har paavai ||80||
The hair moustache and beard are created within God's order. How can those who violate their natural form by cutting their hair ever be accepted by the Lord?.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh
--------------------------
sy dwVIAW scIAw ij gur crnI lgMin@ ] ....muK scy scu dwVIAw scu bolih scu kmwih ]
sae dhaarreeaaa(n) sacheeaa j gur charanee laga(n)nih || aaaamukh sachae sach dhaarreeaa sach bolehi sach kamaahi ||
Those beards are true, which brush the feet of the True Guru... True are the faces and true are the beards, of those who speak the Truth and live the Truth.

Page 1413 Guru Amar Daas Jee Salok
-----------------------------------
"Sarbat sangat Kabul Guru rakhe ga Tusa ute asaadee bahut khusi hai Tusi Khande da Amrit Panja to lena Kes rakhne...ih asadee mohur hair; Kachh, Kirpan da visah nahee karna SARB LOH da kara hath rakhna Dono vakat kesa dee palna karna Sarbat sangat abhakhia da kutha Khave naheen, Tamakoo na vartana Bhadni tatha kanya-maran-vale so mel na rakhe Meene, Massandei, Ramraiye ki sangat na baiso Gurbani parhni...Waheguru, Waheguru japna Guru kee rahat rakhnee Sarbat sangat oopar meri khushi hai.
Patshahi Dasvi Jeth 26, Samat 1756


(To the entire sangat at Kabul. The Guru will protect the Sangat, I am pleased with you all. You should take baptism by the sword, from the Five Beloveds. Keep your hair uncut for this is a seal of the Guru, Accept the use of shorts and a sword. Always wear IRON KARA on your wrist, Keep your hair clean and comb it twice a day. Do not eat Halal (Kosher) meat, Do not use tobacco in any form, Have no connection with those who kill their daughters Or permit the cutting of their children's hair. Do not associate with Meenas, Massands and Ram-raiyas (anti-Sikh cults) Recite the Guru's hymns Meditate on "The Name of our Wonderful Lord", Follow the Sikh code of discipline I give the entire sangat my blessing)
Signature of 10th Guru Jeth 26, 1756 Bikrami (23rd May 1699 A.D)

Guru Gobind Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
What Do You Want Follow Marayada, Gurus Denounced That God Cannot Be Found Theough Going To Jungles Or Leaving Up Everything In The Main By Following Rules. Why Do You Want Follow Rules , How Is The Discovery Of God If It Exists Depend On Whether You Have Hair Or Not, While It Certainly Had Nothing To Do With Finding God It Has Something To Do With Keeping The Sikh Tradtion Alive . Then Why Dont You Admit That That Is The Main Pupose Rather Than Finding Or Expriencing The Ultimate

Why Do You Think That God Is Something Up There Sitting On A Chair Who Is Control Freakand Punishes Us When We Do Bad Things. Why Are Trying To Categorise The Ultimate(there Is Nothing We Can Address That Being By) Into These Narrow Definitions Of Yours. What Is This Argument That Is A Child Is Born Into Sikh Family Cutting His Hair Is Bad. What Is Bad And What Is Right Is All Relative And Subjective So Dont Bring God Under This Denomination.

So Your Doing It Becouse Of What Happened And Becouse Of Guruji. It Means That Your Beliefs Second Hand , Nothing You Beliehf Or Do Is Yours ,

You Are Not Doing It Becousee It Is The Thing To Do , You Are Doing It For Someone's Sake That Makes It Impure Untill You Realise It Yourself There Is No Use

Respected Agampreet Singh Ji,

Rules are not followed for the sake of following them- there is always something behind it- WHY DO YOU STOP AT THE RED LIGHT ON A CROSSING??????
try all the time driving on the road without following driving rules- and tell us how long you survive :hmm:

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
 
May 25, 2007
2
0
i think you didn't get me properly . by following rules you must inevitably lose the real purpose. you tell me what is the relation between self knowledge and following rules be it sikhi rules or shriah. and if the rules helped to reach us somewhere then why every religion ,section, sub-section and even individuals have their own se of rules. rules only serve to save the particular religion and help it in keeping its identity distinct.these rules keep you clinging to your particular isolated section or religion. if a person is realy on the path to self knowledge or whatever it's called finding god or moksha or whatever, then why should he be bound by anything .
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Respected Agampreet Singh Ji,


if you are so concerned about only ' finding god or moksha or whatever'.... then why are you bothered by Sikhs or others following rules or not????????? Brahmcharyaa from everything helps, i guess..... just wondering why a straight seeker is clinging to this aspect of dharma ;)


forgive me please
 
Feb 16, 2007
5
0
Respected Surinder Kaur Cheema ji,

The point you are making up is absolutely correct that rules are made for the benefit of all. But the rules are effective only when you understand its correct meaning. Following traffic signals is a very good example but we know why we have to follow that rules. These rules have meaning and they change with times.

New times teach us new things and a society and culture could thrive and grow only if its followers or leaders have the guts to understand the needs of the changing society and are willing to accept the new thinkings and ideologies. Obviously, its the duty of the leaders to seperate wheat from weeds. They should know what new things or ideologies have to accepted and what have to be kept to help people move with the new times and still hold them back to their roots.

Respected Agampreet ji........ Your point is absolutely valid, and all of us should sit back and think what are we looking out. Are we trying to seek GOD (Guru), ultimate truth or are we trying to keep our society rooted and are making our people followers of something we don't understand ourselves.

Another point that all of us are forgetting is love, the ultimate love towards all the living beings made by GOD. This is also a way to achieve the almighty. Let us all think about it.


With due regards to all who are seniors and elders and understand things better. I am just trying to understand the best way of life...........
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
43
INDIA
New times teach us new things and a society and culture could thrive and grow only if its followers or leaders have the guts to understand the needs of the changing society and are willing to accept the new thinkings and ideologies. Obviously, its the duty of the leaders to seperate wheat from weeds. They should know what new things or ideologies have to accepted and what have to be kept to help people move with the new times and still hold them back to their roots.

dear soulful sardarni
you are right new times teach us new things but the sikhs that are cutting their hair
should have some solid reason to cut it.unfortunately majority of sikhs are cutting it to
look smarter and to attract opposite sex.with the reports from punjab of sikhs cutting their hairs their are also reports of youths of punjab taking drugs.so it means their is decline in
spirituality among sikhs.do you want the new image of sikhs as sex crazy people madly chasing girls and taking drugs.if this is new time then we don't need this type of new time.

when we are children our parents make rules for us which we don' like and they don't even give reasons to us because we are too immature to understand the reason
when we grow up we realise that those rules were for our benefit.similarly when we grow
in spirituality then only can we realise that whether these rules are for our benefit or not
 
Feb 16, 2007
5
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Dear Kds1980,

I fully agree with your point. But, probably my point is misunderstood. I just wanted to say that though the elders have right to lay down the rules, but at the same time its their duty to make kids understand the thought behind those rules in the way which is understandable to the kids.

This is true in all scenarios, otherwise we will though have rules but no followers because people who are made to follow it are either doing it blindly or are scraping it.

Its time now, that elders of our community should re-visit all the rules laid, understand its meaning themselves, lead by example and explain it to younger generations or else the thought behind all the rules will be lost and slowly and steadily we will lose all the blind followers, because its the age of asking questions and seeking answers, and for the benefit of all the answers have to be found...........

Regards,
Soulful_Sardarni
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
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agampreet singh:
you tell me what is the relation between self knowledge and following rules be it sikhi rules or shriah.
That's an interesting slander to compare Sikh religion with Islamic Sharia. Well here's one significant difference. In Sikh religion there is no sharia law which advocates physical abuse of women. Sikhi has nothing to do with Sharia. Not even close.
caning-in-aceh.jpg

these rules keep you clinging to your particular isolated section or religion. if a person is realy on the path to self knowledge or whatever it's called finding god or moksha or whatever, then why should he be bound by anything .
Sikhs are clinging to Guruji as the path to mukti, that is the Sikh religion. If you don't want to be a Sikh, and follow Guruji's hukam for how to obtain liberation, why create all this argumentative mischief to derail the validity of Sikhi because you personally choose not to value it's teachings?

Soulful_Sardarni:
New times teach us new things and a society and culture could thrive and grow only if its followers or leaders have the guts to understand the needs of the changing society and are willing to accept the new thinkings and ideologies.
What new thinking and new ideologies should Sikhs have the guts to change and conform to? Western countries have wealth, primarily gained at the expense of countries like India. Should we then adopt the ideology of imperialist economic expansion and injustice?

Western countries try to minimize children to maximize individual wealth. Should we then adopt this new thinking that birth control gives sexual freedom because in the West it's divorced from marriage and childbearing? Then we can give these devices to our daughters so they can "experiment?"

Maybe you're implying we should have the guts to understand that our kids feel like they're missing out when a young man wearing a joora can't attract an immoral, loose western girlfriend? And this would be some new ideology we should allow him to cut his joora off so he will be better accepted by the wrong kinds of people?

The point is, Sikh religion is a practice that will set you apart from worldly values and immorality. You won't be able to have the kinds of "fun" people are having in the West if you are wearing Kacchera, joora, no make-up...but you also won't be getting the record cases of venereal disease, unwanted pregnancies and insane levels of divorce and social abuse that goes with promiscuity. Gurbani says the whole world is crazy. And I believe Gurbani. But go running after the world if you want to.

If Sikhi fails at providing a lifestyle that protects people from the evils of maaya, then it fails. At least people have to abandon Sikhi to do bad things. It would be evil and corrupt for Sikhi to abandon all of us in order to change to be popular in the kalyug.

If a religion has no guts to stand up for what it stands for, then it wouldn't be worth keeping.
pr Dn pr qn pr qI inMdw AKwiD Kwih hrkwieAw ] (402-15, Awsw, mÚ 5)
par Dhan par tan par tee nindaa akhaaDh khaahi harkaa-i-aa.
Others' wealth, others' wives and the slander of others - eating the uneatable, you have gone crazy.

swc Drm isau ruic nhI AwvY siq sunq CohwieAw ]3] (402-15, Awsw, mÚ 5)
saach Dharam si-o ruch nahee aavai sat sunat chhohaa-i-aa. ||3||
You have not enshrined love for the True Faith of Dharma; hearing the Truth, you are enraged. ||3||

Society makes idols for teens and children. They are slickly polished, expensively promoted, financially rewarded by the dark forces. Sikh religion would destroy itself to keep up with these new ideologies and new thinking. And it would betray all our youth.
YouTube - HARD KAUR - SEXY BOY

Not everyone has the grace to be a Sikh/Sikhni. But the choice is always yours. Sikh religion has always been ahead of the times. It's about radical self-acceptance, and not conforming yourself to deluded standards which deny your modesty and your true beauty. Which kind of role model would you want to be the mother of your children?
YouTube - Kaurageous

YouTube - Sant Ji Talking about Womens Role in Sikhi
 
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Apr 11, 2007
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The turban is not the sole purpose to be a sikh. There are many SINGHS that do wrong aswell. You have to teach to be pure not just one aspect. Its about the whole collective way you live life. The sikh teachings are about ultimate purity. Purity of the mind, body and soul. Its a collective of all things a way of life. Not one way or the other. To be pure of the mind body and soul. SINGHS were made from sikhs. We are all sikhs learning. Just by doing one doesnt make you more better then another. It isnt about the next person anyway its about self. Reach within. Do not judge, who is more faithful. Only god can judge. There is only one god. Journeys different path to be pure. Same god to you and me.
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
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The turban is not the sole purpose to be a sikh.
We can all clearly see that the religion is not about wearing dastaar. But wearing dastaar is a part of the religion.
ਕੰਘਾ ਦੋਨੋ ਵਕਤ ਕਰ ਪਾਗ ਚੁਨੈ ਕਰ ਬਾਂਧਈ ॥
ka(n)ghaa dhono vakath kar paag chunai kar baa(n)dhhee ||
Comb your hair twice a daily and re-tie your dastaar (turban) each time your wear it.
Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee
There are many SINGHS that do wrong aswell. You have to teach to be pure not just one aspect. Its about the whole collective way you live life.
Every human being has imperfections. Singhs are human beings. Reciting Gurbani, singing kirtan, taking isnaan, keeping amrit vela, practicing Naam jap, doing seva, keeping sangat, giving daswandh, keeping rehitnamas, living by code of conduct and wearing panj kakkars of a Khalsa are the collective way to live your life as a Sikh. No one has said anything about Sikhism being about just one narrow thing, about judging others as less, or about being hypocritical. Sikhi is a way to live your life and every Sikh should be trying to conform more and more to Gursikhi. What is wrong with Sikhs trying to be good and keep these practices? Why is it all the people who want to tear down Sikh practices and articles of faith always criticize Sikhs?
SINGHS were made from sikhs. We are all sikhs learning. Just by doing one doesnt make you more better then another.
People can become Sikhs but no one is inherently a Sikh. A Sikh means disciple of Guru Sahib Ji. To be a Sikh, you must be Guru's disciple, not just someone in general learning something. That's like saying someone studying accounting is a Sikh because he's a learner. Thats a linguistic misuse of the definition of Sikh shishya, since guru-shishya is a concept. There is no shishya without a guru. It is better to follow the hukam of Guruji if you are a Sikh, a chela. Someone who disregards the Guru's instruction by saying he is not better than someone else, is still disregarding Guru's instruction. So it is up to the individual to try to be good or not, or to compromise his practice.
Do not judge, who is more faithful. Only god can judge. There is only one god. Journeys different path to be pure. Same god to you and me.
Do you say people are worshipping the One God through idols of many gods? Are Buddhists who shave their heads and don't believe in God, who worship many forms of Buddha and bodhisattvas following the same path as Gursikhi?

We are given the intelligence to discriminate between differences. We discriminate between hot and cold, truth and lies, good and evil. Not all paths are pure. Is an abusive cult which mistreats women and children a pure religious path equal to Gursikhi? Is a fake pakhandi baba who steals everybody's money or molests people's daughters and sons on the same spiritual journey? It is for us to use God-given intelligence to tell the difference. Because surely there are good and evil people in the world. All things are not the same. It is because we can judge good from evil actions which allows us to be protected from deceit and harm. And God has given us this dignity through discriminate use of our intelligence and intuition.
 

GuruPyaara

SPNer
May 5, 2007
35
3
iehu srIru sBu Drmu hY ijsu AMdir scy kI ivic joiq ] guhj rqn ivic luik rhy koeI gurmuiK syvku kFY Koiq ] sBu Awqm rwmu pCwixAw qW ieku rivAw ieko Eiq poiq ] ieku dyiKAw ieku mMinAw ieko suixAw sRvx sroiq ] jn nwnk nwmu slwih qU scu scy syvw qyrI hoiq ]


The body is so precious and pure, why not keep it the way it is made by Waheguru, Many saints from many other religions and faiths practice this after realizing this eternal truth. We sikhs are blessed by our Gurus with this fact anyways. Our Gurus, The Divine Jot is guiding us to the ultimate truth, through the ultimate truth not otherwise.

And I always look at myself in the mirror and praise God for making me like this, It is just marvelous creation of God, why not love, keep and respect it.
 
Apr 11, 2007
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In response to Harjas they all believe in the same god. Theres only one GOD. If someone wants to make a different practice in the way they do that then thats up to them. Although it is wrong. As Guru nanak has stated the way he has showed is the right way. The Moul manthar says enk on karr! There is only one god. Just different views on the same thing. Religions are many, thoughts are many. The only right path is through sikhism. You might say that if that's the case then, how can you call an hindu a hindu, or an christian a christian. They do that themselves. Like the caste system. Guru nanak didnt start the religion to make differences in it but to bring humanity closer together. In the end it falls down to understanding. You cant spoon feed thoughts of reality into no ones head. That is done through your own realisation of your life. Your journey is different to mine. Path is to be pure. Hope you find peace of mind. P.S. I aint trying to tear down any practices. Forgive me if i've misunderstood you. Maybe you were speaking in general. Otherwise I'd like to know were I've stated to tear down any sikhi practices.
Obviously if someone started to pray to a human and called them god, that would be there interpretation of god but would be wrong. Its a process of thought. Process thought on the right way to god through the gurbani.
Just the same as some people have sometimes stated Guru nanak to be god. Will my christian friends have, when it come to jesus.
JUST INCASE: They believe in god, just they dont follow the right way to god. ONLY ONE GOD AS STATED IN THE GURBARNI ASWELL. O AND HARJAS I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT BUT WHY ARE YOU WRITTING IT DOWN! You've quoted from me but havent added much extra to the debate. Its like trying to be picky? "YOU HAVENT SAID ANYTHING AGAINST MY QUOTES"> DID I SAY SOMETHING WRONG? CANT UNDERSTAND ARGUMENTATIVE! In the future I wont reply back to SILLY PEOPLE!! Waste of thought and energy. Wont lower myself to that breed of thought. NOT THAT IM SCARED OOOO! Maybe i've misinterprited you. SORRY AND PLEASE HUMBLEY FORGIVE ME, IF I HAVE!!!:D:p:}8-::confused::advocate::whisling::shock:

SOMETHING I SAW IN SOMEONES POST THAT I LIKED!!!!! NICE 1 SEEKER 2
Encouraging words, smiles they bring
Words that hurt, feel the sting
Hurtful words, pierce like a spear
Promising words, we hold so dear
Words of hope, deliver good cheer
Words of despair, cause many tears
Complimentary words, spoken so gently
Word that bring heartache, voiced intently
Words of sadness, crush a spirit
Loving words, uplift souls
Words can be powerful, mouth them with more control
Kind-hearted words pass the love with thoughtfulness
Not so hard to utter, instead of words that digress.
 

truthseeker

SPNer
Aug 11, 2004
158
8
19
Ontario, Canada
Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

Let me first say I'm sorry as i have not read the entire thread so i may be repeating something that someone has already posted.

I really do not understand why we bicker and agrue about these types of things. I hope everyone will agree with me if i were say that in order to be a sikh one must love their Guru.
May philosophers have stated that Love is a Verb(an action) and not merely a noun. So if one is to say they LOVE their Guru, they must do those actions in which love would be classified. This would include respecting, understanding and following Guru Sahib's Hukam. So if your Guru says jump you jump and if He says do not remove your hair, you do so.
Im not saying that a singh who cuts his hair does not love his Guru, but maybe is love is not as strong. Now im nobody to just, merely the dust of thy feet. But i think that this may give a little bit of an explanation for the reason why someone who calls himself a sikh may cut his hair.

Like someone else has already mentioned Sikhs are not the only ones to keep unshorn hair. Many enlightened people throughout history have kept unshorn hair once they where shown the ultimate truth or Waheguru. Being sikhs we have been blessed with a Guru who has given us the tools to attain mukti so easily. Without having to try different methods or go on different paths, we are given the most direct path to Waheguru, and keeping our hair is apart of that path.
Why do you think that its a bajjarkurehit when if we remove our hair and one must go infront of punj pyare, but if a kanga or kirpan is removed a simple ardas can just be done. Our Gurus gave a very high position to hair, and i think that we should try to remember just how important it is. Not only physically, but mentally and most most importantly, Spritually>
bhul chuk maaf karni

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh
 
May 30, 2007
81
8
Seems like people are really insecure about themselves!

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp...28F%29&sid= 1

sikh_boy_haircut_beas_20061023.jpg

"A young Sikh boy gets his hair cut at the local barber in a village near Beas"


One is often told that a Sikh without his flowing hair and turban is like a king without a crown.

But, across Punjab, and more so in the countryside, young members of the community are giving up the most visible religious symbol of Sikh identity—long hair and the turban. The trend, which has been growing in the last four to five years, has reached "epidemic" proportions and now has the Sikh religious leadership worried. So much so that desperate campaigns have been launched to revive the use of the turban.

When Outlook began examining this trend, Sikh organisations engaged in saving the turban estimated that about 80 per cent of the Sikh youth in rural Punjab have cut their hair and discarded their headgear. An exaggeration, one thought. But president of the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC), the highest decision-making body for the Sikhs, Avtar Singh Makkar, confirms this trend.

"With a turban on his head, a Sikh will feel guilty of breaching his faith. Its absence frees him from such qualms." Akal Takht Jathedar Joginder Singh Vedanti

He told Outlook: "Yes, it's true that in many places about 80 per cent of Sikh youth have indeed cut their hair. Sadly the 'dastaar bandhi samaagam' (a turban-tying ceremony for young boys), too, has become rare in villages because very few boys of 13 or 14 years of age have long hair."

Does this mean that the day is not far when a Sikh village in Punjab won't have a single turbaned male to show? This is not just in the realm of possibility but an inescapable reality according to a dismayed and rather helpless Sikh leadership.

But why are Sikhs, otherwise very dedicated to their religion, saying goodbye to turbans and going in for haircuts? Scholars say it is a combination of various factors, both social and economic, at play. The most common reason cited is the convenience of not having to go through the elaborate rigmarole of maintaining a beard and tying a turban. Says Baldev Singh, the patriarch of a large family in Adliwal near Amritsar, "Except I and my two brothers, all our sons and grandsons have shorn their hair.

It does pain me to see my family like this but no one listens to us nowadays." His daughter-in-law Roominder Kaur is quite happy with a clean-shaven son as she doesn't have to go through the tedium of combing and tying his hair each morning.

joginder_singh_vedanti_20061023.jpg


"The SGPC has given up its traditional role of preserving Sikh values and heritage and is more embroiled in politics."

Everyone agrees that the turban problem is acute in the villages where the land-owning Jat peasantry resides. One reason, perhaps, is the rural Punjabi youth's overriding desire to go West. Sikh scholars feel that in the aftermath of 9/11, when Sikhs are being mistaken for Muslims and attacked for sporting a beard and turban, there is a tendency among members of the community to adopt a more assimilative appearance so that they "look like others". It becomes easier to get past immigration. What a crock of sh*t!!!

If a person holds these dear to himself, then he will never shed them, but unfortunately there is no one nowadays to teach the youth all this. "

sikh_boys_turban_20061023.jpg


Ironically, the trend of clean-shaven Sikhs has picked up in Punjab at a time when the community is engaged in an international campaign to create awareness about the Sikh identity and the importance of wearing religious symbols like the turban and kirpan. Following the ban on wearing turbans in French schools in 2004, and also several cases of hate crimes against Sikhs after 9/11, Sikh organisations began a drive to create awareness about the Sikh faith in Europe, US and Australia.

When the French ban was announced, Sikh organisations—political, social and religious—in India and abroad protested. On the urging of the SGPC, PM Manmohan Singh, too, took up the issue with the French government. But as Jaswinder Singh, an SGPC member and president of the Akal Purakh Ki Fauj (an organisation engaged in popularising turbans and long hair in Punjab), points out, "If the French government comes to know of the situation in Punjab now, it will be embarrassing for us. How can we fight for the right to wear long hair and turbans abroad when people are abandoning the same in the home of Sikhism?"

Is a Sikh without his 'kesh' or long hair a lesser Sikh? In popular parlance, a clean-shaven Sikh is a 'patit' or an apostate. Says Professor Sher Singh of the Institute of Sikh Studies, "Of all the five Ks—'kesh, kada, kirpan, kangha and kachh'—which Guru Gobind Singh had made mandatory for all Sikhs to wear, the 'kesh' comes first and is foremost and indispensable to a Sikh's identity. Without the 'kesh', the other symbols are meaningless."

In recent years, several organisations have sprung up in Punjab to revive the tradition of keeping long hair and wearing turbans. The 'Kesh Sambhal Prachaar Sanstha' is one such outfit which, among other things, runs two turban-tying schools in Jalandhar and Amritsar, where young Sikhs are taught how to tie a turban. Says the Sanstha secretary, Sukhdev Singh Sandhawalia, "The most common excuse boys give for cutting their hair is that they don't know how to tie a turban."

Another organisation holds a popular competition to select 'Mr Singh International' which is open only for turbaned Sikhs. Among other things, the contestants have to participate in a round called 'Meri Dastaar, Meri Shaan, Meri Pehchaan' (My turban, my pride, my identity) where they are judged on how well their turbans are tied. The latest champion of the turban and long hair in Punjab is former cricketer and the BJP's Lok Sabha MP from Amritsar, Navjot Singh Sidhu, who held a procession in Amritsar to revive the use of turbans and instil a sense of pride in Punjabi youth in wearing one. Ironically, Sidhu is under flak for trimming his beard and allowing his son to cut his hair

sikh_family_amritsar_20061023.jpg

"A typical rural scenario—the patriarch of a large family (in turban) with his sons and grandsons who got their hair cut in Adliwal village near Amritsar"

Why and how did things come to such a pass? Many feel the custodians of the Sikh heritage like the SGPC cannot escape criticism. Says G.S. Lamba, Sikh scholar and editor of Sant Sipahi, a popular Sikh community journal: "The SGPC has abandoned its traditional role of preserving Sikh values and heritage and is more embroiled in politics. When the Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD) abdicated its role as a religious party and adopted a secular garb, the SGPC should have taken its religious duties seriously.

But unfortunately it's the other way around. The SGPC has become an organ of the SAD, and has neglected preaching in villages. It's also shameful that the two are projecting a 'patit' like Navjot Singh Sidhu as a role model for the Sikh youth for the coming elections."

He points to the recent controversy over Harbhajan Singh appearing in an advertisement with his hair open as an example. "This shows the SGPC's double standards. They are picking on Harbhajan Singh just to get some good publicity with the Sikh masses. If they are serious about the issue, they should start by taking action against the families of the SGPC members who have shorn hair and also the clean-shaven cadres of the SAD."

Though Harbhajan Singh apologised to the Sikh clergy for the offending representation in the advertisement, his comment on the matter is telling. "I apologise if I have hurt the feelings of my people, but why should the SGPC compare me with Monty Panesar (English cricketer of Sikh origin who sports a turban and beard) and not Yuvraj Singh and singer Gurdas Mann both of whom have cut their hair?"

Clearly, the situation has gone beyond hair-splitting as rural Punjab's tryst with the barber keeps growing. The land-owning Jat Sikhs have all but shed the turban, whereas the more conservative trading 'Khatri Sikhs' in urban areas are less inclined towards the new trend. One reason is that most of the Sikh gurus were 'Khatris' or from the trading community which is why this section of Sikhs are more staunch believers.

But go to rural Punjab and there are some tell-tale indicators of change. Where earlier, the sole barber in a village had to supplement his income by selling sweetmeats, now, most villages have three to four barbers. The feisty land-owning Punjabi Jat farmer has always been known for his enterprise and desire to try new things. True to form, it is he who is leading the 'no turban' trend even though it makes him an apostate in the eyes of his religion.

Sat Shri Akal
my dear friend I appreciate ur concern over whatever is going on in punjab n else where.Sikhi has gone thru hard times n on;y strong evlove while others perish.Waheguru created a small religion despite of knowing that already two big religion r existing n god knew that they can easily absorb this small religion But Guru gave sikhs a way of life called sikhi n it is very difficult lifestyle as our history tells us very clearly.Guru Gobind Singh created new religion only for the toughest ones.He Asked for five heads(most difficult decision n task one can perform n most difficult to perform Hukum of Guru) n seeing them many agreed to follow this toughest lifestyle n so sikhs evolved.Guru joined them in their army n soft hands were handling weapons in the battle fields.they agreed to accept toughest Hukums of their guru.Those who refused guru didn't accept them as his sikhs.So my friend Sikhi is very very difficult both at physical n mentally.mentally a sikh must be very strong n free himself from shaky ground(worldly ****-example bollywood in India) n so Guru called them as Khalsa becoz they despite of living in meteristic world n worldly attraction never refused to Guru's Hukums(Orders) n strictly followed guru's way of being a Saint n a Soldier.

He made Sikhs a Saint becoz a saint can easily conquer his mind n follow guru's toughest hukums-Example getting up at 2 o'clock(time when golden temple door r opened for sikhs to come inside n so sikh must be present before doors open).tell me how many sikhs do this today.i think Number is less than 1%.

Also Sikh is Soldier n greatest part of a soldier is self disciple n mind management.Now-a-days sikhs have no time of getting up,no proper sleeping time,No eating timing(they eat whole day like pigs).They never exercise n have no exercise timing everyday,No weapon training,No proper respect n following of Guru gobind Singh Orders.
now tell me r these sikhs any different from other religions those who simply talk n praise their respective religion n NEVER FOLLOW(difficult part) becoz following is difficult.But Sikhi itself means difficult lifestyle n toughest only survive while others collapse or hide their identity n merge into others.Guru said no caste but jats said more caste system.they disobeyed Guru one Bachaan n so it was an easy way to disrespect guru n it is this disrespect n neglecting of guru 's bachaan that is making them very very weak day by day.Simple logic-Disobey one Hukum n one can disobey many many and if One stick hard to one Hukum He/she can stick to all.Logic is very Simple n it is the only strong driving force among sikhs of past.Guru said no hair-cutting n so sikhs sticked to it very very very firmly n it was the most most toughest Hukum of guru for sikhs n they obeyed it.Result they wiped out all mugals n totally perished their big Empire.

This theory holds true for all time.Now the question do jatts(who r No. 1 in hair cutting) in punjab stick to Guru's Bachaans.Answer is No.
So why Guru himself(who manages this entire world n entire universe at his will) should continue with this kind of sikhi.So Guru himself is helping such weak to be sucked by waves of this ocean world n finally perish skowly.
Only those r true n follow guru's Hukums will remain n emerge strong n very powerful they will be called Khalsas.Rulers will be only khlasas.Rest will perish.Says guru Granth SahibJi So why worry my friend.Noone can stop guru's Hukum.Can U?.
Have very firm faith in Guru n Immense trust in ur Lion-Saint Guru.Be like ur Guru n live his lifestyle.I know today's lifestyle is very different but a sikh should be very adaptable without sacrificing sikhi paths.U can still wake up at 2 or 4 o'clock to offer paath to Guru.Sikhs have accepted the modern lifestyle by giving up sikhi paths.They wake up very late n eat heavy 3 meals.Sikhs of the past ate little Karha-Prasad after paath n Kirtan that ended at 6 or 7 n stayed that way till 12 o'clock(conquering their minds) n ate only two meals whole day.Second meal after rehraas Sahib n Kirtan Sohilla after sunset.Do sikhs of today maintain this kind of discipline.Answer No.So Sikhi is vanishing n so the sikhs as they loose chardi kala that comes from guru by following this tough lifestyle.Believe me my friend.I practice all this everyday n so i truely know what is true feelings of Chardi kala.
Weak will be the first to feel insecure n start hiding themselves by getting hair cut n easily fall prey into this world ****,bollywood,alcohol,etc.They will vanish oneday.Patits will perish.Strong n toughest will continue.
My advise to U is that U focuss more on urself n ur nearest ones.U will never shake by the toughest storms of this world.
Listen Guru,See Guru's videos n movies n sikhi,talk Sikhi n guru's bachaans n Live Guru's toughest lifestyle n then see the wonder results all by urself.It is an experince n true strength that one gets by following at self level.noone else can help u to follow except U urself.

So here r some wonder guidelines of guru Ji 's(though very tough):

1. wake up very early in the morning 2 0r 4 o'clock.:cool:

2.eat very little in the morning(Asa Di Vaar sung in the early morning to remind sikhs of important things n one of them is:Aan pani thora Khaya So Baksisi agla-means sikh should eat n drink very light early morning n so he will be able to focuss on Guru's words n keep them in mind throughout the day):cool:.Isn't this is mind conquering exercise of guruji's.

3.Eat heavy meal at 11:00 or 12:00 n exercise heavily afterwards.:cool:

4.Don't relax or sleep during day.very little is acceptable but it is a curse for a soldier when he is in war/battle n so prepare like a soldier.keep urself engaged in tough activites,games n sports,weapon training,etc to be a ALL-READY soldier.:cool:TAYAAR BAR TAYAAR KHALSA.

5.Eat second heavy meal after rehraas n again exercise.Sleep late n wake up early.nothing is more tough than this one.Says guru himself.Thora sonvey thora hee khavey.Sikh must sleep less n eat less meals.:cool:


jatts in punjabs have poor lifestyle n so thier body is very weak n so they feel hot n cold very easily.:crazy:So they get rid of their hairs at earliest.Biharis work for them n they simply relax at home,eat,drink n no exercise.So is the result.Those who cannot change themselves will elope or vanish one day for sure.

Chardi Kala
Bole Sohnehal Sat Shri Akal.
Victory to Khalsa Alone
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
Sat Shri Akal
my dear friend I appreciate ur concern over whatever is going on in punjab n else where.Sikhi has gone thru hard times n on;y strong evlove while others perish.Waheguru created a small religion despite of knowing that already two big religion r existing n god knew that they can easily absorb this small religion But Guru gave sikhs a way of life called sikhi n it is very difficult lifestyle as our history tells us very clearly.Guru Gobind Singh created new religion only for the toughest ones.He Asked for five heads(most difficult decision n task one can perform n most difficult to perform Hukum of Guru) n seeing them many agreed to follow this toughest lifestyle n so sikhs evolved.Guru joined them in their army n soft hands were handling weapons in the battle fields.they agreed to accept toughest Hukums of their guru.Those who refused guru didn't accept them as his sikhs.So my friend Sikhi is very very difficult both at physical n mentally.mentally a sikh must be very strong n free himself from shaky ground(worldly ****-example bollywood in India) n so Guru called them as Khalsa becoz they despite of living in meteristic world n worldly attraction never refused to Guru's Hukums(Orders) n strictly followed guru's way of being a Saint n a Soldier.

He made Sikhs a Saint becoz a saint can easily conquer his mind n follow guru's toughest hukums-Example getting up at 2 o'clock(time when golden temple door r opened for sikhs to come inside n so sikh must be present before doors open).tell me how many sikhs do this today.i think Number is less than 1%.

Also Sikh is Soldier n greatest part of a soldier is self disciple n mind management.Now-a-days sikhs have no time of getting up,no proper sleeping time,No eating timing(they eat whole day like pigs).They never exercise n have no exercise timing everyday,No weapon training,No proper respect n following of Guru gobind Singh Orders.
now tell me r these sikhs any different from other religions those who simply talk n praise their respective religion n NEVER FOLLOW(difficult part) becoz following is difficult.But Sikhi itself means difficult lifestyle n toughest only survive while others collapse or hide their identity n merge into others.Guru said no caste but jats said more caste system.they disobeyed Guru one Bachaan n so it was an easy way to disrespect guru n it is this disrespect n neglecting of guru 's bachaan that is making them very very weak day by day.Simple logic-Disobey one Hukum n one can disobey many many and if One stick hard to one Hukum He/she can stick to all.Logic is very Simple n it is the only strong driving force among sikhs of past.Guru said no hair-cutting n so sikhs sticked to it very very very firmly n it was the most most toughest Hukum of guru for sikhs n they obeyed it.Result they wiped out all mugals n totally perished their big Empire.

This theory holds true for all time.Now the question do jatts(who r No. 1 in hair cutting) in punjab stick to Guru's Bachaans.Answer is No.
So why Guru himself(who manages this entire world n entire universe at his will) should continue with this kind of sikhi.So Guru himself is helping such weak to be sucked by waves of this ocean world n finally perish skowly.
Only those r true n follow guru's Hukums will remain n emerge strong n very powerful they will be called Khalsas.Rulers will be only khlasas.Rest will perish.Says guru Granth SahibJi So why worry my friend.Noone can stop guru's Hukum.Can U?.
Have very firm faith in Guru n Immense trust in ur Lion-Saint Guru.Be like ur Guru n live his lifestyle.I know today's lifestyle is very different but a sikh should be very adaptable without sacrificing sikhi paths.U can still wake up at 2 or 4 o'clock to offer paath to Guru.Sikhs have accepted the modern lifestyle by giving up sikhi paths.They wake up very late n eat heavy 3 meals.Sikhs of the past ate little Karha-Prasad after paath n Kirtan that ended at 6 or 7 n stayed that way till 12 o'clock(conquering their minds) n ate only two meals whole day.Second meal after rehraas Sahib n Kirtan Sohilla after sunset.Do sikhs of today maintain this kind of discipline.Answer No.So Sikhi is vanishing n so the sikhs as they loose chardi kala that comes from guru by following this tough lifestyle.Believe me my friend.I practice all this everyday n so i truely know what is true feelings of Chardi kala.
Weak will be the first to feel insecure n start hiding themselves by getting hair cut n easily fall prey into this world ****,bollywood,alcohol,etc.They will vanish oneday.Patits will perish.Strong n toughest will continue.
My advise to U is that U focuss more on urself n ur nearest ones.U will never shake by the toughest storms of this world.
Listen Guru,See Guru's videos n movies n sikhi,talk Sikhi n guru's bachaans n Live Guru's toughest lifestyle n then see the wonder results all by urself.It is an experince n true strength that one gets by following at self level.noone else can help u to follow except U urself.

So here r some wonder guidelines of guru Ji 's(though very tough):

1. wake up very early in the morning 2 0r 4 o'clock.:cool:

2.eat very little in the morning(Asa Di Vaar sung in the early morning to remind sikhs of important things n one of them is:Aan pani thora Khaya So Baksisi agla-means sikh should eat n drink very light early morning n so he will be able to focuss on Guru's words n keep them in mind throughout the day):cool:.Isn't this is mind conquering exercise of guruji's.

3.Eat heavy meal at 11:00 or 12:00 n exercise heavily afterwards.:cool:

4.Don't relax or sleep during day.very little is acceptable but it is a curse for a soldier when he is in war/battle n so prepare like a soldier.keep urself engaged in tough activites,games n sports,weapon training,etc to be a ALL-READY soldier.:cool:TAYAAR BAR TAYAAR KHALSA.

5.Eat second heavy meal after rehraas n again exercise.Sleep late n wake up early.nothing is more tough than this one.Says guru himself.Thora sonvey thora hee khavey.Sikh must sleep less n eat less meals.:cool:

jatts in punjabs have poor lifestyle n so thier body is very weak n so they feel hot n cold very easily.:crazy:So they get rid of their hairs at earliest.Biharis work for them n they simply relax at home,eat,drink n no exercise.So is the result.Those who cannot change themselves will elope or vanish one day for sure.

Chardi Kala
Bole Sohnehal Sat Shri Akal.
Victory to Khalsa Alone

where are you getting all this from? :confused:

sleeping late and waking early is not very healthy, eating less is even worse. on top of that you say that Khalsa must do heavy work during the day and not sleep at all. :hmm: if tayaar bar tayaar khalsa means that khalsa is deprived of sleep and nutrition then khalsa is not really tayaar
 

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