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Islam A Question To My Muslim Friends Here

what if the Quran is truly from God, and you guys are denying it, what will you say on the day of judgement? what do you expect from God?
So that's why you became muslim? You don't want to take any chances and miss spot in paradise.
As per your version of islam, anybody who does not consider Mohamad as prophet will go to hell, even though he obeys every command of God, lives a pious life, do charity, remembers Lord for every breathing moment.
You look more committed to Mohamad than Allah.
 
See? Mind boggling, isn't it?

Do you even realize that you have done just EXACTLY what I said you would do?

But, just in case you are really interested in reading how your arguments have already been undeniably smashed, you can scroll back and read posts 36, 41, 45, 58, 73.

Now, I predict that you will gloss over these arguments and come right back with another copy and paste saying the same things over again as though you hadn't read a thing.

lolz...good fun

one cant help but feel sorry for such a soul.
 
LOL Right on queue.

Okay, I'll bite.

Let me spell it out.

1. You said the fact that people shuffle around the black stone in a counterclockwise direction is proof that Islam is the only truth and Mecca is the center of the world.

Your arguments for this were
a. Galaxies spin in a counterclockwise orbit around their center
b. Electrons spin in a counterclockwise fashion around the nucleus
c. Mecca is the center of the world.

Unfortunately for your arguments, there was a real scientist in the room who addressed your three supporting arguments by proving with facts, figures, and PICTURES that:
a. Galaxies can rotate either counterclockwise OR clockwise fashion as proven by Hubble's big camera in the sky.
b. Electrons do NOT spin around the nucleus and the theory that supposed they did has since been disproven.
c. Mecca is NOT the center of the world since the surface of a sphere has no "center."

So:
1. Your supposition was that Islam is the only truth.
2. Your support for this argument was a.b.&c.
3. a.b.&c. were proven false by solid science.

Conclusion: Supporting arguments were proven false, therefore the supposition would also be false.

Now, you have continued to ignore the facts presented to you and repeat the same arguments again and again when they have been clearly, and in no uncertain terms, proven WRONG.

That's the part I don't get. Do you think that your false arguments are going to tranform themselves into truth due to repetition? Do you think that nobody has noticed the big picture with the two galaxies rotating in opposite directions? Do you expect us to all go, "Oh wow... they do trample around the black rock in a counterclockwise direction -- that must mean that Islam really IS the truth!"

Because if that is your proof then Wicca is also the truth (some call that witchcraft) since they all do their ceremonies in counterclockwise direction. They call it "widdershins." So maybe Muhammad learned that from the witches and Druids since they were doing it way before he ever came along.

But it is more likely he got it from the same place he got most of his stories -- from Judaism:

in Judaism circles are sometimes walked anticlockwise. For example: when a bride circles her groom seven times before marriage, when dancing around the bimah during Simchat Torah (or when dancing in a circle at any time), or when the Torah is brought out of the Ark (Ark is approached from the right, and left from the left).
This has its origins in the Beis Hamikdash, where in order not to get in each others way, the Priests would walk around the Altar anticlockwise while performing their duties. When entering the Beis Hamikdash the people would enter by one gate, and leave by another. The resulting direction of motion was anticlockwise.
In the Eastern Orthodox Church, however, it is normal for processions around a church to go widdershins.
Wikipedia :advocate:

Yes folks, the superstition of running counterclockwise around sacred sites has been around long before Muhammad.

Now, maybe we should move on to the argument that Islam is the truth because of the "miraculous" knowledge of human development in the womb since Islamic writings said that God created man from a blood clot or leech like thing. But then, that would be easily observed by anyone who had ever witnessed an early term miscarriage, so perhaps we should go to the proof of the Big Bang... oh no that's already been disproven too. Lets see... oh, how about perfection of the language of the Quran? I think I still have those references to all the scholars who point out grammatical errors in the Quran. Or maybe the supposition that Muhammad was illiterate and had never been exposed to any other religions and therefore his knowledge was miraculous? How about that one? Oh but that won't work either since we know he was merchant who travelled among jews and all practitioners of various religions of the time, and was exposed to the Abramic stories many many times throughout his entire lifetime. Hmmm. No, that one's not good either.

Oh I know -- the CLOUDS! (jumping and clapping) How about the cloud proofs? Those are the funniest ones of all.

I love the clouds. :rofl!!:



Or then again, you could just stop with all the embarrassing claims of scientific evidence in the Quran and redeem yourself by getting real and telling us what Islam means to you and why you love it and have decided to embrace it as your own personal faith. You might even consider respecting our own choices too. And if you feel really brave, maybe you could take into account the possbility that there might actually be other ways of serving God besides your own. And then, if you want to really get out there on a limb you could even entertain the idea that God may just be bigger than the little black box in the desert and he might even make his own decisions about how he wants to reveal himself to every individual, and that maybe -- just maybe -- we humans don't have any right to try to dictate how God will or will not reveal himself to any people at any given time or age.
 
like you said animals are fulfilling their function or purpose, they dont need a messenger to tell them how to live their lives. but you and me do. we can make our own decisions. animals cannot apostate to another animal, a shep cannot become a tiger, it does what it is created to do, eat grass, not other animals.
Get it?
This post really caught my attention. If we can make our own decisions, why do we need messengers??
 
I personally think of a messenger as a kind and wise teacher, like Jesus and Guru Nanak. Unfortunately, there are those who are more like fear mongering dictators.
 
Firstly thank you for your questions, i do not mean to offend you in any way. This thread did begin with an attack on Islam, and I am here to clarify the misconceptions.

Question 1. There were times when man did not exist. Billion years after the creation of the universe humans were created. In other words, we were nothing before we were created:
"Did the human being forget that we created him already, and he was nothing?" (19:67).

This is referring to the theory of creation. Science says humans evolved from monkeys.

Man created from sperm and dust
The Qur’an refers to the lowly beginnings of a human being from a drop of sperm, in several verses including the following verse from Surah Al-Qiyamah:
"Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)"?
[Al-Qur’an 75:37]
The Qur’an also mentions in several places that human beings were created from dust. The following verse makes a reference to the origin of human beings:
"(Consider) that We created you out of dust".
[Al-Qur’an 22:5]
We now know that all the elements present in the human body (i.e. the constituent elements of the human body) are all present in the earth in small or great quantities. This is the scientific explanation for the Qur’anic verse that says that man was created from dust.

In certain verses, the Qur’an says that man was created from sperm, while in certain other verses it says that man was created from dust. However this is not a contradiction. Contradiction means statements, which are opposite or conflicting and both cannot be true simultaneously.
2. Man created from water
In certain places the Qur’an also says that man was created from water. For instance in Surah Al-Furqan it says:
"It is He Who has created man from water".
[Al-Qur’an 25:54]
Science has proved all the three statements to be correct. Man has been created from sperm, dust as well as water.
3. It is not a Contradiction but a Contradistinction
Suppose I say that in order to make a cup of tea one needs water. One also needs tealeaves or tea powder. The two statements are not contradictory since both water and tealeaves are required in order to make a cup of tea. Furthermore if I want sweet tea I can even add sugar.
Thus there is no contradiction in the Qur’an when it says that man is created from sperm, dust and water. It is not a contradiction but a contradistinction. Contradistinction means speaking about two different concepts on the same subject without conflict. For instance if I say that the man is always truthful and a habitual liar, it is a contradiction, but if I say that a man is always honest, kind and loving, then it is a contradistinction.


So you are saying that man was created from nothing, clay, dust and sperm? And science proves it? (BTW you didnt answer all the quotes i posted)


QUESTION 2: Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
3. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5). "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
ANSWER 2: Yes, there is no compulsion in religion according to the Quran, and Muslims are permitted to defend themselves against aggressors and murderers.
The Quran promotes freedom of opinion, religion, and expression. The critic is taking the verses from Chapter 9 out of its context and present it as a contradiction with the principle expressed in 2:256 and other verses. The Chapter 9 starts with an ultimatum Meccan mushriks who not only tortured, killed, and evicted muslims from their homes, they mobilized several major war campaigns against them while they established a peaceful multinational and multi-religious community. The beginning of the Chapter refers to their violation of the peace treaty and gives them an ultimatum and four months to stop aggression. Thus, the verses quoted from Chapter 9 have nothing to do with freedom of religion; it is a warning against aggressor murderer religious fanatics.
Prove it.

QUESTION 3: The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
ANSWER 3: Many Prophets and messengers were the first muslims in their time and location.
If we check google.com with the following words: Olympic first place 100-meters and running, we will find many names of athletes who got the first place. If we use the logic of the critic, we would think that there is a great confusion and contradictory claims regarding the first place winner of 100-meters. What is wrong with that logic? Obviously, we need to consider the two important elements called time and space! Abraham was first muslim (submitter and promoter of peace) in his time and location. Similarly, Moses and Muhammad were too pioneer muslims of their times.
What kind of an analogy is that? Anyone could win first place. But if you look at who was the first person to win first place, you would only find one name. In Quran you find 4.

ANSWER 4: God does not forgive those who associate other powers or gods to Him, if they do not repent on time.
The Quran contains numerous verses regarding idol-worshipers or mushriks accepting the message of islam.
"He is the One who accepts the repentance from His servants, and remits the sins. He is fully aware of everything you do." (42:25).
Most of the supporters of and companion of messengers were associating partners to God before they repented and accepted the message.

This didn't even come close to answering the question.

QUESTION 6: Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
1. "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: 'I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam).' (It was said to him): 'Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee!' But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
2. "Moses said, 'Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!' So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
ANSWER 6: Pharaoh was killed by drowning and his body was saved via mummification.
Verse 10:92 does not say that God will keep Pharaoh alive; it informs us that God will preseverve His body after he was drowned. We know that the pharoah has been preserved.
if you want answers to other questions, find it your self! if you are open minded and you want to know the truth, not argue your way around the truth, then I will find it for you.
How do you save someone by mummifying them? They are still dead. IN that verse God doesnt say He will preserve his body. HE said he will preserve what is in the body. Meaning soul/ life. So you're wrong there. I put up the answers to the questions. The answers showed the contradictions in Quran. So far you haven't disproved much.

why dont you and proove me wrong?
Sure

It clearly refers to a lamp, a lamp give of its own light,
First of a lamp burns on fuel, the Sun doesn't.
a lamp shining on an object does not make it similar to a lamp,
A lamp shining on an object, depending on how you look at it does make it similar. They both glow, both shine.
Again, post the full verse.

instead it applies it light onto an object like the quran says:

"It is He who made sun a lamp, and moon a light and measured stages so you know number of years and count (of time)." (10:5)

The arabic word used for Nur means applied light or reflection of light! these scientific facts have been confirmd by top scientists in the world! example professor keith moore, dr maurice bucaille, .......
Completely wrong. Nur means light itself not applying light.
they have all concluded that there is not a single contradiction in the Quran with established modern science.
This statement is utterly false.

"Friend no offense you cant believe in somthing without proof. Otherwise anyone could claim they are a prophet, but infact they are completely misleading you. Its your decision, and you are accountable for for it. "
Try and follow your own advice.


Again, I will post the contradictions, for your convinience:
Contradictions in the Qur'an

The Qur'an states that it is a perfect book preserved on tablets in heaven (Surah 85:21-22). If the Qur'an is a perfect book from Allah, then there shouldn't be any contradictions in it. Of course, the Muslims will deny any contradictions exist in the Qur'an, but they do. Some of the contradictions below could be debated, but some of them are clearly contradictions.
A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the possibility of another. The first one here is a good example. In Surah 19:67, it states that man was created out of nothing. In 15:26, man is created from clay. Since clay is something, we have a contradiction since "nothing" excludes the possibility of "clay." Both cannot be true.
All quotes from the Qur'an, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.
  • What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
    • "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
    • "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
    • "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
    • "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
    • "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
  • Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
    • "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
    • "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
    • "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
    • Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
  • The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
    • "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
    • "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
    • "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
  • Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
    • Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
    • The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).
  • Are Allah's decrees changed or not?
    • "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
    • "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
    • None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
    • When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
  • Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
    • "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
    • Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
  • Is wine consumption good or bad?
    • O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
    • (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
    • Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).
taken from : Contradictions in the Qur'an, Koran

sat sri Akal, God's name is the truth.
 
I personally think of a messenger as a kind and wise teacher, like Jesus and Guru Nanak. Unfortunately, there are those who are more like fear mongering dictators.
If someone's a messenger, it does not mean they are a teacher. Jesus(who probably never existed) was a messenger. Although, you could learn from him, he was not a teacher. There is a difference. :)
ANd BTW don't compare Jesus with Guru Nanak.
 

kay

SPNer
LOL Right on queue.

Okay, I'll bite.

Let me spell it out.

1. You said the fact that people shuffle around the black stone in a counterclockwise direction is proof that Islam is the only truth and Mecca is the center of the world.

Your arguments for this were
a. Galaxies spin in a counterclockwise orbit around their center
b. Electrons spin in a counterclockwise fashion around the nucleus
c. Mecca is the center of the world.

Unfortunately for your arguments, there was a real scientist in the room who addressed your three supporting arguments by proving with facts, figures, and PICTURES that:
a. Galaxies can rotate either counterclockwise OR clockwise fashion as proven by Hubble's big camera in the sky.
b. Electrons do NOT spin around the nucleus and the theory that supposed they did has since been disproven.
c. Mecca is NOT the center of the world since the surface of a sphere has no "center."

So:
1. Your supposition was that Islam is the only truth.
2. Your support for this argument was a.b.&c.
3. a.b.&c. were proven false by solid science.

Conclusion: Supporting arguments were proven false, therefore the supposition would also be false.

Now, you have continued to ignore the facts presented to you and repeat the same arguments again and again when they have been clearly, and in no uncertain terms, proven WRONG.

That's the part I don't get. Do you think that your false arguments are going to tranform themselves into truth due to repetition? Do you think that nobody has noticed the big picture with the two galaxies rotating in opposite directions? Do you expect us to all go, "Oh wow... they do trample around the black rock in a counterclockwise direction -- that must mean that Islam really IS the truth!"

Because if that is your proof then Wicca is also the truth (some call that witchcraft) since they all do their ceremonies in counterclockwise direction. They call it "widdershins." So maybe Muhammad learned that from the witches and Druids since they were doing it way before he ever came along.

But it is more likely he got it from the same place he got most of his stories -- from Judaism:

Wikipedia :advocate:

Yes folks, the superstition of running counterclockwise around sacred sites has been around long before Muhammad.

Now, maybe we should move on to the argument that Islam is the truth because of the "miraculous" knowledge of human development in the womb since Islamic writings said that God created man from a blood clot or leech like thing. But then, that would be easily observed by anyone who had ever witnessed an early term miscarriage, so perhaps we should go to the proof of the Big Bang... oh no that's already been disproven too. Lets see... oh, how about perfection of the language of the Quran? I think I still have those references to all the scholars who point out grammatical errors in the Quran. Or maybe the supposition that Muhammad was illiterate and had never been exposed to any other religions and therefore his knowledge was miraculous? How about that one? Oh but that won't work either since we know he was merchant who travelled among jews and all practitioners of various religions of the time, and was exposed to the Abramic stories many many times throughout his entire lifetime. Hmmm. No, that one's not good either.

Oh I know -- the CLOUDS! (jumping and clapping) How about the cloud proofs? Those are the funniest ones of all.

I love the clouds. :rofl!!:



Or then again, you could just stop with all the embarrassing claims of scientific evidence in the Quran and redeem yourself by getting real and telling us what Islam means to you and why you love it and have decided to embrace it as your own personal faith. You might even consider respecting our own choices too. And if you feel really brave, maybe you could take into account the possbility that there might actually be other ways of serving God besides your own. And then, if you want to really get out there on a limb you could even entertain the idea that God may just be bigger than the little black box in the desert and he might even make his own decisions about how he wants to reveal himself to every individual, and that maybe -- just maybe -- we humans don't have any right to try to dictate how God will or will not reveal himself to any people at any given time or age.

I will answer just one of your allegations. If you want answers I will give it to yo, if you keep on lying, I will not answer it:

YouTube - There is not a single grammatical mistake in the Qur'an
 
Thank you for your thoughts, Bhagat Singh ji. I don't really compare Jesus and Guru Nanak in the way that one would hold one up next to the other to see which one is better. I do believe that Jesus probably existed due to the fact that there is quite a bit of historical evidence that he did. The manner in which I think about the messages of Jesus and Guru Nanak being similar is that, having grown up in Christianity I had seen at an early age that the message of Jesus was different than the message of Christianity and that the message of Jesus was love for God, kindness and charity in your life, compassion and constant prayer and reverence for God. I was never satisfied with Christianity due to it's exclusive nature, and I always felt that Jesus probably wouldn't have liked it much either. When I found Sikhi and started reading the message of Guru Nanak I started to fall in love with him and found many of his words and teachings rang very true and comforting in my heart. And many of them were so similar to the teachings of Jesus I had learned as a child that they were very familiar to me. Guru Nanak has helped me also confirm the truth of many of the things I had learned through the message of Jesus and in that way has allowed me to love him as well, and also to be able to accept Christianity in a way I really couldn't before. That is, with more compassion for the foolishness of humans that take a pure message and try to own it and in the process turn it into something it was never meant to be.

When I am meditating or praying or listening to Kirtan or spiritual songs I often imagine Guru Nanak sitting with Jesus, Buddha, and many of the other messengers, teachers, and/or prophets sent to us by God. In my mind they are so above our limited understanding of who is right or wrong or better or higher or lower. Oh Nanak, no one is high or low, they seem to say.

And they all sit together in peace.

But that is my own understanding and is not meant to be offensive. I don't believe that Guru Nanak was actually and physically God though, and I know some Sikhs do. I don't mean this as an offense and I don't expect others to believe as I do. This is how God reveals truth to me for my life and my understanding.

Respect!

Caroline
 

kay

SPNer
So now you are going to accuse me of lying? Is that your response to the facts presented?

you mentioned about Quran instructors muslims to kill any non muslims, which is false. You are saying big bang has been disproven! LOL.

You are talking about gramatical mistakes! LOL!

you are saying there is no similarity with kabaa and orbits of planets and stars, again LOL.

thats why I am accusing of lying, i could be wrong, it could be your misunderstand. I do have to intellectual to say your are wrong when you are wrong, do you?

if not just forget it. bye.
 

kay

SPNer
So that's why you became muslim? You don't want to take any chances and miss spot in paradise.
As per your version of islam, anybody who does not consider Mohamad as prophet will go to hell, even though he obeys every command of God, lives a pious life, do charity, remembers Lord for every breathing moment.
You look more committed to Mohamad than Allah.

what if its true, he is a true messenger and you are rejecting him. So what then do you expect from God?
 
you mentioned about Quran instructors muslims to kill any non muslims, which is false. You are saying big bang has been disproven! LOL.

You are talking about gramatical mistakes! LOL!

you are saying there is no similarity with kabaa and orbits of planets and stars, again LOL.

You dont realise somthing, you could regret big time.

just forget it. bye.


what happened to atoms? do you not wish to talk to me about atoms anymore? thats rude.

we already addressed the planets and stars issue... the fact that planets rotate around the sun anticlockwise and muslims around the Kabaa is pure coincidence 50/50 chance (its like winning a coin toss).

Kay why don’t you debate with me instead…im more fun, neh?



Exhibit A
figure16.gif



Electrons first fill a 1S orbital (as shown in exhibit A top)= maximum of 2 electrons can be found in this orbital (which is an energy state) spinning in opposite direction around their axis.

If you energize an electron it will jump to the next energy level, which is 2S. If you keep energizing, it will jump to 2P (as shown bellow…notice that the 2P energy state can house 6 electrons in x,y, and z plane)…if you continue to energize then the electron can jump to 3s, 3p, 3d……(and so on…the higher energy orbitals are further from the nucleus and can house more electrons… via mathematical theory)

It is important to notice that these shells are probabilities of where the electron can exist at any given moment.


Exhibit B
this picture is available on wikipedia...under Quantum mechanics.

HAtomOrbitals.png


Caption: The wavefunctions of an electron in a hydrogen atom possessing definite energy (increasing downward: n = 1, 2, 3, ...) and angular momentum (increasing across: s, p, d,...). Brighter areas correspond to higher probability density for a position measurement. Wavefunctions like these are directly comparable to Chladni's figures of acoustic modes of vibration in classical physics and are indeed modes of oscillation as well: they possess a sharp energy and thus a keen frequency. The angular momentum and energy are quantized, and only take on discrete values like those shown (as is the case for resonant frequencies in acoustics).

Translation of diagram:
They took a standard hydrogen atom with a single electron (quadrant S1 on the diagram) energized it (via irradiation) to different energy levels…so that it can reside on different energy shells N=1 (the first and lowest energy shell possible, top left), 2 (the second energy shell, medial left), 3 (the third energy shell, bottom left).
The center is the nucleus and the electron can reside anywhere along that field in orange (the lighter the orange the less the probability of the electron presence…this is known as an electron cloud, scientist will call it an MO diagram)



TRANSLATION FOR YOU KAY:
Electrons exist as waves...quantified by a resonance frequency...there presence around the nucleus can only be determined through probabilities (they cannot even be expressed as particles)

so what is rotating around what?

rotation around anything would leave an atom unstable...its electron cloud would collapse as it radiates energy. You have to remember that electrons are held in place by electrostatic forces NOT gravitational forces...what happens when electrostatic forces move around each other? They create a magnetic field and dissipate energy through that field...so a moving orbit is theoretically IMPOSSIBLE because it would dissipate energy from the atom!


Exhibit C
Helium_atom_with_charge-smaller.jpg


this is a Erwin Schrodinger atomic model of helium…the electrons are not represented as particles but as waves suspended in their respective orbital shells. They exist everywhere along the wave at any given time. SO Translatedà The wave is the electron!!!!!!!

If there are any more questions I could answer…please feel free to ask. However, you must note, I cannot address, rectify or disprove irrational convictions.

Its important that you and hopefully the larger muslim community accept modern science…it’s the future!
 

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