General You Won't Believe This. Disturbing Videos!

[Sinister]

To Anoop and Caramelchocolate.

I feel sorry too all the Vegans out their!!! their sooo blinded!

What about killing animals for medicine (how many people got the flu shot?) ....did you know Vaccines are made in eggs?? do you have any idea how many human lives this shot saves each year?
what about taking pancreas derived insulin from the pig gut, so that my diabetic dad can stay alive????
How many people sit on leather coaches or where leather shoes, silk shirts/suits or have feathered pillows or..... eat honey....list goes on and on.

Killing animals is unavoidable!!!!! its part of our natural world, its a part of life!!! YOU CANNOT STOP IT AND YOU CANNOT AVOID IT!
and in now way did our guru's refuse this notion (ei: they hunted animals as well for food)

Vijaydeep Singh has made an excellent point. Everything we eat; be it roti and daal or fish and chips it all involves killing/murdering/torturing some species or another along the way.

Do you guys value plant life or animal life? They are both equally sacred; WHY SHOULD WE DESCRIMINATE BETWEEN THE TWO. I thought Sikhi was about eliminating descriminations but here we are creating them!!!

Meat has played an essential role in human history and will in the future as well.

If you want to waste your time to practice some pseudo-hinduistic form of ahimsa (that has no basis in sikh faith) then go ahead its a personal choice... but that does not make you any better or morally superior than someone who is nonveg and it gives no one the right too bash those sikhs that enjoy a good home cooked steak dinner!

Sinister hungry,
me go eat cow now (lol)

 

[J.A.T.T]

"The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat." - Guru Granth Sahib (Page 1289)

 

[Randip Singh]

I'll post this again, just incase some people didn't understand last time. Sikhism makes no distinction between the life of an animal,plant or rock. Destruction of like is una voidable

Page 176


QUOTE
ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
गउड़ी गुआरेरी महला ५ ॥
ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:


ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥
कई जनम भए कीट पतंगा ॥
ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;


ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥
कई जनम गज मीन कुरंगा ॥
ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.


ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥
कई जनम पंखी सरप होइओ ॥
ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.


ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥
कई जनम हैवर ब्रिख जोइओ ॥१॥
ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o. ||1||
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||


ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
मिलु जगदीस मिलन की बरीआ ॥
mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.


ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
चिरंकाल इह देह संजरीआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||


ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥
कई जनम सैल गिरि करिआ ॥
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;


ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥
कई जनम गरभ हिरि खरिआ ॥
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;


ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
कई जनम साख करि उपाइआ ॥
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;


ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
लख चउरासीह जोनि भ्रमाइआ ॥२॥
lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa. ||2||
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||


ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥
साधसंगि भइओ जनमु परापति ॥
saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.


If you find eating meat cruel then don't eat it. If you don't find it cruel then ok. What you shouldn't do is go round preaching like a bunch of hypocrits that vegetarianism is somehow less cruel than meat eating.

 

[Rajwinder]

My view :

This post starts with a DOG / Cat cruelty video , I think any body who will see that video will get shocked. But imagine if we see a video of a "Jatt harvesting wheat on visakhi " I mean to say CUTTING PLANTS IN PIECES ... Guys i think any body will feel joyful ;-) .. So the point it what leading us to what ??? Imagine a person who can kill Dog/ Cat like that do u think they will hesitate killing the human ??? I dont think so ! So guys practically killing animals like that increase brutality but killing plants wouldn't ! And btw if we kill plants we should grow them too ... we eat wheat infact i would say we CUT IT BRUIT LY but we grow it once we are done ... do we do the same with animals ???? I dont think ... We eat one "Murgi" in a beautiful restaurant but do we think of balancing that loss ??
So my view is we need to keep balance in the life cycle ! AND we should not grow brutality in this world !

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

We can grow Murgi in poultray farms.The thing is that plant are so helpless that we can not see then attempt to save themselves,same state can be given to animals after sedating them.

 

[Randip Singh]

My view :

This post starts with a DOG / Cat cruelty video , I think any body who will see that video will get shocked. But imagine if we see a video of a "Jatt harvesting wheat on visakhi " I mean to say CUTTING PLANTS IN PIECES ... Guys i think any body will feel joyful ;-) .. So the point it what leading us to what ??? Imagine a person who can kill Dog/ Cat like that do u think they will hesitate killing the human ??? I dont think so ! So guys practically killing animals like that increase brutality but killing plants wouldn't ! And btw if we kill plants we should grow them too ... we eat wheat infact i would say we CUT IT BRUIT LY but we grow it once we are done ... do we do the same with animals ???? I dont think ... We eat one "Murgi" in a beautiful restaurant but do we think of balancing that loss ??
So my view is we need to keep balance in the life cycle ! AND we should not grow brutality in this world !

2 + 2 = 5 then hey?

What about Surgeons who cut up people and disembowl them all day long....shouldn't they be the cruellest of all?

2 + 2 does not equal 5 my friend.

Just because a plant cannot squeel like a pig it does not make is a lesser form of life. According to the above Tukh we are taught to value human life above all....be that plant, animal or rock.

I may eat meat occaisionally, especially when competing in sports, but I hate the idea of factory farming. I hate the idea of animals being treated cruely. I hate the idea of plants being force fed chemicals and grown unaturally. I hate the idea of the way we force soil unnaturally to grow more than it should.

this is how Guru ji describes the treatment of plants....with abject pain....

Page 142 Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
मः १ ॥
mehlaa 1.
First Mehl:

ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਟਿਆ ਕਟਿ ਕੁਟਿ ਬਧਾ ਪਾਇ ॥
वेखु जि मिठा कटिआ कटि कुटि बधा पाइ ॥
vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,

ਖੁੰਢਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਮਲ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
खुंढा अंदरि रखि कै देनि सु मल सजाइ ॥
khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.

ਰਸੁ ਕਸੁ ਟਟਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਪੈ ਤੈ ਵਿਲਲਾਇ ॥
रसु कसु टटरि पाईऐ तपै तै विललाइ ॥
ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.

ਭੀ ਸੋ ਫੋਗੁ ਸਮਾਲੀਐ ਦਿਚੈ ਅਗਿ ਜਾਲਾਇ ॥
भी सो फोगु समालीऐ दिचै अगि जालाइ ॥
bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.

ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਠੈ ਪਤਰੀਐ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਆਇ ॥੨॥
नानक मिठै पतरीऐ वेखहु लोका आइ ॥२॥
naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay. ||2||
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||

If our Guru's are describing the pain of plants, then who are we to argue?

This is why I always buy Organic or Free Range.

Avoid unnecessary cruelty in ALL aspects of your life, and do not think by being a Vegetarian you are somehow being any less cruel than a meat eater.

 

[Rajwinder]

Well take the sharp and delicate operation blade from a surgeaon and give him a big knife and lets see how he kills a human ...

Then I think if we get the human life after going through the cycle of 84 lakh lifes then there should be something special about human life ... so why not keep it at the top?

About " Arguing on what guru's said " I think if we have understoof what is written in SGGS ji then there should not be any need of these forums. Actually i think we are not arguing but trying to figure out what actually they meant !

 

[kds1980]

rajwinder ji what about the male calves castrated and forced to plough fields or pull load for their entire life with farmers hitting sticks in their private parts.what about the buffaloes tied in small sheds for their entire
forcing to produce as much milk as they can and their calves dieing of starvation.we humans having been using animals for thousands of years and it involve cruelity.the only thing we should avoid is to give unneccessary pain to the animals because we can't stop using them.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
We get human life by will of Akal,85 laacs is more to do with Hindus,Well if Akal want say in the case of Guru Dustdaman was reborn as Man only.

And we have same soul as in plant or animal,Sometime say in the case of 1857 freedom fighter Babu Kuwar Singh Ji of Bihar/Jharkhand,he was saved by cutting his hand by swrod as bullet it hit that.

 

[Rajwinder]

So can we conclude it on "we should avoid givng pain to the animals / plants as much as we can.. WE cant stop this completly though ! "

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

till we have term we with us, as we are the doer and can do or can not do,we have to go by the thuing that we are in duality and ego.

 

[British_Communist]

It is disgusting the terrible things that many animals go through everyday, through experiments, torture, being skinned alive and general mal-treatment, all at the expense of human greed and ignorance. I myself am a Vegitarian and i am currently trying to adapt to a Vegan diet. Surely if someone eats meat, it doesn't stop them from being shocked at the terrible conditions that animals have to put up with, even if they do eat them. Many of my friends eat meat and i do not hold it against them, i have my opinions and they have theirs. My main reason for not eating meat is the fact that i am pro-animal rights, but also health reasons (i have a heart condition) and because i don't like the taste of meat play a large part aswell. Each to their own, if someone wants to eat meat so be it, if they don't want to eat meat so be it.

 

[CaramelChocolate]

It is disgusting the terrible things that many animals go through everyday, through experiments, torture, being skinned alive and general mal-treatment, all at the expense of human greed and ignorance. I myself am a Vegitarian and i am currently trying to adapt to a Vegan diet. Surely if someone eats meat, it doesn't stop them from being shocked at the terrible conditions that animals have to put up with, even if they do eat them. Many of my friends eat meat and i do not hold it against them, i have my opinions and they have theirs. My main reason for not eating meat is the fact that i am pro-animal rights, but also health reasons (i have a heart condition) and because i don't like the taste of meat play a large part aswell. Each to their own, if someone wants to eat meat so be it, if they don't want to eat meat so be it.

To be honest, I don't think it is about opinions and letting the meat eating murders get on with it... my words may seem harsh, but what they are doing is harsh. I do not see meat eaters as having an opinion... at the end of the day, I believe slaughter and murder is wrong, meat eating cannot be brushed to one side as it as a thing that violates the right to life of another being. Out of all my ethical standards vegetarianism is the one that I would want to become law. All the other stuff - premarital intercourse etc. involves the individual and involves choices. What choice does the animal have when being murdered?
Eating meat is simply UNFORGIVABLE and barbaric as far as I am concerned.

 

[kds1980]

caramel do you eat only organic food if not then you are also on the list of murderers.for growing vegetarian food millions of harmful insects as well as harmless insects are killed by using pesticides.200 years ago we were not using pesticides then why to use it now.

if you drink milk then you in the list of people who give sufferings to the animals.just take a look at the following site

http://www.unhappycows.com/

 

[British_Communist]

To be honest, I don't think it is about opinions and letting the meat eating murders get on with it... my words may seem harsh, but what they are doing is harsh. I do not see meat eaters as having an opinion... at the end of the day, I believe slaughter and murder is wrong, meat eating cannot be brushed to one side as it as a thing that violates the right to life of another being. Out of all my ethical standards vegetarianism is the one that I would want to become law. All the other stuff - premarital intercourse etc. involves the individual and involves choices. What choice does the animal have when being murdered?
Eating meat is simply UNFORGIVABLE and barbaric as far as I am concerned.

Of course meat eating is barbaric and of course it is morally wrong, but i prefer not to enforce my opinions on others in a social ground like this, if an argument is put forward i will inform others of my opinions. Meat eating in my opinion is against natural living, we live in a society where one can sustain healthy (sometimes Healthier living than most) living through diets which do not lead to the suffering or consumption of other living creatures. Meat eating is humanities greed and need to establish dominance over nature itself - "By our actions we betray, the instincts in our race, by our blindness and stupidity, we kill everything". Believe me my friend, i have been pro-animal rights for years and i have been to many protests, but when i am put in a social ground like a forum or amongst friends i try my best not to argue, put my opinion forward yes, but i know it is extremely hard to stop a meat eater from eating meat, it is up to research and study on an individual level which causes one to eat or not eat meat. I made that decision long ago and have never ate meat since.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Das supports wild life protection and last monday only visited Rajaji National Park in North India,where he could see jungle fowl,pea fowl,Spotted dear,Wild Boar.

but could only get the pugmarks and dung of Wild Tusker(elephant) and no signs of other big Fours ie Tiger,Leoprad,Sloth Bear and Himalayan Black bear.

whjy das worte thing thing,In Jungle ecology we have carinvores and ominvores both Eating meat and killing herbivores.

We protect carinovrese and let them take thier pray as it is form of natirual eco system.Then i urban ecosystem we can be humane to kill animal as in India we do Jhatka way to kill animals(to se it we can visit amritworld.com and sarbloh.info).

incidently about 1000 years ago ecosystem in scotland and other large parts of great britain was damaged. Das found during his stay in Uk about unattural quelling of deers some of them were introduced from outside,by humans.

Someone planeed to reintroduc Wolf,Black bear and bission in highlands but animal right people oppsed him.
Das can just say one thing that in wild predator parys on weak and sick animal as they are easy pray and healthy run away,by this they in fact prevent epidemic to wipe out whole the popultaion.So predator are must to preotect the native speices.

Say in UK already we have lost native red squireel to Amriacan Gray Squril.Such things are not good for ecology.Same we can say may apply to urban ecology.Anyway man is part of whole composite ecolgoy in biosphere.