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mkm

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Mar 1, 2008
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Re: Sikh Names

Mkm Ji,

What do you understand by the meaning of the vaak about six chakras ?

ਉਲਟਤ ਪਵਨ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਖਟੁ ਭੇਦੇ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ ॥
I turned my breath inwards, and pierced through the six chakras of the body, and my awareness was centered on the Primal Void of the Absolute Lord.

Devotee Kabir - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

Please give your views.


VEER JI

I do not have that kind of deep knowledge. I checked on Gurugranthdarpan.com. Doctor Sahib Singh ji says that the actual meaning conveyed is that when totally tuned to Waheguru experience of Yogi's chakras is experienced. You can check on it too.
 

pk70

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Re: Sikh Names

namjapji

Osho was brilliant, grasped what he read but totally bankrupt when it comes to originality.
He was just a master of words. Poor guy talks about Guru ji's mind missing "birth place" during last hour, you can understand how much he had understanding of Guru Nanak. Zen meditation is not different than Yogis Guru talked about.
I think mkn can learn more from Dr sahib Singh than these guys.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Re: Sikh Names

But Balbir Singh is learning tremendously fast from Zen, I know it eventhough he will deny it.

Pk70 Ji, how do you know if the glass is half full or half empty ?
Perception viewpoint. Nature is neither good nor bad, it's neutral and detached. Be like the water which moulds itself - takes the shape of its container. Then you will be the blessed person.

Kabeer wrote, ....har jan aisa chahiye, jio paani sarbang.

These are stages of unfoldment.
 

pk70

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Re: Sikh Names

namjap"
Pk70 Ji, how do you know if the glass is half full or half empty ?
namjap Ji
When filling in action occurs, glass filling is clear and can be said" glass is half full." When filling act is stopped the visible emptiness is noticed and it can be said" it is half empty".

Perception viewpoint. Nature is neither good nor bad, it's neutral and detached. Be like the water which moulds itself - takes the shape of its container. Then you will be the blessed person.
When one gets in quagmire, there are few chances to get out.

Kabeer wrote, ....har jan aisa chahiye, jio paani sarbang."
Kabir ji is asking us to realize His creation and stay in there, dont see Him out of His creation. Harjan sees nothing around but HIM
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Re: Sikh Names

Intelligent people know others.
Enlightened people know themselves.
(Tao Te Ching)
 

Astroboy

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Re: Sikh Names

In ancient times there were great Taoist Sages.
Their way of living was so deep, so subtle, it cannot be directly explained.
Instead, here is how they looked:
Cautious, as if crossing the ford of a stream in Winter
Alert, as if surrounded by danger
Polite, as if they were always a guest
Yielding, like ice that is on the verge of melting
Sincere, like an uncut block of wood
Receptive, like a valley
Opaque, like muddy water
(Q:)
Who can wait quietly for muddy water to slowly settle and become clear?
Who can continue to calmly live, and so experience nature's constant, slow growth?
(A:)
People who follow the Tao do not desire excess to be full.
People who do not desire excess have unseen energy that constantly invigorates.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Re: Sikh Names

Sikhism is a religion which will compel one to study every philosophy of the world without which one cannot truly understand the teachings of SGGS.
~namjap~
 

spnadmin

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Re: Sikh Names

Sikhism is a religion which will compel one to study every philosophy of the world without which one cannot truly understand the teachings of SGGS.
~namjap~

I am finding this to be true!!!!! Before, in my previous life, I was never that interested in religion. I just enjoyed people I came into contact with -- Muslims, Hindus, animists, Mormons. They were in my life -- maybe God sent them maybe God wasn't that much of a micromanager -- not important -- they were all of them simply good company with fascinating stories to tell. Many of them are still in my life.

Then along comes Sikhi, and these connections take on so much greater importantce And I have to stay up sometimes until 2 in the morning to read about this in Sufism or that in Buddhism just to feel better grounded in various things. To understand how Sikhi is unique but also to understand what Sikhi shares. To understand other people and what makes them tick.
 

pk70

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Re: Sikh Names

Namjap
Quote
n ancient times there were great Taoist Sages.
Their way of living was so deep, so subtle, it cannot be directly explained.
Instead, here is how they looked:
Cautious, as if crossing the ford of a stream in Winter
Alert, as if surrounded by danger
Polite, as if they were always a guest
Yielding, like ice that is on the verge of melting
Sincere, like an uncut block of wood
Receptive, like a valley
Opaque, like muddy water
(Q
Who can wait quietly for muddy water to slowly settle and become clear?
The one who is tuned to HIS Ordinance and becomes participant as HE guides. World is created for us not against us, it is we who look at that way.
Whatever is seen or heard is in the order of Nature; so is the consciousness of fear and comfort…” Asa Dee Vaar Mehla 1
Who can continue to calmly live, and so experience nature's constant, slow growth?
Only one who understands after analyzing self that incongruity is within, the rest is HIS ordinance, oppositions are to pass test in pursuit of becoming worthy who created the world
“ Says Nanak, the True one is looking on’ to Him every thing rings as it happens’
also
“ When God in His mercy sends Grace to man. He puts him to his work” Asa Dee Vaar Mehla 1.
(A
clip_image001.gif

People who follow the Tao do not desire excess to be full.
Only if they become aware Tao’s wisdom has application on every aspects of life. Merely becoming indifferent to all which is visible may trigger emotional depression, its called introversion without a goal. Sikhism sets goal first before taking you to that height.
People who do not desire excess have unseen energy that constantly invigorates.
To live one needs to have desire, what kind is desire is longed leads to that kind of goal.
__________________
namjapji Quote”Sikhism is a religion which will compel one to study every philosophy of the world without which one cannot truly understand the teachings of SGGS.”

Respectfully I disagree. Sikhism also says attaining lot of wisdom from all other sources leads to no where
Please read on
“we may read and read and make cartloads with books or pack carvans with them.
We may read and read and load boats with books or fill cellars with them. We may read for all the years and months that are given to us,
We may read as we live and breathe;
Yet, says nanak, there is only one truth that matters, all else is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Asa Dee vaar Mehla 1

I kept reading Krishna Murti, Osho, Tao, Budhism, Maxism and some articles on Judaism. When I came back to Gurbani, I felt I wish I spent all that time on understanding Gurbani. Just sharing what I felt. Echo is heard only, can never be found regardless how sweet it could be. I can write pages describing emotions, reasoning, abyss within me keeps deepening . As said before, my mind gave in to Gurus and Bhagatas experience.
Aad0002Quote
To understand other people and what makes them tick.

To understand others, we need to understand what guru ji is saying about” Nanak Hukma je bujha t haomai kahe n koye Jap Ji. They differ as per His ordinance, they hate the way He wants, they laugh at others as He wants, They kill, this is their destiny as per His Will.
Another reason, Sikhs use weapons only for self defense otherwise “violence” is not advocated by Gurbani in any case. To know others one need to analyze oneself, Here is Guru ji’s support
“ aap mooa mun(mann), mun te jaaniaa 11, nazr bhaee ghar ghar jania 11 Gouri mehla 1 SGGS 153( in essence: when feeling of “me” dies, He becomes known within, As He bestows upon us His bliss, He is seen in every body)

aad002 Ji, actually I must state that you were more right on it when you used a beautiful and powerful word” lagn” With lagn and Guru teachings journey is chartered with a target, rest becomes history.

 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Re: Sikh Names

Who can wait quietly for muddy water to slowly settle and become clear?
The one who is tuned to HIS Ordinance and becomes participant as HE guides. World is created for us not against us, it is we who look at that way.
Whatever is seen or heard is in the order of Nature; so is the consciousness of fear and comfort…” Asa Dee Vaar Mehla 1

Very well said, PK70 Ji. Nature is created for our benefit. Nature teaches us patience.


ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੈ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਏਕ ॥
ब्रहम गिआनी कै धीरजु एक ॥
Barahm gi*ānī kai ḏẖīraj ėk.
The God-conscious being has a steady patience,
Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
 
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pk70

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Re: Sikh Names

namjap quote
PK70 Ji. Nature is created for our benefit. Nature teaches us patience.
namjapji, I am still learning desperately, failures are becoming lessons, I want to thank you in way to remind me to be where I want to be.
 
Feb 14, 2006
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Re: Sikh Names

Though the question is not directed to me yet I think to offer a small clarification. Kundalini jagran through breath control was widely practiced by yogis and sidhas. Many sikh- preachers still tell these things in the context ot Sidh Ghosthi. There are many recordings available on the net.

Kudalini awakening leads to release of energy. By following the method of breath control, called Pranayaam also, it takes lot of time as one has to start from the lowest most chakra called as mool chakra. It is from this that one graduates to the highest level to crown chakra.

Sikhism has not approved of it; instead it is recommended the Naam practice and it is stated in bani that one can have the kundalini awakening by 'naam' and by eulogizing the Creator through keertans etc. in the sangat.

This kind of raj yog was recommended by Swami Vivekanand as well but sikhs do not practice it as a part of religion.One may do it for the purpose of mantaining good health etc.

ਰਸਨਾ ਜਪੀਐ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮ ॥
rasanaa japeeai eaek naam ||
With your tongue, chant the Name of the One Lord.

ਈਹਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਘਨਾ ਆਗੈ ਜੀਅ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
eehaa sukh aanandh ghanaa aagai jeea kai sang kaam ||1|| rehaao ||
In this world, it shall bring you peace, comfort and great joy; hereafter, it shall go with your soul, and shall be of use to you. ||1||Pause||

ਕਟੀਐ ਤੇਰਾ ਅਹੰ ਰੋਗੁ ॥
katteeai thaeraa ahan rog ||
The disease of your ego shall be eradicated.

ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗੁ ॥੧॥
thoon gur prasaadh kar raaj jog ||1||
By Guru's Grace, practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||

ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਨਿ ਚਾਖਿਆ ॥
har ras jin jan chaakhiaa ||
Those who taste the sublime essence of the Lord

ਤਾ ਕੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਲਾਥੀਆ ॥੨॥
thaa kee thrisanaa laathheeaa ||2||
have their thirst quenched. ||2||

ਹਰਿ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
har bisraam nidhh paaeiaa ||
Those who have found the Lord, the Treasure of peace,

ਸੋ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਕਤ ਹੀ ਧਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
so bahur n kath hee dhhaaeiaa ||3||
shall not go anywhere else again. ||3||

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ॥
har har naam jaa ko gur dheeaa ||
Those, unto whom the Guru has given the Lord's Name, Har, Har

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਗਇਆ ॥੪॥੮॥੧੪੬॥
naanak thaa kaa bho gaeiaa ||4||8||146||
- O Nanak, their fears are removed. ||4||8||146||
~SGGS Ji p. 211


What I have been discussing is not Kundalini yoga. It is an explanation of the function and purpose of Naam Abhiyaas. Because the Naam opens our chakras and unlocks our dasm duar this facillitates what is also known as kundalini awakening. But the practice is not Kundalini yoga, it is the practice3 of Raja Yoga which Guruji taught and why it appears in Gurbani and supportive rehitnamay. This is also taught by Gursikhs like Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji. Sadly, a majority of the Panth does not read Gurbani carefully and has lost this metaphysical knowledge.

I can assure you, sitting in a Gurdwara, listening to kirtan, in the sangat... will have no power to liberate you. Waiting on Guruji's grace will not achieve the desired effect. What is desired isn't simply converting to, believing in, or outwardly practicing a religion. None of those things will ever lead to transformation of consciousness. It's absolutely no different from the superficial practices and lack of understanding which is also seen in other religions. Contrary to many people's desire for simplicity, ignorance does not lead to bliss.

What makes Sikhism different? Is it the philosophy? Is it the kirtan? Is it the bani? Is it sitting in Gurdwara with the sangat? Think about it. Would any of these things alone have the power to transform anybody? So I'm trying to point out a common weakness in modern Sikh philosophy which stems from disconnection from the metaphysical knowledge of purataan times, and a complete loss of contact with the practices which explain HOW the Naam, the Vaheguru Gurmantara, the pranayam practice of Naam abhiyaas, the Naam simran, the amrit vela, the Khande Ki Pahul Gur-deekhya, keeping the sadhana of rehit Maryada are all practices of Raja Yoga to facillitate the locking of the nine gates through which praan escapes the body and entangles us in the sansaara, and redirect upwards to unlock the tenth gate and expand beyond limits of the human brain the perception, the merging with Vaheguru.

ਜਾ ਕਉ ਗੁਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਦੇ ॥
jaa ko gur har manthra dhae ||
Those unto whom the Guru gives the Mantra of the Lord's Name

ਸੋ ਉਬਰਿਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਤੇ ॥੩॥
so oubariaa maaeiaa agan thae ||3||
are saved from the fire of Maya. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 211

That's a tall order! But none of this has to do with yoga as practiced by another guru, another school of thought, another religion. We have our own Living Guru! But if people constantly diminish the explanation which is in Gurbani, in supportive rehitnamay, in writings of Gursikhs like Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, then I suppose we can all sit in sangat and wait...for these metaphysical changes to happen. But I think it's going to be a long wait. If we are Guruji's chelas, then we practice what Guruji has given us, and we accept this process (cooperative effort with Guru) is required to free us from bodily sansaaric entanglement.

Every human being has chakras, as they have a body and chakrs are part of the human body. Whether or not you have understanding of the nature of the chakrs, whether or not you accept the energy must be redirected upwards piercing through blocks and bondages made from lifetimes of negative patterns and habits is individual. Whether or not some yogi practicing some siddha yoga or kundalini yoga or hatha yoga is spending a long time trying to raise the energy is not at issue here. This metaphysical physiology of human beings is expressly recorded here in Shabad Guruji Maharaaj. So Guruji is telling us that it has validity otherwise it wouldn't be in Gurbani. And if we all have this metaphysical physiology, there must be some practices we can do to cleanse the inner blockages and defilements which prevent our spiritual perception. If people neglect to do this spiritual work which encompasses the body-mind-soul, we cannot change. We stay stuck. We stay with energy escaping through the nine sense openings to perceive only the sensual world.

If you ever wondered what is wrong with our Sikhi, what is wrong with our sangat, what is wrong with our leaders, what is wrong with our world...this is it. We are all in bondage. We are slaves to ancient negative patterns of thinking and perceiving and feeling and responding. (I don't mean this in a critical way to say people are bad, but for explanation, the people around us have there own karam and are stuck. How can simply associating with these people as stuck as we are ever help to liberate us?) So often people do complain, these say "Jatha xyz is unloving, I've met more spiritual monas and even met better sinners!" Why do people say and observe these kind of disappointing things? Because the people in this world are lost. We are all entangled in bondages we don't even notice. Just being born in Sikh religion, or converting to Sikh religion, or getting amrit chukk is NOT of itself enough to facillitate the kind of change in a person's body-heart-mind-soul-consciousness to make a difference and start unlocking those ties that bind us to the sensual world. Just going to Gurdwara, singing kirtan, reading Gurbani, doing seva, wearing kakkars is NOT going to make you the Guru's chela.

I'm trying to explain that something more which is required, and explain from Gurbani the metaphysical process which must occur with the whole package of sadhana practices given by Guruji if anyone is to 1. be delivered from stuckness to sansara (embracing the world from root chakr) 2. be cleansed from inner defilements and obscurations (bandhas and kaleshas which obstruct the energy at certain chakrs from past actions and ignorance) 3. to overcome our inner 5 demons, the weaknesses of human nature which unlock the gates of hell and bring evil to earth. Without this, we can't change, we are too corrupted to jump to a condition of holiness. First we need cleansing, which of necessity is tackling issues at a psycho-spiritual level of mind and defilements of intent and obscurations of negative thinking patterns. Otherwise we can never proceed past self-delusion. And this is why so many fake babas and sants are around. They get half-baked so to speak, achieving a degree of spiritual insight but failing to conquer the impurities of consciousness. And this is why there are so many disappointing scandals in the world where religious teachers and leaders all fall down and do bad things in the name of religion.

How can any of this occur if people are afraid of the word "yoga?" And associate it with a whole bunch of things like Kundalini yoga, brahminvaad, Osho, riddh siddhia, black magic, fake babas and sants and whatever? Just investigate and study the Gurbani, the katha from Gursikhs, the purataan historic references, and you will see this is Guruji's yoga (means of uniting the sikh-chela with Vaheguru). Sikhism is not mere philosophy, not mere cultural identity, not mere shell. It is a system of Living practice with a Living Master which can led to 1. mukti 2. samadhi 3. merging. If your religion can't change you, if all it does is go from abc to rocket science with no prescription how to get from A to Z, if you think it's about sitting around hoping for the best and calling it grace...we're never going to get there. And if we can't get there, how can anyone say Sikh religion has anything to offer the world which is stumbling in the dark with enough problems already than to add a fake cure. How can anyone say "Sikhism has not approved of... the practices which are in Gurbani?" Is this because we perceive as people that no one around us, committee members, people who go to Gurdwara year in and year out, themselves don't recognize the very practices which are in Gurbani and belong to purataan Gursikhi? We don't need to go to Osho, or Zen, or Yogi Bhajan or anybody. Of course knowledge is good to have, but our Sikhi is rich beyond anything they have to offer. But it is sad that Guruji who was recognized as a Yoga Master has left a legacy of teaching where people don't even understand ancient and basic yogic concepts such as dasm duar, Naad, sass giras simran, amrit vela...and think it must relate to something like brahmanvaad when you bring their attention to it. Our we losing hold of our Living Guru and His Living practices of spiritual liberation?


ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੋ ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਉਲਘਿ ਪਇਆਣਾ ।
paunu paanee baisantaro dharati akaasu ulaghi paiaanaa|
Gurmukh goes beyond air, water, fire, earth and sky.

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਵਿਰੋਧੁ ਲਘਿ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਹਾਣਾ ।
kaamu krodhu virodhu|aghi|obhu mohu ahankaaru vihaanaa|
Resisting lust and anger he crosses the greed, infatuation and ego.

ਸਤਿ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਰਥੁ ਸੁ ਗਰੰਥੁ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ।
sati santokh daiaa dharamu aradu su garandu panch paravaanaa|
He espouses truth, contentment, compassion, dharma and fortitude.

ਖੇਚਰ ਭੂਚਰ ਚਾਚਰੀ ਉਨਮਨ ਲਘਿ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਬਾਣਾ ।
khaychar bhoochar chaacharee unaman|aghi agochar baanaa|
Getting above of the khechar bhuchar chachar, unman and agochar (all yogic postures) mudras he concentrates upon the One Lord.

ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੋ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਘਨਘੋਰ ਨੀਸਾਣਾ ।
panchaain paramaysaro panch sabad ghanaghor neesaanaa|
He beholds God in five (select persons) and the five sounds of five words become his special marks.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੰਚ ਭੂਆਤਮਾ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧ ਸੁਹਾਣਾ ।
guramukhi panch bhooaatamaa saadhasangati mili saadh suhaanaa|
Antahkaran, the basis of all five external elements is cultivated and cultured by gurmukh in the holy congregation.

ਸਹਜ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਨ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ ॥੫॥
sahaj samaadhi n aavan jaanaa ॥5॥
This way immersing in undisturbed trance he gets liberated from the cycle of transmigration.
Vaar 7 Pauri 5 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji

ਵਿਣੁ ਕਰਮਾ ਕੈਸੇ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰੇ ॥੫॥
vin karamaa kaisae outharas paarae ||5||
Without the karma of good actions, how can you cross over? ||5||

ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਫਟਕ ਬਨਾਈ ਕਾਨਿ ॥
mundhraa fattak banaaee kaan ||
You make ear-rings of glass to wear in your ears.

ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਬਿਗਿਆਨਿ ॥
mukath nehee bidhiaa bigiaan ||
But liberation does not come from learning without understanding.

ਜਿਹਵਾ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਸਾਦਿ ਲਭਾਨਾ ॥
jihavaa eindhree saadh luobhaanaa ||
You are lured by the tastes of the tongue and sex organs.

ਪਸੂ ਭਏ ਨਹੀ ਮਿਟੈ ਨੀਸਾਨਾ ॥੬॥
pasoo bheae nehee mittai neesaanaa ||6||
You have become a beast; this sign cannot be erased. ||6||

ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ ਲੋਗਾ ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ ਜੋਗਾ ॥
thribidhh logaa thribidhh jogaa ||
The people of the world are entangled in the three modes; the Yogis are entangled in the three modes.

ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੈ ਚੂਕਸਿ ਸੋਗਾ ॥
sabadh veechaarai chookas sogaa ||
Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, sorrows are dispelled.

ਊਜਲੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਸੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
oojal saach s sabadh hoe ||
Through the Shabad, one becomes radiant, pure and truthful.

ਜੋਗੀ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੇ ਸੋਇ ॥੭॥
jogee jugath veechaarae soe ||7||
One who contemplates the true lifestyle is a Yogi. ||7||

ਤੁਝ ਪਹਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਤੂ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
thujh pehi no nidhh thoo karanai jog ||
The nine treasures are with You, Lord; You are potent, the Cause of causes.

ਥਾਪਿ ਉਥਾਪੇ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਗੁ ॥
thhaap outhhaapae karae s hog ||
You establish and disestablish; whatever You do, happens.

ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਚੀਤੁ ॥
jath sath sanjam sach sucheeth ||
One who practices celibacy, chastity, self-control, truth and pure consciousness

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੋਗੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਮੀਤੁ ॥੮॥੨॥
naanak jogee thribhavan meeth ||8||2||
- O Nanak, that Yogi is the friend of the three worlds. ||8||2||

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
raamakalee mehalaa 1 ||
Raamkalee, First Mehl:

ਖਟੁ ਮਟੁ ਦੇਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥
khatt matt dhaehee man bairaagee ||
Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind.

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਧੁਨਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਾਗੀ ॥
surath sabadh dhhun anthar jaagee ||
Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within.

ਵਾਜੈ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਲੀਣਾ ॥
vaajai anehadh maeraa man leenaa ||
The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it.

ਗੁਰ ਬਚਨੀ ਸਚਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਪਤੀਣਾ ॥੧॥
gur bachanee sach naam patheenaa ||1||
Through the Guru's Teachings, my faith is confirmed in the True Name. ||1||

ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
praanee raam bhagath sukh paaeeai ||
O mortal, through devotion to the Lord, peace is obtained.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
guramukh har har meethaa laagai har har naam samaaeeai ||1|| rehaao ||
The Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the Gurmukh, who merges in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||Pause||
~SGGS Ji p. 903

~Bhul chak maaf karni ji
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
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Re: Sikh Names

ALL JIO

HERE IS GURU NANAK JI ON YOGA

sUhI mhlw 1 Gru 7
<> siqgur pRswid ] jogu n iKMQw jogu n fMfY jogu n Bsm cVweIAY ] jogu n muMdI mUMif mufwieAY jogu n isM|I vweIAY ] AMjn mwih inrMjin rhIAY jog jugiq iev pweIAY ]1] glI jogu n hoeI ] eyk idRsit kir smsir jwxY jogI khIAY soeI ]1] rhwau ] jogu n bwhir mVI mswxI jogu n qwVI lweIAY ] jogu n dyis idsMqir BivAY jogu n qIriQ nweIAY ] AMjn mwih inrMjin rhIAY jog jugiq iev pweIAY ]2] siqguru BytY qw shsw qUtY Dwvqu vrij rhweIAY ] inJru JrY shj Duin lwgY Gr hI prcw pweIAY ] AMjn mwih inrMjin rhIAY jog jugiq iev pweIAY ]3] nwnk jIviqAw mir rhIAY AYsw jogu kmweIAY ] vwjy bwJhu isM|I vwjY qau inrBau pdu pweIAY ] AMjn mwih inrMjin rhIAY jog jugiq qau pweIAY ]4]1]8] {pMnw 730}
SOOHEE, FIRST MEHL, SEVENTH HOUSE:
ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:
Yoga is not the patched coat, Yoga is not the walking stick. Yoga is not smearing the body with ashes. Yoga is not the ear-rings, and not the shaven head. Yoga is not the blowing of the horn. Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world — this is the way to attain Yoga. || 1 || By mere words, Yoga is not attained. One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same — he alone is known as a Yogi. || 1 || Pause || Yoga is not wandering to the tombs of the dead; Yoga is not sitting in trances. Yoga is not wandering through foreign lands; Yoga is not bathing at sacred shrines of pilgrimage. Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world — this is the way to attain Yoga. || 2 || Meeting with the True Guru, doubt is dispelled, and the wandering mind is restrained. Nectar rains down, celestial music resounds, and deep within, wisdom is obtained. Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world — this is the way to attain Yoga. || 3 || O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive — practice such a Yoga. When the horn is blown without being blown, then you shall attain the state of fearless dignity. Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world — this is the way to attain Yoga. || 4 || 1 || 8 ||

Translation is not perfect but pretty close to the Guru Message. It comes down to battle within, it starts with trying but eventually turns into a natural one(State of a mind). Even in JapJi Sahib, four realms are not addressed as any chakras or energy. Sikhism was and is a for masses, high techniques has no advocacy in any Guru Shabad. References are used just as references are found about Hindu mythology.

Please ponder over what Guru ji is saying in the context of Yoga .Others or mine views are immaterial in context of the above Guru Shabad that directly addresses "YOGA".
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
Re: Sikh Names

It comes down to battle within, it starts with trying but eventually turns into a natural one(State of a mind). Even in JapJi Sahib, four realms are not addressed as any chakras or energy. Sikhism was and is a for masses, high techniques has no advocacy in any Guru Shabad. References are used just as references are found about Hindu mythology.

Please ponder over what Guru ji is saying in the context of Yoga .Others or mine views are immaterial in context of the above Guru Shabad that directly addresses "YOGA".
ਸੂਰ ਸਰੁ ਸੋਸਿ ਲੈ ਸੋਮ ਸਰੁ ਪੋਖਿ ਲੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਰਤੁ ਸੁ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
soor sar sos lai som sar pokh lai jugath kar marath s sanabandhh keejai ||
Heat up the sun energy of the right nostril, and cool down the moon energy of the left nostril; practicing this breath-control, bring them into perfect balance.

ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੧॥
meen kee chapal sio jugath man raakheeai ouddai neh hans neh kandhh shheejai ||1||
In this way, the fickle fish of the mind will be held steady; the swan-soul shall not fly away, and the body-wall will not crumble. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 991
The question seems to be, "what is yoga?" Yoga ever was and always has meant a path or practice to facillitate union with God. And since ancient times and until the present, a Guru was the person uniquely qualified to take the seeker to the God. Not all Guru's are on the same spiritual level. What Gurbani teaches us is that Satguruji Nanak in all His forms is beyond even Hindu devas. Nowhere does Gurbani say, or allude to or suggest that Hindu devas don't exist, or are mere "mythology." It's really shocking that people have a Guru and are so completely dislocated from the history as not to recognize basic role of Guru, basic purpose of Guru, basic process of yoga. Every Guru in existence teaches a form of yoga. That is just arguing with words to say otherwise. Just to grab tuk from Gurbani where Guruji says yoga practices don't lead you to God doesn't mean HIS spiritual path (a form of yoga) doesn't lead to God. It's unimaginable someone would think such would invalidate all the other pauris where Guruji talks about a form of yoga based on the sound current. Why did Satguruji put into Shabad Guru Ji Maharaaj the tuks from Kabir Ji if they serve no purpose or only vague reference to "mythology" and "yogic-Hinduism-brahmanvaad?" It is completely illogical reasoning. Either every word of Gurbani has the power of Gur-shabad-Jyot and is teaching us something about mukti, or not one word of Gurbani has meaning. No one can pick and choose Gurbani like that. And if we can't understand, then we have to acknowledge something is beyond our understanding. Who can say the Gurbani is meaningless because it doesn't fit into our personal frame of reference, or that it is merely historical or "mythological?"
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਇਕ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਾਰੀ ॥੧੨॥
brehamaa bisan mehaes eik moorath aapae karathaa kaaree ||12||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are manifestations of the One God. He Himself is the Doer of deeds. ||12||

ਕਾਇਆ ਸੋਧਿ ਤਰੈ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਆਤਮ ਤਤੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੧੩॥
kaaeiaa sodhh tharai bhav saagar aatham thath veechaaree ||13||
One who purifies his body, crosses over the terrifying world-ocean; he contemplates the essence of his own soul. ||13||

ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਵਿਆ ਗੁਣਕਾਰੀ ॥੧੪॥
gur saevaa thae sadhaa sukh paaeiaa anthar sabadh raviaa gunakaaree ||14||
Serving the Guru, he finds everlasting peace; deep within, the Shabad permeates him, coloring him with virtue. ||14||
~SGGS Ji p. 08
Now the question again, what is yoga? It's completely bizarre to think only hatha yoga asanas (what most people think of) is the only kind of yoga, or to read Gurbani references to metaphysical physiology and somehow think it means Sikhs should get a yoga teacher and do bunch of postures and austerities. Thats completely misinformed. Gurbani is talking about Koran, Vedas, Kateba, and saying all these scriptures and religious paths cannot give you liberation. Gurbani is saying all the tapas, austerities, religious practices, yoga, Hindu rituals will not get you liberation. Gurbani is NOT saying don't follow the path of liberation Guru Nanak gives you. Guruji is giving us a path of liberation, and very clearly it is contra-distinguished from vain rituals, severe austerities, useless studying of scriptures. The path of Guru is called in Gurbani yoga...even in Gurbani. So we must contradistinguish that from other references to yoga. The crucial factor of difference is 1. we have Satguru, 2. we aren't given austerities but middle path as householder, 3. we aren't given postures but we ARE given pranayam Naam abhiyaas and simran meditation on the Naam, and singing kirtan in sadhsangat to attune with the Naam, and keeping the amrit vela to jap the Naam. Clearly Sikhs are given a form of yoga to practice which will reach the God by (unlocking dasm duar having traversed the body chakrs).
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਗ ਸਬਦਿ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਏਕੁ ਮੁਰਾਰੀ ॥੧੭॥
guramukh jog sabadh aatham cheenai hiradhai eaek muraaree ||17||
This is the Yoga of the Gurmukh: Through the Shabad, he understands his own soul, and he enshrines within his heart the One Lord. ||17||

ਮਨੂਆ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਸਬਦੇ ਰਾਤਾ ਏਹਾ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੮॥
manooaa asathhir sabadhae raathaa eaehaa karanee saaree ||18||
Imbued with the Shabad, his mind becomes steady and stable; this is the most excellent action. ||18||

ਬੇਦੁ ਬਾਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਖੰਡੁ ਅਉਧੂ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੧੯॥
baedh baadh n paakhandd aoudhhoo guramukh sabadh beechaaree ||19||
This true hermit does not enter into religious debates or hypocrisy; the Gurmukh contemplates the Shabad. ||19||

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਅਉਧੂ ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੦॥
guramukh jog kamaavai aoudhhoo jath sath sabadh veechaaree ||20||
The Gurmukh practices Yoga - he is the true hermit; he practices abstinence and truth, and contemplates the Shabad. ||20||

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਅਉਧੂ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੧॥
sabadh marai man maarae aoudhhoo jog jugath veechaaree ||21||
One who dies in the Shabad and conquers his mind is the true hermit; he understands the Way of Yoga. ||21||

ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਭਵਜਲੁ ਹੈ ਅਵਧੂ ਸਬਦਿ ਤਰੈ ਕੁਲ ਤਾਰੀ ॥੨੨॥
maaeiaa mohu bhavajal hai avadhhoo sabadh tharai kul thaaree ||22||
Attachment to Maya is the terrifying world-ocean; through the Shabad, the true hermit saves himself, and his ancestors as well. ||22||

ਸਬਦਿ ਸੂਰ ਜੁਗ ਚਾਰੇ ਅਉਧੂ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੩॥
sabadh soor jug chaarae aoudhhoo baanee bhagath veechaaree ||23||
Contemplating the Shabad, you shall be a hero throughout the four ages, O hermit; contemplate the Word of the Guru's Bani in devotion. ||23||
~SGGS Ji p. 908
How can you read it any other way? It's expressly clear and also vaaran of bhai Gurdas Ji sheds the same light on it. One would think Bhai Gurdas Ji who had darshan of 4 forms of Guru and whose own pen scribed the Adi Granth which became Guru, one would think he would know. It's unimaginable to think 300 years later that we know better with modern interpretations, that Bhai Gurdas Ji had it all wrong. That's just not a credible position. For one thing, if Sikhs were NOT intended to be yogi househoulders... why keep the hair? Why tie topknot? Because that is pure metaphysical physiological yogic practice. It serves absolutely no other conceivable purpose...unless you believe it's a Punjabi cultural ritualistic tradition with no practicality at all.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਬਹਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਟਿਕਾਇਆ ॥
sathiguroo parathakh hodhai behi raaj aap ttikaaeiaa ||
The True Guru Himself sat up, and appointed the successor to the Throne of Raja Yoga, the Yoga of Meditation and Success.

ਸਭਿ ਸਿਖ ਬੰਧਪ ਪੁਤ ਭਾਈ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੪॥
sabh sikh bandhhap puth bhaaee raamadhaas pairee paaeiaa ||4||
All the Sikhs, relatives, children and siblings have fallen at the Feet of Guru Ram Das. ||4||

ਅੰਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਮੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਕਰਿਅਹੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥
anthae sathigur boliaa mai pishhai keerathan kariahu nirabaan jeeo ||
Finally, the True Guru said, ""When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.""

ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸਦਿਅਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥
kaeso gopaal panddith sadhiahu har har kathhaa parrehi puraan jeeo ||
Call in the long-haired scholarly Saints of the Lord, to read the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har.
~SGGS Ji p. 923
ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੋ ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਉਲਘਿ ਪਇਆਣਾ ।
paunu paanee baisantaro dharati akaasu ulaghi paiaanaa|
Gurmukh goes beyond air, water, fire, earth and sky.

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਵਿਰੋਧੁ ਲਘਿ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਹਾਣਾ ।
kaamu krodhu virodhu|aghi|obhu mohu ahankaaru vihaanaa|
Resisting lust and anger he crosses the greed, infatuation and ego.

ਸਤਿ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਰਥੁ ਸੁ ਗਰੰਥੁ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ।
sati santokh daiaa dharamu aradu su garandu panch paravaanaa|
He espouses truth, contentment, compassion, dharma and fortitude.

ਖੇਚਰ ਭੂਚਰ ਚਾਚਰੀ ਉਨਮਨ ਲਘਿ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਬਾਣਾ ।
khaychar bhoochar chaacharee unaman|aghi agochar baanaa|
Getting above of the khechar bhuchar chachar, unman and agochar (all yogic postures) mudras he concentrates upon the One Lord.

ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੋ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਘਨਘੋਰ ਨੀਸਾਣਾ ।
panchaain paramaysaro panch sabad ghanaghor neesaanaa|
He beholds God in five (select persons) and the five sounds of five words become his special marks.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੰਚ ਭੂਆਤਮਾ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧ ਸੁਹਾਣਾ ।
guramukhi panch bhooaatamaa saadhasangati mili saadh suhaanaa|
Antahkaran, the basis of all five external elements is cultivated and cultured by gurmukh in the holy congregation.

ਸਹਜ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਨ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ ॥੫॥
sahaj samaadhi n aavan jaanaa ॥5॥
This way immersing in undisturbed trance he gets liberated from the cycle of transmigration.

Vaar 7 Pauri 5 of Vaaran Bhai GurdasJi
Why would Bhai Gurdas of all people be talking about the mudras to block the energy (pran) from escaping the nine holes, and getting above these concentrate on the one Lord, which we must obviously infer relates to the opening of dasm duar...if all this was just mere "Hindu mythology?" Maybe we ourselves are mistaken with those contradictory impressions. Because clearly Gurbani is talking about a practice to cleanse the karam and unite the consciousness with God. And clearly most Sikhs (myself included) are not practicing as intently in the way which would achieve nirvanaa.

"Sikhism was and is a for masses, high techniques has no advocacy in any Guru Shabad."

Oh really? A path of liberation is already made quite simple through technology of sound current. Or perhaps you don't believe in Guru's Shabad? Veerji, people may be simple-minded, but we all have an atma. And the higher consciousness of every living being, including a tree has intuitive perception greater than the literary ignorance of the common uneducated man. We aren't talking about ignorance or that spiritual teachings need to reflect basic ignorance to reach the masses? What would they reach them with? Spiritual teachings must needs reflect a hyperdimensionality which unites this world and the higher realms to be able to deliver anyone out of bondage from this one. If someone is drowning you throw him a rope. But if the rope is as ignorant and stuck as he is, what's the purpose? Like Einstein said, sometimes to solve a complex problem you have to expand to a higher dimension. That's what spirituality is. And thus it is something of an order of complexity beyond even the human brain. Thus spiritual teachings need to be grasped intuitively, by the jeev, not the brain. These teachings in Gurbani are beyond even scientists.
ਸਹਜਿ ਰਤਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
sehaj rathaa boojhai path hoe ||
One who intuitively understands, and is attuned to the Lord, is honored.
~SGGS Ji p. 944
We are talking about intuitive perception. On this level, even a little child can understand Gurbani. Are we to infer that Gurbani is deliberately ignorant to reach the masses? We are still dealing with facillitating a process of liberation which even the greatest Vedic and Buddhist and Western scholars couldn't achieve. Do you think just because someone is lacking in intellectual capacity or (most likely interest) that process of purifying the bondage and knots of lifetimes is just simplistically wiped away by magic because Guru's grace? I find that unbelievable. This is a work so intense that it requires lifetimes to bring someone to spiritual maturity so they are receptive enough to work with Guru and achieve liberation. You are right in a way, it's not a mental process. But people can only communicate through the vehicle of words, language and intellect. What we are describing isn't a PhD in chemistry or physics, but there IS a sophistication, a medicine to what is going on spiritually. But the process occurs without aid of the mind. It occurs with intuitive perception. So yes, an uneducated person can easily be far more spiritually advanced than an intellectual. But, Gurbani is so many levels of understanding. It speaks to a child, and it makes a child of the intellectual. We are all humbled by the grandeur, the depth, and by the glory of Gurbani.

It's funny, but I read the simplest statement by a Zen Master years ago, which was so profound it took an entire book bringing in concepts from astrophysics and other dimensions to explain it. This is a philosophy forum. This is a place where we can examine the mysteries and profundity of Gurbani. But none of this means it is required to be a disciple of a true Guru, or undertake the simple path which Guruji gives His sikhs to obtain enlightenment. But naturally, Gurbani contains the essence of the nirgun and the sargun aspects of the Divine. We would finish ourselves before we could ever comprehend the totality of what is in Gurbani. The path is simple, but even scientists studying DNA will tell you the simplest ideas belie the world's greatest complexity. Gurbani understands the creation. Gurbani understands the anatomy and physiology of the human body AND it's spiritual purpose.
ਗੁਪਤੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
gupathee baanee paragatt hoe ||
The hidden Bani of the Word is revealed.

ਨਾਨਕ ਪਰਖਿ ਲਏ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੫੩॥
naanak parakh leae sach soe ||53||
O Nanak, the True Lord is revealed and known. ||53||

ਸਹਜ ਭਾਇ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
sehaj bhaae mileeai sukh hovai ||
Meeting with the Lord through intuition and love, peace is found.
~SGGS Ji p. 944
"References are used just as references are found about Hindu mythology."

This is a bold statement. First, may I ask you what is mythological about Hindu references in Gurbani. And before you answer, please reflect that Gurbani may be talking about unseen realms and higher dimensional beings which Hindu tradition has described in what is taken to be mythological terminology. This statement above completely discounts anything Gurbani may be saying. We do not presume to speak for Gurbani. We try to understand the depths of Gurbani, and accept that Gurbani may also be saying different things to different people at different times for different purposes, such is the message and power of Living Shabad Guru. But to presume to negate, discredit or invalidate any Gurbani references because someone may not accept, understand or agree with them is somewhat pretentious. Are you saying every reference which can be traced to Hindu religion which is in Gurbani... is mythological, not factual, not real, and therefore to be dismissed and disbelieved? Would you go so far?
ਜੀਅ ਉਪਾਇ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਹਥਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਨਥਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥
jeea oupaae jugath hathh keenee kaalee nathh kiaa vaddaa bhaeiaa ||
You created all beings, and You hold the world in Your Hands; what greatness is it
to put a ring in the nose of the black cobra, as Krishna did?

ਕਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਜੋਰੂ ਕਉਣ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥੨॥
kis thoon purakh joroo koun keheeai sarab niranthar rav rehiaa ||2||
Whose Husband are You? Who is Your wife? You are subtly diffused and pervading in all. ||2||

ਨਾਲਿ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਵਰਦਾਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਭਾਲਣ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
naal kuttanb saathh varadhaathaa brehamaa bhaalan srisatt gaeiaa ||
Brahma, the bestower of blessings, entered the stem of the lotus, with his relatives, to find the extent of the universe.
~SGGS Ji p. 350
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Remember language is symbolic. Every word we speak is a symbol referring to ideas,
concepts, places, things. Sometimes symbolism, like poetry, potent truth. It could be
since the concept of inner kundalini serpent power for good or for evil is a universal concept,
that what is referenced here is more than mere mythology. Clearly there is a symbolic
truth evident in major world religions which is being described as taming the serpent.
Could it be that Gurbani is tackling profound spiritual concepts in a symbolic way rather
than dryly repeating mere historic mythology for the entertainment of the common man?

"Even in JapJi Sahib, four realms are not addressed as any chakras or energy."
ਅਸੰਖ ਨਾਵ ਅਸੰਖ ਥਾਵ ॥
asankh naav asankh thhaav ||
Countless names, countless places.

ਅਗੰਮ ਅਗੰਮ ਅਸੰਖ ਲੋਅ ॥
aganm aganm asankh loa ||
Inaccessible, unapproachable, countless celestial realms.

ਅਸੰਖ ਕਹਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਭਾਰੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
asankh kehehi sir bhaar hoe ||
Even to call them countless is to carry the weight on your head.
~SGGS Ji p. 4
ਖਟੁ ਮਟੁ ਦੇਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥
khatt matt dhaehee man bairaagee ||
Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind.

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਧੁਨਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਾਗੀ ॥
surath sabadh dhhun anthar jaagee ||
Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within.

ਵਾਜੈ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਲੀਣਾ ॥
vaajai anehadh maeraa man leenaa ||
The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it.
~SGGS Ji p. 903
ਕਾਯਉ ਦੇਵਾ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਦੇਵਲ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਜੰਗਮ ਜਾਤੀ ॥
kaayo dhaevaa kaaeiao dhaeval kaaeiao jangam jaathee ||
Within the body, the Divine Lord is embodied. The body is the temple, the place of pilgrimage, and the pilgrim.

ਕਾਇਅਉ ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ ਨਈਬੇਦਾ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਪੂਜਉ ਪਾਤੀ ॥੧॥
kaaeiao dhhoop dheep neebaedhaa kaaeiao poojo paathee ||1||
Within the body are incense, lamps and offerings. Within the body are the flower offerings. ||1||

ਕਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਖੰਡ ਖੋਜਤੇ ਨਵ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਈ ॥
kaaeiaa bahu khandd khojathae nav nidhh paaee ||
I searched throughout many realms, but I found the nine treasures within the body.
~SGGS Ji p. 695
First, Japji Sahib is not the totality of Gurbani. If something is not addressed in Japji Sahib, but is addressed in Gurbani, does that make it's meaning invalid and unimportant? Second, uncountable realms are discussed, not specifically the metaphysical physiology of the human body. How does this invalidate the many references in Gurbani to the metaphysical physiology of the human body?

ਅਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਅਨਹਦ ਬੇਨੁ ਬਜਾਵਉਗੋ ॥੧॥
akhandd manddal nirankaar mehi anehadh baen bajaavougo ||1||
In the imperishable realm of the Formless Lord, I play the flute of the unstruck sound current. ||1||

ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਰਾਮਹਿ ਗਾਵਉਗੋ ॥
bairaagee raamehi gaavougo ||
Becoming detached, I sing the Lord's Praises.

ਸਬਦਿ ਅਤੀਤ ਅਨਾਹਦਿ ਰਾਤਾ ਆਕੁਲ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਉਗੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
sabadh atheeth anaahadh raathaa aakul kai ghar jaaougo ||1|| rehaao ||
Imbued with the unattached, unstruck Word of the Shabad, I shall go to the home of the Lord, who has no ancestors. ||1||Pause||

ਇੜਾ ਪਿੰਗੁਲਾ ਅਉਰੁ ਸੁਖਮਨਾ ਪਉਨੈ ਬੰਧਿ ਰਹਾਉਗੋ ॥
eirraa pingulaa aour sukhamanaa pounai bandhh rehaaougo ||
Then, I shall no longer control the breath through the energy channels of the Ida, Pingala and Shushmanaa.

ਚੰਦੁ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਦੁਇ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖਉ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਜਾਉਗੋ ॥੨॥
chandh sooraj dhue sam kar raakho breham joth mil jaaougo ||2||
I look upon both the moon and the sun as the same, and I shall merge in the Light of God. ||2||

ਤੀਰਥ ਦੇਖਿ ਨ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਪੈਸਉ ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਨ ਸਤਾਵਉਗੋ ॥
theerathh dhaekh n jal mehi paiso jeea janth n sathaavougo ||
I do not go to see sacred shrines of pilgrimage, or bathe in their waters; I do not bother any beings or creatures.

ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਖਾਏ ਘਟ ਹੀ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਉਗੋ ॥੩॥
athasath theerathh guroo dhikhaaeae ghatt hee bheethar nhaaougo ||3||
The Guru has shown me the sixty-eight places of pilgrimage within my own heart, where I now take my cleansing bath. ||3||

ਪੰਚ ਸਹਾਈ ਜਨ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਭਲੋ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਾਵਉਗੋ ॥
panch sehaaee jan kee sobhaa bhalo bhalo n kehaavougo ||
I do not pay attention to anyone praising me, or calling me good and nice.

ਨਾਮਾ ਕਹੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਰਾਤਾ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਮਾਉਗੋ ॥੪॥੨॥
naamaa kehai chith har sio raathaa sunn samaadhh samaaougo ||4||2||
Says Naam Dayv, my consciousness is imbued with the Lord; I am absorbed in the profound state of Samaadhi. ||4||2||

ਮਾਇ ਨ ਹੋਤੀ ਬਾਪੁ ਨ ਹੋਤਾ ਕਰਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਤੀ ਕਾਇਆ ॥
maae n hothee baap n hothaa karam n hothee kaaeiaa ||
When there was no mother and no father, no karma and no human body,

ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਹੋਤੇ ਤੁਮ ਨਹੀ ਹੋਤੇ ਕਵਨੁ ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ॥੧॥
ham nehee hothae thum nehee hothae kavan kehaan thae aaeiaa ||1||
when I was not and you were not, then who came from where? ||1||

ਰਾਮ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਕਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੇਰਾ ॥
raam koe n kis hee kaeraa ||
O Lord, no one belongs to anyone else.

ਜੈਸੇ ਤਰਵਰਿ ਪੰਖਿ ਬਸੇਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
jaisae tharavar pankh basaeraa ||1|| rehaao ||
We are like birds perched on a tree. ||1||Pause||

ਚੰਦੁ ਨ ਹੋਤਾ ਸੂਰੁ ਨ ਹੋਤਾ ਪਾਨੀ ਪਵਨੁ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥
chandh n hothaa soor n hothaa paanee pavan milaaeiaa ||
When there was no moon and no sun, then water and air were blended together.

ਸਾਸਤੁ ਨ ਹੋਤਾ ਬੇਦੁ ਨ ਹੋਤਾ ਕਰਮੁ ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ॥੨॥
saasath n hothaa baedh n hothaa karam kehaan thae aaeiaa ||2||
When there were no Shaastras and no Vedas, then where did karma come from? ||2||

ਖੇਚਰ ਭੂਚਰ ਤੁਲਸੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
khaechar bhoochar thulasee maalaa gur parasaadhee paaeiaa ||
Control of the breath and positioning of the tongue, focusing at the third eye and wearing malas of tulsi beads, are all obtained through Guru's Grace.

ਨਾਮਾ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਤਤੁ ਹੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹੋਇ ਲਖਾਇਆ ॥੩॥੩॥
naamaa pranavai param thath hai sathigur hoe lakhaaeiaa ||3||3||
Naam Dayv prays, this is the supreme essence of reality; the True Guru has inspired this realization. ||3||3||

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਘਰੁ ੨ ॥
raamakalee ghar 2 ||
Raamkalee, Second House:

ਬਾਨਾਰਸੀ ਤਪੁ ਕਰੈ ਉਲਟਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਮਰੈ ਅਗਨਿ ਦਹੈ ਕਾਇਆ ਕਲਪੁ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
baanaarasee thap karai oulatt theerathh marai agan dhehai kaaeiaa kalap keejai ||
Someone may practice austerities at Benares, or die upside-down at a sacred shrine ofpilgrimage, or burn his body in fire, or rejuvenate his body to life almost forever;

ਅਸੁਮੇਧ ਜਗੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਸੋਨਾ ਗਰਭ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਰਿ ਤਊ ਨ ਪੂਜੈ ॥੧॥
asumaedhh jag keejai sonaa garabh dhaan dheejai raam naam sar thoo n poojai ||1||
he may perform the horse-sacrifice ceremony, or give donations of gold covered over, but none of these is equal to the worship of the Lord's Name. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 973
 

pk70

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Feb 25, 2008
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Re: Sikh Names

ਸੂਰਸਰੁਸੋਸਿਲੈਸੋਮਸਰੁਪੋਖਿਲੈਜੁਗਤਿਕਰਿਮਰਤੁਸੁਸਨਬੰਧੁਕੀਜੈ
soor sar sos lai som sar pokh lai jugath kar marath s sanabandhh keejai ||
Heat up the sun energy of the right nostril, and cool down the moon energy of the left nostril; practicing this breath-control, bring them into perfect balance.

ਮੀਨਕੀਚਪਲਸਿਉਜੁਗਤਿਮਨੁਰਾਖੀਐਉਡੈਨਹਹੰਸੁਨਹਕੰਧੁਛੀਜੈ੧॥
meen kee chapal sio jugath man raakheeai ouddai neh hans neh kandhh shheejai ||1||
In this way, the fickle fish of the mind will be held steady; the swan-soul shall not fly away, and the body-wall will not crumble. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 991

Above quote is about to be tuned to HIM Bhain ji, it is not about practice of Yoga, translation is horrible, no doubt people are distorting it to promote Yoga. Read this whole Shabad on GGS Ji 991-992, your eyes will be opened.

The question seems to be, "what is yoga?" Yoga ever was and always has meant a path or practice to facillitate union with God. And since ancient times and until the present, a Guru was the person uniquely qualified to take the seeker to the God. Not all Guru's are on the same spiritual level. What Gurbani teaches us is that Satguruji Nanak in all His forms is beyond even Hindu devas. Nowhere does Gurbani say, or allude to or suggest that Hindu devas don't exist, or are mere "mythology
I am not worried about Hindu devtas’ existence, it is` all about stories surrounding them due to which mythology word is used, don’t glue yourself to it, For a metaphor stories can be quoted from fiction also, big deal!
All imaginative events are direct call for to use the word mythology. When Gurbani was revealed, it didn’t discuss these stories in detail save for simple reference where credit of miracles was given to Krishna or Rama or other Devtas, actually only one deserves the credit, it is HIM as per Gurbani.
." It's really shocking that people have a Guru and are so completely dislocated from the history as not to recognize basic role of Guru, basic purpose of Guru, basic process of yoga. Every Guru in existence teaches a form of yoga. That is just arguing with words to say otherwise. Just to grab tuk from Gurbani where Guruji says yoga practices don't lead you to God doesn't mean HIS spiritual path (a form of yoga) doesn't lead to God
. You are free to take the meaning of Yoga as you wish; however, Guru Nanak’s followers understand that they do not need it.
It's unimaginable someone would think such would invalidate all the other pauris where Guruji talks about a form of yoga based on the sound current.
There is no such pouris, read carefully; it is not referred in advocacy of Yoga practice at all. Even the one that starts with" Asankh..." quoted by you.

Why did Satguruji put into Shabad Guru Ji Maharaaj the tuks from Kabir Ji if they serve no purpose or only vague reference to "mythology" and "yogic-Hinduism-brahmanvaad?" It is completely illogical reasoning. Either every word of Gurbani has the power of Gur-shabad-Jyot and is teaching us something about mukti, or not one word of Gurbani has meaning. No one can pick and choose Gurbani like that.
I quoted a complete Shabad,Bhain ji, have you cared to comment on it? You didn’t. Purpose is to justify Yoga even if ignoring of Guru Shabad is necessary
And if we can't understand, then we have to acknowledge something is beyond our understanding. Who can say the Gurbani is meaningless because it doesn't fit into our personal frame of reference, or that it is merely historical or "mythological?
Imagination has no bounds, because nothing is said to prove what is written above.
Quote is given as a whole shabad, it is beyond my comprehension why it is stated as Tuk. Question was about Yoga, now Hindu mythology has taken the place of it.
Now the question again, what is yoga? It's completely bizarre to think only hatha yoga asanas (what most people think of) is the only kind of yoga, or to read Gurbani references to metaphysical physiology and somehow think it means Sikhs should get a yoga teacher and do bunch of postures and austerities. Thats completely misinformed. Gurbani is talking about Koran, Vedas, Kateba, and saying all these scriptures and religious paths cannot give you liberation. Gurbani is saying all the tapas, austerities, religious practices, yoga, Hindu rituals will not get you liberation. Gurbani is NOT saying don't follow the path of liberation Guru Nanak gives you. Guruji is giving us a path of liberation, and very clearly it is contra-distinguished from vain rituals, severe austerities, useless studying of scriptures. The path of Guru is called in Gurbani yoga...even in Gurbani. So we must contradistinguish that from other references to yoga. The crucial factor of difference is 1. we have Satguru, 2. we aren't given austerities but middle path as householder, 3. we aren't given postures but we ARE given pranayam Naam abhiyaas and simran meditation on the Naam, and singing kirtan in sadhsangat to attune with the Naam, and keeping the amrit vela to jap the Naam. Clearly Sikhs are given a form of yoga to practice which will reach the God by (unlocking dasm duar having traversed the body chakrs).
Why it is necessary to call Nam simran a kind of Yoga, why this path does need help from Yoga? Why these chakras etc to understand. Reason is very simple, people also known Sikhs practiced Yoga of special kind and influenced people; some find this technique very useful to attract people. Who listens if it is simply said, “leave every thing to HIS will and live in HIS love”. A few will even listen to it. People are prone to be influenced with extra ordinary things. In Sidh Ghost, Guru ji flatly says he doesn’t have any miracle but NAAM. After studying Gurbani for while I am totally convinced it doesn’t contradict at all, it is the reader who faults.
Coming back to on GGS Ji 908.
Guru shabad doesn’t support Yoga of Yogi Bhajan and others practices of Yoga. None. Read it, reread it, Guru ji’s views are crystal clear. Gurmukh becomes real Yogi by not practicing Yoga but by listening to Guru. Remember conquering the mind, physical exercises wont conquer the mind.
How can you read it any other way?
You have read it otherwise, quite contrary to Guru ji message. I am sorry who can be lead to Yoga after reading it.
It's expressly clear and also vaaran of bhai Gurdas Ji sheds the same light on it. One would think Bhai Gurdas Ji who had darshan of 4 forms of Guru and whose own pen scribed the Adi Granth which became Guru, one would think he would know. It's unimaginable to think 300 years later that we know better with modern interpretations, that Bhai Gurdas Ji had it all wrong. That's just not a credible position. For one thing, if Sikhs were NOT intended to be yogi househoulders... why keep the hair? Why tie topknot? Because that is pure metaphysical physiological yogic practice. It serves absolutely no other conceivable purpose...unless you believe it's a Punjabi cultural ritualistic tradition with no practicality at all.

I don’t understand what this word Punjabi has to do with this argument. Yogi Bhajan was also from Punjabi culture.. Point is to stay on one point and discuss it, here it starts from Yoga to Hindu mythology, from Nam Simnran to Yoga and to Punjabi Culture, Why to tie knot of hair in the middle? Another baseless question? It is getting funny when one smells every thing from Yoga tradition. Bhai Gurdas ji who didn’t support this, his Vaaran were used to get the support to practice Kundli etc. By the way Bhai Gurdas Vara #42 it says if it read many times fruit will be obtained. Wow. No need to do any thing just read the Vaar.It is 100% against Gurbani. Why we need any one even to interpret any thing in a context where Guru Shabad loudly calls “yoga”( often known a mere physical practice) couldn’t liberate the soul though the Yogi claimed, Why these special techniques are needed to be advocated under the name of Gurbani. As per truth revealed to Guru Nanak, living under His fear, living in His love, Living joyful in all circumstances while being tuned to HIM , is actually Yoga (if so called word Yoga is needed to be used.).
Why we need word Yoga to confuse masses?. I have witnessed horrible behavior of people practicing Yoga, how becomes then necessary to have Yoga to walk on Guru panth.

Quote from SGGS Ji p. 923
This shabad doesn’t advocate “yoga”, Raj Yoga”( Raj Yoga’s meaning here=Being tuned to HIM, free from every thing while living in this world littered with Maya is what Guru Nanak enjoyed and passed on to his Jots), sticking with word Raj Yoga doesn’t mean it is about the yoga known practice. Here is another example when tuned to HIM, all yogis asnas are experienced without any effort of physical exercise. Whole Vaar keeps it clearing that physical yoga has nothing to do with liberation. It is advocating only love for Him, living under His Hukm and tuning to Him. I have underlined the vaaks that go against physical Yoga. Guru shabad also addresses the point directly.
ਖੇਚਰਭੂਚਰਚਾਚਰੀਉਨਮਨਲਘਿਅਗੋਚਰਬਾਣਾ
khaychar bhoochar chaacharee unaman|aghi agochar baanaa|
Getting above of the khechar bhuchar chachar, unman and agochar (all yogic postures) mudras he concentrates upon the One Lord

. ( no need of those postures)



ਪਉਣੁਪਾਣੀਬੈਸੰਤਰੋਧਰਤਿਅਕਾਸੁਉਲਘਿਪਇਆਣਾ
paunu paanee baisantaro dharati akaasu ulaghi paiaanaa|
Gurmukh goes beyond air, water, fire, earth and sky.
ਕਾਮੁਕ੍ਰੋਧੁਵਿਰੋਧੁਲਘਿਲੋਭੁਮੋਹੁਅਹੰਕਾਰੁਵਿਹਾਣਾ
kaamu krodhu virodhu|aghi|obhu mohu ahankaaru vihaanaa|
Resisting lust and anger he crosses the greed, infatuation and ego.

ਸਤਿਸੰਤੋਖਦਇਆਧਰਮੁਅਰਥੁਸੁਗਰੰਥੁਪੰਚਪਰਵਾਣਾ
sati santokh daiaa dharamu aradu su garandu panch paravaanaa|
He espouses truth, contentment, compassion, dharma and fortitude.

ਖੇਚਰਭੂਚਰਚਾਚਰੀਉਨਮਨਲਘਿਅਗੋਚਰਬਾਣਾ
khaychar bhoochar chaacharee unaman|aghi agochar baanaa|
Getting above of the khechar bhuchar chachar, unman and agochar (all yogic postures) mudras he concentrates upon the One Lord.
(This means mere tunning to Him by getting above all other physical practices)
ਪੰਚਾਇਣ
ਪਰਮੇਸਰੋਪੰਚਸਬਦਘਨਘੋਰਨੀਸਾਣਾ
panchaain paramaysaro panch sabad ghanaghor neesaanaa|
He beholds God in five (select persons) and the five sounds of five words become his special marks.
(Again very clearly, five words, which are they? These are five elements, not Yoga thing, below Vaak it is clearer that those five are cultivated in holy congregation, not a word for a yogi
and his company)

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਪੰਚਭੂਆਤਮਾਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿਮਿਲਿਸਾਧਸੁਹਾਣਾ
guramukhi panch bhooaatamaa saadhasangati mili saadh suhaanaa|
Antahkaran, the basis of all five external elements is cultivated and cultured by gurmukh in the holy congregation.

ਸਹਜਸਮਾਧਿਆਵਣਜਾਣਾ੫॥
sahaj samaadhi n aavan jaanaa
5
This way immersing in undisturbed trance he gets liberated from the cycle of transmigration.

Vaar 7 Pauri 5 of Vaaran Bhai GurdasJi

Why would Bhai Gurdas of all people be talking about the mudras to block the energy (pran) from escaping the nine holes, and getting above these concentrate on the one Lord, which we must obviously infer relates to the opening of dasm duar...if all this was just mere "Hindu mythology?" Maybe we ourselves are mistaken with those contradictory impressions. Because clearly Gurbani is talking about a practice to cleanse the karam and unite the consciousness with God. And clearly most Sikhs (myself included) are not practicing as intently in the way which would achieve nirvanaa.
In the above Vaak Bhai Sahib is not speaking against Guru Nanak’s views on trances, I hope so. If he does, I will discard his teaching outright; however he doesn’t because he talks about that state of mind where one feels nothing but HIM.

"Sikhism was and is a for masses, high techniques has no advocacy in any Guru Shabad."
Oh really? A path of liberation is already made quite simple through technology of sound current. Or perhaps you don't believe in Guru's Shabad? Veerji, people may be simple-minded, but we all have an atma. And the higher consciousness of every living being, including a tree has intuitive perception greater than the literary ignorance of the common uneducated man. We aren't talking about ignorance or that spiritual teachings need to reflect basic ignorance to reach the masses? What would they reach them with? Spiritual teachings must needs reflect a hyperdimensionality which unites this world and the higher realms to be able to deliver anyone out of bondage from this one. If someone is drowning you throw him a rope. But if the rope is as ignorant and stuck as he is, what's the purpose? Like Einstein said, sometimes to solve a complex problem you have to expand to a higher dimension. That's what spirituality is. And thus it is something of an order of complexity beyond even the human brain. Thus spiritual teachings need to be grasped intuitively, by the jeev, not the brain. These teachings in Gurbani are beyond even scientists.
I would not compare Gurbani with science, its absurd. Gurbani is for the masses, common people who has no way to understand complexity of spirituality. If there are some who want to go through that road, let them go, a Sikh really doesn’t need yaga techniques to realize HIM, as per Gurbani. As Guru Shabad I quoted says it all, who cares if others are promoting Yoga..
We are talking about intuitive perception. On this level, even a little child can understand Gurbani.
I just see it is an imaginative statement.
Are we to infer that Gurbani is deliberately ignorant to reach the masses?
Who said that? Contrary to this statement, Gurbani is for the masses?
At the time of Guru Nanak, Hindu scriptures were in Sanskrit, Koran in Arabic, Guru Nanak chose common people’s language Punjabi obviously it says what I tried to say. Hair splitting has no end Bhain ji!
Gurbani is so many levels of understanding. It speaks to a child, and it makes a child of the intellectual. We are all humbled by the grandeur, the depth, and by the glory of Gurbani.
Adults labor very hard to understand Gurbani, child enlightenment is just miracle nostalgia. Actually let me borrow a word from Randip Singh ji, miracle nostalgia hang over.

It's funny, but I read the simplest statement by a Zen Master years ago, which was so profound it took an entire book bringing in concepts from astrophysics and other dimensions to explain it. This is a philosophy forum. This is a place where we can examine the mysteries and profundity of Gurbani. But none of this means it is required to be a disciple of a true Guru, or undertake the simple path which Guruji gives His sikhs to obtain enlightenment. But naturally, Gurbani contains the essence of the nirgun and the sargun aspects of the Divine. We would finish ourselves before we could ever comprehend the totality of what is in Gurbani. The path is simple, but even scientists studying DNA will tell you the simplest ideas belie the world's greatest complexity. Gurbani understands the creation. Gurbani understands the anatomy and physiology of the human body AND it's spiritual purpose.
I never discussed limitation of Gurbani. I wouldn’t think like that for a second.

"References are used just as references are found about Hindu mythology."
This is a bold statement. First, may I ask you what is mythological about Hindu references in Gurbani. And before you answer, please reflect that Gurbani may be talking about unseen realms and higher dimensional beings which Hindu tradition has described in what is taken to be mythological terminology. This statement above completely discounts anything Gurbani may be saying. We do not presume to speak for Gurbani. We try to understand the depths of Gurbani, and accept that Gurbani may also be saying different things to different people at different times for different purposes, such is the message and power of Living Shabad Guru. But to presume to negate, discredit or invalidate any Gurbani references because someone may not accept, understand or agree with them is somewhat pretentious. Are you saying every reference which can be traced to Hindu religion which is in Gurbani... is mythological, not factual, not real, and therefore to be dismissed and disbelieved? Would you go so far?
It is better to understand the main idea, jumping to conclusion and accusations would do no good to the doer. Hindu mythology is word well known and got its status in this context when stories were told about throwing elephants in the sky and still they are up, Ganges flowing from Shiva(Every one knows the origin of Ganges,), whatever the scholar said in imagination was accepted with attitude of “no question should be asked”; One Devtas’ head is beheaded, a new head of elephant was put on(Gnesh Ji), these are mythological events and they are numerous, I do not have time to write about all of them here. These are not symbolic, in a fact it is a sheer imagination of the story tellers. In all stories there are myths, it doesn’t mean, there was no Ram, No Krishna, or others. That is not the issue, if I call them Hindu mythology, how will the application of the reference of them in Gurbani become invalid? Popular stories were in circles and Guru ji is saying that all they were created by Him, do not forget Him and never fall into the hands of these people who are making money on them. I feel, here a word is picked up, spun around and dragged to another issues. I have not seen a comment on the Shabad I quoted because it doesn’t support Yoga. As I said before, Guru ji showed only one path to live in His love and involve in in His praise to get rid of duality, no other path can be helpful in this context. In Sukhmani, Guru ji also calls it” sreshat Dharm” . Why finding other complexities to confuse simple minded. Isn’t it an irony, simple battle with the mind is not won, people talk about Yoga technique complexities. Physical Yoga is easier than winning battle within, that is why Yoga love affair goes on.


Remember language is symbolic. Every word we speak is a symbol referring to ideas, concepts, places, things. Sometimes symbolism, like poetry, potent truth. It could be since the concept of inner kundalini serpent power for good or for evil is a universal concept, that what is referenced here is more than mere mythology. Clearly there is a symbolic truth evident in major world religions which is being described as taming the serpent. Could it be that Gurbani is tackling profound spiritual concepts in a symbolic way rather than dryly repeating mere historic mythology for the entertainment of the common man?
No comment was made in this context either; quotes are coming from no where.

"Even in JapJi Sahib, four realms are not addressed as any chakras or energy."

.
Quote~SGGS Ji p. 903

This Shabad doesn’t support complexities of Yoga, now symbols are taken in new meaning, it amazez me though!
Quote~SGGS Ji p. 695
First, Japji Sahib is not the totality of Gurbani. If something is not addressed in Japji Sahib, but is addressed in Gurbani, does that make it's meaning invalid and unimportant? Second, uncountable realms are discussed, not specifically the metaphysical physiology of the human body. How does this invalidate the many references in Gurbani to the metaphysical physiology of the human body?

In this quote no support for Yaga. I cannot comprehend why are you just in denial of not understanding Gurbani. In a reference to Japji, I pointed out, Guru ji showed four stages, developments of state of mind known as four realms. Not a word of Yoga in there, obviously, therefore Yoga- complex- techniques are not required by Guru ji to reach to SACH KHAND the final realm, that was the reason to quote Jap ji. Now you are commenting on Japji. It is always good to read and see why this reference was given. Also your word disturbs me” Japji is not totality of Gurbani” It is uncalled for comment. I feel you just read translations, depth of the meaning of the Shabad fails to be realized due to translators limited understanding of the originals or crippled words which are handy while translating.
There are many references in GGS Ji (like on 18,64, 67, 70, Raag Majh Mehla 5, gouri Cheti Mehla 1) clearly states that it is Nam Simran being tuned to Him is real Yoga but not all physical yoga practices adopted by any Sikh Yogi or others. Poor translations are creating this illusion. There are many Guru Shabad in which Guru ji talks about prevailed things and give own views either in "Pause" or at the end of the Shabadas.
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
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Re: Sikh Names

I quoted a complete Shabad,Bhain ji, have you cared to comment on it? You didn’t. Purpose is to justify Yoga even if ignoring of Guru Shabad is necessary
:confused: Seriously. Let's look carefully at this shabad veer ji. The reason I don't post big long shabad's is because I'm posting big long articles. So I plainly post the page number so anyone can go and read the Gurbani which I think relates to the subject. If there are for example 21 tuks which are talking about japping Naam with each and every breath, I don't see why reading the entire pauri is needed to shed better light on something obvious. In the same manner, there are many sanskrit yogic terminology used in Gurbani. When I point these out, you disagree with the meanings, or the translation, or the interpretations. That's okay, but reading the entire pauri won't diminish the presence of the yogic references. I will try to offer what clarification I can and answer objections as I can. But fundamentally, I'm not here to change anyone's opinion, only to share my own. The fun thing is, maybe some people will look at things in a different way.

You write: "You are free to take the meaning of Yoga as you wish; however, Guru Nanak’s followers understand that they do not need it."

Are you implying I'm not a follower of Guru Nanak? That's a big conclusion.

"There is no such pouris, read carefully; it is not referred in advocacy of Yoga practice at all. Even the one that starts with" Asankh..." quoted by you."

Veer ji do you realize the major Jathas such as Damdami Taksal, Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Nirmala, Nihang, actually interpret the Gurbani in the way I'm interpreting it now? There's nothing new or radical in what I'm saying or pointing out. Just, it isn't well known is all. What I'm saying has nothing to do with Yogi Bhajan for example.

"Guru shabad doesn’t support Yoga of Yogi Bhajan and others practices of Yoga. None. Read it, reread it, Guru ji’s views are crystal clear. Gurmukh becomes real Yogi by not practicing Yoga but by listening to Guru. Remember conquering the mind, physical exercises wont conquer the mind."

How can you read it any other way?

"You have read it otherwise, quite contrary to Guru ji message. I am sorry who can be lead to Yoga after reading it."

Where did I say anything about yoga of Yogi Bhajan? I don't know any yoga from Yogi Bhajan. I took amrit from Panj Piare from AKJ. I'm not sayihng anything about yoga of Yogi Bhajan. Why are you jumping to this extreme conclusion? Is that the only kind of yoga you know about? Do you think every form of yoga in the world automatically relates to Yogi Bhajan? I believe Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji was a brahmgyani. And while I may respect individual insights Yogi Bhajan had, I don't even consider him the same way. A lot more people than Yogi Bhajan talk about these things. If you even researched old school yoga, these terms and yogic descriptions found in Gurbani would be immediately clear. Now, I'm not saying anyone has to go and study yoga. But even a casual glance and it becomes obvious. Gurbani is based on a yogic tradition. Gursikhi is a yogic path. Can you explain what is meant by:


ਤੂੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗੁ ॥੧॥
thoon gur prasaadh kar raaj jog ||1||
By Guru's Grace, practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 211


ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਬਚਨਿ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜੁ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
gur kai bachan keeno raaj jog ||
Through the Guru's Word, I practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success.
~SGGS Ji p. 239


ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਬਹਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਆਪਿ ਟਿਕਾਇਆ ॥
sathiguroo parathakh hodhai behi raaj aap ttikaaeiaa ||
The True Guru Himself sat up, and appointed the successor to the Throne of Raja Yoga, the Yoga of Meditation and Success.

ਸਭਿ ਸਿਖ ਬੰਧਪ ਪੁਤ ਭਾਈ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੪॥
sabh sikh bandhhap puth bhaaee raamadhaas pairee paaeiaa ||4||
All the Sikhs, relatives, children and siblings have fallen at the Feet of Guru Ram Das. ||4|

ਅੰਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਮੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਕਰਿਅਹੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥
anthae sathigur boliaa mai pishhai keerathan kariahu nirabaan jeeo ||
Finally, the True Guru said, ""When I am gone, sing Kirtan in Praise of the Lord, in Nirvaanaa.""
~SGGS Ji p. 923


ਰਾਜੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਤਖਤੁ ਦੀਅਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ॥
raaj jog thakhath dheean gur raamadhaas ||
Guru Raam Daas was blessed with the Throne of Raja Yoga.
~SGGS Ji p. 1399


What I keep trying to explain is Guruji teaches His own yoga, we don't have to learn from someone else. We have a Living Satguru who is teaching us. But you can't wrench the Gurbani, the supportive vaaran, the Gurmat tradition of several Jathas out of context to deny the reality of Sikhism as a form of yogic practice. It's just not believable all this talk about yoga in Gurbani doesn't really mean yoga! What does it mean then? Why is it in Gurbani?

ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਕਥਹਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
chaarae baedh kathhehi aakaar ||
The four Vedas speak only of the visible forms.

ਤੀਨਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਨੁ ॥
theen avasathhaa kehehi vakhiaan ||
They describe and explain the three states of mind,

ਤੁਰੀਆਵਸਥਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੁ ॥੧॥
thureeaavasathhaa sathigur thae har jaan ||1||
but the fourth state, union with the Lord, is known only through the True Guru. ||1|
~SGGS Ji p. 154

It means the Vedas can take you far but they can't take you all the way. This is a radically different meaning than to say the Vedas are meaningless.


ਜੋਗ ਸਬਦੰ ਗਿਆਨ ਸਬਦੰ ਬੇਦ ਸਬਦੰ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਹ ॥
jog sabadhan giaan sabadhan baedh sabadhan braahamaneh ||
The Way of Yoga is the Way of spiritual wisdom; the Vedas are the Way of the Brahmins.
~SGGS Ji p. 469

It means the way of Yoga doesn't belong to Hinduism or the Vedas. And it is the way of obtaining enlightenment.


What is the meaning of this vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji if Gursikhi is against yoga?

ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਾਤੰਜਲ ਮਥਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਗਿ ਸੁਣਾਈ ।
saykhanaag paatanjal madiaa guramukhi saasatr naagi sunaaee|
Gurmukh Patanjali the (supposed) incarnation of the Sesnaga, very thoughtfully recited, the Naga-Shastra, Yoga Shastra (Patanjal-Yogasutras).

ਵੇਦ ਅਥਰਵਣ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਜੋਗ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਈ ।
vayd adaravan boliaa jog binaa nahi bharamu chukaaee|
He told in consonance with Atharvaveda that illusion cannot be erased without yoga.

ਜਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਮੈਲੀ ਆਰਸੀ ਸਿਕਲ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ ।
jiu kari mailee aarasee sikal binaa nahi mukhi dikhaaee|
It is similar to the fact where we know that without cleansing of the mirror, the face cannot be seen in it.

ਜੋਗੁ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਅਨਹਦ ਧੁਨਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ।
jogu padaarad niramalaa anahad dhuni andari|iv|aaee|
Yoga is cleansing praxis through which the surati gets absorbed into the unstruck melody.

ਅਸਟ ਦਸਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਗੀ ਚਰਨ ਲਗਾਈ ।
asat dasaa sidhi nau nidhee guramukhi jogee charan|agaaee|
Eighteen siddhis and nine treasures fall at the feet of a gurmukh yogi.

ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਜੁਗਾਂ ਕੀ ਬਾਸਨਾ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਾਤੰਜਲਿ ਪਾਈ ।
trihu jugaan kee baasanaa kalijug vichi paatanjali paaee|
In kaliyug, Patanjali talked about fulfillment of desires that remained unfulfilled in the three ages.

ਹਥੋ ਹਥੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਭਗਤਿ ਜੋਗ ਕੀ ਪੂਰ ਕਮਾਈ ।
hado hadee paaeeai bhagati jog kee poor kamaaee|
The complete achievement of yogic bhakti is that you every thing hand to hand.

ਨਾਮ ਦਾਨੁ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਸੁਭਾਈ ॥੧੪॥
naam daanu isanaanu subhaaee ॥14॥
The jiv should cultivate the nature of rememberance of God, charity and ablution (internal and external).
Vaar 1 Pauri 14 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji



Okay, let's go over the shabad you posted which you think is so objectionable to yoga in general, since yoga specifically means a method of union with God, and is thus a spiritual practice by definition.


ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੭
soohee mehalaa 1 ghar 7
Soohee, First Mehl, Seventh House:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਖਿੰਥਾ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਡੰਡੈ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਭਸਮ ਚੜਾਈਐ ॥
jog n khinthhaa jog n ddanddai jog n bhasam charraaeeai ||
Yoga is not the patched coat, Yoga is not the walking stick. Yoga is not smearing the body with ashes.

ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਮੁੰਦੀ ਮੂੰਡਿ ਮੁਡਾਇਐ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਵਾਈਐ ॥
jog n mundhee moondd muddaaeiai jog n sinn(g)ee vaaeeai ||
Yoga is not the ear-rings, and not the shaven head. Yoga is not the blowing of the horn.

ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥
anjan maahi niranjan reheeai jog jugath eiv paaeeai ||1||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||1||

ਗਲੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
galee jog n hoee ||
By mere words, Yoga is not attained.

ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee ||1|| rehaao ||
One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause||

ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਮੜੀ ਮਸਾਣੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈਐ ॥
jog n baahar marree masaanee jog n thaarree laaeeai ||
Yoga is not wandering to the tombs of the dead; Yoga is not sitting in trances.

ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਦੇਸਿ ਦਿਸੰਤਰਿ ਭਵਿਐ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਈਐ ॥
jog n dhaes dhisanthar bhaviai jog n theerathh naaeeai ||
Yoga is not wandering through foreign lands; Yoga is not bathing at sacred shrines of pilgrimage.

ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੨॥
anjan maahi niranjan reheeai jog jugath eiv paaeeai ||2||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||2||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਤਾ ਸਹਸਾ ਤੂਟੈ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਵਰਜਿ ਰਹਾਈਐ ॥
sathigur bhaettai thaa sehasaa thoottai dhhaavath varaj rehaaeeai ||
Meeting with the True Guru, doubt is dispelled, and the wandering mind is restrained.

ਨਿਝਰੁ ਝਰੈ ਸਹਜ ਧੁਨਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਘਰ ਹੀ ਪਰਚਾ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
nijhar jharai sehaj dhhun laagai ghar hee parachaa paaeeai ||
Nectar rains down, celestial music resounds, and deep within, wisdom is obtained.

ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੩॥
anjan maahi niranjan reheeai jog jugath eiv paaeeai ||3||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||3||

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀਵਤਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਐਸਾ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥
naanak jeevathiaa mar reheeai aisaa jog kamaaeeai ||
O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive - practice such a Yoga.

ਵਾਜੇ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਵਾਜੈ ਤਉ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
vaajae baajhahu sinn(g)ee vaajai tho nirabho padh paaeeai ||
When the horn is blown without being blown, then you shall attain the state of fearless dignity.

ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਤਉ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੪॥੧॥੮॥
anjan maahi niranjan reheeai jog jugath tho paaeeai ||4||1||8||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||4||1||8||
~SGGS Ji p. 730


The Gurbani is clearly saying Real spiritual yoga is not the outer appearance of wearing patched coat, earrings, shaven head, smearing with ashes, etc. Real yoga is remaining unblemished in the filth of the world. Real yoga is not mere words or pretense but attaining the single eye (sixth level third eye Ajna chakra which enables intuitive spiritual perception of samaadhi, oneness of the God pervading all beings which the ordinary mind cannot grasp because of duality.)

There is a scripture in Christian Bible which states: "“If thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.” - Matthew 6:22​

This scripture is often cited by yogis (I learned it from studying Paramahansa Yogananda decades ago when I was a child) to illustrate that kateb also teaches a form of yoga. This is really old and basic stuff. No one can have undivided attentiveness, single-mindedness, or a single eye in a natural unenlightened state.

"Eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee."

Nothing in this entire shabad says there is no yoga, or that no one needs yoga as you are saying. The shabad clearly illustrates what is needed for there to be real yoga (union with God) and that is basically sincere practice, not just words or playing the role.

Now there are many hidden (I guess if unfamiliar with yogic terminology) yogic references in this shabad. I will try and point them out with explanation to the best of my ability.

1. ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee ||1|| rehaao ||
One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause||

Refers to a transcendent state of consciousness where you are perceiving the Oneness without duality. This is attained by opening the 6th chakra and stimulating the pineal gland to obtain a whole new brain chemistry and expand into opening dasam duar at level of 7th Sahasrara crown chakra, unfolding the thousand petalled lotus of God-consciousness.

2. ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੨॥
anjan maahi niranjan reheeai jog jugath eiv paaeeai ||2||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||2||

Refers to sincerity and inner purification, not outer purification practices as what will lead to true yoga (union with God). This relates to intention, that a real jogee isn't acting holy to be appreciated as a saddhu by people but is serious about doing the spiritual work to cleanse the impurities and blemishes that obstruct spiritual development.


3. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਤਾ ਸਹਸਾ ਤੂਟੈ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਵਰਜਿ ਰਹਾਈਐ ॥
sathigur bhaettai thaa sehasaa thoottai dhhaavath varaj rehaaeeai ||
Meeting with the True Guru, doubt is dispelled, and the wandering mind is restrained.

No one can succeed in any kind of spiritual path without a Guru. Only with a God-realized Satguru can the seeker reach God-consciousness. This too is an ancient Indic tradition with roots in the Vedas and Yoga sutras.


4. ਨਿਝਰੁ ਝਰੈ ਸਹਜ ਧੁਨਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਘਰ ਹੀ ਪਰਚਾ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
nijhar jharai sehaj dhhun laagai ghar hee parachaa paaeeai ||
Nectar rains down, celestial music resounds, and deep within, wisdom is obtained.

These translations really aren't exact but they do approximate. Veer ji, this relates to the praan opening the sixth and seventh chakras. The nectar trickles into the mouth from the pineal gland. As one is developing spiritually and the dasam duar is opening, the yogis listen for 5 sounds. After this, they hear the unstruck sound, anehad shabad. True wisdom is obtained by withdrawing the life current from the outer senses to the inner. This is giving the secret to true yoga here. Without this, there is no true wisdom. These are all very well known metaphysical descriptions of enlightenment.

5. ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀਵਤਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਐਸਾ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥
naanak jeevathiaa mar reheeai aisaa jog kamaaeeai ||
O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive - practice such a Yoga.

Compare this with what was written earlier:

ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਮੜੀ ਮਸਾਣੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਈਐ ॥
jog n baahar marree masaanee jog n thaarree laaeeai ||
Yoga is not wandering to the tombs of the dead; Yoga is not sitting in trances.


This refers to the praan withdrawn from the sensual sansaaric realm, the nine holes sealed to open the inner door of God-perception. And not being caught on some tantric superficial level of riddhia siddhia. Real yogic practice is not tantra or contacting lower astral spirits but activating your own God-realization.

6. ਵਾਜੇ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਵਾਜੈ ਤਉ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
vaajae baajhahu sinn(g)ee vaajai tho nirabho padh paaeeai ||
When the horn is blown without being blown, then you shall attain the state of fearless dignity.

contrast this with what was said earlier:

ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਮੁੰਦੀ ਮੂੰਡਿ ਮੁਡਾਇਐ ਜੋਗੁ ਨ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਵਾਈਐ ॥
jog n mundhee moondd muddaaeiai jog n sinn(g)ee vaaeeai ||
Yoga is not the ear-rings, and not the shaven head. Yoga is not the blowing of the horn.


It is refering to spiritual development of real God-perception and not just the outer appearance of reaching God (practicing yoga). This is like the Radhasoamis who put their fingers in their ears to make ringing sounds and call it the anehad shabad. Guruji is teaching the correct and real yoga which is about opening the dasam duar to perceive sounds which don't exist in physical dimension and surpass even these to reach the anehad shabad.


Okay, now you tell me how this shabad is saying what you claim:

"You have read it otherwise, quite contrary to Guru ji message. I am sorry who can be lead to Yoga after reading it."

It isn't specifically talking about true yoga in this shabad? It isn't saying "yoga is not...yoga is not"..."But yoga is...yoga is"..."so become a Yogi!" (united with God). Maybe we are not reading the same shabad. So it is talking about yoga, but it's not about yoga. Explain please how this yoga referred to in Gurbani is contrary to Guruji's message...if that's Guruji's message. Guruji is the way, He is the spiritual Master, it is His path of yogic enlightenment leading to the God. Explain how I ever said Gurbani leads a person to someone like Yogi Bhajan who I don't even have association with? Is this what you're thinking?

"Why it is necessary to call Nam simran a kind of Yoga, why this path does need help from Yoga? Why these chakras etc to understand. Reason is very simple, people also known Sikhs practiced Yoga of special kind and influenced people; some find this technique very useful to attract people. Who listens if it is simply said, “leave every thing to HIS will and live in HIS love”. A few will even listen to it. People are prone to be influenced with extra ordinary things. In Sidh Ghost, Guru ji flatly says he doesn’t have any miracle but NAAM."

First the notion that Guruji had no miracles is British. The janam sakis are full of miracle stories. But aside from the point, we know Guruji could work any miracle. It was not His purpose to come into the world with diversions but with deliverance. The Naam is a miracle so great it brought the nirgun into the sansaara. The Naam is so powerful all the other yogas are failing to accomplish what it can accomplish. Nowhere in Gurbani does it say "leave everything to His will." As if we passively do nothing and God does everything. It says get up early and do isnaan and jap Naam. It says go to the sadhsangat and sing the kirtan of the Lord's praise. It says conquer your panj vikaars. It says meditate and remember the name of God with every breath and morsel of food. And we are instructed per hukam of Panj Piare and Akal Takht that it's important to receive amrit and keep rehit maryada. What I'm saying is, all those practices put together are Guruji's yoga, way of union with God. This path doesn't need help from yoga. Yoga needs help from this path. Because this path is true and real yoga.


For some clarity on the 5 yogic sounds this is what Kulbir Singh Ji from Tapoban forum has explained:

a very interesting story involving Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee. Once a gursikh came to Bhai Sahib and started talking about Anhad Shabad. He said that he could now clearly hear the bell ring, sometimes the roaring of clouds and even the flute. He wanted to confirm his spiritual state with Bhai Sahib. Bhai Sahib in response to his question said that he does not hear any of these voices and sounds i.e. instrumental sounds. At this he got greatly disheartened.

Bhai Sahib asked him what exactly he was doing while doing abhyaas. He said that he had a black dot on the wall for dhyaan (concentration) and he does one Siri Sukhmani Sahib paath looking at the dot. Then he keeps his mind quiet and tries to listen to the five kind of sounds. After a while he starts hearing a faint sound of bell, waterfall, flute etc. The black dot too illuminates and all this really motivated him and he started thinking that he was listening to Anhad Shabad.

Bhai Sahib did not doubt what he was telling because Bhai Sahib knew that this person was telling the truth. Bhai Sahib told him that they would discuss this again the next day. That day at night Bhai Sahib writes that he sat in Smadhi and tried to hear the five sounds this person was mentioning. He could not hear anything other than Gurmat Anhad Shabad (I will explain this later). Then Bhai Sahib brought down his surtee to a much lower level and he was surprised to hear that all five sounds could be heard at different levels. Bhai Sahib writes that there was not even 1/millionth anand or bliss in these instrumental sounds as compared to the Gurmat Anhad Shabad. Bhai Sahib right away came out of smadhi and immediately went to that gursikh who had asked this question from Bhai Sahib and told him that he was totally engaged in wrong anti-Gurmat practices. Bhai Sahib explained to him his experience and told him that little bit of concentration that he had attained was a result of Siri Sukhmani Sahib paath and he started hearing those instrumental sounds because he wanted to hear them. Bhai Sahib told him that Gurmat Anhad Shabad is way superior to this.

From this saakhi of Bhai Sahib we learn that these five shabads that RS talk about do exist but they are not attained by the way they work on it. Actually these five shabads are the invention or discovery of Yogis and RS has just adopted their theory. Gurmat does not believe in limited 5 shabads. Panch Shabad in Gurbani does not mean 5 Shabad but Panch means superior or greatest shabads. Gurmat believes in “Vajae Shabad Ghanaray” i.e. countless shabads and not only 5.

We all know that in Sach Khand divine praises of Vaheguru are sung and this language in which they are sung is beyond the 5 elements i.e. water, air, earth, fire and sky. Those praises of Vaheguru cannot be defined or explained in this world and can only be heard when our concentration or our mann (mind) goes beyond the 5 elements in Turiya Avastha or Chautha Padd. These praises or sifat-salaah of Vaheguru that goes on in Sach Khand is called Anhad Shabad. Gurbani that we have here in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee is that baani of Sach Khand that is used to praise Vaheguru. Some how our Guru Sahib did this impossible task of bringing this "dhur kee baani" down here and this is why they wrote in Gurbani as follows:

SEHAJ KATHA PRABH KEE ATT MEETHEE, KATHEE AKATH KAHAANI ||
(Sehaj Katha i.e. Bani of Vaheguru is extremely sweet. The unspeakable or unexplainable katha of Vaheguru has been spoken or explained).

The divine praises of Vaheguru going on in Sach Khand and sung by bhagats there are Anhad Shabads or Anhat Shabads that Gursikhs here hear when they reach Dasam Duaar.

According to the books of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee Dasam Duaar is not a land of mandal as RS believes in. It is such a doorway or place within the body from where one can experience what is going on in Sach Khand. Dasam Duaar is in our Body and sitting in this human body one can experience the nazaaray of Sach Khand. This is what Dasam Duaar is. Read 38th pauri of Siri Anand Sahib for details on this.


~Bhul chak maaf
 

pk70

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Re: Sikh Names

Quote“Seriously. Let's look carefully at this shabad veer ji. The reason I don't post big long shabad's is because I'm posting big long articles. So I plainly post the page number so anyone can go and read the Gurbani which I think relates to the subject. If there are for example 21 tuks which are talking about japping Naam with each and every breath, I don't see why reading the entire pauri is needed to shed better light on something obvious. In the same manner, there are many sanskrit yogic terminology used in Gurbani. When I point these out, you disagree with the meanings, or the translation, or the interpretations. That's okay, but reading the entire pauri won't diminish the presence of the yogic references. I will try to offer what clarification I can and answer objections as I can. But fundamentally, I'm not here to change anyone's opinion, only to share my own. The fun thing is, maybe some people will look at things in a different way.
Let’s talk about first terms only. Guru ji used terms related with Hinduism, Yogis, Islam, Sanyaasi etc. Those were prevailing religions or sects at his time. He had to talk and repudiate their philosophy because main purpose of life was Naam Simran and eliminating the width between HIM and us, occurs due to Maya influences (Japji). Only yogi term was not selected, so this is baseless point to say that there is presence of Yoga references in Gurbani. Guru ji takes one by one and gives his meaning to those words. Let me put it different way if you could understand my point better way. Guru ji takes on caste system and we all know that Caste System is strongly condemned in GGS Ji Look on.P 469 Mehla 2, Guru ji says Brahmin discusses Vedas, Khatris do acts of bravery, Shudras dharm is to serve others ( all Hindu religion belief). In the last vaak Guru ji says that actually every one’s dharm is to praise HIM. Should we conclude here that Guru ji believes in caste system because he specially writes about different castes? Closed mind will do it. Here if any one reads it in totality of Gurbani, will understand that these words are used to advocate Nam Simran and, caste system is not accepted at all. That is the case with about Yoga term.
You write: "You are free to take the meaning of Yoga as you wish; however, Guru Nanak’s followers understand that they do not need it."
Are you implying I'm not a follower of Guru Nanak? That's a big conclusion.
It was not personal; if you think it was addressed to you, forgive me because I respect all who believe in Guru Nanak equally.

"There is no such pouris, read carefully; it is not referred in advocacy of Yoga practice at all. Even the one that starts with" Asankh..." quoted by you."

Veer ji do you realize the major Jathas such as Damdami Taksal, Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Nirmala, Nihang, actually interpret the Gurbani in the way I'm interpreting it now?
To be honest with you Bhainji, I do not believe in any of the above, I have very close friends who are like family members of Sant Bhindran wale group, I strongly disagree with them on Gurbani interpretation and they accept it at least in my presence. So these are not exemplary groups to understand Gurbani. Any group in the name of religion is not appreciated by 4 Mehla when he says to the fact that people who go for groups but the one who tunes to HIM doesn’t need any group(Rag Asa Mehla 4 Ghar 2. 266).
There's nothing new or radical in what I'm saying or pointing out. Just, it isn't well known is all. What I'm saying has nothing to do with Yogi Bhajan for example.
Yogi Bhajan’s name came because you brought it in.


Where did I say anything about yoga of Yogi Bhajan? I don't know any yoga from Yogi Bhajan. I took amrit from Panj Piare from AKJ. I'm not sayihng anything about yoga of Yogi Bhajan. Why are you jumping to this extreme conclusion? Is that the only kind of yoga you know about? Do you think every form of yoga in the world automatically relates to Yogi Bhajan? I believe Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji was a brahmgyani.
As I said above, Yogi Bhajan’s name came because brought it, please reread your posts you will find it. I do not believe in AKJ, Panj pyare giving Naam secretly, I consider that is big discrimination and is almost anti Guru Nanak. I do not believe Bhai Randhir Singh as Brahmgyani. There is lot of Brahmgysanis promoted in some circles. My source is no body but Guru Granth Sahib, Period. That source comes directly to us from our glorious Fifth Nanak.

And while I may respect individual insights Yogi Bhajan had, I don't even consider him the same way. A lot more people than Yogi Bhajan talk about these things. If you even researched old school yoga, these terms and yogic descriptions found in Gurbani would be immediately clear. Now, I'm not saying anyone has to go and study yoga. But even a casual glance and it becomes obvious.
Gurbani is based on a yogic tradition.
That is very untrue statement.
Gursikhi is a yogic path. Can you explain what is meant by:
You bet I will
ਤੂੰਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿਕਰਿਰਾਜਜੋਗੁ੧॥
thoon gur prasaadh kar raaj jog ||1||
By Guru's Grace, practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 211


Respected Bhain ji, Raj jog means “grehsti and Faqiri” all in one. Gur parsaad means with Guru’s blessings. Guru enables the family man to live like a Faqir(totally indifferent to all Maya influences). This very context, Guru Nanak is praised as “Raja Yogi” not raja yogi as your group promotes. Words speak for themselves.
ਗੁਰਕੈਬਚਨਿਕੀਨੋਰਾਜੁਜੋਗੁ
gur kai bachan keeno raaj jog ||
Through the Guru's Word, I practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success.
~SGGS Ji p. 239


Again, translator fails to convey Guru Message; it’s not Yoga meditation, its family and faqiri together. The meaning should be,” with the teachings of Guru I have enjoyed Faqiri being family man.” Actually Shabad starts with Guru’s praise who helps to realize Him. Yogi nostalgia distorted the meaning just to promote it. Remember, during Guru Sahiban, pirthye, and others opened shops in the name of Guru Nanak and tried to sell this kind of stuff, true Sikhs remained tuned to Guru Sahiban.. About reference on P 923, I made it clear it has nothing to do with “your Yoga”. Its about enjoying Faqiri being family man. Nothing goes beyond that.
ਰਾਜੁਜੋਗੁਤਖਤੁਦੀਅਨੁਗੁਰਰਾਮਦਾਸ
raaj jog thakhath dheean gur raamadhaas ||
Guru Raam Daas was blessed with the Throne of Raja Yoga.
~SGGS Ji p. 1399

Same point of view, translator mislead you to Yoga thing, it is not about Yoga.

What I keep trying to explain is Guruji teaches His own yoga, we don't have to learn from someone else. We have a Living Satguru who is teaching us. But you can't wrench the Gurbani, the supportive vaaran, the Gurmat tradition of several Jathas out of context to deny the reality of Sikhism as a form of yogic practice. It's just not believable all this talk about yoga in Gurbani doesn't really mean yoga! What does it mean then? Why is it in Gurbani?
Above I answered it how Guru ji gives meaning to the prevailed words (used to influence people to milk money)
ਚਾਰੇਬੇਦਕਥਹਿਆਕਾਰੁ
chaarae baedh kathhehi aakaar ||
The four Vedas speak only of the visible forms.

ਤੀਨਿਅਵਸਥਾਕਹਹਿਵਖਿਆਨੁ
theen avasathhaa kehehi vakhiaan ||
They describe and explain the three states of mind,

ਤੁਰੀਆਵਸਥਾਸਤਿਗੁਰਤੇਹਰਿਜਾਨੁ੧॥
thureeaavasathhaa sathigur thae har jaan ||1||
but the fourth state, union with the Lord, is known only through the True Guru. ||1|
~SGGS Ji p. 154

It means the Vedas can take you far but they can't take you all the way. This is a radically different meaning than to say the Vedas are meaningless.
First of all Bhain ji, Sikhs do not need to study Vedas, why would you waste time on the scripture that doesn’t take to the final goal? Gurbani does and stick to it. Why craving for Vedas goes on? In above quote it is again clear all discussion of Vedas will take us to the middle. So, follow GURBANI ONLY WITHOUT DISTORTION.
ਜੋਗਸਬਦੰਗਿਆਨਸਬਦੰਬੇਦਸਬਦੰਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਹ
jog sabadhan giaan sabadhan baedh sabadhan braahamaneh ||
The Way of Yoga is the Way of spiritual wisdom; the Vedas are the Way of the Brahmins.
~SGGS Ji p. 469

Again distortion, I tell you how and why? Guru ji starts with Yog dharm. Read the whole Shabad. It states “Yoga dharm is about knowledge to discuss about HIM, Brahamin’s dharm is to discuss Vedas. Khatri dharm is to do bravery acts, and low class category’s Dharm is to serve others.” After saying that, Guru ji expresses his own views, “all’s Dharm is to do His Naam Simran. Who understands this, I am his servant and he/she is like God.”
From what part of brain attaches this Shabad to Yoga (or caste system?)
Here is complete Sloke by Mehla 2 p-469
mÚ 2 ] jog sbdM igAwn sbdM byd sbdM bRwhmxh ] KqRI sbdM sUr sbdM sUdR sbdM prwik®qh ] srb sbdM eyk sbdM jy ko jwxY Byau ] nwnku qw kw dwsu hY soeI inrMjn dyau ]2] {pMnw 469}
Vaar 1 Pauri 14 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji
In this Vaar Bhai Sahib talks what others who say about it but in the end, reread what is said. It is Naam Simran that brings together Faqiri being in family life. In another line, Bhia sahib hints about yoga limitations. Again, it is used to support this failed practice.

Okay, let's go over the shabad you posted which you think is so objectionable to yoga in general, since yoga specifically means a method of union with God, and is thus a spiritual practice by definition.

~SGGS Ji p. 730

The Gurbani is clearly saying Real spiritual yoga is not the outer appearance of wearing patched coat, earrings, shaven head, smearing with ashes, etc. Real yoga is remaining unblemished in the filth of the world.
Very good understanding
Real yoga is not mere words or pretense but attaining the single eye (sixth level third eye Ajna chakra which enables intuitive spiritual perception of samaadhi, oneness of the God pervading all beings which the ordinary mind cannot grasp because of duality.)
This is made up thing; there is no word in the shabad about it. Yoga smells every where unnecessarily to Yoga promoters. It appears like programming to get the goal. Why crystal clear views are not clear? Where is sixth eye mentioned above? Guru ji has no regard for this imagination. He goes on telling you, and instead of listening to him, you are more tuned to AJC programming.

There is a scripture in Christian Bible which states: "“If thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.” - Matthew 6:22
I am not interested in it, out of context, we are discussing Yoga in Gurbani as per Guru says.
This scripture is often cited by yogis (I learned it from studying Paramahansa Yogananda decades ago when I was a child) to illustrate that kateb also teaches a form of yoga. This is really old and basic stuff. No one can have undivided attentiveness, single-mindedness, or a single eye in a natural unenlightened state.
I am glad I didn’t go through it, I noticed changes within me without all stuff you are talking about, by just trying Gurbani as motto of life. Battle needs to win within, rest physical exercises are of no use. In GGS ji there is example of Dhanna Bhagat who got HIS blessings with devotion not with Yoga exercises, why any one even need it for union with HIM. For physical fitness it is alright. All comes down to how to make money otherwise. Naam Simran has nothing to do with all that.
"Eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee."
“sum kar jane” taking good or bad as His blessings/ hukm, no more than that. Second why should I smell Yoga
Nothing in this entire shabad says there is no yoga, or that no one needs yoga as you are saying. The shabad clearly illustrates what is needed for there to be real yoga (union with God) and that is basically sincere practice, not just words or playing the role.

Shabad states that Yoga, the prevailed one is not real one, if it were, Guru ji wouldn’t picked on it. So then what is real? It is disclosed in the Shabad, then why to think it is not against Yoga? Why do you see every where Yoga. You can say “ Union with God” is Yoga, keep saying, I am saying that it is merging with Him. So what is the problem? You commented on Guru Shabad just to distort it” brought sixth eye” from your Yoga shelf though it is not even mention here.

Now there are many hidden (I guess if unfamiliar with yogic terminology) yogic references in this shabad
That is called smelling Yoga.
. I will try and point them out with explanation to the best of my ability.
1. ਏਕਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਕਰਿਸਮਸਰਿਜਾਣੈਜੋਗੀਕਹੀਐਸੋਈ੧॥ਰਹਾਉ
eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee ||1|| rehaao ||
One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause||

Refers to a transcendent state of consciousness where you are perceiving the Oneness without duality. This is attained by opening the 6th chakra and stimulating the pineal gland to obtain a whole new brain chemistry and expand into opening dasam duar at level of 7th Sahasrara crown chakra, unfolding the thousand petalled lotus of God-consciousness.
NO, not at all. Contrary to it is about killing ego completely, it is also supported by other Guru Bhagatas Vaak” like” if I am, HE is not, when He is, I am notAJC is just dreaming about these words.
2. ਅੰਜਨਮਾਹਿਨਿਰੰਜਨਿਰਹੀਐਜੋਗਜੁਗਤਿਇਵਪਾਈਐ੨॥
anjan maahi niranjan reheeai jog jugath eiv paaeeai ||2||
Remaining unblemished in the midst of the filth of the world - this is the way to attain Yoga. ||2||

Refers to sincerity and inner purification, not outer purification practices as what will lead to true yoga (union with God). This relates to intention, that a real jogee isn't acting holy to be appreciated as a saddhu by people but is serious about doing the spiritual work to cleanse the impurities and blemishes that obstruct spiritual development.
Bhain ji, this Guru Vaak qualifies previous Guru Vaak, first ego to go, then be indifferent to Maya. Guru Nanak enjoyed this thing by living in this super state, also known as “Raj Yoga” unlike yogis, Guru ji lived as a family man but was above Maya and ego.
3. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁਭੇਟੈਤਾਸਹਸਾਤੂਟੈਧਾਵਤੁਵਰਜਿਰਹਾਈਐ
sathigur bhaettai thaa sehasaa thoottai dhhaavath varaj rehaaeeai ||
Meeting with the True Guru, doubt is dispelled, and the wandering mind is restrained.

No one can succeed in any kind of spiritual path without a Guru. Only with a God-realized Satguru can the seeker reach God-consciousness. This too is an ancient Indic tradition with roots in the Vedas and Yoga sutras.
I follow Guru and do not waste my time in attaching it to ancient wisdom because a Sikh can walk on Guru panth by following Gurbani without so called ancient wisdom. There is hint about to avoid all that, read “ ASA`Dee Vaar” (Pouri 9)
4. ਨਿਝਰੁਝਰੈਸਹਜਧੁਨਿਲਾਗੈਘਰਹੀਪਰਚਾਪਾਈਐ
nijhar jharai sehaj dhhun laagai ghar hee parachaa paaeeai ||
Nectar rains down, celestial music resounds, and deep within, wisdom is obtained.

These translations really aren't exact but they do approximate. Veer ji, this relates to the praan opening the sixth and seventh chakras. The nectar trickles into the mouth from the pineal gland. As one is developing spiritually and the dasam duar is opening, the yogis listen for 5 sounds. After this, they hear the unstruck sound, anehad shabad. True wisdom is obtained by withdrawing the life current from the outer senses to the inner. This is giving the secret to true yoga here. Without this, there is no true wisdom. These are all very well known metaphysical descriptions of enlightenment.
Bhain ji, look at the words“ nijhar jhare”, means when mind over come vice urges, mind stills from wandering in search of fulfilling urges, thensmooth natural state of mind surges, within heart He is known( parchai=introduction). It has no reference to seventh Chakras, if there were, Guru ji would have written it. He didn’t, I wouldn’t accept out side editions.
5. ਨਾਨਕਜੀਵਤਿਆਮਰਿਰਹੀਐਐਸਾਜੋਗੁਕਮਾਈਐ
naanak jeevathiaa mar reheeai aisaa jog kamaaeeai ||
O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive - practice such a Yoga.

Compare this with what was written earlier:
Yes, compare, no ego, intolerable is tolerated, no influence of Maya, this is real Yoga, not the other one.
ਜੋਗੁਬਾਹਰਿਮੜੀਮਸਾਣੀਜੋਗੁਤਾੜੀਲਾਈਐ
jog n baahar marree masaanee jog n thaarree laaeeai ||
Yoga is not wandering to the tombs of the dead; Yoga is not sitting in trances.


This refers to the praan withdrawn from the sensual sansaaric realm, the nine holes sealed to open the inner door of God-perception. And not being caught on some tantric superficial level of riddhia siddhia. Real yogic practice is not tantra or contacting lower astral spirits but activating your own God-realization.
Here it clearly rejects trances of Yogas with chakras and others pran abhyaas. Forcefully you are implying Yoga practice here. This also proves how badly you guys are gone away from Guru ji’s declaration about Yoga.
6. ਵਾਜੇਬਾਝਹੁਸਿੰਙੀਵਾਜੈਤਉਨਿਰਭਉਪਦੁਪਾਈਐ
vaajae baajhahu sinn(g)ee vaajai tho nirabho padh paaeeai ||
When the horn is blown without being blown, then you shall attain the state of fearless dignity.

contrast this with what was said earlier:
Yes please do, horn blowing is yogi’s practice, here Guru ji hinting at Ajapa Simran contrary to it.
ਜੋਗੁਮੁੰਦੀਮੂੰਡਿਮੁਡਾਇਐਜੋਗੁਸਿੰਙੀਵਾਈਐ
jog n mundhee moondd muddaaeiai jog n sinn(g)ee vaaeeai ||
Yoga is not the ear-rings, and not the shaven head. Yoga is not the blowing of the horn.


It is refering to spiritual development of real God-perception and not just the outer appearance of reaching God (practicing yoga). This is like the Radhasoamis who put their fingers in their ears to make ringing sounds and call it the anehad shabad. Guruji is teaching the correct and real yoga which is about opening the dasam duar to perceive sounds which don't exist in physical dimension and surpass even these to reach the anehad shabad.


Okay, now you tell me how this shabad is saying what you claim:
I did my best, when Guru Shabad can be distorted in favor of Yoga, what can I say more Bhain ji? Rejection of Trance (TAARI), and all other stuff, means we do not need it.

"You have read it otherwise, quite contrary to Guru ji message. I am sorry who can be lead to Yoga after reading it."

It isn't specifically talking about true yoga in this shabad? It isn't saying "yoga is not...yoga is not"..."But yoga is...yoga is"..."so become a Yogi!" (united with God). Maybe we are not reading the same shabad. So it is talking about yoga, but it's not about yoga. Explain please how this yoga referred to in Gurbani is contrary to Guruji's message...if that's Guruji's message. Guruji is the way, He is the spiritual Master, it is His path of yogic enlightenment leading to the God. Explain how I ever said Gurbani leads a person to someone like Yogi Bhajan who I don't even have association with? Is this what you're thinking?
I am thinking that you are distorting Gurbani in favor of Yoga. Take example of the very Shabad we just discussed, I wrote under what you wrote. Meaning of the Shabad doesn’t promote your Chakra-Yoga. Gurbani is not contrary at all. Distortion can make it look like it but Truth prevails. Here is the scene, looking at trances of Yogis, and their activities, Guru ji is saying” folks, this is not Yoga,” question rises, if this is not, then what is Yoga? Guru ji answers that ”to tolerate intolerable, how? By killing ego. How to live above Maya? Guru ji answers that too and calls it a real Yoga. If any group is digging it otherwise, contrary to Gurbachan, what I can do?

"Why it is necessary to call Nam simran a kind of Yoga, why this path does need help from Yoga? Why these chakras etc to understand. Reason is very simple, people also known Sikhs practiced Yoga of special kind and influenced people; some find this technique very useful to attract people. Who listens if it is simply said, “leave every thing to HIS will and live in HIS love”. A few will even listen to it. People are prone to be influenced with extra ordinary things. In Sidh Ghost, Guru ji flatly says he doesn’t have any miracle but NAAM."

First the notion that Guruji had no miracles is British. The janam sakis are full of miracle stories. But aside from the point, we know Guruji could work any miracle. It was not His purpose to come into the world with diversions but with deliverance. The Naam is a miracle so great it brought the nirgun into the sansaara. The Naam is so powerful all the other yogas are failing to accomplish what it can accomplish. Nowhere in Gurbani does it say "leave everything to His will."
“Jo kush bhave Nanaka soyee gall change” or “ tera bhana meetha lage” for what do they stand? what other meaning any one can take from those ones? It says about another way to eliminate ego. Are you telling me to stand up against His will is True Sikhi? Miracles do not attract me; it is the miracles that take people away from HIM. Janam sakhis were imaginative, so why we are discussing Janam sakhi here for God’s Sake? What is British and what is not, I literally don’t care.
As if we passively do nothing and God does everything. It says get up early and do isnaan and jap Naam. It says go to the sadhsangat and sing the kirtan of the Lord's praise. It says conquer your panj vikaars. It says meditate and remember the name of God with every breath and morsel of food. And we are instructed per hukam of Panj Piare and Akal Takht that it's important to receive amrit and keep rehit maryada. What I'm saying is, all those practices put together are Guruji's yoga, way of union with God. This path doesn't need help from yoga. Yoga needs help from this path. Because this path is true and real yoga.
You just cannot help using word Yoga even though in a way you almost agree with me

For some clarity on the 5 yogic sounds this is what Kulbir Singh Ji from Tapoban forum has explained:
Kulbir Singh? I don’t know the guy, how his saying can lead us to understand more Gurbani? I am only sticking with Guru Granth Sahib Ji, all Bhai Sahib, Baba Sahib, Sant baba or Mahan purakh, Bhrahmgyani are literally immaterial to me. If I could live as per Guru -teaching, I shall be lucky, why to waste my time on knowing other Bhai Sahib etc? Let me tell you who is guiding me
srb Drm mih sRyst Drmu ] hir ko nwmu jip inrml krmu ] sgl ik®Aw mih aUqm ikirAw ] swD sMig durmiq mlu ihirAw ] sgl audm mih audmu Blw ] hir kw nwmu jphu jIA sdw ] sgl bwnI mih AMimRq bwnI ] hir ko jsu suin rsn bKwnI ] sgl Qwn qy Ehu aUqm Qwnu ] nwnk ijh Git vsY hir nwmu ]8]3] {pMnw 266} M:star::star::star::star::star::star::star::star::star::star:
( In essence the best of all religions is to do Nam Simran and live by pure conduct. The most sublime ritual of all is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy. The best effort is to do Nam simran from heart always. The most ambrosial bani is that which praises Almighty and be on the tongue. The most sublime place, says Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Almighty abides. Mehla 5 266)
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
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Re: Sikh Names

That is called smelling Yoga.
Veer ji, I have to admit you did make me laugh. :shifty:

We are having a discussion on a particular topic which was related to Sikh names. I had opinion that amrit was necessary for the name change to be authentic and reflect what it intends, for example, "Kaur," will not mean Kaur unless you have become a true Kaur by dedicating yourself and giving your head through amrit deehkya. That is my opinion.

Then the topic went this way and that, and I was explaining Khande Ki Pahul in context of Charanamrit Pahul, and then we were discussing yoga.

Now, if we are discussing yoga in relation to a shabad which is discussing how to distinguish the false yoga from the true...

How am I smelling out yoga? Obviously that is the discussion.


1. You keep saying things like, "Yogi nostalgia distorted the meaning just to promote it. Remember, during Guru Sahiban, pirthye, and others opened shops in the name of Guru Nanak and tried to sell this kind of stuff, true Sikhs remained tuned to Guru Sahiban..."


And, "Yoga smells every where unnecessarily to Yoga promoters."

And, "In GGS ji there is example of Dhanna Bhagat who got HIS blessings with devotion not with Yoga exercises, why any one even need it for union with HIM. For physical fitness it is alright. All comes down to how to make money otherwise. Naam Simran has nothing to do with all that."


Veer ji,

What yoga am I promoting? You have taken a quote I used where Yogi Bhajan explains how pronunciation of beej mantra stimulates glands in the brain to first go on about 3HO Kundalini yoga. Next I quote Bhai Randhir Singh to talk about particular sounds which are heard as the surti progressing to unlock the dasm duar and these are also superficial to the anehad shabad, as the tuk of Gurbani was comparing Yogi's blowing horn with hearing the horn which is not blown. Somehow you are going off about sants, babas, and Jathas and how all are inferior to your interpretation because you claim to understand directly from Guru Sahib. My point is first, there is history in Sikh Panth for these kind of interpretations of Gurbani and have nothing to do with what you're alleging:

"So these are not exemplary groups to understand Gurbani."

"Above I answered it how Guru ji gives meaning to the prevailed words (used to influence people to milk money)"

"From what part of brain attaches this Shabad to Yoga (or caste system?)"


You don't even see the unfair implications you're attributing to me when I share an opinion. WHAT MONEY? I don't belong to any yoga group. I feel I am part of a Jatha but I don't get or give a single penny and no one is giving katha on yoga. It is simply explained that Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji who was recognized by all 5 Takhats as exemplary Sikh and holy man and spent most of his life in jail has written books on the subject with similar interpretation of Gurbani. I shared this to explain that even if it isn't your personal opinion, it is still a valid opinion. But why would you begin criticizing who is not an exemplary group to understand Gurbani? Are you suggested Panthic Jathas are not exemplary? Is this how you prove your personal opinion?

Next, you bring up unfavorable associations like "caste system." Why is this? Do you believe yoga has to do with Hinduism, Manu Simritis and Caste discrimination? It's all lumped together like one gigantic evil thing, and the mere mention has to do with scoundrels who steal money? Do you think you prove something by talking about caste discrimination? Are you implying that I approve of caste discrimination? I think you have programing in your own mind that word yoga has so much negative connotation that you can't even accept it in Gurbani.

Where do you come up with such negativity? Guru Sahib Himself has stated in the very shabad there is a true and wholesome yoga and become that Yogi!


Let’s talk about first terms only. Guru ji used terms related with Hinduism, Yogis, Islam, Sanyaasi etc. Those were prevailing religions or sects at his time. He had to talk and repudiate their philosophy because main purpose of life was Naam Simran and eliminating the width between HIM and us, occurs due to Maya influences (Japji). Only yogi term was not selected, so this is baseless point to say that there is presence of Yoga references in Gurbani.


Veer ji what on earth do you mean? Guru Sahib is deliberately using such terminology to talk to people from sects and religions to repudiate it all and thus the terms in Gurbani are some kind of accident of history and don't really mean what they say? This doesn't make sense. You admit the yoga terminology is in Gurbani but you reject that it means what it says. So you are redefining words to suit your own interpretation?

What is meaning of praan?
What is meaning of dhyaan?
What is meaning of chakr?
What is meaning of dasm duar?
What is meaning of vibrate on the tongue?
What is meaning of Ire, Pingala and Shushmana?

And then explain how it is all there by accident, bad translation, and whatever other excuse. All you have shown is Guru is teaching us not to fall into failures of false, hypocritical practice but to accomplish the real inner cleansing which was not available in the past and requires:

1. Satguru
2. Naam

But it doesn't say there are no no more chakrs no more tenth gate no more nine openings, no more amrit that trickles down from unlocking dasm duar. It doesn't say yoga is fake and bad don't practice anything just listen to Kirtan in Gurdwara it's good enough to liberate you. Explain please HOW you will receive Naam, and HOW you will be able to overcome your panj vikaars, and HOW you will purify your karam, and HOW you will vibrate Naam on your tongue, And HOW you will have Naam on your praan, and HOW you will seal the nine gates and unlock the tenth gate, and HOW you will have amrit-nectar trickle down onto your tongue so you can have darshan of Vaheguru and perceive the three worlds and transcend duality. How exactly does this happen veer ji? By being a married man, a householder, going to job, raising kids, going to Gurudwara and doing seva and listening to kirtan? What practices exactly are going to liberate you, and HOW?


"My source is no body but Guru Granth Sahib, Period. That source comes directly to us from our glorious Fifth Nanak."
Do you presume that your opinion reflects the full truth of Guru Sahib just because you don't believe or belong to any Jatha or read books on katha? If not, do you accept that all of us are trying to understand as best we can and share what we believe to be beautiful things? You don't have to agree. But why criticize? Why put down? Why make terribly negative associations with pakhandi babas, cheats and frauds with yoga schools and deception when I am clearly not talking about that kind of thing? What yoga did I request people to go and send money to? I said without costing a single penny read the Gurbani and practice Guruji's path of Yoga (union with God) to become a good Sikh.

Please tell where I advocated support of Bramanism or caste discrimination simply because I am pointing out references to yogic terminolgy in Gurbani which you even acknowledge is there. This is not fair to make so negative an association with my words.


"Respected Bhain ji, Raj jog means “grehsti and Faqiri” all in one. Gur parsaad means with Guru’s blessings. Guru enables the family man to live like a Faqir(totally indifferent to all Maya influences). This very context, Guru Nanak is praised as “Raja Yogi” not raja yogi as your group promotes."

What yoga group do I belong to veer ji which is so offensive to you? If I read katha by a Taksali baba or Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, how does it become a yoga group teaching against Gurbani? I'm sharing insights others have had because I find them wise and insightful. You don't disprove anything by making attack on credibility of persons or Jathas or alleging caste system, people after money or other irresponsible mistatements. Have I alleged anything like this of you?


"As I said above, Yogi Bhajan’s name came because brought it, please reread your posts you will find it."
I quoted a statement by Yogi Bhajan. That makes me a follower and practitioner of his yoga? Let's use reason. I quote a lot of people if I think the words they speak are relevent to the topic. Does that give justification to make attack on credibility or wholesomeness of persons rather than discuss the issues and ideas? Think about it. In relation to his quote which was about stimulating glands with use of the tongue while japping Gurmantara. Do you have anything to say or disagree with regarding those statements? If not, why keep going on about 3HO, kundalini and tantric yoga and so on, even after I told you I'm not affiliated with their Jatha? Reason? To simply discredit wholesomeness of persons and not address the topic, because you've said nothing about stimulating glands with Japping Mantara. It's just going on about money making yoga groups, and to be honest, I neither teach nor practice yoga and I'm not even making a single penny. So it's completely irrelevant conversation. It has no reality. But it does create stereotypes in the minds of others to prejudice opinion negatively toward what I say. Is that fair? And does that change the yoga terminology in Gurbani?

No.


"Respected Bhain ji, Raj jog means “grehsti and Faqiri” all in one. Gur parsaad means with Guru’s blessings. Guru enables the family man to live like a Faqir(totally indifferent to all Maya influences). This very context, Guru Nanak is praised as “Raja Yogi” not raja yogi as your group promotes."
Raja yoga means raja yoga. It's not even something new. Otherwise the Gurbani would read grehsti and faqiri. Think for a moment of the illogic. Guruji teaches a middle way path, to be a renunciate while being a householder. Be this kind of Yogi he says. Yet, you want to distort the translation to meaning faqir. Raja yoga is ancient, a very specific path. And it is clear to anyone with basic knowledge of yoga that raja yoga is indeed the kind of yoga Guru Nanak Dev Ji has given.

Again, translator fails to convey Guru Message; it’s not Yoga meditation, its family and faqiri together. The meaning should be,” with the teachings of Guru I have enjoyed Faqiri being family man.” Actually Shabad starts with Guru’s praise who helps to realize Him. Yogi nostalgia distorted the meaning just to promote it.
If Guruji is saying enjoy the balance of renunciation and family life, how does this condemn yoga? Unless you have the misperception that yoga is only negative, hypocritical, severe renunciation, caste system, Hinduism, etc, and that you can't be a yogi following middle path and teachings of Guru Nanak? Yet, this is exactly what the Gurbani is saying. Guru is saying be a Yogi! So obviously, this is a form of yoga.

"Above I answered it how Guru ji gives meaning to the prevailed words (used to influence people to milk money)"
So Guru Sahib only uses those terms because it was the historical prevailing view. And if He were here now it would all be modern and the words would be different? And all yoga, after all is just hypocrisy and fakery and about taking people's money?


Veer ji, do you really believe this? That is really misinformed and very prejudiced view.

It means the Vedas can take you far but they can't take you all the way. This is a radically different meaning than to say the Vedas are meaningless.
First of all Bhain ji, Sikhs do not need to study Vedas, why would you waste time on the scripture that doesn’t take to the final goal? Gurbani does and stick to it. Why craving for Vedas goes on? In above quote it is again clear all discussion of Vedas will take us to the middle. So, follow GURBANI ONLY WITHOUT DISTORTION.
Where did I say go read the Vedas? Where did say we need to study the Vedas? Again, you are taking a ball and running with it, but it is not my ball. I quoted the Gurbani which says Vedas come from God but Guru takes us directly to the source. Gurbani says Guru is the wisdom of the Vedas, so how did this become disregard and disrespect for the Vedas? It's clear we have Gurbani now and Sikh needs only this. But since I never said "go study Vedas," what is the point?


ਜੋਗਸਬਦੰਗਿਆਨਸਬਦੰਬੇਦਸਬਦੰਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਹ॥
jog sabadhan giaan sabadhan baedh sabadhan braahamaneh ||
The Way of Yoga is the Way of spiritual wisdom; the Vedas are the Way of the Brahmins.
~SGGS Ji p. 469
Again distortion, I tell you how and why? Guru ji starts with Yog dharm. Read the whole Shabad. It states “Yoga dharm is about knowledge to discuss about HIM, Brahamin’s dharm is to discuss Vedas. Khatri dharm is to do bravery acts, and low class category’s Dharm is to serve others.” After saying that, Guru ji expresses his own views, “all’s Dharm is to do His Naam Simran. Who understands this, I am his servant and he/she is like God.”
From what part of brain attaches this Shabad to Yoga (or caste system?)
Here is complete Sloke by Mehla 2 p-469
mÚ 2 ] jog sbdM igAwn sbdM byd sbdM bRwhmxh ] KqRI sbdM sUr sbdM sUdR sbdM prwik®qh ] srb sbdM eyk sbdM jy ko jwxY Byau ] nwnku qw kw dwsu hY soeI inrMjn dyau ]2] {pMnw 469}
Vaar 1 Pauri 14 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji
In this Vaar Bhai Sahib talks what others who say about it but in the end, reread what is said. It is Naam Simran that brings together Faqiri being in family life. In another line, Bhia sahib hints about yoga limitations. Again, it is used to support this failed practice.

Read the whole Shabad. It states “Yoga dharm is about knowledge to discuss about HIM, Brahamin’s dharm is to discuss Vedas. Khatri dharm is to do bravery acts, and low class category’s Dharm is to serve others.” After saying that, Guru ji expresses his own views, “all’s Dharm is to do His Naam Simran. Who understands this, I am his servant and he/she is like God.”
From what part of brain attaches this Shabad to Yoga (or caste system?)

Why do you have caste system on the brain? You just said in your own words "Yoga Dharm is about knowledge to discuss about Him." And Guruji's dharam is for us to do Naam simran.

All I said was this is a form of yoga. Which simply means a way to reach God. Never did I say convert to Hinduism, join an unscrupulous yoga group that steals your money, practice caste discrimination. The part where you don't realize yoga isn't something bad, or only related to asanas and severe practices and renunciation is where you will see reason with Gurbani saying instead become the good kind of YOGI!


ਰਾਜੁਜੋਗੁਤਖਤੁਦੀਅਨੁਗੁਰਰਾਮਦਾਸ॥
raaj jog thakhath dheean gur raamadhaas ||
Guru Raam Daas was blessed with the Throne of Raja Yoga.
~SGGS Ji p. 1399
Same point of view, translator mislead you to Yoga thing, it is not about Yoga.

"raaj jog." Which part did the translator mistranslate? The raaj or the jog?


I am glad I didn’t go through it, I noticed changes within me without all stuff you are talking about, by just trying Gurbani as motto of life. Battle needs to win within, rest physical exercises are of no use.
I'm glad you are a spiritual person. Now tell me, why do you persist in thinking yoga is just about physical postures? The thing is, yoga is actually HOW you battle the inner vikaars. And the yoga taught in Gurbani is ajaapa jap. And just japping meaningless sounds is no use, so we believe shabad-jyot from the Naad is vibrating in the Naam which gives it power to cleanse our panj dhoots, purify our karam, pierce through our chakrs and open dasm duar. And this is *cough* yoga. But don't believe it if you don't want.


Shabad states that Yoga, the prevailed one is not real one, if it were, Guru ji wouldn’t picked on it. So then what is real? It is disclosed in the Shabad, then why to think it is not against Yoga? Why do you see every where Yoga. You can say “ Union with God” is Yoga, keep saying, I am saying that it is merging with Him. So what is the problem? You commented on Guru Shabad just to distort it” brought sixth eye” from your Yoga shelf though it is not even mention here.

1. ਏਕਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਕਰਿਸਮਸਰਿਜਾਣੈਜੋਗੀਕਹੀਐਸੋਈ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee ||1|| rehaao ||
One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause||

Refers to a transcendent state of consciousness where you are perceiving the Oneness without duality. This is attained by opening the 6th chakra and stimulating the pineal gland to obtain a whole new brain chemistry and expand into opening dasam duar at level of 7th Sahasrara crown chakra, unfolding the thousand petalled lotus of God-consciousness.

NO, not at all. Contrary to it is about killing ego completely, it is also supported by other Guru Bhagatas Vaak” like” if I am, HE is not, when He is, I am not” AJC is just dreaming about these words.
I don't understand AJC.


ਨਾਨਕਜੀਵਤਿਆਮਰਿਰਹੀਐਐਸਾਜੋਗੁਕਮਾਈਐ॥
naanak jeevathiaa mar reheeai aisaa jog kamaaeeai ||
O Nanak, remain dead while yet alive - practice such a Yoga.

Compare this with what was written earlier:
Yes, compare, no ego, intolerable is tolerated, no influence of Maya, this is real Yoga, not the other one.

OMG that's what I've been saying for pages now. :rofl:


ਜੋਗੁਨਬਾਹਰਿਮੜੀਮਸਾਣੀਜੋਗੁਨਤਾੜੀਲਾਈਐ॥
jog n baahar marree masaanee jog n thaarree laaeeai ||
Yoga is not wandering to the tombs of the dead; Yoga is not sitting in trances.

This refers to the praan withdrawn from the sensual sansaaric realm, the nine holes sealed to open the inner door of God-perception. And not being caught on some tantric superficial level of riddhia siddhia. Real yogic practice is not tantra or contacting lower astral spirits but activating your own God-realization.
Here it clearly rejects trances of Yogas with chakras and others pran abhyaas. Forcefully you are implying Yoga practice here. This also proves how badly you guys are gone away from Guru ji’s declaration about Yoga.

Here it is clearly referring to tantra which uses possession states to achieve siddhis. How can you even compare this to praan abhiyaas, and the physiology of the chakr system?

Okay, to look with single eye without duality. You say it's from killing the ego completely. How do you do that veer ji? By going to Gurdwara and helping with langar seva?

Consider these tuks (you go read the whole shabad. And come back with anything which contradicts, otherwise posting whole shabad will make post unreasonably long.)

1. "Here it clearly rejects trances of Yogas with chakras and others pran abhyaas. Forcefully you are implying Yoga practice here. This also proves how badly you guys are gone away from Guru ji’s declaration about Yoga."

A. ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਸੁਖਦਾਤੇ ॥
har praan prabhoo sukhadhaathae ||
The Lord God is my praanaa, my breath of life; He is the Giver of peace.
~SGGS Ji p. 529

B. ਜਿਸ ਤੇ ਤੁਮ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੇ ॥੧॥
jis thae thum har jaanae suaamee so sathigur mael maeraa praanae ||1||
Please unite me with the True Guru, my breath of life; through Him, O my Lord and Master, You are known. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 169

C. ਹਰਿ ਭਜੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਰਸਨ ਰਸਾਇ ॥੩॥
har bhaj praanee rasan rasaae ||3||
O mortal, lovingly vibrate the Lord's Name with your tongue. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 222

D. ਸਿਮਰਤ ਸਾਸ ਗਿਰਾਸ ਪੂਰਨ ਬਿਸੁਆਸ ਕਿਉ ਮਨਹੁ ਬਿਸਾਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥
simarath saas giraas pooran bisuaas kio manahu bisaareeai jeeo ||
I remember Him in meditation with every breath and morsel of food, with perfect faith. How could I forget Him from my mind?
~SGGS Ji p. 80

E. ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਮਾਰਉ ॥
prabh apunaa saas saas samaaro ||
I dwell on my God with each and every breath.
~SGGS Ji p. 104


F. ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਰੈ ॥੩॥
saas saas jan naam samaarai ||3||
With each and every breath, they remember the Naam. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 189


2. "Here it clearly rejects trances of Yogas with chakras and others pran abhyaas. Forcefully you are implying Yoga practice here. This also proves how badly you guys are gone away from Guru ji’s declaration about Yoga."

A. ਉਲਟਤ ਪਵਨ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਖਟੁ ਭੇਦੇ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ ॥
oulattath pavan chakr khatt bhaedhae surath sunn anaraagee ||
I turned my breath inwards, and pierced through the six chakras of the body, and my awareness was centered on the Primal Void of the Absolute Lord.
~SGGS Ji p. 333



B. ਪੈਸੀਲੇ ਗਗਨ ਮਝਾਰੰ ॥
paiseelae gagan majhaaran ||
I have entered into the sky of the mind, and opened the Tenth Gate.

ਬੇਧੀਅਲੇ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਭੁਅੰਗਾ ॥
baedhheealae chakr bhuangaa ||
The chakras of the coiled Kundalini energy have been opened,

ਭੇਟੀਅਲੇ ਰਾਇ ਨਿਸੰਗਾ ॥੨॥
bhaetteealae raae nisangaa ||2||
and I have met my Sovereign Lord King without fear. ||2||

ਚੂਕੀਅਲੇ ਮੋਹ ਮਇਆਸਾ ॥
chookeealae moh maeiaasaa ||
My attachment to Maya has been eradicated;

ਸਸਿ ਕੀਨੋ ਸੂਰ ਗਿਰਾਸਾ ॥
sas keeno soor giraasaa ||
the moon energy has devoured the sun energy.

ਜਬ ਕੁੰਭਕੁ ਭਰਿਪੁਰਿ ਲੀਣਾ ॥
jab kunbhak bharipur leenaa ||
When I was focused and merged into the all-pervading Lord,

ਤਹ ਬਾਜੇ ਅਨਹਦ ਬੀਣਾ ॥੩॥
theh baajae anehadh beenaa ||3||
then the unstruck sound current began to vibrate. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 972


C. ਮੂਲ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਬੰਧਿਆ ਬੰਧੁ ॥
mool dhuaarai bandhhiaa bandhh ||
In the first chakra, the root chakra, I have grasped the reins and tied them.

ਰਵਿ ਊਪਰਿ ਗਹਿ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਚੰਦੁ ॥
rav oopar gehi raakhiaa chandh ||
I have firmly placed the moon above the sun.

ਪਛਮ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਤਪੈ ॥
pashham dhuaarai sooraj thapai ||
The sun blazes forth at the western gate.

ਮੇਰ ਡੰਡ ਸਿਰ ਊਪਰਿ ਬਸੈ ॥੨॥
maer ddandd sir oopar basai ||2||
Through the central channel of the Shushmanaa, it rises up above my head. ||2||

ਪਸਚਮ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਕੀ ਸਿਲ ਓੜ ॥
pasacham dhuaarae kee sil ourr ||
There is a stone at that western gate,

ਤਿਹ ਸਿਲ ਊਪਰਿ ਖਿੜਕੀ ਅਉਰ ॥
thih sil oopar khirrakee aour ||
and above that stone, is another window.

ਖਿੜਕੀ ਊਪਰਿ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
khirrakee oopar dhasavaa dhuaar ||
Above that window is the Tenth Gate.

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰੁ ॥੩॥੨॥੧੦॥
kehi kabeer thaa kaa anth n paar ||3||2||10||
Says Kabeer, it has no end or limitation. ||3||2||10||
~SGGS Ji p. 1159


D. ਭਾਠੀ ਗਗਨੁ ਸਿੰਙਿਆ ਅਰੁ ਚੁੰਙਿਆ ਕਨਕ ਕਲਸ ਇਕੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
bhaathee gagan sinn(g)iaa ar chunn(g)iaa kanak kalas eik paaeiaa ||
The Tenth Gate of my crown chakra is the distilling fire, and the channels of the Ida and Pingala are the funnels, to pour in and empty out the golden vat.

ਤਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰ ਚੁਐ ਅਤਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਰਸ ਮਹਿ ਰਸਨ ਚੁਆਇਆ ॥੨॥
this mehi dhhaar chuai ath niramal ras mehi rasan chuaaeiaa ||2||
Into that vat, there trickles a gentle stream of the most sublime and pure essence of all distilled essences. ||2||

ਏਕ ਜੁ ਬਾਤ ਅਨੂਪ ਬਨੀ ਹੈ ਪਵਨ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਸਾਜਿਆ ॥
eaek j baath anoop banee hai pavan piaalaa saajiaa ||
Something wonderful has happened-the breath has become the cup.

ਤੀਨਿ ਭਵਨ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਵਨੁ ਹੈ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੩॥
theen bhavan mehi eaeko jogee kehahu kavan hai raajaa ||3||
In all the three worlds, such a Yogi is unique. What king can compare to him? ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 92


E. ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਦਸਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥
no dharavaajae dhasavai mukathaa anehadh sabadh vajaavaniaa ||3||
Beyond the nine gates, the Tenth Gate is found, and liberation is obtained. The Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 110


F. ਚੰਚਲ ਚਪਲ ਬੁਧਿ ਕਾ ਖੇਲੁ ॥
chanchal chapal budhh kaa khael ||
the body is the play-thing of the fickle and unsteady intellect.

ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
no dharavaajae dhasavaa dhuaar ||
It has nine doors, and then there is the Tenth Gate.
~SGGS Ji p. 152


G. ਉਲਟਿਓ ਕਮਲੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
oulattiou kamal breham beechaar ||
The inverted heart-lotus has been turned upright, through reflective meditation on God.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰ ਗਗਨਿ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰਿ ॥
anmrith dhhaar gagan dhas dhuaar ||
From the Sky of the Tenth Gate, the Ambrosial Nectar trickles down.

ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਬੇਧਿਆ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥੧॥
thribhavan baedhhiaa aap muraar ||1||
The Lord Himself is pervading the three worlds. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 153


H. ਖਟ ਨੇਮ ਕਰਿ ਕੋਠੜੀ ਬਾਂਧੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਬੀਚ ਪਾਈ ॥
khatt naem kar kotharree baandhhee basath anoop beech paaee ||
He fashioned the body chamber with six rings, and placed within it the incomparable thing.

ਕੁੰਜੀ ਕੁਲਫੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਕਰਤੇ ਬਾਰ ਨ ਲਾਈ ॥੧॥
kunjee kulaf praan kar raakhae karathae baar n laaee ||1||
He made the breath of life the watchman, with lock and key to protect it; the Creator did this in no time at all. ||1||

ਅਬ ਮਨ ਜਾਗਤ ਰਹੁ ਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥
ab man jaagath rahu rae bhaaee ||
Keep your mind awake and aware now, O Sibling of Destiny.

ਗਾਫਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਓ ਚੋਰੁ ਮੁਸੈ ਘਰੁ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
gaafal hoe kai janam gavaaeiou chor musai ghar jaaee ||1|| rehaao ||
You were careless, and you have wasted your life; your home is being plundered by thieves. ||1||Pause||

ਪੰਚ ਪਹਰੂਆ ਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਪਤੀਆਰਾ ॥
panch peharooaa dhar mehi rehathae thin kaa nehee patheeaaraa ||
The five senses stand as guards at the gate, but now can they be trusted?

ਚੇਤਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਚਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਲੈ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
chaeth suchaeth chith hoe rahu tho lai paragaas oujaaraa ||2||
When you are conscious in your consciousness, you shall be enlightened and illuminated. ||2||

ਨਉ ਘਰ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੁ ਕਾਮਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
no ghar dhaekh j kaaman bhoolee basath anoop n paaee ||
Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing.

ਕਹਤੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਵੈ ਘਰ ਮੂਸੇ ਦਸਵੈਂ ਤਤੁ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੩॥੨੨॥੭੩॥
kehath kabeer navai ghar moosae dhasavain thath samaaee ||3||22||73||
Says Kabeer, the nine openings of the body are being plundered; rise up to the Tenth Gate, and discover the true essence. ||3||22||73||
~SGGS Ji p. 339



I. ਗਗਨਿ ਨਿਵਾਸਿ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਲਗਾਵੈ ॥
gagan nivaas samaadhh lagaavai ||
He dwells in the Tenth Gate, immersed in the Samaadhi of deep meditation.

ਪਾਰਸੁ ਪਰਸਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
paaras paras param padh paavai ||2||
Touching the philosopher's stone, he obtains the supreme status. ||2||

ਸਚੁ ਮਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਤਤੁ ਬਿਲੋਵੈ ॥
sach man kaaran thath bilovai ||
For the benefit of the mind, churn the true essence of reality;

ਸੁਭਰ ਸਰਵਰਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਧੋਵੈ ॥
subhar saravar mail n dhhovai ||
bathing in the over-flowing tank of nectar, filth is washed away.

ਜੈ ਸਿਉ ਰਾਤਾ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
jai sio raathaa thaiso hovai ||
We become like the One with whom we are imbued.
~SGGS Ji p. 411


J. ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਰਹੈ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਸਾਚੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਪਤੀਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ahinis rehai eaek liv laagee saachae dhaekh patheenaa ||1|| rehaao ||
Day and night, He remains lovingly focused on the One Lord; gazing upon the True Lord, He is pleased. ||1||Pause||

ਰਹੈ ਗਗਨ ਪੁਰਿ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਮੈਸਰਿ ਅਨਹਤ ਸਬਦਿ ਰੰਗੀਣਾ ॥੨॥
rehai gagan pur dhrisatt samaisar anehath sabadh rangeenaa ||2||
He abides in the Tenth Gate, and looks equally upon all; He is imbued with the unstruck sound current of the Shabad. ||2||

ਸਤੁ ਬੰਧਿ ਕੁਪੀਨ ਭਰਿਪੁਰਿ ਲੀਣਾ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਸੀਣਾ ॥੩॥
sath bandhh kupeen bharipur leenaa jihavaa rang raseenaa ||3||
Wearing the loin-cloth of chastity, He remains absorbed in the all-pervading Lord; His tongue enjoys the taste of God's Love. ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 907


k. ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੋਵਹੁ ਸਾਚੈ ਸੁਨਣੈ ਨੋ ਪਠਾਏ ॥੩੭॥
kehai naanak anmrith naam sunahu pavithr hovahu saachai sunanai no pathaaeae ||37||
Says Nanak, listen to the Ambrosial Naam and become holy; you were created only to hear the Truth. ||37||

ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਗੁਫਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਵਜਾਇਆ ॥
har jeeo gufaa andhar rakh kai vaajaa pavan vajaaeiaa ||
The Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body.

ਵਜਾਇਆ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਉਣ ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਕੀਏ ਦਸਵਾ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖਾਇਆ ॥
vajaaeiaa vaajaa poun no dhuaarae paragatt keeeae dhasavaa gupath rakhaaeiaa ||
He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.

ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰੈ ਲਾਇ ਭਾਵਨੀ ਇਕਨਾ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥
guradhuaarai laae bhaavanee eikanaa dhasavaa dhuaar dhikhaaeiaa ||
Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, some are blessed with loving faith, and the Tenth Door is revealed to them.
~SGGS Ji p. 922



L. ਸਬਦੁ ਭਾਖਤ ਸਸਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥
sabadh bhaakhath sas joth apaaraa ||
Giving voice to the Shabad, the moon of the mind is illuminated with infinity.

ਸਸਿ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਰੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਿਟੈ ਅੰਧਿਆਰਾ ॥
sas ghar soor vasai mittai andhhiaaraa ||
When the sun dwells in the house of the moon, the darkness is dispelled.

ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰਾ ॥
sukh dhukh sam kar naam adhhaaraa ||
Pleasure and pain are just the same, when one takes the Support of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਆਪੇ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਾਰਣਹਾਰਾ ॥
aapae paar outhaaranehaaraa ||
He Himself saves, and carries us across.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਚੈ ਮਨੁ ਸਾਚਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
gur parachai man saach samaae ||
With faith in the Guru, the mind merges in Truth,

ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਖਾਇ ॥੪੯॥
pranavath naanak kaal n khaae ||49||
and then, prays Nanak, one is not consumed by Death. ||49||

ਨਾਮ ਤਤੁ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਸਿਰਿ ਜਾਪੈ ॥
naam thath sabh hee sir jaapai ||
The essence of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is known to be the most exalted and excellent of all.

ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਕਾਲੁ ਸੰਤਾਪੈ ॥
bin naavai dhukh kaal santhaapai ||
Without the Name, one is afflicted by pain and death.

ਤਤੋ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ॥
thatho thath milai man maanai ||
When one's essence merges into the essence, the mind is satisfied and fulfilled.

ਦੂਜਾ ਜਾਇ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਨੈ ॥
dhoojaa jaae eikath ghar aanai ||
Duality is gone, and one enters into the home of the One Lord.

ਬੋਲੈ ਪਵਨਾ ਗਗਨੁ ਗਰਜੈ ॥
bolai pavanaa gagan garajai ||
The breath blows across the sky of the Tenth Gate and vibrates.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਸਹਜੈ ॥੫੦॥
naanak nihachal milan sehajai ||50||
O Nanak, the mortal then intuitively meets the eternal, unchanging Lord. ||50||
~SGGS Ji p. 943


M. ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾਹਿ ॥੫੨॥
naanak guramukh man samajhaahi ||52||
O Nanak, the Gurmukhs instruct their minds. ||52||

ਨਉ ਸਰ ਸੁਭਰ ਦਸਵੈ ਪੂਰੇ ॥
no sar subhar dhasavai poorae ||
By practicing control over the nine gates, one attains perfect control over the Tenth Gate.

ਤਹ ਅਨਹਤ ਸੁੰਨ ਵਜਾਵਹਿ ਤੂਰੇ ॥
theh anehath sunn vajaavehi thoorae ||
There, the unstruck sound current of the absolute Lord vibrates and resounds.

ਸਾਚੈ ਰਾਚੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਹਜੂਰੇ ॥
saachai raachae dhaekh hajoorae ||
Behold the True Lord ever-present, and merge with Him.
~SGGS Ji p. 943


N. ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਦਸਮ ਦੁਆਰਿ ਵਜਿਓ ਤਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਚੁਆਇਆ ਥਾ ॥੨॥
anehadh sabadh dhasam dhuaar vajiou theh anmrith naam chuaaeiaa thhaa ||2||
The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates and resounds in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Naam trickles down there. ||2||
~SGGS Ji p. 1002


The Gurbani does not say practice any other yoga than what is given by Guruji. The Gurbani clearly points out deficiencies in forceful, extreme, and hypocritical practices. No one can reach Vaheguru without the Guru's boat. Yet, the boat of Naam Guru has given is one we carry on the breath in simran which has the power to rise to the tenth gate and unlock it with sehaj. At least that is how I am reading the Gurbani. It is describing the body in the context of the hathayogic prana chakra system and teaching that all religion and yoga has failed in the Kaliyug. And Guru has come to give us the Naam.

But what is described in vibrating Naam on the tongue and with every breath and morsel of food. What is described is piercing the chakrs and sealing the bodies nine gates to open the tenth and drink the amrit-nectar which drips down from practicing ajapa jap. And for this reason the Gurbani is calling Guruji a Master Yogi. It is not a yoga of asanas or force. It is a yoga of bhagkti and bhairaag and comes about with sehaj dhyaan and devotional kirtan of the shabad. Call it any other name if you like. It is still a form of yoga. And the most concentrated, powerful, miraculous form of yoga the world has ever seen. But Gurbani cautions, we can get nowhere without sincerity. No one can hypocritically practice and obtain darshan of Vaheguru. Otherwise, even Sikhs are just falling into the failure of religious practices of the past. Our technique is Guruji's Naam. And without effort enlightenment will be reached through power of Gurshabad. But the process is being described in hathayogic physiological terminology. So we can see clearly what is occurring. Significant difference is we don't obtain by our own efforts or by physical force.


ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੈਲ ਮਲੀਨ ਅੰਗੁ ॥
bin gur mail maleen ang ||
Without the Guru, one's very fiber is stained with filth.

ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਸੁਧੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
bin har naam n sudhh hoe ||
Without the Lord's Name, one cannot become pure.
~SGGS Ji p. 1169


~Bhul chak maaf
 

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