Why Are We Not Allowed To Cut Hair When It's Ok To Cut Nails, Since Both Are Created By God?

[chazSingh]

Calling all these a disease is a disease. Using your brain to be a fine good looking or pretty person example of creation is not a disease. Creator did not give us all so we close our eyes and just chant or do simran. This is a disease of not recognizing the gift of the brain that we are given by the creator.

pa(n)ch bikhaadhee eaek gareebaa raakhahu raakhanehaarae ||
The five vicious thieves are assaulting my poor being; save me, O Savior Lord! Raag Gauree
205

you are right, the lord didnt create all this so we can shut our eyes and just chant or simran.

If we dress ourselves, and do our daily actions without the influence of Ego, Desire, Greed, Lust, Anger, attachment then we start to dress oursleves and do our daily actions beautifully instead with Pure Love, compassion, care for another, happiness for all mankind, Trust in each other, commnunity progression, forgiveness (these are the true Godly attributes amongst his infinate attributes)

Then Ambarsaria Ji, you will Truely live in the beauty of Gods beautiful creation.
then you can enjoy the lovely taste of an apple and appreciate its beauty without feeling the desire to have an apple.
Then you can appreciate all that you have in this world as a gift, without the greed for wanting more.
Then you can enjoy the creativity and engineering brilliance of a ferrari while thinking you own nothing, and nothing is actually yours and not get upset and angry if someone scratches the car or some kids kick a ball through its windscreen.
Then you can look into the eys of another less fortunate and see god deep in their heart and feed them.
Then you can enjoy the beauty of your partner without a single thought of wanting to be with another woman....not even a perverted glance at another woman in the street.
Then you can leave your kids with a complete stranger knowing they have also defeated their 5 thieves and the God in them will love and look after your kids like they are their own.

Anger, Desire, attachement, greed are all subsets of EGO.
They are all selfish traits, they are characteristics associated with pleasing one-self.
If you think these are not a disease to yourself or to mankind then what else can i say apart from what Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji has said in the above quote?

To think you are serving God is a disease. God/creator does not need your service. Living in recognition of the creation all round and doing so in positive consonance is all that is required. Simran is not a pre-requisite to it.

Satnaam Ambarsaria Ji,
The beauty of Gurbani is that it offers you an answer for everything
Please read the beow gurbani.
aapae mothee oojalo aapae bhagath baseet(h) ||
You Yourself are the perfect pearl; You Yourself are the devotee and the priest.
You Yourself are the ocean and the boat. You Yourself are this shore, and the one beyond.
thoo(n) aapae jal meenaa hai aapae aapae hee aap jaal ||
You Yourself are the water, You Yourself are the fish, and You Yourself are the net.
god is everywhere and god IS EVERYTHING...we cannot escape him...so if you help an old lady across the street...please believe 100% that you are serving his creation i.e Him. You cannot get out of this.

jin saeviaa thin paaeiaa maan ||
Those who serve Him are honored.

jo saevehi jo saevehi thudhh jee jan naanak thin kurabaanaa ||2||
Unto those who serve You, unto those who serve You, Dear Lord, servant Nanak is a sacrifice. ||2||

karo baena(n)thee sunahu maerae meethaa sa(n)th ttehal kee baelaa ||
Listen, my friends, I beg of you: now is the time to serve the Saints!

nith ahinis har prabh saeviaa sathagur dheeaa naam ||2||
Day and night, continually serve the Lord God; the True Guru has given the Naam. ||2||

How wonderful gurbani is, it answers everything: )....of course god doesnt need serving...He's the greatest there is...There is none other than god To Serve God is to Serve his creation with all the non-slefish, non Ego-centred loving attributes mentioned above. to love everyone and everything with the same love you have for your own children and family...then we understand the meaning of One.

When a mother goes through the pain of giving birth to children...if the children love and respect each other and be there for each other thorugh the good and bad times...then the children are serving the beauty of what has been created by the creator..the created, and the creator are in harmony with one another for the sole purpose of enjoying pure love...god is love literally

god bless all

 

[chazSingh]

In Sikhism there does exist a trip switch, a failsafe device designed to kick in to stop Sikhs sitting in mountains with matted hair, it is the diktat that tells us that we must live as householders, as real people, with real feelings, accomplishments, goals, desires.

Chazji, I think you are a fine person, and as stated earlier, your posts always impress me with your devotion, but there is also happiness, joy and pleasure in living as a householder, I have to agree with my Veer Ambarsariaji

Satnaam Harry ji,

The beauty if Simran is that it is to be done in the household...and not in the mountains..

Please quote where i have stated that we should sit in the mountains
We need to keep close to what each other are saying, otherwise we have to keep repeating everything over and over and people stop reading the sangats comments

Simran is more than chanting...chanting is a mechanical process...
If you add PURE Love (which is god himself, and is infinate), and if we sit, contemplate his greatness, ask him questions, listen to his answers, his guidance, feel his being that exists in each and every pore of yourself...god is your breath of life...feel your breath...vibrate the sounds of gurbani along your breath...feel the gurbani vibration thorughout your body and spine...God is the breathe of your life. Believe it, live it, feel it, experience it....THIS IS SIMRAN my friends... tune into His frequency...he's right there...inside of you.

guramath naam maeraa praan sakhaaee har keerath hamaree reharaas ||1|| rehaao ||
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Naam is my breath of life. The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my life's occupation. ||1||Pause||

so kio manahu visaareeai jaa kae jeea paraan ||
How can you forget the One who created your soul, and the praanaa, the breath of life?

jis kae jeea paraan hai man vasiai sukh hoe ||2||
He is the Giver of the soul, and the praanaa, the breath of life; when He dwells within the mind, there is peace. ||2||

eikas kaa man aasaraa eiko praan adhhaar ||
The One is the Support of the mind; the One is the Support of the breath of life.

not just a chanting of a mantra.
Let there not be any confusion in gurbani...it is as clear as night and day

god bless all

 

[Ambarsaria]

chazsingh ji thanks for your post. Some comments,

Simran is more than chanting...chanting is a mechanical process...
If you add PURE Love (which is god himself, and is infinite), and if we sit, contemplate his greatness, ask him questions, listen to his answers, his guidance, feel his being that exists in each and every pore of yourself...god is your breath of life...feel your breath...vibrate the sounds of gurbani along your breath...feel the gurbani vibration throughout your body and spine...God is the breathe of your life. Believe it, live it, feel it, experience it....THIS IS SIMRAN my friends... tune into His frequency...he's right there...inside of you.

Above is very well said. Thank you.

The only thing to watch is "Excessive Infatuation" with the regimen of Simran. Whenever we become slaves of habit, techniques, regimens, we lose a lot that our creator gifted mind has to offer.

We also always need to recognize that SGGS is not for the elite in terms of talk about vibrations and frequencies and all that. It addresses a little child, a young man, a farmer, a shopkeeper, person without formal education or a Nobel laureate. So how does it do so? Keep it simple as anyone can complicate with Grammar and other jazz but it takes a genius to simplify. Our Guru jis were in the latter category. It behooves on us to not lose sight of this.

Sat Sri Akal and thanks for your post. mundahug

 

[chazSingh]

Above is very well said. Thank you.

The only thing to watch is "Excessive Infatuation" with the regimen of Simran. Whenever we become slaves of habit, techniques, regimens, we lose a lot that our creator gifted mind has to offer.
A habit by mere definition one does almost without thinking...please re-read my personal experience and definition of Simran.
As you delve deeper into Simran...it evolves and changes...no two days are the same...and cannot be the same by the very definition of god being infinate. This cannot be explained...but only experienced..try it for a few months...what do you have to lose? do your own little experiement

We also always need to recognize that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not for the elite in terms of talk about vibrations and frequencies and all that. It addresses a little child, a young man, a farmer, a shopkeeper, person without formal education or a Nobel laureate. So how does it do so? Keep it simple as anyone can complicate with Grammar and other jazz but it takes a genius to simplify. Our Guru jis were in the latter category. It behooves on us to not lose sight of this.


As a child my Simran was to sit with my mum and say Satnaam Waheguru before i went to sleep...or when we sat in the car on a journey somewhere...or when she walked me to school...or when i felt scared or when we served langar at the temple.

That formed the strong roots to get me through some serious tests when desires, greed, attachment, anger and my ever growing Ego began to take a strangle hold of my existance, because the rememberance of these words that my mum put so much importance into would always come to mind and would allow me to focus to get through what i had to.

Now that i'm older and with gods grace still healthy and alert...my understanding has increased...my experiences of Simran thorughout the day and in meditation at night has increased.

This is a life journey. But please do not tell any child that reads the comments on this forum that they cannot sit and say the words Satnaam or Waheguru whilst feeling a longing to be by their creator Gods side. This can happen at any age.

My nephew is 4 years old...he sits and says satnaam waheguru...he may not understand why...but the very mere fact that he's sits and says these words whilst wondering and asking what the photo of guru ji is, is the beginning if his journey.

maeraa praan sakhaaee sadhaa naal chalai ||
The Companion of my breath of life shall always be with me.

madhhusoodhan maerae man than praanaa ||
The Lord is my mind, body and breath of life.

I believe in the above quotes with all my heart and a yearning to experience my Companion within myself...when i speak gurbani through the breath of my life or think gurbani in my mind...i know i am connecting with my creator that is within. If only we would believe in such gurbani quotes.

God bless all the Sangat

 

[Harry Haller]

Chazji

If this works for you then godspeed on your journey, I need to find a way of expressing myself being at odds with your thoughts without sounding like I am being critical, or that you are on the wrong path. I think you are absolutely on the right path for you, you certainly make the right noises on that front.

What concerns me slightly is that those reading who cannot feel the connection you feel, or who have an aversion to the sort of relationship you have, like myself. We need to reassure those that feel this way that all is not lost, there are many different relationships to have with Creator, some can attain the same feeling through works and understanding, certainly that is how I get my connection, simran does absolutely nothing for me, but it is not a competition, we must all help each other but also accept that there are many ways to Mukti not only within Sikhism but outside of Sikhism too

 

[chazSingh]

Kindly explain why our Gurus dressed as Royalty and were always very well turned out and also carried themselves with style and bearing

Satnaam Harry Ji,

Our Gurus dressed themselves whilst being so humble so as to think like thiis:

mai oulhageeaa oulhagee ham shhoroo thhaarae ||
I am the lowest slave of Your slaves; I am Your most humble servant.

there is a difference to dressing to represent the beauty of god creation in the mind of someone so humble that they deem themslves lower than everyone on this earth. Guru Ji, understood the true meaning of GOD IS ONE...and ALL IS GOD.

I find this statement, again, in the spirit of ascetic behaviour, there is no possession, no God living through us, it is us and always us, we are either in tune, or not

prabh nikatt vasai sabhanaa ghatt a(n)thar guramukh viralai jaathaa ||
God is close at hand; He dwells deep within the hearts of all. How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, know Him.

sehaj samaadhh lagee liv a(n)thar so ras soee jaanai jeeo ||1||
I am intuitively absorbed in the state of Samaadhi deep within. God alone knows this sweet pleasure. ||1||

ghatt ghatt biaap rehiaa bhagava(n)th ||
Deep within each and every heart, the Lord God is pervading.

a(n)thar breham n cheenee man moorakh gaavaar ||
They do not recognize God within themselves-they are so foolish and ignorant!

How beautiful and straight to the point gurbani is...
Gurbani keeps telling us that god is within us and within all of us. yet in Guru Ji;s own words we are 'foolish' and 'ignorant' and do not believe??


We will be representing God. and he will make sure we are beautifully dressed and changing the lives of the people we meet.

This starts to get dangerous, it is ok to be beautifully dressed if God has ensured that we are so, at what point do you know when God is dressing you, or you are dressing yourself?

Satnaam Harry Ji,

Only the few can describe such a state...i wont even try to
I'll let gurbani try to explain this
jio bolaavehi thio boleh suaamee kudharath kavan hamaaree ||
As You cause me to speak, so do I speak, O Lord Master. What other power do I have?

thaa mai kehiaa kehan jaa thujhai kehaaeiaa ||
When I have spoken, I spoke as You made me speak

jo thudhh bhaavai soee aakhaa thil thaeree vaddiaaee ||3||
As it pleases Your Will, I speak; it is just the tiniest bit of Your greatness. ||3||

jae ho jaanaa aakhaa naahee kehanaa kathhan n jaaee ||
Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words.

ma(n)nae kee gath kehee n jaae ||
The state of the faithful cannot be described.

jae ko kehai pishhai pashhuthaae ||
One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.

Satnaam Ambarsaria Ji, Satnaam Harry Ji,

Please for the goodness of the Sangat, if you are going to give your opinions...please make the effort to provide examples in Gurbani...
we are here to discuss Girbani and nothing else..

all is in Gurbani so find quotes, sections of gurbani, and lets discuss Sikhi the proper way

If you disagree on the meaning of gurbani, lets discuss it...but lets not tell the sangat they cannot do this or they cannot do that...Life is to experience God...

god bless all.

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji

If this works for you then godspeed on your journey, I need to find a way of expressing myself being at odds with your thoughts without sounding like I am being critical, or that you are on the wrong path. I think you are absolutely on the right path for you, you certainly make the right noises on that front.

What concerns me slightly is that those reading who cannot feel the connection you feel, or who have an aversion to the sort of relationship you have, like myself. We need to reassure those that feel this way that all is not lost, there are many different relationships to have with Creator, some can attain the same feeling through works and understanding, certainly that is how I get my connection, simran does absolutely nothing for me, but it is not a competition, we must all help each other but also accept that there are many ways to Mukti not only within Sikhism but outside of Sikhism too

Satnaam Harry Ji,

god bless you...you are correct...i too dont want to just tell the sangat that Simran is the only way...or my way is the correct way...

We need to experiment with everything and something will work for us...
that is why i always tell people to give Simran a try, daily for a few months...without missing a day...try it...record your feelings and experiences..

I pray we give everything a try with an open mind and not restrict anyone by implanting our opinions.

The quotes in gurbani are there for a reason...so that we try and experiement and experience...

appologies to the sangat if i come across in a negative or forceful way..

god bless all

 

[Luckysingh]

Of course, don't knock it until you've tried it. I mean really tried it.
You can only gain.
Harry ji, you seem to feel that it doesn't do anything for you, but did you really try it from completely within. There's a treasure within us all, it's how we find it that is important. If religion helps then use whatever faith you wish. If finding yourself helps then go ahead, if charity or seva help then be it.
Whatever path we take, the lord is not going to mind or give brownie points. Whatever religion,faith or ritual used the lord is still not going to mind. As long as we can blend and vibrate in the same frequency and light that is the lord is all that matters.
By sharing our experiences and success if one get's encouraged and gains this can only be good and beneficial for all mankind.

Satnaam Waheguru

 

[jasbirkaleka]

chazsingh ji sorry you are going over board with your generalizations and end game as for as i think.
Sat sri akal.

Well said, Ambersaria ji.

 

[Harry Haller]

Gentlemen,

I have been musing about this for the last few days..

We are all at different stages in our lives, some of us are fighting, every day, fighting to survive, fighting to move forward, fighting to sustain, and some of us just have to accept.

Allow me to explain, the fifth master, when he was on a boiling hot tava, surrounded by guards, and bearing in mind he had a statement to make, was in a mood of acceptance. He needed to show his captors that no matter what they did to him, he would accept it with grace as Hukam. Contrast this to the tenth master, at war with his enemies, was he in a mood to accept defeat? no, never.

If I were on a hot plate, I would want to be doing simram, I would want to escape to the depth of my mind and connect with the molecule of Creator and find a way to rise above what was happening around me. However, if I were on a battleground, it would be the last thing I would want to do, I would want to fight, and to be alert and extremely aware of my surroundings.

Personally, my life is a fight. My wife and I are getting close to our fifties with no assets to our name whatsoever. This is not the time for simran, this is the time to use every available resource and make a reasonable nest so that if illness comes to us, we are ready and able to deal with it, without taking a begging bowl to our relatives. Neither of us are in the best of health, but we are happy and we are at peace working our way through this with the blessings of Creator on us as we cut a path through the rough and plan our future. Meditation or simran is not going to help us, it is not going to advance us, it is not going to pay my medical bills, or put food on the table, if I was to believe it was, that then opens the door to superstition, (is not Guruji wonderful, he put food on the table because of our simran), this is not the Sikhism I wish to be part of, the worship/reward cycle can be seen in many other religions, Guru Nanak was completely aware of this, which is why if you read Mool Mantra it is patently obvious that Sikhism is an extremely pragmatic religion which shies away from the blind faith and reliance on miracles that are so popular elsewhere.

Chazji, I put it to you that your life is one of acceptance, in which case you are doing exactly the right thing for you, which is simran to gain strength to accept, but mine is one of fight, which is why I cannot even contemplate simran in any other way than in a physical manner, by which I mean to focus, to understand, to implement, to work hard, to set goals, to achieve those goals, to be prepared, but all in the spirit of Sikhi, in a manner befitting a Sikh.

That is my take on this subject

 

[chazSingh]

Well said, Ambersaria ji.

Satnaam Jasbir Ji,

Lets please give your reasoning for a certain belief or interpretation.

It would be interesting to know why you feel a certain way or where you think Shabad Guru Ji will ferry you to

 

[chazSingh]

Gentlemen,

I have been musing about this for the last few days..

We are all at different stages in our lives, some of us are fighting, every day, fighting to survive, fighting to move forward, fighting to sustain, and some of us just have to accept.

Allow me to explain, the fifth master, when he was on a boiling hot tava, surrounded by guards, and bearing in mind he had a statement to make, was in a mood of acceptance. He needed to show his captors that no matter what they did to him, he would accept it with grace as Hukam. Contrast this to the tenth master, at war with his enemies, was he in a mood to accept defeat? no, never.

Satnaam Harry Ji, you have explained the Guru ji's actions with the emotions of your mind as they understand things in the finite world. We cannot even for a second describe the state of the guru's being. If you were One with God, Connected to each molicule of the creation and everything beyond. Saw only god in everything...who can hurt you? who can upset you? who can defeat you? If all is god, where is the enemy? who is the enemy if all is God? It's only when your consciousness starts to expand the limitations of your mind through Simran can any one if us start to understand this. 5th Master saw no enemies, His enemy was the 5 thieves that controlled the beautiful souls that lay within the moghul soldiers (yes, they had BEAUTIFUL SOULS)...please understand this (the 5 THIEVES were the enemy)... and by Gods grace he accepted NO DEFEAT by his actions....He showed to everyone, including the minds that carried out the act that you can destroy the dust that is our physical body, but the God in each of us you cannot destroy. He already knew that Death does not exist...that there is no Death of the Consciousness that resides in us. He could have turned the world upside down and destroyed these so called enemies with the mere thought...but what would that have showed the rest of us, the rest of us that are being held by our hair by the 5 thieves also? the whole world would have been attached to the site of the Miracle instead of the divine meaning in the actions itself (which is the true miracle)

All these actions are there to spark something inside all of us...to make us stop and think for a second the deep meaning behind these actions...to connect us even for a second to our heart and soul and think


If I were on a hot plate, I would want to be doing simram, I would want to escape to the depth of my mind and connect with the molecule of Creator and find a way to rise above what was happening around me. However, if I were on a battleground, it would be the last thing I would want to do, I would want to fight, and to be alert and extremely aware of my surroundings.
On the battle gound, with a thousand swords and spears heading your way...would you have the time and thought to want to stop, aid the wounds of this so called enemy? would you put gold on each of your arrows to aid the families of the dead who hit the might of your arrows?
when all they want to do is kill you and hang you out to dry.
On the battlefield when you saw the anger and hate of the enemy would you be able to see the light of their souls and want to free them of their diluded minds?

Personally, my life is a fight. My wife and I are getting close to our fifties with no assets to our name whatsoever. This is not the time for simran, this is the time to use every available resource and make a reasonable nest so that if illness comes to us, we are ready and able to deal with it, without taking a begging bowl to our relatives. Neither of us are in the best of health, but we are happy and we are at peace working our way through this with the blessings of Creator on us as we cut a path through the rough and plan our future. Meditation or simran is not going to help us, it is not going to advance us, it is not going to pay my medical bills, or put food on the table, if I was to believe it was, that then opens the door to superstition, (is not Guruji wonderful, he put food on the table because of our simran), this is not the Sikhism I wish to be part of, the worship/reward cycle can be seen in many other religions, Guru Nanak was completely aware of this, which is why if you read Mool Mantra it is patently obvious that Sikhism is an extremely pragmatic religion which shies away from the blind faith and reliance on miracles that are so popular elsewhere.

Mool Mantra describes also your true potential...your TRUE IDENTITY i.e SATNAAM, that your true identity is fearless, that your true identity is without hate, that you have been since the dawn of time, through the ages and forever shall be....that you came from the one EK, from his sound (ONG) and now exist within his creation (KAAR). what lies in you...your true being is the Sat Naam that when you realise who you are...you wont be worrying about your nest...or how much money you have saved...that when you give you mind body and soul to the guru and serve him, that the whole universe will serve you...the guru will take care of everything....you will see no difference in good or bad.

The shabad guru - sounds of the vibrations of the gurbani that destrys the EGO which is telling you that you have no time for Simran and that it's pointless...

A scientist in Japan did an experient on water. He shouted abuse to water...froze the water then analyzed the water crystals...the water crystals look HIDEOUS...he analyzed water crystals that were blessed by budhist munks, the crystals were sharp, defines, and of a beautiful pattern....He said i love you to a glass of water for several days...again the crystals were extraordinarily PURE...
If words can have that much effect on water.....remember you are 60% water...imagine what sounds of Gurbani, when you sit with your eyes closed and say Satnaam Waheguru can do to your whole being...
There is never a bad time to take out 30 minutes to an hour of your time.

This is what i truely believe and i dont think you should just dismiss because of your age and situation.


Chazji, I put it to you that your life is one of acceptance, in which case you are doing exactly the right thing for you, which is simran to gain strength to accept, but mine is one of fight, which is why I cannot even contemplate simran in any other way than in a physical manner, by which I mean to focus, to understand, to implement, to work hard, to set goals, to achieve those goals, to be prepared, but all in the spirit of Sikhi, in a manner befitting a Sikh.

God bless you. I am no spiritual guide...nor have i achieved any state of mind or know the eternal truth...
All we can do is make some effort...and ask Guru Ji to sit with you and remember his naam.

That is my take on this subject

God bless all

 

[Harry Haller]

Chazji

There was a time not so long ago, I could have accepted what you say and understood, but the more you write, the more I am convinced that what you are suggesting is Udasi Sikhism.

Satnaam Harry Ji, you have explained the Guru ji's actions with the emotions of your mind as they understand things in the finite world. We cannot even for a second describe the state of the guru's being.

I disagree, the Guru's were human beings, just like you and me, We aspire to be like them, and I believe it is possible to be like them. It is not possible to aspire to be Creator, but the Gurus achieved what mortal human beings achieved as a shining example to us all.

If you were One with God, Connected to each molicule of the creation and everything beyond. Saw only god in everything...who can hurt you? who can upset you? who can defeat you? If all is god, where is the enemy? who is the enemy if all is God? It's only when your consciousness starts to expand the limitations of your mind through Simran can any one if us start to understand this. 5th Master saw no enemies, His enemy was the 5 thieves that controlled the beautiful souls that lay within the moghul soldiers (yes, they had BEAUTIFUL SOULS)...please understand this (the 5 THIEVES were the enemy)... and by Gods grace he accepted NO DEFEAT by his actions....He showed to everyone, including the minds that carried out the act that you can destroy the dust that is our physical body, but the God in each of us you cannot destroy. He already knew that Death does not exist...that there is no Death of the Consciousness that resides in us. He could have turned the world upside down and destroyed these so called enemies with the mere thought...but what would that have showed the rest of us, the rest of us that are being held by our hair by the 5 thieves also? the whole world would have been attached to the site of the Miracle instead of the divine meaning in the actions itself (which is the true miracle)

Sorry, but again, I would press that the Gurus were human beings incapable of miracles. They had no more ability to destroy their enemies with magic than I could. To suggest that miracles could exist is in my view a gross insult to the achievement of enlightenment that existed in the 10 Masters. Miracles are for magicians not pragmatic realistic focused humans.

All these actions are there to spark something inside all of us...to make us stop and think for a second the deep meaning behind these actions...to connect us even for a second to our heart and soul and think

On the battle gound, with a thousand swords and spears heading your way...would you have the time and thought to want to stop, aid the wounds of this so called enemy? would you put gold on each of your arrows to aid the families of the dead who hit the might of your arrows?
when all they want to do is kill you and hang you out to dry.
On the battlefield when you saw the anger and hate of the enemy would you be able to see the light of their souls and want to free them of their diluded minds?


Please spare me the bleeding heart liberal view here, Bhai Kanhaiya did not go round helping soldiers in the thick of battle, he helped all soldiers, Sikh and Muslim, after the battle. Again gold arrowheads were applied before fighting, not during. As for seeing the anger and hate on the battlefield, all I can say is I am glad that the battle was fought by Nihangs, who were known for their ferocity rather than their ability to see the light in the enemy. There is a time for seeing light in everyone, and there is a time to smite the enemy. If a man breaks into your house and tries to rape your wife, are you going to attempt to see his light, or break his neck?

Mool Mantra describes also your true potential...your TRUE IDENTITY i.e SATNAAM, that your true identity is fearless, that your true identity is without hate, that you have been since the dawn of time, through the ages and forever shall be....that you came from the one EK, from his sound (ONG) and now exist within his creation (KAAR). what lies in you...your true being is the Sat Naam that when you realise who you are...you wont be worrying about your nest...or how much money you have saved...that when you give you mind body and soul to the guru and serve him, that the whole universe will serve you...the guru will take care of everything....you will see no difference in good or bad.

This stands for everything within Sikhism I find offensive, the Guru will not take care of everything, the only person that can take care of me is me! Suggesting that I do not worry about my financial future and spend the rest of my days in quiet contemplation of Guruji is not how I see Sikhism. Sikhism gives us the tools to live in Mukti every day, by gaining knowledge and enlightenment we can follow Hukam through understanding, not by passing the buck. This is in my view a very dangerous path that breeds ritual, superstition and expectation.


The shabad guru - sounds of the vibrations of the gurbani that destrys the EGO which is telling you that you have no time for Simran and that it's pointless...

If its sounds we are talking about rather than meanings, then the latest pop song could do the same trick

Chazji, if what you do works for you then great, but what I do, works for me, and without the need for me to attempt to preach or convert others.

I have no time for pixies, goblins, fantasies, miracles or pleasing God. All I know is the truth and the truthful way to live,.

Apologies for my bluntness, but I have been biting my tongue on this for a while, forgive me if I have offended you in any way, that is not my intention, but readers should be aware of the two sides to the coin

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji

There was a time not so long ago, I could have accepted what you say and understood, but the more you write, the more I am convinced that what you are suggesting is Udasi Sikhism.

Satnaam Harry Ji, you have explained the Guru ji's actions with the emotions of your mind as they understand things in the finite world. We cannot even for a second describe the state of the guru's being.

I disagree, the Guru's were human beings, just like you and me, We aspire to be like them, and I believe it is possible to be like them. It is not possible to aspire to be Creator, but the Gurus achieved what mortal human beings achieved as a shining example to us all.

I agree they were human, but their limitations were not controlled by what their mind said that they could achieve. what lay within them was God..which is also the same God that lays within us. I beleive with Guru Ji's grace we can all achieve what they achieved...otherwise there was no point in them showing us and explaining to us everything.

Sorry, but again, I would press that the Gurus were human beings incapable of miracles. They had no more ability to destroy their enemies with magic than I could. To suggest that miracles could exist is in my view a gross insult to the achievement of enlightenment that existed in the 10 Masters. Miracles are for magicians not pragmatic realistic focused humans.

We are surrounded everyday by the miracles of god...we cannot escape them You miss my point...the Guru ji's were one with God and had all Gods creative might. It was a miracle to the onlookers that saw not a single flinch of disturbance in 5th Guru Ji's face. Define a miracle...to the rest of us that are confined to the limits of our mind...certain things look like a miracle....to the Guru's being able to withstand the planned torture and sit in peace whilst japping naam was something they showed us that we have a god given right to.


All these actions are there to spark something inside all of us...to make us stop and think for a second the deep meaning behind these actions...to connect us even for a second to our heart and soul and think

Please spare me the bleeding heart liberal view here, Bhai Kanhaiya did not go round helping soldiers in the thick of battle, he helped all soldiers, Sikh and Muslim, after the battle. Again gold arrowheads were applied before fighting, not during. As for seeing the anger and hate on the battlefield, all I can say is I am glad that the battle was fought by Nihangs, who were known for their ferocity rather than their ability to see the light in the enemy. There is a time for seeing light in everyone, and there is a time to smite the enemy. If a man breaks into your house and tries to rape your wife, are you going to attempt to see his light, or break his neck?

ofcourse you would if you had to...if that was the only option..
when all other means will not work, it's ok to draw the sword..
In my opinion, the brave sikhs that have fought over the ages were one with Naam, with the light within...this is why they were able to achieve what they did and were able to show us what we can all achieve.

This stands for everything within Sikhism I find offensive, the Guru will not take care of everything, the only person that can take care of me is me! Suggesting that I do not worry about my financial future and spend the rest of my days in quiet contemplation of Guruji is not how I see Sikhism. Sikhism gives us the tools to live in Mukti every day, by gaining knowledge and enlightenment we can follow Hukam through understanding, not by passing the buck. This is in my view a very dangerous path that breeds ritual, superstition and expectation.

I only kindly suggested that a half hour to an hour every day is that a lot of time to put to one side out of the 24 hours in a day?
I am not asking you to stop worrying about eveything..we all have to be pro-active...i'm kindly suggesting that all those worries or concerns you have shouldnt stop you from giving a small amount of your time to Simran. But the decision in the end is yours satnaam Harry Ji. We're just discussing things on a forum.

The shabad guru - sounds of the vibrations of the gurbani that destrys the EGO which is telling you that you have no time for Simran and that it's pointless...

If its sounds we are talking about rather than meanings, then the latest pop song could do the same trick.

I do not see britney spears in the SGGS Ji
comparing the shabad guru to the pop songs we hear on T.V is impossible.
But, certain pop songs and melodies can give you that tingle in your body..make your hairs stand on end and give you a sense of joy and upliftment. and those are just songs written by Manmukhs....imagine what effects the shabads of Gurmukhs, guru ji's are capable of if we only believe and open our hearts

Chazji, if what you do works for you then great, but what I do, works for me, and without the need for me to attempt to preach or convert others.
No preaching Brother. Sometimes an enourmous amount of love wells up inside me and I open my Gob and splurt out everything i feel inside...just opinions, feelings, joy, I just write whatever comes to me that i feel connects to gurbani....what I really am is a daily sinner with a mind of filth who doesnt want to continue living in a way i know is not right

I have no time for pixies, goblins, fantasies, miracles or pleasing God. All I know is the truth and the truthful way to live,.

If you woke up on earth alone...with no one else around you...wondered who you were or how you came about....and then you bump into someone else and he tells you that you came from something that looks like a tadpole called sperm that interacted with a female egg...would you believe them? point is we are surrounded by Gods greatness and mind boggling miracles. even this second...your cells are dying and being replaced by new cells...who drives this, what provides the force...such beautiful godly greatness


Apologies for my bluntness, but I have been biting my tongue on this for a while, forgive me if I have offended you in any way, that is not my intention, but readers should be aware of the two sides to the coin

brothers do not apologise to each other. We are merely expressing opinions without any animosity

God bless the Sangat

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji

There was a time not so long ago, I could have accepted what you say and understood, but the more you write, the more I am convinced that what you are suggesting is Udasi Sikhism.

Satnaam Harry Ji,

First time I have come across this term Udasi Sikhism
My views have honestly just come from my reading of gurbani, sitting in the gurdwara and meditating/simran because that is what i thought SGGS Ji was telling me...

I may be doing wrong...but my heart is yearning...calling out...
is this a bad thing? and does it belong only to some sect or version of sikhi?

God bless all

 

[Harry Haller]

Satnaam Harry Ji,

First time I have come across this term Udasi Sikhism
My views have honestly just come from my reading of gurbani, sitting in the gurdwara and meditating/simran because that is what i thought Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was telling me...

I may be doing wrong...but my heart is yearning...calling out...
is this a bad thing? and does it belong only to some sect or version of sikhi?

Absolutely not, you are following your heart, just like I follow mine, I am pleased that you are finding your own path, its brilliant to read, and its brilliant to follow, I would never ever ask you to change your path or your thinking, just allow that other Sikhs exist that do not share your thoughts, and have their own way, their own path, my way has been through women, drugs, gambling,prison,bankruptcy excesses in all areas, that is how I gained my understanding, by having the **** kicked out of me through my actions in life, I would no more advocate this as a useful way of learning than I would advocate the path you have chosen. It is not how we came to our conclusions that is important, it is our conclusions themselves.

We both appear to have the same conclusions, and that is wonderful, but there appears to be a pattern of insisting others try the same things that have brought you to your path, this can make some people insecure or unsure about their own path, I do not like to see this, all paths can be valid, even one as disgusting as mine, but you cannot see into anothers heart or know what it will take to make them see enlightenment, your pressing of others to do Simran could end up making a pragmatic and practical person lose himself in Simran in the hope that 'god will take care of everything' and have awful consequences. It is not a responsibility I would want............

 

[chazSingh]

The method is to experiement...

what we shouldnt say is that something is right and something is wrong...
what we should be doing is sharing experiences and wishing all the very best if they try certain methods...and to come back and share those experiences...

and that is all it is....

 

[Ambarsaria]

The method is to experiement...

what we shouldnt say is that something is right and something is wrong...
what we should be doing is sharing experiences and wishing all the very best if they try certain methods...and to come back and share those experiences...

and that is all it is....

One person's remedy can be a poison for some other mode.

Search the Homeopathic Remedy "Lachesis" and see how it works. A wonderful remedy for the right symptoms and person.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Archived_member14]

Harry ji,

I am responding to your post because it contains a few points I'd like to address. And I am going to be straightforward, but I hope that this will have a positive effect sometime down the road.

I disagree, the Guru's were human beings, just like you and me, We aspire to be like them, and I believe it is possible to be like them.

You don't aspire to be like anyone. To think in such terms is to be moved by conceit and blinded by ignorance. Just because we are all humans doesn’t mean that we are equal in terms of potential for good and evil. You hear words of wisdom with regard to what is right and wrong course of action and you appreciate this in accordance to your level of understanding / accumulations. To think to emulate and be like anyone is to be driven by attachment and conceit instead of knowing who you are. This latter is the only valid base from which any further development in wisdom and other good can happen, because otherwise it is overreaching and we end up deluding ourselves.

Sorry, but again, I would press that the Gurus were human beings incapable of miracles. They had no more ability to destroy their enemies with magic than I could. To suggest that miracles could exist is in my view a gross insult to the achievement of enlightenment that existed in the 10 Masters. Miracles are for magicians not pragmatic realistic focused humans.

Whether or not any particular person is capable of miracles, this you know not by comparing yourself with others. Because when this is the case, it is conceit and not the understanding of the moment to moment experiences whereby one comes to get a glimpse as to one's own limitations, namely the pasture around which one's thinking moves. Enlightenment includes the knowledge about what happens within the spectrum and also what is above and below.

As for seeing the anger and hate on the battlefield, all I can say is I am glad that the battle was fought by Nihangs, who were known for their ferocity rather than their ability to see the light in the enemy. There is a time for seeing light in everyone, and there is a time to smite the enemy. If a man breaks into your house and tries to rape your wife, are you going to attempt to see his light, or break his neck?

You suggest that others are taking a dangerous path, but what you state above is one of the grossest forms of wrong understanding and very dangerous.

Whatever was behind the actions of those people, you are however making what is essentially evil appear as good in your attempt to explain and justify. Ferocious and not seeing the good in the enemy is obviously not an instance of kindness or of compassion. Is it moral restraint, generosity, sympathetic joy, shame and fear of wrong doing? Is it motivated by faith in good? Obviously not. So what is it?

Sounds like aversion to me. But not only this, there is also a sense of self-righteousness there. And you also suggested that “there is a time for seeing light in everyone, and there is a time to smite the enemy”. And so we have, discouragement of kindness, promoting aversion, promoting killing and encouraging conceit. And given that you distinguish enemy from friend the way you do, it is likely that what you feel toward the latter is not kindness but in fact attachment and this is what you end up encouraging in the process.

Which direction are you facing and where do you expect to arrive?!!

A wise man once said to the effect that, the person who answers to anger with anger is worse of the two. This is because he acts out with anger in spite of just having experienced how unpleasant it is to be the receiver of anger. This wise man then suggested that reacting to anger with kindness is equivalent to a battle hard won.

So really there is no enemy other than one's own defilements and no victory except when wisdom and other kinds of good arise! What do you think differentiates a wise man from a fool? Is it not that the fool acts out his ignorance, attachment, aversion and does not know what is the correct Path to take? Is not the wise man one who does not react to other people’s wrong with wrong but in seeing the value of good, acts accordingly?

We all have a lot of defilements, and knowing myself, I'm quite sure that I’d try to kill anyone who is a threat to the lives of those I am attached to. But do I think that this is a good thing? No I do not. What I see is that attachment is harmful, so is conceit and aversion. What I understand also, is that worse of all is wrong understanding, especially when this leads to justifying evil. Because while I still have so much defilements and aeons away from being rid of them, I know that if I don't understand them for what they are, I'd end up not only increasing but actually *encouraging* them.

So the first step is always Wisdom. Indeed it is that which is in between as well as what is in the end. Otherwise we have attempts for example, to fight the five thieves but invariably encourage attachment to self, conceit and other kinds of evil. But this is another topic which if you are interested, we can discuss.

Back to the topic above; given that your view regarding what is good and bad, right and wrong is one which is dependent on the context, I wonder if this is the reason why you resist the teachings regarding karma. Since the law of cause and effect which is karma dictates that for every action there is a corresponding result, meaning good deeds results in good effects and bad deeds in bad, this doesn't allow for the kind of justification for evil deeds as you have done above.

When placed in context of a given situation, not only any good is made to inflate and evil overlooked, but as above, the evil is made to appear good, all by force of attachment, conceit and wrong understanding. And this is being irresponsible and shows lack of courage and sincerity. Instead of knowing and accepting that one has little capacity for good and much unwholesome tendencies, one hides behind a 'situation' painted, which then serves not only to fool oneself, but other people as well.

Chazji, if what you do works for you then great, but what I do, works for me, and without the need for me to attempt to preach or convert others.

And I have to say that I am put off by such kind of suggestions especially when in what preceded you were making the point about how wrong Chaz’s views are in light of your knowledge about Sikh teachings. But perhaps you want to explain more…..?

I have no time for pixies, goblins, fantasies, miracles or pleasing God. All I know is the truth and the truthful way to live,.

You say this, but I doubt it. Your confidence with regard to the unreality of pixies, goblins etc. and the wrongness of trying to please God, appears to be due simply to holding onto a different set of illusions and not to knowing the Truth. Sorry.

Apologies for my bluntness, but I have been biting my tongue on this for a while, forgive me if I have offended you in any way, that is not my intention, but readers should be aware of the two sides to the coin

And don’t mind my bluntness. There are some good intentions here. ;-)

 

[gurjeet1972]

Re: Why are we allowed to cut nails but not hair?

Harinder Kaur Ji,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my query. I appreciate that you have tried to respond using logic and reason as I was indeed looking for such an answer. After all logical and critical thinking is what separates true path from blind superstitious beliefs.

Unfortunately, being an advanced science student myself, I had to check the validity of the statements made in the article. And it seems majority of the article you quoted is using false assumptions, some blatant fallacies and cyclic reasoning.


False. Majority of men tend to loose their hair after certain age irrespective of their religion. It's called male pattern baldness. Also, all statements about hair needed for protection of skull seem false as that would mean that older men don't need any protection of their skull.


Again, since the previous statements were false, this assumption doesn't hold true. Also, scientific research has shown that hairs are devoid of any neurons and if their is any damage to hair except at follicles, their is no feedback mechanism to communicate the damage to our body.


Not true. Aesthetics aside, a healthy (finger)nail has the function of protecting the distal phalanx, the fingertip, and the surrounding soft tissues from injuries. It also serves to enhance precise delicate movements of the distal digits through counter-pressure exerted on the pulp of the finger. [1] The nail then acts as a counterforce when the end of the finger touches an object, thereby enhancing the sensitivity of the fingertip,[10] even though there are no nerve endings in the nail itself. Finally, the nail functions as a tool, enabling for instance a so called "extended precision grip" (e.g. pulling out a splinter in one's finger).



This is a false statement in regard to nail's strength. Our nails are as strong as hooves of a horse. You can read about it on 'new scientist' site - http://tinyurl.com/2chv6aw
And even if for a moment we assume that hairs have more strength, how does that prove them to be superior to nails. It's like saying since our 'Cardiac muscle tissue' is not as strong as hair so it's not as important!



In my opinion this is all the more reason why we need to save nails instead of Hairs. We are supposed to conserve things which are scarce as compared to things which are abundant.




Let us not even go there. Long hair are not more practical. Try making microscopic slides with long free flowing beard. Try working with semi-conductor wafers with long beard. Try working in a cafeteria with long beard and long hair or try working with heavy machinery in a factory. I am not saying it can't be done just that you have to be extra cautious with long hair while doing these activities. At the end of the post, you yourself said that it can be a bit annoying at times.

And in the beginning of article their was a statement about how hair and nails originate from different layers of skins. Fact is both hair and nails are made up of protein called 'keratin'. Both are devoid of any nerves or blood vessels and both are considered dead tissue or appendages to skin. So the article just tries to confuse and doesn't really answer anything.


I respect your belief. But the problem that our community is facing now days is that youngsters are not ready to blindly follow. We need to know why our Gurus chose a way of life, what is its spiritual significance and why does that bring us closer to God. And this generation can't be blamed for just seeking answers.

As I said before, logical and critical thought is what separates a true path from blind superstition.

I hope someone can help answer my original question!
Thanks.

Gurfateh

My elders have informed me that our Gurus have laid their life for the sake of humanity. Our tenth Guru Gobind Singh JI has founded the Khalsa panth . While fighting with moughals to save the people of punjab our guruji wandered from place to place helping the needy from the tortures of moughals .They used to ride horses so fast to reach the places for immediate help with their fellow men many used to get hurt while learning the skills of warrior . They used to wander from place to place had no time for hair cut. They cleaned and maintained their hair and protected the soft part of the skull by making jura(rolling hair) and tied a cloth i.e. turban which protected the head/skull as an helmet. The nihaangs used to put a khanda around their turbans. Which protected them from head injury. A group was organised to save people like this. They were identified with their roop(dressing of turban). Then many women have also joined the group. As they never stayed at one place and had to rush immediatedly they use to wear long knickers called kacchera which was very easy for them to climb or mount the horse at the time of immediate action. Women in the group also had to bathe it was advised to wear long kaccheras and keep kirpaans with them and wear karas for their protection. since then to maintain cleanlinesss of the hair a kanga is kept along with hair . all the five Ks kanga kesh kachhera kada and kirpan had become the identity of this warrior kaum. When khalsa panth's sajna diwas was held on baisakhi in the year 1699 since then they have become our identity.


as then they had no time cook food and wait for long time . The quick energy giving Kada parshad was cooked and distributed among all the warrior group after the ardaas wand ke chhako. so it was cut by the kirpaan for dividing and distributing


are u convinced now