Who Is Closest To God?

Satyaban · Mar 21, 2010

I should have read every post before I took action but I thought there was only one page. I think a claim of exclusivity of the truth has been made. So I will amend my responses to those several questions.

The correct answer to all of them is the Prophet Muhammad, his companions and the infallibles.

So I guess my answer to who was the greatest being Muhammed Ali was close. LOL LOL

Peace

Tejwant Singh · Mar 21, 2010

Divine Pouring ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

That is what I’m trying to do here. As I have mentioned I am officially a Muslim, although I do feel like an embarrassment to the religion sometimes. I have had some exposure through my instructors of the reasons why Muslims believe the Prophet, peace be upon him, to be the greatest of all creation.

I have some questions about what you mentioned above.

1. What is a Prophet?
2. Is it a title?
3. Who gave this title to Mohammed?
4. What does a Prophet do, his duties or responsibilities?
5. How can one become a Prophet?
6. What evidence do you have that makes you believe- your words,"why Muslims believe the Prophet, peace be upon him, to be the greatest of all creation"?

And also please check my post under the following thread which also concerns Islam and respond to it.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/29589-another-cartoon-traumatizes-the-muslim-community.html

It is post number 3.

Thanks and hope to learn from you about your religion.

Tejwant Singh

Astroboy · Mar 21, 2010

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਬਾਟ ਕਾ ਤਜਿ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
कबीर रोड़ा होइ रहु बाट का तजि मन का अभिमानु ॥
Kabīr roṛā ho▫e rahu bāt kā ṯaj man kā abẖimān.
Kabeer, let yourself be a pebble on the path; abandon your egotistical pride.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਤਾਹਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥੧੪੬॥
ऐसा कोई दासु होइ ताहि मिलै भगवानु ॥१४६॥
Aisā ko▫ī ḏās ho▫e ṯāhi milai bẖagvān. ||146||
Such a humble slave shall meet the Lord God. ||146||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਪੰਥੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੇਇ ॥
कबीर रोड़ा हूआ त किआ भइआ पंथी कउ दुखु देइ ॥
Kabīr roṛā hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā panthī ka▫o ḏukẖ ḏe▫e.
Kabeer, what good would it be, to be a pebble? It would only hurt the traveler on the path.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਐਸਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਧਰਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਹ ॥੧੪੭॥
ऐसा तेरा दासु है जिउ धरनी महि खेह ॥१४७॥
Aisā ṯerā ḏās hai ji▫o ḏẖarnī mėh kẖeh. ||147||
Your slave, O Lord, is like the dust of the earth. ||147||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਬੀਰ ਖੇਹ ਹੂਈ ਤਉ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਜਉ ਉਡਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਅੰਗ ॥
कबीर खेह हूई तउ किआ भइआ जउ उडि लागै अंग ॥
Kabīr kẖeh hū▫ī ṯa▫o ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā ja▫o ud lāgai ang.
Kabeer, what then, if one could become dust? It is blown up by the wind, and sticks to the body.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸਰਬੰਗ ॥੧੪੮॥
हरि जनु ऐसा चाहीऐ जिउ पानी सरबंग ॥१४८॥
Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai ji▫o pānī sarbang. ||148||
The humble servant of the Lord should be like water, which cleans everything. ||148||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਨੀ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਸੀਰਾ ਤਾਤਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
कबीर पानी हूआ त किआ भइआ सीरा ताता होइ ॥
Kabīr pānī hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā sīrā ṯāṯā ho▫e.
Kabeer, what then, if one could become water? It becomes cold, then hot.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜੈਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੪੯॥
हरि जनु ऐसा चाहीऐ जैसा हरि ही होइ ॥१४९॥
Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai jaisā har hī ho▫e. ||149||
The humble servant of the Lord should be just like the Lord. ||149||
</td></tr></tbody></table>

ballym · Mar 21, 2010

I raised this discussion with my wife and her reply was that if prophet Mohammed is the ultimate, then why he is not availabe to all. I mean why God has not made sure that everyone realises that all other roads lead to hell.
This ego supports the idea of annihilation of others. Some muslims ( may be most) may not get that feeling but ... by instilling fear, a handful people( like taliban terrorising entire world or Bhindranwale group ruling over Punjab for those few years..... remember Punjab Roadways services stopping at 5 PM?) are able to snatch the undue limelight.

So all religion are similar outwardly but are different in details. These details make the difference.
That is why looking at other religions is useful in understanding our own religion by birth.
I guess, this discussion is leading to waste of time... or strengthening our beliefs( find good things in everything).

gur_meet · Mar 21, 2010

divine outpouring said:
Ok, I think I’m beginning to understand now. What Sikhs are looking for when searching for truth is not something that can be seen with the external senses. That makes sense (no pun intended), however, a question arises: can we recognise greatness with the external senses and rational thought alone? Or is greatness, of the sort attributed to the gurus, to be seen with the heart alone.

If greatness can be seen externally then what are those external signs that make you choose the Gurus over the rest of mankind?

If it can only be seen internally then greatness is an entirely subjective experience, as we’d have no means by which to agree on its definition.

Divine Outpouring ji

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cmini%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cmini%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cmini%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

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oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> What external signs there could be? These are so deceptive. The dress, the followers, the assertions, the practices are all so enticing but always when we look at the life of Bhagats and saints it is found that it has always been the inner knowing that decided the path. The Gursikhs who initially came to the Guru decided to be Sikh though an internal decision. Yes, this is it would have been the deciding factor.
The rational thought or an external sign is not always right. Most of the time it is rationalizing the belief being held dear. The internal decision is not always an emotional swaying. One just knows that what has been found is the truth.
The spiritual path is akin to a search. Out of the visible signs we have to search the hidden truth. The words of a Guru strike a chord only when we are prepared within and looking for it.
The Sikhs love and choose their Guru’s first out of present day associating with sangat but as the growth comes it is the truth of the Guru’s word and the direction that enhances the love of the Guru manifold.

Taranjeet singh · Mar 22, 2010

divine outpouring said:
hi everyone, i have a question which i hope you'll find interesting. before i pose it, i would like to say a couple of things.

Who do sikhs believe is the one whom God loves the most, or the one who God has favoured the most, or the one who best followed God's commands, or the one who was in closest union with God?

and

what criteria do sikhs use to determine the answer to the aforementioned question?

the same question applies if sikhs believe more than one person to be closest to God.

Dear Divine pouring ji,

Many have tried to answer you and see that you are satisfied. I shall go back to the title of the thread as to 'Who is closest to the God'. The answer can best be replied from the Guru Granth Sahib ji that we treat as our Guru. I hope and expect that you have basic understanding of sikhism.

Approach to the question

As the common-sense says one who is closest to the God would be a person who is likely to receive the Grace of the God. The Grace is bestowed on those who are pleasing to the lord. Our exploration is thus to locate those persons and their acts that make the person pleasing to the God. Taking clues from the Guru we can divide the persons into the following Broad categories.

Persons who are pleasing to the God

1,Persons who praise the naam .i.e the insignia of the Almighty.[130-7]
2. Those who chant The Naam.[122-11] Here the reference is not direct but implied.
3.Persons who are engaged in devotional worship of the Almighty.[122-5]
4.Those who are attuned to His love [122-10],Indirect reference
5.Those persons who engage in doing the acts that makes one humble.[137-2]
6.Those who remain detached from the worldly affairs and maya [139-8]
7.Those who are in the service to the Guru[165-5]

I can enlarge the list. But it is only indicative so that you have an idea of the answer.

A common-sensical rule

This is the Broad category of the persons who are pleasing to the Lord and hence are directly , as per my humble opinion, eligible for the Grant of His Grace. You would kindly observe that all the above persons/seekers are those who are complying with the instructions and as a general rule it can be stated that all the Devotees who are in devotion to the Almighty through the Guru's Teachings are the persons who are closest to the God. In sikhism there is no difference between His devotee and the Lord.

Hope it clarifies.

With Regards!

Tarnajeet

Satyaban · Mar 22, 2010

Outpouring ji

Would you please respond to my post number 19 this thread.

Peace

Seeker9 · Sep 19, 2010

divine outpouring said:
hi everyone, i have a question which i hope you'll find interesting. before i pose it, i would like to say a couple of things.

i have been on these forums before under different names. i was on here once as 'a muslim' and later as something else (can't remember the name i used then). as 'a muslim' i felt a great warmth from the spn community and a real effort to answer my queries for the sake of greater understanding. as the other name i was accused of being someone else (as i used someone elses computer, who also happened to be a member) who took an approach to questioning which the community didn't respond to as well. i was kicked off the forums even though i personally did not cause offence, and now i am back as i have more questions which i hope you will answer in the same spirit as you answered 'a muslim'. i wanted to clear that up in case the moderators thought i was an ill doer whose only purpose was to come here and cause chaos.

Dear Divine Outpouring Ji
I post comments on the basis of what I read and not what I think about the person making the post. I daresay others do the same. I would therefore not condone the "cloak and dagger" of multiple identities

i really wish we can put all of that behind us as it affected my path to understanding sikhism. True, i am a muslim, and true, i haven't seen anything in sikhism that would make me want to convert; but true, if i perceived it as the best way to God i would convert, and true, even if i didn't, i have grown up alongside sikhs and feel a strong desire to learn their religion for the sake of increasing my understanding of that which they hold most dear. understandably, my sikh friends do not have amongst them the knowledge of religion which this community affords, so i consider it beneficial for me to be here.

with that cleared, i would like to ask:

Who do sikhs believe is the one whom God loves the most, or the one who God has favoured the most, or the one who best followed God's commands, or the one who was in closest union with God?

To me the question(s) are flawed as in Sikhism there is no old patriarchal deity like you get in some other religions. Perhaps if the questions were rephrased from the point of view of Sikhs taking life-changing actions and asking what it is they have to do to get closer to God, then it would make more sense
and

what criteria do sikhs use to determine the answer to the aforementioned question?

no criteria - a detailed instruction manual exists in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which details the nature of God and what actions are expected of Sikhs if they want to get closer to God

the same question applies if sikhs believe more than one person to be closest to God.

as a side note, i think this forum is really well structured. whoever made it has done it well!

I agree wholeheartedly!

apologies if my questions could have been in a more appropriate section

looking forward to reading your replies!
thanks :happy:

I hope you will be able to see where I am coming from here

findingmyway · Sep 21, 2010

divine outpouring said:
jinee purakhee sathagur n saeviou sae dhukheeeae jug chaar ||
Those who do not serve the True Guru shall be miserable throughout the four ages.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib 34

I was watching Sikh TV (UK) the other day, there was some sort of conference in Leeds and I remember one of the speakers saying “if you live your life by Gurmat principles you will be truly successful (or words to that effect).” It struck me, the Muslims say the same thing about Islamic principles and the Christians about their principles, yet externally we are all so different. It’s easy enough to say that we all worship the same God, but some differences are irreconcilable. For example, an afterlife of heaven/hell and reincarnation cannot both be true. Yet if your Gurus were God conscious, receiving their teachings from an infallible divine source, and everyone else believes the same about their religious figures then we have a problem, as not everyone can be right.

I fear you misunderstand the quote. When a Sikh is miserable, it is not because he/she is suffering from the wrath of God but because he/she is stuck in worldly desires impeding spiritual development. It is because he/she has not subdued the 5 devils inside of themself and therefore are still ruled by them. It has nothing to do with God but with the way we exercise our fee will!

Secondly define successful. Are you looking at it in spiritual terms or worldly terms?

polpol · Sep 22, 2010

I must say, I am in total admiration for all the people who replied to D.O. with respect and patience. You are great embassadors of sikhism and I would say you are indeed very very close to God. I still have a long way to go. To me, D.O.'s question is silly and not worth any consideration. It is what we call an idle question ie. not a real question, it mostly aims to provoke, destabilise, accuse, etc. I would tend to say that I don't like him and I think he chose a pseudonyme that has a disrespectful connotation (that's why I use the abbreviation). I also think that this poor fellow has personal issues about his faith and that he feels he has drifted far, far away from God. Very pathetic.
D.O., please be truthful about your real concerns. People here have shown honesty and they can help you if only you let them. I tried to stay out of this since I am not a Sikh but I just couldn't. I am sorry for interfering, I won't do it again.

spnadmin · Sep 22, 2010

Narayanjot Kaur said:
divine outpouring ji

Once a multiple identity is discovered, the integrity of a member suffers. Who are you really, one asks? If you are untruthful in one guise, can you be truthful in the other? Which identity is the one to believe? Or, can any be believed? Couple an uncertainty about truthfulness with a tendency of one of two identities/members to taunt other members and question their intelligence and religious sincerity. The combination is toxic, and no forum can permit it to go on indefinitely. That is the reflection in the mirror that I hold up to you.

Now like you I hope to put this behind us and to discuss a profound question in a way that allow us to learn from one another.

Polpol ji

The second post in this thread is one which questions the integrity of DO and his motivations. Yes, forum members are very patient.

whatcomesafterfour · Oct 19, 2010

a new born child

Who Is Closest To God?

Satyaban

Tejwant Singh

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)

ballym

gur_meet

Taranjeet singh

Satyaban

Seeker9

Cleverness is not wisdom

findingmyway

polpol

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)

whatcomesafterfour

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