What Is Wrong With Halal Now?
- Thread starter Scarlet Pimpernel
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Kds Ji
There maybe physical side effects related to the other kurehits so they are a little different and not really a defiant gesture and more to do with healthy living.No disrespect meant to the Rehat, but I question manmade conventions, due to men like us being fallible .
There maybe physical side effects related to the other kurehits so they are a little different and not really a defiant gesture and more to do with healthy living.No disrespect meant to the Rehat, but I question manmade conventions, due to men like us being fallible .
Sat Sri Akal my friends,
I was under the understanding that Sikhi does not consume halal meat because of the way it is slaughtered. That the throat of the animal is slit and the animal is still alive and drained of its blood, which to me seems a tad inhumane...(personally)
Isn't the meaning of jhatka meat, that the meat is slaughtered in one direct blow, so that the animal is not alive and it does not suffer.
Is this correct?
Sat Sri Akal
I was under the understanding that Sikhi does not consume halal meat because of the way it is slaughtered. That the throat of the animal is slit and the animal is still alive and drained of its blood, which to me seems a tad inhumane...(personally)
Isn't the meaning of jhatka meat, that the meat is slaughtered in one direct blow, so that the animal is not alive and it does not suffer.
Is this correct?
Sat Sri Akal
How they are different.the beleif that uncut hair are not important is becoming more and more popular .I don't see any physical side for keeping uncut hair
- May 9, 2006
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Sinner Ji, thanks for continuing the discussion.
I'll put myself out there with this one.
1. The reasons for non-consumption of halal for me outweight the reasons to consume it. Even if I wasn't a Sikh, I would still be wary of eating something processed according to another religion's rites.
2. Keeping the prohibition against halal reinforces community identity. It feels good to do what the rest of your group is doing, and support the reasons for doing so. As long as you don't follow blindly.
3. It is a constant reminder to be vigilant against oppression.
4. If you take Sikhi and SGGS on the philosophical level only, no one would become Khalsa, you couldn't tell the difference between a Sikh and a non-Sikh, and Sikhi dies as a vibrant living religion. The ceremonies and traditions Sikhs have now largely come from the community itself and from history. If you take all the Sikhs off the planet today, wipe out the history, give SGGS to some curious onlooker, they won't be wearing turbans, they will eat anything they want, they'll cut their hair, but they'll still get up for amrit vela!
I'll put myself out there with this one.
1. The reasons for non-consumption of halal for me outweight the reasons to consume it. Even if I wasn't a Sikh, I would still be wary of eating something processed according to another religion's rites.
2. Keeping the prohibition against halal reinforces community identity. It feels good to do what the rest of your group is doing, and support the reasons for doing so. As long as you don't follow blindly.
3. It is a constant reminder to be vigilant against oppression.
4. If you take Sikhi and SGGS on the philosophical level only, no one would become Khalsa, you couldn't tell the difference between a Sikh and a non-Sikh, and Sikhi dies as a vibrant living religion. The ceremonies and traditions Sikhs have now largely come from the community itself and from history. If you take all the Sikhs off the planet today, wipe out the history, give SGGS to some curious onlooker, they won't be wearing turbans, they will eat anything they want, they'll cut their hair, but they'll still get up for amrit vela!
Isna bhen Ji
I have some muslim friends and it always puzzled me if it's ok for those kind souls why is it not ok for me.I look at everything for universal maxims.Like thou shall not Steal. Anything that divides us I tend to overlook .They are adopting something in the name of religion and we are rejecting it in the name of religion. Hopefully Kfc is not kurehit but if the devil was to offer me a 10 pce bucket, I might not ask if it is Jhatka ,the question I would ask is how many legs!
I have some muslim friends and it always puzzled me if it's ok for those kind souls why is it not ok for me.I look at everything for universal maxims.Like thou shall not Steal. Anything that divides us I tend to overlook .They are adopting something in the name of religion and we are rejecting it in the name of religion. Hopefully Kfc is not kurehit but if the devil was to offer me a 10 pce bucket, I might not ask if it is Jhatka ,the question I would ask is how many legs!
- May 9, 2006
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If non halal is ok for us, why isn't it ok for them? The argument goes both ways and given the evidence I see, I would personally choose the method of least cruelty. But that takes us away from the problem of halal for Sikhs today and into the realm of personal human choice.
When it comes to division, insisting all animals be slaughtered the Islamic way regardless of the society seems not divisive but conquoring. Allowing all to chose their own method of slaughter is better. And for Sikhs, we choose not to kill our animals in the name of god, or in a method which has been commanded by god or else we sin against god. We just kill it!
If we all gave up, we'd all be eating halal, no choice.
When it comes to division, insisting all animals be slaughtered the Islamic way regardless of the society seems not divisive but conquoring. Allowing all to chose their own method of slaughter is better. And for Sikhs, we choose not to kill our animals in the name of god, or in a method which has been commanded by god or else we sin against god. We just kill it!
If we all gave up, we'd all be eating halal, no choice.
Aurengzeb gave all these "arguments" in order to convince Guru Teg bahadur Ji to CONVERT. He said..How Nice IF ALL united and there was only 1 religion for all Indians...Guru Ji told him..now there are 2 - Islam and Hinduism..after I am dead..there will be 3 !!! (Sikhism !!)
SIKHISM has always stood for FREEDOM of CHOICE..and Guru Arjun Ji and Guru Teg baahdur Ji gave their LIVES for this FREEDOM to worship the way we like.
This is Valid for all time and in all countries....Sikh bows to NO ONE !! except Akal Purakh.
SIKHISM has always stood for FREEDOM of CHOICE..and Guru Arjun Ji and Guru Teg baahdur Ji gave their LIVES for this FREEDOM to worship the way we like.
This is Valid for all time and in all countries....Sikh bows to NO ONE !! except Akal Purakh.
Gyani Ji
A Sikh should bow to all mankind but bend for none then he is a real Sikh.
There was merit in the Guru's rejection under threat of death, they defied their rulers ,what punishment are the Sikhs today facing by rejecting it?In 500 years moss has grown on our religion, slowly,slowly, like it grows on my roof .Either Halal and Jhatka are both wrong or both right , as logically what is right for one soul must be right for another.
A Sikh should bow to all mankind but bend for none then he is a real Sikh.
There was merit in the Guru's rejection under threat of death, they defied their rulers ,what punishment are the Sikhs today facing by rejecting it?In 500 years moss has grown on our religion, slowly,slowly, like it grows on my roof .Either Halal and Jhatka are both wrong or both right , as logically what is right for one soul must be right for another.
I disagree. The rejection was not just of the ruling classes but a rejection of a way of thinking-that food has anything to do with God and this is still valid. It was a rejection of the symbolism in the Halal process and this is still valid. It is also a rejection of the inequality inherent in the process of producing halal as only certain people are allowed to partake in the slaughter ritual-this is still valid.
Dear Way Ji ,You have a good point there, but does that not mean our religion by approving it has inadvertently put an element of symbolised approval into jhatka?
- May 9, 2006
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As has been previously said, the SRM doesn't specify jhatka for a Sikh. A Sikh can technically eat anything they want as long as it's not halal. The discerning Sikh will read and absorb Gurbani and learn that moderation is good, and that some foods are more appropriate than others (stick to simple diet, don't eat too much sugar, etc). I don't know about you but I've got a long way to go with all that yet!!!
On the other hand, I was talking to a colleague some time ago about obsessive compulsive disorders and the ritualistic behaviours that go along with it. My colleague explained to me that it's more difficult to eradicate a behaviour - it's easier to replace one behaviour with another. Now I'm not saying Sikhs, Hindus or Muslims have OCD (not saying anything about wudu, hehehe, just kidding), but when you come from a history of there being ritual and rules around food, it may have been difficult for some people to just abandon a food-related behaviour, so jhatka was encouraged as an alternative, perhaps? I don't know, just thinking out loud.
On the other hand, I was talking to a colleague some time ago about obsessive compulsive disorders and the ritualistic behaviours that go along with it. My colleague explained to me that it's more difficult to eradicate a behaviour - it's easier to replace one behaviour with another. Now I'm not saying Sikhs, Hindus or Muslims have OCD (not saying anything about wudu, hehehe, just kidding), but when you come from a history of there being ritual and rules around food, it may have been difficult for some people to just abandon a food-related behaviour, so jhatka was encouraged as an alternative, perhaps? I don't know, just thinking out loud.
How? Jhatka is not mandated nor limited in definition.
Jhatka has nothing to do with God.
Dear Way ji and Isna Ji
Thnakyou for atleast being interested in my mad questions and sorry for the delay in responding, I was fixing my roof.I find it helps to do some practical stuff during holidays and philosophy inbetween.I must admit it's nice to engage with my fellow Sikhs, even if I lose most of the time, as we have not discoursed Way Ji let me try to dig myself out of my self made hole.What I meant to say that we have made it a prescribed or approved thing and so as there is there no instruction in gurmat it must be ritual ,tradition or convention to eat jhatka.
Thnakyou for atleast being interested in my mad questions and sorry for the delay in responding, I was fixing my roof.I find it helps to do some practical stuff during holidays and philosophy inbetween.I must admit it's nice to engage with my fellow Sikhs, even if I lose most of the time, as we have not discoursed Way Ji let me try to dig myself out of my self made hole.What I meant to say that we have made it a prescribed or approved thing and so as there is there no instruction in gurmat it must be ritual ,tradition or convention to eat jhatka.
I do think the thread has run its course. Two points repeated over at least 2 pages:
1. Jatkha is not mandated for Sikhs.
2. Animal cruelty is not relevant to this discussion.
3. Religions differ in the importance they place on the consumption of meat, and its method of slaughter.... because they are different religions.
If we cannot add to the current content, the thread needs to be closed. Please read beyond the last 2 or so comments to review what has already been stated. Thank you
1. Jatkha is not mandated for Sikhs.
2. Animal cruelty is not relevant to this discussion.
3. Religions differ in the importance they place on the consumption of meat, and its method of slaughter.... because they are different religions.
If we cannot add to the current content, the thread needs to be closed. Please read beyond the last 2 or so comments to review what has already been stated. Thank you
ANYONE can do "Jhatka"...muslim..christian..hindu..sinner or saint !! its STILL JHATKA....but NOT for Hallal...i CANT do "hallal" although i can shout Allah hu Akbar just as loud as my muslim neighbour...???? ONLY a Certified MUSLIM can make a dead cow Hallal !!
This is a very important POINT sinner ji....BUT....on the human scale...its the opposite..he he...while everyone can be a "sinner"only some can be SAINTS !! Ha ha
This is a very important POINT sinner ji....BUT....on the human scale...its the opposite..he he...while everyone can be a "sinner"only some can be SAINTS !! Ha ha
Spnadmin I think you are right and thanks for your understanding and clarification.I now intend to be vegetarian on Mondays and Tuesdays and will eat Jhatka on Wednesdays and Thursdays I will fast Friday to Sunday. But does anyone think I might be spending too much time on dietary habit and have forgotten religion is the enterprise of the soul.
Very good point a very large number of Jhatka butchers are lower caste Hindu's.
If you leave Religion out of slaughter method then almost every kind of meat is jhatka
- Any Moslem having reached puberty is allowed to slaughter after saying the name of Allah and facing Makkah (Mecca).
- The animal should not be thirsty at slaughter time.
- The knife must be sharp, to minimize the time and hence save the animal pain associated with the slaughtering process.
- The knife must not be sharpened in front of the animal because it may cause undue stress to that animal
- The slaughter is to be done by cutting the throat of the animal or by piercing the hollow of the throat, causing the quickest death with the least amount of pain.
- The name of Allah has to be mentioned before or during slaughtering, since the Creator is the granter and taker of life; the name must be said by a member of the Moslem faith.
- Meat slaughtered by people of the Jewish or Christian faith (People of the Book) may also be eaten.
- The blood must be completely drawn from the carcass.
Quran: Surah 6:121.
Eat not of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath not been pronounced:
That would be impiety
But the evil ones
Ever inspire their friends
To contend with you
If ye were to obey the
Ye would indeed be Pagans
Saud Twaigery and Diana Spillman, An Introduction to Moslem Dietary Laws, Food Technology, February, 1989
After all is said and done, if halal meat is not available to muslims, then they may eat non halal meat.
Quran: Surah 6:121.
Eat not of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath not been pronounced:
If were a muslim I would interpret that stanza as reminding me to say grace or be grateful for what I eat even couldn't they just pronounce Allah before eating a meal.
Eat not of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath not been pronounced:
If were a muslim I would interpret that stanza as reminding me to say grace or be grateful for what I eat even couldn't they just pronounce Allah before eating a meal.
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