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What Is Really In The Contents Of The Dasam Granth?

spnadmin

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okay, but who can loudly claim with full faith that "Guru Gobing Singh did not write dasam granth"... and if someone can.... then ask we should ask... are you now at the level of Guru Gobind Singh, or even high to dictate what they wrote and didn't.

How could he write it if he was dead before it ever appeared on the scene?

Dasam Pita died in 1708. Sri Dasam Granth Sahib is published in 1901/1903 based on a disputed collection of pothis.

If you are talking about individual hymns, such as Jaap Sahib, then you have an excellent question. In 2007 SGPC appointed a commission to investigate just such questions using modern authentication methods. So far nothing has come of it.
 
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Chaan Pardesi

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Justosh JI, That is an assumped mistake and illusion-that Guru Gobind singh Ji "wrote"the "dasam" kitab!

I have repeatedly claimed very loudly that it was not written by the Guru sahib many times; and so have writers greater than us minions!

Guru sahib left their worldy abode in 1708.That book did not appaear in the form of dasam granth until about the mid 1850s titled as dasam patshah da Granth!

The first rumblings allegedly containing the writings of book called bachiter natak appeared about 8 years after the shahidi of Bhai Mani singh in about 1746, in the form of a binded book, called bachitter natak!

Who binded this into a book, no one knows.

What is known is that Bhai Mani singh was collecting litrature written by and related to Guru Gobind Singh ji-these days erroneously refered to as "bani".

Eight years after Bhai mani singh was martyred this book made an appearance.Pls read my article and some others.THESE FACTS have not been denied nor countered.

I personally believe, that someone advertently with an objective or perhaps inadvertently collected all the material that was perhaps lying in Bhai Mani Singh room/posession and binded it togother, little realsing the subsequent consequences of the their own actions!It is also possible anti sikh forces especially the brahmanwaadi Nirmala and udasi sadhs did this on purpose to keep link with their brahmanwad origins!

A point to understand and consider is that not many people were educated in thoise days to understand what really this book contained!I also believe the word granth has been wrongly used here.Any large book is grnath to sikhs, when it should have been reserved specially foir the Guru Granth sahib.That is a language issue.

The book then went through various stages of names, bachitter natak, samund sagar, Vidya sagar, Dasmesh pita da "granth" to Dasam "Granth" to currently being refered to as sriguru dasam "granth".[Bachittar Natak Daswen Patshah ka Granth Dasam Granth Sri Dasam Granth Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib]

The contents too were changed as they went along.There were no two copies that were similar.However, around 1920s the Panthic learned sat up a committee and made some changes and divided it into its current form.

Simple question is, having gone through so many changes in a short time, what gurantee is that the original writings are still the same?

To answer the questions over the jaap sahib & akal Ustat ...let me share with all of you an instance, which I have refered to in the past.In abt 2007/08, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti was in the presence of a few panthic scholars in Gravesend.I am a minion compared to them.One of them raised this issue about jaap sahib and it's position during khande bate da pahul sanskaar...all vedanti ji could say was"...bas Ji bas, karo, gal nu ethe hi band kardo!Nahi te sare panth da pishla 300 sala ithass ethe hi khatam ho javega"!


Please work out, why was such said?I have sat and wondered since then many times...what could be the reasons and consequences?In my mind it goes through, but I dont have any other evidence to back up.

The solution for sikhs is very simple if we sincerely wish to try and end this revolving controversy.The standards have been sat already by the Guru Granth sahib.If, the contents of anything does not meet against the standards of Guru Granth sahib, then that cannot be worth as authentic sikh literature.Anything outside the Guru Granth sahib is certainly NOT the bani.If Guru Gobind singh did NOT see appropriate to add his authentic writings in the Guru Granth sahib, then who are we to do so against his instructions;or even refer to it as bani?Then it remains simply as writings!

If we can arise out of the depth of kachi bani formula,that seems to be ingrained into our minds.. many things would become simpler and clearer to define and understand;esspecially if we all study Guru Granth sahib carefully; instead of listening as 3rd hand or 4th hand information about the so called dasam kitab...from derawadi babas!
 
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spnadmin

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justosh ji

Rather than posting a link and leaving it at that, please do write a summary of your ideas.

My quick response... there is no Second Canon of the Sikhs... though the link is so titled.

If you believe that then you are also claiming that Guru Gobind Singh did not declare the Aad Granth the last and only Guru of the Sikhs.

By using the word "canon" in the title, the article is also defying the definition of the word "canon" itself. A canon is a body of laws and regulations put together by a religious body with the authority to do that. What laws are constituted in Dasam Granth? The vast majority of it are tales of Hindu deities awash in blood, clanking weapons and stories of the wiles of women.

If there are 2 canons, containing laws and regulations, which is Canon Number 1? Or is someone trying to imply that Guru Granth Sahib shares authority as Guru with another Guru.

Something else you really need to be aware of. As the book unfolds, the lie told by Chibber of the dates given by Bhai Mani Singh stare right at you under Item 5. Chibber later recanted. But too late!

The website was constructed as a ploy to distract anyone who might be drawn to the writings of serious researchers. You really have to know the historical scholarship not to be duped. During the Cold War this type of thing was called disinformation.
 
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spnadmin

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It would be a school-boy/s and girl's exercise to take that article apart point by point.
 
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justosh

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"If you believe that then you are also claiming that Guru Gobind Singh did not declare the Aad Granth the last and only Guru of the Sikhs."

Never, nor has there been, even in the dasam granth something along the lines of what you have stated, in any of the posts of the people defending dasam granth have never said "we don't believe in Guru Granth as Guru"...... that just a pointless statement and argument.

why do people believe if someone says they believe in the dasam granth, they automatically assume that that person does not believe in Guru Granth..... have we ever said dasam granth is Guru........ people may call it Guru, but we ALL know its not.

further more after anmirt, we are khalsa..... but if you call the dasam granth wrong/false then the word khalsa is not applying to us...... guru granth & khalsa panth?

Bhagat kabir talks about being khalsa (sorry cant remeber what Ang, but it is in Guru Granth, as it was a personal huknamana), but his followers are not khalsa.... they are just followers of bhagat kabir.
 
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Harry Haller

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Justoshji

some thoughts

okay, but who can loudly claim with full faith that "Guru Gobing Singh did not write dasam granth"... and if someone can.... then ask we should ask... are you now at the level of Guru Gobind Singh, or even high to dictate what they wrote and didn't
This a ridiculous argument, using this logic, who can loudly claim that Guru Gobind Singhji did not write the US constitution? or Hamlet, or anything written. As a Sikh you have to use your brain, and it is clear that from some of the writings, they contradict the very foundations of bani.

I have looked, why is the porn not mentioned? The porn is the biggest hurdle most people have in accepting DG was written by the tenth master, it is the most important facet in my being unable to just open up a DG and read randomly to my family, so how can I accept this as a full Q and A? if anything it seems more like the stuff the Soviets used to churn out....

Never, nor has there been, even in the dasam granth something along the lines of what you have stated, in any of the posts of the people defending dasam granth have never said "we don't believe in Guru Granth as Guru"...... that just a pointless statement and argument.
If you are going to have a debate, at least make it interesting by trying to put up a decent argument, this is like shooting fish in a barrel, Adminji pointed out that

If you believe that then you are also claiming that Guru Gobind Singh did not declare the Aad Granth the last and only Guru of the Sikhs.
Now do you see the word 'only'? I have highlighted it for you, it means single, one, not two, not another. The argument is not whether you accept the SGGS, it is do you accept the SGGS as the one and only Granth without any others, and clearly you do not.

why do people believe if someone says they believe in the dasam granth, they automatically assume that that person does not believe in Guru Granth..... have we ever said dasam granth is Guru........ people may call it Guru, but we ALL know its not.
You know its not, yet you post an article entitled 'Sri Dasam Granth Sahib
The Second Canon of the Sikhs', that seems contradictory to me.

further more after anmirt, we are khalsa..... but if you call the dasam granth wrong/false then the word khalsa is not applying to us...... guru granth & khalsa panth?
This does not even make sense......

Bhagat kabir talks about being khalsa (sorry cant remeber what Ang, but it is in Guru Granth, as it was a personal huknamana), but his followers are not khalsa.... they are just followers of bhagat kabir.
Khalsa is someone who accepts the SGGS as one and only Granth, who are you a follower of?
 

justosh

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ok to be honest and quite frank im gonna stop, your not reading it properly, THERE IS NO CLAIM THAT DG IS GURU....

that's like saying "oh that person believes that book, it their guru......"

there is an assumption that people can not get out of their head..... i had anmrit with japji sahib, jaap sahib, Tav Prasad Swaye, Benti chaupai and Annand Sahib.... in-front Of Guru Granth.....

I am not saying that DG is Guru..... like come on,

if a Sikh believes a science book are you going to say "that's their guru not Guru Granth sahib"

and on that note, im going to take my leave from this discussion, as there is a fundamental flaw here, (dont know about the rest of the participants) but i haven't ask Guru Granth sahib on this topic.
 

Kamala

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If you are not going to believe in the Sri Dasam Granth Maharaj ji, then you should totally not believe in it, it is unfair how you take bits and pieces out of it and believe in it but not the whole thing.

Why would you even bother doing Jaap Sahib since it is from Sri Dasam Granth Maharaj ji ;)

Anyways, I find it quite silly how people can just reject Sri Dasam Granth Maharaj ji as if it is nothing. All you are doing is acting very strange.
 
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Harry Haller

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ok to be honest and quite frank im gonna stop, your not reading it properly, THERE IS NO CLAIM THAT DG IS GURU....
its always a good idea to read in full what you are linking to, Sridasamgranth.com quotes the following

It seems very peculiar that since the late 1700’s the Sri Dasam Granth has been seen as the equal of the Guru Granth Sahib but now overnight the Granth is the work of Brahmins and not of the Guru. .Endless accounts can be found from 1700 onwards that the Sri Dasam Granth is the work of Guru Gobind Singh.
And this is what precisely the tenth master wished to avoid, there is no equal, yet this website finds it peculiar that the DG is not seen as such
 
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spnadmin

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its always a good idea to read in full what you are linking to, Sridasamgranth.com quotes the following

And this is what precisely the tenth master wished to avoid, there is no equal, yet this website finds it peculiar that the DG is not seen as such
Harry Haller ji

It seems that there is something about this topic that, once salted over the table clings, and will not be dusted away. Your concerns are quite right. The passage about the 1700's is another example of pure hog-wash, unsupported by historical analysis.

This is pure fiction
It seems very peculiar that since the late 1700’s the Sri Dasam Granth has been seen as the equal of the Guru Granth Sahib but now overnight the Granth is the work of Brahmins and not of the Guru. .Endless accounts can be found from 1700 onwards that the Sri Dasam Granth is the work of Guru Gobind Singh.

Lets check a thread here recently uploaded, "18th Century Perspective on Sikhism." Consistently the chroniclers of the 1700's noted that Sikhs jealously guarded pothis of Guru Granth Sahib, would not relinquish the notion that it was the primal and only guru. Guru Nanak's philosophy was central to Sikh belief.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/40067-18th-century-perspective-on-sikhism.html

The Dasam Granthh argument will never be won on this thread. The important thing is to keep posting so that the individuals who wander through, read, and think, and who never post will be reassured of the facts not the fantasies.

This is in the 18th Century, and no mention of the Dasam Granth in the entire article

Obviously, in the eyes of these Europeans the Sikh mode of worship comprised singing and reading of hymns from the Guru Granth Sahib. The object of worship and veneration was nothing else but the sole scripture, i.e. Guru Granth Sahib.
 
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Chaan Pardesi

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I think Justush misunderstands the tuk about kabir saying/using the term khalsa.It is not refering to the fraternity of khalsa as claimed by justush ji.I suggest you read that again and come back.I shall not expand on that just yet.He is not even asking anyone to become khalsa.It is a tuk about purity.

I do not see any one claiming " that Guru Gobind Singh did not declare the Aad Granth the last and only Guru of the Sikhs." However you have assumed, alleged and suggested that yourself!

I think you are reigning around confusion here...you seem to assume that somehow the khalsa is connected to dasam granth and not Guru Granth sahib, and without the dasam kitab, there is no khalsa.

The dasam kitab has no connection with khalsa,nor it existed ever then nor it contains anything remotely related to the khalsa, unless the khalsa believes in idol worship and seeks its powers from the hindu gods!

I think you walking the claims and logic of the babadom that alleges that Guru Granth sahib is sant /pir ras and Dasam granth is bir ras...a very clever ploy that has been used to mislead the sikhs, and has worked to a large extent in the past.

Guru Granth sahib is anterjami, thus it contains bir ras and pir ras and all that the world needs to live and work for.It does not need an assistant, which is what the proponents of the falsehood try to portray the false dasam kitab as!



Sometimes, I sit and ponder and wonder, why the sikhs have been such highly uneducated lot in the past that they allowed a few people to manipulate their entire history and somehow link them to Krishan, Bhagauti etc and made them slaves of the very idol worship we were lifted out off.
 
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Chaan Pardesi

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"It seems very peculiar that since the late 1700’s the Sri Dasam Granth has been seen as the equal of the Guru Granth Sahib but now overnight the Granth is the work of Brahmins and not of the Guru. .Endless accounts can be found from 1700 onwards that the Sri Dasam Granth is the work of Guru Gobind Singh"

Fundamentally incorrect.Pls provide one reference where it is mentioned that since 1700s it has been an equal of Guru Granth sahib?

The book came to be known to be binded first in 1748.The next mention is around 1874 in bansawali and then chibber mentions the bachitter natak in 1776.

Pls provide references of the endless accounts from 1700s.I am always willing to read such accounts and look forward.

This issue is not the work of an "overnight", it has been in discussion since 1748.If YOU believe it is the result of an "over night", then you are obviously on the wrong track and trying to push that wrong down to the sangat.

It is as clear as day light, that such remarks expose the bankruptcy of facts.
 
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Chaan Pardesi

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Kamala Ji says "If you are not going to believe in the Sri Dasam Granth Maharaj ji"

We know when Guru Granth sahib was given the gurgaddi.

Can you please tell us when was this "maharaj"title bestowed upon the alleged Dasam kitab??Please provide dates and proper references.

Unfortunately,95% of it is something that does not agree with Gurbani.To be fair one HAS to take the relevant parts out and discuss.

No one in the Sikh world disagrees that it does contain [5%]what can be accepted as the Guru's writings.



Dont be fooled to think that this issue came out "over night"...it has been around since the book was first binded in 1748....

Over the years more information and understanding has developed that was not present then and since , up to now.


Sikhs have been following blindly what they were fed...by Kaashi educated babadom...until now...Name one Sikh school at kaashi, where they studied Sikh?All these babas in the past claimed theeir education reached the peak if they had been to kaashi...what did they study at the centre of hindusim?Name me one sikh school that existed at Kaashi.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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EVERYONE KEEPS denying THAT THE dg IS "not guru".....
but ON each Volume of it...there are the words SRI DASAM ( TINY FONT)..and GURU GRANTH SAHIB (large size font). The TINY FONT is SUBTERFUGE to silence the opposition claims that this KITAB is being called GURU...


See Attachment...the WORDS CLEARLY SAY" sri DASMESH GURU GRANTH SAHIB"..and Ironically this is a Report of the Sub committee set up to Standardise and CORRECT the anomalies existing between the 32 various editions of DG available then...

This is apart from the VARIOUS CHANGING NAMES of this KITAB..while the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has alwyas been AAD GRANTH and form 1708 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Its Name has NEVER CHANGED and neither has any comittee been set up to "CORRECT" its Bani !! How can a mere SIKH correct the GURU's BANI ??
 
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