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What Is Really In The Contents Of The Dasam Granth?

Discussion in 'Dasam Granth' started by Chaan Pardesi, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Chaan Pardesi

    Chaan Pardesi United Kingdom
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    Part One

    WHY THE false book ''DASAM GRANTH'' is being preached among Sikhs?

    (ਡਾਕਟਰ ਹਰਜਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਿਲਗੀਰ-translated by Gurcharan Singh Kulim,Kuala Lumpur

    The foremost question that arises, what is in the false dasam
    granth?The main contents in it is as follows:-

    1.Three chapters/paragraphs in praise of chandi,durga and bhagwati from page 74 to 127, a total of 54 pages,[ singing the praises of mythological hindu gods & goddess]

    2.More praises & compliments to the hindu gods in the contents of
    Chauvbis avtaar,Brahma Avtaar;Rudar Avtaar [pages 555 to pages 709, a
    total of 555 pages.There is then praises of Yann, another hindu god, in
    54 pages.These makes a total of 609 pages where the praises of the
    imaginary and fictional hindu gods & goddess are sung .Stories of
    their power, and grandoise might and abilities are told.

    3.There is also the shaster mala[weapons chronology] from page 717 -808, a total of 92 pages, in which the weapons of the ancient past are praised and thought of mightily.

    4.Charitropakhyaan -from pages 809 to 1388, a total of 580 pages plus
    Hakaitaan from page 1394 to 1428 , a total of 35 pages,together
    totalling 615 pages is all about sex, lust,prostitution, sex positions, porn, raunchy sex manipulation and sexually depraved activities & enticement by women using lust and sex over men.The correct word to be used here for all these is kan--- khana [porn]stories, I have to say very very relecutantly, but truth has to be told.

    5.Bachitter Natak -from pages 39 to 73 , a total of 35 pages talks
    about ficitional stories, gossip, imaginary heresay in the first part.In the second part it refers to some incidents alledgely took place between 1685 & 1696.

    6.Contains footnotes over 4 pages from pages 709 to pages 712.Then there is the Zafernama of Guru Gobind Singh over 6 pages from 1389 -1394.

    7.Finally there are the Jaap,Swayiye and Akal ustat spread over from
    pages 1-38'

    In conclusion, this false book contains 609 pages of the praises of hindu mythological gods and goddesses;the bachiter natak entries contains gossips and heresay over 20 pages , and 92 pages sing the praises of the old weapons.Thus all added together means about 95% of the cintents do not abide or co-relate to the Gurus messages Gurbani, spirtuality of sikhism or any part of Sikh philosophy even distantly.

    These pages do not contain anything about God, the One entity,neither of the Sikh Gurus,nor it emphasises upon naam jaap,nor spirituallity, nor of life or sewa to mankind and the highest standards of life as khalsa.

    It is thus very shameful and unacceptable that some people without any knowledge, compare this book to the Guru Granth sahib.Some sat out this falsebook on the palki parralell to Guru Granth sahib.It is amazing such fools have the audacity to preach the falsehood of this book, how are they to answer to the Guru ji?This is the most heinious and sinful act against Sikhi and Gurbani and Sikh panth,yet they continue to mislead the sikhs with such falsehood.

    It is no wonder, when some writers talk and discuss about this book , many people get worked up, and come with abuse instead of intelligent debate

    The question arises, how did the preaching of this false book began and why it speeded up from 2006 onwards?There are a number of reasons, why, and this will become clear in the following paragraphs.


    In 2004 Sikhs celebrated the 400 hundered years of Guru Granth sahib
    ji.In 2008 , the 300th annivesary of the Gurgaddi of Guru Ganth sahib,
    was celebrated.These celebrations exposed the magnificance of the
    Shabad Guru to the rest of the world, and people began to realise and
    awake to the greatness of One shabad Guru.No other religion has, nor
    shares this unique concept of the Shabad Guru or beat it with a
    greater simple formula of God and mankind, as explained in the Shabad
    Guru Concept.Seeing the rising popularity of the Guru Granth sahib and
    shabad Guru , the anti Sikh forces began to make plans to belittle and
    destablise the Guru Granrh sahib among sikhs and influence Sikhs with
    hindusim.Plan were put into place to destable the Sikhs.

    The first step taken in this direction was during the 300 hundered
    years anniversary of the khalsa in 1999, when the sadh, sant and
    babadom was given encouragement to flood into the Sikh psyche, with
    their little uneducated theories and mystical "powers".They pushed
    forward to do their "parchar ".Anti Sikh media promoted the sadhs ,
    sants and babadom, and ensued they got the central place in any
    media.It is noted that never before such wide parchar was ever done by
    any baba, sant or sadh as in this short period.Their target was
    simple.Create a state of uncertainty and suspicion among Sikhs over the
    Guru Granth Sahib and their Gurus.Sikhi demands simplicity in all
    activities and even prayers.

    But these brahmawadi babas came with rituals and karamkand that made
    people feel they were doing "something" to get what they wanted.They
    felt part of the act and doing an activity!Gurbani simply teaches
    recite the Naam.But babas brought activities like lighting a light,
    throwing and hanging dried chillies, chanting and carrying mantras of
    magical words, even used Gurbani etc, this activities required people
    to particpate and feel they have an ownership in doing something;some
    were given pieces of yellow cloth to tie around their waists,or
    wrists, people saw these things and got themsleves into the traps laid
    down and became enslaven to such activities.

    Baba says do ten paaths, over dead bodies, the body will go
    heavens!Others thought if they created the biggest granth sahib, they
    will get express ticket to heavens.Many think if they drink from the
    left over of the babas they will also get peace and blessed.Many more
    feel touching baba ji's feets will bring riches ..the list is
    endless...simple sikh teachings of uplifting oneself, through naam ,
    jaap and sewa and sharing with poor seemed no longer attractive as this
    did not present the mystery people sought!Other babas found ways to
    make bigger Gurduaras and con people into parting with monies..etc.

    In short with such false parchar and activities, the babadom managed
    to break the sikhs away from Guru Granth sahib and join the babadom,
    who will always say the "maha purakh" said this or that, they will never
    say the Guru Ji says this and that!

    The babadom also saw a threat in the new educated Missionary
    college parcharaks who did not rely upon age old mythological stories,
    but the Gurbani aided rationality.These missionary educated
    parcharaks had studied Gurbani under new light of understanding and
    with deeper analysis , saw the falsehood and brahmanwad of the babas,
    therefore the babas felt threatened that they would be opposed .So they
    started targetting these new sikh class of preachers, We saw these
    babas going against Kala afghana , Inder Singh Ghaga, then Darshan
    singh and more recently Srabjit Singh dhunda.

    These brahmanwad babas, many through some notable groups like the false
    damdami taksaal,managed to break the Sikhs, away from Gurbani,and also
    create a state of confusion by their own versions of practice.They
    manage to confuse the Sikhs between themselves the Gurduaras and
    attract more wealth than the Gurduaras.

    Today the Punjab has more than 25 such deras whose profit is more than the Darbar sahib.There are
    more than 500 deras who profits are more than the istorical Gurduaras of the Punjab.

    It is said there are 16200 Gurduaras in the Punjab, but the number of
    registered deras is over 19500, not including the unregistred
    deras.They have confused the sikhs so much that sikhs are often seen
    giving more to the deras than the Gurduaras.The deras are far more
    richer than the Gurduaras, and more land thean the Gurduaras!sad ,it is
    really!

    These deras do not include the Noor mahiliyas, rada krishana,sirsa sadh
    etc.So what is sikhi and what has remained of sikhi today?They have
    brought a book that they now claim is Guru Gobind Singh ji's and using it
    to challanege the Guru Grranth sahib. Guru Gobind Singh said Guru
    maniyo granth.There was ONLY ONR GRANTH at that time.Guru Jidid not say Guru maniyo dasam granth!

    Nor any of his writings are bani, as all the that was bani is in the Guru Granth
    sahib!He may have some writings...they must remain simply as writings,
    and not turned into anything else that He did not asked for.The false sadhs have introduced notions of "kachi bani" ..and confused the sikhs.Bani is Bani and there is nothing kachi about it.

    The next conspiracy was the falsehood of dasam granth, where these
    babas have sat it along with Guru Granth sahib as competition. On 13
    of November 2006, in vallage Dyalpura Bhaika , a copy of this falsehood
    dasam granth was sat on par with Guru Granth sahib, and paath
    conducted.On side the path was of Guru Ji, God and mankind and its sewa
    with naam, on the other side the they were singing the praises of ram
    awtaar, rudra krishna and the porn content of Charitropakhyan, about
    lust and sex!They also created many karamkand like lighting lights,
    sprinkling waters and creating instant so called amrit in
    bottles...many with long hair and turbans were singing the paath of
    lust, sex while the paath of Guru granth sahib was going on along
    side!they were promotoing the hindu mythological gods and
    goddess......are these really sikhs babas?those who promote such babas
    should themselves ask ..are they doing really for the love of sikhi or
    to satisfy self gratification , under the guise of sikh or to satisfy
    the babas!
     
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    #1 Chaan Pardesi, Jan 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
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  3. OP
    Chaan Pardesi

    Chaan Pardesi United Kingdom
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    -continuing on the subject of the
    false dasam Kitab!

    An attempt to eradicate the demand for Khalistan .

    Another reason why this false dasam kitab was popularaised among Sikhs
    recently, was due to the fact there was a rise among Sikhs for
    Khalistan.At one time 99% Sikhs hoped for a land and country of their
    own.The demand has weakened currently and only a small percentage is seeking
    Khalistan now.

    The demand for Khalistan arose because Sikhs considered their own
    religion as an independent religion.They felt they were different from
    the hindus and shared none of the hindu idol worship.They felt that as
    a minority they were constantly at threat from assimilation into
    hindusim.

    To distant and weaken the Sikhs demanding khalistan a conspiracy
    was hatched that would eradicate the difference between Sikhs and
    hindus and make sikhs feel part of the greater hindu dharam, and eventaully
    be swallowed into hinduism.This would also weaken the sikh fight for
    khalistan state.This attempt to weaken sikhs had been going on since the
    last 50 years.However, it picked up pace in the last 15 years.
    Since 1997, through the weakened and polluted Akali Dal, RSS, Hindu
    Parishad,Bharti Janta Party , Shiv Sena, and otehr extremist hindu
    groups and parties, began to refer to sikhs as the armed wing of the
    hindu religion.This was done using any connection within the Sikhs
    religion to any distant hindu gods and teachings.

    The dasam book contained 95% hindu mythological stories was ONE GOOD
    weapon for them to use to lure Sikhs into believing they had close
    attachment with hinduism and confuse the sikhs.The Indian and hindu
    agencies encouraged the spread of babadom, and also manipulated the
    damdami taksaal into rejecting and attacking Sikhs who stood in the way
    and spoke for Sikhi.This is such a travesty considering that Baba
    Jarnail Singh of the so called taksaal had fought for the Sikhs from
    being assimilated into hinduism.But here now that very same taksaal
    under Dhuma is licking the boots of the very hindu extremists and
    government and working with them to slight the Sikh faith.

    This is the reason the old babadoms do not like the new Sikh Missonary
    trained parcharaks, Educated Sikhs and other Sikh parcharaks who want
    to lift the faith and community out of this viciously polluted babadom
    and betraying taksaalis.The taksalis have lost no time in trying to
    confuse with their own maryada despite the fact the panth ahd agreed to
    a central maryada more than fifty years ago.

    The pro Sikh parcharaks relently kept their fight that Sikhs are
    totally different from hindus and apart from some cultural similarities
    are an independent religion.These included people Like Professor
    Darshan Singh,Sarabjit Singh Dhunda,Inder Singh Ghagga etc.But the pro
    hindu and hinud practising taksaalis groups managed through false
    parchar to try and isolate.They have not bee so successful with Dhunda
    ji as they were with their earlier attempts with Drashan Singh Ji ect.

    There is a secret third agency that is working against Sikhs and sikhi
    values.and is trying very hard to divide the sikhs and cause conflict
    within sikhs, so to enbale sikhs to be assimilated into hindusim!They
    hav a plan and a simple plan.They are using the parchar of dasam kitab
    to challenge the Guruship of the Guru Granth sahib.

    They are using the imaginary stories of the hindu gods and goddesses in
    the dasam book to flame sikh sentiments, and misuse them!Many
    uneducated or little edicated Sikhs are falling for their game and
    fighting against their own Sikhi, as taught by the Gurus.

    They are falling for the parchar that Sikh Gurus revered hindu gods and
    goddesses.They claim Sikh Gurus got their power and stimulation from
    the Krishan avtars,, Bhgaauti, brahma.They show that these s tories are
    contained in the alleged book of the 10th master-the dasam
    kitab!Despite clear instructions from Guru Gobind Singh Ji that he has
    COMPLETED the Guru Granth sahib and thereafter Guru Granth sahib is the
    sole GURU of the Sikhs , these people are trying to claim that the
    "bani"of Guru Gobind Singh is in the dasam kitab and hence sikhs should
    regard it as bani and Guru!

    Khalsa Ji simple logic.If it was bani even written by Guru Gobind Singh
    , it would have been in the Guru granth sahib.Anything even if
    alledgedly written by the Guru is NOT in the Guru Granth sahib it is
    NOT bani.Simply, His writings that Hehimself did not see fit to be bani!

    WE cannot carry on a slave mentality like our forfathers who were
    little educated and the believed all these tales that babas told them!The
    babas created the notion of kachi bani!There are not two types of
    bani!Bani is Bani and only that is in the Guru Granth is bani...and not
    kachi or pakki!By indulging into the slave mentality, we have created
    the confusion of kachi bani and that so called bani in the dasam
    book!We need to move on from that thinking and not fal for the
    confusion created by these Kashi educate d babas.

    Ask yourself a question, what sort of education did these babas get
    from kasshi?Was it a sikh education?NO, it was brahman oriented
    education.There is no sikh school at kaashi.Thus all these people are
    influecned by the brahman education, and they see Krishan and bramha in
    the Gurus!This is wrong!This is misrepresenting the sikh religion.Next
    we will explore, how they are using the dasam granth to cause confusion
    and fights among sikhs and distort sikhi and bring it closer to
    hinduism!Bollywood is also playing its part here to eradicate the sikh
    identity.
     
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  4. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Just an observation, but in my experience the people proclaiming Dasam Granth loudest are the ones with machine guns on the khanda and KHALISTAN ZINDABAD in their forum signatures...

    But this article is saying the opposite should be true. ??
     
  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    It depends on perspective, and developments after 1984. And there is no one way to understand. There is of course pre-1984 which was a time of controversy within Sikhi. Strong political currents and strong personalities lined up on either side of the idea of a separate Sikh identity. After 1984 the panth became even more divided and political currents shifted, more in the direction of central government marching quick-time to deliver punishing blows to opposition movements in Punjab. What followed was a period of persecution, oppression of Sikhs by the central government, and political fratricide of Sikhs by Sikhs. What is happening today? Read Sikh Siyasat and witness the parade of splinter groups proposing an agenda for Sikhi. Perforce, the idea of Khalistan took on many forms after 1984: a place of deliverance, not unlike Israel is to the Jews, a utopian ideal, or possibly a nation. What comes out of all of this? Within Sikhi the center does not hold. The khandas with machine guns are one, just one, of many ways to grab with passion onto a political identity which never seems to jell. To have an identity! If only to have the sort of identity which, under Dasam Pita, Sikhs had and which, under the missls and Ranjit Singh, Sikhs had. There are many symbols around that speak to a deep well of pain for a lost identity.
     
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    #4 spnadmin, Jan 31, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  6. gurtej khubbar

    gurtej khubbar
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    I appreciate knowledgable people here and specially gyani jarnail Singh g, but I beg to differ with him on the concept of dasam Granth. Again I am not that
    Knowledgable with the while Granth but a part of me always believe that this is dasam pita bani.. I have read it a bit and so far got no issues bu then again I hardly read 10 pages or so. But my grandad was a big believer and always said , people need to read this not as Shabad guru but as a source of learning. Reading with positive mind just completely changes the prospect of its texts.

    Bhul chuk maff..
     
  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Its more than OK..and perfectly as per GURMATT..to differ, seek answers, question...look around....and then again no one has the monopoly on TRUTH...and if we all become YES MEN..Haan Ji Haan Ji types..that makes for a very BORING Life...and SATGUR mera Nit navaan Gurmatt Sikhi sggs gurbani is Brand new daily...a brand new perspective..outlook is the Gurus Present to us..on a constant basis as we delve into Gurbani and seek His Blessings...Each SIKH is treated individually by the GURU..no apologies needed or guilty feelings..we all DISCOVER TRUTHS..at our own pace...MY Dad was a great beleiver in DG too...in fact he was one of the PANJ who was always pressed to recite JAAP SAHIB...because all the others shied away form this as its very easy to "get lost" in Jaap sahib...BUT IF he had the RESOURCES I have at my mouse click...he would agree with me 110%. I ma sure all thsoe of his generation and thsoe who went before him..had NO resources that would show what we know..I can safely bet anyone that they havent even SEEN the DG much less read it and understood it...or even the SGGS for that matter ?? How many Sikhs have actually "seen" the complete SGGS..page by page..??? Very very few...vast majority make do with matha tek...and how many ahve even heard of the other granths attributed to Guru Gobind Singh..Sarb Loh Granth..etc etc...waiting in LINE to be admitted once the DG gets inside...!!! The NAMDHREES and the NIHUNGS are the ONLY ones at present to give equal reverence to the THREE - SGGS-DG-SLG...BUT its only a matter of time...before the YOUNGEST 'son" SLG stakes its claim on Mainstream Sikhs as DG is doing now...WHEN GURU SAHIBS in HUMAN BODY passed on GURGADEE..various HUMAN RIVALS contineud the FIGHT to claim Gurgadee..right form GRU NANAK Jis time..to the 22 RIVAL "gurus" at GURU TEG BAHADUR JIS TIME... and in 1708 when Guru Gobind Singh Ji ended this HUMAN GURUDOM and installed the GRANTH GURU -SGGS..the same RIVALRY BEGAN...and DG is the first claimant...SLG is NEXT...SRI CHAND UDASI..DHIRMALL..RAM RAIYAS..MEENNAS..SODHIS..etc etc in Human Form..and books NOW..same strategy. AAKLEEAN SAHIB SEVEAH..is GURBANI FURMAAN...lets use OUR OWN BRAINS...not follow blindly..Rest is up to GURU- PARSAAD..
     
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  8. SaintSoldier1699

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    The main issue is putting this Granth on par with Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

    We read all sorts in life, magazines, newspapers, internet forums etc etc and gain insight into lots of things about life (from both positive and negative sources).

    So, if one feels to read this granth and get something positive from it so be it.

    But to claim it to be 100% Bani and essential to Sikhism is foolish and goes against the core principals of Guru Granth Sahib and our 10th Masters order.
     
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  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    .
    so is readers digest, but I have yet to see one in a Gurdwara
     
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  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Why can't people simply accept that Sikhism is now divided between pro Dasam granth sects and anti Dasam granth
     
  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    lol lol lol lol lol

    your kidding?

    Let me see, we have the 3HO's, Nirankaris, Namdharis, Nihangs, Sanatan, those that believe in reincarnation, those that do not, the ones that look like Sikhs, but have no idea, idol worshipers, etc etc etc etc.

    Know what, sometimes its hard to believe all this came out of some conspiracy by those that would benefit from the demise of Sikhism, I think we can do a pretty good job ourselves in dividing, maybe its time we took responsibility for that instead,

    the best we can hope for is that we all find common ground to bind us, rather than uncommon ground to divide us.
     
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  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    I am speaking the truth.If you believe that suddenly all pro DG will discard Dasam granth or anti DG will accept Dasam granth then it is just like " Alice in wonderland thinking"

    There is no common ground.people need to accept that others have different thinking rather being rigid and trying to prove how their thinking or their version of sikhism is true
     
  13. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    kds ji

    I do agree with you. The panth is already divided. But "accepting" will not make divisions disappear, not that you are saying that will happen. You are saying something else. However...

    "Accept" is a hard word...these camps are far apart. You say yourself that the camps are divided. "Understand" ... I think both sides already understand each other.

    For example, I can understand the many ways in which women in Saudi are restricted. There are even Saudi women who agree that these restrictions are good. But I cannot accept it. And I cannot accept that all Saudi women must follow along. But I understand how this happens.

    I can understand how Durga in Dasam Granth may represent some spiritual and martial urge that some Sikhs aspire to. But I cannot accept that Dasam Pita wrote hymns of Durga. I cannot accept that Dasam Pita wrote Chaubis Avtar. How can anyone accept when so much of Dasam Granth contradicts so much of what is true of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That argument in itself is a topic for a forum thread.

    There is no middle ground either with Dasam Granth because what is argued cannot be grounds to "accept" or to compromise ... there are questions of logic, fact, history and authenticity that can't be abandoned. The argument will continue. Who knows? The division, the inability to compromise, in some distant future may actually turn out to be healthy.
     
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  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    tHE "divisions" BEGAN WITH bABA sri chand oPENLY REVOLTING AGAINST guru nanak jI AND STARTING THE udasiS.....and this DIVISION CONTINUED..dasu dattu. mohan mohrris.prithi chnad meennas masands dhirmalliahs ramrais..namdharees nirnakarees ram rahims ..and WILL CONTINUE....BUT those who followed GURU ANGAD..never "accepted" Sri Chand and his udasis..those who follwoed Guru hargobind Ji never accepted dhirmallih sodhis ..those who followed Guru har rai ji never follwoed Ram rai..and those who followed GURU TEG BAHADUR ji never accepted the 22 gurus..and so on...those who FOLLOW SGGS will NEVER ACCEPT the DG....because it belongs to the SRI CHAND SIDE of the "family"..those who have OPPOSED GURU NANAK from DAY ONE.:happysingh:japposatnamwaheguru:swordfight
     
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  15. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Yes, but these same pro-khalistanis are the one's over here in the west that make a big 'noise' and rhaullah, but in reality they would never sell their business's or livelihood over here to move 'Back' over there.

    I would like to see and acknowledge even a handful that have left everything here in the west and moved to 'Punjab to be campaigning for Khalistan right there on the doorstep !!

    In a similar way, the same pro-DG groups who demand prakash of it besides the SGGS ji, are the very ones that don't make the slightest effort to even research and question the contents.

    I said it before on another thread, but from what I researched, I have to really think hard and deep to get some gurmat message out of it.
    In the same way, I can and have also gotten similar gurmat messages from Hollywood movies, classic rock and even Elvis !!

    Therefore, I question why would Guruji gives us another entire granth in which one has to look so deep to get the 'secret' messages, whereas we have the Adi Granth where the messgae is there clearly on the surface and just gets deeper and stronger the harder you look into it.
     
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  16. OP
    Chaan Pardesi

    Chaan Pardesi United Kingdom
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    I think we need to keep this issue within the perspective.What are the contents of the dasam kitab?Are they parralell to Gurbani of Guru Granth sahib?If they are not, then what "knowledge" are we seeking in context of Sikhi from that is not bani; and very specifically is in opposition to Gurbani If we continue on that wave then ,we may may be bordering on manmat.Gurmat and manmat does not go hand in hand.

    So, we have to choose.There is no question of being flexible here.Either you are in or you are out.For Sikhs there is no two granths; BUT ONE GURU GRANTH, which was without doubt established by Guru Gobind Singh.ALL GURBANI is in the Guru Granth sahib.ANYTHING OUTSIDE IT IS NOT GURBANI but writings.Any writings of Guru Gobind Singh is also writings, not Guru Bani.If Guru Ji wanted he would have added it to the Guru Granth sahib.PERIOD.

    What came later as Bachiter Natak, Samund sager, Vidya sager, then as dasam paatshah da granth, and dasam granth and now discreetly being pushed as sriguru dasam granth was not Guru instructed; but pushed by variuous people with vested interests in it and their own popularity.That is a very clear line division here.

    The various names changes over the period indicates they were changing accordingly to get it accepted.Unfortunately, all the so called educated Gianis of that period came from Kashi.At Kashi there is NO Sikh SCHOOL>there are vedantak philosophical schools based upon the udasi and nirmala thought.They also studied Hindu mythological tales, and were heavily influenced by the brahman mind.There was also no such analysis as is available these days to disect the so called writings of the old.It was by word of mouth passed on.Thus it is understandable that Sikhs blindly followed what was told to them,and had it blindly pushed down people throats with all sorts reasoning.

    Such thought can no longer apply.I believe that if people still continue to believe in such silly concepts of kachi bani,then we are doing diservice to the Gurus and contributing badly to the undermining of the Sikh panth.

    The solution should have been simple;100 years ago when the panth decided to end the discussion upon the alledged dasam granth; the writings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji should have been taken out and binded into a smaller book.But because the kashi influenced education was strong;thus an action to appease both sides; and protect their own was taken, which is now causing massive divisions.In fact, I am suprised that the book called sarbloh is being now pushed as that of Guru Gobind singh ji.They have seen their success with the dasam granth and now copying the same route.

    The problem here is these books are not simply used to read as additional "knowledge", even if it clashes with Sikh thought,[manmat] the problem is these books are being sat along the Guru Granth sahib, and that is the aim of these fringe self made groups.These groups belong to the babadom, and all they are interested is imposing THEIR will upon the rest of the Panth.

    I think we must keep the question of khalistan out side the remit here, although, one of the reasons this dasam book is being pushed is to counter act that issue among Sikhs.
     
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    #15 Chaan Pardesi, Feb 1, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    SPN admin ji

    Religion is primarily based on faith.Once a faith of person is attached then he/she needs no proof.take the case of uncut hair and turban were requirement for sikhs from 1st guru to 9th guru.There is no proof that uncut hair was required for non amritdhari sikhs by Guru gobind singh? Yet today sikhs give most importance to turban and uncut hair

    Arya Samaj came , tried to reform hinduism , not only attacked all its sects but also other religions.Called itself rational , logical alternative .What happened ? very few true Arya samaji's are left now and it is now another sects among millions of sect in hinduism.

    Those who have faith in Dasam granth will never give it up .As for future nobody knows what lies in it but chances of all sikhs suddenly waking up and accepting that Dasam granth is not by Guru gobind singh is impossible
     
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  18. justosh

    justosh
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    has anyone considered that JAAP sahib, Tav Prasad Swaye, and Benti chaupai, not to mention the ardass, or Jale Hari Thale Hari... even Khlasa mero Roop hai Kass...etc. Are from there...

    Even rehras sahib Sahib has Benti chaupai.

    5 anmrit banis + anmrit sanchar + ardass = PANTH

    Take any of them out = NO PANTH
     
  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    justosh ji

    There is no panth without Guru Granth. The idea that there is no panth without Dasam Granth is a slogan being spread on social networks and web sites to stir people up. Khalsa was created 2 centuries before a "Dasam Granth" ever appeared on the scene.

    Your other points: Scholars who doubt that Dasam Pita composed the DG are on a continuuum. One end doubt all of it; the others doubt specific hymns such as Chaubis Avtar. The exact reason goes back to whether there even was a "Sri Dasam Granth Sahib" before 1901 - 1903, when the granth was assembled from individual hymns.

    For nearly 200 hundred years "Dasam Granth" was never mentioned. Earlier collections of individual hymns often did not match on contents, and went by different names. Sri Dasam Granth Sahib is a recent title. All of that led to suspicion by the middle of the 20th Century. The very first collection of poems bound together as a book was commissioned by the British India Tea Company, and it did not even surface until the early 1800's at the request for Sikh Scriptures by the Victoria Albert Museum in London.

    The specific prayers you mention, specified in the Sikh Rehat Maryada, in my opinion, are there because the SRM was constructed during the early 20 th century. The first systematic investigation into the authenticity of the Dasam Granth was underway years later, the middle of the 20th Century. There were scholars in doubt before that, but their efforts were less wide-ranging.

    You want to search under "Dasam Granth" on our forum homepage and read the articles on history of the Dasam Granth. There are several selections there that give very specific names and findings and trace the mysterious history of the Dasam Granth. The starter article by Chaan Pardesi ji also traces some of my points.
     
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    #18 spnadmin, Feb 1, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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  21. justosh

    justosh
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    okay, but who can loudly claim with full faith that "Guru Gobing Singh did not write dasam granth"... and if someone can.... then ask we should ask... are you now at the level of Guru Gobind Singh, or even high to dictate what they wrote and didn't.
     
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