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What Is Good? What Is Bad?

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What Is Good? What Is Bad?

Harry Haller

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I have lots of people come into my shop, a whole cross section of people, some take the time to talk to me, some don't, I try and learn what I can from people, my pre conceived ideas have taken a tumble over the years, and my customers include solicitors, accountants, teachers, artists, drug users, drug dealers, prostitutes, pimps, thieves, to name but a few.

good-bad.jpg


Immediately, one assumes the first group is good, the second is bad, but is it really that simple, I have posted another thread about the meaning of life being the search for the true 'you', one could argue the first group have found themselves and the second have not, but again, is it really that simple.

I find members of the first group embrace their 'personality', the solicitor looks like a solicitor, as does the teacher and so forth, however, the prostitute, the pimp and the drug dealer tend to not, if anything, I find the second group more honest about who they are, they do not seem to be playing a role, but are just people who do things that in our society are either illegal or distasteful.

The SGGS cautions us to which company to keep, but how can we help people if we stay away from the second group? and unless someone is brutally honest about who they are, how can we know anyway?

How many accountants and solicitors are girl baby killers? how many would kill a daughter for bringing shame? yet these people are sometimes pillars of our society, yet if I decided to marry an ex prostitute, my mother would have plenty to say!

people are people, there is good and bad in everyone, I find it easier to get on with honest people than those who hide behind respectability.

I think at the end of the day all we can do is treat humankind as one!

however the question is what is good? what is bad?
 

N30S1NGH

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Gurbani essence is Absolute truth/reality. However, it also talks about relative realities as gurbani connects to all various consciousness/mindset.

There is good and bad mentioned clearly in Gurbani but that has to be taken as relative realities not absolute. In relative realities mentioned by gurbani there is good and bad mentioned to help seeker to improve life and to transcendent. However, In absolute reality-essence of gurbani truth (see-sukhmani sahib asthpadi 21) there is no good or bad. Everything is One in all, all in one-Pure expression of Truth.
 

Harry Haller

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my point is that those that appear good, sometimes are not, and those that appear bad, sometimes are not,

you say there is no good or bad, but we are encouraged by the SGGS to keep good company, not bad company, could you explain that given the terms you have used?
 

N30S1NGH

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Off course we are encouraged by sri guru granth sahib ji to keep good company but thats part of relative realities we live in (separate world), relatives realities are there in gurbani to cater to the seeker/beginner and help seeker to transcendence but once absolute truth as whole is realized those distinctions good and bad company are gone away- even slight perception of good and bad is gone there is no seperate good or bad as same sri guru granth sahib ji talks about there is no good or bad from absolute point of view.

Allow me to provide one example based on my research and understanding:

World is false-maya/illusion -dream like -relative as separate relative reality perception (see-shalok nauvan and other places) but same world/ universe is true as eh sansar Hari roop as absolute truth (see-anand sahib).

Only way to reconcile these positions which are at the opposite side of spectrum is context of relative and absolute and ultimately shift of perception, transcendence to absolute reality otherwise one may feel doubts/feel contradictions regarding positions held in both compositions.
 

Harry Haller

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Off course we are encouraged by sri guru granth sahib ji to keep good company
It does beg the question what is good company, as stated, my company can include drug dealers, prostitutes, loan sharks, all of whom I consider good company, am I wrong?

but thats part of relative realities we live in (separate world), relatives realities are there in gurbani to cater to the seeker/beginner and help seeker to transcendence but once absolute truth as whole is realized those distinctions good and bad company are gone away-
would you class yourself a seeker/beginner?
what does transcendence mean?
At what stage does absolute truth realise? are you there yourself yet? if you are not, how can you make any distinction now?
even slight perception of good and bad is gone there is no seperate good or bad as same sri guru granth sahib ji talks about there is no good or bad from absolute point of view.
again, are you at this stage? or is it a stage that you have theorised about?
World is false-maya/illusion -dream like -relative as separate relative reality perception (see-shalok nauvan and other places) but same world/ universe is true as eh sansar Hari roop as absolute truth (see-anand sahib).
this is not an example, it does not actually mean anything, perhaps you could rewrite it in simple english so I can understand it.
Only way to reconcile these positions which are at the opposite side of spectrum is context of relative and absolute and ultimately shift of perception, transcendence to absolute reality otherwise one may feel doubts/feel contradictions regarding positions held in both compositions.
people like you do a great job of turning something very simple into something not very simple, why?
 

Sherdil

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Good and bad are subjective interpretations of the circumstances.

A lion kills a gazelle. This is good for the lion, who will get to feed its family, but bad for the gazelle.

When we look at things objectively, we don't see good or bad. We only see the Hukam.

Our measure of good and bad should be based on the level of proximity to the Divine. Those things that bring us closer to the Beloved are good. Those things that take us away from the Beloved are bad.

The One takes the form of sinners and saints, so who is good and who is bad? Those who assist you in your journey to realize the One within yourself should be kept close. They are the Sadh Sangat (True Company). Those who draw you away from the Divine should be kept at arms length.

You are the company you keep.
 

Harry Haller

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The One takes the form of sinners and saints, so who is good and who is bad? Those who assist you in your journey to realize the One within yourself should be kept close. They are the Sadh Sangat (True Company). Those who draw you away from the Divine should be kept at arms length.

You are the company you keep.
what about those who need assistance with their own journey, what if your own journey ceased to be of any importance?

What if those that were assisting you had their own agenda? What if those that were drawing you away were the very reason for your existence?
 

Sherdil

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what about those who need assistance with their own journey, what if your own journey ceased to be of any importance?

What if those that were assisting you had their own agenda? What if those that were drawing you away were the very reason for your existence?
This is a good sentiment to have. Surround yourself with people who share this sentiment. Avoid people who only care about themselves, lest you become like them.
 

Pathfinder

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At sea when we were cadets, we would often be on lookout duties. More so when visibility would be restricted due to fog, rain or storms. We would see a blip visually on the horizon and declare a guess - she's a container, she's a tanker etc..

Sometimes we would be right, sometimes we would be wrong.

Truth is, all our guesses would be random and baseless and based on no 'truth'.

Fast forward to life on land:
It's just the reverse.
It's the same game we play with some basic modifications.

All the people we meet are classified as good or bad by us to ourselves based on a close physical look or a random, quick encounter, BUT once again - 'all our guesses would be random and baseless and based on no 'truth'.

The 'first group' here has a edge over the 'second group' due to the fact that they play their 'roles - at least in public' better than the latter group. Yes, it is a fact that 'second group' is more honest usually.

Does it mean the second group is better?. No.
Does it mean the first group is better? No.

Both have good and bad in them. We just cannot classify any one group as a whole as this or that.

Some find more good folks in the first and some in the second.

Most folks in both the groups have the power to alter our existence in a positive way. Some inspire us, some are inspired by us. (The latter seems unbelievable I know but is true - believe me).

So no matter which group we come across let us simply - 'inspire or be inspired'.
 

swarn bains

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truth is two types. the first one is which we use to satisfy our ego and give lot of explanations to justify
the next one is that belongs to soul. the soul questions and counter questions especially at night while going to sleep. if the souls is satisfied we find peace if it is not then we are restless and find it difficult to sleep. thanks
 

chazSingh

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i see it like this...

if i want to succeed at tai-chi....i talk, liaise, share experiences with people that also want to succeed in Tai chi...

if i want to climb a mountain...i seek the company of people that have done this and from whom i can learn...

for a certain purpose, you are best in the company of the right people...you support one another...you don't judge one another and you take the up and down, the good and the bad...but with a focus on what you need to achieve...

it is that simple...but that doesn't mean you cut yourself off everyone and everything else...

everything servers its purpose...at different stages of ones development...
you do bad, to recognize whats good...sometimes within the company of others doing bad...
when you learn from this...your company might change...to...hanging around with people who do more charity...and people who work out, because you want to get fit...

as your actions get better, you may think..."urm....does God exist..." ... and then you take company of people asking the same question...

but throughout all this, you might still cross paths and still have the company of the various types...

i see this in my life...
 
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Harry Haller

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if i want to succeed at tai-chi....i talk, liaise, share experiences with people that also want to succeed in Tai chi...
I am brilliant at tai-chi, should take 30 mins, I'm done in 10!
 

RD1

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  • Ek noor te sabhu jagu upjiaa kaun bhale ko mande: From this One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? (sggs 1349).

  • Naa hamm cha(n)ge aakheeah buraa na disai koi: I am not called good, and I see none who are bad (sggs 1015).
 

Harry Haller

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RD1ji,

single lines mean nothing, and possibly everything, if you are going to quote SGGS you really need to quote the entire shabad with your own understanding of such.
 

RD1

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Thank you. However, these single lines within themselves certainly hold meaning and inspiration for me. Going forward though I will post the entire shabad so they can be viewed within their entire context.
 

dalvindersingh grewal

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I have lots of people come into my shop, a whole cross section of people, some take the time to talk to me, some don't, I try and learn what I can from people, my pre conceived ideas have taken a tumble over the years, and my customers include solicitors, accountants, teachers, artists, drug users, drug dealers, prostitutes, pimps, thieves, to name but a few.

View attachment 19514

Immediately, one assumes the first group is good, the second is bad, but is it really that simple, I have posted another thread about the meaning of life being the search for the true 'you', one could argue the first group have found themselves and the second have not, but again, is it really that simple.

I find members of the first group embrace their 'personality', the solicitor looks like a solicitor, as does the teacher and so forth, however, the prostitute, the pimp and the drug dealer tend to not, if anything, I find the second group more honest about who they are, they do not seem to be playing a role, but are just people who do things that in our society are either illegal or distasteful.

The SGGS cautions us to which company to keep, but how can we help people if we stay away from the second group? and unless someone is brutally honest about who they are, how can we know anyway?

How many accountants and solicitors are girl baby killers? how many would kill a daughter for bringing shame? yet these people are sometimes pillars of our society, yet if I decided to marry an ex prostitute, my mother would have plenty to say!

people are people, there is good and bad in everyone, I find it easier to get on with honest people than those who hide behind respectability.

I think at the end of the day all we can do is treat humankind as one!

however the question is what is good? what is bad?
The proverb: There is nothing good or bad, it is thinking which makes it so' has been found to be time tested and truly applicable
 

Harry Haller

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The proverb: There is nothing good or bad, it is thinking which makes it so' has been found to be time tested and truly applicable
how does that work when a large hairy man is raping your sister in front of you?

Personally, I think that is quite bad, but then, is that just my thinking?
 

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