What Is Faith And Dharama As Per Gurbani

[harpreetsingh]

Thank you once again Sir for providing useful information and guidance as above.Your posts are really nice.

Thanks and regards.

 

[harpreetsingh]

I give below a reply received from the administrator of a very popular Sikhi Site. I am sharing the information about Naam in very general nature.

Quote
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Many thanks for visiting the site.

You are right, Naam is very important as a Sikh. It is the meditation of Gods name.
You first have to clean out your mind. This is done by sitting in a quite place and concentrating on nothing.

Which is harder then one thinks. Every time a thought appears in the mind it has to be pushed away.

Once you can concentrate on nothingness then you start to repeat the Name. This can be done out aloud first
and as you get used to it you will start whispering it, in time you will just mime it, and ultimately you will repeat it
in the mind, but always without any other thought coming in the mind.

So, what is the Name ? It can be Waheguru, it can be Satnaam Waheguru, Ekoan Kaar, it can be Raam, Raheem,
Allah or even Jehova. The point is, you are remembering the one God, your father. I would say Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu are created by Akaal Purkh so ultimately you can only attain that level that they are and could not go any further.

Please ask what you like, however I am no authority, I can only answer with the little knowledge Akaal Purkh has blessed me.

**********************************************
Unquote

 

[Astroboy]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Amrit Bani (Gurbani) was the Guru from the very beginning. Sri Guru Nanak Sahib illuminated the world through Gurbani. The same divine Jot continued the process of illumination through Gurbani in the luminous form of Sri Guru Angad Sahib. Sri Guru Nanak Sahib continued the divine process through Sri Guru Amar Das Ji and so on. Illumination continues unabated through the same Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib. For Gurmukhs, the eternal illumination is flowing straight from the holy lips of Jot Roop Har Guru Nanak whereas others only perceive a holy book in front. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is 'JAAGDI JOT', LIVING SRI GURU NANAK SAHIB.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]said Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj[/FONT]

 

[harpreetsingh]

Respected Begum ji,
Very many thanks for the nice post as usual.
Coming back to the original question as to what should be ;faith' and dharma' within the context , I have to state as follows.

'Faith' would mean that we should have faith that HE is SaT and our 'dharma' is to be woth HIm and merge into HIM.

How it is to be done may be known to many of my friends but for me it still is a mystery. May be I lack that kind of intellect and would always be receptive to all the guidance that the Sangat has to provide.

I am within the periphery of finding as to the meaning of Guru as well. Many times it is felt that term 'Guru' is beyond our 'sabad guru'. Kindly opine.


Regards.
Nhul chuk mauf

 

[spnadmin]

Harpreetsingh ji

This last set of comments between you and Begum ji are really nice. You respect one another and it shows. A conversation happens when each partner thinks about what the other has said and responds in a thoughtful way, and in a way that takes the ideas shared to the next level.

A rare phenomenon in any context of shared speech today.

To change your fonts to Gurbani, select Edit Post, and then on the next screen select Go Advanced. Your current comment will appear at the top of the next screen against a blue background. At the bottom of that same screen will be the same comment in plain text in the Message window.

Highlight the lines you want to change. You will notice in the toolbar that there is now something new - a Font icon or button with a little arrow. If you click on the arrow a number of Gurbani font choices will appear. Select the one you want and the font will change. When you are finished, select Save.

Let me know if this was helpful. If you want I can go in and edit for you.

 

[Astroboy]

Pyare Harpreet Singh Ji and aad002 Penji,

It is no co-incident that people with like minds find each other's views interesting and joyful. I am only a humble servant of the Lord who is also working through the maze of duality and trying to rise above this stage because according to the various quotes of Gurbani (Guru's written knowledge), once we rise above the consciousness of applied duality in our daily lives, the SAT will manifest. SAT is already here and now but the veil of duality is still thick.

Many use the various devotional ways to see beyond this veil of Maya.
Here are some of the ways suggested.

A little hint on Guru. Guru is not a physical form.
We call Nanak the Guru, but Nanak never called himself a Guru. Nanak's bani (written word) points to SAT Guru (God).
If you read the sakhi of Koda Rakhshas, he had seen the physical form of Guru Nanak, but he did not change his evil ways just by seeing Guru Nanak's physical. He only changed after listening to Guru Nanak's wisdom. Another sakhi about Sajjan Thug goes along the same lines. This is the same wisdom which is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Two Aspects Of The Shabad

Shabad-Surti Or Shabad-Consciousness

Shabad-Kamaayee Or Practice

The Process Of Shabad-Kamaayee

Listening And Reading About The Divine Truth

Perceiving Of The Truth

Becoming One With What Has Been Perceived

(Source: Realization Of The Shabad Or Naam)

 

[Sikh80]

respected Begum ji,
I am in agreement with the observations of the authors of this thread. The thread touches very important aspect of sikhism. Hence I am reviving this thread so that discussion can be made more meaningful.

It is true that as per Gurbani that we should meet HIM in our lifespan else we have wasted our lives. This has been stated in Sri Guru Granth sahib ji as well. The route of merger with is 'Naam' and that is received as a 'mehr' from HIMSELF who is our True Guru. In this context our SGGS will have a very limited role that it should provide us guidance to achieve this objective.


It is also in Gurbani that it is almost impossible to attain HIM. In that case we should always have recourse to the Almighty to guide us. Secondly , if someone has a doubt the meaning of Gurbani where should one go. There is not a single school that I am aware of, where one is explained the meaning of the various 'Tuks' of sabad guru.

The term Guru has ,seemingly, different meanings but it is clear that in majority of places it seems that Gurbani is referring to the Almighty as Guru. We cannot have two Gurus.One will tend to take the instructions from Guru Granth sahib ji and then proceed further if one is capable of. Receiving Naam is ,supposedly, the objective of many of us. We may disagree on this. I submit this so that we can have a healthy discussion.

 

[Astroboy]

Seeker07 Ji,

You said receiving Naam as an objective which is a disputable thing. I have to agree with you here.

The way I understand, Naam is not a phrase or word like a mantra.

What is Your understanding of Naam ?

 

[Sikh80]

Respected Sir,

Your answer is very diplomatically drafted.

However, I shall be frank with you. My mother in law visited me a few days back. She is an Amritdhari Lady and is very punctual in maintaing the Sikhi ways of Life. I had asked her what is Naam for ‘sikh’. She responded without any hesitation or delay. I would also fall in line and would state that ‘waheguru’ is the Naam for me. As on date,there is no reason for me to believe otherwise.

‘Naam’ may not be a word . I should not know the answer to your question if the answer is other wise. After referring to Granth Sahib ji one may think that Naam is or may be a state of mind as it is present in every one of us.

I am quoting few lines as follows:

nwmu AauKDu soeI jnu pwvY ] (179-4, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
He alone receives the panacea, the medicine of the Naam,
kir ikrpw ijsu Awip idvwvY ] (179-4, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
unto whom the Lord, in His Grace, bestows it.
The following lines are also helpful for deducing something called as /Naam’.

sB ikCu qyrw qUM krxYhwru ] (178-17, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
Everything is Yours; You are the Creator Lord.

AMqu nwhI ikCu pwrwvwru ] (178-17, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
You have no end or limitation.


dws Apny kau dIjY dwnu ] (178-17, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
Please give this gift to Your servant,

kbhU n ivsrY nwnk nwmu ]5]9]78] (178-18, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
that Nanak might never forget the Naam. ||5||9||78||


From the above lines I get some indication that Naam should be something that should not be forgotten and it is equivalent to the name of the Lord that has the energy present in it that is the insignia of the Lord Himself. Hence it cannot be a state of mind.


nwmu AauKDu soeI jnu pwvY ] (179-4, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
[He alone receives the panacea, the medicine of the Naam,]


kir ikrpw ijsu Awip idvwvY ] (179-4, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 5)
unto whom the Lord, in His Grace, bestows it.]

Again from the following ‘Tuks’

gurmqI Git cwnxw sbid imlY hir nwau ]2] (30-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
[Through the Guru's Teachings, the heart is illuminated. Through the Shabad, the Name of the Lord is received. |]


Following lines are quoted for reference:

nwmu inDwnu sd min vsY mhlI pwvY Qwau ]1] rhwau ] (30-8, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)

[The Treasure of the Naam abides forever within the mind, and one's place of rest is found in the Mansion of the Lord's Presence.]


As per the above ‘Naam ‘ is present in the mind and one has to realize this. As I do not have indepth knowledge of the bani , I do conclude that One has to realise the naam and that it should be either a state of mind or should be ‘akhar’ or some ‘sabad’ only.This may be in the form of cosmic energy that may be pervading in ‘etheric Akaash’ and we have to feel the vibes as this energy is energised by the Naam.

As per the following it should be something that should not be forgotten.

nwnk gurmuiK nwmu iDAweIAY sic imlwvw hoie ]4]13]46] (31-15, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
[O Nanak, the Gurmukh meditates on the Naam, and is united with the True Lord. ]

Following line is also suggestive that Naam should be a word only or something like a feeling/state of mine that is beyond description e’g the taste of salt can best be explained by some word and hence we have to take the help of some words to explain the concept of Naam else we cannot discuss about this.

AMimRqu swcw nwmu hY khxw kCU n jwie ] (33-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)

[The True Name is the Ambrosial Nectar; no one can describe it.]

It is given or realised if He bestows His grace.

Awpy dyie q pweIAY horu krxw ikCU n jwie ] (33-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
[He Himself gives, and then we receive. Nothing else can be done.]


I think., Sir, that I have tried to answer you honestly. Would be very grateful if you could share your point of view. I fail to go beyond this because of limited knowledge.

Regards.

 

[Sikh80]

Respected Begum ji,
The 'Naam' is generally not discussed on the forums. However, as we have started this let us take it to some logical end that we derive the benefit. It is fully appreciated that you may have entirely different point of view But that you should explain. We are here to not to fight .Rather we are sharing for mutual benefit. There is nothing right or wrong in Dharma as it is not a perfected branch or science. We are discussing something that would qualify for 'metaphysical'. Kindly do not make me refer some other web-sites.The essence is lost in this process.
I give below the 'quotes' of SGGS ji for your kind perusal.

jo n sunih jsu prmwnµdw ] (188-7, gauVI, mÚ 5)
Those who do not listen to the Praises of the Lord of supreme bliss,
psu pMKI iqRgd join qy mMdw ]3] (188-8, gauVI, mÚ 5)
are worse off than beasts, birds or creeping creatures. ||3||
khu nwnk guir mMqRü idRVwieAw ] (188-8, gauVI, mÚ 5)
Says Nanak, the GurMantra has been implanted within me;
kyvl nwmu ird mwih smwieAw ]4]42]111] (188-8, gauVI, mÚ 5)
the Name alone is contained within my heart.

The above clearly contains the term like Guru Mantra and Naam that in translation has been stated to be Name. I am not in agreement with this translation as well.
What is your take on this.

 

[Astroboy]

Seeker07 Ji,

I thank you for giving me and others an opportunity to involve ourselves on the finer points of Sikhism. It is a learning process for me. My style of answer is often an indirect approach because most questions yearn for fulfilling the thirst which is within. You may enquire about Shabad, Naad, Naam, Mantar, Gurmantar, Gurparsad, Guru, True Guru or Satguru - they are all going to lead you to the same source; the fountain of amrit within. You might be disappointed by my answers or they might lead you to ask more questions. So long as you look on the outside of yourself for the answers, you are definitely going to be dissappointed.

Irrespective of caste, creed, sex, descendency; all individuals come into this world from the mother's womb by the union of sperm and ovum.
Kabir while addressing a high caste priest, told him: "O Brahman, should you claim high birth and on that account special privileges, you ought to have been born in a way different from that of the rest."

Spirituality is really a universal truth rather than religious. Therefore, all wisdom from the various religious scriptures should have a common goal which is that of a Godly nature.

God cannot be realised outside oneself, even in the holy places of worship, no matter what their denomination might be. To realise Him, one has to enter into the laboratory of the human body which in the truest sense of the word is the temple of God. Real worship and devotion are purely internal and mental processes, unconnected with and independent of any and everything outside the human frame. All that is required is purity of mind. With an ethical background, one can worship God anywhere under the blue sky, for the whole world is a vast temple of God, and there is no place without Him, including the specific places of worship. In fact, wheresoever devotion kneels in humility, that place becomes sanctified.


More Later.

 

[Sikh80]

Respected Sir,

Have gone thru. your post very carefully. I am not likely to be disappointed by your answers as this is the area which not many authors have covered in detail. Infact, there is no adequate literature available on this subject and many preachers have their own view points.

I am totally ignorant so far as this aspect of Naam/shabad/naad /sound current and obviously includes The explanation of the term Guru that you have very clearly stated in the above post. Entire Sikhi and Bani is only about a good human being and obtaining 'the Jewel' within or wherever it should be.

These terms are of immense significance for the community of sikhs as a whole and would be of interest to all the visitor of the site.

It is true that you would be required to answer some questions of mine that may appear irrelevant when asked in future posts of mine. Kindly forgive me for this. But I have a strong urge to explore as to how to reach that 'jewel' that is , even as per gurbani, within all of us.

We should be very free and frank and should not answer in indirect method or using a language that may lead to more than one meaning. In such a case the discussion becomes abstract.

There are many articles on 'Naam' on this site. I have gone thru. some of them. None has cleared the concept of Naam. I would be grateful from the core of heart if you begin with your post and kindly bear with me for my impatience and ignorance.

Best Of Regards.

 

[Astroboy]

Seeker07 Ji,

Let me start with some verse from Gurbani and other sources,


Sant Kabir says, "O Pandit, you and I cannot possibly agree in our conclusions, for you speak of things as you have read in sacred texts, while I speak what I have seen".

Guru Nanak says,
"Nanak does not utter a single syllable of His own, except as He is moved from within".


Christ said, "I do nothing of myself; but as my Father has taught me, I speak these things".

What is Naam ?



In the Nad-bind Upanishad, we find,

A yogin ought to sit in Sidha Asan, and adopting​

Vaishnavi Mudra, should hear within him the "Sound"​

coming from the right side. (Nad-bind Shalok 31)​

In the Muslim scriptures, It is variously described as Kalam-i-Ilahi (The Voice of God), Nida-i-Asmani (the Sound from Heaven), Ism-i-Azam (the Great Name), Saut-i-Sarmadi (the Intoxicating Sound), Saut-i-Nasira (the Sound Melodious), Kalam-i-Majid (the Great Commandment) and Kalam-i-Haq (the Voice of Truth) which can be heard inside, and It was taught as Sultan-ul-Azkar or the King of prayers.​

And listen to the call of Music coming from above.​

MAULANA RUMI​

The whole world is reverberating with Sound,​

To listen to It thou must unseal thine inner ears,​

Then shalt thou hear an Unending Music,​

And that shall lead thee beyond the confines of death. SHAH NIAZ​

Drive away all skepticism from thy mind,​

And listen to the strains of heavenly music,​

And receive within thee the messages of God,​

For these come only by holy communion with the self.​

The Prophet declared that he heard the Voice of God,​

And it fell on his ears as clearly as any other sound,​

But God has sealed thy ears,​

And so ye listen not to His Voice.​

MAULANA RUMI​

Philosophical: The Divine Name, Word or Sabad, as used by Guru Nanak, from the philosophical point of view, comes very close to the concept of the Logos in the ancient European Philosophy. It has a great similarity with the doctrine of the Logos as propounded by Philo Judaes, who lived in Alexandria in the first-half of first century B.C. and first-half of first century A.D. According to the doctrine of Logos, the Word is the creative, actively expressed and revelatory thought and Will of God which is at once distinguished and identified with Him. It is the immanent Rational Principle in the universe, and it is the active principle in all divine and esoteric knowledge. The Logos is the Reality of all realities underlying the whole universe. It is the First Substance from which everything has its origin.​

Theological: The Divine Name, or Sabad, is identified with the presence of God which can be realized in one’s own consciousness. All spiritual expression of divine knowledge by the Gurus is called ‘Sabad’, or ‘Bani’. In practical, religious and mystical life, each prophet or Guru gave a word, or a formula of words, which not only describes the divine spirit but also, when used for practice in contemplation, was instrumental to the complete realization of the Divine presence. Therefore, from the theological point of view, according to Guru Nanak, there are two types of Names: Firstly, there are attributive names of the Supreme Reality, such as, Hari, Govind, Ram, Haq, Rahim, etc. Secondly, there are names that are brought to the world out of empirical studies, observation of nature, or experience of great prophets, such as, we find the Name "OM" in the Upanishads, ‘Ahura Mazda’ in the Zend Avastha, Tao of Lao Tzu, ‘Omkar’ and ‘WaheGuru’ by the Sikh Gurus. Omkar and Waheguru are immensely evocative and highly esteemed in the Sikh scriptures.​

According to Guru Nanak, the Divine Name (NAAM), or the Word, which he also calls Sabad, is the Cause of the universe. It is the way of His expression. The phenomenal world is the attribute with which God is described. The attributes of God can be found only in an outward expression or manifestation in the external world. Besides, it is through these attributes that God manifests His creative activities in the world. Therefore everything of this world is an aspect of the Divine Name, or the Word, to which it owes its existence.​

 

[Sikh80]

Respected Begum ji.

Greetings to you and Thanks for your elaborate reply.
I shall come to the point without any prolegomenon and shall be grateful for your guidance.


WORD/SABAD


In this context it is state that the ‘word’ that you have stated should be ‘OM’ as it is supposedly the voice of the creator that was employed for creating the entire ‘Sargun’ creation.


OM and reference in Scriptures


We have a reliable reference of ‘OM’ as it appears in Geeta . Geeta is supposed to be containing the essence of the entire Vedas that were also the creation of The Lord Himself. It is also representative of the Tri Gunas.

This has been also confirmed by Gurbani as well.

The method of uttering/chanting of OM is very lucidly stated in this Holy Book that sikhs have been prohibited to follow as per Rehat-Nama. I am not sure as to what was the position when the First Rehatnama would have been prescribed by the Guru sahibs when Rehat was introduced formally.


ONG and Sikhs


The parallel word in Sikhi is stated to be ‘ONG’ .I do not have any scriptural reference.[ if any is available]. ‘ONG’ is stated to be derived from the OM . Hence the two words are not the same.


Problem and reconciliation-1.


Can there be two words like OM and ONG that were employed by the Almighty for bringing the creation into being and setting the play in motion.? As per common sense there cannot be two words. It has to be one only. OM is more ancient than ONG. It would be as per common understanding as well.

One would have to reconcile the above and a consensus should emerge as to the ‘word’ used for the purpose of the Creation. There is nothing that I can suggest as ONG is employed in Ek-Ong-kar as well. The problem can be sorted out if one believes in Vedas. The Sikh Rehat- nama as drafted by SGPC clearly prohibits the Vedas/Geeta for Sikhs.

Name of Lord and Naam


While discussing Gurbani and going through it very carefully one finds that the term Like the ‘Name of Lord’ and ‘Naam’ have been used. The translators in their own wisdom have chosen to select 'Naam' or 'Name' while carrying out the translations.

The former refers to ‘Waheguru’/Satnam/Ek-ong-kar while the latter refers to the term /’word’ like ONG.
Kindly correct me if it is wrong inference.



Problem and Reconciliation-2


2a. Waheguru

Sikhs are to mediate and remember the Almighty uttering/chanting the Name of the lord/God . One may use any name that has been used in Jaap sahib ji or ‘waheguru’ or anything that is representative of the Almighty. One may even coin a new expression for oneself that suits one. The terms ‘waheguru’ and ‘Allah-hu’ brings in some element of respective religion or have some secteran appeal. There is no direct reference or guidance in SGGS ji in this regard. I am not aware of this. I stand to be corrected if there is such a provision. However, we rely on ‘waheguru –gurumantra hey’ that is stated in Vaaran [Bhai Gurdas ji]. There is no inclusion in the SGGS ji.
However, one need not go into any controversy and can remember HIM by any name that suits.

2b. Naamdaan

There is similar term like ‘naam’ that refers to the ‘word’ as stated by you. The term for Sikhs is ‘ONG’. I would be very grateful if it is so and if that be the case then why should the Guru Saahibaan be addressing something like ‘Naamdaan’ if Naam/’word’ is already known if one takes ONG into consideration. This term has been used daily by the Sikhs all over the world.

What is the significance of Naam Daan in relation to Sikhs?

2b.1 Naam a Gift from God.

Why should it be that almost entire Granth sahib ji contains the reference to it as a gift from GOD and the precious jewel that one has to obtain from the God who will give it to the devotees as if it is something tangible. Kindly correct me. Things would be easier if there is some transparency in Sikhi literature. I can assure you, Sir, that none talks about this in this explicit manner.

If it is a gift from God then what is the significance of the term ‘ONG’ that is so beautifully embraced in Ek-Ong-Kaar.?

If above is not correct, kindly state and correct me as well.


2b.2 Contemplation on Naam and significance

It is also in Gurbani that one should contemplate the ‘Naam’. What is the meaning of this. Should one contemplate on ’ONG’? I shall quote some ‘Tuks from SGGS ji in my next post after your goodself has replied and I have a confidence that I am correct in my various assumptions.

2b.3

What will happen if we keepon remembering HIM by the name of GOD and not through the ‘word’?


Problem-3
3.a.Bani
As stated in one of your post Bani also means the same. I shall make two assumptions as follows and one question in 3b.

• Gurbani is to be stated that contains the spritual wisdom and guidance in SGGs ji.

• The ‘word’ or ‘sound of this word’ has been stated to be ‘True Bani’ or Saachi Bani’.

3.b
When we say ‘Bani nirankar Hi’ ,do we mean that ‘guru sabad’ i.e. Gurbani is Nirankar. Or the term ‘word’ like ONG is Nirankaar.

It is quite likely that I might have gone tangent to the usual meaning.I need not reiterate that I stand to be corrected and forgiven if I have caused any disrespect to anything or might have hurt someone in the process.

Problem-4
Sabad/ Shabad

At many places we have a reference of shabad in SGGS Ji. It has two meanings :

1. The 'word' as stated by you above.
2. The one , as is understood by sikhs, to mean the "Shabads' taken from SGGS ji/Sabad guru to eulogise the Creator and
Creativity.

One has to take out the contextual meaning.Am I correct.?

I think we have covered the terms like 'Name of God'/Naam/NaamDaan/Sabad/Shabad/ True Bani/Gurbani.

 

[Astroboy]

Using terms to express the Absolute is a never-ending story. There are various outer names of God; the Holy Naam, or Word, can be practised by all alike, without the agency of tongue or palate. It does not require adherence to the outward observances of social religions. This Word may be defined as the spirit-current which emanates from the One Being. It forms all the spiritual and material planes as It comes down, from plane to plane, reverberating in and out of all of them. As the lower planes are less subtle and more material than those above, the Word accordingly changes in sound as It comes down. Since It has to pass through five planes, It takes on five different sounds. These are five aspects of the one and the same Word. Guru Nanak deals with this at full length in stanza XV of the Jap Ji:-

By practice of the Word, one finally attains salvation;
By practice of the Word, one leads one's kith and kin
as well to freedom;
By practice of the Word, one saves not only himself
but when he becomes an Adept, many others whom he guides;
By practice of the Word, one freed from desires, escapes from
the wheel of transmigration.
O, great is the Power of the Word,
But few there be that know it.

Other references from Gurbani about Naam are:-

Day and night, I am in communion with the Lord, with my mind fully convinced. The temple of my body has thus been beautified. The five Sounds of the limitless Music--the Word--are resounding. O, the Lord has entered my body. --Suhi M.1

The five Sounds become audible through the instructions of the Gurmukh--the Personified Word. Great is the luck of him who hears Them. The source of Joy and Peace (Word), I see as pervading everywhere. Through the Word, the Lord made His appearance and became manifest. --Kanra M. 4

The five Sounds of the limitless Music (Word) are resounding within me. I am attracted to Them, as the Sarang or the sea-bird is attracted by the sight of water. Thy bondsman, Kabir, thus glorifies in Thee, O Lord, the Unknowable and above all human ken. --Parbhati Kabir

Word is the Guru. Soul is the disciple of the Word -- the melodious song. --Ramkali M. 1


Many other references are available from SGGS.

begum

 

[Sikh80]

Guru and God: An examination


I had the opportunity to listen to Gyani Maskeen ji today at 7.30 p.m IST wherein he discussed the relationship between Guru and God. He had quoted many ‘Tuks’ from SGGS ji. I am not aware of those and hence have missed a few. I shall quote only part of these as per that I could retain. As the subject is of contemporary interest I am trying to re-produce that I could retain.

Fact1.

There is no difference between Guru and God. Guru is God and vice versa is true and that there cannot be anything else. Both the Guru and God are ever present with us. Both have the same qualities i.e. they have transdental nature.

Aad ant Eko Avtara soi Guru Samjhio Hamara.

Fact2.
Guru is not any intermediary between the human beings and the God as is ordinarily understood. He ,himself, is the God.

Fact3.
As per Guru–Bani also the following is of relevance.

so dru qyrw kyhw so Gru kyhw ijqu bih srb smwly ](8-14, Awsw, mÚ 1)
Where is That Door of Yours, and where is That Home, in which You sit and take care of all?

The above reference shows that door and Home are two different things but these are not so as the door belongs to the house as there cannot be the house without a door. The basic objective of Guru is to bring the one to the door of the God the Almighty and the rest would be taken care of by the God himself. The duty of the Guru is to bring the human being at the entrance of the house of the God. An ordinary human being is not capable of reaching the door of the God.

Fact4


Guru is not any physical object that one has to search for. Nor can one expect to find Him in this manner. He is an energy, a creative power full of creativity that human mind cannot gauge. His creativity is unfathomable. In any case God is not a person. Some Religion states that God is in the Seventh sky, this is not correct depiction. One can only come to know about a part of creative power and can experience the Truth, the SAT.

Fact5


If one admits that he is doing only if he is commanded to do and establish the Karma with some agency, it is not easily comprehended by the ordinary human mind as the person may be in direct touch with the God and would be acting under His command. He cited the example of Socrates and Baba Nanak. The Bedi’s of his time considered baba Nanak a fool. However, such a claim can be made by a single person out of millions [exact term used was out of crores and that would mean out of tens of millions]

Fact6



As to who is Guru?


Maskeen ji had quoted some couplet of Kabeer ji that I do not remember as it was fairly lengthy and I could not note it down. However in essence Kabeer sahib had stated that His Guru was Gyan /knowledge/revealation and enlightenment.[ Maskeen ji used some couplet as well and that I do not remember]

The fact that one can understand the nature and the creative power of the Almighty leads one to realize HIM and the mission of life is fulfilled. The fact that one can establish relationship with the creativity will lead to such enlightenment. This kind of knowledge will itself serve the purpose of a Guru.


PS.
I have tried to reproduce the above as per my understanding and the knowledge of English. There may be some difference in that what he stated exactly. I have to omit few things as I could not note.
Submitted for perusal of all the Sangat.

2. Respected Begum ji:
I have gone thru the reply as posted by your goodself . I shall revert back and would request you to kindly forgive me if I overdo and please feel free if I cross my limits

 

[Astroboy]

From your comments as above, here are a few points that come to mind:-

1. Guru Nanak has said, "...pay proper heed to the sowing and not to the harvesting, for the harvest will come of its own from the seeds sown. Guru Nanak has beautifully said: "It may be all very well to worry about events contrary to the Divine Plan,
but what is destined will happen in spite of us..."

2. The practice of Naam is simple and natural. It involves no intricacies and mysterious practices and one can safely go ahead on the path with ease and comfort. What the Rishis of old achieved with much labor extending over centuries can now be gained easily with sincere devotion from day to day, without any physical penances of tortu-
ous practices.

Sleeping or awake, sitting or standing,
Kabir remains ever at his mansion within.
KABIR


3. God's Will is indescribable and the question arises - how may we become one with it? Guru Nanak replies that the best we can do is to sit in meditation at the early hour of
dawn and commune with His Holy Word. Our actions and our efforts count no doubt - it is through them that we achieve human birth - but, says Nanak, we cannot earn salvation, for it must come as the gift of His Grace. Guru Nanak, in the Jap Ji,
turns time and again to this paradox, that salvation is only possible through His Grace, yet we need effort to achieve this salvation.

4. The whole of creation came into being through the Naam and isever sustained by It.

All this world you see is the Lord's image;
The Lord's image becomes apparent.

5. Make the Naam your companion. The Lord is All-Consciousness, and the soul is consciousness also, which when connected, becomes more conscious. Instead of this happening, it became connected and enmeshed with the lower expressions of matter,
thereby getting affected by all the impure things of life in this world.
When consciousness diminishes, what happens?

6 We should receive the Bread of Life which is food for the soul. Food for the body is through eating and drinking, and food for the intellect is through reading, writing, and thinking. But, with awakenedness one learns to discriminate Truth from all untruth.

7 Naam is the Bread and Water of Life, the food for the soul - the cure for all ills, be they physical, mental, or mind ramifications. The soul is weak because we have not fed it. We only talk about the soul, but mere talking will not feed it. Can the stomach be filled by discussing various kinds of bread? If you are thirsty, will repeating the word "water" in all the world's languages quench your thirst?

8 You have to walk the path as explained by Guru Nanak in the Japji -

eet rahe pat pava-riyan, chariye hoye ekees

.

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - ANHAD SHABAD & YOGA - SIKH RELIGION
YouTube - The Inner Analysis - SIKH RELIGION

 

[Sikh80]

From your comments as above, here are a few points that come to mind:-

1. Guru Nanak has said, "...pay proper heed to the sowing and not to the harvesting, for the harvest will come of its own from the seeds sown. Guru Nanak has beautifully said: "It may be all very well to worry about events contrary to the Divine Plan, but what is destined will happen in spite of us..."

2. The practice of Naam is simple and natural.


3. God's Will is indescribable and the question arises - how may we become one with it? Guru Nanak replies that the best we can do is to sit in meditation at the early hour of
dawn and commune with His Holy Word.

4. ..........

5. Make the Naam your companion.
6
7 Naam is the Bread and Water of Life, the food for the soul -
8 You have to walk the path as explained by Guru Nanak in the Japji

eet rahe pat pava-riyan, chariye hoye ekees

==================================
Respected Sir,
I have quoted the above from your post.You have been kind as usual to explain the Naam and word. However, I have not full understanding due to lack of knowledge. Before I actually get involved in the process it would be very nice if you could amplify that you have stated above and that is put in the following words.

1. What do you mean when you say 'Practice word'. What should I be actually doing at this time.? Should I recite 'Mool Mantar' .Kindly do not explain.Just say yes or no.If it is 'no' you may kindly write a line.

2.Likewise 'what is Practice Naam'? What is the meaning of this. Should I recite and chant /meditate upon 'waheguru' or something else is to be done.

3.Make Naam your companion?What should I be doing to achieve this. Will it be keeping 'waheguru' in my thoughts or in mind for as long as possible.

I shall be grateful if the answer is in the form of 1,2 and 3.
Kindly forgive me for my bluntness.I am encouraged by your kind response to the querist and my intellect will absorb only that it is capable of. I would bother you further as and when doubt arises.



Regards
sikhi.sikhi@yahoo.co.in

.

 

[Astroboy]

I will be answering your quesries by email. But there is a point which I need to address on this forum.
The beginning is always an orientation that requires physical effort. Awaking early in the morning also means when your mind is not actively engrossed towards the world. Find that time or part of your 24 hours which is tranquil and peaceful.
Secondly, sit is a chair and be comfortable. Upright positioning is optional.
Thirdly, when one wants to fly a kite, one needs to feel the presence of the wind as well as position the kite by holding it and letting go at the right time.
After that the invisible wind will do the rest.
Similarly, a small physical effort of Mool Mantar da Jaap becomes holding the kite and waiting to release it in the presence of the inner sound current.

More later.