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What Is Faith And Dharama As Per Gurbani

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichar' started by harpreetsingh, Aug 31, 2007.

  1. harpreetsingh

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    Aug 27, 2007
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    nwnk eyk joiq duie mUrqI sbid imlwvw hoie ]4]11]44] (30-19, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    O Nanak, the One Light has two forms; through the Shabad, union is attained. ||4||11||44||
    pMnw 31
    isrIrwgu mhlw 3 ] (31-1)
    Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

    AMimRqu Coif ibiKAw loBwxy syvw krih ivfwxI ] (31-1, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    Discarding the Ambrosial Nectar, they greedily grab the poison; they serve others, instead of the Lord.
    Awpxw Drmu gvwvih bUJih nwhI Anidnu duiK ivhwxI ] (31-2, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    They lose their faith, they have no understanding; night and day, they suffer in pain.

    Many a times seemingly simple looking Tuks/lines/ of SGGS ji appear simple. I could not make out many things from the following lines. The words that specifically need clarification are as follows:

    What exactly is "sabad' as referred to above.Kindly ignore the translation.It may not be the only one .I am giving it for ready reference only. I am presuming that the Sabad used here is not the 'words of SGGS'

    What is the meaning of 'Dharam' in the lines.It cannot be sikh religion.Shall be grateful if you can spare some time and guide me thru the meaning .
    What is the meaning of 'faith' in the above.Is it faith in GOD or faith in something else.

    #1 harpreetsingh, Aug 31, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2007
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  3. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Let me take you through a journey. You are at home in Sach Khand. There is no difference between you and God as you are one. There are no concepts, no questions, no dharma, no explanations because there is no mind.

    Suddenly I AM , I have an identity, I realized that everything is limited to 4 dimensional vision. A few bright and radiant lights emerged out from a shiny lake. Those who had not dip themselves in these lakes of Mansarover had not received their full radiance. Master souls were greeting the new-comers to Mansarover. There was the Golden Temple, so huge and so magnificient that it stood out amongst all other beautiful scenery. I was not alone in this motionless motion, I was travelling further and further away from home. There was darkness for the first time. Telepathy was a language easy to learn. Communication started amongst all of us.

    This darkness was called Gupha. When I got used to the darkness, there was vision and I realized those around me visioned this dream-world differently from each other. Far away from my home, now in an alien land, getting used to it was challenging.

    I had put on a skin that communicated with all lights at the same time. There was a sound of flute which comforted us on this journey. It reminded me of home. This soothing sound acted as my mother, never letting my thoughts to wonder too widely and kept me protected under its supreme light.
    Whatever I thought, every light knew my thoughts. We were all individual lights. A thought-form reminded us that we are not small lights, each of us shine equivalent to the radiance of a thousand suns and our beauty is like a hundred moon lights at this present point. This skin was the Universal Mind. As more thought-forms were received, the skin became thicker. This was the mind forming its lower attributes and I became conscious of myself as an individual.

    Part of the thought-forms transmitted to me were "get ready for the MEST worlds, it is going to get tough and rough." A master soul guided us throughout the journey. I did not know what MEST was until it came. The journey still continued and a heavy garment got attached to me. It was the emotional body.
    When I left Gupha, which is also known as the land of a trillion suns, emotional body took most of the beating from the courser vibrations of the MEST world. Below I could see universes forming and disintergrating in accordance to the great sound current which glowed the strength of a billion suns. Some of the pounding was so strong that I felt no difference between emotions and myself. The journey was dark, at least Mansarover was bright compared to this place. It is called Tribitch. The celestial sound current pulls your attention. Sound was similar to a waterfall. This sound is a stargate, the guide told us. Many use it to travel, instantly reaching their destination.

    What is this place ? I asked my companions. They said, "realm of Matter, Energy, Space and Time - MEST. Those dim lamps are the splinters of a nebula, but they will become very bright when we wear a magnifying suit known as a physical body. But before we came to the physical world, we visited a museum of earth in this palace whose gates were made of sparkling gems and crystals. In an instance, we were educated about earth's history. The sound current here was different, sounds similar to bells ringing at a far distance. This coarser sound was something that took a while to get used to, sometimes it was annoying. Emotion was fully exhibited by everyone around.

    Our guide left us at the door of the astral region and we greeted farewell to him and each other as we knew this was the point of separation and we all wne our own ways. A great pulling force sucked me downwards and then upwards, interrupted by a jolt and it was a roller coaster ride after that; feelings burst out into so many types of emotions in six directions, each creating a different effect and then I had to slip into this magnifying suit. It jump started all by itself with the primary audiable emotion. I felt like I was in the driver's seat where everything was running on automation.

    After all these years, I have faint memories of my home. I long to go home. These are the pangs of separation from my sweet home.


    The above is a self-created fiction.

  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    aasaa naamdayv jee-o
    Raag Aasaa Naam Dayv Jee

    aaneelay kumbh bharaa-eelay oodak thaakur ka-o isnaan kara-o.
    Bringing the pitcher, I fill it with water, to bathe the Lord.

    ba-i-aalees lakh jee jal meh hotay beethal bhailaa kaa-ay kara-o. ||1||
    But 4.2 million species of beings are in the water - how can I use it for the Lord, O Siblings of Destiny? ||1||

    jatar jaa-o tat beethal bhailaa.
    Wherever I go, the Lord is there.

    mahaa anand karay sad kaylaa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    He continually plays in supreme bliss. ||1||Pause||

    aaneelay fool paro-eelay maalaa thaakur kee ha-o pooj kara-o.
    I bring flowers to weave a garland, in worshipful adoration of the Lord.

    pahilay baas la-ee hai bhavrah beethal bhailaa kaa-ay kara-o. ||2||
    But the bumble bee has already sucked out the fragrance - how can I use it for the Lord, O Siblings of Destiny? ||2||

    aaneelay dooDh reeDhaa-eelay kheeraN thaakur ka-o naivayd kara-o.
    I carry milk and cook it to make pudding, with which to feed the Lord.

    pahilay dooDh bitaari-o bachhrai beethal bhailaa kaa-ay kara-o. ||3||
    But the calf has already tasted the milk - how can I use it for the Lord, O Siblings of Destiny? ||3||

    eebhai beethal oobhai beethal beethal bin sansaar nahee.
    The Lord is here, the Lord is there; without the Lord, there is no world at all.

    thaan thanantar naamaa paranvai poor rahi-o tooN sarab mahee. ||4||2||
    Prays Naam Dayv, O Lord, You are totally permeating and pervading all places and interspaces. ||4||2||

    What does one do when the yeaning to be in the company of Shabad, the Celestial Sound Current is genuinely strong ?

    Even after checking out with the so-called 'Sants'. Sadhus and so-called "living Gurus" we realize they have misused the teachings with thier very convincing formulae and engaged in personal financial and worldly-fame hunger. All this is merely serving the ego and not God. In the initial stages, many Living Sants would "qualify" to be God-men. But it becomes too late when reality about them is exposed.

    Why is Sikhism special ?
    Because we have the Living Guru/Gurbani Shabad/Wayshower to point at the right direction of how one can link to God. A common myth that God exists beyond the physical body has been over-emphasised because SGGS Ji shows us how to appreciate God's presence in our daily lives because God is present in His creation.

    (pMnw 1349-19)
    parbhaatee kabeer jee-o.
    Parbhaatee Kabeer Jee-o

    aval alah noor upaa-i-aa kudrat kay sabh banday.
    First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.

    ayk noor tay sabh jag upji-aa ka-un bhalay ko manday. ||1||
    From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

    logaa bharam na bhoolahu bhaa-ee.
    O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.

    khaalik khalak khalak meh khaalik poor rahi-o sarab thaaN-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||1||Pause||

    maatee ayk anayk bhaaNt kar saajee saajanhaarai.
    The clay is the same, but the Fashioner has fashioned it in various ways.

    naa kachh poch maatee kay bhaaNday naa kachh poch kumbhaarai. ||2||
    There is nothing wrong with the pot of clay - there is nothing wrong with the Potter. ||2||

    sabh meh sachaa ayko so-ee tis kaa kee-aa sabh kachh ho-ee.
    The One True Lord abides in all; by His making, everything is made.

    hukam pachhaanai so ayko jaanai bandaa kahee-ai so-ee. ||3||
    Whoever realizes the Hukam of His Command, knows the One Lord. He alone is said to be the Lord's slave. ||3||

    alhu alakh na jaa-ee lakhi-aa gur gurh deenaa meethaa.
    The Lord Allah is Unseen; He cannot be seen. The Guru has blessed me with this sweet molasses.

    kahi kabeer mayree sankaa naasee sarab niranjan deethaa. ||4||3||
    Says Kabeer, my anxiety and fear have been taken away; I see the Immaculate Lord pervading everywhere. ||4||3||

    Many of those who were seekers but are just two steps ahead of you, have fallen backwards into the traps of Maya through Greed and Manipulation by using Gurbani verses to trap their innocent victims.

    More Later.
  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    "In the imperishable realm of the Formless Lord, I play the flute of the unstruck sound current."
    [​IMG]God's name was always on the lips of Bhagat Namdev Ji. He was asked by the king to show miracles. Bhagat Namdev Ji refused to do so and was thrown before a drunk elephant to be crushed to death. God saved His own saint. Bhagat Namdev Ji spent the last day of his life in village Guman, now in district Gurdaspur, Punjab (India).
    Guru Granth Sahib recognizes many saints of the Bhakti movement of medieval India. Namdev are the saints belonging to this movement which swept across the North India from 1100 A.D. till 1600 A.D. When Fifth Guru Guru Arjan dev ji compiled Guru Granth Sahib, he decided to give some recognition to the saints of Bhakti movement, that is the reason that Guru Granth Sahib contains verses of such saints. In some cases Guru Granth Sahib is the only voice remained for such saints over the years.
    According to the generally accepted version of the current traditions, Namdev was born in AD 1270 to Damasheti, a low-caste tailor, and his wife, Gonabai, in the village of Naras-Vamani, in Satara district of Maharashtra. Janabai, the family's maidservant and a bhakta and poetess in her own right, records the tradition that Namdev was born to Gonabai as a result of her worship of Vitthala in Pandharpur. Namdev was married before he was eleven years of age to Rajabal, daughter of Govinda sheti Sadavarte. He had four sons and one daughter, Under the influence of saint Jnanadeva, Namdev was converted to the path of bhakti. Vitthala of Pandharpur was now the object of his devotion and he spent much of his time in worship and kirtan, chanting mostly verses of his own composition. In the company of Jnanadeva and other saints, he roamed about the country and later came to the Punjab where he is said to have lived for more than twenty years at Ghuman, in Gurdaspur district, where a temple in the form of samadh still preserves his memory. This temple was constructed by Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia and the tank by its side was got repaired by Rani Sada Kaur , mother-in-law of Maharaja Ranjit Singh . In his early fifties, Namdev settled down at Pandharpur where he gathered around himself a group of devotees. His abhangas or devotional lyrics became very popular, and people thronged to listen to his kirtan. Namdev's songs have been collected in Namdevachi Gatha which also includes the long autobiographical poem Tirathavah. His Hindi verse and his extended visit to the Punjab carried his fame far beyond the borders of Maharashtra. Sixty-one of his hymns in fact came to be included in Sikh Scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib. These hymns or sabdas share the common characteristic of lauding the One Supreme God distinct from his earlier verse which carries traces of idolatry and saguna bhakti. In the course of his spiritual quest, Namdev had, from being a worshipper of the Divine in the concrete form, become a devotee of the attributeless ( nirguna) Absolute.
  6. OP

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    Aug 27, 2007
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    Respected friend,

    Your explanation is nice. I am an illeterate and could not corelate the above posts with the specific questions that I have requested to be answered.

    Yes, There are many things in the verse of namdev ji that you have quoted above. It is true that we are part and parcel of one and only one i.e. SAT the Saibhang.
    True that the upper crust of bread is brown but the entire bread is not so. But it is bread.Like wise that what we perceive and interpret may not be in tune with the prevailing practice or the contemporary expositions. Hence the doubt.
    Referring back to the question ' Sabad' has appeared in SGGS at many places and has its own color and shade. Sometimes it looks to mean/imply gurbani at another place it is not so. When pre fixed with 'guru' it would mean Gurbani. But when Sabad appears in stand alone manner its meaning has to be deduced. I am not very clear about the meaning of 'Sabad' that is stated in the first post of the thread. Kindly guide me.

    Like wise what is ,Dharma' .its translation would be religion or if taken to be a sanskrit word it should mean 'duty'.In the above lines and in the context of the above the meaning is not clear to me. Kindly throw some light.

    The edges of omlette when overheated or over fried will loose the golden colour.But the faith is another thing. It should imply that we should have some faith in the 'Gurmat' or the gurbani. Kindly clarify.


    Sorry my English is not good and there may be errors in the above. Kindly ignore them.
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Kindly ignore all irrelevances coz I am merely using your question as a spring-board to answer my own personal queries.
    I am not a 'qualified Giani' to be able to answer your questions. Please forgive me.
    Also what is your opinion of using pictures to remind us of sakhis ? Do they cause fixation is one's mind ? However, fixation on our Prime Mool Mantar is necessary. If I sound confusing to you, then please ignore what I've mentioned. Thanks.
  8. OP

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    Aug 27, 2007
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    One need not be a 'giani' in expressing the meaning of a particular expression the way one thinks. I need not be an Engineer to tell as to how a computer works. Yes, I should be a qualified medical practitioner if I have to prescribe some medicine to a patient. In our case none of the above is applicable. You are free to tell as to how you would interpret these wprds/phrases etc.
    Regarding Saakhis, it is to state that ,frankly speaking, I am not aware of many of them.

    Your expressions are nice and beautiful It is a pleasure to go thru. your posts .I have gone thru. your posts in other threads as well. You can help me out that I have requested for. I have just started exploring Gurbani. Hence I may have doubts of basics.
  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Gurbani talks of traiguni maya or traiguni sansaar. Trai means three

    and gun means attributes or qualities. The three gun referred to are
    rajo gun, tamo gun and sato gun. These three qualities of the materialistic
    world govern the lives of the vast majority of us who are misled by maya.
    Guru Arjan Dev says that the Lord created the world that we see, His
    sargun form, from His unseen nergun form –
    nergun tay sargun drestaarang.

    In His sargun form the Lord created the presence of
    these gun of maya.
    Bhenn bhenn traigun besthaaran(g). Nergun tay sargun drestaaran(g). P.250

    Guru Amar Das says that foolish people blindly serve these three

    gun by indulging in materialistic activities – moorakh andhay traigun sayveh. They are
    traders of maya – maya kai beuhaari.
    Moorakh andhay trai gun sayveh maya kai beuhaari. P.1246

    In the

    Anand Saheb Bani Guru Ji says that under the influence of the trai gun
    the whole world is asleep, i.e. oblivious of the Godly path –

    sansaar bharm suta.
    One’s whole life which is described as a night –

    rain – is spent in this maya moh sleep
    sutea rain vehaani. It is only with the guru’s kerpa that one wakes – jaagay –
    from this sleep.
    Tehi guni sansaar bharm suta sutea rain vehaani. Gur kerpa tay say jan
    jaagay……… P.922

    According to Guru Nanak Dev persons under the influence of the three

    gun cannot get across the bhavjal – nahi paar utaara. Their efforts are in no way fruitful –

    trehu gun antar khapeh khapaaveh.
    Trehu gun antar khapeh khapaaveh nahi paar utaara hay. P.1029

    Guru Ji says that the

    trai gun are the cause of a person falling into vekaars –
    trai gun sarb janjaal hai. As such love for naam cannot develop –
    naam na dharay pyar.
    Trai gun sarb janjaal hai naam na dharay pyar. P.1284

    Guru Amar Das says that spiritual death –

    aatmak maut – has a hold on those
    whose lives are governed by traigun – kaalai ki ser kaara. They never think of the
    Creator who is termed upaavanhaara. They face repeated births and deaths –
    mar jammeh vaaro vaara.
    Trai gun kaalai ki ser kaara. Naam na cayteh upaavanhaara. Mar jammeh fer
    vaaro vaara. P.232

    Traigun activity results in chasing after maya – traigun sabha dhaat hai. By

    being obsessed with it one can neither resort to bhagti nor can one get to love the
    Lord. Whatever one does is subject to haumai – haumai karm kmaahe. Hence there
    can be no freedom from vekaars – mukat kaday na hova-i, and there is no possibility
    of attaining high spiritual status – gat.
    Guru Ji mentions it thus:
    Traigun sabha dhaat hai na Har bhagt(i) na bhaae. Gat mukat kaday na hovai
    haumai karm kmaahe. P.1258

    According to Guru Ji it is the

    traigun / tregun maya which makes the world go
    astray – jen jagat bhulaea, and instills the fear of repeated births and deaths in its
    victims – janm marn ka sehsa.
    Ayh tregun maya jen jagat bhulaea janm marn ka sehsa. P.1257

    Bhagat Kabir says that what is referred to as

    rajo gun, tamo gun, sato gun is
    all the Lord’s maya.
    Raj gun, tam gun sat gun kahi-ai eh tayri sabh maya. P.1123

    Rajo gun leads to passion, greed, lust, arrogance and restlessness. A

    person under the influence of this attribute is fickle minded and is not steadfast in
    what he does. There is a desire to do this and that and he often wastes his energies in
    resorting to various activities. He endeavours to attain wealth, position and prestige,
    spurred on by pride and ego i.e. haumai. This attribute is the root cause of lobh, moh,
    Tamo means darkness and this attribute suffocates spiritual life because of
    ignorance. The principle of activity in rajo gun gives way to inertia in tamo gun. One
    gets corrupted by the five kaamadaks and vigilance and alertness of mind forsake the
    person. He tends to become avaracious, angry, jealous and egoistic.
    Both rajo gun and tamo gun tend to go hand in hand. Where one is found
    there is every possibility that the other too will be present and both tend to ruin one’s
    spirituality and bring aatmak maut.
    Sato gun is at a higher level than the previous two attributes. With this
    attribute governing the life of a person, he enjoys peace of mind. He tends to have pity
    and compassion on suffering creatures and people, and makes an effort to help them.
    He is forgiving and feels happy resorting to activities spurred on by this quality.
    Although at a higher level than rajo and tamo the person under the influence of sato
    gun does experience haumai but the haumai here is of a more subtle type as happens
    when a person doing something good such as doing kirtan or sayva in a temple is
    spurred on more by the praise of people or by some monetary reward than by the
    inherent love of the activity itself.
    A person who reaches the stage of sato gun can be said to have advanced
    spiritually from the earlier two stages but he is still a creature of maya. Guru Ram
    Das says that the three prominent devtas – Brahma, Veshnu, and Shev, were still
    subject to maya even though they had become demi Gods. They became victims of
    haumai and hence suffered. They failed in their rememberance of the Lord Creator –

    jen kee-ay teseh na cayteh bapray.

    Understanding of the Lord can be derived only by
    seeking the saran of the guru – Har gurmukh sojhi pa-ee. (Shev is also referred to as
    Brahma, Besan, Mahadeu, trai gun rogi vec haumai kaar kma-ee. Jen kee-ay
    teseh na cayteh bapray Har gurmukh sojhi pa-ee. P.735

    Guru Nanak Dev describes the

    trai gun thus: rajo gun as air – pavn, tamo gun
    as fire – ag/agan, and sato gun as water – bemb. The whole world is subject to these
    three gun, and Guru Ji says that the world consists of these three – agan bemb pavn ki

    bani. Here bani means creation. Guru Ji goes on to say that in spite of their powerful
    influence the trai gun are servants of naam – teen naam kay daasa, and they have no
    power over those who resort to naam semran.
    Agan bemb pavn ki bani teen naam kay daasa. P.1328

    Guru Amar Das points out that he who can eliminate the influence of the

    trai gun becomes nermal – trai gun maytay nermal hoi. His jeevatma becomes pure. His
    mind stops wandering and he acquires the sehaj state. By resorting to naam semran he
    succeeds in realizing the Lord who is described as saac Prabh.
    Trai gun maytay nermal hoi. Sehjay saac melai Prabh soi. P.232

    All our materialistic activities are carried out under the influence of these three
    gun – trebedh, and according to Guru Nanak Dev these give rise to various hopes and

    anxieties – aas andaysa hoe.
    Trebedh karm kma-ee-eh aas andaysa hoe. P.18

    Because of the powerful influence of the trai gun the mind’s desires never get

    fulfilled. Only the man, in whose mind the Lord’s naam begins to dwell, can free
    himself from the clutches of maya and its trai gun. This is attained when one seeks
    the saran of the guru and becomes a true devotee. He then acquires a deep
    understanding of the Lord and the jeevatma becomes one with the Lord, the Parm
    Atma. This stage is known as turi aavastha or turia aavastha. On the other hand, as
    Guru Ji says, those who love the trai gun experience repeated births and deaths –
    janm marai trai gun hetkaar.

    Janm marai trai gun hetkaar …… Turi aavastha satgur tay Har jaan. P.154

    Guru Ji emphasises the fact that by seeking the

    saran of the guru worldly hopes and desires – aasa mansa – can be eliminated thus enabling one to remain
    above these and becoming neraas - without any aasa mansa. When one becomes a
    gurmukh by moulding his life as per the teachings of the guru and by participating in

    sant sabha / sat sang for ot / aasra and support one acquires turi aavastha.

    Aasa mansa do-oo benaast trehu gun aas neraas bha-i. Turi aavastha
    gurmukh pa-ee-ai sant sabha ki ot lahi. P.356

    According to Guru Ji, when one attains the fourth stage of

    turia avastha -
    cauthay thaaveh leh paavai, the trai gun - rajas, taamas, sat - get merged with the
    cautha pad - kaal smaavai.

    In this fourth stage one experiences peace of mind. The mind becomes calm and cool -
    shaant seetal. Guru Ji says that the heat from the trai
    gun sun - soor, gets lost in the cool shaant conditions of the turia moon -
    sasiar kai ghar soor smaavai.
    Caudas cauthay thaaveh leh paavai. Raajas taamas sat kaal smaavai. Sasiar
    kai ghar soor smaavai. P.840

    Guru Amar Das says that the shackles of

    trai gun maya – trebedh bandhan -
    can be broken only with the help of the

    gur sabad – tooteh gur sabdi, by considering
    the sabad and moulding one’s life according to its teaching. Then only the Lord

    blesses the devotee with freedom from the bonds of maya whereby he now
    becomes mukat.

    Trebedh bandhan tooteh gur sabdi gur sabdi mukat kraavnea. P127

    Guru Ji goes on to say that

    turia gun is acquired by participation in saadh
    sangat – turia gun sat sangat pa-ee-ai. He who acquires this gun is then helped by the
    Lord, who blesses him with His mehar di nadar to get across the world ocean – nadri
    paar utari.
    Turia gun sat sangat pa-ee-ai nadri paar utari. P.1260

    Guru Arjan Dev points out that the three

    gun keep on influencing everyone in the world – teen beapeh jagat kau. Rare is the person
    who acquires the turia stage.
    Guru Ji goes on to say that under the influence of the trai gun one acquires the fruits
    of veshay vekaar thus resulting in sinking in the vekaars at times and becoming

    neec, and sometimes rising above them and becoming uttam. In this way they suffer

    heaven and hell – surag nark – which means experiencing sukh dukh. Their minds
    wander a lot – bharmtau ghano, and fear of death – meec -always bothers them –
    sada sanghaarai meec.
    Teen beapeh jagat kau turia paavai koe. …Tretia trai gun bekhai fal kab
    utttam kab neec. Nark surag bharmtau ghano sada sanghaarai meec. P.297

    Guru Ji says that we should regard what the Lord does -

    jo kech karai - as
    something good - bhala kar maanau. By following this rule the mind attains sehaj.
    Jo kech karai soi bhal maanau ta(n) man sehaj smaana. P.782

    Man comes to this world as a trader –

    vanjaara – for the purpose of trading
    and accumulating the naam of the Lord. Guru Ji says that those who have loads of this
    everlasting naam commodity - sac vakhar jen ladea – are the true traders described
    as sacray pasaar. But such vanjaaras / pasaari are very few. The large majority are
    the ones who are influenced by traigun maya, here referred to as tehatray bajaar – the
    bajaar of the three hatt i.e. trai gun

    Tehatray bajaar sauda karn vanjaarea. Sac vakhar jeni ladea say sacray
    pasaar. P.1425

    The turi avastha is also known as cautha pad, i.e. the fourth stage. Guru Ji in

    Sukhmani bani says that he who resorts to naam semran as a result of the guru’s kerpa

    attains the fourth stage with its sublime spiritual status –

    cauthay pad meh gat paa-ay.
    Kar kerpa jes aapnai naam laa-ay. Nanak cauthay pad meh so jan gat paa-ay.

    Guru Nanak Dev says, “Oh Lord

    raj tam sat all are the result - chaea - of your power – kal. Going through various lives
    and deaths is something which you created. So too is the dukh of haumai which you have
    given to beings. Oh Lord, when you shower your mehar on someone that person seeks the
    saran of the guru and he reaches the fourth stage where he becomes mukat, free from
    attachment to maya.
  10. OP

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    Aug 27, 2007
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    Respected friend,
    Very many thanks for providing the guidance and giving here much more than that was requested for. I shall take my time to digest the information.
    In the meantime thanks once again.
  11. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    I should thank you for giving me the opportunity to straighten my own queries left unanswered at the back of my mind. You motivated me. Thanks.
  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
    Likes Received:
    I should thank you for giving me the opportunity to straighten my own queries left unanswered at the back of my mind. You motivated me. Thanks.
    I will post the final part of this article later.
  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Raj tam sat kal tayri chaea. Janm marn haumai dukh paea. Jes no kerpa karay
    Har gurmukh gun cauthai mukat krae(n)da. ​

    Guru Amar Das says something similar when he mentions that ​
    trai gun is

    maya moh - ​
    attachment to maya, and it is the gurmukh who attains cautha pad.
    Traigun maya moh hai gurmukh cautha pad pae.

    qRY gux mwieAw mohu hY gurmuiK cauQw pdu pwie Ò​
    According to Guru Ji a ​
    gurmukh recognizes this fourth stage – cautha pad
    This stage is beyond the influence of trai gun and the gurmukh resorts to

    naam semran ​
    and enjoys sukh – sukh hoi.
    Gurmukh hovai cautha pad ceenai Ram naam sukh hoi.

    gurmuiK hovY cauQw pdu cInY rwm nwim suK hoeI Ò​
    Naam semran ​
    and bhagti are synonymous with one another and the influence
    traigun can be eliminated only by bhagti. It seems strange or unusual how bhagti

    can enable one to proceed to the ​
    cautha pad stage. Bhagti exerts a tremendous pull
    on the mind of the devotee towards spiritual perfection. According to Guru Nanak
    Dev the destruction of the influence of
    trai gun – trai gun maytay, and the
    attainment of the fourth stage is the result of
    bhagti. Guru Ji describes this as nerari

    Traigun maytay cauthai vartai ayha bhagt(i) ​
    nerari. P.908

    The nine openings of the body, i.e. nasal passages, eyes, ears, mouth and
    excretory organs,referred to as ​
    chedar in chapter 15 are also described as duar /
    meaning entrances. Nine duar are visible. The mind is referred to as

    dasva(n) duar. ​
    This duar is not visible and is deemed locked because of the mind’s
    preoccupation with
    trai gun maya. But it can be opened with the aid of Gurbani.

    When ​
    Gurbani is used as a key to open this duar - dasvai(n) duar kunji jab deejai -

    then only can one meet the ​
    dyal Prabhu - tau dyal ko darsan keejai. When the mind
    becomes preoccupied with
    Gurbani the dasva(n) duar opens up. Maya moh now fails
    to lock out any spiritual pursuits. One gets emancipated from the
    vekaar tendencies
    of the nine
    duar. Bhagat Kabir mentions it thus.

    Dasvai(n) duar kunji jab deejai tau dyal ko darsan keejai. ​

    Guru Amar Das states that when the nine openings are shut out to the
    influences of ​
    maya - nau dar thaakay, and the wandering mind gets controlled -

    dhaavat rahaa-ay, ​
    one settles down in the real home - nej ghar vaasa paa-ay, at the
    feet of the Lord. This is the
    dasva(n) dar.
    Nau dar thaakay dhaavat rahaa-ay. Dasvai(n) nej ghar vaasa paa-ay.

    When the fourth stage is attained the ​
    dasva(n) duar opens and the devotee
    enjoys spiritual bliss. The mind does not wander at all. It is as though the pendulum of
    a clock becomes still. This is what is called
    sehaj. Bhagat Ravedas talks about what is
    experienced at this stage. It is as though one resides in a place –
    thau –where there is
    no worry –
    andoh. There is no dukh at all and sukh prevails everywhere. There are no
    frustrations –
    tasvees, no desire to own property – maal, and no tax –kheraaj – to
    pay. There is no fear –
    khauf – of any sin – khata, and there is no fear of losing
    anything –
    na tars jwaal. This peaceful reign – paatsahi – is for ever – kaem daem.

    All are equal and there is no dom saym – second or third class. All are rich – gani, and
    contented – ​
    maamoor. Bhagat Ji describes this as baygam pura – a town where there
    is no
    gam – worry.

    Baygampura sehar ko nau. Dookh andoh nahi teh thau. Na tasvees kheraaj na
    maal. Khauf na khata na tars jwaal…………… Kaem daem sada paatsahi. Dom na

    Bhagat Kabir says that in this stage of mind there is neither any desire to live
    nor is there fear of death. There are no feelings of ​
    dukh sukh – na dukh sukh beapai.

    There is absolute stillness – ​
    sunn smaadh, with thoughts focussed on the Lord only.
    There are no thoughts of mine thine –
    do-oo teh nahi. This exalted state of mind is
    unique –
    nerari – in that no comparison is possible and it is beyond description –

    akath katha.
    Jeevan merat na dukh sukh beapai sunn smaadh do-oo teh nahi. Sehaj ki akath
    katha hai nerari. ​

    Guru Amar Das refers to ​
    dasva(n) duar as dasva(n) akaas, akaas meaning
    sky. According to Guru Ji a
    gurmukh experiences sehaj and his mind is always in the

    dasva(n) duar ​
    stage.He is not influenced by maya moh and does not fall into maya
    sleep – oongh. Hunger – bhukh – for maya does not bother him. He experiences
    spiritual bliss –
    sukh vaas – because of the presence of the spiritual life giving amret
    in the mind. Dukh sukh does not affect him owing to the spiritual enlightenment
    in his
    aatma – aatam Ram pargaas.
    Gurmukh antar sehaj hai man carea dasvai(n) akaas. Tethai oongh na bhukh
    hai Har amret naam sukh vaas. Nanak dukh sukh veapat nahi jethai aatam Ram

    This ​
    sehaj state can only be attained by those on whom the Lord showers His
    grace –
    mehar. He, who is thus blessed, retains the guru’s teachings via the sabad in
    his heart -
    gur ka sabad red antar dhaarai. He parts company with the kaamadaks –
    panc jana seu(n) sang nevarai,
    and keeps his ten endrays under control – das endri
    kar raakhai vaas.
    In this way enlightenment develops in his aatma. Guru Arjan Dev

    Gur ka sabad red antar dhaarai. Panc jana seu(n) sang nevarai. Das endri
    kar raakhai vaas. Ta(n) kai aatmai hoe pargaas. ​

    Guru Ji mentions that the person who has attained the ​
    sehaj state and sings the
    praises of the Lord in the company of
    saadh sang feels as though loud music from
    five different types of musical instruments –
    panc sabad – is continuously going on
    within him. Such
    gurmukhs enjoy bliss – sookh anand, and they attain the sehaj state.
    They remain free of ailments and anxieties –
    rog sog, and do not suffer transmigration

    nahi janm marn
    Panc sabad teh pooran naad. Anhad baajay acraj besmaad ………Sookh sehaj
    anand bhavn. Saadh sang bais gun gaaveh teh rog sog nahi janm marn. ​

    This music, referred to in the foregoing quote, is not played by anyone and as
    it goes on continuously it is described as ​
    anhad dhuni. It produces a surprisingly
    strange state of mind –
    acraj besmaad. The gurmukh who hears this sound – naad –

    hears it as ​
    pooran naad i.e. loud and clear. Guru Nanak Dev in Japji, hymn No.29,
    mentions that this
    naad is present in all bodies – ghat ghat vaajeh naad.

    This ​
    naad can be regarded as divine music or eternal song which cannot be
    heard by
    manmukhs because of haumai. But those who have attained the cautha pad

    can hear it clearly. Guru Arjan Dev in the following quote says that His mind has
    been won over by this ​
    anhad dhuni which has extraordinary tastes - acaraj / acraj
    Anhad dhuni mayra man moheo acaraj ta(n) kay swaad.

    Guru Amar Das describes the ​
    sehaj state of mind as something which is
    desired by all –
    sehjai no sabh locdi, but it cannot be attained without the guru - ben
    gur paea na jae.
    Sehjai no sabh locdi ben gur paea na jae.

    In the same ​
    sabad Guru Ji goes on to say that only by attending
    wholeheartedly to the
    sabad, sehaj is realized – sabday hi tay sehaj oopjai, and the
    ever lasting Lord is attained –
    Har paea sac soe. It is in this sehaj state that one
    acquires peace of mind and spiritual happiness –
    sukh saant hoe. The tongue – rasna
    savours the taste of naam – Har ras khae. Without sehaj life is worthless – jeevan
    Sabdai hi tay sehaj oopjai Har paea sac soe ……… sehjai hi tay sukh saant
    hoe, ben sehjai jeevan baad………Sabday hi Har man vasai rasna Har ras khae.

    Continuing the discussion of ​
    sehaj Guru Ji adds that by seeking the saran of
    Sac Lord and with the attainment of sehaj, fear of death is destroyed – kaal
    Sehjay kaal vedarea sac sarna-ee pae.

    Guru ji goes on to point out that ​
    sehaj cannot come about by getting engrossed
    with activities pertaining to
    traigun maya – trehu guna vec sehaj na pa-ee-ai. One
    goes astray –
    bharm bhulae – with no end to repeated births and deaths.

    Trehu guna vec sehaj na pa-ee-ai trai gun bharm bhulae. ​

    iqRhu guxw ivic shju n pweIAY qRY gux Brim Bulwie Ò​
    Guru Ji further mentions that without ​
    sehaj there is darkness – gubaar –

    caused by attachment to ​
    maya and everyone acts blindly – sabh andh hai.
    Ben sehjai sabh andh hai maya moh gubaar.

    ibnu shjY sBu AMDu hY mwieAw mohu gubwru Ò​
    In another part of ​
    Gurbani Guru Ji says that the minds of those people who
    constantly dwell on the
    naam – naam ratay, become beautiful – ranglay. They attain
    sehaj state of mind because of the Lord’s bhagti. The bhagti colour is fast and

    never fades –
    rang na utrai.
    Nanak naam ratay say ranglay gur kai sehaj subhae. Bhagti rang na utrai
    sehjay rahai smae. ​

    According to Guru Ji ​
    sehaj avastha and love for the Lord bring about a shower
    of the
    amret naam jal within an individual.

    Amret varsai sehaj subhae. ​

    In this connection it is worth noting Guru Nanak Dev’s remarks that the noble​
    naam ​
    essence – Har naam rasaen - is attained as a result of acquiring sehaj avastha,

    i.e. ​
    sehaj aath.
    Har naam rasaen sehaj aath.

    On attainment of the ​
    sehaj stage the mind settles in the nej ghar – the real
    home. The mind turns its attention inwards and discovers the abode of the Lord within
    oneself. At this stage the mind does not wander , it enjoys spiritual bliss, and there is
    no more
    fayra – transmigration. Guru Arjan Dev says:

    Nej ghar mehal paavuh sukh sehjay bahur na hoego fayra. ​

    inj Gir mhlu pwvhu suK shjy bhuir n hoiego Pyrw Ò​
    Guru Nanak Dev’s ​
    sac khand stage described in the 37th hymn of Jap Ji is the
    same as the
    cautha pad, sehaj avastha, nej ghar and baygampura.

    Guru Nanak Dev in ​
    Sedh Ghost Bani says that it is extremely difficult to
    escape the influences of
    trai gun maya. Eliminating their grip on us is like chewing
    iron –
    saar. But by acquiring the saran of the Guru and by following His teachings
    implicitly, one can with the resultant illumination in the heart from the Lord’s light –

    jot, ​
    succeed in this seemingly impossible task. The jot is nerantar - without a break /
    gap. It exists everywhere without any gap or break.

    Gurmukh jot nerantar pa-ee. Trai gun maytay kha-ee-ai saar. ​

    Talking about overcoming the effects of ​
    maya Guru Arjan Dev says that the
    person who is blessed by the Lord with spiritual strength –
    bal – withstands the
    onslaughts of
    maya and its kaamadak warriors. As a result of the Lord's kerpa the
    spiritual strength that has been bestowed by the Lord can now be maintained and
    sustained whatever the temptations. That which earlier could not be tolerated and
    sustained -
    ajar - now becomes jar / jarai. The Lord through His kerpa enables one to
    bear it -
    jaraa-ay aap. Such a person is regarded as highly srayshat – noble. He is

    poora pardhaan ​
    and earns respect.

    So poora pardhaan jes no bal dharai. Jeseh jaraa-ay aap soi ajar jarai. ​

    Attacks of ​
    maya in the form of vekaars and various temptations are difficult
    to resist because of a weak spiritual situation. He who succumbs to them suffers

    aatmak maut. ​
    But the Lord’s kerpa and the guru’s saran changes this situation. The
    mind becomes strong enough to resist these attacks and succeeds in keeping the nine

    endrays – nau kul – ​
    in control, and prevents them from falling into vekaars. What was

    ajar ​
    earlier now becomes jar / jarai i.e. the weak spiritual situation which could not
    vekaars earlier now acquires strength to prevent the mind from succumbing to
    their temptations.

    Ajar jarai ta(n) nau kul bandh. ​

    The word ​
    jar also means old age and the Lord is referred to as ajar because
    He is not affected by old age. In the following quote by Guru Arjan Dev the word

    jarai / jarn ​
    means to retain in the heart. The person on whom the Lord Beethal

    showers His blessings succeeds in ​
    Har Har ajar jarn – succeeds in retaining in his
    heart the
    ajar Lord’s naam.
    Ja(n) kau bha-eo kerpaal beethla ten Har Har ajar jarn.

    Guru Nanak Dev suggests that one should perform ​
    ardaas requesting the Lord

    Jag Jeevan ​
    to shower His mehar / kerpa on the individual – nadar karuh. This would
    enable the devotee to get across the world ocean –
    Nanak sehaj melay Jag Jeevan nadar karuh nestaara.


    The End of Instruction is the Beginning of Practice.

  14. OP

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    Aug 27, 2007
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    Respected Friend,

    Your appreciation Of SGGS and scripture is vast and you can take an overall macro view of the Granth Sahib. But we are at micro level i.e. understanding the meaning of each line at a time and then proceeding ahead. You must have started appreciating Gurbani for quite some time. I have taken up the study only recently and hence some lines appear confusing to me. The area of conflict and confusion is always in relation to namm ,shabad or akhar.

    After going thru. some posts it appears that these are synonyms. But on referring back to the SGGS ji things sometime are not clear. I shall quote various posts of this site to support that I have stated above. It would be very kind of you if you could continue to guide me/us thru. this thread so far as naam/shabad/word of shabad/akhar is concerned.

    The following line is from japji sahib:

    AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ] (4-7, jpu, mÚ 1)
    From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.

    Doubt No.1

    1.What should we imply from the above line.?
    and Is Naam not the Name of the almighty?
    Doubt No.2
    Can we not take 'waheguru' as a universal indica of 'naam' and do its jaap or simran.

    The following line makes it look that naam is bestowed upon as as a blessing by the Guru.
    Doubt No.3
    Who is Guru in the context of the current discussion? Is SGGS ji or the Almighty ?

    iniq Aihinis hir pRBu syivAw sqguir dIAw nwmu ]2] (21-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Day and night, continually serve the Lord God; the True Guru has given the Naam. ||2||

    Would be garteful if things are explained in terms of teaching a person who is beginning to learn the Bani.

    I shall keep on posting my doubts as and when I have.

    Regards to all.

  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Jul 14, 2007
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    Stanza XIX

    Countless Thy names and countless Thy places;
    Unapproachable and inaccessible Thy innumerable
    heavenly plateaux;
    Even by the word countless,(1) we fail to describe Thee;
    By words we describe Thee and by words we praise Thee.
    By words, we acquire Divine knowledge, and in words are sung
    Thy hymns and attributes;
    It is words we employ in speech and in writing;
    In them is our fate ordained;
    But He who ordains is above such writ.
    As Thou ordaineth, so do we receive.
    Thou art immanent in all;
    And nothing is where Thy Word is not.
    What power have I to conceive of Thy wonderful nature?
    Too poor, am I, to make an offering of my life to Thee.
    Whatever pleaseth Thee is good;
    Thou art forevermore; O Formless One !

    (1). The words count and countless are of little consequence for the Almighty. He who is immanent in everything and is the very life of the creation itself, knows every particle thereof.
    iniq Aihinis hir pRBu syivAw sqguir dIAw nwmu ]2] (21-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    What is this tuk, kindly provide Romanised version. My server does not pick up Gurmukhi.
  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Jul 14, 2007
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    Communion with the Word--the Eternal Music--is possible with a life of Simran, or the constant remembrance of the Lord. It does not mean mere mechanical muttering, which is discarded by the Master. Kabir affirmed:

    • While the rosary moves in the hand and the. tongue wags in the mouth,
      the mind is concentrated on external effects. This is no Simran.

    • Once the rosary quarrelled with me, saying: Why, O man, dost thou
      moveth me round and round? Just turn the bead of thy mind
      and I will introduce thee to the all-pervading God.

    Thou shalt not take the name of God in vain, but take it with some purpose in view. The constant remembrance of the Lord is but another form of love. Whom you love dearly--you think of always. This constant thought of the Lord is what the Master exhorts all to do, for as you think so you become.

    Simran is the remembrance of the Lord done mentally (with the tongue of thought), with the heart filled with devoted love, concentrating on a particular center in the body. It is an act of centering the self and occupying the mind with the constant idea of the Lord, casting out all ideas of the objective world. The constant dwelling on our environments, has so taken hold of the mind that we cannot even for a single moment drive away the thoughts of external objects. From infancy onwards, this practice has been going on in full swing, and it has now grown into a regular habit of our lives.

    Habit is said to be the second nature of man. It is at this stage rather difficult to extricate the mind from external objects. The more you try to do so, the more it becomes restive and the more it runs out into the mundane affairs of life. It has formed a strong alliance with all that is external. It is always thinking of what is foreign and exotic and is carried away by the glamour and fascination of the world. Whatever habit we have formed, we can unmake it as well. The thoughts of the world and of all that is worldly is the source of bondage to outside things.

    The Master too uses the same means inwardly as does Mother Nature to bind us to the external world, and makes the mind purely one-pointed. The constant thought of the Lord, by mentally dwelling on the Holy Naam, brings the mind back from the world and holds it to one place. At the outset it is difficult to concentrate as it takes time to bring the mind under control. But there is nothing to be disheartened about. Failures are stepping stones to success. Where there is a will, there is a way. We must stick to the process until the mind is channeled. The glory of Naam always reminds one of the highest ideal of human life. It soothes the mind and prevents it from going astray. The constant remembrance of Naam withdraws the mind from the outer objects and concentrates it on the Divine and the supernatural. It makes the mind self-centred so that desires fail to draw it out and the siren songs of the world lose all their magic attraction. This part of the practice is technically termed by Guru Nanak as Simran. Unless the soul current is withdrawn completely at one focus, further ascent of the soul is not possible. This process of withdrawal from the body is the one thing that is absolutely necessary in spiritual advancement, It is achieved through the simple preliminary method of Simran.

    In Simran lie the seeds that help in the development of the soul. Nanak reveals this secret in the concluding portions of stanzas V, VI and XXIII, and at full length in stanza XXXIII of the Jap Ji. Fortunate indeed is the man who always revels in the blessings of Guru Nanak.
  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Jul 14, 2007
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    The Spiritual Practice of Naam

    Truth never gets old nor rusty

    It is so natural and so easy that one can take to it as a
    matter of routine. It involves no intricacies and mysterious
    practices and one can safely go ahead on the path with
    ease and comfort. It is a Grand Trunk Road to God. One
    may with a little labor gather a rich harvest. What the
    Rishis of old achieved with much labor extending over
    centuries can now be gained easily with sincere devotion
    from day to day, without any physical penances of tortu-
    ous practices.

    To start with one has to take care to devote time regu-
    larly at fixed hours in some solitary place. But as soon as
    inner experience becomes a regular feature with the aspir-
    ant, then all restrictions as to time and place drop off and
    one can hear the Divine Symphony all day long, even in
    the midst of most strenuous work, without any effort on
    his part.

    Sleeping or awake, sitting or standing, Kabir remains
    ever at his post within.
  18. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Jul 14, 2007
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    God's Will is indescribable and the question arises - how
    may we become one with it? Guru Nanak replies that the
    best we can do is to sit in meditation at the early hour of
    dawn and commune with His Holy Word. Our actions and
    our efforts count no doubt - it is through them that we achieve
    human birth - but, says Nanak, we cannot earn salvation, for
    it must come as the gift of His Grace. Guru Nanak, in the
    Jap Ji, turns time and again to this paradox, that salvation
    is only possible through His Grace, yet we need effort to
    achieve this salvation.

    This quote is the commentary just before Stanza IV of the
    Jap Ji,

    Stanza VI

    • If I may only please Him, 'tis pilgrimage enough;
      If not, nothing-no rites or toils-avails;
      Whichever way I look, I find that in His creation,
      None has won salvation without His Grace-regardless of Karmas.(1)
      You can discover untold Spiritual riches within yourself;
      If you but abide by the teachings of your Master.(2)
      My Master has taught me one lesson:
      He is the Lord of everything, may I never forget Him.
    1. Karma: Action. This term in Indian thought refers to a very complex Hindu doctrine. It emphasizes belief that our present actions determine our future, not only in this life but in the life to come. There is nothing like chance. Man works according to a chain of cause and effect. Though spiritual salvation is not possible without Grace, yet, says Nanak, we must deserve that Grace by our Karmas or actions in this life or the lives preceding.
    2. Guru: This term makes its appearance frequently in the Jap Ji and indeed is freely used in all the Sikh scriptures. It stands for Bani (Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani...) and whenever Nanak uses it, He does not mean any person who sets up as a spiritual guide, but the Inner Sound Current or Anhad Naad which is the essence of God.
  19. OP

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    Aug 27, 2007
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    Dear begum ji I am giving below the ‘Tuk’ as requested by you in all possible mamer. I hope you can make out from this the Gurmukhi Line/tuk.

    iniq Aihinis hir pRBu syivAw sqguir dIAw nwmu ]2] (21-11, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    nit ahinis har parabh sayvi-aa satgur dee-aa naam. ||2||
    Day and night, continually serve the Lord God; the True Guru has given the Naam. |2||

    Translataion and commentary By Sahib Singh ji. In Gurmukhi.
    [ as per my browser there is no option even in 'edit' mode to convert the following back to Gurmukhi. Inconvenience regretted.Mr. Aman Singh ji may like to do the needful or the moderator may help to convert the following into Gurmukhi.]
    hy mn! prmwqmw dw nwm idn rwq jipAw kr [ gurU dI srn pY ky hrI-nwm Dn dI kdr smJ [ swD sMgiq ivc iml ky hrI nwm nwl sWJ pw, swry Awqmk Awnµd pRwpq ho jwxgy [ (pr ijs nUµ) siqgurU ny nwm dI dwiq b^SI, aus ny sdw idn rwq hrI pRBU dw ismrn kIqw hY [2[

    Approximate English Translation of above done by me

    For your benefit I have translated the above as follows.There may be some minor differences but substance is the same.
    One should Remember[ Jap] HIS Naam day and night. [Understand the significance of the Naam by being at the feet of the The Guru. Be in the company of the Holy sangat and understand the naam and your will be be in bliss.] But to whomThe True guru has bestowed the gift of Naam he has always remembered[ simran] the Lord [ Hari Prabhu]

    My comments on Translation and commentary

    The above is not a verabtim translation. Sh Sahib singh ji has added may things in this . The underlined portion in the above are the comments of Sh Sahib singh ji. It may be or may not be the only interpretation.
    The question being asked by meThe question that is being posed to the sangat is that the above translation does not appear to be correct or in line with my way of thinking.

    The simple translation as is given in the Granth Sahib ji [as above] is correct and is i.e given above and quoted once again.
    Day and night, continually serve the Lord God; the True Guru has given the Naam. |2||
    Unresolved Question:
    Who would bless us with the Gift of Naam.?
    I would ,rightly ,presume that for us guru and satguro is Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. As nothing else can be. We dont have living persons as Guru.

    It can be ‘Bani’ as well as ‘Bani’ is ‘Nirankaar’.
    In any case SGGS ji is ‘Sabad Guru’ and hence it is Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji that would do the same. Is it so?

    If yes, then what is Naam as per the SGGS ji?
    Is it

    A]Mool Mantra or
    B]Guru Mantra or
    C] BeejMantra or
    D]Something else .

    For the time being I would presume that the only option left with me is now to presume that this Naam would be the same as is given by the Panj Pearey at the time of Baptisation.
    simply Waheguru/Ram/Rahim/ Shiva/ Allah or satnam/or even anything that is reflective of God to me. it need not be any thing fixed as nothing has been prescribed.

    May kindly opine.
    #18 harpreetsingh, Sep 8, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2007
  20. OP

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    Aug 27, 2007
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    I am not able to edit this. I am leaving the post as it is.
    inconvenience regretted.
  21. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Coming directly to the point:
    What is Naam and Shabd ?

    Yogi Bhajan's quotes:-

    The patterns of the Shabd Guru combine atoms of information in the smallest sound units to release the inner energy of awareness needed to guide the brain and mind through this wave of change.

    We need to develop a new habit of awareness. We must learn an inner technology to base the identity of our Self in the Infinite.

    Where do the patterns of the Shabd Guru come from? They exist from the beginning of creation. They are the tides and rhythms of the movement of the creative pulse of Infinite consciousness. They vibrate in all things continually.

    These sounds and shabds are perfect to share with everyone openly without special precautions or restrictions. One student asked if he had to be initiated. He had received a mantra from some group as part of meditation training. I said no. These sounds are universal and based on the full use of your brain's potential. It is already yours. It is in your cells. The person who uses them and has the experience is the person who it belongs to. It is not about any religion or group. It is the science of sound for personal experience and development. This is very important. Repeating the Primal sounds captured in the Shabd Guru is really about listening. It is listening with wide open ears and full attention. It is really whole brain listening. It is not concentrating with a singular but robotic focus on the sounds.

    The trick is that the DNA has captured a compact code of basic units that holds the information of a pulse of the creativity of life. Exactly so the Sri Guru Granth Sahib has captured a compact quantum code of sound, structured in rhythm, that holds the information of the pulse of the creativity of Consciousness and God.

    Quotes from Gurbani :

    (1) O Nanak! through the favor of the Guru, we were saved and the ego was consumed in communion with the Shabd (Word). --Wadhans War M.3

    (2) In egoism, the peoples of the world are being consumed--they go round the endless cycle of births and deaths. The ignorant (those attached to the cringing nature of the mind), do not realize the Shabd. They will go to the other world as dishonoured. --Siri Rag M.3

    (3) The whole world is going astray in the egoistic assertion of I-ness. Without the Shabd (Word), there can be no release from the ego. O Nanak, by communion with the Naam, the ego is effaced and oneness with the True Lord is achieved. --Asa M.3

    (4) In misery and pleasure, the whole world is stuck fast. All their doings are directed by assertion of egotism. Without the Shabd (Word), superstition cannot be ended, and the ego cannot be lost. --Siri Rag M.3

    (5) All desires and attachments get singed by the Shabd. A Gurmukh finds the Heavenly Light within. --Ramkali M.1

    True renunciation within comes through communion with Shabd alone. Nature with all her evanescent charms ceases to have attraction for the renouncer. By renouncing everything, one penetrates into the all-pervading spirit. His attachment to the environments is done away with and his bondage to matter is ended. Thus, no more births and deaths await him. Here-after the life of the senses and the glamour of the world fascinates him not, on his way to the Lord.

    The Master says:
    By saturation with the true Shabd (Word), man truly renounces the ' World' and his coming and going is ended. --Maru M.3

    Click here > Main Andhle Ki Tek

    Translation : mai anDhulay kee tayk tayraa naam khundkaaraa

    My personal opinion ?

    Naam and Shabad are synonyms. Anhad Naad is heard from within yourself. One sure way to hear this anhad naad is : to do Parkash and Smapti of SGGS for as long as you can. When you place SGGS on your head, while performing this 'ritual', you will hear the inner sound current loud and clear. All you have to do is pay attention when Guru Ji (some call it paper guru) is resting on your head.

    After you have removed SGGS from your head, the sound becomes fainter but it remains there. It never went away, not yesterday, and never will.
    Our ego is so strong that we never realised its omni-presence, omni-potence and omni-science. It is the link with our Creator.

    Thousand Apologies, that I couldn't answer your questions. I am not a giani and your questions are getting tougher on every new post.
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