What Gurus Really Taught - A Different Perspective

[prakash.s.bagga]

pl consider the following Quote from SGGS Ji

"SIKHI SIKHIAA GUR VICHARi NADARI KARMi LANGHAYE PAARi ...pp465

SIKHI thought as envisaged in terms of Icevream is fully appreciable when we think on above.. Quote from Gurbaani.
GUR VICHARi as Icecream is really very cool and meets all requirement as mentioned by our revered MAI HARINDER KAUR Ji .Thaks for such a practical ANALOGY.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Astroboy]

There is a quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

"JO DISAE GURSIKHADA TISu NIV NIV LAGAu PAAE JIO"

Can someone write the actual meaning of above?
Prakash s Bagga

Prakash Ji,

It is important for you to explain your stand on any particular tuk by yourself and allow us to scrutinize your understanding. If you're here to learn, then this is the way you could start. I believe learning is an on-going process.

~namjap~

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

NAAMJAP Ji.Pl Accept Divine Greetings
As a matter of fact there are no secret cards to opened.I have just coneyed the significance of Grammer in Gurbaani understanding.Grammer is an open subject.If you find anything wrong with the concept of grammer already presented then pl let me know I can clarify further.
Regarding my saying that there is nothing beyoun the word GUROO I may clarify this .You must have noticed that Base of Gurbaani is the word GUROO.We all try to interprate Gurbaani with reference to Guru s in person. Gurbaani is telling us that There is SHABADu{SINGLE WORD} reffered as GUROO.The source of the whole Gurbaani is this SHABADuGUROO.We never try to interprate Gurbaani with reference to SHABADu as GUROO.
Pl conside the Quote from SGGS Ji
"SACHu POORae GURi UPDESIAA
NANAKu SUNAAWae" BASANT KI VAR M.5

From above it is sufficiently clear even GURU NANAK Ji is not making any claim for Gurbaani.
In view of above we should analyse as to what is the Significance of SHABADuGUROO
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

MANES-PALAM
Pl Accept Divine Greetings,
Having gone thru your message I appreciate your views very much.What I feel is that NAMELESS is the reference of the state of the CREATOR in its NON -ACTIVE condition also known as SUNUUM STATE where nothing exist.
But Gurbaani is the Divine messages of the CREATOR in its active STATE.These messages are in terms of praise of ACTIVE STATE of the creator in terms of DIVINE WORDS....This we come to know from JAP ji as .AKHARI NAAMU AKHARI SALAHA,AKHARI GIYANU GEET GUN GAAH
With Regards
Prakash .S.Bagga

 

[Astroboy]

You must have noticed that Base of Gurbaani is the word GUROO.We all try to interprate Gurbaani with reference to Guru s in person.

That assumption might not entirely be correct because the Mentors and Forum Leaders including regular members already know that the physical body isn't the guru. The Shabad is.

I would like to know what is your understanding of "Shabad".

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

All respectable viewrs and readers
I think i am being misunderstood in my writings.I am not here to claim any supremacy in the knowledge of Gurbaani.I could make certain observations which I thought couldbe of some use if these observations are shared in a positive way.
In a nut shell I am presenting my perception as to how to get the intrisic understanding of Gurbaani words.We are here to deliberate on the Divine words of the GUROO.Deliberation is only a small part of understanding.

If we dont wish or like deliberation then we must discontinue this thread.I was quite aware at the start itself about the sensitivity of the subject.We all human beings come from unknown source to complete the journey.We all have our own different thought process and it is SATIGURU only to impart the knowledge of NAAMu.

I wish , May SATiGURU bless every one with knowledge of GURMATiRAMNAAMu

Withbest wishes and regards

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Astroboy]

Prakash.s.Bagga Ji,

Here in SPN, it is quite understandable that with our grammatical understanding of the verses, the real meaning should be discussed in order to understand the journey we have to take from A to B.

~ namjap ~

 

[jasi]

SS AKAL JI.

PRAKASH S BAGGA Ji.

My understanding is that Guru Gobindh Singh Ji Maharaj clearly stated that Shabad is Guru That is why Guru Gobindh Singh Maharaj put end to all successions of any future Guru and there for enjoined upon creating a system to accept Granth Sahib as our Guru for eternity and accept Shabad as our Guru.

The most important contribution to the world is to create a khalsa by dimensioning all the beliefs of cast system and follow Guru Nanak 's continue preaching that we all come from one light.

Khalsa is created even equality between Guru and Chela became the same.

Khalsa was created on continue beliefs and constant preaching to abolish the cast system by nine Gurus where Hindu and other upper Jaties were felt threatened to loose their century old privileges of being superior cast was in danger. They did complained to rulers at that time that the growing faith by our Gurus is a threat to them.

Remarkable even in today's society where world is struggling for equality and most of the democratic countries has enshrined human rights in their constituencies to protect all regardless of their religion beliefs,colors ,race ,gender, which was higly criticized,condemned by Guru Nanak dev ji,but we are going backwards on our own Gurus to believe in cast system by adding family names to identify our cast (Jaties) .

That is the platform on which our faith is standing since Guru Nanak Dev Ji blessed all the world with HIS teachings and made us universal faith.


Reforms always start from an individual not by changing the world or by preachings .If one believe in Guru Nanak Dev Ji's blessing to teach the equality among all human race then must follow the teachings to start first step of mending one self's belief in practical manners.

Jaspi

MANES-PALAM
Pl Accept Divine Greetings,
Having gone thru your message I appreciate your views very much.What I feel is that NAMELESS is the reference of the state of the CREATOR in its NON -ACTIVE condition also known as SUNUUM STATE where nothing exist.
But Gurbaani is the Divine messages of the CREATOR in its active STATE.These messages are in terms of praise of ACTIVE STATE of the creator in terms of DIVINE WORDS....This we come to know from JAP ji as .AKHARI NAAMU AKHARI SALAHA,AKHARI GIYANU GEET GUN GAAH
With Regards
Prakash .S.Bagga

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

The essence of my being, your being, everything's being is the Harjot (lovely name!) Once that is experienced/realised, everything else follows. The rest is just commentary. The Tao Te Ch'ing is correct here. People love to complicate things.

For some reason, this reminds of that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when the swordsman does his fancy dance of attack and Indiana Jones takes out his gun and shoots him.

Guru ji is so sweet! icecreamkauricecreamkudiicecreammundawahkaur

 

[spnadmin]

Some very interesting philosophical points, at times very moving statements, are made in this thread.

However, asking what is the meaning of "shabad" is a relevant question and I hope that some of those in discussion take it up.

Also, when we quote from Sri Guru Granth Sabib Maharaj ji, one line is not enough. Please do remember the forum rule to post the entire shabad, and then interpret it. Try to relate your understanding of the shabad to the other comments you have made. That way all of us learn. Thank you

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

there is a school of thought regarding grammer of Gurbaani words that words which indicate Singularity of the word using a single line under the last letter of the word should not be pronounced. No one has ever questioned the reason for this concept.
Because of this school of thought there is lot of confusion in correct interpretation of Gurbaani.
We have never imagined the damaging effect of this school of thought .Since pronunciation has been avoided this results in correct writing of Gurbaani when anyone is going to write the very impotant underline of the Gurbaani word is omitted thus there is total change in the form of Gurbaani words
We all would notice that in traslation of Gurbaani to English or any other lanuage the form of the words of Gurbaani is changed.Very few translators have done excellent work by giving suitalble guideline for Singular words. Mostly we come Gurbaani translation with wrong words.
Due to above our interpretaion of Gurbaani understanding would always remain incorrect and ambiguous.This is also resulting in direct clashes of views.
Therefore it would be worthwhile to review this school of thought which is creating confusion only
We must talk to our academic scholars as well to know the exact state of this school of thought'
Unless we are able to differentiate betwieen Singularity or pluralty of the Gurbaani words
from the form of the word itself IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE TO GET THE TRUE MEANINGS OF GURBAANI .

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

NAMJAPJi,
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
I would like to share my understanding about the word SHABAD as indicated in your previous message.
Gramatically the word SHABAD is PLURAL and is therefore reference for several words to gether.These several words may be of same character or different characters depending upon the reference of context in consideration.
Gramatically the word SHABADu[single line under its last letter D] is SINGULAR and referes to A SINGLE WORD. In Gurbaani the use of word SHABADu very common .
In Gurbaani we find that the Word SHABADu has been referred as GUROO[two lines under the last letter]

We must have full knowledge of the grammer this word GUROO as this is the very BASE
word in Gurbaani.Gramatically this word GUROO is SINGULAR Noun its two lines under the last letter R,represent a pair of two things together.[This pair is two words of the same character]
Therefore we can write word GUROO as [GURU.GURU].Here the word GURU is again Singular Noun to represent something one only..
Thus in Gurbaani the meaning of SHABADuGUROO can be understood as 'A SINGLE WORD " being reffered as GUROO. It is now very important as to what is that SINGLEWORD being reffered as GUROO.?
The above knowledge will be the starting A for further understanding of Gurbaani

What ever is stated here is the grace of SATiGURu and nothing is mine.

With warm regards
Prakash.S.Bagga.

 

[Astroboy]

Thus in Gurbaani the meaning of SHABADuGUROO can be understood as 'A SINGLE WORD " being reffered as GUROO. It is now very important as to what is that SINGLEWORD being reffered as GUROO.?
The above knowledge will be the starting A for further understanding of Gurbaani

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
रागु आसा महला १ ॥
Rāg āsā mėhlā 1.
Raag Aasaa, First Mehl:

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਛਿਅ ਘਰ ਛਿਅ ਗੁਰ ਛਿਅ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥
छिअ घर छिअ गुर छिअ उपदेस ॥
Cẖẖi▫a gẖar cẖẖi▫a gur cẖẖi▫a upḏes.
There are six schools of philosophy, six teachers, and six sets of teachings.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥
गुरु गुरु एको वेस अनेक ॥१॥
Gur gur eko ves anek. ||1||
But the Teacher of teachers is the One, who appears in so many forms. ||1||

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਬਾਬਾ ਜੈ ਘਰਿ ਕਰਤੇ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
बाबा जै घरि करते कीरति होइ ॥
Bābā jai gẖar karṯe kīraṯ ho▫e.
O Baba: that system in which the Praises of the Creator are sung -

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੋ ਘਰੁ ਰਾਖੁ ਵਡਾਈ ਤੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
सो घरु राखु वडाई तोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
So gẖar rākẖ vadā▫ī ṯo▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
follow that system; in it rests true greatness. ||1||Pause||

Prakash Ji,

Let's put it to test if this theory sticks. According to your recent finding, Shabad and Guru are singular which may mean single thing.

Does this verse own up to your suggestion?

ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥

</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[jasi]

SS AKAL JI.

ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥

Well said and well understood and appreciate Nam Jap Ji.

Jaspi

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

NAMJAP Ji,
Pl accept my Divine Greetings

First of all I may clear my views that I have always mentioned that the Word SHABADu and GUROO are SINGULAR {Not the word SHABAD and GURU}
Secondly I must congratulate you for presenting the most appropriate verse from Gurbaani to depict the word {GURU.GURU} as indication for the word GUROO. You have righyly understood ,Sir.
This way we come to know the Grammer of the word GUROO and its Gramatical relationship with the word GURU. This is only half the Knowledge about the word
GUROO
[For complete knowledge about anything we must know minimum two parameters of that particular thing.The two parameters are
1....Figure of thing and
2...Name of the thing
In absence of any one of parameterour knowledge about that thing will remain incomplete.]

Regarding the word GUROO we have so far known the Name of the SINGULAR WORD as GUROO.But we are still required to know the Figure of the SINGULAR WORD being reffered as GUROO.
Once we know this our Knowledge about the word GUROO will be complete.The knowledge of the Figure of the word GUROO is given in SGGS Ji WE are required to know this also
By the Grace of SATi GURU
With regards
Prakash.S.bagga

.

 

[Astroboy]

Parkash Ji,

Can you simplify your explanation by citing examples from SGGS, so that an one can understand better. Right now you are saying Guroo and Guru are different - whereas SGGS is written in Gurmukhi script. If you want me to paste any Gurmukhi verse (to make it easier for you) to point the differences, let me know which one you want to discuss. I will post it in Gurmukhi for you.

~ namjap ~

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

NAMJAP Ji
Pl accapt my Divine Greetings,
I am greatly thankful for your suggestion for use of Gurmukhi Script for Gurbaani as this would give more clear idea of the view. In fact I was just thinking about this and I saw
your gesture.Certainly I shall do that .I would refer Page No from SGGSji you can do this accordingly.Once again thanks for your kind assistance.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[findingmyway]

NAMJAP Ji,
Pl accept my Divine Greetings

First of all I may clear my views that I have always mentioned that the Word SHABADu and GUROO are SINGULAR {Not the word SHABAD and GURU}
Secondly I must congratulate you for presenting the most appropriate verse from Gurbaani to depict the word {GURU.GURU} as indication for the word GUROO. You have righyly understood ,Sir.
This way we come to know the Grammer of the word GUROO and its Gramatical relationship with the word GURU. This is only half the Knowledge about the word
GUROO
[For complete knowledge about anything we must know minimum two parameters of that particular thing.The two parameters are
1....Figure of thing and
2...Name of the thing
In absence of any one of parameterour knowledge about that thing will remain incomplete.]

Regarding the word GUROO we have so far known the Name of the SINGULAR WORD as GUROO.But we are still required to know the Figure of the SINGULAR WORD being reffered as GUROO.
Once we know this our Knowledge about the word GUROO will be complete.The knowledge of the Figure of the word GUROO is given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji WE are required to know this also
By the Grace of SATi GURU
With regards
Prakash.S.bagga

.

Dear Prakash Ji,
I am a little confused! We have had one Guru at a time throughout history. Guru Nanak Dev Ji passed on the gurgaddi to Guru Angad dev ji and so on until Guru Granth Sahib Ji. When, why and how does Guru appear as plural in Gurbani?
Look forward to being enlightened with quotes and ang numbers.
Thanks,
Jasleen

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

FINDINGMYW AYS,PL ACCEPT my Divine Greetings,
Thank you for your intersting question.
First let me clear you thatin my post I have so far not mentioned about the GURU appearing as PLURAL.
I may write a quote from Gurbaani as
"DHUR KI BAANI AAEE TINi SAGALI CHINT MITAAI
DAYAAL PURAKH MIHARWANA HARi NANAK SAACHu VAKHANA" pp627-628
From above quote we get to know that BAANI is of the DHUR.
Now the question is what is the source of the DHUR? IS IT GURU NANAK DEV Ji or
ELSE
The answer to your question lies in understanding of above.
For any further clarification you are wecome to interact in the subject. I must appreciate your interest in Gurbaani.May SATiGURU be your guide
With best wishes
Prakash .s Bagga

 

[findingmyway]

From reading the whole shabad dhur is Akal Purakh. Therefore shabad has come from Akal Purakh in the form of our Guru.
Jasleen