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Was Rajneesh The Right Person To Translate Japji Sahib?

Veeru

SPNer
Jun 28, 2004
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I saw a very nasty video by Rajneesh that it would be shameful for a Sikh to even post it here. I have heard from many people that Rajneesh has described Japji Sahib very well. I am wondering if people agree that Rajneesh was not the appropriate person to do vyakhya on Japji Sahib. I don't believe he was a spiritual.
 
Jul 13, 2004
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If you are really interested, then you need to spend more time to read and understood Osho Rajneesh well... and not just comment based on one or a few videos or books.
 
Jan 18, 2007
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:up:
Re: Was Rajneesh the right person to translate Japji Sahib?
If you are really interested, then you need to spend more time to read and understood Osho Rajneesh well... and not just comment based on one or a few videos or books.
Well said Arvind ji. I second it.
 

vaapaaraa

SPNer
Jul 15, 2004
196
5
he had told that only Guru Nanak Ji was enlightened, and the other Gurus were ordinary ppl, he was widely attacked by Sikhs and but got saved from death.

Dont follow fools like Osho. He used to read all day in library, thats where he got his "knowledge".
 
Jul 13, 2004
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Question: How many of members have heard or read Osho's translation first hand... without getting influenced by his other trains of thoughts.
 

Veeru

SPNer
Jun 28, 2004
68
8
41
If you are really interested, then you need to spend more time to read and understood Osho Rajneesh well... and not just comment based on one or a few videos or books.
Let's put it this way. Spirituality is like pure water. Even a single drop of dirty water in it destroys it all...
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
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Jun 30, 2004
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Henderson, NV.
Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon. Fortunatley they were caught before the crime took place. They commited other crimes. His right hand adviser was jailed for bribery. Free sex/ group sex were mode de jour at his Ashrams. In order to avoid prison, Rajneesh agreed to be deported.

With the character like this, it becomes an insult if one claims to interpret Guru Nanak's Gurbani.

Lotus can grow in muck however not all kinds of muck can make a lotus grow. Rajneesh belonged to the latter.I have listened to Rajneesh's interpretation of Japji. Nothing to write home about. Too much Hindutva in it.

Tejwant
 

A_Learner

SPNer
Jan 6, 2008
3
2
Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon. Fortunatley they were caught before the crime took place. They commited other crimes. His right hand adviser was jailed for bribery. Free sex/ group sex were mode de jour at his Ashrams. In order to avoid prison, Rajneesh agreed to be deported.

With the character like this, it becomes an insult if one claims to interpret Guru Nanak's Gurbani.

Lotus can grow in muck however not all kinds of muck can make a lotus grow. Rajneesh belonged to the latter.I have listened to Rajneesh's interpretation of Japji. Nothing to write home about. Too much Hindutva in it.

Tejwant

Folks, it is very easy to criticize somebody. And especially those who are spiritually connected. Whatever character Rajneesh had should not be the question, your intension should be to find out whether he did a good job in explaining the meaning of Japji Sahib or not.... (A true soul can be of a sex worker, while a filthy one can be of pundit )

And I think he has done an excellent job. I have listened to his translation and, from my experience, I can say that his viyakha was completely lucid and comprehensive. One of the best I have heard.
Guru Nanak's banis have extra-ordinary depth, comparatively. And he has done well in exploring that.

At the end of the translation you become a bigger fan of Guru Nanak's explanations than Rajneesh.
I think his translation should be recorded done in English too.


:up:
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all!

Rajneesh Jee was a professor of philosophy. He was a great orator. God blessed him with higher consciousness than usual. God also arranged great Satsangs through him.

Explaining Japujee is not restricted to ignorant Baabaas only. All spiritually progressing persons get fascinated with its Wisdom.

For the true Gurus JAPU or Simran of Naam or Sabad is first and must to realize Truth. Osho Jee skipped but the word JAPU explaining Japujee. I wonder. Why?


Balbir Singh
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon. Fortunatley they were caught before the crime took place. They commited other crimes. His right hand adviser was jailed for bribery. Free sex/ group sex were mode de jour at his Ashrams. In order to avoid prison, Rajneesh agreed to be deported.
no wonder Veer Balbir Ji is in his favor:

Balbir Singh said:
He was a great orator. God blessed him with higher consciousness than usual. God also arranged great Satsangs through him.

me neech cannot thank Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Sahibaan enough for blessing us with Gurbani-DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB

me neech is humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
 
Apr 4, 2007
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Rajneesh was a charlaton and a criminal. His sect OSHO had plans to poison the city water system is Oregon.

they also succeeded in poisoning the food in 10 restaurants with salmonella bacteria... making 800 people sick and hospitalizing at least 50. it was the first bioterrorism attack on american soil.

great guy, that rajneesh. :}:)

so what if he translated/interpreted japji sahib. so have many SIKH scholars with less dirty backgrounds.
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
'Translating Japji' IS THE TRICK TO ATTRACT FOLLOWERS. THAT'S ALL.

A show off of borrowed knowledge AS HIS OWN.......
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
Even Mr. Khushwant singh has also made his own translation and has stated many things about jap ji sahib. Translation ,in a democracy, is free for all with no strings attached. Where is the risk?

Osho/Rajnish has a good following in India. There are many centres in almost al big cities.
 

bhupipadam

SPNer
Oct 25, 2006
1
1
I saw a very nasty video by Rajneesh that it would be shameful for a Sikh to even post it here. I have heard from many people that Rajneesh has described Japji Sahib very well. I am wondering if people agree that Rajneesh was not the appropriate person to do vyakhya on Japji Sahib. I don't believe he was a spiritual.


----------------------------------------
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Dear Gursikhs,
Had any one created any thing or write any thing that should explain Gurbani and osho rajneesh did that in Japji Sahib,s translation in front of giani zail singh. we are all bound imperfectionist bcoz no body is complete and who will make normal humans to understand guru,s bani like japji sahib. dont say who did it just read it and how well he explained it that should be the point of consideration. by talking on this kind of issue we are again into personalisation process as it was 500 years back. Gurus themselves did enter bani of different saints into Guru Granth Sahib symbolises that only the word in the praise of God will be considered nothing else,then why this kind of personalised question like he was eligible for describing Jap ji sahib. Do u people agree that we ourself are eligible for talking like this for any one like osho or some one else or even me or urself ,,,, why we are talking non sense for nothing just forget the word criticise and learn the word meditation , start doing it u ll find hidden quotes by God that ll make ur mouth shut and u ll stop criticising any thing for ever . criticising will bring ur moral down in spirituality bcoz God never ever did any thing wrong till date ....... rest is all upto ur knowledgability if u could understand silence of God. Gurfateh......
 
Oct 18, 2008
1
0
he had told that only Guru Nanak Ji was enlightened, and the other Gurus were ordinary ppl, he was widely attacked by Sikhs and but got saved from death.

Dont follow fools like Osho. He used to read all day in library, thats where he got his "knowledge".
Can u shre the proof where Acharya Rajnish says that only Guru Nanak Sahib was enlightened and others wern't...When you claim something you claims it with proofs. Otherwise ur claims is nothing but a VOID!
 

pk70

Writer
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Feb 25, 2008
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Osho was very learned person and he grasped pretty much well what he studied, he could recall from his memory any reference he wanted to. After having said that, I must say, he had no originality to pass on, just like a Math teacher, who can teach but cannot introduce new principles to solve problems. If you read his interpretation of Jap ji, you would never go into the depth Guru Nanak takes you if he is understood. Osho talked on hear say, never stuck to the idea Guru tries to pass on. Just one example, about Guru Nanak, whose mind was embracing Lord as infinite, who leads the soul to move on higher through realm of knowledge, Osho wrote” when Nanak died, he thought about his birth place( as he witnessed that) and imagined flowers were blooming…’ Osho could have done so , not Guru Nanak, there is no place in Jap ji about such whims of mind. I listened to his tapes, read his books and also especially went through his interpretation of Japji, couldn’t find it impressive in any way, I mean not even the vast knowledge he displayed in his other discourses or books, it lacked it here. He was a real master of words, many did fall for that art; however, mind fixed on logic and its application as he did, would not get influenced by him in any way. So Sikhs should not feel better that he did any better job in interpreting Jap ji, it can be systematically torn apart by taking support from Guru Nanak’s ideology alone.
 

A_Learner

SPNer
Jan 6, 2008
3
2
Osho was very learned person and he grasped pretty much well what he studied, he could recall from his memory any reference he wanted to. After having said that, I must say, he had no originality to pass on, just like a Math teacher, who can teach but cannot introduce new principles to solve problems. If you read his interpretation of Jap ji, you would never go into the depth Guru Nanak takes you if he is understood. Osho talked on hear say, never stuck to the idea Guru tries to pass on. Just one example, about Guru Nanak, whose mind was embracing Lord as infinite, who leads the soul to move on higher through realm of knowledge, Osho wrote” when Nanak died, he thought about his birth place( as he witnessed that) and imagined flowers were blooming…’ Osho could have done so , not Guru Nanak, there is no place in Jap ji about such whims of mind. I listened to his tapes, read his books and also especially went through his interpretation of Japji, couldn’t find it impressive in any way, I mean not even the vast knowledge he displayed in his other discourses or books, it lacked it here. He was a real master of words, many did fall for that art; however, mind fixed on logic and its application as he did, would not get influenced by him in any way. So Sikhs should not feel better that he did any better job in interpreting Jap ji, it can be systematically torn apart by taking support from Guru Nanak’s ideology alone.



I take that you did not like the translation/presentation Rajnesh made. Well, that is your take.
But I loved it. There were so much unknown that he was able to explore. I haven't read or heard anybody explaining Japji Sahib with such lucidity.
I mean who was able to explain Infinity-Infinities!!

I don't think it was done for 'showoff'. And even if it was done to impress you with his knowledge, it should not effect you. I think the intention should be to able understand & assist in meditation.

A story goes a Dhagi-Baba told a woman that her ailing husband will be pain free, if she serves food to Baba for one year and utter waheguru's name during cooking & serving. And she started bringing food to him. She had to cover a lot of distance from her place and cross a river to reach Baba's place. But she meticously & religiously would serve him food while uttering the true name. In the monsoon season, the husband gets well and woman asks Baba to accompany her to their home to bless their place. The river was flooded & woman asks Baba to follow her lead to reach the other side. Now Baba is scared of the river and tells the woman she has gone crazy in asking him to clear the river. But woman persists that she has been doing it for months by uttering waheguru's name, as per Baba's instructions.

Moral of the Story - EVEN if a not so liked/ dishonest person puts you in the right path, it is still good for you and works in your favor.

We are not debating the personality & character of Rajesh. Whereas we are discussing his oration & transalation of Japji Sahib. And I think he has done it extremly well. So my appreciations to him for exposing certain things my novice mind was not able to conceptualize.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa. Waheguru ji ke fateh.
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
I take that you did not like the translation/presentation Rajnesh made. Well, that is your take.
But I loved it. There were so much unknown that he was able to explore. I haven't read or heard anybody explaining Japji Sahib with such lucidity.
I mean who was able to explain Infinity-Infinities!!

I don't think it was done for 'showoff'. And even if it was done to impress you with his knowledge, it should not effect you. I think the intention should be to able understand & assist in meditation.

A story goes a Dhagi-Baba told a woman that her ailing husband will be pain free, if she serves food to Baba for one year and utter waheguru's name during cooking & serving. And she started bringing food to him. She had to cover a lot of distance from her place and cross a river to reach Baba's place. But she meticously & religiously would serve him food while uttering the true name. In the monsoon season, the husband gets well and woman asks Baba to accompany her to their home to bless their place. The river was flooded & woman asks Baba to follow her lead to reach the other side. Now Baba is scared of the river and tells the woman she has gone crazy in asking him to clear the river. But woman persists that she has been doing it for months by uttering waheguru's name, as per Baba's instructions.

Moral of the Story - EVEN if a not so liked/ dishonest person puts you in the right path, it is still good for you and works in your favor.

We are not debating the personality & character of Rajesh. Whereas we are discussing his oration & transalation of Japji Sahib. And I think he has done it extremly well. So my appreciations to him for exposing certain things my novice mind was not able to conceptualize.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa. Waheguru ji ke fateh.
I wrote in favor of his being intelligence, his art of words. Point out a single sentence where I went personal by attacking his personal life ?( who did, it is their take to weigh a person who comments on Spiritual Master like Guru Nanak, so let them have this liberty, please read the name of the thread)

I want you to post any thing that is lucid and that impressed you on Jap ji by Osho, you are talking as if you had read all other Japji interpretations; I doubt that; however, if you say so, I take your word but it also proves, under his impression, you have forgot that due to compact form of Japji, Osho explanation falls short. So please, to prove your impression, post his any interpretation, I shall see how much lucidity is there, keeping in mind Guru Nanak ideology in totality There are many Osho lovers out there who advocate his lower mentality comments about Lord Christ too, so I am aware of that too. I do not need to take his personality to discuss here. If they claim his interpretation is lucid, I have to resist it on the basis of Guru Nanak ideology. Thanks.
 

A_Learner

SPNer
Jan 6, 2008
3
2
I wrote in favor of his being intelligence, his art of words. Point out a single sentence where I went personal by attacking his personal life ?( who did, it is their take to weigh a person who comments on Spiritual Master like Guru Nanak, so let them have this liberty, please read the name of the thread)

'Name' of thread is - Was Rajneesh The Right Person to Translate Japji Sahib?
Was Rajneesh The Right Person - That indicates you are judging the person's knowledge or personal characterter.
There is no animosity here. It seems that you have taken opinion bit personally. My opinion is my view point. And I am certainly free to put forward my opinion.


I want you to post any thing that is lucid and that impressed you on Jap ji by Osho,

I provided that in my earlier post about - Infinite Infinities.


you are talking as if you had read all other Japji interpretations; I doubt that;

Again Singh Sahib - This is a discussion forum....you do not even know or have met me. And yet you are able to pass judgment about my knowledge. I have heard/read transalations atleast in double figures- Just FYI. And I wouldn't like to politicize this topic.

I clearly stated that it 'seems' that you did not like the translation. But I did.
You and I have two different minds and the differences are bound to happen. But don't underestimate anybody's knowledge or view point.


however, if you say so, I take your word but it also proves, under his impression, you have forgot that due to compact form of Japji, Osho explanation falls short.

I am not sure what you meant by 'compact form of Japji'. And how his explanation falls short. Guru Nanak's bani as said - 'Baani dhooroh chal keh aayi'. So whether form it is in 'compact or expanded' is again an opinion.

So please, to prove your impression, post his any interpretation, I shall see how much lucidity is there, keeping in mind Guru Nanak ideology in totality

Again I have put forth my view point. And it seems you have done that too.
I am not sure what good will it do by posting a couplet of his translation and you passing out a judgment.

According to you it is not lucid whereas I think it is. Lets end it there!!

There are many Osho lovers out there who advocate his lower mentality comments about Lord Christ too, so I am aware of that too. I do not need to take his personality to discuss here. If they claim his interpretation is lucid, I have to resist it on the basis of Guru Nanak ideology.

What is Guru Nanak's ideology? You refer it quite often and seem to understand it well. Please share your thoughts.


Thanks
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
I wrote in favor of his being intelligence, his art of words. Point out a single sentence where I went personal by attacking his personal life ?( who did, it is their take to weigh a person who comments on Spiritual Master like Guru Nanak, so let them have this liberty, please read the name of the thread)
'Name' of thread is - Was Rajneesh The Right Person to Translate Japji Sahib?
Was Rajneesh The Right Person - That indicates you are judging the person's knowledge or personal characterter.
There is no animosity here. It seems that you have taken opinion bit personally. My opinion is my view point. And I am certainly free to put forward my opinion.

No Sir, I didn’t, some of the posters questioned his being spiritual high enough to comment on Spiritual Master Guru Nanak, you didn’t like it, I just asked you to let them do what they want to do as per the Name of the Thread. Now, instead of understanding that request, you have blamed me to be judging Osho. I wonder what takes you to the defense of Osho so quickly[/FONT]
I want you to post any thing that is lucid and that impressed you on Jap ji by Osho,
I provided that in my earlier post about - Infinite Infinities.
Kindly take some time to post Osho’s lucid interpretation of Guru Nanaks’Japji, not the fabricated stories. You seem well impressed by his interpretation (I am not judging you, just your posts say so) As I already explained how he cooks stories about the last moment of Guru Nanak Ji.” In my first post[/FONT], [/FONT]you do too[/FONT]

you are talking as if you had read all other Japji interpretations; I doubt that;
Again Singh Sahib - This is a discussion forum....you do not even know or have met me. And yet you are able to pass judgment about my knowledge. I have heard/read transalations atleast in double figures- Just FYI. And I wouldn't like to politicize this topic.
I am, sorry if you feel that way, I talked about other interpretations only because you were defining Osho’s interpretation very lucid( if others were not!), I wonder how could I miss it and couldn’t find it as lucid as you state. To clear doubts about our statements, we must look at the same interpretation together to see if his interpretation is really lucid or not! I took your words as a fact, isn’t it a kind of accepting your expertise, if you don’t see, I wonder but I did, why still you are saying you do not want to politicize it. It is simply a matter of proving what is the fact about what we claim on this forum[/FONT]
I clearly stated that it 'seems' that you did not like the translation. But I did.
You and I have two different minds and the differences are bound to happen. But don't underestimate anybody's knowledge or view point.
I didn’t underestimate any ones understanding or knowledge, that will be my wrong judgment about any one (I believe people know more than me but I like to question though if I feel it should be made clear and, I hope it is not considered wrong) I simply asked you to bring it up, lets see, what is wrong with that or why it is so lucid?[/FONT]

however, if you say so, I take your word but it also proves, under his impression, you have forgot that due to compact form of Japji, Osho explanation falls short.
I am not sure what you meant by 'compact form of Japji'. And how his explanation falls short. Guru Nanak's bani as said - 'Baani dhooroh chal keh aayi'. So whether form it is in 'compact or expanded' is again an opinion.
That is very strange, you do not understand that Japji’ form is very compact, very hard to decipher easily, after interpreting, one feels, some thing is left out, this fact [/FONT] has been shared by many scholars like Principle Teja Singh ji, Gurbachan Singh Talib and others. How Osho fall short, just bring one of your favorite Japji Pouris interpreted by Osho, I shall show you. Dhur ki Bani is also in compact form, it must be interpreted by seers for common people like us.[/FONT]
So please, to prove your impression, post his any interpretation, I shall see how much lucidity is there, keeping in mind Guru Nanak ideology in totality
Again I have put forth my view point. And it seems you have done that too.
I am not sure what good will it do by posting a couplet of his translation and you passing out a judgment.
According to you it is not lucid whereas I think it is. Lets end it there!!
. Osho commented on Guru Nanak, we need to judge if he did his work honestly or just played a game of words to lure people. What is wrong [/FONT]with that? The thread requires judgment on him, why to avoid the truth. If it were between you and me, why we would be discussing on forum?[/FONT]
There are many Osho lovers out there who advocate his lower mentality comments about Lord Christ too, so I am aware of that too. I do not need to take his personality to discuss here. If they claim his interpretation is lucid, I have to resist it on the basis of Guru Nanak ideology.
What is Guru Nanak's ideology? You refer it quite often and seem to understand it well. Please share your thoughts.
Thanks
You bring Osho’s interpretation; I shall explain you one by one[/FONT]. Thanks:)
 

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