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Learn Punjabi Translations And Transliterations Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues And Controversies

ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਰਹੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਹੋਈ
लख चउरासीह फिरदे रहे बिनु सतिगुर मुकति न होई ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh firḏe rahe bin saṯgur mukaṯ na ho▫ī.
People continue wandering through the cycle of 8.4 million incarnations; without the True Guru, liberation is not obtained

Here ਫਿਰਦੇ is translated as wandering( i spelled it wrong), i don't know why they translated as again in the first result!
 
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ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

The question arises that -

we know that we die and are born, but what affect does libertaion has on this cycle and what is liberation according to guru sahibs. I had already made clear that liberation in sikhi is acieved as alive!
 

ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

The answer is provided by Guru Sahib on the very next page-
These two are our 2nd and 3rd result- after page seventy on page 71 is the shabad that I will quote -

Page 69, Line 19
ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਵਾਰੋ ਵਾਰ ॥੫॥
बिरथा जनमु गवाइआ मरि जमहि वारो वार ॥५॥
Birthā janam gavā▫i▫ā mar jamėh vāro vār. ||5||
They waste their lives uselessly; they die and are reincarnated over and over again. ||5||
Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 70, Line 18
ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਤਾ ਸਰਪ ਕੀ ਜੂਨਿ ਗਇਆ ॥੬॥
चिति न आइओ पारब्रहमु ता सरप की जूनि गइआ ॥६॥
Cẖiṯ na ā▫i▫o pārbarahm ṯā sarap kī jūn ga▫i▫ā. ||6||
and yet, if you do not come to remember the Supreme Lord God, you shall be reincarnated as a snake. ||6||
_______________________________________________________________________
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ
सिरीरागु महला ३ घरु १ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3 gẖar 1.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl, First House:

ਜਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸਿਰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕਾ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ
जिस ही की सिरकार है तिस ही का सभु कोइ ॥
Jis hī kī sirkār hai ṯis hī kā sabẖ ko▫e.
Everyone belongs to the One who rules the Universe.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣੀ ਸਚੁ ਘਟਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ
गुरमुखि कार कमावणी सचु घटि परगटु होइ ॥
Gurmukẖ kār kamāvṇī sacẖ gẖat pargat ho▫e.
The Gurmukh practices good deeds, and the truth is revealed in the heart.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਿਸ ਕੈ ਸਚੁ ਵਸੈ ਸਚੇ ਸਚੀ ਸੋਇ
अंतरि जिस कै सचु वसै सचे सची सोइ ॥
Anṯar jis kai sacẖ vasai sacẖe sacẖī so▫e.
True is the reputation of the true, within whom truth abides.

ਸਚਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੇ ਵਿਛੁੜਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
सचि मिले से न विछुड़हि तिन निज घरि वासा होइ ॥१॥
Sacẖ mile se na vicẖẖuṛėh ṯin nij gẖar vāsā ho▫e. ||1||
Those who meet the True Lord are not separated again; they come to dwell in the home of the self deep within. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਕੋਇ
मेरे राम मै हरि बिनु अवरु न कोइ ॥
Mere rām mai har bin avar na ko▫e.
O my Lord! Without the Lord, I have no other at all.

ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਸਚੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
सतगुरु सचु प्रभु निरमला सबदि मिलावा होइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Saṯgur sacẖ parabẖ nirmalā sabaḏ milāvā ho▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The True Guru leads us to meet the Immaculate True God through the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause||

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੋ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪੇ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ
सबदि मिलै सो मिलि रहै जिस नउ आपे लए मिलाइ ॥
Sabaḏ milai so mil rahai jis na▫o āpe la▫e milā▫e.
One whom the Lord merges into Himself is merged in the Shabad, and remains so merged.

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਕੋ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ
दूजै भाइ को ना मिलै फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā▫e ko nā milai fir fir āvai jā▫e.
No one merges with Him through the love of duality; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation.

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਇਕੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਏਕੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ
सभ महि इकु वरतदा एको रहिआ समाइ ॥
Sabẖ mėh ik varaṯḏā eko rahi▫ā samā▫e.
The One Lord permeates all. The One Lord is pervading everywhere.

ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪਿ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥
जिस नउ आपि दइआलु होइ सो गुरमुखि नामि समाइ ॥२॥
Jis na▫o āp ḏa▫i▫āl ho▫e so gurmukẖ nām samā▫e. ||2||
That Gurmukh, unto whom the Lord shows His Kindness, is absorbed in the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||

ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਜੋਤਕੀ ਵਾਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
पड़ि पड़ि पंडित जोतकी वाद करहि बीचारु ॥
Paṛ paṛ pandiṯ joṯkī vāḏ karahi bīcẖār.
After all their reading, the Pandits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers argue and debate.

ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਭਵੀ ਬੁਝਈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲੋਭ ਵਿਕਾਰੁ
मति बुधि भवी न बुझई अंतरि लोभ विकारु ॥
Maṯ buḏẖ bẖavī na bujẖ▫ī anṯar lobẖ vikār.
Their intellect and understanding are *******ed; they just don't understand. They are filled with greed and corruption.

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਭਰਮਦੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਹੋਇ ਖੁਆਰੁ
लख चउरासीह भरमदे भ्रमि भ्रमि होइ खुआरु ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh bẖaramḏe bẖaram bẖaram ho▫e kẖu▫ār.
Through 8.4 million incarnations they wander lost and confused; through all their wandering and roaming, they are ruined.

ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
पूरबि लिखिआ कमावणा कोइ न मेटणहारु ॥३॥
Pūrab likẖi▫ā kamāvaṇā ko▫e na metaṇhār. ||3||
They act according to their pre-ordained destiny, which no one can erase. ||3||

ਸਤਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਗਾਖੜੀ ਸਿਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ
सतगुर की सेवा गाखड़ी सिरु दीजै आपु गवाइ ॥
Saṯgur kī sevā gākẖ▫ṛī sir ḏījai āp gavā▫e.
It is very difficult to serve the True Guru. Surrender your head; give up your selfishness.

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੇਵਾ ਪਵੈ ਸਭ ਥਾਇ
सबदि मिलहि ता हरि मिलै सेवा पवै सभ थाइ ॥
Sabaḏ milėh ṯā har milai sevā pavai sabẖ thā▫e.
Realizing the Shabad, one meets with the Lord, and all one's service is accepted.

ਪਾਰਸਿ ਪਰਸਿਐ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ
पारसि परसिऐ पारसु होइ जोती जोति समाइ ॥
Pāras parsi▫ai pāras ho▫e joṯī joṯ samā▫e.
By personally experiencing the Personality of the Guru, one's own personality is uplifted, and one's light merges into the Light.

ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਆਇ ॥੪॥
जिन कउ पूरबि लिखिआ तिन सतगुरु मिलिआ आइ ॥४॥
Jin ka▫o pūrab likẖi▫ā ṯin saṯgur mili▫ā ā▫e. ||4||
Those who have such pre-ordained destiny come to meet the True Guru. ||4||

ਮਨ ਭੁਖਾ ਭੁਖਾ ਮਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਮਤ ਤੂ ਕਰਹਿ ਪੂਕਾਰ
मन भुखा भुखा मत करहि मत तू करहि पूकार ॥
Man bẖukẖā bẖukẖā maṯ karahi maṯ ṯū karahi pūkār.
O mind, don't cry out that you are hungry, always hungry; stop complaining.

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਿਰੀ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇਇ ਅਧਾਰੁ
लख चउरासीह जिनि सिरी सभसै देइ अधारु ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh jin sirī sabẖsai ḏe▫e aḏẖār.
The One who created the 8.4 million species of beings gives sustenance to all.

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਸਦਾ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੈ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਸਾਰ
निरभउ सदा दइआलु है सभना करदा सार ॥
Nirbẖa▫o saḏā ḏa▫i▫āl hai sabẖnā karḏā sār.
The Fearless Lord is forever Merciful; He takes care of all.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੫॥੩॥੩੬॥
नानक गुरमुखि बुझीऐ पाईऐ मोख दुआरु ॥५॥३॥३६॥
Nānak gurmukẖ bujẖī▫ai pā▫ī▫ai mokẖ ḏu▫ār. ||5||3||36||
O Nanak, the Gurmukh understands, and finds the Door of Liberation. ||5||3||36||
 
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ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

One very important thing to learn is that liberations is attained through understand as such is what guru sahib saying in the last line - Also liberations includes ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ , i.e. merging with the prime source/light- as being alive. even this is according to preordaied destiny!
 

Randip Singh

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

The Fools Wrangle over Flesh essay was actually written to address the Mistranslations and Misrepresentations of Bani.

Just as a side note, I would not believe ANYTHING Panthic Weekly writes.:(
 

ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਕੋ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ
दूजै भाइ को ना मिलै फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā▫e ko nā milai fir fir āvai jā▫e.
No one merges with Him through the love of duality; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation.

ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ

This means wandring wandring comes/came( depending on what tense you use) goes/went = not reincarnation
 
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ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

The question left is that once some one achieves liberations is it in reality that he/she does not go through cycle of birth and death or that he she achieves sense of truth that everything is one there for only body dies temporarily, while one is still alive. The point to be noticed is that one has fear/sense of death/birth (ceasing of life) as long one has not understood that all is one and that our soul is ever lasting. once one understands that all is one = no fear of death in fact = not death of oneself by mere breaking of mud/body. we will try to understand what is true as go further in discussion!
 
Oct 14, 2007
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

The question left is that once some one achieves liberations is it in reality that he/she does not go through cycle of birth and death or that he she achieves sense of truth that everything is one there for only body dies temporarily, while one is still alive. The point to be noticed is that one has fear/sense of death/birth (ceasing of life) as long one has not understood that all is one and that our soul is ever lasting. once one understands that all is one = no fear of death in fact = not death of oneself by mere breaking of mud/body. we will try to understand what is true as go further in discussion!
You are a store -house of knowledge. I wonder as to why you asked the question of 'janam' and 'Joni'.
My instant reaction is that you are doing a nice job. can I join you in the discussion.?
But I am afraid that my knowledge is limited.Hence , for the time being, I shall prefer to listen to you and read your posts.

Regards.!
 

ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

no no - your( every one else's) participation (and criticism) is what I need- the point is to get the truth out - no matter if I am wrong or you are! you are most welcomed!
 
Oct 14, 2007
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Sachkhand
Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

Dear Friend,
There comes a time in one's life that one has to begin practicing . My knowledge is limited but all I know is that Simran should bring some relief and I have lost the virginity of my innocence on this site. I should now become a puran sikh. I have taken many liberties with many persons. I do not want to bother people here who are doing excellent job. I think I have received a call from my Guru.

I am happy that God made me so.

I shall ,however, keep track of your posts. For me last two days have been very painful as i acted against my innate nature and have hurt some people here. I do not want to give anyone any kind of trouble.

Good -Bye for the time being.
 

pk70

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

It would make more sense to take the line in past tense, since it is in coherence with res of shabad. in the lines above this line guru sahib is talking about liberations and how it is achieved. Then in this stanza guru sahib says that you may have all pleasure and kingdoms but still real hapiness does not come without true guru, wondring wondering you have got birth through womb.

Not exactly.
Fir fir should not be translated as “wondering and wondering”
What do you mean by” Then in this stanza Guru sahib says that you may have all pleasure and kingdoms but still real hapiness does not come without true Guru, wondring wondering you have got birth through womb” ?
. If you take “fir fir” as wondering, ( wondering wondering is not right way) still “you have got birth through womb” does not align with”BIN SATGURU SUKH N PAAVAEE” because, Guru ji hints at the consequences of not having true Guru. To go through births again and again, is the consequences, not wondring wondering you have got birth”
Actually “fir” means again, fir fir means again and again, if we take this meaning in consideration, meaning of Guru Vaak is clearer
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਗੁਰ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਹਿ
Without the True Guru one doesn’t get happiness, and goes through births again and again. Dr Baldev Singh refuses to accept transmigration concept but he is dead wrong because repeatedly it is expressed in various shabadas.
 

pk70

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

The question arises that -

we know that we die and are born, but what affect does libertaion has on this cycle and what is liberation according to guru sahibs. I had already made clear that liberation in sikhi is acieved as alive!
Please read carefully the third Nanak is interpreting meaning of Mukti as expressed by First Nanak. I am going to add notes if translation( by S. Manmohan Singh Ji) fails to convey complete message; however, whoever is interested, would see that Mukti is a complete freedom from all kind of worries and pains by being in a state of mind where mind remains stilled and indifferent to all effects and reasons that pressure the mind to endure endless mental sufferings.

ਨਾ 117, ਸਤਰ 1ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰੈ ਅਪੁਨਾਮੁਕਤੀਕਾ ਦਰੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ
Saba marai man mārai apunā mukī kā ar pāvi▫ā. ||3||
Those who die in the Shabad and subdue their own minds, obtain the door of liberation. ||3||
ਮਃ 3
To die in the Shabad must be understood as remaining aware of “shabad” completely(strictly living accordingly to it), with that, mind needs to be counseled accordingly, only then liberation is obtained. Now question rises, what is that liberation? Lets go to First Nanak
Here is a riddle, Guru Nanak puts in context of liberation which eventually said to be achieved through “ Daswan duaar” So Daswan duaar cannot be imaginary, it is the real one, what is it then? If we look at this Guru Vaak,it discusses all about body and mind, its cause of origin and its control under the mind and the system that makes the life goes on ( eyes, nose, ears etc); the tenth one is the brain through which, the being behaves and solves problems and obtains knowledge. In the next Guru Vaak, picture is clearer

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਉਣੈ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ਚੰਚਲ ਚਪਲ ਬੁਧਿ ਕਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ਬੁਝੁ ਰੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਏਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 1. Pa▫uṇai pāṇī agnī kā mel. Cẖancẖal cẖapal buḏẖ kā kẖel. Na▫o ḏarvāje ḏasvā ḏu▫ār. Bujẖ re gi▫ānī ehu bīcẖār. ||1||
Gauri 1st Guru. The body is the union of air water and fire. It is the play thing of the fickle and unsteady mind. It has nine doors, and tenth the gate, O theologian understand and reflect on this.
ਕਥਤਾ ਬਕਤਾ ਸੁਨਤਾ ਸੋਈ ਆਪੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ਸੁ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਹੋਈ ਰਹਾਉ
Kathṯā bakṯā sunṯā so▫ī. Āp bīcẖāre so gi▫ānī ho▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
That Lord is the utterer, speaker and the listener. He, who reflect upon his own-self is the knower of God. Pause.
Guru ji now hints at that knowledge of the “dasm duaar”, in other words “GYAAN/DHYAAN”, its through this, the riddle is understood, Lord Himself is the doer( Karta) in and out but it is known only through the knowledge obtained through Dasmduaar with the help of true Guru who experienced the Lord.

ਦੇਹੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਬੋਲੈ ਪਉਣੁ ਬੁਝੁ ਰੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮੂਆ ਹੈ ਕਉਣੁ ਮੂਈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਓਹੁ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਦੇਖਣਹਾਰੁ
Ḏehī mātī bolai pa▫uṇ. Bujẖ re gi▫ānī mū▫ā hai ka▫uṇ. Mū▫ī suraṯ bāḏ ahaʼnkār. Oh na mū▫ā jo ḏekẖaṇhār. ||2||
The body is the dust, and the wind speaks therein. Consider, O wise-man, who it is that has died. It is the inner-understanding, strife and ego which have died. He, Who is the seer, dies not.
This is the state of being in liberation, please note what Guru ji says, body is just like clay, the breath goes on in and out, the rest which disturbed the whole body is not there. Guru ji questions, then what has died? Answer is” the interest in Maya, futile debating instinct and ego’ are dead, the Lord and the soul that sees all is not dead. This is the state of liberation one can have it while alive. This is the miracle like aspect, the Lord has created within. To clarify more, read the next Guru Vaak

ਜੈ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਤਟਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਜਾਹੀ ਰਤਨ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਘਟ ਹੀ ਮਾਹੀ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਬਾਦੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹੋਦੀ ਵਸਤੁ ਜਾਣੈ
Jai kāraṇ ṯat ṯirath jāhī. Raṯan paḏārath gẖat hī māhī. Paṛ paṛ pandiṯ bāḏ vakẖāṇai. Bẖīṯar hoḏī vasaṯ na jāṇai. ||3||
The reason thou goest to the banks of the holy streams, that invaluable jewel is in thy mind. The Brahmans continue to read, discuss and enter into controversies, but understand not the thing, which is within.
You see, Lord’s presence can be obtained right within by going into a state of liberation; people go for pilgrimage but never realize that the precious thing is set right within us. Why it is not recognized? The futile debating habits and ego controlled mind never let the soul go to that state of mind.
ਹਉ ਮੂਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਮੁਈ ਬਲਾਇ ਓਹੁ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਮਰਤਾ ਜਾਤਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਆਇਆ
Ha▫o na mū▫ā merī mu▫ī balā▫e. Oh na mū▫ā jo rahi▫ā samā▫e. Kaho Nānak gur barahm ḏikẖā▫i▫ā. Marṯā jāṯā naḏar na ā▫i▫ā. ||4||4||
I have not died, rather my calamitous ignorance is dead. He, who is every where contained, dies not. Says Nanak, the Guru has revealed unto me the pervading Lord, and now, none seems me to die or to be born.
Look what Guru ji says about the Lord in context of us and our life. In that state of mind (being at the door of Liberation), we do not die, it’s the primal forces that die, It is about eternal Lord who manifests in us. Guru shows the Lord within, the Lord Manifests in all and never dies, neither the soul dies, having that knowledge, it is also accepted as the truth that actually soul and the manifested Lord do not die. The word” death” loses meaning if one is in that state of mind, and mind totally becomes immune to all negative effects. That is also known as union with the Lord while being alive.
 

ax0547

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Oct 20, 2008
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

Exactly - thank you thank you - you just cleared my next question as such is the conclusion I reached too, but does this mean we cease from being born again and so in reality- that is what next question is?
 

spnadmin

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

The Fools Wrangle over Flesh essay was actually written to address the Mistranslations and Misrepresentations of Bani.

Just as a side note, I would not believe ANYTHING Panthic Weekly writes.:(
Randip ji

I think you may have been responding to the first post in the thread where I used Panthic Weekly as a reference. The article is a pretty straightforward presentation of how Gurmukhi script evolved over time. The information is also for the most part consistent with other sources on the same subject. Not to my intuition in any way an article loaded with extremist propaganda. Here is the link for members who want to read the same article. Panthic Weekly: History of the Gurmukhi Script

At some point I am going to start posting some academic material in this thread --- including information about Gurmukhi script and transliterations (good or bad?)

For people who are interested in language in general and Gurmukhi in particular this article has some real fascination - from Tribune India The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Amritsar PLUS

Sangalwala Akhara’s UNIQUE HERITAGE
A treasure house of Hindi literature
[URL="http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050421/aplus.htm#2"]in Gurmukhi

[/URL]


A file picture of a fresco at the Akhara which has been lost now (right) Mahant Anantnand displays a handwritten Hindi bir in Gurmukhi script. — Photo by Rajiv Sharma

The relevance to this thread lies in the historical record covered in the article. Guru Angad Dev ji was apparently very successful in shaping a script that was "user-friendly" because it was adopted by scholars who were not Sikhs. The literature discussed in the article is related to the Bhakti movement in northern India.
 

spnadmin

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

From the link to the article-- just a sample:

A number of rare manuscripts, preserved and catalogued in a scientific way, are considered invaluable for researchers who are interested in the history of Gurmukhi script. Moreover, the manuscripts establish significant linkage of the Hindi language with the Gurmukhi script.

Though most of the linguists have failed to notice the worth of the Bhakti literature stored in its magnificent library, yet Dr H.S. Bedi, Head, Department of Hindi, Guru Nanak Dev University, describes this Akhara as “second university” of Amritsar. While the first university was established in 1969 after the name of Guru Nanak Dev, the “second university” (Sangalwala Akhara) is named after his (Guru Nanak’s) son, Sri Chand ji. Some of the students from Guru Nanak Dev University and scholars from far-flung places visit the Akhara in connection with research work.

The credit for compiling a huge collection of religious works, in Gurmukhi script, seems to be the result of several years of hard work and dedication. The great volume of 1206 folios (Gurmukhi script) was compiled in this Udasin Akhara establishment. It contains four Vedas, Upanishads, Vishnu Puran, Panch Dashi, Panch Bhasha Grantha, Vivek Sindu, Vashishta Sar, Shesh Samavad, Agyan Bodhini, Vigyan Geeta, Vichar Mala. A big manuscript of Guru Granth Sahib, Dastoor-e-alam and Sadhu Suman Chanderika are the other works attributed to Nirvanji. All are written in Gurmukhi script. The library is “enriched” with ancient literature pertaining to various religions and old manuscripts.
 

pk70

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

Exactly - thank you thank you - you just cleared my next question as such is the conclusion I reached too, but does this mean we cease from being born again and so in reality- that is what next question is?
Some scholars influenced by leftist ideology, have tried to distort Gurbani in the pretext of Guru Nanak’s no faith in transmigration. They have tried to give new meaning to words like Janam, Poorav etc. I am picking up a word that only stands for “ again”, it is called in Punjabi” bahurh( ਬਹੁੜਿ). It clarifies any doubt created by those scholars. I have started with Guru Nanak (Guru Vaak) who openly talks about it, other Mehl also say the same idea- Who achieves liberation, becomes one with Lord while alive, doesn’t take birth ever.
Here are quotes, translation is by Sant Singh Khalsa ji, it conveys the sense of the Guru Vakas so I have avoided giving commentary because it will be too long then


ਪੰਨਾ 1030, ਸਤਰ 7
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਲਹਹੁ ਘਰੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਗਰਭ ਮਝਾਰਾ ਹੇ
Gurma koj lahhu gar apnā bahu na garab majārā he. ||4||
Follow the Guru's Teachings - seek and find the home of your own self, and you shall never be consigned to the womb of reincarnation again. ||4||
ਮਃ 1
ਪੰਨਾ 419, ਸਤਰ 17
ਸਚੇ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਆਈਐ
Sace si▫o ci lā▫e bahu na ā▫ī▫ai. ||2||
Centering your consciousness on the True Lord, you shall not have to come into the world again. ||2||
ਮਃ 1
ਪੰਨਾ 598, ਸਤਰ 2
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬੰਧਨ ਤੋੜਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੇ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਗਰਭ ਮਝਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ
Sagur banḏẖan o nirāre bahu na garab majārī jī▫o.
Breaking my bonds, the True Guru has set me free, and I shall not be cast into the womb of reincarnation again.
ਮਃ 1


ਮੰਘਿਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਰਾਧਣਾ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਜਨਮੜੀਆਹ ੧੦
Mangir parab ārāḏẖaā bahu na janamī▫āh. ||10||
Those who worship and adore God in Maghar, do not suffer the cycle of reincarnation ever again. ||10||
ਮਃ 5
ਜਹ ਤੇ ਉਪਜੀ ਤਹ ਮਿਲੀ ਸਚੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸਮਾਹੁ
Jah ṯe upjī ṯah milī sacẖī parīṯ samāhu.
From where it originated, there the soul is blended again. It is absorbed in the Love of the True Lord.

ਕਰੁ ਗਹਿ ਲੀਨੀ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮਿ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਵਿਛੁੜੀਆਹੁ

Kar gėh līnī pārbarahm bahuṛ na vicẖẖuṛi▫āhu.
When the Supreme Lord God grasps someone's hand, he shall never again suffer separation from Him.(SGGS 135)

ਪੰਨਾ 136, ਸਤਰ 7http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=136&punjabi=t&id=5568#l5568
ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਾਗਰ ਤੇ ਰਖਿਅਨੁ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਜਨਮੈ ਧਾਇ
Sansār sāgar e raki▫an bahu na janmai ḏẖā▫e.
He rescues us from the world-ocean; never again do we have to run the cycle of reincarnation.
ਮਃ 5

ਹਰਿ ਧੂੜੀ ਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਈਐ ਮੈਲੁ ਗਵਾਈਐ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਖ ਲਾਥੇ
Har ḏẖūṛī nĥā▫ī▫ai mail gavā▫ī▫ai janam maraṇ ḏukẖ lāthe.
Bathing in the Lord's dust, my filth has been washed away, and the pains of birth and death have departed.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਸਦਾ ਹਦੂਰੇ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਾਥੇ
Anṯar bāhar saḏā haḏūre parmesar parabẖ sāthe.
Inwardly and outwardly, the Transcendent Lord God is ever-present, always with us.

ਮਿਟੇ ਦੂਖ ਕਲਿਆਣ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਪਾਵਾ

Mite ḏūkẖ kali▫āṇ kīrṯan bahuṛ jon na pāvā.
Suffering departs, and there is peace; singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises, one is not consigned to reincarnation again.(SGGS 453)
ਪੰਨਾ 531, ਸਤਰ 3http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=531&punjabi=t&id=23701#l23701
ਨਾਮੁ ਉਚਾਰੁ ਕਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਜੋਨੀ ਧਾਵੈ
Nām ucār kare har rasnā bahu na jonī ḏẖāvai. ||1||
He chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, with his tongue, and does not have to wander in reincarnation again. ||1||
ਮਃ 5
ਪੰਨਾ 534, ਸਤਰ 7http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=534&punjabi=t&id=23817#l23817
ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਪਨੇ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਜਨਮਿ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਰਿਓ ਰਹਾਉ
īn a▫i▫āl ba▫e parab apne bahu janam nahī māri▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
When God becomes merciful to the meek, then one does not have to suffer reincarnation, only to die again. ||1||Pause||
ਮਃ 5
ਪੰਨਾ 547, ਸਤਰ 3http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=547&punjabi=t&id=24215#l24215
ਭਜੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਰੰਗੇ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਨ ਧਾਈਐ
Baj sāḏẖsange mile range bahu jon na ḏẖā▫ī▫ai.
Joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, I lovingly remember the Lord; I shall not wander again in reincarnation.
ਮਃ 5
ਪੰਨਾ 578, ਸਤਰ 10http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=578&punjabi=t&id=25424#l25424
ਜੋ ਸਰਣਿ ਆਵੈ ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰਤਾ
Jo sara āvai gu niḏẖān pāvai so bahu janam na marā.
One who comes seeking Your Sanctuary, obtains the treasure of virtue, and does not have to enter the cycle of birth and death again.
ਮਃ 5
ਪੰਨਾ 606, ਸਤਰ 7http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=606&punjabi=t&id=26435#l26435
ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਧਿਆਇ ਤੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੁ ਰਹਾਉ
Sasanga mil ḏẖi▫ā▫e ū har har bahu na āva. Rahā▫o.
Join the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and meditate on the Lord, Har, Har; you shall not have to come and go in reincarnation again. ||Pause||
ਮਃ 4 -
ਹਰਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਗਾਈਐ
Har ḏin rain kīrṯan gā▫ī▫ai.
Singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises day and night,

ਬਹੁੜਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਈਐ
Bahuṛ na jonī pā▫ī▫ai. ||3||
I shall not be consigned to reincarnation again(623)
ਪੰਨਾ 783, ਸਤਰ 14http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=783&punjabi=t&id=33437#l33437
ਤਹ ਜਨਮ ਨ ਮਰਣਾ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ ਬਹੁੜਨੀਐ +ਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਜ
Ŧah janam na marā āvaā bahu na pā▫ī▫ai jonī▫ai.
There is no birth or death there, no coming or going, and no entering into the womb of reincarnation again.
ਮਃ 5
ਪੰਨਾ 1030, ਸਤਰ 7http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1030&punjabi=t&id=44048#l44048

ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਸੋਈ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਵਣਾ
Jo jo japai so▫ī vadbāgī bahu na jonī pāvā. ||6||
Whoever meditates on Him is very fortunate; he is not consigned to reincarnation again. ||6||
ਮਃ 5 (1086)
ਪੰਨਾ 1096, ਸਤਰ 13http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1096&punjabi=t&id=47080#l47080
ਨਾਨਕ ਸਿਝਿ ਇਵੇਹਾ ਵਾਰ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਜਨਮੜਾ
Nānak sij ivehā vār bahu na hovī janamā. ||1||
O Nanak, be successful this time, and you shall not be reincarnated again. ||1||
ਮਃ 5
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

Veer and Veer -- With respect and admiration for both of you -- please keep the thread on the topic of translations and transliteration controversies. Do not let it migrate to the subject of reincarnation unless a translation is a matter of controversy. :)

It would be good to focus on this kind of issue,

They have tried to give new meaning to words like Janam, Poorav etc. I am picking up a word that only stands for “ again”, it is called in Punjabi” bahurh( ਬਹੁੜਿ). I

Thank you.
 

Randip Singh

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

what about panthic weekly?
Panthic Weekly was mentioned in the first post and it parades itself as some kind of unbiased Sikh publication. It is infact a poodle for the AKJ and is extremely biased and poorly written.
 

spnadmin

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Re: Translations and Transliterations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Issues and Controvers

I agree with the "poodle" part. Very funny! But that article was not so bad. What do you say? ;)
 

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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

This Shabad is found on Page 793 of Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, in Raag Suhi. The Shabad here is accompanied by Manmohan Singh's translation. As is typical of Bhagat Kabir Ji, he urges the human...

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