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Translation By Swarn Singh Bains

swarn

SPNer
Dec 23, 2013
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i have hard time finding the posts. i can only find the ones which come on my e mail. here i will explain the writing balancing etc. question here is if u know about these subjects, then it will be useful note if not then like any other critic will come and ask again. There are four parts to the compositon. 1, writing, 2 kaasad or balancing, 3 composing, 4 singing.
other than the gurbani as the sikhs claim there is no other good composition which has been written, balanced , composed and sung by the same person. The sikh belief is that the seven gurus who wrote sggs knew all and did everything. let me say here when satta and balwand refused to sing in congregation then guru arjun dev je sang himself in simple tunes. Next there were 35 other writers who wrote in sggs their writing is also balanced and composed in all the 30 or 31 classical tunes. does it mean that guru Arjun dev jee did that especially when he himself sang in simple tunes in the congregation. it points out to someone else. next part of balancing is arabic; it implies one starts singing and if there is a short fall for the continuation of the tune it is adjusted by the kaasad. Thatg is how the sggs is being sung from ages on. the indian balancing is the count of lagaan and magraans which i will not go into it. doing so the singing is like the saa re gaama etc. if someone thinks that sggs is ever sung like this then i might be wrong. here I want to say that if u have any underzstanding of this system then we can go further otherwise it is just curiosity. so long brohter. if u want some spirituality then read my heer sayal either on APNA gurmukhi books or kitaabaan . spiritualy is everywhere even in heer there is spirituality.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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[Swarn Singh ji I am losing you with every post you are making.
.....
other than the gurbani as the sikhs claim there is no other good composition which has been written, balanced , composed and sung by the same person.
Your statement as underlined is totally absurd. Your generalizations are not deserving of your fellow spners. Let me say, little or none of your conjecture applies to the spners I know at spn.
The sikh belief is that the seven gurus who wrote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji knew all and did everything.
Where are you picking up such. It is what can essentially be termed as nonsense. I don't know where you grew up and became part of such beliefs that led to your dis-enchantment with Sikhs and such generalizations.
if u want some spirituality then read my heer sayal either on APNA gurmukhi books or kitaabaan . spiritualy is everywhere even in heer there is spirituality.
Free publicity is not what this forum is about. Make yourself aware of spn terms of service. So to be spiritual I need to read your books :mundaviolin:

I am so saddened by your posturing. Please reply specifically to posts as people do want to learn and share and not be spoken down to.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

swarn

SPNer
Dec 23, 2013
13
9
ambarsaria jee. s s a. thank u for ur comments. it is nice to point out the faults of a person otherwise he or she cannot understand. i have a question. have u ever written anything or just criticize?
 

Ishna

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May 9, 2006
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Swarn Ji, are you going to acknowledge any of the nice things people have had to say about your translation, or are you going to perseverate over the 'criticism' only?

This thread is about much more than criticising your effort and it would be good of you to recognise that.
 

swarn

SPNer
Dec 23, 2013
13
9
actualy i am not well versed with what is going on. there was one person who asked me about the balancing of the sggs. But there comes a person calling himself as Ambarsaria, who keeps on calling me names , bad things. He is not giving any logic or reasoning but keeps saying, what ever i am writing is nonsense. sorry about that ishna jee if my post has hurt u . i do have difficulty in locating the posts. the administrator puts some of them on my e m ail that is where i get them.
 

Ishna

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Swarn Ji

Oh okay, maybe you are missing some of the posts from your screen then. You can try clicking on this link which will take you to the whole thread: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-granth-darpan/38719-translation-by-swarn-singh-bains.html

Ambarsaria Ji has been sharing his understanding of what you've written, and is expressing frustration as you are coming across as somewhat hostile. I'm sure we'd all enjoy exchanging views and learning together, but I'm put on the defensive when I perceive some of your comments as being somewhat aggressive.

It may be that I'm not understanding your language. Hopefully with the above link to give you a view of the entire thread, you may see more 'balance' in the thread and engage with us openly.

Gurufateh
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Swarn Singh ji I recognize you are new at our forum. It belongs to all. I try to be very specific. I

started to read your translation. I requested your clarification on your interpretation/translation of mool matar. I have slightly different understanding and I stated so and requested you to specifically clarify or correct me.

I want to be corrected as I want to understand better.
... But there comes a person calling himself as Ambarsaria, who keeps on calling me names , bad things. He is not giving any logic or reasoning but keeps saying, what ever i am writing is nonsense. ....
I have not called any names I have responded to your denigrative generalizations and your statements about Guru ji being illiterate who wrote for illiterates. Sometimes same words can be taken by different people in different ways.

I have no qualms about the proposition that Guru ji wrote for the common man and not some elite like in Sanskrit type compositions in Hinduism. Guru ji for me adopted a style of teaching and it has nothing to do with illiteracy. Guru ji never stated that they know all and they even went to great lengths to state that the knowing of all of creator is a pursuit in failure but learning more all the time is noble.

From my vantage point I will challenge generalizations or what I consider to be inappropriate language. That is how I am and I am willing to accept the rebuttals in kind.

Sat Sri Akal and I will appreciate if you respond in specifics to my post that I remind with the following quick reference,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-...lation-by-swarn-singh-bains-2.html#post194616
 
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mandemeet

SPNer
Apr 5, 2012
37
106
S. Swarn Bains ji.
Kindly read first your own words


“Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written by the illiterate people. they did not know grammar as well. I am illiterate and i have translated the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for the illiterate. Although grammar was created by Paanini an indian. But Punjab was always under the influence of Persians. Most of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written by sikh gurus the Punjabis.
For the grammar scholars. There are two forms of balancing in the east. The Indian and the Arabic. I believe that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written in Arabic format which is proved in the balancing of it
The sikh belief is that the seven gurus who wrote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji knew all and did everything”. Swarn bains


Now please read what Ambarsaria ji has written


“Your comments are inappropriate. Only a literate can judge others to be illiterate and by your own statements you classify yourself to be illiterate.The poetry of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji written aligned to complex musical and specific ragas is not the work of illiterates. Your statements are nothing more than defensive which is very unfortunate as you have done good work from little I have read of your translation -. Ambarsaria”

Ambarsaria ji is absolutely true. Tragedy is this that you fail to understand how many compact verses are there, which still confuse very fine scholars even today what to speak of you and I. And, you call them illiterate!By the way, who is literate? Only those who go to universities! Amazing. A simple person can see application of grammar in the Gurbani and you think it is only for brains. What kind of reasoning is this! I held high regard for you, but it is slipping away as I go through your posts filled with ego injured behaviour.



Ishna ji writes
“Swarn Ji, are you going to acknowledge any of the nice things people have had to say about your translation, or are you going to perseverate over the 'criticism' only?
This thread is about much more than criticising your effort and it would be good of you to recognise that –Ishna ji”.



Ishna ji is trying to wake you up and to pick up positivity instead of feeding your ego, if I am not wrong..
Spnadmn ji have asked you some questions, you dont consider them important, because you are more concerned about your criticism.
You ask Ambarsaria ji that what he has written; does it mean only that person can put questions to you who wrote a book or so?
I conclude it is time wasting to discuss anything with you; it is not just worth.
Wish you good luck.
Regards
Mandedeep:winkingkaur:
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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A certain Prophet is widely acknowledged as "illiterate"
( He was because he didnt write a single line)
A certain Holy text is written in Arabic..and Balanced the Arabic way
(whatever that is )
SUFI element and its importance in being SIKH..

1. Our Guru sahibaans are being termed "illiterate" When they clearly are NOT becasue they WROTE their GURBANI themsleves and also preserved the Gurbani of Bhagats that came before them. An illetrate person cannot write anything.

2. The SGGS has compositions of more than 35 authors from various regions - geographic and lingual, come from various economic backgrounds, castes, etc. YET the entire 1429 Pages of SGGS RHYME as ONE..in total and complete rhythm. ALL the compositors are EK JYOT in multiple human bodies.

3. SUFI....and the assertion that all SIKHS must be SUFI...???


ALL the above "clues" lead and point in a direction in which many Threads have led to in the past...I leave it to the readers of SPN to add 2+2 and see whats the answer. Tread Carefully....all is not what it seems..
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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a sikh is not a sikh if he is not a sufi. This might perplex the administrator, because he only knows that much.

Someone should have told the first master this, he could have saved so much time and energy and just been a Sufi, makes you wonder why he bothered with something different

How about a Sikh is not a Sikh if he is not an uhmm SIKH?
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
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Jul 4, 2004
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All this 400++ years the SGGS..has remained relatively undisturbed...even the SIKHS themsleves hardly bothered to dig deep into its depths...they were content with wrapping in rumallahs and bowing before the Guru...NOW..its the Age of the Internet..Info EXPLOSION..the SGGS lies "exposed" to various others..and many many among these are curious to know...many are curious to PRY and see IF there are nay "chinks" in the armour so to speak..and find faults..misinterpret..mistranslate..throw wild ideas around..just as Donald Trump long ago translated the SGGS BUT with the MOTIVE of proving it INFERIOR tot he Bible...now a days there are many who seek to prove the SGGS..is this and that...Sikhs must be on their GUARD to thwart such attempts..seek the GURU yourself..so you are strong to face those who seek to IMPOSE their version of the "GURU" on YOU !! To some the GURU is FOR the illiterate,...BY the Illiterate..OF the Illiterate.... with no grammar, written in Arabic style..and with Sufi colours..and that road leads to..why not turn towards the original..illiterate, Arabic Sufi colored book penned by the original illiterate..
BEST defense is LEARN the GURU YOURSELF..speak to Him one on ONE..on a daily basis...you will find the Guru speaks to YOU..in YOUR Language..at your speed...
:happysingh:
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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Swarn Singh Ji,
Perhaps you could start by addressing the questions raised by Ambarsariya Ji regarding your translation of the Mool Mantar.

Every question raised, every question answered, every question sidestepped, only adds to the sum total of knowledge that each of us reading can add to our artillery, Swarn Singhji, you have done great seva in your work, huge seva, but that seva is not over yet, the final seva is being able to provide answers to questions, this is not about winning or losing, it is about educating the panth, Hopefully Creator and Creation will bestow upon you the grace to continue educating, continue learning, you are among like minded folk here, we all wish to learn, to share, welcome..
 

swarn

SPNer
Dec 23, 2013
13
9
i have no bad feelings for anything. no side stepping but i do not have the questions raised by ambarsaria. so please put the question again and i will try to answer to the best of my ability. what we are talking now on is; that the mind fights the mind to conquor the mind and become divine
 

swarn

SPNer
Dec 23, 2013
13
9
i have one more question; ei i do not know how to find your posts on spn . instead some how someone is putting it on my e mail and that is not the dcorrect place for me to go to. please guide me amicably so that i can get in line with rest of the devotees.
 

Ishna

Writer
SPNer
May 9, 2006
3,261
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Swarn Ji

Please start accessing this website directly and not via your email. Please type www.sikhphilosophy.net into your browser and you will arrive at our main page.

To Access This Thread
  • From the main page, click on the Guru Granth Darpan forum. [Pic 1]
  • Scroll down a bit until you find this thread, and click on it. [Pic 2]
  • Scroll through the pages of the thread using the numbers at the top of the thread, very similar to the SikhNet forum where you and I have spoken previously, a long time ago.
To Stop Posts Going To Your Email
  • Click Options, then Edit Options. [Pic 3]
  • Scroll down to the 'Default Thread Subscription Mode' and choose either 'no email notification' or 'do not subscribe' from the dropdown list. [Pic 4]
  • Scroll to the very bottom and click 'Save Changes'.
 

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Original

Writer
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Jan 9, 2011
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i think i found the way to communicate on spn. so if the gentleman who wanted to talk about japu jee sahib please, ask your question and let us discuss it

Dear Sir

Interesting remarks, particularly Sufi and your Heer. It'll be beneficial to all if you were to elaborate on Sufism and explain how it is connected to Sikhism because Baba Nanak was inspired by Baba Farid Ji's literature.

Much obliged !

Kind regards
 

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