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The Five K's, Why

Amarpal

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Tony Ji,

I explain to you why we Sikhs beep Kesh and Beard. The reason and rational of doing it has many two layers – First needed for spirituality and second needed for survival - collectively they form the basis for having Kesh

(i) Needed for spirituality: As I have said in many of my earlier posts, humans are not worldly beings trying to be spiritual, but are spiritual beings lost under the dust of worldly pleasures. When the person is spiritual, she or he lives in harmony with nature. Kesh and Beard is a natural growth. All spiritual and divine humans, we know of, had Kesh and the men among them had Beard too.

The question comes why to ask people to keep Kesh and Beard when they have not yet spiritually evolved. The question is right, it must be answered.

In my earlier posts I have stated that imitation is the first stage of assimilation. It is by this way we learnt to speak our mother’s language and learnt to walk. This tells me that even if try to imitate living in harmony with nature, over a period of time it will become natural to us, a respect for nature will dawn and that will enhance spirituality in us.

Guru Sahib knew all this and hence he asked us to keep Kesh and Beard.

(ii) Need for survival: The new philosophy enunciated by Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and implemented by his nine successors was affecting those who were already established in the old system. The new Philosophy was under threat; all its followers were being subject to duress, hurdles being put in the functioning of their institutions. Physical repression of its followers was not yet started. Hence Guru Sahibans resisted it through peaceful means.

This repression over a period of time became physical, Sikhs were not secure. To kill the upcoming Sikhi the Sikhs were being killed. At this stage Guru Gobind Singh devised ways to provide the needed protection. He felt the need to tie all the Sikhs in one bond as number gives strength. He designed the Khalsa Panth with Sikhi as its Philosophy.

This was necessary. Guru Sahib knew that the relations between individuals get governed by etiquettes and ethics and the relations between groups are regulated through politics – individual cannot stand to the pressure of a group; that was the conditions of the Sikhs. By that time Sikhs were a virtual group by themselves but need physical realization. Design of Khalsa Panth was the solution given by Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji to face the challenges posed by the social order.

This Panth and its philosophy (Sikhi) needed to be protected against brutal repression – ‘History of Sikhs’ will tell you all that our earlier generations faced and news will tell you how we are enduring it even today; a feeling of security had to be given to the followers.

How do you do that? When the entity is fixed and not mobile then one puts a fence around it to ward off the intruders (here the ideas from other philosophies). When the entity is mobile you design a uniform for them to be identified as done for armies and teams. Siri Guru Gobind Singh gave his Sikhs a uniform. It was necessary to compensate for the lack of numbers of Sikhs as compared to other prevailing social orders. Guru Sahib knew that if the uniform for Sikh is very conspicuous it has the potential to give a feeling of strength in numbers and thus some what compensate for the lack of numbers. This conspicuous identity will also help Sikhs to identify each other and thus collect to function as a group when under duress.

Kesh, which were kept by all our Guru Sahibans, now became part of all the Sikhs. Thus the Kesh became identity of ‘The Sikhs’

I have Kesh and I advise all the Sikh to do so.

I also want Sikh institutions (please do not depend on SGPC) to fund research and development of ‘Hair Fixer’ which will help the Beard to set in say ten minutes and will not dissolve unless warm water is not used for this purpose. This is to ensure that the Beard remains set and is not affected by perspiration or rain. I know most of the Sikhs who trim their beard initially do not cut their hair. Those who trim do so to reduce time to get ready. It is same reason for which working women in the western world cut their short.

With this I close the post.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Guru Piayare Amarpal Singh Ji,

THANK you for an absolutely brilliant post ( as usual --!in the context of the Sukhmani posts series!!).
May Guru Ji keep you in the best of Health Ji.
I have been using the Sukhmani sahib series as the jumping board for past few months...and your love for Gurbani/Gurmatt seeps through in torrents.

Chardeekalla
:happy::welcome:
 

Amarpal

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Dear Mohinder Sahni Ji,

You are mistaken.

I was alway dressed in turban with Kesh and beard ever since it was given to me by nature and age. This is going to be with me till 'The Sat' calls me.

I am the same Amarpal Singh with whom you had interacted when I was sharing my understanding on Japji Sahib.

With love and respect

Amarpal Singh
 

tony

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Dear Armapal j
Thank you very much for your post, I agree with you entirely on the reason Guru ji Formed the Kalsa panth and also in the fact that a uniform was needed for them, Hence the need for Kesh, How ever if I may ask, Did Guru ji expect every Sikh irrespective of their individual abilities to Fight wear a uniform, One must take into account not only physical ability but also their mental ability, not all have the ability to defend themselfs even when armed. If a person puts on a uniform he then automatically becomes a target, no ability to fight = needless loss of life and thats contrary to Gurus teaching. So do you believe thats what Guru ji wanted, Sikhs to die needlessly, some people serve an army in other ways better and in those cases there is no need for a uniform. I personally cant imagine Guru ji saying that those who cant fight arent worthy to be Sikhs especially after his father Died for those who couldnt/ wouldnt fight. So to say that those who refuse to wear the Kalsa uniform arent real/ Proper Sikhs is unfair. In my own opinion Khalsa = Sikh army, Sikhism = journey towards enlightenment/ spirituality, or Khalsa/ army = the need for a uniform, Sikhism/ spiritual journey = no requirement for outward identity, Both can reach the same end but they tread slightly different paths to reach it. A simple way to look at it would be to say those that dont wear the uniform of the Indian army arent accepted as Real/ proper/ full Indians. the first part of your post says that Humans are spiritual beings lost under a dust of wordly pleasures, Agreed. and that spiritual beings live in harmony with nature, Agreed. the problem is that in england the majority do not work towards living in harmony with nature quite the opposite, The vast majority work hard get money buy big car big house and help to destroy the world with excessive carbon emissions, No person Sikh or other wise can justify the use of a big car when one only one person is in it, no person can justify heating and lighting a house for four when only two live in it, I could go on with many more examples but I think that we get the picture. May be instead of urgeing the development of beard fixers which arent in any way natural, may be the Sikhi institutions should be explaining and teaching Sikhs of the damage they are contributing towards the destruction of this planet with this open show of wealth.
Btw before anyone shouts jealousy I have a 3 bedroom house which is sufficient for my family and also have 3 cars, 1 large for the whole family and 2 small low emission cars for single person use ie travelling two and from work. if the need arises to travel to town we use public transport.
The bit about Sikhs who trim there beard to speed up getting ready not sure if you agree or not, please clarify.
And still the question of where is it written not answered.
Any way thank you for your post it has been very helpful in showing your personal view and in no way really puts down others. I hope my response has helped you understand mine.
Respectfully
Tony
 

singhbj

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These videos were posted by Singhbj on a separate thread. Each one of them has relevance to parts of this discussion. You can also view them on the original thread. Thank you Singhbj ji


Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Please see these video's

YouTube - TAKE AMRIT BAPTISIM- SIKH RELIGION


YouTube - BANA - Talk in Punjabi with Sadasat Simran Singh


YouTube - The Purpose of Hair


History and Significance of 'Sikh Rehat Maryada': JusPunjabi Interviews GS Lamba

Thanks

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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What about that quote that everyone throws around, attributing to Guru Gobind Singh?
Rehit pyari mujhko Sikh pyara nahin
I like the rehit more than I like Sikhs.

This is meant to indicate the importance of rehit to Sikhs. Rehit would include the 5 Ks, etc.
OK fair enough but let's look at it with a different perspective.
Assuming Guru Sahib said that. If the rehit was really THAT important to him, why did he not write it down on paper?
He had all this time writing down the long stories in Dasam Granth. I mean Guru Nanak lived to an older age and was practically into this "business", even he did not write as much as Guru Gobind Singh did in Dasam Granth. SGGS is what like 1400 pages and includes banis of like 40 people. Dasam Granth written by one person, is longer....

This person who could write this huge granth with endless stories, could NOT write the rehit down??? (and perhaps its imporatance)
It seems a bit fishy to me... :wah:
 

BhagatSingh

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I have QUOTED the Single Line KESO KESO KOOKEAH...by Kabir Ji...as this Tuk genuinely stands alone...as the meaning is crystal clear... KESO is the LORD with Long Flowing KESH..and KOOKEAH means SHOUT out at the top of ones voice so thats heard all over. I am naturally curious that NONE of the GURUS, BHAGATS have DESCRIBED their BELOVED as "BALDY....shining Domed...chilkdah khoparr...Lord with the receeding forehead...Lord with the Horsetaill..punky hair..etc.etc. NOT ONE such "description"....i mean at least one should have mentioned...the LORD as such..( Never mins what message/etc behind the tuk/description...Lots of Brahmins at that time went BALD or had punky hair styles !! In fact many JOKES exist about these Brahmins and their POOCH on TOP !! No offense meant towards baldies punkys etc.
I thought I had answered that.
Anyways here is that answer again: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24540-the-five-ks-why-2.html#post98163
scroll down a bit if you dont see it straightaway
 

Amarpal

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Dear Tony Ji,

All honest questions must be answered truthfully. I will attempt to do the same here.

(i) Your question:Did Guru Ji expected every Sikh irrespective of their individual abilities to fight wear a uniform?”

My response: Even Doctors in Army wear uniform though they do not fight nor the enemy knowingly attacks them.

Elaboration: When the fight is on, all available resources are used. Injured and elderly are assigned works within their capabilities to further the cause of for which one is fighting. All do not have to go to the front; there are many other works to be done, including cooking meals for those who are at the front, taking care of the injured. Yet all wear uniforms. No one will ever say if you are not fighting or to strong enough to fight you are not a solider, there are even clerks in army wearing uniform.

During Guru Ka Baag agitation, during British rule, it was men who went in and faced the sticks of police, when these men fell, it was the women who removed them and gave them first aid and helped their movement to hospital. An American press reporter who was witness to what was happening sent a telephonic dispatch which said ‘I am feeling that Jesus is being crucified. These men have swords on their person but they are not using them even to defend themselves, such is their conviction to the cause of non-violent agitation. This is shown in the film Gandhi you can see it. Later British relented and handed over the possession of Baag to Sikhs. Gandhi alive at that time sent a telegram ‘The first battle of freedom has been won, congratulations’. In this there event men and women of all age groups participated. It was a battle, yes, British used weapons (Lathis i.e. sticks) but the Sikhs did not use and type of force, yet the Sikhs won, because of the conviction that their faith gave them. These were men and women with Beard and Kesh with turbans. This is what we learned from the lives of our Guru Sahibans.

Sikhs are not escapists - they do not shed away from taking responsibilities. The conspicuous identity is given to prevent it from happening. We are not trouble makers but defenders of human rights of all irrespective of others religion. Remember we are, what we are, is because of the sacrifice made by people with conviction of past generations. If they were escapists then no one would have been there to elevate the sagging spirit of people of India. To face odds with conviction is the way of great who change the world.

I will not be judgmental or say what is fair and what is not. I do not do it.

(ii) Your opinion: In my own opinion Khalsa = Sikh army, Sikhism = journey towards enlightenment/ spirituality, or Khalsa/ army = the need for a uniform, Sikhism/ spiritual journey = no requirement for outward identity, Both can reach the same end but they tread slightly different paths to reach it.

My response: In a democratic society like ours one is free to an opinion. However, I wish to say that I do not agree with your opinion.

Elaboration: Please ponder over the dual concept that Khalsa Panth has i.e. the concept of Miri and the concept of Piri. Khalsa Panth and its values and ways provide for both. Just spiritual elevation is not the intent of Sikh religion. Please keep in mind Sikh religion is life affirming religion. It is unlike most of the other religions which are life negating. As I understand, it will be extremely difficult for individuals to understand Sikhi who see Sikh religion through the prism of some other religion or who is a Sikh without convictions in the faith.

(iii) Problem in England:the problem is that in England --------“

My response: Tony Ji, this problem of more, bigger. Better; I, my and mine; is the dust of materialistic living. It is not the problem of people in England alone; it is here in India and in Punjab too.

It is the ways of Sikhi that tells us the way to come out of it; live a full life of house holder; contribute handsomely to the society and yet evolve spiritually.

In my opinion you are on the correct path. Only in an active mind questions will arise. Continue this them never conclude that you have got the ultimate answer. As to progress in life, learning from experience and scripture, you will get enriched. Things will look differently to you as the learnig intensifies. This is the way to evolve.

With this I close the post.

I think we have discussed enough.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

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AAd Ji,
what I mean is that its simple "instruction"..no other meaning...

kbIr kyso kyso kUkIAY n soeIAY Aswr ]
kabeer kaeso kaeso kookeeai n soeeai asaar ||
Kabeer, chant the Name of the Beautifully-haired Lord; do not sleep unaware.
The second line Completes the idea...
rwiq idvs ky kUkny kbhU ky sunY pukwr ]223]
raath dhivas kae kookanae kabehoo kae sunai pukaar ||223||
Chanting His Name night and day, the Lord will eventually hear your call. ||223||

My point is the "Name" given to the Creator by Kabir Ji is DESCRIPTIVE....KESO means that with Long Flowing Beautiful Hair..nothing more nothing less.

ANd ALL OTHER Guurs/bhagats always mention their Creator/Beloved/Lord...as the One with Long..FLOWING..BEAUTIFUL HAIR.
So this is not a case of the "TUK" being isolated and taken out of CONTEXT because the following tuks/shabd prove otherwise. Here there is NO such out of context/twist/misinterperting.....just plain simple and clear INSTRUCTION from kabeer JI.
This is why NO ONE quotes this TUK...it doesnt serve their purpose of NEGATING HAIR .

Thanks...

Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let me offer my 2 cent worth. The facts of our Gurus lives stand on their own. Turbans were only used by the nobles and our Gurus defied that. Long hair was mainly linked with the sages and wise men. Our Gurus defied that too and ofcourse the followers must have followed the same to emulate our Gurus.

Now, regarding Kabir ji's salok and other tuks in Gurbani about Ik Ong Kaar having long hair is part of the poetic imagery and allegory by the writers in their beautiful poetry. The reason they used this imagery in their beautiful poetry was because all the Hindu Gods had long hair and so did Jesus and Moses if one comes to think of it. Nothing more.

The Moolmanter describes Ik Ong Kaar as formless, gendelress, timeless Creative Energy. Nothing hairy about that.

No offense intended.

Tejwant Singh
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Tewant Singh ji

Kabir is talking about Ram who is always shown with long hair. Just look at how he starts that shabad.
Scroll up on the previous page and I have a link to some quotes like these, with a sentence explaining why it is like that...
 

japjisahib04

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Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let me offer my 2 cent worth. The facts of our Gurus lives stand on their own. Turbans were only used by the nobles and our Gurus defied that. Long hair was mainly linked with the sages and wise men. Our Gurus defied that too and ofcourse the followers must have followed the same to emulate our Gurus.

Now, regarding Kabir ji's salok and other tuks in Gurbani about Ik Ong Kaar having long hair is part of the poetic imagery and allegory by the writers in their beautiful poetry. The reason they used this imagery in their beautiful poetry was because all the Hindu Gods had long hair and so did Jesus and Moses if one comes to think of it. Nothing more.

The Moolmanter describes Ik Ong Kaar as formless, gendelress, timeless Creative Energy. Nothing hairy about that. No offense intended. Tejwant Singh
Tejwant Ji,

So as per your 2 cent understanding, we must make correction in His perfection and shave off as muslim make circumcision. But as many times you cut the hair, it grows again. On the contrary the one which does not grow again, i.e. circumcision Guru sahib warns, 'saabat soorat dastar sira'. Please read the whole sabd and judge by yourselves.

Best regards
Sahni Mohinder

Mohinder sahni
 

Tejwant Singh

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Respected Gyani Jio
Thanks for nice views

Let me share an example that proves that Guru Nanak wore bana( dress) obviously he doesn’t criticize bana but hypocrisy of people hidden behind bana ( Those Guru Vaakas that criticize hypocrisy are often ignorantly used against Sikh-bana by some Sikhs who are against it). I would support it with an example
Read Sidh gosht very seriously not for a count, you will find crystal clear Guru Nanak's admission that once with a reason he wore a Hermit- bana ; When first time Guru ji met yogi, he was wearing that Bana but when they met him in Batala( Punjab), Guru ji was in a family- man- dress. So Yogi asks Guru Nanak by reminding him of his hermit- bana, here it is
SGGS 939
ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਗ੍ਰਿਹੁਤਜਿਓਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਕਿਸੁਕਾਰਣਿਇਹੁਭੇਖੁਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]Kis kāraṇ garihu ṯaji▫o uḏāsī.[/FONT]Kis kāraṇ ih bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: For what reason did you forsake home to become hermit? For what reason did you adopt that dress[/FONT]?[/FONT]

Guru Ji answers those questions[/FONT]
ਗਰਮੁਖਿਖੋਜਤਭਏਉਦਾਸੀ[/FONT]॥[/FONT]ਦਰਸਨਕੈਤਾਈਭੇਖਨਿਵਾਸੀ[/FONT]
Gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ bẖa▫e uḏāsī.[/FONT]Ḏarsan kai ṯā▫ī bẖekẖ nivāsī.[/FONT]
In Essence: In search of Gurmukhas I became hermit, to see them (meet personally) I adopted that dress (of Hermit)”[/FONT]
No wonder Tenth Master has given Bana to the Sikhs for a reason because there is nothing wrong with Bana who cannot wear it, its fine but they should refrain from criticizing it or those who can wear it (and do) by saying it doesn’t bring spirituality and to support their ignorance, they shouldn’t distort Gurbani.[/FONT]
Thanks.:)[/FONT]
Regards[/FONT]
G Singh[/FONT]

Pk70 ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for choosing 2 partial verses ( half of each verse) to express your viewpoint from the Shabad which has total of 73. Would you be kind enough to share the RAHAO verse of this post? We all know that RAHAO is the nectar of the whole Shabad and it gives us the main idea what this Shabad is all about. The rest of the verses of any Shabad compliment RAHAO. As urged by Gyani ji and many others, that all of us who express our viewpoints with the help of Gurbani, must give the complete Shabad and especially share the meaning of RAHAO.

So , my request to you with your vast Gurmat knowledge is to shine some Gurmat light on the RAHAO and share with us the true message of our Guru in this Shabad. As the Shabad is very long it can also be divided into diferent posts. Just a suggestion.

Thanks and waiting for your Gurmat enlightenment.

Tejwant Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

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Tejwant Ji,

So as per your 2 cent understanding, we must make correction in His perfection and shave off as muslim make circumcision. But as many times you cut the hair, it grows again. On the contrary the one which does not grow again, i.e. circumcision Guru sahib warns, 'saabat soorat dastar sira'. Please read the whole sabd and judge by yourselves.

Best regards
Sahni Mohinder

Mohinder sahni

Mohinder Sahni ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please do not distort what I said. I did not say nor implied anything what you are talking about. I have no idea where you got the above from except from your own fertile mind. Please read my post again.I did not mention any Shabad in my post but talked about the poetic imagery and allegory of this beautiful Gurbani. Nothing more.

Please let me know if you disagree with the description mentioned in Mool manter of Ik Ong Kaar.

Tejwant Singh
 
Dear Singh JI
Thank you for your post but you seem to think that I'm only asking about hair, I'd also like to know why about the rest, Why you keep them and how they help you in every day life please.

One at a time Tony.


You say that I cut my hair for individuality ego reasons but the reasons are no different to yours, Both are about identity yours and mine that is, A sikh uses hair to say an individual is a Sikh, As a punk uses his hair. A skin head uses his or lack of hair, all are a statement of what they are, all are to say that the individual doesn't conform to the norm, to the socially acceptable.

This would be true, but for one thing you are missing. This one thing is so obvious, so I don't uderstand how someone can miss it. I FOLLOW the Guru. THE Tenth Master. And what do you FOLLOW, your mind; ego, individuality, Manmat.

Guru Sahib said keep hair uncut and I do it.

The day I start cutting it, which will be never, but just for example sake, the day I start cutting it like you do then I would be a manmat (self-willed)

Thanks for writing Tony ji.
 

tony

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Dear Amarpal ji
Thank you for your post and the kind comments at the end. said in the true spirit of Sikhism. My journey is still in the infant stage comparable with that of the average 10 yr old brought up in a Sikhi house old or probaly not that advanced, still at the but why stage, it is with the likes of yourself here on SPN that I'm learning (no father/ mother to ask). Thank you for your patience.
Thank you Singhbj ji two of the videos wherent much use to myself as i dont speak panjabi, the first said what i already know to take amrit when ready. the third says that hair is part of the body and you need to be in touch with your body, Agree entirely. Problem, Guru jis and that all of them say to look after the body and keep it in good condition, How am I supposed to take note of someone talking of being in tune with his body when he clearly doesnt look after his , Obviously not it touch with his own body. Case of man preaching what he cant practise, the classic Turban and five K's is enough, a lazy approach to Sikhism and an obvious over indulger. Just a personal opinion as a personal trainer. No offence meant to yourself and if the Gentleman in the video would like advice on his physical condition I would be glad to offer it free of charge, Go's for any one on the forum.
Thank you Tejwant ji your two cents worth often adds up to a lot more.
Respect for all
Tony
 

pk70

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Pk70 ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for choosing 2 partial verses ( half of each verse) to express your viewpoint from the Shabad which has total of 73. Would you be kind enough to share the RAHAO verse of this post? We all know that RAHAO is the nectar of the whole Shabad and it gives us the main idea what this Shabad is all about. The rest of the verses of any Shabad compliment RAHAO. As urged by Gyani ji and many others, that all of us who express our viewpoints with the help of Gurbani, must give the complete Shabad and especially share the meaning of RAHAO.

So , my request to you with your vast Gurmat knowledge is to shine some Gurmat light on the RAHAO and share with us the true message of our Guru in this Shabad. As the Shabad is very long it can also be divided into diferent posts. Just a suggestion.

Thanks and waiting for your Gurmat enlightenment.

Tejwant Singh


I beg to differ with your theory of “Rahao” here. Some time I wonder what do you think when you ask such questions. Any one even the one who is just a beginner can understand that the quotes I have given are questions and answers. A question is asked and an answer is provided. The Rahao gave in this bani has nothing to do with the process of questioning in particular. My post is limited to that question asked in context of Bana and Guru ji’s admission obviously proves that Guru ji wore that Bana, if he did why would he speak against Bana? The truth remains about that intact. Rahao inserts Guru ji’s own views about Him in Sidhgost( that’s why it’s one time only in the beginning). What I have given are not a partial verses as per your theory riddled with your own assumption that points at me. These two Guru Vaakas stand alone due to the contest of the question and given answer. Just for information that is why there is no “Rahao” in process of questioning and answering.
The Rahao comes only one time in the beginning of Sidhgost, here it is
ਕਿਆ ਭਵੀਐ ਸਚਿ ਸੂਚਾ ਹੋਇ [/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੋਇ ॥[/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਰਹਾਉ [/FONT]॥[/FONT]
Ki▫ā bẖavī▫ai sacẖ sūcẖā ho▫e.[/FONT] Sācẖ sabaḏ bin mukaṯ na ko▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.[/FONT]
What is the good of wandering about? it is through the True Name, that the man is rendered pure.[/FONT] Without the True Name, No one is emancipated[/FONT].[/FONT] (Tr by S Mamohan Singh Ji)

These Guru Vakas have nothing to do with the question Yogi asks Guru ji and the answer Guru ji gives in context of Bana. Both question and answer indicate about History.( That’s why Dr Sahib Singh too mentions the history while interpreting this part)
Thanks
Regards
 

tony

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nottingham england
Dear Singh ji
You say you follow the tenth Guru ji . two questions when did he tell you this, where did you see his Hukam. I have asked this many times but as yet you still havent answered honestly. I do as my mind tells me and that is also how I came to choose Sikhism, So as to your logic to choose to be a Sikh is manmat, this means that only those who are Sikh from birth can ever truly be a Sikh, It would also be my own choice as all on the forum have said as to when the time is right for me to take Amrit, Again this would be a manmat decision. I might follow my own mind but it is better than blindly following without knowledge of why. The SGGS clearly states that your body and hair do not follow you and to keep an attachment to them is in my mind an attachment to Maya, will serve you no purpose when you die so why keep them now. You have also made a judgement of me based on your own perception of what I wrote, is that Manmat. Do I really cut my hair for ego, in what way. I've already stated thats its not for any of the reasons you mentions before. so just because at this moment in time i have made a choice not to keep kesh and you appear to think that you are following Guru jis alledged Hukam you percieve yourself better than I, True Sikhi spirit if ever there was, As I have failed to follow something that as yet I dont understand (the five K's), you have also failed in the fact that you judge others and fail to understand the concept of equality. so if your willing to share how they help you it would be a start to redeeming yourself and also a start for me to understand better and hopefully one day redeem myself from my manmat state of mind. (true Sikhi, helping each other)
Tony
 
Dear Singh ji
You say you follow the tenth Guru ji . two questions when did he tell you this, where did you see his Hukam. I have asked this many times but as yet you still havent answered honestly.

Tony ji, this has been answered, I gave the answer to Virinder, when he said there is no biblographic evidence. Here it is again.

The biblographic evidence is the living Khalsa of todays time that serve the Lord in full devotion. These same Khalsas were named Baba Deep Singh ji, Bhai Mani Singh ji. These Khalsas carry the evidence you need.

Also these same Khalsas I speak of above, are the one's that told me about the Hukam. The Hukam from the Tenth Nanak lies with these Khalsas.

To the entire sangat at Kabul.
The Guru will protect the Sangat,
I am pleased with you all.
You should take baptism by the sword, from the Five Beloveds.
Keep your hair uncut for this is a seal of the Guru,
Accept the use of shorts and a sword.
Always wear IRON KARA on your wrist,
Keep your hair clean and comb it twice a day.
Do not eat Halal (Kosher) meat,
Do not use tobacco in any form,
Have no connection with those who kill their daughters
Or permit the cutting of their children's hair.
Do not associate with Meenas, Massands and Ram-raiyas (anti-Sikh cults)
Recite the Guru's hymns
Meditate on "The Name of our Wonderful Lord",
Follow the Sikh code of discipline
I give the entire sangat my blessing)
Signature of 10th Guru
Jeth 26, 1756 Bikrami 23rd May 1699 A.D
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

I do as my mind tells me and that is also how I came to choose Sikhism, So as to your logic to choose to be a Sikh is manmat, this means that only those who are Sikh from birth can ever truly be a Sikh, It would also be my own choice as all on the forum have said as to when the time is right for me to take Amrit, Again this would be a manmat decision.

By YOUR mind YOU 'choose' Sikhism. You have every right to believe what you want to believe and express your opinion.

As a Sikh, Sikh of the Guru and by Guru Sahib teaching, das was blessed to be put on this path. I can't do anything. if I could do something then "me" would be on the materialistic path.



I might follow my own mind but it is better than blindly following without knowledge of why.

I have complete trust in Guru Sahibs word and the knowledge of why is attained when I live the word. For a Sikh the why is answered when the word is put into action. A quick reminder of Bhai Lehna ji and Bhai Jetha ji as I told you in a different thread is needed.

The SGGS clearly states that your body and hair do not follow you and to keep an attachment to them is in my mind an attachment to Maya, will serve you no purpose when you die so why keep them now.

The 5 k's are a gift from the Tenth Master. These gifts should be held dear to a Sikh. The 5 k's help a person progress on the path of Sikhi. Maya is something that takes you away from Sikhi.

will serve you no purpose when you die so why keep them now

By this notion, Tony ji you should stop eating. Eating will serve you no purpose when you die so why eat now.

The hint to the question I know you will ask me once you read this will come in a essay I will post right after I respond to this post of your's.:D

You have also made a judgement of me based on your own perception of what I wrote, is that Manmat.

There was no judgement made, I wrote on what you gave me.

Do I really cut my hair for ego, in what way.

I told you because you want your individuality. You follow the mind and do as you please. As recently you say it irritates you and once again this would be called manmat (self-willed).



I've already stated thats its not for any of the reasons you mentions before. so just because at this moment in time i have made a choice not to keep kesh and you appear to think that you are following Guru jis alledged Hukam you percieve yourself better than I,

No one said anyone is better, I just told you what you are doing. You made a choice to cut your hair and this goes against Guru Sahibs Hukam and your choice to do it is defined as Manmat. What is wrong is wrong. There is no need to apply sugar to make something look better because ultimately the sugar will dissolve.

True Sikhi spirit if ever there was, As I have failed to follow something that as yet I dont understand (the five K's), you have also failed in the fact that you judge others and fail to understand the concept of equality.

Your lashing out at me and making false accusations will not help you at all.

so if your willing to share how they help you it would be a start to redeeming yourself and also a start for me to understand better and hopefully one day redeem myself from my manmat state of mind. (true Sikhi, helping each other)
Tony

Tony ji, there are some people that just say they want to be helped and then there are the one who say it and mean it. i am not here to impress or gain browny points, so there is no need for me to 'redeem' myself. If you don't like my straight forward answers then click the lil 'x' in the corner.
 

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