Sikhism And Homosexuality

[kds1980]

I fail to understand why this fear against homosexuality. Someone else's sexual orientation does not affect my life in any shape or form. My heterosexuality is not in danger because of them.

We know that homosexuality also exists in the animal kingdom, so it is not a choice but part of creation.

Tejwant Singh

I am not afraid of homosexuality.I am just concerned about its impact on society especially like India.This world is designed in hetrosexual way not homosexual.People share Rooms,prisons,hostels,bathrooms with same sex
and not with other sex.Homosexuality some time is also the result of sexual starvation and Many Indians are sexually starved so chances are they will induldge in homosexual acts.It is also possible that strong men will force
weak men to have sex with them in prisons or hostels.We have already seen this in Ragging as in there is quite an increase in case of suicides by students.In some of those cases forcing them to do homosexual acts was not uncommon.Tejwant ji sometimes some things look good on paper but when introduced in society then it does not produce good results.


Also I don't understand why people are giving arguements that homosexuality exists in nature so it is natural.By this logic Rape and forced sex also exists in nature as It is the way of passing powerful genes so it is also natural.

 

[Lee]

I am not afraid of homosexuality.I am just concerned about its impact on society especially like India.This world is designed in hetrosexual way not homosexual.People share Rooms,prisons,hostels,bathrooms with same sex
and not with other sex.Homosexuality some time is also the result of sexual starvation and Many Indians are sexually starved so chances are they will induldge in homosexual acts.It is also possible that strong men will force
weak men to have sex with them in prisons or hostels.We have already seen this in Ragging as in there is quite an increase in case of suicides by students.In some of those cases forcing them to do homosexual acts was not uncommon.Tejwant ji sometimes some things look good on paper but when introduced in society then it does not produce good results.


Also I don't understand why people are giving arguements that homosexuality exists in nature so it is natural.By this logic Rape and forced sex also exists in nature as It is the way of passing powerful genes so it is also natural.

Then the deeper question would be why? Why are you concerend about the homosexual impact on society? What is it about same gender love that has you concerned, is just the thought o same geneder sex?

Homosexuality does indeed exist in anture, and so does rape so you are correct both are natural. This argument though is really one to counter the argument that homosexual sex is unnatural.

Tell me though can you even name me one thing that is unnatural?

People do in fact share rooms, prisions, hostels with both genders, what makes you think they do not?

You appear to be speaking from a position of ignorance, educate your self my freind, it does wonders for you.

 

[kds1980]

Then the deeper question would be why? Why are you concerend about the homosexual impact on society? What is it about same gender love that has you concerned, is just the thought o same geneder sex?

Homosexuality does indeed exist in anture, and so does rape so you are correct both are natural. This argument though is really one to counter the argument that homosexual sex is unnatural.

Tell me though can you even name me one thing that is unnatural?

People do in fact share rooms, prisions, hostels with both genders, what makes you think they do not?

You appear to be speaking from a position of ignorance, educate your self my freind, it does wonders for you.

Lee ji

May be people share rooms,hostels,prisons In Europe or in USA but Not in
India..

I am concerned about its impact because in last 20-30 years Indian urban society has already lost much of its family values.the fast materialistic western life is replacing that.If homosexuality become's another fashion symbol then you will find large number of youths doing it just for fun and even forcing others to do it.

 

[Lee]

Lee ji

May be people share rooms,hostels,prisons In Europe or in USA but Not in
India..

I am concerned about its impact because in last 20-30 years Indian urban society has already lost much of its family values.the fast materialistic western life is replacing that.If homosexuality become's another fashion symbol then you will find large number of youths doing it just for fun and even forcing others to do it.

Again though I have seen this argument,'Homosexuality effects family values' but not a srhed of evidance to show that it does.

How does homosexuality ruin family values?
What does it matter if large numbers of youths engage in homosexual behaviour? How is this worse than large numbers of youth engaing in hetrosexual behaviour?
What exactly is bad about homosexuality?

All I have had thus far is the same old tired, unproven, knee jerk reaction. Where is the thought, what of reasoning? You belive this obviously, so why, why do you belive all of this, what are the reasons, where is your reasoning?

Wait.... you have thought about this belife of yours? It's not one of these unfounded belifes that you hold but have never considered the reasons why, is it?

Why we are on thinking through beliefs and the reason why we hold to them, why is it considered good to hold to tradition, why not change, is change bad?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I am not afraid of homosexuality.I am just concerned about its impact on society especially like India.This world is designed in hetrosexual way not homosexual.People share Rooms,prisons,hostels,bathrooms with same sex
and not with other sex.Homosexuality some time is also the result of sexual starvation and Many Indians are sexually starved so chances are they will induldge in homosexual acts.It is also possible that strong men will force
weak men to have sex with them in prisons or hostels.We have already seen this in Ragging as in there is quite an increase in case of suicides by students.In some of those cases forcing them to do homosexual acts was not uncommon.Tejwant ji sometimes some things look good on paper but when introduced in society then it does not produce good results.


Also I don't understand why people are giving arguements that homosexuality exists in nature so it is natural.By this logic Rape and forced sex also exists in nature as It is the way of passing powerful genes so it is also natural.

Kds ji,

Guru fateh.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt when you say that you have no fear about homosexuality. If it is not fear then it is bias. It is up to you to decide which is worse for the inner growth of a Sikh as an individual.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Randip Singh]

I am not afraid of homosexuality.I am just concerned about its impact on society especially like India.This world is designed in hetrosexual way not homosexual.People share Rooms,prisons,hostels,bathrooms with same sex
and not with other sex.Homosexuality some time is also the result of sexual starvation and Many Indians are sexually starved so chances are they will induldge in homosexual acts.It is also possible that strong men will force
weak men to have sex with them in prisons or hostels.We have already seen this in Ragging as in there is quite an increase in case of suicides by students.In some of those cases forcing them to do homosexual acts was not uncommon.Tejwant ji sometimes some things look good on paper but when introduced in society then it does not produce good results.


Also I don't understand why people are giving arguements that homosexuality exists in nature so it is natural.By this logic Rape and forced sex also exists in nature as It is the way of passing powerful genes so it is also natural.

KDS ji you have to spend some time with me and meet some of my Gay friends. They come to my house, play with my children. Some are deeply spiritual. Some are real prudes, some are promiscuous. Some are loud, some are quiet.

Guess what, my heterosexual friends to come to my house, play with my children. Some are deeply spiritual. Some are real prudes, some are promiscuous. Some are loud, some are quiet.

I would like to know how many people actually on this forum have Gay friends, that they actually have come to their house?

 

[Lee]

KDS ji you have to spend some time with me and meet some of my Gay friends. They come to my house, play with my children. Some are deeply spiritual. Some are real prudes, some are promiscuous. Some are loud, some are quiet.

Guess what, my heterosexual friends to come to my house, play with my children. Some are deeply spiritual. Some are real prudes, some are promiscuous. Some are loud, some are quiet.

I would like to know how many people actually on this forum have Gay friends, that they actually have come to their house?

Randip ji,

Well said. Like most people I have friends from all levels of life, some are gay, some are straigth, some are bi, some are lesbian. Some are black some are white, some are Indian, some are Pakistani, some are even American! ;¬)

I'm reminded of growing up as a child of the late 70's early 80's here in London UK. I well remember the race riots and recall the calls of how unatural it is for a black person to 'go out' with a white person. Thankfully those days are fast dissapering as the majority of folk reconise the inherent bigotry in such a stance. It reminds me of now, and the inherent bigotry displayed by all of those who proclaim homosexual love as unatural. Really it is stupid people with outdated ideas.

I know though, from experinace, that the children of these people are likely to grow up and throwout the wasted ideals of their perants in favour of more enlightend ones. We are all of the same species, and we are all exactly as God made us. For any religous person this is far more important to realise, far far more important for Sikhs, than to take rubbish dogma from other religoins and incorperate it into the Sikh mindest.

I have one simple question for those confused souls. What is it about homosexuality that is bad?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I, myself have attended gay marriages of both men and women, both in the UK and in Brasil. I still keep friendship with these gay friends of mine since I left UK in 1975 and Brasil in 1985. Some have grown up kids now. It has never affected my sexuality in any way or form.

So, this fear and insecurity laced with bias is unfounded, especially in Sikhi

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Another of those subjects into which "sikhi/gurmatt" is dragged in needlessly. Since Guru Ji didnt even mention it..its not IMPORTANT for growth on the Spiritual path towards Merger with the Creator..IF it was a "hindrance in any way" Guru Ji would ahve mentioned it strongly..like He did Kaam, Krodh, Lust, Anger, Lobh Attachment, Moh Hankaar Pride etc
THESE are the REAL DANGERS...MOST FREQUENTLY MENTIONED BY GURU JI...yet we "ignore" them and run after mundane homos, and lesbians..or jump on the meat is bad for you bandwagon...misplaced senses....

 

[Amandeep_barabanki]

everybody here is trying to say that people should give away homosexuality, but is it really possible?
can u(being straight) turn homosexual even if u try ur best?
the answer is no!!!

none of the homos can turn straight coz homosexuality is not a disorder!
There is no human that woke up some day and decided to turn gay then after, our sexuality is decided when we r born, the only thing is when do u urself come to know about it!!!
and mind it, homosexuality is not introduced by the foreigners it is present in one's mind(if it is)!!!

 

[Lee]

everybody here is trying to say that people should give away homosexuality, but is it really possible?
can u(being straight) turn homosexual even if u try ur best?
the answer is no!!!

none of the homos can turn straight coz homosexuality is not a disorder!
There is no human that woke up some day and decided to turn gay then after, our sexuality is decided when we r born, the only thing is when do u urself come to know about it!!!
and mind it, homosexuality is not introduced by the foreigners it is present in one's mind(if it is)!!!

Indeed, yet some people still refuse to belive this. To these I ask you to perform a simple experiment to ascertian the truth of the matter.

Try for just one day to be sexualy attracted to a member of your own gender, and them report back here how it goes.

 

[Amandeep_barabanki]

well said, and u know this is what heterosexuals are afraid of(Thinking of them bieng attracted to same sex)!
they just start thinking that being near a gay would affect them,and the most basic thought is that does he or she think about having sex with them.......

This is a **** thought, first of all i would like to ask the so called heterosexual boys that do u fall for any women u see? whether she's ur kind or not?
obviously not!
then why would homosexuals fall for u? Firstly They have thier own choices,and secondly they r interested in thier own kinds(homos).......so give up the feeling of insecurity and think of the topic with a broad mind and try to know more about homosexuals before abusing them!!!

 

[Lee]

well said, and u know this is what heterosexuals are afraid of(Thinking of them bieng attracted to same sex)!
they just start thinking that being near a gay would affect them,and the most basic thought is that does he or she think about having sex with them.......

This is a **** thought, first of all i would like to ask the so called heterosexual boys that do u fall for any women u see? whether she's ur kind or not?
obviously not!
then why would homosexuals fall for u? Firstly They have thier own choices,and secondly they r interested in thier own kinds(homos).......so give up the feeling of insecurity and think of the topic with a broad mind and try to know more about homosexuals before abusing them!!!

Hah Hah ji,

That is quiet a general statement you have made there, I understand though what you mean. Being straight myself I have never felt this way, but you are correct some straight men do have this irrational fear.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Well over here. Das is just poking his nose to tell some happening in India. Shri Akal Takhat Sahib, Hindus of RSS, Muslims and Christians are opposing the ruling of court which says homosexuality is not illegal in India.

Das views are that they could be integrated even faith does not allow them and idiotic Arya Samaji Ramdev, one eyed Yoga Teacher who is at the forefront of Anti Gays and lesbianism should himself be treated for xenophobia(Das thinks this means fear from Humans if some other meaning is there then kindly correct it). He says that mentaly ill people are gays. Das says that with hatred toward gay or any human even sinner or offender, Ramdev himself needs treatment. His brand of Yoga has failed him.

 

[Amandeep_barabanki]

Baba Ramdev tries to quote statements from religious and law books that homosexuality is unnatural and should be banned, and secondly in a TV show he said that we should try to convert the homosexuals into straights, then i would kindly request him to learn about the tests and thier results done on homos that say that homosexuality is not a state of mind that can be changed(sexuality can never be converted), he should first learn things and then speak about them.....on a second thought he should not speak at all,he should concentrate on what he can do best(although it doesnt work) rather than challenging nature and the laws!!!

 

[Amandeep_barabanki]

yup, sorry for making it so general, but i meant to address those heterosexual people that start opposing homos even before learning anything about homosexuality, and majority of them do so!

 

[Randip Singh]

well said, and u know this is what heterosexuals are afraid of(Thinking of them bieng attracted to same sex)!
they just start thinking that being near a gay would affect them,and the most basic thought is that does he or she think about having sex with them.......

This is a **** thought, first of all i would like to ask the so called heterosexual boys that do u fall for any women u see? whether she's ur kind or not?
obviously not!
then why would homosexuals fall for u? Firstly They have thier own choices,and secondly they r interested in thier own kinds(homos).......so give up the feeling of insecurity and think of the topic with a broad mind and try to know more about homosexuals before abusing them!!!

Hehe very funny and a very good point.

Maybe people should watch "American Beauty" .

 

[gaysikh_uk]

I'm a gay Sikh keshadhari man and I have always felt that it was with Waheguruji's kirpa that I'm gay. It's not a choice. It's not a sexual 'preference'. It's my identity, and it's a gift from the Akal Purakh in much the same way that I consider my hair and my limbs to be a gift from the Almighty.

People tend to confuse the concept of Kaam with any non-procreative sexual activity, and see homosexuals as having been rejected by the Gurus due to the teachings in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Unfortunately, those individuals tend to have a very superficial understanding of what the SGGS actually says. Kaam is not sexual-activity in itself, but rather excessive sexual activity or excessive lust.

It must be borne in mind that procreation in itself requires 'lustful' sexual activity, otherwise it is not possible for a child to be conceived. If Kaam truly related to all sexual activity, then the Sikh ideal would be for sanyassi rather than grishti jeevan.

It is also a misnomer to believe that the concept of Kaam is something which excludes homosexuals from being Sikhs. If the Gurus had wanted to specifically state that homosexuality was wrong, they would have done so. The Koran has specific statements relating to sexual activity, including homosexual acts, and there were plenty of openly-gay individuals living in the Indian sub-continent from 1469 to 1708, including gay pirs and bhagats such as Sarmad.

The Gurus knew of homosexuals living in their society. They didn't comment on it as sexuality in itself was not of concern. What mattered to them most was the way in which somebody lives his or her life.

There's a good website that I know of which has a number of articles about homosexuality and Sikhism - SARBAT.NET - the one-stop resource for Gay Sikhs - I would suggest that you have a read through some of them to gain a greater understanding on the issues that affect gay Sikhs in the present day.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Mann415]

HI,
I am 100% agree with SIKH from USA. kandola God has created things but he has also created a brain to think. He gives you a option and you are an individual and choose what you prefer based on your consciences and other factors. Did you ever wonder why Kaam was the first in Don't do list.Guru ji told us to beware of 5 worldly things could lead us to disaster as you already know. Have u ever wonder why wrong things are consider wrong. Don't get me wrong i am not bashing gays but it is as wrong as if you buy a sex. God did not create homosexuality ,it's Man's lust. Just like people will have sex with new partner every other day. Sex was something made for reproduction and i think God created this pleasure so we would crate another humans to keep the cycle running.: thumbup:
it the pleasure could lead you to derailed from the path of God and it is true and it goes both way.It apply to those men who change women for pleasure or like to have multiple partners. Its all depends how you want to lead your life and if you looking for just pleasure in this life then its you own perception to make it rite. How many sexual diseases humans have had created because of Lust. Some were created by gay men and some were created by people who has multiple partners. And we still don't learn that God is warning us to stop but hey People still does not stop. How many people are dieing everyday because they had made Lusty wrong decisions...
Im sure alot of you not gonna be agree with me and hey and its your opinion.
How many of us has come to this world and gone......

 

[Lee]

I'm afraid Mann ji, that you are entirly wrong.

Sexual preferance is no more a choice than the colour of your eyes. Unless you can bring to the table verifyable scientific evidance that I am wrong?