Narayanjot ji,
Guru Fateh.
So, in other words you tend to agree with me that it is not the Science but the people who are using it as the observational tool manipulate things. Is this what you are trying to say?
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Atheism Sikhism And Atheism: A Philosophical Discourse
Narayanjot ji,
Guru Fateh.
So, in other words you tend to agree with me that it is not the Science but the people who are using it as the observational tool manipulate things. Is this what you are trying to say?
Regards
Tejwant Singh
We are both writing so quickly that we are writing on top of one another and questions and answers are getting mixed up.
Here is your most recent request. You want me to elaborate "and is not aimed in the direction of metaphysical questions."
Here is your most recent request. You want me to elaborate "and is not aimed in the direction of metaphysical questions."
Can we leave this question for now because -- I am not jesting - my lunch break is over and I have to work on a project that requires me to engage in some observation and falsification. 
As much as I love this -- duty calls.
As much as I love this -- duty calls.
Narayanjot Ji,
Guru Fateh.
Used by whom or what? Used by the scientists who are biologists, chemists, physicists etc or by the Science itself?
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Can we leave this question for now because -- I am not jesting - my lunch break is over and I have to work on a project that requires me to engage in some observation and falsification.
Narayanjot ji,
Guru Fateh.
I understand that and take your time, but interesting interaction anyway.
Have a nice day at work.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Narayanjot ji,
Guru Fateh.
I understand that and take your time, but interesting interaction anyway.
Have a nice day at work.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Thank you for your kind wishes Tejwant ji
I am back from work now -- but think I am going to take a break from the thread and give a thoughtful answer later this evening. Need to spend some time on forum maintenance and uploading posts.
Brain is a very complex organ of our body about the working of which even science knows little of till now.It can conjure up thoughts and images which are not true in reality,but the brain makes us to believe to be true.
From your inference what I understand is that we should tell our children to be skeptic about science and take with a pinch of salt what the science teachers teach them.
Dear Kulwantk,
I am not writing this in deface of Namjaap. But I am asking you questions.
You took this personally so you personally have to reply.
All the degrees you demanded from Namjaap, do you have those degrees your self?
Before you ask others of their education and degree you should put your education on line. I am not going to judge what you have or not have. You your self have to prove what is your education.
The founder of the biggest religion Jesus never went to any school. He had no degree. Mohamed never went to any university yet his followers are the 2nd biggest in this world.
Which University Nanak went?
There is something called logic and common sense. Once we believe in one religion we don’t use logic or common sense. We claim that the religion we believe is the only true religion. Don’t for get religion is man made not God made.
No one has seen God. God can’t speak. In order for God to speak it must have vocal cord which God do not have. But we claim we heard God.
You are so arrogant and narrow minded that you don’t even know it.
Some of the thing are said in figure of speech it don’t mean it is true but the meaning is what we should look at.
ei: this is as true as the rising of the sun. It don’t mean sun rise. Most of us know sun do not rise but the saying make sense. (btw here in US there are people who still think earth is flat not round) Figure that out in this modern world people still believe it.
This is forum where every one has the right to express his/her opinion. We should discuss the topic not person’s education. I have heard it lots of times in Canada and US.
If person can not speak English he/she is dumb. Are they right to think this? This is what you are trying to prove that if person don’t have the education with degrees then he/she is dumb.
Seeker
- Jul 14, 2007
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- 1,609
Seeker3k Ji,
Gurfateh. I have only one thing to say here. I will post a portion of Gauri Sukhmani M.5
Jih parsaad tayree pat rahai, gur parsaad nanak jas kahai. (Ang 270 Line 12)
Translation :
By His Grace, your honor is preserved; By Guru's Grace, O Nanak, chant His Praises.
JimRinX
SPNer
Jasbirkaleka ji
In Tibetan Buddhism one is taught about the 'Grosser' and 'Subtler' parts of ones consciousness; and personal experience with the metaphysical - as well as my rather deep knowledge of the Sciences (I consider myself a sort of 'lay-polymath' - modesty aside!) - has led me to the following conclusion.
The 'Grosser' part of our consciousness is based wholey in the Brain, and is a result of the neurochemical/electrical processes that Science has begun to tease apart.
The 'Subtler' part of our consciousness is the 'Soul' - the 'Clear Light' - and is seperate, but yet a part of, the 'Whole Conscious'.
I believe that the phenomena known as Deja Vu, and Ithos (which is the discovery that one has an ability - say, a type of artistic talent that, even in the gifted, would take years to master the physical technique of it), come to us from the Formless Realm, wth which the Subtler part of us is always 'aware'.
This realm is timeless - etarnal; and if you're ever Blessed enough to experience it - and then return to this realm (actually, we all have a part of us in existing both of them), you'll see that the Knowledge and Memories of your past incarnations are all there; which means, to me at least, that Memory is not strictly a function of the Brain.
Narayanjot ji - the Great Science Proffesor amoungst us - will agree with me that Science; with it's strictly defined boundaries between 'Theory' and proven 'Fact', derived from the application of the 'Scientific Process'; will probably never get past the 'Theory' stage - if it ever gets to that point at all - in regards to the true, and completely metaphysical, nature of the Soul/Spirit/Clear Light/Qi/Tao/etc..
Some Sci Fi Authors would have us 'transfer' ourselves into some kind of machine-based cyborg; but, though I spend most of my time reading Science Texts and Magazines - and am trying to write a Novel or two myself - which makes me both very, very 'Pro-Science' and Knowledgeable about Science (for a 'lay person'); I don't think I';d want to do that!!!:{;o:
In Tibetan Buddhism one is taught about the 'Grosser' and 'Subtler' parts of ones consciousness; and personal experience with the metaphysical - as well as my rather deep knowledge of the Sciences (I consider myself a sort of 'lay-polymath' - modesty aside!) - has led me to the following conclusion.
The 'Grosser' part of our consciousness is based wholey in the Brain, and is a result of the neurochemical/electrical processes that Science has begun to tease apart.
The 'Subtler' part of our consciousness is the 'Soul' - the 'Clear Light' - and is seperate, but yet a part of, the 'Whole Conscious'.
I believe that the phenomena known as Deja Vu, and Ithos (which is the discovery that one has an ability - say, a type of artistic talent that, even in the gifted, would take years to master the physical technique of it), come to us from the Formless Realm, wth which the Subtler part of us is always 'aware'.
This realm is timeless - etarnal; and if you're ever Blessed enough to experience it - and then return to this realm (actually, we all have a part of us in existing both of them), you'll see that the Knowledge and Memories of your past incarnations are all there; which means, to me at least, that Memory is not strictly a function of the Brain.
Narayanjot ji - the Great Science Proffesor amoungst us - will agree with me that Science; with it's strictly defined boundaries between 'Theory' and proven 'Fact', derived from the application of the 'Scientific Process'; will probably never get past the 'Theory' stage - if it ever gets to that point at all - in regards to the true, and completely metaphysical, nature of the Soul/Spirit/Clear Light/Qi/Tao/etc..
Some Sci Fi Authors would have us 'transfer' ourselves into some kind of machine-based cyborg; but, though I spend most of my time reading Science Texts and Magazines - and am trying to write a Novel or two myself - which makes me both very, very 'Pro-Science' and Knowledgeable about Science (for a 'lay person'); I don't think I';d want to do that!!!:{;o:
JimRinX ji
Thanks for the promotion to Great Science Professor. Not quite, or not by a longshot. I have taught research methods and statistics at the undergraduate and doctoral level in the social sciences for 28 years.
Seekr ji
Khul{censored} does not visit the forum on a regular basis. Therefore she may not know you have asked her questions. It may be some time before she takes a look.
Thanks for the promotion to Great Science Professor. Not quite, or not by a longshot. I have taught research methods and statistics at the undergraduate and doctoral level in the social sciences for 28 years.
Seekr ji
Khul{censored} does not visit the forum on a regular basis. Therefore she may not know you have asked her questions. It may be some time before she takes a look.
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
JimRinX
SPNer
namjap ji
Thank You for the link! I'd never heard of the IRBT before - but what they do has done a LOT for many, many people in my 'non-Dharma-practitioning' Society; as they've opened a LOT of eyes to the possibilities that the 'Standard Christianity' might not containg a trully complete set of teachings about the True Nature of "Life, the Universe, and Everything". (The "Answer to it all" is 43 - according to God, in Douglas Adams 'Hitchikers Guild to the Galaxy' - only, once they found it, they realized, in a very 'Zen Moment' that they'd forgotten the question!).
Yes...Memory Regression, in Movies like 'On a Clear Day You Can See Forever', have done as much to help Americans move towards true Enlightenment as all of the Faddish, Corrupt Yogis who've come to our shores ever did (No direspect to those who have NOT tried to kill off a small town in the State of Oregon!).
There's a renewed interest in using certain ancient, traditional tools of the Shaman - not to mention Zarathustra! - to help so-called 'mentally-ill' people, or people facing imminent Death from Disease, to deal with the anxiety and trauma of the experience, as exemplified by the half dozen articles in no less than Scientific American Magazine; which is important to me - as I've been 'labled' Mentally Ill (though I'm actually Physically Disabled!), by Christians who're hell bent on violating my Civil Rights - because it 'got out' that I, too, have found 'relief' in these things.
I don't like to think of it as having attained 'relief from Mental Illness', though; which is why I'm glad that the Inventor of a certain 'Problem Child' - who recently died, at the age of 102! - did himself point out the Spiritual aspects of the whole thing.
I'm not currently a paid subscriber to Scientific American - so I can't link you to the latest in their series of very libertine items on the Good Swiss Doctors 'Mind Expanding' research; but it's in the latest issue, if you want to read it (if you remind me in a few weeks, I'll post it then, as they make past issue item available on their site about two weeks after they're taken off the stands).
And, NO, I'm not a Crazy Japanese guy who wants to indiscriminately 'dose' people because he thinks he's 'OM'; nor do I share the motivations of the 'Chicago Seven' (have to say that, been taking a LOT of 'Legal Heat'!!!); I just want everyone who is 'ready' for it, to have access to the Somas (Greater and Lessor), through the legitimization of their use, so that they, too, don't end up taking a bunch of Legal Heat from SCARED Christian People!!!
Thank You for the link! I'd never heard of the IRBT before - but what they do has done a LOT for many, many people in my 'non-Dharma-practitioning' Society; as they've opened a LOT of eyes to the possibilities that the 'Standard Christianity' might not containg a trully complete set of teachings about the True Nature of "Life, the Universe, and Everything". (The "Answer to it all" is 43 - according to God, in Douglas Adams 'Hitchikers Guild to the Galaxy' - only, once they found it, they realized, in a very 'Zen Moment' that they'd forgotten the question!).
Yes...Memory Regression, in Movies like 'On a Clear Day You Can See Forever', have done as much to help Americans move towards true Enlightenment as all of the Faddish, Corrupt Yogis who've come to our shores ever did (No direspect to those who have NOT tried to kill off a small town in the State of Oregon!).
There's a renewed interest in using certain ancient, traditional tools of the Shaman - not to mention Zarathustra! - to help so-called 'mentally-ill' people, or people facing imminent Death from Disease, to deal with the anxiety and trauma of the experience, as exemplified by the half dozen articles in no less than Scientific American Magazine; which is important to me - as I've been 'labled' Mentally Ill (though I'm actually Physically Disabled!), by Christians who're hell bent on violating my Civil Rights - because it 'got out' that I, too, have found 'relief' in these things.
I don't like to think of it as having attained 'relief from Mental Illness', though; which is why I'm glad that the Inventor of a certain 'Problem Child' - who recently died, at the age of 102! - did himself point out the Spiritual aspects of the whole thing.
I'm not currently a paid subscriber to Scientific American - so I can't link you to the latest in their series of very libertine items on the Good Swiss Doctors 'Mind Expanding' research; but it's in the latest issue, if you want to read it (if you remind me in a few weeks, I'll post it then, as they make past issue item available on their site about two weeks after they're taken off the stands).
And, NO, I'm not a Crazy Japanese guy who wants to indiscriminately 'dose' people because he thinks he's 'OM'; nor do I share the motivations of the 'Chicago Seven' (have to say that, been taking a LOT of 'Legal Heat'!!!); I just want everyone who is 'ready' for it, to have access to the Somas (Greater and Lessor), through the legitimization of their use, so that they, too, don't end up taking a bunch of Legal Heat from SCARED Christian People!!!
Past life or Not.
This is my thought I am not trying to insult any one. I know I will be accused for many things. They have every right to accuse me. Some one said Sikhs are true seeker. I disagree with it. Sikhs and any other who believe in one religion can not be seeker. Believer just believe not seek. He/she will justify his/her belief by finding examples.
As human we build our belief on other people’s belief. Other people build their belief on others who lived before them. No matter if the person lived 10 year ago or 5000 years ago. We build our belief on them. We do not try to find the truth. It is more comforting to believe on others. Especially those are dead. Dead people don’t talk and don’t correct us.
As for the past lives there is no proof that we have lived before and came back to live from where we left in last life. All the stories are manufactured by those who believe in reincarnation.
On the other hand people who do not believe in reincarnation will not try to find out by them self just reject the reincarnation.
Where the memories come from the article is just that. Based on made up stories. There is no one out there can tell about his/her past life. Stories are made up on one or two events maybe right. People will say he/she is talking about the last life.
The biggest fraud is linked to Guru Gobind Singh that he wrote about his past life. He say he lived on the mountain now called Hemkund. Guru sahib never wrote that book it was some one else wrote it after guru ji was dead. People claim that Guru Ji had the power to know. Was it only the last guru had the power to know. Why not there is any other gugu told their past life.
Thoughts comes from brain. The neuron in the brain communicate with other neurons by chemical or light. That’s where the thoughts originate not from the past life. Why some are more intelligent then the others. There are 3000 billion base pairs of DNA. Every person is not same as the next person. It is all genetic nothing to do with the past life.
If it is from the past life then why not try the experiment. (Some did it) Leave a child alone let him see no one and he should not hear any sound and should not see any thing. Stay in dark. Then if he speak and show any intelligent and recall his last life then there maybe some truth in it.
seeker
JimRinX
SPNer
seeker3k ji
I'm sorry to read that you don't have any more Faith in Reincarnation than you do; I've personal experience based reasons to believe in it - but then, though I'm not Guru Gobind Singh ji - I do 'know', I have 'seen' (perhaps 'tasted' would be a better word) these Memories; and it wasn't through the Art of Memory Regression.
In fact, when I arose from my meditations that day, I found that a White Streak had 'appeared' in my Hair.
There, I've done what I promised OM/God/Allah/The Burning Bush/Ahura Mazda/Oden/The Brahman/The Great Formless One I'd do, when encountering 'Seekers'.
When you die (hopefully not too soon!), you'll know - one way or the other!
Tell OM I said "Hi" - if you beat me there.
I'm sorry to read that you don't have any more Faith in Reincarnation than you do; I've personal experience based reasons to believe in it - but then, though I'm not Guru Gobind Singh ji - I do 'know', I have 'seen' (perhaps 'tasted' would be a better word) these Memories; and it wasn't through the Art of Memory Regression.
In fact, when I arose from my meditations that day, I found that a White Streak had 'appeared' in my Hair.
There, I've done what I promised OM/God/Allah/The Burning Bush/Ahura Mazda/Oden/The Brahman/The Great Formless One I'd do, when encountering 'Seekers'.
When you die (hopefully not too soon!), you'll know - one way or the other!
Tell OM I said "Hi" - if you beat me there.
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,655
JImRinX jiJimRinX ji says:
Dear: SPN jis - and Bhagat Singh ji, in particular
I was sent this, by Virinder ji, as part of a personal message; and I think it says it all about your desire for 'proof' of reincarnation, enlightenment, etc..ਮੂਏ ਹੂਏ ਜਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੇਹੁਗੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਇਲਾ ॥
Mū▫e hū▫e ja▫o mukaṯḏehuge mukaṯ na jānai ko▫ilā.
If You liberate me after I am dead, no one will know that I am liberated. ----Bhagat Namdev, Raag Malar, AGGS, Page, 1292-15
If you're familiar with me, my posts, etc.; then you'll know that I've had a kind of 'out-of-body/existential experience'; one that - after I arose, went to the loo, and looked in the mirror - had left me with a white streak in my hair, above and between my eyes, that had not been there before.
And YES - I DO believe that the Great Formless One, with whom I'd just 'communed' (Buddha first, OM second; just like I've read in Buddhist Sutras), caused this to happen; so that I would not only have faith in the fact that what had just happened was not some kind of 'halucination', but also so that I would take the wisdom that had been imparted upon me through this communing of souls - great and small - as seriously as I have since then.
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737 (Sikhism and Atheism: A Philosophical Discourse)
This has led me to find a very harmonious state of existence - especially after certain people (Evangelicals) set out to "Prove to me that the Buddha is nothing - and that only Jesus saves."
That harrasment issue aside; though I cannot prove to you that this happened - I would not DARE to make up such things, all things considered! - I can tell you that part of what I was shown during my experiences (I've done it again twice), included the memories of all of my past lives; or, at the risk of sounding 'cliche', I had my 'Book of Life' read.
Everything that I've learned about Sikhism, since joining SPN shortly after reading a book called 'An Introduction to Sikhism', jibes completely with these experiences.
I've seldom read a more compellingly accurate description of what the 'nether realm' is like, than in some of the Quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib (I'm soory I'm not familiar with it well enough yet to quote 'chapter and verse') that other Sikhs, on SPN, have shared with me as a result of my postings.
Have Faith in your Lovely Faith, my good jis. Nanak was not steering you wrong!
By the way, the Dalai Lama announced (2004?) that, "The pursuit and perfection of ones scientific knowledge, is just as important as the pursuit and perfection of ones spiritual knowledge; and, if science ever proves Buddhism wrong - then it will be Buddhism, NOT SCIENCE, that MUST CHANGE."
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737 (Sikhism and Atheism: A Philosophical Discourse)
As I like to say, "Touche, Misseur Pope - TOUCHE!"
I am not looking for proof of reincarnation, just evidence.
I am not familiar with your posts but I am glad you are able to have OBEs. You are welcome to your hallucinations. Our minds can easily be fooled into thinking many things. Yours in just one of those many things.
E.g. I can "step" into some of my comic book Mutant characters... Walk in their shoes and cause destruction and annihilation everywhere. Then a moment later be sitting on a toilet seat...
And yes you can learn through your hallucinations... I have learned taht total annihilation is not the way.
Seriously... I am sure you are very sincere with your post but to think that you met with Buddha...
instead of trying to explain why you just imagined it... let me find you a video taht explains it. The video touches up somethings, I would recommend getting Cognitive Psychology books to further enhance your knowledge on why you have such hallucinations and how tehy are possible.
------------------
Jasbir Kaleka Ji
We understand much more about that brain now than we ever did. Thanks to all the psycologists, who have spent countless hours on their research!
YouTube - Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson - American Atheists 09
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,655
What??!
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