Atheism Sikhism And Atheism: A Philosophical Discourse

[JimRinX]

BhagatSingh ji
Actually, as your entitled to your opinions, I don't think ypour being rude (I haven't yet had time to see your Video, but I will when I get off this slow WiFi); I just think that your wrong, and that you sound a lot more like some of the Catholics who have sought to seriously mess around with my Life over then last twelve years or so (Since my Mom died; they've tried to get me 'committed'), than you do like a Typical Sikh; though many of you seem to have allowed Science to swahy you against the Ancient Beliefs.
BTW - I have a deep and abiding knowledge of - and Love of - The Sciences (never below a 95%, in School). I read most of an Encyclopedia before I was 15. I, simply put, have seen to many Real undisputable 'for-lack-of-a-better-word' "Mirracles". Do you have Matter Transmutation Technology? A Time Machine? You'd have to, as I'm well aware of what it's like to 'Close my eyes' and 'step into another reality'.
In that regard, you DO insult me.
Still, you have a Right to your Opnion.
Just do us ALL a favor, under the circumstances of my particular instances here in my life.
As someone who is supposed 'Of The Dharma' - you should learn to listen to those who are being persecuted for their desire to hold or practice what might be any one of or all of OUR beliefs, and learn to time your judgemental remarks - especially if they deal with accusations which, because you've aimed them at a Core Tennant of My Own Beliefs (which many, here, also share), mess with some oens ability to Fight Back on the Behalf of Us All - so that they do NOT coincide with, oh, say an attempt by Conservative Christians/Catholics to really, really, really mess up a Dharma Practitioners life.
Maybe that's just me, though; but then I've had a Friend - a Jewish One - KILLED by the same kind of People who think it's, "Crazy to leave Christ," and that they should, "Be allowed to Kill Jews - because they Killed JESUS.":shutup:
Know what I mean, Vern? (Colluquialism)

 

[spnadmin]

:yes:

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Thanks for this very informative video. I think it should be more widely viewed and propagated.

 

[Astroboy]

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_o...s-reality.html

Wanted: a religion that reflects reality

Well, already there's a seeming contradiction in this blog post -- the title. Because if a religion truly reflected reality, it'd be part of the scientific world view, not religiosity.
So what I mean by "religion" is something more like a philosophy, poetic vision, or statement of what life is about. A meaning-dimension that adds depth to the everyday here and now while remaining consistent with the consensual truths about the cosmos known to science.
Traditional religions come up way short in this regard, along with most non-traditional faiths.
Consider some of the facts (open to alteration, of course) that a reality-based religion would have to mesh its teachings with:
-- Our universe is some fourteen billion years old, having gotten its beginning in a " big bang" that produced a still-happening (and accelerating) expansion of time and space.
-- Over the history of the universe, originally formless matter and energy have congealed into increasingly complex conglomerations that bear no imprint of having been formed by anything but the laws of nature.
-- Those laws led to life arising on Earth about 3.7 billion years ago. Evolutionary principles such as natural selection guided the appearance (and disappearance) of species. Now Homo sapiens is capable of pondering how and why we're here.
There doesn't seem to be room for a personal creator God in this realistic view of reality. Thus it's difficult, though not impossible, to be a scientifically-minded Christian, Jew, or Muslim (to do this, you have to embrace a non-fundamentalist conception of your religion).
Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism fit better with modern science, but by no means completely. Reincarnation or rebirth, for example, are tough to reconcile with the extremely limited (some would say nonexistent) evidence that human consciousness survives death in some fashion.
I didn't like the singer or the music much, but her churchless lyrics are appealing. Sample (with some misspellings corrected):

Don't need no Hare Krishna Hare Krishna,
Hail Mary, Hail Mary god.
Got no yen for zen, Bhagavad-Gita or Gurdjieff.
No Mormon, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist god,
no absolutes beyond refute,
no reverential preferential Judaic Messianic god.
No Bibles, no Mahayanas, Dalai Lama
instant dharma gods.
Don't need no spiritual suicide or
prefrontal lobotomizing god.
Don't need no stoic sexless
antiseptic god.
Don't need no neon crucifix,
no jade Buddhas, no Vedas or Upanishads,
no camels or needles or Papal decrees,
no mail-order ikons, Korans or Mandalas,
no Sri Chimnoys, Meha Babas, or Ayatollahs,
no Gautamas, no Manitou, Ouspensky or Marx,
no yin/yang, no tao, no tarot or incense,
no sacred mushrooms
no dianetics,
no Tibetan prayer mats
no "Immortal invisible gods only wise".
​

That said, I still feel there's a place -- even more, a necessity -- for awe and a sense of mystery in my personal world view.
For many people, religion fulfills the same need. Their faith leads them to look beyond the narrow confines of everyday existence toward the limitless horizon of whatever.
However, as a video (see below) of religious fakery says, believing in dogma is like eating invisible food. You think you're getting some sustenance, but it's all empty calories.
I feel the most satiated when I dive into a hearty meal of ultimate awe -- ignoring unsatisfying tid-bits of religious, spiritual, mystical, or philosophical speculation.
The universe is. I am.
Holy freaking amazingly obvious yet also astoundingly mind blowing.
Often it's said that the ultimate question is "Why is there something rather than nothing?" I used to agree. However, now I prefer to dump the question mark plus the first word, and transpose the next two.
There is something rather than nothing.
Grok that.
When I do, or make a honestly-aweful attempt, I'm left with what feels like the closest I can come to reality-based "religion" (using that word as I defined it above).
Science tells us a lot about what the something is that surrounds us, and is us. But neither science, nor religion, nor anything or anyone else can penetrate the mystery of There is... .
Is just is. Always was, always will be. Praise is.
No need to call it "God." Too much garbage associated with that word. I want to keep my awe clear and simple. Focused on the mystery of existence, not on what exists within is.
Reality is. Unreality isn't. Nothing more to say (for now).

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_.../wanted-a-religion-that-reflects-reality.html

 

[spnadmin]

There is something rather than nothing.

Great!

 

[Astroboy]

Where did the concept of God come from ?

YouTube - Are we living in a constant lie? - The Sumerians and the Annunaki

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - Are you Ready? 3 (Answers & Facts!)

 

[Astroboy]

Jo Aaya So Chal See

Singers: Bhai Harnaam Singh Amritsar Wale Lyricists: Traditional

 

[spnadmin]

namjap ji

I can understand how the videos are generally related to the thread. But I don't see how they are related to "Philosophical Discourse." And a discussion of the rights/wrongs of religion are different from a discussion of atheism and the "existence of God."

 

[BhagatSingh]

I love this video!
YouTube - Sam Harris a joke and a point

 

[Astroboy]

Pain is undoubtedly the first sensory experience for all human beings, as such, it can be observed with the birth of every newborn child, and it can be observed in an unborn child; therefore, pain is an inherent characteristic knowable to all human beings, and it is that knowing of pain from where human knowledge of right and wrong originates. When pain is first sensed, an immediate reaction occurs. In the case of an infant experiencing pain - it will cry out, which is a natural built-in alarm system that notifies its' parent that something is wrong because the infant is not capable of caring for self. In the case of a human being that is able to care for self, sense perception triggers an involuntary action to learn the cause of pain in order to alleviate it. In both examples the concept of wrong (experienced pain) is conveyed to the individual who is responsible for stopping the pain.

In Sikhism, Dukh Daru, Sukh Rog Bhaiya.

In the videos, we are reminded about previous natural disaster which will repeat itself again and what the govt agencies are doing to safeguard the existence of the human species. I was thinking along the lines of : Do we do our part of having one copy of our holy scripture packed into outer space or into some remote mountain hole which will survive a major catastrophe, or would we just follow the guru's teaching like ...Jaise Jal Te Budbudha, Upjai Binsai Neet....

If the fate of the wonderful Sikh religion is sealed, then I guess, I didn't do anything. HE is doing everything. What can be right, what can be wrong?

 

[spnadmin]

Thoughts from the essay,
A Remarkable Life: Dr. Jaswant Singh Neki

by RAVINDER SINGH TANEJA

...
"Ascribing success and accomplishment to nadar may be the humility of a Sikh, but surely, nadar shines indiscriminately on all of us. Why, then, do some of us appear to connect better with the flow of nadar? Why do these coincidences - synchronicities, if you will - appear more pronounced in some lives than others?

While I don't have the answer, I can offer a tentative explanation. The title of Dr Neki's translation of the Sikh Nitnem - Divine Intimations - offers a clue. These are sure signs of the Divine working in our everyday, mundane lives.

While nadar may open doors and talent may provide the raw material, it takes hard work, discipline, persistence and perseverance to run leading medical institutions with distinction, stay actively engaged in Sikh affairs, and turn out literary and scholarly output of a high order over a long period of time.
....
In speaking of a Sikh's engagement with the Guru Granth Sahib, Dr Neki sounded a similar note of caution. There are multiple senses in gurbani, and we can get caught up in the literal or allegorical but miss the anagogical. The mode of communication that the Guru's have employed, poetry, is not meant to be informational only - but transformational as well. Poetry is letting the WORD be heard beyond the literal meaning of the textual words. Gurbani must not just be read and understood but "ingested", which involves assimilation and absorption.

It is this natural amalgamation of science and poetry, of combining metaphor and analogy - of multiple senses and ways of looking at Reality - that is so visible in Dr Neki's work, and gives it a beauty and transcendence that can be transporting. An example from Sada Vigas comes to mind.

In an essay on the different dimensions of transcendence ( Pargamta Da Deedar), Dr Neki uses the reproductive process as an illustration of transcending oneself (haumai) in an exquisitely poetic way: the metaphor of a delirious lover used for the male sperm; its wiggling tail as a sign of its delight in finding the beloved female egg, and in the ultimate loss of a separate sense of self that results from the union.

While such a fruitful combination of the scientific and poetic outlook within an individual like Dr Neki may be deemed nadar, it is nonetheless an attitude that we need to consciously cultivate."

Just beautiful. Thank you Tejwant Singh ji for the original article.
At this link sikhchic.com | The Art and Culture of the Diaspora | A Remarkable Life: Dr. Jaswant Singh Neki