Sikh Sangat Challanged Prof. Darshan Singh On Distorting Dasam Granth Bani

[dalbirk]

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib Ji only .As at the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's passing away , no book by the name of Dasham Granth existed . Also it is commonly believed that the entire' Vidya Sagar' carrying the works of Tenth Guruji & court poets was washed away in river Sarsa while leaving Anandpur Sahib . Sikh Missionary College , Ludhiana brought out a tract ' Dasham Granth Darpan ' as back as in 1983 detailing whole opinions of scholars since the first compilation of Dasham Granth . Akal Takht Sahib Ji with the support & opinion of scholars & all religious bodies should try to solve this matter for once & all , as it is a potent tool in the hands of Anti- Sikh forces like RSS/BJP at present . But it is for sure , raising of this controversy in 300th yrs of Guruship of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is certainly very very shameful & points to some deeper schemes at work . Daily Spokesman is certainly an anti-Panthic newspaper which is promoting atheism by raising doubts& confuse the Sikh sangat about the concept of Amrit Vela , Nitnem Banis , Amrit Maryada , Shabad Guru to Guru Granth sahib ( Guru Granth sahib Ji is another ordinary book ) , the Gurbani translations of Professor Sahib Singh Ji , trying to promote his own versions of translations . Spokesman in the garb of Panthic newspaper is actually playing in hands of Anti-Sikh forces by striking at the very roots & foundation of those principles which is the baisis of Sikh identity & existence .
Regards ,
Dalbir Singh

 

[kp_cool79]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA
WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
I have been listning a lot in the past few months bout the controveries about DASAM GRANTH , I have also seen some of the presentations of these , stating that DASAM GRANTH is not tobe taken as a holy book or a book to be respected .
Links for the presentations are follows : -
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7977501113827721810&q=&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8615959067999002487&q=&hl=en

Kindly resolve this metter urgently and PLEASE have the last word of SRI AKAL TAKHT SAHIB.
Try not to become fun or a thing to laugh on for the world.
Gur Fateh,
K.P.

Sikh Sangat challanged Prof. Darshan Singh on distorting Dasam Granth Bani

Sikh Sangat challanged Prof. Darshan Singh on distorting Dasam Granth Bani
Posted in: Asia
By SSNews
Jan 14, 2008 - 4:54:04 PM
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Amritsar: Akhand kirtani jatha has warned Prof Darshan Singh that he should discuss with them Dasam Granth and Vaar of Bhai Gurdass singh ji in presence of international media, panthic scholars and Sikh sangat. The spokesman of Jatha, Dr Balwinder Singh and eleven member committee member Bhai Mohkam Singh in a press note stated that they will prove that Prof Darshan Singh is preaching against Gurbani and playing into the hands of anti Sikh forces.

It is worth to mention that Prof Darshan Singh on Jan 5 birthday of sahib Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj spoke against Bachitra natak, Dasam Granth and Hemkunt sahib in Gurudwara Rakab Ganj, Delhi. It hurt the sangat present there and their religious feelings were outraged. Some young men opposed it in Diwan Hall and a stampede was created there thereby everyone left the Gurudwara. Direct relay of programme from TV was also canceled.

Akhand kirtani jatha said if Darshan singh considers himself wiser than panthic scholars then he should have debate with Prof Jodh Singh, Giani Sher Singh Ambala, Kanwar Ajit singh, Dr Anokh Singh Bhatinda in presence of media and sangat on Dasam Granth and Bhai Gurdas Singh ji 2nd.

 

[kp_cool79]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA
WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
I have been listning a lot in the past few months bout the controveries about DASAM GRANTH , I have also seen some of the presentations of these , stating that DASAM GRANTH is not tobe taken as a holy book or a book to be respected .
Links for the presentations are follows : -
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7977501113827721810&q=&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8615959067999002487&q=&hl=en

Kindly resolve this metter urgently and PLEASE have the last word of SRI AKAL TAKHT SAHIB.
Try not to become fun or a thing to laugh on for the world.
Gur Fateh,
K.P.

Sikh Sangat challanged Prof. Darshan Singh on distorting Dasam Granth Bani

Sikh Sangat challanged Prof. Darshan Singh on distorting Dasam Granth Bani
Posted in: Asia
By SSNews
Jan 14, 2008 - 4:54:04 PM
Digg this story!
Email this article
Printer friendly page


Amritsar: Akhand kirtani jatha has warned Prof Darshan Singh that he should discuss with them Dasam Granth and Vaar of Bhai Gurdass singh ji in presence of international media, panthic scholars and Sikh sangat. The spokesman of Jatha, Dr Balwinder Singh and eleven member committee member Bhai Mohkam Singh in a press note stated that they will prove that Prof Darshan Singh is preaching against Gurbani and playing into the hands of anti Sikh forces.

It is worth to mention that Prof Darshan Singh on Jan 5 birthday of sahib Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj spoke against Bachitra natak, Dasam Granth and Hemkunt sahib in Gurudwara Rakab Ganj, Delhi. It hurt the sangat present there and their religious feelings were outraged. Some young men opposed it in Diwan Hall and a stampede was created there thereby everyone left the Gurudwara. Direct relay of programme from TV was also canceled.

Akhand kirtani jatha said if Darshan singh considers himself wiser than panthic scholars then he should have debate with Prof Jodh Singh, Giani Sher Singh Ambala, Kanwar Ajit singh, Dr Anokh Singh Bhatinda in presence of media and sangat on Dasam Granth and Bhai Gurdas Singh ji 2nd.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib Ji only .As at the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's passing away , no book by the name of Dasham Granth existed . Also it is commonly believed that the entire' Vidya Sagar' carrying the works of Tenth Guruji & court poets was washed away in river Sarsa while leaving Anandpur Sahib . Sikh Missionary College , Ludhiana brought out a tract ' Dasham Granth Darpan ' as back as in 1983 detailing whole opinions of scholars since the first compilation of Dasham Granth . Akal Takht Sahib Ji with the support & opinion of scholars & all religious bodies should try to solve this matter for once & all , as it is a potent tool in the hands of Anti- Sikh forces like RSS/BJP at present . But it is for sure , raising of this controversy in 300th yrs of Guruship of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is certainly very very shameful & points to some deeper schemes at work . Daily Spokesman is certainly an anti-Panthic newspaper which is promoting atheism by raising doubts& confuse the Sikh sangat about the concept of Amrit Vela , Nitnem Banis , Amrit Maryada , Shabad Guru to Guru Granth sahib ( Guru Granth sahib Ji is another ordinary book ) , the Gurbani translations of Professor Sahib Singh Ji , trying to promote his own versions of translations . Spokesman in the garb of Panthic newspaper is actually playing in hands of Anti-Sikh forces by striking at the very roots & foundation of those principles which is the baisis of Sikh identity & existence .
Regards ,
Dalbir Singh

Bhai Sahib,

The tract by Sikh missioary collage was based upon the work of Gyani Bhag Singh Ji Ambala,who in turn used the Phd thesis of Jaggi Rattan Singh Ji.

Jaggi Sahib since then has changed his stand from Anti to pro Dasham Granth Sahib ,perhaps having some financial gains from people near to late Baba Virsa Singh Ji or due to understanding Guru Granth Sahib Ji correctly.

Gyani Ambala Sahib ji were declared Tankhiya for his book and only after he repented,he was admitted back.
Sri Dasam Granth of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Bhag Singh Ambala santsipahi.org
At present tract from sikh missioary collage is been withrwan
.Sri Dasam Granth of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji santsipahi.org

laslty as per Rahit Namah Bhai Desa Singh term Dasmi Granth did exist in the time of Guru.

ਦੁਹੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਮੈਂ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੋਈ॥ ਚੁੰਨ ਚੁੰਨ ਕੰਠ ਕਰੇ ਨਿਤ ਸੋਈ॥ ਦਸਮੀਂ ਆਦਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਦਿਨ ਜੇਤੇ॥ ਪੁਰਬ ਸਮਾਨ ਕਹੇ ਹੈ ਤੇਤੇ॥ ਨਹੁ ਸਿੰਘ ਇਕ ਬਚਨ ਹਮਾਰਾ। ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਹਮ ਨੇ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰਾ। ਪੁਨ ਅਕਾਲ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਜੋ ਕਹੀ। ਬੇਦ ਸਮਾਨ ਪਾਠ ਜੋ ਅਹੀ। ਪੁਨ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਬਨਵਾਯੋ। ਸੋਢਿ ਬੰਧ ਜਹ ਕਤਾ ਸੁਹਾਯੋ। ਪੁਨ ਕੋ ਚੰਡੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਣਾਏ। ਅਮਤਰ ਕੇ ਸਭ ਕਬਿ ਮਨ ਭਏ। ਗਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਬੋਧ ਹਮ ਕਹਾ। ਜਸ ਪਾਠ ਕਰ ਹਰਿ ਪਦ ਲਹਾ। ਪੁਨ ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਨੀ। ਬਰਨਨ ਕਰਾ ਸਮਝੀ ਸਭ ਗਯਾਨੰ। ਦੱਤਾਤ੍ਰੇਯਾ ਕੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੁਨਾਏ। ਪੁਨ ਬਚਿਤਰ ਬਖਯਾਨ ਬਨਾਏ। ਤ੍ਰਿਨ ਕੋ ਭੀ ਇਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਖਾਨਾ। ਪੜ੍ਹੇ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਸੇ ਹੋਇ ਸਯਾਨਾ। ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹਜ਼ਾਰੇ ਕੇ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ। ਸਬੈ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਨ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਈ। ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਹਿਤ ਕਰਿ ਬਰਨ ਸਵਾਰੀ। ਪੁਨ ਕਹ ਗਤ ਨ ਕਹੂੰ ਉਚਾਰੀ। ਚਾਰ ਸੈ ਚਾਰ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਨਾਏ ਜਹਾਂ ਜੁਣਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਛਲ ਦਿਖਰਾਏ।
ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ , 32, 38 ॥


Kala Afghana Sahib said that term Granth could not be used by a Sikh for any other book.

He forgot to read Japu Ji Sahib where First Talks of "Asankh Granth Mukh Ved Path".

Then he showing his intelligenc in book volu 10 of Vipran Ki reet to Sach Da Marg says that reading the Bani bani chosen only is not OK.But here we are been told to do Kanth or to memorise it.

Das does not find anything wrong if some part of Guru Granth Sahib Ji are told to be rembered for ever,thenn what is wrong with Dasham Granth Sahib Ji? Say for nitneem,if we are in jungle and without gutka(small book) then we can still read Japu Ji Sahib,if we rember them.

Remebering whole book like Muslims do for Holy Kuran or some niuhngs do for whole Adi Guru Darbar or Dasham Guru Darbar is more like a donkey laden with text as in both the cases they seldon understand the essance of thier thier respective texts.Akal Bless.

 

[svea00]

I have a humble question... is there any english version of the Dasham Granth Sahib ji around to download? Couldn´t find one on the internet. My gurmukhi might take some more years to develop, so far.
I´m thankful for all your help.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh.

 

[kds1980]

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib

Here is the Dasam granth in english

 

[ballym]

Response


Now people like Darshan singh who had been doing kirtan of DG banis all his life and made money from it is turning other way around.At best this is hypocricy and treachery.

DID HE EVER say that dasam granth is eqaul to SGGS Ji, he may not even thought about it at that time because there was no controversy. He just did kirtan and katha by taking its wording.
NOW people have started equating it to SGGSji and he has to inform us all that it is not EQAUL.
All along we had no doubt about supremacyof SGGS Ji but now suddenly it has cropped up.
Please see my other contributions to the forum.

 

[vikram9274]

DID HE EVER say that dasam granth is eqaul to SGGS Ji, he may not even thought about it at that time because there was no controversy. He just did kirtan and katha by taking its wording.
NOW people have started equating it to SGGSji and he has to inform us all that it is not EQAUL.
All along we had no doubt about supremacyof SGGS Ji but now suddenly it has cropped up.
Please see my other contributions to the forum.

But who is equating it to the SGGS? I don't see the common sikh removing SGGS and replacing it with Dasam Granth. Most people haven't even read the Dasam Granth. So how can you say people are calling it Guru? Time and time again it has been said by just about every member who has posted about Dasam Granth that most people have not read Dasam Granth, so your argument that it is being equated to SGGS doesn't make much sense. Every gurdwara has prakash of SGGS and the few that have Dasam Granth also have SGGS prakashed. SO that argument doesn't make any sense to me. Unless he is raising all this controversy over those few people or gurdwaras who also treat Dasam Granth as bani? Seem pretty stupid to start all this controversy over a few people or gurdwaras especially when they are not directly rejecting SGGS but just considering Dasam Granth as Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani. All this anti-panthic bickering and controversy is destroying our panth. All I have to say to all anti-dasam granth (ragi, afgana, etc.) and pro-DG (jathedars, sants, etc.) people is: Either get together and talk about it or shut up. Stop dividing the panth.

 

[International Akaali]

vikram is it ok to take hukamnama from dasam granth?

 

[spnadmin]

In some sampardayas of Sikhism hukamnama is taken from the so-called "Dasam Granth." There has been for decades tolerance coming from respect for the histories of these traditions.

Myabe we found out that tolerance is not a two-way street. Professor had already been "excommunicated" by the jathedar of Patna Sahib in a separate proceeding in 2008. In other words, some think it is OK to call someone (e.g., Professor Darshan Singh) to India for discipline for asking questions of concern to the panth at large. Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib do not represent the panth at large. Why is Akal Takht following in their heels? Is there not some other agenda at play? Akal Takht does not represent 4 of the historical sampardayas, of which 2 give equal parkash to "Dasam Granth." Any other time this would be considered a conflict of interest. It follows that Professor's questions to not rise to the level of an undermining of principles fundamental to Sikhism, as per the Sikh Rehat Marayda. And if they did then that is reason why a Gurmatta should have been called. But it was not.

It does not surprise me that bickering continues. It usually does when there are continued acts that run contrary to rules of established governance.

 

[ballym]

Can I be a sikh without being a Khalsa ?

 

[spnadmin]

Can I be a sikh without being a Khalsa ?

Before anyone answers What is khalsa?

 

[ballym]

the group of initiated Sikhs to which devout orthodox Sikhs are ritually admitted at puberty; founded by the tenth and last Guru in 1699
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn -

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Khalsa baptism ceremony involves drinking of Amrit (sugar water stirred with a dagger) in the presence of 5 Khalsa Sikhs as well as the Guru Granth Sahib. The initiate is instructed in the following; (a) You shall never remove any hair from any part of thy body, (b) You shall not use tobacco, alcohol or any other intoxicants, (c) You shall not eat the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way, (d) You shall not commit adultery. The initiate is required to wear the physical symbols of a Khalsa at all times as well as follow the Khalsa Code of Conduct.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The Sikhism Home Page: The Khalsa
Comments from Sikh Scholars

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Retention of the Five K's, Paper by Dr. Jarnail Singh[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The baptism of a Sikh has to be voluntary act, ie., the person has to offer himself, and the ceremony can be performed by five individuals already baptized. The baptism in Sikhism is a further stage and a person could stay in the Sikh faith for a long time without being baptized. While wearing of the five K's is not obligatory for non-baptized Sikhs, they do start wearing these symbols long before being baptized. In a sense it is the evolution of the individual towards the final goal, keeping of unshorn hair is usually the start of the process. Hence every Sikh, baptized or not, has the right to wear these symbols.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sikhism: A Complete Introduction by Dr. H.S. Singha and Satwant Kaur, Hemkunt Press, Delhi
The basic transformation in the concept of an ideal Sikh from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh is the transformation from a Sikh to a Singh. A Singh is a person who has reached the goal; who has realised the Self and whose own self is therfore no more; whose ego and little personality are shed off and destroyed; and who thus has no proper particular home and so is designated by the generic term Singh so long as he is active in the social and political context of the Sikh way of life. The term Sikh on the other hand implies a person who is a learner, who is set on the path of spiritual perfection and self-realization but who has not yet fully realised the Self, who has not yet found the Truth in entirety. When a Sikh reaches the final goal and ceases to act with the fulcrum of his ego, he becomes a Singh, the perfected one. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Question of Sikh Identity, Paper by Gurutej Singh
As long as Sikhs refuse to practice daily the lifestyle set down by the ten Gurus, there will always be ignorance, in-fighting, slandering, and lack of co-operation and communication between Sikhs as well as between Sikhs and non-Sikhs. Politics will continue to take precedent over prayer, because people forget how to pray or become so comfortable with material possessions that prayer becomes redundant. It is only through daily Sadhana, doing path, living together as community, refraining from alcohol and drugs, singing Gurbani Kirtan, chanting God's name, and living in God-given form, that a Sikh becomes a Sikh. To discuss who's a Sikh and who's not a Sikh beyond this is meaningless. [/FONT]
----------------------
As far i know, SGPC has declared Khalsa as the only sikhs.
[/FONT]

 

[spnadmin]

ballym ji

You have noticed and have noted that the question is not answered so simply. :idea:

 

[spnadmin]

ballym ji

I am not trying to derail you but want to acknowledge that you are asking difficult questions. And controversy rages on forums about who is "khalsa" and even more controversy about who is a "sikh."

The current definition from the Sikh Rehat Maryada is :

[SIZE=-1] CHAPTER 1
The Definition of Sikh :

Article I
Any human being who faithfully believes in
i. One Immortal Being,
ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib,
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1] v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion,

is a Sikh[/SIZE]​

]But this definition is under review even as we speak. The definition comes from the 1971 version of SRM. Afoot now are proposals to add "is keshdhari" and to remove "believes in one immortal Being." As it now reads, one must believe in baptism and presumably by believing one would eventually be baptized. I do not read that to be sikh one must be "khalsa" (that is baptized) as stated in the dictionary definition that you have provided. But there are many who do believe that and they are adamant.

I do not know where that leaves a lot of people, including those born in Sikh families who practice Sikhi, but who are not amritdhari. There are some who say that if you are not baptized you are only a friend of the Guru.

How do you connect this to the current discussion. Very interesting.

 

[ballym]

ballym ji

I am not trying to derail you but want to acknowledge that you are asking difficult questions. And controversy rages on forums about who is "khalsa" and even more controversy about who is a "sikh."

]But this definition is under review even as we speak. The definition comes from the 1971 version of SRM. Afoot now are proposals to add "is keshdhari" and to remove "believes in one immortal Being." As it now reads, one must believe in baptism and presumably by believing one would eventually be baptized. I do not read that to be sikh one must be "khalsa" (that is baptized) as stated in the dictionary definition that you have provided. But there are many who do believe that and they are adamant.

I do not know where that leaves a lot of people, including those born in Sikh families who practice Sikhi, but who are not amritdhari. There are some who say that if you are not baptized you are only a friend of the Guru.

How do you connect this to the current discussion. Very interesting.

I wrote to ask exactly waht you are asking... what about people like me?
Why r we reducing our own population?
Asking difficult question only develops the religion and understanding. For example , you must test a friend when you need him most. In native language.. Bure waqt main jo kaam aaye wohi saccha dost hai... I hope u r ok with hindi/ Punjaabi.
Same way, unless one can explain , to the satisfaction of the person asking( except mischief makers who just want to ask difficult question to make fun),About religion or any other matter without getting agitated, he/she is not good enough and can not be relied upon.

just today, I was on sikhsangat and had to stop writing.

I have noticed that people from punjab/ WestPunjab area get agitated easily and others have used this trait( Intelligence bureau of India may have used this trait to infilter into sikhs.
they are changing SR maryada to suite their own needs.
Another point ( Controversial): If rehat Maryada can be changed,then why can not we change other things in religion?
In my view, religion should not be FORCED on others, let everybody have it their own way but within a limit. If u start making it a military code, then you will only produce fanatics and your religion will die.
I think it may happen to us especially when we do not believe in muslim ways of procreation. they aremultiplying at high speed.
We should increase our daayra not restrict it.
Welcome all...I think that as the message of our Guru.
Now a days I see only turbaned people coming to Gurudwara mostly.

 

[spnadmin]

ballym ji

I hear you and your voice is coming through very clearly! Want to let some others come into comment now. However, fanaticism is on the rise and the ability to learn from one another is sinking just as fast. I could say more - I will be quiet for now.

:happykaur:

 

[BKaur]

Gurfateh Parwaan ji,

First of all we should respect Prof Darshan Singh Ji. I am 101% with Prof Darshan Singh ji.
We have only one Guru Granth Sahib ji. Dasan Guru Gobind SIngh ji has given the Guru-Gadhi to Guru Granth Sahib No question should be raised.
Thank you

With Gurfateh

BKaur

 

[roab1]

Response

At best this is hypocricy and treachery.

inder singhji what do you call this?


www(put DOT here)flickr.com/photos/ramansingh/4203367228/

 

[Jagmeet_hazursahib]

WHU r v 2 challenge d authenticity of respectable DashamGranth completely written by Sri Guru GobindSinghji Maharaj?