Sikh Millitant Groups Seeking Volunteers From US India

[spnadmin]

Kee Jaana Main kaun Ji ,
Actually I'm a Singh based in Ludhiana . I suppose you like SAD ( Panch Pardhani ) Bittu Group . Even I like Daljit Singh Bittu ji for his clear ideology like making Sikh youth free from Alcohalism , drugs with which it is plagued right now as well as lack of education or even the wiilingness for education . His contribution during MILITANCY days like 11 person in Baraat , the clearing of Punjab villages from DARU THEKAS are still remembered by one & sundry . However IMHO the biggest immediate challenge today in front of Sikhs is getting rid of CORRUPT BADAL without being branded terrorists by mainstream Hindu media which treats PS Badal as somebody acceptable being MODERATE . If DS Bittu Ji thinks that the path of power in Punjab goes through the Khalistan word , then I'm afraid he is either being NAIVE or simply playing into the hands of either PS Badal or Congress ( I'm not sure which one of these ) . he simply needs to look at the present condition of Simranjit Singh mann who from all 13 seats in Lok Sabha has been reduced to just a CONGRESS TOUT in the eyes of people due to lack of clear cut ideology ,plan of action . If DS Bittu Ji wishes to dislodge Badal from Chandigarh then he needs to concentrate on people's issues like Alcohal , Drugs , Education , healthcare , Deras , Sants ( Charlatans ) , try to make some sort of arrangement with Paramjit Singh Sarna ( does not matter that he is a Congress henchman ) but a lot better than Badal who is a RSS pointman hence more dangerous for coming SGPC elections . Any indulgence in any other adventure may result in a huge shock for Bittu Ji from the people of Punjab . I'm telling the ground realities today , there is not even 0.000001% of support for K word in Punjab today let alone the cause . One thing I always wonder , why is such a bankruptcy of new ideas & honest commitment as far as Sikh leadership is concerened ? Such a dynamic & revolutionary ideology is producing just dogs who are looking for leftovers only ( maria Shikar khaan wale ) , such a shame .

kee_jaana_mein_kaum ji

I have reposted the comments of respected forum member Dalbir Singh ji. And surely some of us are wondering how you came to your conclusions in the previous post based on what Dalbir ji wrote. Take it line by line if you have to.

There is not a single sentence that leads me to your conclusions -- suggesting that you have a set agenda, have made no effort to consider what other people say with open eyes and an open mind, open to the actual evidence as opposed to your theory of righteousness.

This is very disrespectful. Your methods are no different from a fanatical Christian, Muslim, or Sikh who is here to push an agenda which requires rigid acceptance of your way of thinking. You are playing a game -- played by thousands before you -- who are and were doctrinaire members of religious and political organizations for whom narrow and inflexible ideology is/was used to damn the world. This is the same game played by Pol Pot in Cambodia, the Gang of Four in China, the MauMau in Kenya, the TonTon Macoute in Hairi. All keepers of the keys to an exclusive club for whom "purity" is a dirty word to everyone else.

And you and people like you run others away who might have seen the logic of much of what you say but are nauseated by the hatred and animosity that you monger.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

kee_jaana_mein_kaum ji

I have reposted the comments of respected forum member Dalbir Singh ji. And surely some of us are wondering how you came to your conclusions in the previous post based on what Dalbir ji wrote. Take it line by line if you have to.

There is not a single sentence that leads me to your conclusions -- suggesting that you have a set agenda, have made no effort to consider what other people say with open eyes and an open mind, open to the actual evidence as opposed to your theory of righteousness.

This is very disrespectful. Your methods are no different from a fanatical Christian, Muslim, or Sikh who is here to push an agenda which requires rigid acceptance of your way of thinking. You are playing a game -- played by thousands before you -- who are and were doctrinaire members of religious and political organizations for whom narrow and inflexible ideology is/was used to damn the world. This is the same game played by Pol Pot in Cambodia, the Gang of Four in China, the MauMau in Kenya, the TonTon Macoute in Hairi. All keepers of the keys to an exclusive club for whom "purity" is a dirty word to everyone else.

And you and people like you run others away who might have seen the logic of much of what you say but are nauseated by the hatred and animosity that you monger.

Narayanjot Kaur ji,

Sorry menu kujh samajh nahi aaya uppar kee likhya

May be you have hatred towards Khalistan(Raaj Karega Khalsa) that is why you are trying to delete or comment on each of my posts.May be you are trying to promote some agenda.Forum's are for exchanging different and opposite views and not according to what Admins think is right.

I only asked him to not rely on any media reports and get out of the city and go to the villages to learn more .

As he is saying there is bankruptcy of ideas then he should mention which new ideas he has ?There is nothing as sacred as self respect and to be master's of one's own destiny.I dont know how this means picking on left overs.By the way both Mann and Bittu are founders of Khalistan movement and they are picking up from where they left not the left overs.

And just to conclude no problem of Punjab can be solved without self rule."Raj bina naa dharm chalay hai.." expressly says that religion can not flourish until there is self rule .This has been said by our Gurus and not by Bittu or Mann or me or anyone else.This is not agenda of some political party or the list like Pol pot etc you have given ,it is agenda of our Gurus.That is why Khalsa Raaj came into being.Why do we people say "Raaj Karega Khalsa,aaki rahay na koi.." in each ardas ?Just for formality sake ?Those who do not realise it now will ultimately realise it when it is too late.

If some one is not concerned about Punjab's problem and is only concerned about his daily routine then he/she should not comment on this issue at all.

 

[spnadmin]

kee_jaana_mein_kaun ji

My response and a general reaction at the end.

Narayanjot Kaur ji,

Sorry menu kujh samajh nahi aaya uppar kee likhya

May be you have hatred towards Khalistan(Raaj Karega Khalsa) that is why you are trying to delete or comment on each of my posts.May be you are trying to promote some agenda.

Most of the time the expression Raaj Karega Khalsa is not equated with Khalistan. When it is, that is a term of art for individuals who are linking a geopolitical entity i.e., Khalistan with the rule of the Khalsa. A very specific application of the term. You overgeneralize the meaning here an in one other place.

More typical of your style of debate is to assume thoughts, feelings, and motives of other members -- this time you assume that I may have hatred toward Khalistan -- and then you sling vigorous and antagonistic accusations toward the other person based on.. on what? On your assumptions. Who cannot help but be offended by that sort of behavior.You assume you know more about me/another than I or the other know about who we are and what we believe. That in my book is arrogance.



Forum's are for exchanging different and opposite views and not according to what Admins think is right.

Forums are for exchanging different and opposite views with respect and decency. Admins decide when TOS have been broken. Do not presume to know once again that you know more than anyone else.

I only asked him to not rely on any media reports and get out of the city and go to the villages to learn more .

You however have not convinced me, Admin, that you can do that in a civilized fashion.

And just to conclude no problem of Punjab can be solved without self rule."Raj bina naa dharm chalay hai.." expressly says that religion can not flourish until there is self rule .

I am really sorry that you have given the statement "Raj bina naa dharm chalay hai." your own personal twist, one that favors you own sense of self-importance.


If some one is not concerned about Punjab's problem and is only concerned about his daily routine then he/she should not comment on this issue at all.

There you go again. You don't have the authority to decide who is permitted to respond to any comment on any thread. You just think you do.

Great. Take a break. I think you need a break too! Don't forget you yourself set forth your own agenda. No one forced you. I will save the remainder of my impressions when you return from your break -- unless of course you have a change of mind and attitude.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

NO RELIGION CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT SOVEREIGNITY.

This is evident from the position of Sikhs here in Punjab these days.Without sovereignity Sikhism and Punjabi language will be finished.
Sikhism is the only religion which does not have it's own state.

Hindus got Hindustan
Muslims got Pakistan
Sikhs got 1984

 

[spnadmin]

Please explain then, kee_jaana_mein_kaun ji how Christianity, Judaism, Hindu sects of every sort, Buddhism in all it forms, Jainism, Sikhism, and dozens of other religions and sects, are now surviving in the US, UK, Canada?

If you are saying that our gurus were advocating "theocracy" as a form of government you are dead wrong and are twisting their words.

<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਰਾਜੁ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਾਰੇ ॥

</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">raaj n chaaho mukath n chaaho man preeth charan kamalaarae ||
</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.</td></tr></tbody></table>
Please see the complete shabad on Ang 354

If you yourself are advocating for a Sikh theocracy, for example Khalistan run as a theocracy, then you are courting the corruption of both religion and politics, not to mention personal freedoms. But of course, if that is what you are advocating, then we understand your posts much better. They are extremely well- informed essays, but also the rants of a religious fanatic. Please assure me I am wrong.

 

[dalbirk]

Dalbirk ji,

Forget everything.You just need to remember "Raaj bina naa dharm chalay hai.."

Jay Raaj kisay hor daa hai taan Sikh dharm kithon chaluga ?We will continue to compromise our Sikh principles with others and keep sacrificing them in the name of this and that unity .This will further result in getting more of our youth further away from Sikhi.
Without Sikh raaj deras will also continue to multiply and we'll keep loosing our females to them.Once females go that way then ultimately children will also go away from Sikhi.
The rulers will continue to encourage nashay,porn,lachar geet etc so that the Sikh youths are led astray and keep hating the Sikhi swaroop and more of them becoming patit.

You must be aware how various deras are luring and then spoiling Punjabi females.

Watch today's story :
YouTube- RSS pakhandi saadh Jaspal "Amrikawala" exposed

and this :

YouTube- PROF.DARSHAN SINGH- ASHUTOSH STORY

If you are in Punjab you must be knowing that neither Bittu nor Mann is involved in any violent activities these days but still Bhai Bittu is in jail and Mann is threatened by the hindutva forces time and again.Bittu is in jail for mobilising youth against derawaad and to discourage his party from participating in SGPC elections.

You have not seen but I have seen Bhai Bittu and Bhai Gaama's very first interview after release from jail after 11 years which was held at Darbar Sahib,Amritsar.In that interview Bhai Bittu said that people have seen our militant face and now they will see our peaceful face.

The Khalistan word has a lot more support than you think.Only thing is people are afraid to say it openly fearing the Punjab police .If you are really in Punjab then get out on the highway and count how many cars you see with Sant Bhindranwale's stickers.I recently travelled on that ludhiana ferozpur road and so many vehicles with those stickers.All of them are supporters of the K word.

As to how parties like Badal dal,Congress etc make crowds for their rallies and how they win elections is well known.They will use every means to win the SGPC elections also and their masters will help them even if it means to use illegal means .Until Sikhs are free they will continue to be at the recieving end and rules made by others will continue to be thust on them.

The way you are calling Mann a congress agent shows your affinity towards badal.No one believes in what badal says.It was people like you who used to call Sant Bhindranwale also a congress agent and perhaps still do.

If you happen to be in Punjab on 28 February,2010 then come to Hola Mohala rallies of SAD(Mann) and SAD(Panch pradhani)and see for yourself.

The bhaiyaas in major cities of Punjab plus the hindus will always vote for Congress or BJP(indirectly Badal).Since you are in the city that is why you think Khalistan support is not much.Khalistan resides in villages.Not only Sikhs in villages but also hindus in villages support it.

When all means fail it is righteous to raise the sword if some one's rights are being wrongly infringed.

These days Sikhs are begging for justice for anti Sikh genocides of 1984 and are getting nothing.Ultimately they will realise that the only way to get justice in India is the way KCF punished Lalit Maken,Dharmdaas Shashtri.

At the moment Khalistan movement is in it's peaceful phase but if the govt leaves no option then some youth may take up arms even though their leaders like Mann or Bittu may not like it.

IMHO kee jaana ji ,
The mass support you are talking of is supposedly MONA SIKHS living in villages of Punjab ( there are no Sabat Surat left in villages anyhow ) . Can we have a check list of this supporter base as regards their ideology of a Sikh State named K..... .
1. How many of this youth can spell the name of TEN GURUS in sequence ?
2. How many of these youth are TEETOTALLERS ie do not touch liquor ?
3. How many of these youth do not consume any tobbacco product like Jarda , Cigerrate , Beedi etc ?
4. How many do not consume any intoxicant like Dodey , Opium , Bhukki , Smack or Heroin ?
5 . How many of these do not indulge in pre-marital sex or extra-marital sex?
6. How many of them do not have their ears pierced or wear earrings ?
7. How many of these work 10-12 hours daily if they are not students earning enough to support whole families ?
8 . If they are students how many are studying 4 hours daily after college ? How many of them are post-graduate with good grades aiming for livelihood ie Job Worthy candidates capable of getting jobs in India ?
9. How many of these get up at AMRIT VELA & do simran ?
10. How many of these have heard about Sikh Rehat Maryada & are aware of its contents ?
11. How many of them have not gone to Pir's grave on Thursdays or visited Naina Devi while visiting Anandpur Sahib , have not consulted any Astrologer regularly ? How many of these do not seek blessings of some Sant , Babaji regularly ?
IMHO the rural youth of Punjab is gravely mislead today , they are infact unguided (misguided ) missiles who can destroy anyone before they are finally themselves destroyed . These youth have infact EAT,DRINK & MAKE MERRY as their ONLY motto in life . They just want to get rich overnight without doing any hard work , show off our wealth by reckless spending , earn accolades ,become famous , live life in fast lane & die quickly ( very young age ) . They are infact street loitering raanjhas , lazy , idle , good for nothing street romeos (gali de ashiq ). Some days ago a Sikh gentleman who was trying to migrate to Canada just asked me the why Hindu Banias have so much money ? Whether it is their fortune guided by some good Astrologer Pandit or is it just in blood ? To which I replied that a Bania will strictly match his daily cash transactions ( Roznamcha ) will not go home till it is matched even if it is 11 PM . This is just one example in addition to their frugual, simple lifestyle as well a penchant for writing,recording each & every transaction , 12-14 hours daily duty at work shop/industry ? How many of us are that disciplined ? Not even one among a million ? We are not willing to discipline ourselves , not willing to do hard work but keep an eye on others' money , affluence . We just want to spend money , do AISH . There is just no more aim of our lives . Then somebody comes up with a slogan we just rush after him , free langar , free transport , leave from work . Does not matter if that guy is a Dere Wala Baba , a rapist Sant ( charlatan ) , A Khalistani , A Kabbadi Tournament organiser ( who is infact a Kabootarbaaz ) , a Politician anybody in the whole world , we do not give a damn to his credential . We only live for today ( AJJ DI DIAHRI ) . There is no such word as PLANNING or FUTURE in our dictionary . We have all the symptoms of a CRIMINAL MENTALITY without an iota of morality inside us . For us RAAJ KAREGA KHALSA is to have a free loot of others money earned by them through 24/7 hardwork . I certainly suppose this is not what the GURUS had in mind . Actually IMHO the GURUS had exactly the opposite in their mind & will . So we have to decide which way to go . WJKK WJKF .

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

IMHO kee jaana ji ,
The mass support you are talking of is supposedly MONA SIKHS living in villages of Punjab ( there are no Sabat Surat left in villages anyhow ) . Can we have a check list of this supporter base as regards their ideology of a Sikh State named K..... .
1. How many of this youth can spell the name of TEN GURUS in sequence ?
2. How many of these youth are TEETOTALLERS ie do not touch liquor ?
3. How many of these youth do not consume any tobbacco product like Jarda , Cigerrate , Beedi etc ?
4. How many do not consume any intoxicant like Dodey , Opium , Bhukki , Smack or Heroin ?
5 . How many of these do not indulge in pre-marital sex or extra-marital sex?
6. How many of them do not have their ears pierced or wear earrings ?
7. How many of these work 10-12 hours daily if they are not students earning enough to support whole families ?
8 . If they are students how many are studying 4 hours daily after college ? How many of them are post-graduate with good grades aiming for livelihood ie Job Worthy candidates capable of getting jobs in India ?
9. How many of these get up at AMRIT VELA & do simran ?
10. How many of these have heard about Sikh Rehat Maryada & are aware of its contents ?
11. How many of them have not gone to Pir's grave on Thursdays or visited Naina Devi while visiting Anandpur Sahib , have not consulted any Astrologer regularly ? How many of these do not seek blessings of some Sant , Babaji regularly ?
IMHO the rural youth of Punjab is gravely mislead today , they are infact unguided (misguided ) missiles who can destroy anyone before they are finally themselves destroyed . These youth have infact EAT,DRINK & MAKE MERRY as their ONLY motto in life . They just want to get rich overnight without doing any hard work , show off our wealth by reckless spending , earn accolades ,become famous , live life in fast lane & die quickly ( very young age ) . They are infact street loitering raanjhas , lazy , idle , good for nothing street romeos (gali de ashiq ). Some days ago a Sikh gentleman who was trying to migrate to Canada just asked me the why Hindu Banias have so much money ? Whether it is their fortune guided by some good Astrologer Pandit or is it just in blood ? To which I replied that a Bania will strictly match his daily cash transactions ( Roznamcha ) will not go home till it is matched even if it is 11 PM . This is just one example in addition to their frugual, simple lifestyle as well a penchant for writing,recording each & every transaction , 12-14 hours daily duty at work shop/industry ? How many of us are that disciplined ? Not even one among a million ? We are not willing to discipline ourselves , not willing to do hard work but keep an eye on others' money , affluence . We just want to spend money , do AISH . There is just no more aim of our lives . Then somebody comes up with a slogan we just rush after him , free langar , free transport , leave from work . Does not matter if that guy is a Dere Wala Baba , a rapist Sant ( charlatan ) , A Khalistani , A Kabbadi Tournament organiser ( who is infact a Kabootarbaaz ) , a Politician anybody in the whole world , we do not give a damn to his credential . We only live for today ( AJJ DI DIAHRI ) . There is no such word as PLANNING or FUTURE in our dictionary . We have all the symptoms of a CRIMINAL MENTALITY without an iota of morality inside us . For us RAAJ KAREGA KHALSA is to have a free loot of others money earned by them through 24/7 hardwork . I certainly suppose this is not what the GURUS had in mind . Actually IMHO the GURUS had exactly the opposite in their mind & will . So we have to decide which way to go . WJKK WJKF .

Simple answer to ALL the above questions is :

"Without Sikh sovereignity Sikh religion is being finished and will ultimately diminish"

So "Sikh religion CAN NOT survive without sovereignity" as is evident from all the above questions which shows the present position of the Sikhs as we are ruled by some other people who have no interest in spreading Sikhi ,in fact want to finish it.In fact by giving such a big list of present position of Sikhs you have yourself expressed anguish at present state Sikhi today but you have neither given the reason for all this or the solution.

Khalistan is not a theocratic state and will ultimately benefit the females the most .We have personally experienced Khalistan for a brief period the popularity of which enraged the GOI so much that they thought of finishing the Khalistanis by hook or by crook.The new generation does not even know about that.You need to listen to interviews and speeches of various Khalistani leaders and groups whom you call terrorists like Sant Bhindranwale,Man,Bittu or even Babbar Khalsa to clearly understand the concept.

Khalistan is in fact opposite of theocracy and will be governed on the principle of "Raaj Karega Khalsa" and "Sarbat daa bhaala".Khalsa never hits downtroden or innocent people but never leaves a criminal.In fact India at present is a theocratic hindu state and no where near a democracy.Anything which is not in line with the principles of baahmanvaad are rejected.That is why each nook and corner of India Northeast,Kashmir,Khalistan,the entire South,including 40,000 kms(naxal area) are fighting.

Listen to ALL parts of the interviews of these so called "terrorists"
if you have the guts :

YouTube- Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu-Khalistan Interview-1

YouTube- Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu-Khalistan Interview-2

YouTube- Khalistan Interview-1

Watch ALL 4 parts of the above interview to get the real picture​

YouTube- Khalistan is our birth right-3

YouTube- Khalistan Speech-12 February 2010---Part 1

YouTube- Khalistan Speech-12 February 2010---Part 2

It is being clearly said in the above video that first Khalistan will be formed ONLY THEN can the youth be saved from becoming patit and from all that is listed by Dalbirk.In other words without Khalistan the list which Dalbirk has mentioned will continue to increase​

I know many people will simply not listen and watch the above saying it is Khalistani propoganda or some agenda but if you do listen you will know it is only the truth which is hard to digest.This fight between truth and lies has been going on ever since Guru Nanak Sahab who refused to wear the jeneu and follow useless rules and regulations of the bahmanvaadi forces ever since his childhood.

For a moment remove the "Khalistan" word from the above videos and consider them as just ordinary informative videos and have the guts to point out which portion is wrong or lies in the above videos ?
A true Sikh should stand by the truth and against the lies.

The old tactics of maligning Khalistan concept by the bahman bania elite and bureucracy and their supporters(knowingly or unknowingly) is falling flat these days thanks to information technology and the internet .

Any one inside or outside Punjab may shout on top of his voice claiming that Khalistan is a criminal or theocratic state but nobody except the hindutva forces will buy that .That is the reason why the low and middle class hindus in Punjab have started supporting Khalistan openly.

Dalbirk I can see from your statements you have been brain washed by the Indian media and perhaps even by people known to you.That is why when 2 so called KLF "terrorists" were shown arrested by Punjab police you started the same ranting which media channels do after each such arrest,criminals,murders,terrorists,this and that without realising that this could simply be a ploy to malign the Khalistan movement which is picking up these days.But the lies of the Punjab police and govt were exposed by "Zee Punjabi News " itself the next day in the 4 pm news but was quickly censored so the story did not appear in the further bulletins.But this is the internet age.

As regards Sikhs outside India ie USA,Canada,Pakistan,Australia etc Sikhs faced difficulty there and were even hit after 9/11 ,the Indian govt did nothing for the Sikhs.The govt which cant do anything for Sikhs living within their own country example the 1984 and after genocide what can you expect from that govt for Sikhs living outside India.

The persons who dont support Khalistan are not even 0.000001% and that too only in the cities .It is mainly the bahman bania clan and their supporters who have always been against Sikhs,their Gurus and the concept of "Sarbat daa bhalaa" as they occupy the main posts in the bureucracy and govt posts and derive their bread and butter by dividing people on the basis of caste,creed.

Ordinary people are either supporters of Khalistan or are neutral,not against it.

Everyone must remember India's best friend Soviet Union disintegrated due to economic break down.We are heading towards that in India also.

This time the millions of the Sikh diaspora which has woken up and has more info even than the ordinary people in Punjab will play a major rule in formation of Khalistan state in which everyone irrespective of religion,caste,creed will enjoy all benefits but the rule will be according to Guru Granth Sahib and not the bahmanvaadi principles as at present.

If some Sikhs outside are sending money for the Khalistan cause voluntarily then kee_jaana_mein_kaun or dalbirk or some other should have no problem with that.

We should in fact be worried about how people like badal who was owner of just a few acres of land and whose father is responsible for poisoning a number Sikhs has managed to build such an empire with enormous wealth ?

There are many similar examples .

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

Darshan Singh not shown arrested by Punjab police even after keeping him in " illegal detention for 12 days" :

12 ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???-??? ????; ????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ???

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

Please explain then, kee_jaana_mein_kaun ji how Christianity, Judaism, Hindu sects of every sort, Buddhism in all it forms, Jainism, Sikhism, and dozens of other religions and sects, are now surviving in the US, UK, Canada?

If you are saying that our gurus were advocating "theocracy" as a form of government you are dead wrong and are twisting their words.

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="98%" align=center><TBODY><TR bgColor=#ffecec><TD class=ggs>ਰਾਜੁ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਾਰੇ ॥





</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffecec><TD class=subhead>raaj n chaaho mukath n chaaho man preeth charan kamalaarae ||




</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffecec><TD class=shlok>I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Please see the complete shabad on Ang 354

If you yourself are advocating for a Sikh theocracy, for example Khalistan run as a theocracy, then you are courting the corruption of both religion and politics, not to mention personal freedoms. But of course, if that is what you are advocating, then we understand your posts much better. They are extremely well- informed essays, but also the rants of a religious fanatic. Please assure me I am wrong.

I once again wish to confirm that Khalistan and autocracy or theocracy are exactly opposite.Khalistan concept is diametrically opposite to religious fanaticism.It is disheartening to learn that despite the advent of internet and information technology even educated and learned people are falling prey to the lies and propoganda by the bahmanvaadi state.
It seems the 10,000 dollars which they have distributed to various media including Punjabi media abroad to propogate lies and misinterpreting the Khalistan mobvement is working.The day every one understands this the propoganda of the bahmanvaadi fanatics and fascists in India will end.

Only a fool would like to live in a theocratic state or even support it. Watch all the videos I have listed in the previous post and please inform which of them is advocating theocracy and discuss it here.
If any of the above so called "terrorists"(according to India) is advocating fanaticism or theocracy I along with majority of the Sikhs will be the first to reject that person.You are in fact commiting a blunder in misunderstanding the concept of Khalistan wrongly.Perhaps 9/11 has blinded most people where as Sikhs were also the victims then.

By the way religion and politics are inseperable in Sikhism as "Miri Piri concept" mentioned by Guru Hargobind Sahib but religion should be above politics but at the moment both in Hindustan as well as Khalistan politics is above religion.

By the way these days new states are not formed with violence .Google "Kosovo" and find out.Despite being an independent autonomous state in former Yugoslavia it is protected against invasion by United Nations.

All the supporters of RSS and the Indian state just get 1 of the perpetrators of the 1984 anti Sikh riots even arrested and prosecuted with the help of RSS,hindutva forces or even ordinary hindus we will believe they are friends of Sikhs.Let alone get them prosecuted they will not participate even in protests with the Sikhs outside various courts because they themselves were involved in the genocide.

In fact India is a theocratic,bahman bania ruled state and anything which does not confirm with the bahmanvaadi concept is rejected and termed anti national.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

Dalbir Singh ji,

Do you support any party in Punjab or you dont care who rules ?

Everyone in Punjab who does not support Mann and Bittu must be supporting some party or the other ie badal or amrinder.For their info badal and amrinder are both signatories to "KHALISTAN" declaration submitted to the then UN secretrary general Boutros Ghaali which they signed at "AKAAL TAKHT" .There are proofs of this on the internet even.

Now the same amrinder and badal have run away from Khalistan because GOI has allowed them to make as much money as they like,keep girl friends,enjoy life but not to talk about rights of the Sikhs.

For them Khalistan is right if they speak for it but if Mann and Bittu speak for Khalistan then they are wrong and traitors of India.

 

[kds1980]

Everyone must remember India's best friend Soviet Union disintegrated due to economic break down.We are heading towards that in India also.

Well If this happen then there is nothing wrong in formation of a sikh country, but it is wise
for sikhs to keep their mouth shut about khalistan O/W the entire blame will be put on us.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

Well If this happen then there is nothing wrong in formation of a sikh country, but it is wise
for sikhs to keep their mouth shut about khalistan O/W the entire blame will be put on us.

OK fine,

But my sincere request is to please watch all the videos on the following page properly and discuss in this forum which point is wrong in these videos ?

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/121423-post26.html

After all we are not fools to accept any Sikh advocating a theocratic state as our leader.Moreover we will never support anyone who is working against the interest of Sikhs or even Punjabis and Punjab in general.

As regards blame then please could you list how many of those who suffered in 1984 anti Sikh pogroms were Khalistan supporters ?Most of them were in fact congress supporters.

So be vigilant and prepared whether you are in Punjab or outside.

 

[dalbirk]

Dalbir Singh ji,

Do you support any party in Punjab or you dont care who rules ?

Everyone in Punjab who does not support Mann and Bittu must be supporting some party or the other ie badal or amrinder.For their info badal and amrinder are both signatories to "KHALISTAN" declaration submitted to the then UN secretrary general Boutros Ghaali which they signed at "AKAAL TAKHT" .There are proofs of this on the internet even.

Now the same amrinder and badal have run away from Khalistan because GOI has allowed them to make as much money as they like,keep girl friends,enjoy life but not to talk about rights of the Sikhs.

For them Khalistan is right if they speak for it but if Mann and Bittu speak for Khalistan then they are wrong and traitors of India.

NO Kee jaana ji ,
I'm not in favour of Khalistan . It is my belief that India is not going to disintegrate any time soon. Some months ago I saw in TV some Kashmiri Old persons saying about the militancy wave in Kashmir , they said it was a mistake to have indulged in voilence . We ( kashmiri Muslims ) should have looked at the result of Sikh Wave in Punjab & then should have realised that GOI shall go to any extent to avoid such happening . No matter how persons it has to kill , no matter how much destruction it has to do , it will but will not allow disintegration of India . The Assam problem , Punjab problem , Sri lankan , Giorkhaland problems were all the gifts of Indira to India because it was her policy whereever there was a slight chance of non-Congress Govt there non-state actors stepped in to fill the role of opposition propped up by Indira . The present Govts will not repeat those mistakes , nor any unilateral wave of any party is blowing in the country . the maoists are getting help from China , mark my words it will bring nothing else than bloodshed & tears to Tribals . If DS Bittu ji is interested in changing Punjab , let him win SGPC first , let him put his party programme before people . I may assure you only the declaration of PUNJAB as a dry state , getting it free from drugs will bring him unexpected windfall of votes from womenfolk which will easily get him the chair of Punjab CM . Democracy is the only way forward , as I see things currently .

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

NO Kee jaana ji ,
I'm not in favour of Khalistan . It is my belief that India is not going to disintegrate any time soon. Some months ago I saw in TV some Kashmiri Old persons saying about the militancy wave in Kashmir , they said it was a mistake to have indulged in voilence . We ( kashmiri Muslims ) should have looked at the result of Sikh Wave in Punjab & then should have realised that GOI shall go to any extent to avoid such happening . No matter how persons it has to kill , no matter how much destruction it has to do , it will but will not allow disintegration of India . The Assam problem , Punjab problem , Sri lankan , Giorkhaland problems were all the gifts of Indira to India because it was her policy whereever there was a slight chance of non-Congress Govt there non-state actors stepped in to fill the role of opposition propped up by Indira . The present Govts will not repeat those mistakes , nor any unilateral wave of any party is blowing in the country . the maoists are getting help from China , mark my words it will bring nothing else than bloodshed & tears to Tribals . If DS Bittu ji is interested in changing Punjab , let him win SGPC first , let him put his party programme before people . I may assure you only the declaration of PUNJAB as a dry state , getting it free from drugs will bring him unexpected windfall of votes from womenfolk which will easily get him the chair of Punjab CM . Democracy is the only way forward , as I see things currently .

Dalbir Singh ji,

The TV reports you are referring to regarding Kashmir,we have seen many such false reports during so called militancy in Punjab.Nobody believes in any report shown on Indian tv regarding disputed regions of India.

Mann,Bittu can not win any election including SGPC so long as BJP/RSS/Congress control the center and their stooges control Punjab.
As they will use all unfair means to get their puppets elected in Punjab even if it means shedding blood.

The following video states exactly that :
YouTube- simranjit singh mann at ludhiana

Im just randomly finding videos from youtube which have relevence to the discussion and Im not promoting any agenda.

Similarly Punjab will not get free from drugs or deravaad so long as the power rests with BJP/RSS/Congress and their puppets as these are beneficial for both central and Punjab govt.The only way to get rid of them is a Sikh state where all deravaad,drugs,porn,lachar geet will have no place.

Every right thinking Sikh who has no agenda to promote knows there is no difference between Congress,BJP,RSS,fake communists in India as all believe in the same brahmanical thinking under which Sikhs are dubbed as Hindus and dont have their own independent status.If you do not support Khalistan then you are automatically the supporter of brahmanical thinking and the constitition which considers Sikhs are Hindus.Some pagridhari brahmans are comfirtable with that but a large number of self respecting Sikhs like me are not.

We have come across a number of Sikhs in the army also who are not comfirtable with this notion.

The most common mistake some Sikhs make is to think Congress is their enemy whereas BJP/RSS are their friends although we have so many examples to prove that they all are same.

Just a small example ,how many RSS/BJP leaders despite being in Delhi took part in protests against Sajjan kumar outside the court along with the Sikhs ?

Why a shameless Sikh like Onkar Thapar of badal dal who is seen in the following video could not manage to bring a single RSS/VHP/BJP leader to these protests whereas he himself is seen in their rallies ? :

YouTube- DOG IS BARKING FOR A PIECE OF BREAD

Or are these leaders not participating in the protests because they themselves were involved in the 1984 anti Sikh massacre in Delhi,Bokaro,Kanpur,Indore etc ?

All the answers in my post are relevant to various questions asked by dalbirk.There is nothing irrelevant here.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

Well If this happen then there is nothing wrong in formation of a sikh country, but it is wise
for sikhs to keep their mouth shut about khalistan O/W the entire blame will be put on us.

koi kisi ko raaj naa deh hai
jo leh hai nijj bal say leh hai

 

[spnadmin]

I am wondering how you resolve two completely contradictory notions.

Material in green font by kee_jaana_mein_kaun.

Simple answer to ALL the above questions is :

"Without Sikh sovereignity Sikh religion is being finished and will ultimately diminish"

How is the above statement not an equation between the Sikh religion and Sikh political rule? Then you go onto say that your vision of Khalistan is not a theocracy. You are not making sense.

So "Sikh religion CAN NOT survive without sovereignity" as is evident from all the above questions which shows the present position of the Sikhs as we are ruled by some other people who have no interest in spreading Sikhi ,in fact want to finish it.

Based on all other comments you have made, you seem to think that Sikhs are found only in India. And that Sikhs living in other countries are experiencing some kind of loss of religious identity and freedom of expression because they are not ruling themselves.

Agreed that the antics of RSS, SAD and Badal grossly limit freedom of religion for Sikhs everywhere. That is a matter of tragically violating boundaries between state and religion, and is an artifact of the Indian Constitution. The creation of Khalistan does not solve the problem. An orderly political process in which the constitution is changed would be one way of solving the problem.

....

Khalistan is not a theocratic state ...

So far there are as many definitions of what Khalistan will be as there are parties that advocate the formation of Khalistan. Until a critical mass of Sikhs have a clear sense of exactly what is meant by Khalistan, how it will be formed, what the downside or economic and political risks of its formation are likely to be, and how it will be governed, you will never be part of conversation in which your blatant claims are taken seriously.

Sikhs that I know really do not cherish the thought of reinventing and Israeli/Palestine scenario in which every day of their lives is fraught with internal squabbling and an ever clear and present danger of war.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

All those Sikhs who still think Congress is their enemy and BJP is not see these.

This is not propoganda or spreading hatred.It is just an eye opener .

Remember BJP leader Advani in his book has also called Indra Gandhi as Durga.He says in his book the Sikh Gurus were not Gurus but sants only.Futher he says in his book Sikhs are just pagridhari armed hindus meant to defend the hindus(in other words meant to protect brahmans).

Actually only time will tell who will perish.No matter how much the Sikhs keep gloating on false Hindu Sikh unity another 1984 will happen.Moreover not a single person for 1984 anti Sikh massacres has been punished.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

To Admin : If you can decrease the size of the first 2 images then please do so.I dont know how to do it.

 

[kee_jaana_mein_kaun]

I am wondering how you resolve two completely contradictory notions.

Material in green font by kee_jaana_mein_kaun.

Simple answer to ALL the above questions is :

"Without Sikh sovereignity Sikh religion is being finished and will ultimately diminish"

How is the above statement not an equation between the Sikh religion and Sikh political rule? Then you go onto say that your vision of Khalistan is not a theocracy. You are not making sense.

So "Sikh religion CAN NOT survive without sovereignity" as is evident from all the above questions which shows the present position of the Sikhs as we are ruled by some other people who have no interest in spreading Sikhi ,in fact want to finish it.

Based on all other comments you have made, you seem to think that Sikhs are found only in India. And that Sikhs living in other countries are experiencing some kind of loss of religious identity and freedom of expression because they are not ruling themselves.

Agreed that the antics of RSS, SAD and Badal grossly limit freedom of religion for Sikhs everywhere. That is a matter of tragically violating boundaries between state and religion, and is an artifact of the Indian Constitution. The creation of Khalistan does not solve the problem. An orderly political process in which the constitution is changed would be one way of solving the problem.

....

Khalistan is not a theocratic state ...

So far there are as many definitions of what Khalistan will be as there are parties that advocate the formation of Khalistan. Until a critical mass of Sikhs have a clear sense of exactly what is meant by Khalistan, how it will be formed, what the downside or economic and political risks of its formation are likely to be, and how it will be governed, you will never be part of conversation in which your blatant claims are taken seriously.

Sikhs that I know really do not cherish the thought of reinventing and Israeli/Palestine scenario in which every day of their lives is fraught with internal squabbling and an ever clear and present danger of war.

Narayanjot Kaur ji,

I am just amused at the theoretical solutions which you are providing which have no practical significance.

We have tried all this over the last 25 years or 63 years to be more exact.

I dont know which Sikhs you know in USA because most of the Sikhs who live out of India support Khalistan as they have more knowledge about the real situation due to the internet.

Kosovo is an example for us not Palestine.Goggle may spread more light on Kosovo.

Our problem is USA is inclining more towards theocratic hindutva state as they consider that it could be helpful to them in the so called fight against terror .Mosaad is helping the fascist hindutva forces which indirectly runs the Indian govt.

 

[spnadmin]

kee__jaana__mein__kaun

I am glad that I was able to make you laugh :rofl!!::rofl!!::rofl!!: Please tell me how you have become an expert on what Sikhs in the US believe or even know about Hindutva. Or is this another example of how you overgeneralize from an assumption having no basis in fact?

And P/S This is the incredible part for me. You have a weird inclination to disagree vehemently and even question the motives of individuals who have repeatedly and openly agreed with you on 98 percent of your views. But LOL - if any one disagrees on 2 percent -- they should take my advice and run for cover.