Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

[cia]

Re: Sikh Girls - Sikh men practice one thing, and preach another

The article on why girls are confused - when so called [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/search/forum/38-1.html"]sikh[/URL] men practice one thing and preach another. Does the Bani sanction the different treatment of men and women??

This is symptomatic of a kind of hyporcrisy on the part of many [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/search/forum/38-1.html"]Sikhs[/URL]. Many parents themselves do not understand the essence of Sikhism, how are they going to teach their children. Most [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/search/forum/38-1.html"]Sikhs[/URL] have reduced Sikhism to the level of symbolism and outward show. Essentially, this means that you do not become a [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/search/forum/38-1.html"]Sikh[/URL] just by wearing a turban or a Khanda. The true essence of Sikhism is accessed by very few individuals.

We cannot ascend to the heights of the Gurus and the Granth Sahib, and we have therefore reduced their teachings to our lower understanding, thereby distorting Sikhism altogether. Read the Bani - God and spirituality is not related to our physcial body or flesh, but to our soul. To be a [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/search/forum/38-1.html"]Sikh[/URL] is not as easy as just wearing a piece of cloth. Look at the history of the Gurus and [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/search/forum/20-1.html"]saints[/URL]. It is a path of much sacrifice. The Gurus sacrificed their own [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/livekirtan/livekirtan.html"]lives[/URL] and their families. Contemprary so called [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/search/forum/38-1.html"]Sikhs[/URL] cannot even sacrifice their alcohol!!

Rooh, Thank you! This confussion Sikh girls are feeling has been felt and taught to girls for ages. Parent shoud lead by example and not expect for their girls to follow without knowledge. Spirituality can not have a right for one person and not the next. Each person has to decide which fork in the road they are willing to take.

 

[gurunanakslad]

Well Sikh gals r confused .... i don't think we have to blame parents... well i m in Panjab Univ. Chandigarh...Here i c so many Sikh gals wearing short tight tops , showing their body , speaking hindi and they r not ready to listen anything regarding Sikhism... i don;t know wat will b their future at least we should look at our guru and try to walk on path shown by Gurunanak Dev ji

 

[manmitchera]

i live in canada and i have noticed that men seem to b more attached to sikhi then women simply becuz it makes them uncool. women here cant seem to show the pride without fearing it might make them look bad

 

[pso]

Hello to all ! I have come to know

 

[gurunanakslad]

hey manmit wat do u mean by Women ????

 

[kiran_kiran]

i,m not a sikh but i just wanted to add a few things from what ever religion you are if you want your kids to follow BE AN EXAMPLE YOURSELF and teach them what is wrong and right as far as you know (DON,T PUSH)there a saying in urdu (BACHEY BAROON SEY ASAR LETEY HAIN)(children take from their elders )my parents never forced on us (sisters and brothers )to follow the religion but they made sure we were together in every religious cermony and i do the same with my kids even my smallest(she,s a girl) who is 2 when i take out my prayer mat i put one for her besides me she does what i do according to her mood when she,s not interested she leaves and i don,t force her to stay and i noticed now when she sees me getting ready for praying (doing wadu)like washing up she tries to get the praying mat out for me and herself and says this for me, this for mama and same happens with my sons they do what my hubby does so its all up to the parents .give your kids a break and be an example and teach what you are doing and why .i believe alchol is forbidden in sikhi for the same reason in islam (1)it is not good for your health(2)one loses its sence and can not differ from good and bad

 

[gurunanakslad]

well kiran u r rite , u have 2 set examples for ur children but after high school , his environment changes totally , that is the time u need to take care of him...support him, listen him, don't yell at him...in panjabi we say " garam khoon hai isle kuj na kaho , pyar naal samajo".... but this is true... Parents set examples for Children

 

[bikramjit]

wjkk wjkf
I think the concerns are genuine, younger generation should be taught about religion, teachings should be inculcated into real and practical life,only then it is useful,our religion is the most glorious religion, made to shine by the great heroes of the past, so basically what we need is a couple of heroes, to whom people will look up to and feel proud of sikhs and sikhism.

 

[Archived_member7]

Satsriakaalji,
Saadh Sangat...this is a very true and genuine prob...its not just with Keshdhaaris..but also with non keshdhaari hindus....and the best website which gives a detail abt the consequences arising is www.whyichosesikhism.com

We have taken Dharam very lightly....i can easily say..." Mainu Darbar jaan da dil nahi karda" ...had I been in a moslem home and had i said i dont feel to offer namaz i would have been slapped...and perhaps not given food and would have been given names like awara...{censored}....

I dunno how it can help others ..howeever what we can do is..find a freind in the Gurudwara itself...we can gradually form a groups...start seva...

See its not that always you would be concentrating on the Paath and the discourses...so when u feel restless..help others there who are doing seva ...I have done it myself...and feel a strong bonding...and one fine day you will say "YES THIS MY DURBAR ...THIS IS MY GURU'S ABODE.."

All this will take time ...but it can happen...try and u will suceed....

 

[21khalsa13]

sat shri akaal

i think the time is not really for forcing sikhi, or anything else
this is only going to arise out of a need for self preservation mode of thinking

this is not really the point
i feel it is more about 'learning to learn'
i have read on many forums the need for reform
again i agree with some posts there which talk about not reform sikhi but reforming ourselves.

the most precious gift we can give ourselves and our families, societies is the ability to learn
the ability to be a sikhi and not a blind follower - and in this aspect the youth are challenging us to raise our game.

once we learn to learn - open our minds hearts and being to akaal and life
observing life unprejudice, and real - not based on wants or desires of observer
to learn is the most challenging but rewarding. it can't be achieved by force, manipulation, or any other outside influence other than pure insipartion.
once you've become a sikh--> khalsa. lead be example. be the insipration the change you want to see.
as long as we can learn deeply - the best guru in the world is with us to teach us everything!!
these two aspects come hand in hand
our job is to become sikh first - when the student is ready the teacher will appear.
the teacher is here, so we are definatley ready to receive 'grace'
but then why are all the students bunking of lessons ???

 

[harvinders]

Re: live by example

Waheguru Ji ka kalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh,

I totally agree with you. It is very important to practice what you preach. children need role models. We as parents have to show them the right path by living it, but most of all we need to make the time to talk to them, try to explain to them about our culture, answer their questions with details and not short answers. we need to work over-time to be good parents and not for money to pay for luxuries.

I was born in England and very fortunate to be raised in a religious family. Because we attended the Gurduwara on a regular basis ( every evening because my mom was in charge of the seva in the evening and we helped) i had the chance to listen to kirtan and katha. Now here in the U.S.A. we attend on Sundays as much as possible. So it was my job to educated my two boys about culture and how important it is to me that they too stay conncected with Guru Sahib Ji. Now if you want your child to pray in the morning,then you sit with your child and pray together. If you want your child to wear a patka, turban or ramal on their head then you do the same regardless . Now i'm a mom and when my first son went to school i also wore a patka on my head when wearing western clothes. i always covered my head at home so i made sure i did the same outside. From my experience, I think girls have it easier than boys because having a joora and wearing a turban stands out and it is important for us help our children to overcome any differences they endure.

Parents, just love your children and show them your strength by modelling for them. Teach them everything you know, read sikh stories to them at a very young age, so the teachings flow in their veins and pray daily for them to be connected to Guru Sahib Ji.

This is just a quick point on view on my behalf, please forgive me for any errors.

Thank you for taking time to read.

Waheguru Ji ka kalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh,

Harvinder Kaur

 

[Lionchild]

Re: live by example

I totally agree with you. It is very important to practice what you preach. children need role models. We as parents have to show them the right path by living it, but most of all we need to make the time to talk to them, try to explain to them about our culture, answer their questions with details and not short answers. we need to work over-time to be good parents and not for money to pay for luxuries.

Culture can be double edge sword harvinder ji...

Culture can have good properties, but can also have bad qualities like caste, rituals and practices that go against he guru's teachings. Culture and religion are meant to complimant/each other, but never mix. (Language/communication are also meant to do the same thing) So just make sure you pass down your culture's good quality's that work with the guru's teachings. and you will have a good culture and religious life.

 

[JeevanS]

Lover hanged after poison letters

A woman hanged herself following a "campaign of harassment" from her
boyfriend's father, an inquest heard.

Neelam Banger, of West Bromwich, was in a relationship with Shiv Pattni. But
Mr Pattni's father Baharat had arranged for him to marry another woman.

Mr Pattni Snr, of Sutton Coldfield, sent one letter threatening to reveal
sexual text messages she sent his son.

Black Country Coroner Robin Balmain said it was impossible to say if the
letters caused Miss Banger's suicide.

But he called it "disgraceful harassment".

Your parents will be given in writing what you have said to Shiv in your
text messages
Letter from Baharat Pattni

"There are particular pressures in Asian communities because of the
different cultures between the parents and the way the children have been
brought up. It is very regrettable."

The letter Mr Pattni Snr sent read: "If the problems continue your parents
will be given in writing what you have said to Shiv in your text messages."

He also threatened to sue her for £30,000 that had been spent on celebrating
his son's engagement.

A leaflet was also sent to Miss Banger which said Shiv Pattni had been
trapped by "evil ways by a woman call Neelam Banger" and went on to detail
sexually explicit text messages.

The leaflet had been written on the Pattni family computer but Mr Pattni Snr
denied being its author.

Mr Pattni Snr told the hearing he had not meant to threaten Miss Banger,
only to bring her relationship with his son into the open.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4956636.stm

Published: 2006/04/28 18:59:39 GMT

© BBC MMVI

My own personal comments on the story above, I am tired of our own Sikh Community
failing to protect our girls. My thoughts are with the family of the girl, who
have suffered as we in the Sikh Community could not support one of our own daughters.
RIP Neelam Banger.

 

[Navdeep86]

hi i read yr post its nice n intresting but for my case instead of girls were the guys ,,,,, no insults but will want to ask if someone keeps hair all n do bad drink fight scolding kids rather than explaning whats the point .. if somone keep cut hair or shave wax,treading etc but they still gd n helpfull than how u cant judge the book rite ? the person dun become bad because of how he look rite..
as 4 the reasons whats ramamdam etc i believe its not only the sikh community but everywhere go temple gossip etc .. gudewara is more like social place where everyone comes around pray listen chat rather than ppl come n go bulling the priest etc.. hehe... and well i do like the khanda how it was design n i dun know who design it guru ji or the sangaat in those centuries .... well if keeping tattoo etc or khanda logo 4 style no point... Sword to keep its so hard untill where small kirpan was made still dun want to carry but a small gold chain they will soon that will disappear maybe a print on shirt... lol... for drinking wise i wont say bad if its in medicine wise.. like u take drugs : morphine etc.. sick not abuse..

parents are not the fault 2 what i guess...its up 2 individual n belief well let say we remove religion out only pray god regardless what colour or race a person cant even give up his seat to an ederly or a kid lol... who shall that be blame parents ?

cheers
Navdeep

no offence sorry if provoke u no intention of hurting thanks


quote=Neutral Singh]Recently i have come to realise that many sikh girls like myself face too many personal battles.

I believe i have been bought up in quite a tradtional family. Tradtional being the operative word. I am talking generally now, but so many of the third generation have no clue about Sikhism.

I have many muslim and hindu friends, and they have been taught about their religion by their parents. In any predicament or situation, my muslim friends know what is right and wrong. This is not simply what their parent have told them is right and wrong but because they know from a religious standpoint.

Take for example the case of alcohol. Muslims know that they should not drink, it is wrong in their religion. Wheras myself and many of my Sikh friends and family are simply told girls don't drink. But our brothers and fathers go out drinking and come back drunk. What does this show us.

In Sikh families tradtion meanS that girls have so many more pressures than boys. Take again for example drinking alcohol, boys will go out with their friends and have a good time.If girls do the same thing they are more likely to be ridden with guilt. The words of their parents will echoin their heads. But shouldn't it be the words of Sikhism, that drinking is wrong. Many of hindu friends are know that they shouldn't drink, this is because their parents have taught them it is wrong and have led by example. Some of my hindu frinds do drink, but in each case their parents are aware, and they are encouraged to move away from the habit. Muslim girls are aware that their religion teaches not to drink and they don't.

Think about sikh weddings, it is a religious ceremony. But straight after everybody heads off to the party where there is alcohol galore. So what does that teach us? I simply do not get it. Isn't alcohol against sikhism..why have it on a wedding... a religious union? I understand why Christains have alchocol at weddings.. because it isn't againt Christianity. Mulisms don't need alcohol to celebrate.... so many Sikh men just drink, and show themselves up.

How many Sikh children know what the five K's mean?? I bet less than half the UK population of Sikh Children are aware. How many children know what Vaishaki means? To many it means a fun trip to the mela, and a fun walk with free food. Yes but ask muslim childen about ramadan or why they are fasting and they will tell you.

Many of the Sikhs of my generation are louts. They like the glory of their religion. You will see so many young people supporting khanda but not because they are proud of their relgion but because they look cool!!!

The gurdwara is another thing that grates me. How many young people actually listen. There are mobiles going off, children running around, old ladies bantering and gossiping. Pleas for money. Its like a playground. You don't get that in a mosque or church. People know what they are there for.

I mean why do we have to place money and then bow down when we go to the gurdwara? I don't undertstand. It is a silly concept with no meaning (money not bowing). When we go to the gurdwara to pray, that is what should matter. There is no place for a money box in the gurdwara... i resent bowing infront of it. What is the significace??People should make a contribution elsewhere.

Also in Sikhism thier should be no idols. But why are there so many picturs, and statues? How do we know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like or any of the other gurus. Why do we have picturs of them in the gurdwara? Isn't it against the teachings????

On many occassions Sikh parents let thier sons cut their hair.... but their daughters are expected to keep it long. At a young age, i thought that the only rason girls didn't cut thier hair was becasue it would make them look like ummm 'bad girls!' We wern't actually told that Sikhs aren't supposed to tamper with thier bodies. Even if we were told this i guess we still would have been confused because we would question why does my father or brother have short hair?!!!

Sikhs in this country are confused. I forsee many of my generation moving away from a this religion because we just don't get it!![/quote]

 

[Navdeep86]

btw i wont say parents are to blame some question parents arent able to answer.. espically children ask question i mean the kids are not bad they are gd ppl maybe yah dun 24/7 pray stuff like that they dun show the world externaly "LOOK I AM SIKH " etc

some question are even like this eg: guru ji headress is so different than with technology lifestyle changes etc.. headress changes from turban to parkaar to a bandana to cap !! big/small kirpan to small jewerllery <its ok > not that bad at least have [maybe martial artistic know how to fight n defend ]that soon maybe that also gone t-shirt print [hopefully not] parents can say : YEA IF THAT TIME GURU JI RIDING HORSE[old technology] TODAY HE WILL BE DRIVING FERRARI OR SOME VEHICLE ETC...

usually those who keep kirpan also dun want to take care maintain it let it rust throw here n there lol...

just my point of view..

 

[Rajwinder]

I am writing for the first time on this forum ... but really interesting one so want to share my exp too ,

Most of the points about the Sikh girls are quite valid ... I haven’t gone through much literature about Sikhism but recently i have started reading some. My points are :

1. Parents them selves are not aware of why they are following Sikhism. The reason they haven’t thought about it is quite simple ... when u r in India most of the people know who Sikhs are but the moment u go to some place where no body knows who Sikhs are and that too at the age when u r not that old then u ask ur self "why I am like this ".

2. Leave Sikhism the very basic question why u need religion ?? Cant we survive without it ?? If no then the second question comes why Sikhism ?

3. Most of the Sikh boys and girls are following Sikhism ( what ever extent) caus they are TOLD to do so. Else if you ask ur self why then hardly any answers??

4. Politics is another reason .

5. After that divisions in sikhs them selves : Jatt , Saini , khatri , chmar , bla bla .. What the hell is this ?? Specially the Jatt Sikhs they feel proud to be jatts ( Not being Sikhs) .. Mind it I am a Jatt Sikh too and I can say that ...

Now the point is we agree that issues are there and mistake were made but now "What we are doing to improve it"

I tell u what ... people are doing things in this area but not that much.. Few months back i was in Austria and one person called me and said " U r a Sikh" I said yes .. He gave me a book having sayings of Jesus in "Punjabi" I was so impressed,, that, the place where u cant find an Indian I can find those books and that too in Punjabi and I felt ashamed what the hell we are doing to promote Sikhism ??

I went to Germany and i was very happy when i found one gurudwara in that place but that happiness was short lived caus after few days i have seen people fighting for the seat of chairmanship in the gurdwara ... Wow !! that put a great impression on the foreigners watching Sikhs fighting over bullshit things ..

Then they proudly celebrate " Punjabi Mela" in Germany and when i asked one of my friends to accompany me he said " NO buddy people in these kind of melas were from LOW grades I cant take my wife in such events" And I am sorry to say but that was very true .... about 98 % sikhs in that area are either washing utensils , doing cleaning and hardly 10 th pass … and in the guru dwara itself only 3-4 % people use to wear Turban ( Forget about other things ).

Where we are heading ... I can tell u if we go on diluting Sikhism at this rate I am afraid u will hardly find any sikh in coming decade :-(

Lets hope that forums like this will make some differnce J)

 

[noor_e_khalsa]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh!!
First of all please note that our guru ji has given very precise definition of who is a sikh. Guru ji says " Nishan-e-sikhi een panch harf kaaf, hargiz na bashad een panch muaaf.... kada kachh kardo kangha bidaaN, bila kesh hech ast jumlaa nishaan" which means "the symbol of sikhism are the five K's viz. kara, kacchera, kangha, kirpaan and kesh (unshorn hair, which includes all the hair on the body not only the hair on Head) ... and it is not possible that even one of these five Ks be exempted " so a person who is not amritdhaari is not a sikh at all.... please do not refer to any other person a sikh as it tarnishes the image of the Khalsa or Sikh.
As for the issue of alcohol, it is totally banned in sikh religion and one thing more i want to tell you that if some one is a sikh it is not a rule that his son or daughter is also called a sikh. Sikhism has to be earned by each individual who wants to be a sikh.... or in other words you have to work hard to be a "super". If you are having questions regarding your life please go to Guru Granth Sahib ji ... Guru ji will solve your every problem and believe me.... each and every problem whether its worldly or spiritual.... Guru Granth Sahib ji has answers for all.... Social Life, Economic Life, Personal Life, Spiritual Life.... you name it and Guru Ji has a way for tackling that life sphere...
Believe Our Guru Ji
Akaal Sahai
Amandeep Singh

Recently i have come to realise that many sikh girls like myself face too many personal battles.

I believe i have been bought up in quite a tradtional family. Tradtional being the operative word. I am talking generally now, but so many of the third generation have no clue about Sikhism.

I have many muslim and hindu friends, and they have been taught about their religion by their parents. In any predicament or situation, my muslim friends know what is right and wrong. This is not simply what their parent have told them is right and wrong but because they know from a religious standpoint.

Take for example the case of alcohol. Muslims know that they should not drink, it is wrong in their religion. Wheras myself and many of my Sikh friends and family are simply told girls don't drink. But our brothers and fathers go out drinking and come back drunk. What does this show us.

In Sikh families tradtion meanS that girls have so many more pressures than boys. Take again for example drinking alcohol, boys will go out with their friends and have a good time.If girls do the same thing they are more likely to be ridden with guilt. The words of their parents will echoin their heads. But shouldn't it be the words of Sikhism, that drinking is wrong. Many of hindu friends are know that they shouldn't drink, this is because their parents have taught them it is wrong and have led by example. Some of my hindu frinds do drink, but in each case their parents are aware, and they are encouraged to move away from the habit. Muslim girls are aware that their religion teaches not to drink and they don't.

Think about sikh weddings, it is a religious ceremony. But straight after everybody heads off to the party where there is alcohol galore. So what does that teach us? I simply do not get it. Isn't alcohol against sikhism..why have it on a wedding... a religious union? I understand why Christains have alchocol at weddings.. because it isn't againt Christianity. Mulisms don't need alcohol to celebrate.... so many Sikh men just drink, and show themselves up.

How many Sikh children know what the five K's mean?? I bet less than half the UK population of Sikh Children are aware. How many children know what Vaishaki means? To many it means a fun trip to the mela, and a fun walk with free food. Yes but ask muslim childen about ramadan or why they are fasting and they will tell you.

Many of the Sikhs of my generation are louts. They like the glory of their religion. You will see so many young people supporting khanda but not because they are proud of their relgion but because they look cool!!!

The gurdwara is another thing that grates me. How many young people actually listen. There are mobiles going off, children running around, old ladies bantering and gossiping. Pleas for money. Its like a playground. You don't get that in a mosque or church. People know what they are there for.

I mean why do we have to place money and then bow down when we go to the gurdwara? I don't undertstand. It is a silly concept with no meaning (money not bowing). When we go to the gurdwara to pray, that is what should matter. There is no place for a money box in the gurdwara... i resent bowing infront of it. What is the significace??People should make a contribution elsewhere.

Also in Sikhism thier should be no idols. But why are there so many picturs, and statues? How do we know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like or any of the other gurus. Why do we have picturs of them in the gurdwara? Isn't it against the teachings????

On many occassions Sikh parents let thier sons cut their hair.... but their daughters are expected to keep it long. At a young age, i thought that the only rason girls didn't cut thier hair was becasue it would make them look like ummm 'bad girls!' We wern't actually told that Sikhs aren't supposed to tamper with thier bodies. Even if we were told this i guess we still would have been confused because we would question why does my father or brother have short hair?!!!

Sikhs in this country are confused. I forsee many of my generation moving away from a this religion because we just don't get it!!

 

[kds1980]

if only amritdharis are sikhs then who are non-amritdharis ,hindus

 

[simpy]

if only amritdharis are sikhs then who are non-amritdharis ,hindus

All depends on what you believe deep down inside. Guru’s blessing is there for all. Guru Sahib never classify what religion you are from, what you have done, how you are, and any other classification any human mind on its own (being a MANMUKH) can think of. You just have to turn your mental attitude towards Him. Then it depends on Him and only Him, how He wants you to be. If He wants you to be an AmritDhari, you will get the unstopable urge within to change you appearance and otherwise.


Being an AmritDhari, if you are really following Guru's word, it is going to help you, otherwise there is no difference. Believing that only by becoming AmritDhari you can achieve Moksh(a lot of AmritDaris think that this their licence to Salvation), or only then you are a Sikh, is similar to the Hindu belief of wearing a thread around the body makes you a religous person and can save you from all sins. Esspecially in todays world, you can not find Five True Sikhs together at one place to bless you with REAL AMRIT. And 90% of Today's AmritDharis believe that they are the only real human beings others are trash. That is totally against Gurmat.

 

[Lionchild]

...so a person who is not amritdhaari is not a sikh at all.... please do not refer to any other person a sikh as it tarnishes the image of the Khalsa or Sikh.

So someone who is learning sikhi ahnd trying to work up to it isnt a student? sikhi means student - you are only true sikh when you tak amrit. But other than that, you are a sikh if you try your best to learn guru ji's teachings and try to work up to amrit, like i am doing. You don't join khalsa to be part of an "elite" or higher "class" liek some ppl have come accustomed to.

The only people who tarnish sikhi are those who are fake sikhs and fake khalsa... they are the ones who make it bad for all.