Short-hair Ban On Gurudwara Marriages

[CaramelChocolate]

wjkk
wjkf

so according to you what are beef eating hindus or pork eating muslims
as these things are prohibited in their religion.

Some other religion or manmukhs of their faith.

 

[kds1980]

wjkk
wjkf

caramel jee by keeping hair nobody become gurmukh.hairs are important if you keep them with your own wish.i live in delhi region 90%sikhs in this region have hair not because they are sikhs just because of family presurre.all the sikhs boys and girls in delhi are manmukh .if they would have been given chance to cut their hair they will cut.so this ban is wrong in my opinion
bhul chuk maaf

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Yes it is also about mental intentions... I never said a non-hair cutter cannot be a manmukh still.

 

[a lost sikh]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

If our Guru does not discriminate who is shown to the path of enlightenment who are we to judge. As for the caste comment, in Sikhism there is no race,caste or gender differnces, that is the hypocrisy of our people not our teachings.

Just by looking the part (Khalsa) does not make you a true Sikh. There are many people, who to look at take the role of a tradional Sikh (appearance) but have no idea what our Guru's set out to do. These were the ones who were born into it and have been raised to look the part. There are many young and old sardars who are so far from the teachings and the understanding of Sikhism.

On the other hand there are those who live by the Guru's teachings and walking down the street you would never know that in their hearts they are Sikhs. I understand that the appearance is important, although I am not sure how important in todays society, but we do not connect with God by our appearance it is what is inside of our hearts and our minds.

This potential ban would drive more people away from the Gurdwaras and our religion as some of the people who would be supporting the ban are probably the biggest hypocrites. I think we should be doing things to get more young people involved in the Gurdwaras so that we give them the understanding that there is more to the Gurdwaras than the hypocrisy that is seen. We have such an amazing religion but not a lot of people get the chance to see or experience it's strenghth due to our "reps".

a lost sikh

 

[Arvind]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

dear veer,

let us ourselves be the reps then... what stops us?

Regards.

 

[S|kH]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Once again, let me break this post down.

If our Guru does not discriminate who is shown to the path of enlightenment who are we to judge. As for the caste comment, in Sikhism there is no race,caste or gender differnces, that is the hypocrisy of our people not our teachings.

How is this discrimination, because we ask certain features to ensure that you will keep your vow with the Guru during marriage? Did Guru Gobind Singh NOT ask or state certain features which were mandatory for the Khalsa? Why do you not call this discrimation then, during the amrit sanchaar ceremony when ALL Sikhs must keep their kesh? Why did our Guru demand such a thing?
Why can a mona not do this! We should abolish Kesh as a K, because its making the youth run away! Last I checked, even when Guru Gobind was at WAR he did not attempt to re-establish key ideals just to enlist a larger number of people in his army. He kept his ideals and mandates, and only the ones who fit the description were allowed to fight alongside.

Did our Guru decline anyone for being a Khalsa? Obviously the monay that were present at the first ceremony did not come up. No one was declined or ever discriminated against by our Guru, but they were told to go put their thought or "ideal heart" into action, and show the Guru that they were on their way to truth. They were not told that they are evil and do not belong, but they were guided on the truthful path and were simply asked to come back when they were ready for Amrit, and they had proven capable so. To show the Guru that they had indeed followed the path of truth the Guru had set them on.

The Anand Karaj ceremony is also a vow to the Guru that you will maintain as his Sikhs. It is just not a ceremony anyone should take part in, and it is not a discriminatory ceremony, but unless you have shown that you are on the path, the same path Guru Gobind had created special characteristics for, than you should not make a vow that you havent kept up till that date. The same works for Sardars who are empty at heart, but that makes no excuse for monay who are "ideal at heart" to keep cutting their hair. Two completely different situations.

Just by looking the part (Khalsa) does not make you a true Sikh. There are many people, who to look at take the role of a tradional Sikh (appearance) but have no idea what our Guru's set out to do. These were the ones who were born into it and have been raised to look the part. There are many young and old sardars who are so far from the teachings and the understanding of Sikhism.

Here we go again, you are simply picking the worst of one kind (sardar) and the best of the other kind (monay) and comparing the two as if they were both infront of the Guru, and then making your own decision on what the conclusion would be. Let us hold only one variable, the kesh, and everything else is the same between the Sardar and the Mona. Guru Gobind historically selected the Sardar as "his Sikh", part of the "Khalsa" because he had SHOWN the Guru his action in purity, not just his ideals or thought, or philosophy. The Mona has an equal heart, and philosophy, but fails to follow the Gurus words, and can not make his ideal thoughts into action. Which would Guru Gobind select? I'll let the reader think of the answer...matter fact, Which DID Guru Gobind select?

On the other hand there are those who live by the Guru's teachings and walking down the street you would never know that in their hearts they are Sikhs. I understand that the appearance is important, although I am not sure how important in todays society, but we do not connect with God by our appearance it is what is inside of our hearts and our minds.

We do not connect with God through our appearance? You know how many religious leaders would say the opposite, and easily state the importance of an identity, specifically of hair. Our appearance (The Khalsa) is our mandate with God, is our signing of the contract to live life the way it was designed. Our appearance is our identity that the Gurus created with a foundational understanding of philosophy. If the love is in your heart, than show the love to the world.

This potential ban would drive more people away from the Gurdwaras and our religion as some of the people who would be supporting the ban are probably the biggest hypocrites. I think we should be doing things to get more young people involved in the Gurdwaras so that we give them the understanding that there is more to the Gurdwaras than the hypocrisy that is seen. We have such an amazing religion but not a lot of people get the chance to see or experience it's strenghth due to our "reps".

a lost sikh

I think we should be doing things to keep the adults in line, so as not to filter our educational system into something completely the opposite of what history clearly shows us. When adults make a vow infront of our Guru, I would want our kids to see that the adults have kept that vow, or atleast attempted to maintain it. Otherwise, than why is that vow ever created?

In all seriousness, you may wish to talk of how a "bad" sardar still can make the vow infront of the Guru, well that is always there...we must the draw a line similar to the one our Guru chose, a physical appearance that ALL can see, not just an "inside heart". Secondly, the worst scenario is clearly the mona who grows his dhari only for the ceremony and then shaves/cuts it off afterwards breaking the vow mere minutes after the ceremony is completed. Is that not complete disrespect at the Guru's face? Face it, the only measure of thumb is the physical appearance, we can not pry into someones heart to see their "ideals", and we can not let everyone make a vow to our Guru knowing our Guru had created certain guidelines to live by. Because, if its in your mind, its only a philosophy, only when it comes into action are you a student of the Guru.

We need to grow up and not feel the need to show that any choice our kids make are prefectly correct...admit it, our kids do wrong, lets not make them think their choices are completely correct. We need to tell them, and show them, that certain choices are NOT on the lines of Sikhi. We should not change Sikhi just because the youth follow a trend that changes rapidly. Nor am I telling you to completely excommunicate your child.

Frankly, I'm quite tired of hearing this nonsense of our kids not wanting to come to Gurdwara so let us change our foundation and maybe they will feel more accepted. Let us change our K's so maybe the monays feel more accepted and learn Sikhi. There is OTHER ways to make the kids feel accepted and put them on the path. You can NOT change a core element of the Khalsa. If you tell your kids that you do not need kesh now, and that the Guru no longer requires it, so he feels comfortable going to gurdwara....do you think he will magically change his mind later? Why don't we just tell them the truth...that the Guru expected certain physical features, some may not hold them, but its all on a path, when you feel ready, the Guru will accept you. Go to Gurdwara to learn this path, and see what fits you best. If you choose to not follow the path on the edge of the sword, than all the best to you, but please respect those that do, and try to live your life the way the Guru did. You must realize that you have made the choice to NOT follow that path, so one can not expect the Guru to change his path to simply make the child's new path correct.

Do not change the path so that you are the ideal human or your kid is living a perfect life.

 

[a lost sikh]

I am not saying we should be changing anything in what makes us Sikh as was set out by the Guru. Our youth are not running away from having the physical appearance of a Sikh, they are running away because that seems to be the most important think lately and not what is inside. We are showing our children that it is important to look a certain way to be accepted, and that our inner being comes second.

I think having the ban will be saying that unless you look the part you do not belong in the Gurdwara and that is not right. The Gurdwara is a place for everyone regardless of race religion or gender to come and pray. I myself am not a Puran Sikh but when I took my vows they were (and are) the most important and sacred thing I have ever done. I think given the option I would never have wanted to be marred in any other way. A part of me was joined with God and my husband in a way that could not happen in any other way.

Until you have experienced a oness with God in the Gurdwara you have no idea the peace that comes over a person. Like I said I am not Sikh in your terms but I have experienced something with God that proves to me that I can be just as close and accepted by our Guru as someone who is a Gursikh and there is nothing that anyone can say that can prove otherwise.

We need to grow up and not feel the need to show that any choice our kids make are prefectly correct...admit it, our kids do wrong, lets not make them think their choices are completely correct. We need to tell them, and show them, that certain choices are NOT on the lines of Sikhi. We should not change Sikhi just because the youth follow a trend that changes rapidly. Nor am I telling you to completely excommunicate your child.

I completely agree with your statement here, parents need to teach their children right from wrong. I also believe that once we have taught them that they need to choose to be a Sikh. Once they make that choice they will follow that path of the Guru, if you tell them that they must they, in most cases, will not follow from the inside out but from the outside and potentially from within.

In short I am not saying change the ideals and the path that we are to follow. All I am saying is the ban will keep people from coming to the Gurdwara and if they are not coming they are not given the chance to be a part of the sangaat where they will have the chance to experience that oness with our Guru. I believe that our vow to our Guru is from within our hearts and not by the way we look. Not to say that it is not important to follow the "features" as set out but God is in our hearts.

A shepherd would not let a lost sheep wonder about aimlessly, he would try to bring it to where the rest of his sheep are so that it will not stray again.

 

[drkhalsa]

In short I am not saying change the ideals and the path that we are to follow. All I am saying is the ban will keep people from coming to the Gurdwara and if they are not coming they are not given the chance to be a part of the sangaat where they

will have the chance to experience that oness with our Guru. I believe that our vow to our Guru is from within our hearts and not by the way we look. Not to say that it is not important to follow the "features" as set out but God is in our hearts.

A shepherd would not let a lost sheep wonder about aimlessly, he would try to bring it to where the rest of his sheep are so that it will not stray again.

dear Lost sikh

Forgive if i am wrong but actually this disscusion is about banning marriages of patit sikhs ( sikhs not following the rehat) and not about the ban on entering gurdwara

i just thought may be disscusion is going out of track



Jatinder Singh

 

[mehargags]

Ok i agree That some ppl say that our guru Tell us that don't discriminate between People on relegion so i want to ask them People so why then Guru Gobind singh Ji Make Khalsa ??? whats the reason of making If his father gave Life for hindu, He can also Live Lke that only why he make Khalsa ( i hope he don't have Power to see the forcast that one day sikh stands up cut there hair & say all relegion are same & not thinking what Guru Gobind singh Ji said & done.

Plz tell Me if a sikh cut down her hair ?
What Religion It belongs to ??????

 

[S|kH]

I am not saying we should be changing anything in what makes us Sikh as was set out by the Guru. Our youth are not running away from having the physical appearance of a Sikh, they are running away because that seems to be the most important think lately and not what is inside. We are showing our children that it is important to look a certain way to be accepted, and that our inner being comes second.

Actually, they are running away from the physical appearance because of SOCIAL pressure, not because of what they feel inside. Hence, with the recent crisis of post 9/11 and the semi-recent events of 1984, the Sikh identity has come to the forefront of Sikh issues that we must address. That is WHY we make it seem like its the most important thing, because in this state of crisis, it is.

I think having the ban will be saying that unless you look the part you do not belong in the Gurdwara and that is not right. The Gurdwara is a place for everyone regardless of race religion or gender to come and pray. I myself am not a Puran Sikh but when I took my vows they were (and are) the most important and sacred thing I have ever done. I think given the option I would never have wanted to be marred in any other way. A part of me was joined with God and my husband in a way that could not happen in any other way.

So then, why not argue with the Panj Pyare that they are making you feel unwanted when they only give the Amrit Sanchaar ceremony to people who keep the outwardly 5 K's, and that they THINK are also pure on the inside? The 5 K's were meant as a standardized test, so that one could view pure action which often leads to pure thought.

Until you have experienced a oness with God in the Gurdwara you have no idea the peace that comes over a person. Like I said I am not Sikh in your terms but I have experienced something with God that proves to me that I can be just as close and accepted by our Guru as someone who is a Gursikh and there is nothing that anyone can say that can prove otherwise.

There's nothing that someone can say that will prove you otherwise?
Please, do try to take amrit at the next amrit sanchaar ceremony, and let us all know how it goes. Let us know if the Panj Pyare, the people who were GIFTED by Guru Gobind as equals think you have pure action and thought and are ready to join. What you have, is in your inside, pure thought...that you think of God in a pure manner...but all that is, is just a philosophy. You must turn this love of God into action. I am sure you have a connection just as good as a Gursikh with our Guru, but it is our Gursikh that actually puts that love into action for all of humanity to see. We all have a philosophical connection with Guru/God, and most of the time its the same philosophical connection, but hardly any of us put those thoughts into action to help humanity in the way instructed and demonstrated by our Gurus.

I completely agree with your statement here, parents need to teach their children right from wrong. I also believe that once we have taught them that they need to choose to be a Sikh. Once they make that choice they will follow that path of the Guru, if you tell them that they must they, in most cases, will not follow from the inside out but from the outside and potentially from within.

And that is what I am saying, it should be a choice...but up until they can make a rational choice, it must be the way of the Khalsa to raise them along Khalsa principles. This is part of the vow you make when you get married. Yet, we still have parents who cut their childs hair when there like 5?, or let their child cut his hair when he's 10. No, you raise him as a Khalsa, and let him choose at 18.

In short I am not saying change the ideals and the path that we are to follow. All I am saying is the ban will keep people from coming to the Gurdwara and if they are not coming they are not given the chance to be a part of the sangaat where they will have the chance to experience that oness with our Guru. I believe that our vow to our Guru is from within our hearts and not by the way we look. Not to say that it is not important to follow the "features" as set out but God is in our hearts.

A shepherd would not let a lost sheep wonder about aimlessly, he would try to bring it to where the rest of his sheep are so that it will not stray again.

This just doesn't make sense, because marriages happen like three times a year at most gurdwaras. Like Drkhalsa said, we ARE not talking about ENTERANCE to the Gurdwara, or praying, or being a part of "sangat". We are talking about VOWS made with the GURU in public, not in private, not in your "inside", but both in action and THOUGHT.

--
In conclusion, no person should be allowed to make vows in public to our Guru infront of others, demonstrating commitment, or hold high seats of Sikh office unless they are both externally, and internally Sikh. Bibi Kaur was recently expelled because she was corrupt.

 

[tp_bits]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

This is my first post and trying to add a bit to the discussion.

My point is : we should not ban monna marriages.

It is not possible to distinguish between a sikh and a mona.
Outward appearance is just one way, what about others ? say how would you know that the person drinks alcohol, has bad habits?
It is really not possible, to ban just on the basis of outward appearance, does not make sense. If you want to ban, then ban all who dont live their lives on the principles laid out by our Gurus.
A GURUDWARA is the place of Guru which should have acces to everyone, one who follows and one who does not. We have no right to limit this access. Guru does not differentiate between bad and good people. For him, everyone is same.

Now,coming to 5k's, It is essential for a sikh to wear 5K's. People argue that a person can be a good human being without wearing 5k. I dont agree. If a person follows gurus teachings, his inner sikhi will be automatically reflected outwards. The person wont have to put effort to grow hair and the person will never argue over this point. Those who argue dont have internal sikhi. DO YOU EVER FOUND A TRUE SAINT IN SIKHSIM WHO DIDNT HAVE OUTWARD SIKHI? Please tell me......

MY CONCLUSION :
A TRUE SIKH WHO HAS INTERNAL SIKHI, HIS SIKHI WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY REFLECTED OUTWARDS ALSO. A TRUE SIKH WILL NEVER ARGUE OVER THIS POINT. 5K's ARE THE GIFTs OF OUR GURU TO US, IT IS SO EASY TO KEEP 5K, IF WE CANT DO SUCH AN EASY JOB, DO YOU THINK THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO FOLLOW GURU's TEACHINGS? PLEASE ASK THIS QUESTION TO YOURSELF. IS NOT HYPOCRITICAL OF US IF WE SAY THAT WE LOVE OUR GURU BUT WE CANT KEEP 5K?

 

[CaramelChocolate]

I know I haven't participated on this thread much, but anyway.. First of all, my understanding is that anyone can be a Sikh, be he Muslim, Hindu, Jewish... a Sikh is someone who Sikhs God... However there is the other side of it where you get the amritdharis who are essentially the true Sikhs which is what we should strive to be, right? Doesn't maradya say that a couple who marries in anand karaj must be both SIKH... meaning they SEEK God... how many couples who get married in Gurudwara really do desire God and want to be with him? Doesn't maradya say they should also pledge to take amrit soon? Does any Gurudwara ever ask what their plans are religiously or do they just say "oh your punjabi with a kara on, you can marry here".... Infact I, a white person who is searching for GOD probably fits the bill more of getting married in a Gurudwara, although I would not say I am a Sikh due to the modern day attachments to the word [being punjabi, doing paath], Gurudwara would probably give me a funny look... but the point I am making is that the problem is probably with the Gurudwaras and maradya... they must either make marriages for amritdharis only or change the definition of a Sikh in maradya [say they must have 5 k's, not take intoxicants etc.]... but I don't see anything like this happening in today's secular society.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I know I haven't participated on this thread much, but anyway.. First of all, my understanding is that anyone can be a Sikh, be he Muslim, Hindu, Jewish... a Sikh is someone who Sikhs God... However there is the other side of it where you get the amritdharis who are essentially the true Sikhs which is what we should strive to be, right? Doesn't maradya say that a couple who marries in anand karaj must be both SIKH... meaning they SEEK God... how many couples who get married in Gurudwara really do desire God and want to be with him? Doesn't maradya say they should also pledge to take amrit soon? Does any Gurudwara ever ask what their plans are religiously or do they just say "oh your punjabi with a kara on, you can marry here".... Infact I, a white person who is searching for GOD probably fits the bill more of getting married in a Gurudwara, although I would not say I am a Sikh due to the modern day attachments to the word [being punjabi, doing paath], Gurudwara would probably give me a funny look... but the point I am making is that the problem is probably with the Gurudwaras and maradya... they must either make marriages for amritdharis only or change the definition of a Sikh in maradya [say they must have 5 k's, not take intoxicants etc.]... but I don't see anything like this happening in today's secular society.

You are spot on dear caramelchocolate.. Remember the entry of Jesus into the TEMPLE....Jesus had to kick out the priests because they had commercialised the House of God..

Well its the EXACT SAME thing in SIKH GURDWARAS today....MONEY TALKS..and real loud too. IF you have MONEY to donate to the Goluk...well you can do anything..ask for anything..get away with anything...

I dont want to wash dirty linen in public..but i think you get the point. Guru Nanak Ji wouldnt be able to "recognise" a Sikh gurdawra today !!

Sorry to be so blunt..but brutal honesty is my forte.

Jarnail Singh

 

[hpluthera]

There's a new ban on "short-haired" people getting married in the gurdwara.

Discuss. (I'll post my views soon).

Who so ever think that way is enemy of Sikhs Sikhism is the religion for inclusion not exclusion. It took Guru Sahibs more than 200 years to make Sikhs Khalsa. Today's some self appointed preachers and leaders with some ulterior outside political or other presures talk of such extremity to exculde ordinary simple sikh who can not practice or become the meber of the Order of Khalsa.

Whereas in all good sense we should encourage all people to come to Gurudwara and participate and listen to Gurbani Kirtan and Vichar with Sahaj they will get more close to the Guru. Unfortunately Like Brahmins of Guru nanak Time Many have get enslaved to only Five Kakars and not the real message. Guru nanak rejected Janau for the very reason because it was nothing more than a symbol and the real meaning and its value were forgotten. Guru nanak reminded the True message of Vedas and asked and challenged the Brahmins by reminding the true message in Vedas =of Naam Simran not idol worship. "Kine Raam Naam Ik Akhar"
Similarly He reminded the Muslims the meaning of true Nimaz. Guru nanak 's Message can only be spread in the same way Sri Guru nanak Dev Himself did preach in the simple way. If Gurus had patience to create Khalsa in 200 years _ where from these quick fix "Khalsas" emerging which I challenge would not in real practice pass the Sikhi Test leave alone Khalsa Test- "Pahle maran Kabool kar Chad Jeevan Ki aas Sabna Ki ban Renuka phir Aao Hamare Paas".

Let us first understand the meaning and purpose of Guru Dwara- "Guru dware Jaye Sojhi Payisee" It is a place where from you get "Gyan Sojhi". If you block people from coming to the place or frustrate any one by condemning him/her as second class Sikh because of his/her dress or looks then it is some thing else not gurudwara.

Moreover, how do you expect that any person get "Sojhi". Guru Duwara Is open to all seekers Ist step to Sikhi is
"Surrender" "Mein Sab Khuj Tenu Sopia Ja Tera banda"
Giving your hand in the Hand of Guru " Banh Pakar Gur Kadhia"
Gyan"Aape Sojhi Payesi"
Let the "Sahaj" work after surrender a mere touch of Gurbani will do its miracle. Do not become Karta Sikhi is not Islam or Christianity where persecution takes you to Heaven. Sikhi is the journey to reach your Lord with His Grace With His Blessings With His Shabad With His Naam and Journey Of Sikhi Begins when you Get to know your Guru - Gu Darkness Ru- Roshini that is why Gurbani says" Gur Bin Ghor Andhar" so the one who takes you out of darkness into the Light - you become Sikh when you get to know your Guru Sri Guru Nanak dev Ji. Guru welcomes and keep His door open for all. Guru Nanak showed and practiced that by taking out of darkness the Sajan ThUg, Koda Raksh and many of his time so Called "Papis". Gurbani is not for those who are already engrossed in His Name it is for Papis who need direction to be on the right Path.

"Sikho Sikhi Prachar te kise kism di Rok changi nahi". "Awar updeshe aap na kare awey javey janme mare"
"Simran which leen Sikh da ik sparsh hi Kafi hey hazaaran shabdan naalon"
Behrupiye batere han sansar which
Guru fateh HP Singh Luthera

 

[devinesanative]

A true learner or Sikh is not dependent of Gurudwara , As for him this whole world is Gurudwara .

So , What is more important the Packaging Design or the Content ............

How you will ban those who are clean shaven but a learner and sikh

learning in this beautiful Gurudwara Planet Earth .

Banning the clean shaven , it will mean that the clean shaven or hair cut is the disbeliever . ....

it means to ban out the hair cut people from this earth , there is only one way , that is kill him ..........

So, doesn't it will mean that there is no difference between sikhs and muslims who are head on heals to kill the disbelievers .

Through out this forum the posting of many scholars contradict with their own thoughts and philosophies .........

Some where they say it is in the hands of God , some where they say there is no believer and disbeliver ............


What's This .............

This hair cut ban is nothing but to draw the public attention , and those

who do they are trying to be the next GURU , 11th guru ...........

 

[devinesanative]

Gurudwars is not the only place to get married .................

And nethier the Temple .................

And nethier the mosque .................

And neither any place made by humans .....................

If packaging is more important , then the couples should be left at home , bring their dresses which symbolizes sikhism according to you , get their dressess married ...............

That's alll.....................

I think if packaing is more important , I should serve the guest with good

packages only instead of food ..........

If the mentality of Islam or Hinduism creeps in the sikhism , then it can be

clearly viewed and observed that we are going to witness the formation

New Religion , Just like Guru Nanak Founded .


And that is the reason of formation of all new Religions one after the

other ,


it was merely the process to simplify the living of the people .

 

[devinesanative]

The beautiful body which the Akal has gifted us is the Gurudwara of the Akal .............

whom to ban and where to ban .....................

Sikhism is not maintaining law and order .............

Beware the Contractors and Custodians of the Sikhism .............

All this ban , and all this not allowing women to do such and such rituals is

the narrow mindset of sikh clergies , and it does reflect the insecurity .

Power , Gain Power and Gain Power ..... that is what more important to the Sikh Clergies ............

"Baithe Baithe kUch sujhaya nahin , te B..........d ch Chamune Ladr de aa"

Uchlan Kuddan lagde aa , Hmmmmmmmmmm Chalo ji Phalani Cheez ban

kariye .............

 

[manvinder]

When a child does some mischief best way and i think all will agree is to tell him with love and affection that this is wrong and realise him what is right. We don't through him out of house. As a adult sikh one should be aware that he or she has to get amrit but in present times as we see most of young one don't keep kesh. aren't they childern of god so should we through them out of the house of God? As some of the members are angry with sikhs who cut hairs and they show there anger. won't those who are thrown out of gurudawara have anger and resentment and will we be justified in doing that to people who are misguided instead of educating and motivating them?( different means personal and community can be used) we shoud not judge people from our point of view ever one has his own maturity and we should make efforts to enlighten people for adapting to sikhi rehat. I know a person who was studying in Nagpur and he was harrased by police because he had kept a flowing beard but he never got hisbeard cut but when he returned back to punjab and was trying to get marrried he was not getting any proposals and he had to cut his beard and then got married? so what you say? do we need extreme penalities to spread sikhi rehat or extreme educaton and awareness for sikhs? Kam krodh Lob Moh Ahankar are our enemies we should judge our efforts in spreading skihi and it's rehat against Them. does our views and actions depict anger against other or arrogance of our being good then them? Let your concience judge it.

Sat Shri Akal

 

[devinesanative]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Dear DAS Ji

I have read all the posts on this forum , I thought you to be a scholar of great perception and thoughts having the ability to put forth the comments in a beautiful way ........

But what's this , You Say about PATITS.

How do you Define Patits ?

Do you believe there is believer and Disbeliver ?

Can you seperate the Believer and Disbeliever ?

What is PATITS ?

Who is Patitis ?

How is Patits ?

You know why people don't listen to scholars , because the phillosophies of scholars contracdict each and every time , and that confuses the people ........

Let me tell you marriage is just certificate for legitimate relationship to have civilized society.

What's Important in marriage is the Meeting of two Souls , marriage of two souls ?

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das can say it is good to Ban marrige of Patits in Gurudwara but let Sahijdharis like from Hindu or Muslims or other non Sikh family can be allowed to use Gurudwaras for Marrige as per Anand Karaj Ceromony.

Like Karisham Kapur inspite of being from Hindu family got marrige by Sikh Anand Karaj.That is more a way to preach Panth to outsiders.

Das is also afarid that now Patits will go to pandits for marriage and thier wifes will wear Mangal Sutra and childern will have mundan but if they were allowed in Gurudwara to marry at least thier wife could still have had 5Ks and sons/doughters too.

 

[hpluthera]

Every Khalsa is a Sikh but every Sikh need not be Khalsa. The order of Khalsa was established by Guru Gobind Singh ji for some necessity of the time and as the time arise the same can be again promoted. Sikhism as a Religion is not enslaved by the image of Khalsa but by Naam Simran as enshrined in the Guru Granth Sahib. I do not understand why some elements insist more on Kakars than on Naam. It is just line Janou Guru Nanak had to resist. If Kakars were so important then why Guru Gobind singhji added the same in the Guru Granth Sahib like Quoran.

Spirtuality in Sikhism is the best amongst all religions of the world but these all add on from outside the Granth Sahib is confusing not only for Sikhs of today but for others.

Sikh History and Army legacy has great significance and no parrelel for sacrifice and truth ful living. Unfortunately the image is abused today by many.

In today's world we have soft Khalsas and carry symbolic hair, Kirpan or one or two other symbols.

Why our religious leaders want to create Muslim like environment amongst Sikhs. There is no shura.

Bani Guru naam Simran, Sikhi as defined in the SGGS is sufficient to preach and follow the Sikh ism as religion forget add on as the bsic fundamental to Sikhi they are options and let those be optional as Guru Gobind singh ji Did. Did He say that those who have not taken Amrit are not Sikhs any more? If he did then today's leaders may be right otherwise they are some outside infiltrators amongst Sikhs who want to restrict growth of Sikhi and are its first enemies.

Guru appealed sikhs to take Amrit he did not force. Guru Granth Sahib has defined the Sikh and Sikhi in its many verses and so has Bhai Gurdas. Sikhs may keep Khalsa as their ultimate roop but not the fundamental necessity.
Weed out those who are restricting or trying to keep Sikhs away from Gurbani, Gurus and Gurdwaras -they should be thrown out of the Institutions first to clean up and promote the Sikhi.
HP Luthera

When a child does some mischief best way and i think all will agree is to tell him with love and affection that this is wrong and realise him what is right. We don't through him out of house. As a adult sikh one should be aware that he or she has to get amrit but in present times as we see most of young one don't keep kesh. aren't they childern of god so should we through them out of the house of God? As some of the members are angry with sikhs who cut hairs and they show there anger. won't those who are thrown out of gurudawara have anger and resentment and will we be justified in doing that to people who are misguided instead of educating and motivating them?( different means personal and community can be used) we shoud not judge people from our point of view ever one has his own maturity and we should make efforts to enlighten people for adapting to sikhi rehat. I know a person who was studying in Nagpur and he was harrased by police because he had kept a flowing beard but he never got hisbeard cut but when he returned back to punjab and was trying to get marrried he was not getting any proposals and he had to cut his beard and then got married? so what you say? do we need extreme penalities to spread sikhi rehat or extreme educaton and awareness for sikhs? Kam krodh Lob Moh Ahankar are our enemies we should judge our efforts in spreading skihi and it's rehat against Them. does our views and actions depict anger against other or arrogance of our being good then them? Let your concience judge it.

Sat Shri Akal