Sehajdari Sikhs As SGPC Voters

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

sehajdharees are like those who prefer to "repeat" the same class year in a nd year out....and NEVER GRADUATE !!! i am sure many of us would ahve seen such "characters" made fun of in movies about college students....the Main "fool" would be the one who is perpetually in First Year...while those who joined him years ago are now his Professors..That is a SEHAJDHAREE for you.

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

If we see from the eye of socail scintist,not with any bias of being Sikh.Then as other non Sikhs have praised Sikhs for such things,we may say that this faith is evovlved with time.

so may be advance then other faiths.

So unlike in other faiths,here we are given a sort of probation to one who want to convert and if they pass as our Gyani Sahib Ji have said,they are in else out.

Das saw another thing.Hindus enroute to Panth could be Sahijdhair(Dhar is to have and Dharam is something havable).While if we read Rahit Nammah Bhai Daya Singh Ji Mazhabi is not the caste but sort of Muslims in state similar to Sahijdhari.And say Muslim versiomn of Sahijdhari.Maybe due to accomadtiing the differnt path for potential converts to ture faith based upon ther background faith/native faith.

 

[Veeru]

Giyani Ji,

Two questions:

1. What effect does eating the fruit have on people and does it have the same effect on all?

2. You are comparing a Sehajdhari to someone who never graduates. May I ask what exactly graduating means to you and in Sikhi and if you have graduated?

 

[ISDhillon]

Another interesting fact is that you cannot claim to believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when you only believe in the first nine gurus because only the 10th guru gave gurgaddi to the SGGS, then how can you believe in partial authority of the 10th guru? - its simple to suit your own lifestyle and protect your ego, however it is true to say that in sikhism amrit is the ideal but it does not mean spirituality is not attainable through non-sikh means, this must be accepted. People should take amrit cos they want that roop and for no other reason. Sehajdharis are also people who would not give their head for their guru- that is not necessarily a bad thing cos amrit was a choice. Its time for people to be honest.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<Sehajdharis are also people who would not give their head for their guru- that is not necessarily a bad thing cos amrit was a choice. Its time for people to be honest.>

thanks Dhillon ji

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Giyani Ji,

Two questions:

1. What effect does eating the fruit have on people and does it have the same effect on all?

2. You are comparing a Sehajdhari to someone who never graduates. May I ask what exactly graduating means to you and in Sikhi and if you have graduated?

dear PCJS ji,
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.
1. eating of the fruit has a different effect on different people..no two are the same.
2. Khandeh batte dee Pahul (Amrit of khandabattah) is the IDEAL..all Sikhs aim for. Some attain it..other dont..some want it..others claim it is superflous. It is NOT the FINAL beall-endall... its actually the BEGINNING of a long and ardous journey...Walon Nikee Khandeaohn Tikhee..thinner than a strand of hair and sharper than a sword blade is the PATH of the Khalsa after he takes Pahul..one graduates when one merges with Waheguru..i am still a LONG long way...off many Galaxies away to be precise !!!
Hope this clarifies..
Warm regards
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Another interesting fact is that you cannot claim to believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when you only believe in the first nine gurus because only the 10th guru gave gurgaddi to the SGGS, then how can you believe in partial authority of the 10th guru? - its simple to suit your own lifestyle and protect your ego, however it is true to say that in sikhism amrit is the ideal but it does not mean spirituality is not attainable through non-sikh means, this must be accepted. People should take amrit cos they want that roop and for no other reason. Sehajdharis are also people who would not give their head for their guru- that is not necessarily a bad thing cos amrit was a choice. Its time for people to be honest.

absolutley....up to Guru teg bahadur Ji..it is simply the "aad Granth"... Pothi Sahib...only after 1708 Gurgadhee bestowed by Guur Gobind Singh ji, in the Tabiah of the Panj Khalsa did the Granth transform into the Living eternal Shabad Guru. The PANJ cannot prepare Khandeh batteh dee Pahul WITHOUT the presence of SGGS.. Conclusion: Khalsa is NOT Khalsa without the SGGS..and SGGS is NOT the Guru without Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[Veeru]

Giyaani Ji,

Thank you very much for the further elaboration.

1. Since the fruit has different effect on people, could it be possible that the taste of fruit depends on individual's own taste bud? In other words, what people obtain from taking amrit is depends on their own personality anyways.

2. You mentioned in your previous post that Sehajdharis are those who never graduate. But the literal meaning of Sehajdhari is a slow adapter - the one who takes his/her time to get to his/her destination. Since you have admitted sir that you have not graduated, are you saying you are also a Sehajdhari, at least for now?

This isn't true that we wouldn't fight or give our head for truth. Truth is above all.

Taking Guru Granth Sahib as guru is a personal choice. Guru Granth Sahib has baani of all those greatest gurus and bhagats. Guru Granth Sahib probably covers everything a guru could teach and would have been a great guru even if Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't appoint Guru Granth Sahib as guru.

 

[ISDhillon]

I have a personal interest in the un security council but there is no chance that i could personally cast a vetoe or vote for one of their international security decisions, in the same way only panthic members have the rights to vote for the running of panthic istitutions. For now i will admire the un security council from a distance in the full knowledge that i am not a valid voting institution or deciding member and i will respect the fact that it is not an attack on me personally, in such humility i will move on with my life.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I think the confusion lies in the definition of Sehajdhari. Sehajdhari according to the article and as an accepted term is for a person who doesnot wear Sikhi Baana and is clean shaven. This is nothing to do with a person who wears the Baana but has not taken Khandei de Pahul yet. It is more about the Sikh identity then which milestone he or she is at.

PCJS writes:

Why would you compare Sikhi of first nine gurus to tree and then Amrit to the fruit?

Dear PCJS,

Guru Fateh.

The above metaphor is used to show that lots of us do not embrace something as a whole the way it is meant to be but p{censored} it due to our own self created justifications.

Tejwant

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

sehajdharee exists only in Sikhism...why ??
Other religions have terms as "practising and non-Practising"
A clean shaven person not wearing sikh bana etc would be a NON-Practising sikh !!
2. Then we have a different angle to the word "non-practsiing"...such as a Lawyer having a LLB degree but "not-Practising" due to various reasons ( He is QUALIFIED to practise law but doesnt do it) but this defination cnanot apply to a clean shaven non bana sikh..SUCH a "sikh" is NOT QUALIFIED to be a sikh but calls himself "nonpractising" ?? akin to a "nonpractisiing airline pilot/marine/navy captain...who hasnt seen the inside of an airplane, never attended marine school and doesnt know one end of a boat from the other !!but still says: I am non-practsing pilot/marine/captain !! self delusion !!
Gyani jarnail singh

 

[Veeru]

Vaheguru Seeker ji,

It isn't alot of some, none of us embrace Sikhi as a whole. Had we done so, we would have become one with God. So until we reach that point of being one with God, it's useless to point at others that they aren't perfect.

Giyani Ji,

1. These terms like Sehajdhari or Patit are man-made terms. My assumption is someone in SGPC came up with these terms. I don't believe any of the gurus ever called anybody Sehajdhari or Patit. It's actually offensive that some people refers to others using these terms. I am what I prefer myself to be known as. Nobody has right to refer to me using their home-made terms. Humilty is important in Sikhi. Referring to others with these terms doesn't show any humilty.

Sikhi isn't just another religion. It might be allowed in other religion. But someone who uses any man-made offensive terms to refer to someone can't be a Sikh...

2. Do you really think it makes sense to compare a Sikh to a lawyer or pilot, where specialized training is needed? Being Sikh is more of a spiritual training than anything else. Whatever makes us spiritually wise is what Sikhi is...

 

[Bhai Harbans Lal]

All Sikhs are urged to follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Not many can follow all the teachings, most who claim to be Sikhs make honest attempts to follow as much as they can. We pray that Guru bless all of us with strength to follow what he outlined for us. Even Guru Arjan called himself a half Sikh. Finding faults with others is not a productive attitude. Guru loves all, no one has a right to disqualify any one from Sikhee.

Bhai Harabns Lal

 

[Bhai Harbans Lal]

Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

For Amar Singh ji,

Please send me a hard copy of your article on Sehajdhari Sikhs in writings of Chaupa Singh.
thanks
Harbans Lal

 

[spnadmin]

Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

Bhai ji

You may have to send Amar a private message. He may not realize your request because he posted in this thread some time ago. There is this article however. And there are others I can send you if you wish.

Chaupa Singh Rahit-nama

I must confess that after following up several of the leads and ideas in this thread I am more confused than ever as to whether I am a Sikh, will ever be a Sikh, can realistically expect to be a Sikh, or when it would happen that I am a Sikh. The news articles from 2003 about the voting rights of Sehajdhari make it clear that agreed-upon definitions are hard to come by. And other information from religious sources suggests that even being amrithari may not be definitive.

So what can a person do? Continue to revere Waheguru-- that is all I can do.

Many thanks for your perceptive comments and questions.

 

[harbansj24]

Any person who beleives in and practices Sikhism should ultimately aim to be complete Sikh along with the external symbols. It may take him a while to achieve this objective but he must continuosly endeavor to be on that path. He must be respectful to the Sikh Gurus and to Guru Granth Sahib and not say or do anything that lowers their dignity. He can ask questions with an intent to gain knowledge but not with disrespectful intentions.

Their are any number of persons on this path especially Sindhis and Multanis and many have ultimately adopted compete Sikhi and taken Amrit.
Bhai Chamanjeet Singh ji Lal (earlier Bhai Chamanlal) is a shining example of the same.

Harbans

 

[harbansj24]

Guru Gobind Singh ji firmly institutionalized Sikh religion by giving it the external manifestations. That was the starting point by which Sikhs could confidently say that "Hum Hindu nahin hai!" The setting up of the instituition of Khalsa has been by and large resented bythe non Sikh population of India because now calling the Sikhs as sect of Hiduism was becoming untenable.

This year the Sikh educational instituitions had issued strict instructions that only those persons who kept complete kesh could claim admission under ther Sikh quota. Even girls who plucked their eyebrows were not admitted under this quota. This was challenged in Punjab and Haryana High court. After prolonged and detailed arguments, the court upheld the contention of the institutes.

There is no doubt that many Sehajdari Sikhs have worked very hard and contributed a lot to spreading the message of gurus. But a majority are equally devoted to Hindu Philosophy as well. So they follow dual religions. But when it comes to declaring their religion in official govt. documents many prefer to call themselves as Hindus. The Sindhis in particular do not celebrate Guru Gobind Singh jis Gurupurab.

Whenever we talk about Sikhs, the immediate impression that comes to mind is that of turbaned man supporting unshorn hair and beard. So let it remain that way.

Sikh religion is devoted to spreading the message of the great Gurus. It is not in the business of actively seeking conversions to its faith. This is purely voluntary. So it welcomes all irrespective of their religion or caste to imbibe the Gurus phlosophies into their lives so that they become good human beings irrespective whether they are Sikhs or not.

However to be called a Sikh, one must be devoted only to Guru Granth Sahib and have the external manifestations of Sikh.

This is my humble view and uncomplicated view. I do not have the talent or ability for a learned debate on the subject.

 

[tony]

the term practising and nonpractising Sikhs needs to be defined better, is a practising Sikh just someone who wears the five K's, I have been to the gudwara and many of the sikhs there where hair cutters, no turban, does this mean that they arent practising Sikhs. The Amrit Sikhs insist they are doing it right and insist on quoting the tenth Guru ji as the fruit of the other nine, when in actual fact the real fruit as per the tenth Guru ji is the SGGS ji the eleven and final Guru ji, Was it not Guru Gobind Singh ji who said that the SGGS ji was the eternal Guru and that it governed all spiritual matters and that the Akal Takhat was for all none spiritual matters. So I lead my life as per the orders of Guru Gobind Singh ji and follow the SGGS ji. No mention of five K's or the need of a dastaar in there for my spirituality, so I guess that by the definition of other judging Sikhs I'm a non practising Sikh. And it appears that those who have the Sikh external image ajudge themselves better than I, I live my life according to the eternal Guru the true fruit of the preceding ten, if Amrit and the five K's are the fruit then it isnt ripe as it is these Sikh who judge themselves better than others, Wear your Dastaar with pride, look like the rich and holy, judge me all you like, You have your image, your fruit, I am humble enough to accept you are more a Sikh than I. When Guru Nanak ji gave the turban it was to symbolise equality and now the turban wearers think that they are better, Looks to me that the Amrit Sikhs are becoming very westernised in the fact that image is every thing. Back to page one of SGGS ji for me must of misunderstood the meaning of equality and how image affects spirituality, Pity no ones invented a time machine we could go back and asks the Guru jis for the answer to this question, till they do we can either follow whats actually written by the Guru jis or what we think they may have written or said, Practising or non practising whos right whos wrong we'll never know till its to late will we
Love for all
Tony
No intention to offend just saying as i see it, Sorry

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

the term practising and nonpractising Sikhs needs to be defined better, is a practising Sikh just someone who wears the five K's, I have been to the gudwara and many of the sikhs there where hair cutters, no turban, does this mean that they arent practising Sikhs. The Amrit Sikhs insist they are doing it right and insist on quoting the tenth Guru ji as the fruit of the other nine, when in actual fact the real fruit as per the tenth Guru ji is the SGGS ji the eleven and final Guru ji, Was it not Guru Gobind Singh ji who said that the SGGS ji was the eternal Guru and that it governed all spiritual matters and that the Akal Takhat was for all none spiritual matters. So I lead my life as per the orders of Guru Gobind Singh ji and follow the SGGS ji. No mention of five K's or the need of a dastaar in there for my spirituality, so I guess that by the definition of other judging Sikhs I'm a non practising Sikh. And it appears that those who have the Sikh external image ajudge themselves better than I, I live my life according to the eternal Guru the true fruit of the preceding ten, if Amrit and the five K's are the fruit then it isnt ripe as it is these Sikh who judge themselves better than others, Wear your Dastaar with pride, look like the rich and holy, judge me all you like, You have your image, your fruit, I am humble enough to accept you are more a Sikh than I. When Guru Nanak ji gave the turban it was to symbolise equality and now the turban wearers think that they are better, Looks to me that the Amrit Sikhs are becoming very westernised in the fact that image is every thing. Back to page one of SGGS ji for me must of misunderstood the meaning of equality and how image affects spirituality, Pity no ones invented a time machine we could go back and asks the Guru jis for the answer to this question, till they do we can either follow whats actually written by the Guru jis or what we think they may have written or said, Practising or non practising whos right whos wrong we'll never know till its to late will we
Love for all
Tony
No intention to offend just saying as i see it, Sorry

Tony Ji, unfortunately too many taliban types of closed minds abound...holier than thou types ( BOTH..clean shaven and amrtidharee groups have these Talibans/closed minds). No sense of give and take..forgiveness, humility...acceptance..... instead of tolerance. I have nothing against a sikh who wants to remain a kindergarten student all his life and die in kindergarten..and similarly have not much respect for a bhekhi sikh who wears his kakaars on his sleeve either...SIKHI IS PRACTICAL GURBANI...not theory.

 

[tony]

sehajdharee exists only in Sikhism...why ??
Other religions have terms as "practising and non-Practising"
A clean shaven person not wearing sikh bana etc would be a NON-Practising sikh !!
2. Then we have a different angle to the word "non-practsiing"...such as a Lawyer having a LLB degree but "not-Practising" due to various reasons ( He is QUALIFIED to practise law but doesnt do it) but this defination cnanot apply to a clean shaven non bana sikh..SUCH a "sikh" is NOT QUALIFIED to be a sikh but calls himself "nonpractising" ?? akin to a "nonpractisiing airline pilot/marine/navy captain...who hasnt seen the inside of an airplane, never attended marine school and doesnt know one end of a boat from the other !!but still says: I am non-practsing pilot/marine/captain !! self delusion !!
Gyani jarnail singh

Gyani ji
Could you tell me where you got your qualifications in Sikhi, what course did you take and what was the examining board.
Have you ever to seen inside heavens gates.
Does having the Five K's make you fully experienced and qualified to be a Sikh, in which case i've seen some fully qualified five year olds, who cant even read yet, Doesnt add much wieght to the qualification does it,
You have posted while i was writing this responce Gyani ji and say "you have nothing against someone who wishes to stay in kindergarten all his life and say similarly you have no respect for the Sikh who wears his Five K's on his sleave", does this mean you have no respect for the non bana wearing kindergarten Sikh, just wondering as I find this lack of respect very anti sikhi, Could it be that you are superiour to me, a better sikh may be, Delusions of grandieur spring to mind
Tony