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Jun 1, 2004
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Most of the Sikhs think that perhaps the sehajdhari sikhs were made voters for sgpc elections in Punjab Sikh Gurdawaras act 1925 but it is not so. In this act there was no mention of sehajdhari sikhs and to make them as voters.It was in 1959 that amendment was made in the act to make sehajdhari sikhs as voters. Akali leaders made allegations that it was so done to make non Sikhs as voters by the then congress govt.to take over the control of sikh gurdawaras as the over whelming majority of Sikhs were with Akali dal. There was confrontation between Akali dal and the govt.on the reorganization of Punjab on linguistic basis.In the elections of sgpc held in 1960,Akali dal won 136 seats out of 140 while congress sponsered board could get only 4 seats.Thereafter Akali dal won sgpc elections uptill now and retained its control over it. The amended provision was not exploited and neither it could be so done. Sgpc passed resolutions several times to repeal the 1959 amendment but it was not so done. Just before the 2004 sgpc elections this amendment was undone by govt.of India and sehajdhari sikhs were deprived of the right to be the voters for sgpc elections. Now no sehajdhari sikh can
become voter for sgpc elections.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.

This "sehajdharee" phenomenon is unique to Sikhs only. There are no "sehajdharee" muslims/christians/hindus/jews etc etc. You are either a Muslim or you are NOT. No two ways about it.

Secondly I have yet to meet an EX-MUSLIM....still claiming to be a "muslim". Once they are OUT..they are out for good....but not Sikhs...they may not be sikh at all..BUT they Never let go of the "right" to be "Sikh"..and hence we have sehajdharee sikhs....the slow learners, the late bloomers ???? There sure is something in Sikhi that attracts people even if they cant be perfect full fledged Sikhs..they still want to be identified as sikhs...

I personally know a few friends, who literally know Guru granth ji "backwards and forwards", they can quote verabtim from rehatnamas, Bhai gurdass Ji varaan kabits, Bhai nand Lal Goyas writings...they can do wonderful kirtan, they do nitnem, naam abhiyaas...BUT they CANT/WONT keep HAIR/DASTAAR. Sau hath rassa Sireh te ganddh..when it comes to KESH...they Fizzle out. ?? I am as puzzled as anyone else.


Jarnail Singh
 
Jun 1, 2004
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Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

Armit Pal Singh "Amrit" Ji, thanks a lot of sharing your treasure of abundant sikh historical information with us.

Warmest Regards
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh.

Veer AmritPal Singh ji Amrit has done a commendable job writing up this original article on sehajdharees. Thank you veer Ji.

I really love the "sweet" language veer Ji uses..so full of pyaar...looks like veer ji has imbibed a lot of values from gurbani and Gurmatt. may Waheguru Ji Bless Him with the Best of Health to continue this wonderful parchaar. we are indeed lucky.

Love for all

jarnail Singh
 

amrit

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Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

Dear Veer Aman singh Ji and Veer Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji, it is your bigheartedness, otherwise I am nothing. Thank you very much.
 

Bhai Harbans Lal

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Sep 24, 2004
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Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

The title of this thread is misleading. It only talks about voting in the SGPC elections.Therefore, it should be titled as "Sehajdhari Sikhs as SGPC Voters."

History of Sehajdhari Sikhs will reveal that Sehajdhari Sikhs have been part and parcel of the Panth since the times of the Gurus. They participated in the panthic activities as full members throughout the Sikh history. A lot has been written about their contributions to the Panth. I will be happy to provide references on request.

(Bhai0 Harbans Lal
 

Veeru

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Jun 27, 2004
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Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

This "sehajdharee" phenomenon is unique to Sikhs only. There are no "sehajdharee" muslims/christians/hindus/jews etc etc. You are either a Muslim or you are NOT. No two ways about it.

Jarnail Singh

Giyani ji,

Have you ever found a complete Sikh? If so, please describe why s/he was complete, not a per your own perception of a Sikh, instead as per Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib.

Nobody can become spiritual Sikh, to fit the definition of a Sikh as per Guru Granth Sahib, overnight. Therefore technically all people, who claim to be Sikhs, are sehajdhari.

But since sehajdhari refers to someone who seeks Amrit but are taking their time, those who do not seek Amrit can not be called Sehajdhari but simply Sikhs, especially if they fit the definition of a Sikh as per Guru Granth Sahib.
 
Aug 17, 2006
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Re: History of Sehajdari Sikhs ??

This "sehajdharee" phenomenon is unique to Sikhs only. There are no "sehajdharee" muslims/christians/hindus/jews etc etc.

There is no such thing as a "sehajdhari" jew, true. However, there are many different "kinds" of jews -- orthodox vs. reform is only the first distinction that comes to mind. There are different "kinds" of Christians -- Catholic, Episcopalian, foot-washing Baptist, Mormon (and some people argue about whether Mormons are actually Christians), Quaker, etc.

To the best of my knowledge, Sikhi hasn't had a reform movement like Judaism or a protestant movement like Christianity; it also hasn't split into the myriad of denominations and sects that Christianity has. Sikhi is often presented (in discussions like this one) as an all-or-nothing faith: Either you've taken amrit, wear the 5 Ks, and are a "real" Sikh, or you don't keep kesh and thus are no kind of Sikh at all.

This issue comes up everywhere Sikhi exists, but the discussion doesn't seem to go anywhere. On one side are the people who say "the 5 Ks are external symbols, and that's not what's important about Nanak ji's teachings"; on the other side are the people who say "Gobind Singh ji told Sikhs to wear the 5 Ks, and that should be enough for anybody."

As a newcomer to Sikhi, it's not my place to say "you need to do this" or "you should change that". What I will say is that in my experience, opening topics up for respectful discussion and debate is almost never a bad thing to do.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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First of all its most important to establish a definition of the sikh based on Jugo Jug Atal SGGS jI ( not based on rehatnamas). Then only we will be able to see that who is the sikh and who is not. when we will start following SGGS ji then sikh will only be sikh, no further classifications will be there.
bhul chuk maaf
 

Archived_Member_19

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Jun 7, 2006
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thanks CS ji and roopsidhu ji

atlast i have a chance to discuss with few who understand the view points of difference between structured "religion" and personal "spiritual beliefs"

CS ji , your point on a comparative study with various forms/denominations of Christianity and teachings of Christ are correct correlation to what is happening today in terms of teachings of Guru Nanak and SGGS and "SIKHISM"

Religion - in my understanding , has multiple aspects or levels if i may seek to say,

at a personal level it is the "spiritual beliefs".. these are the ones which connect directly to the "chosen path" for union with "God"
This is also the inner "code of conduct" or conscience.

at a external or Society facing level - it is representation of beliefs in external symbols.. hindu beliefs of murti pooja, wearing a cross etc are examples of this... this is a stage when person wants to declare and share his internal beliefs with external world.... also..it gives physical or worldly aspect or form to the inner thought processes...

At society level , religion becomes the way of proper conduct, rehatnamas, marriage ceremony, hindu yagnas, going to mass, mosque, celebrating festivals, etc are examples of the same. This is the level which people generally percieve as "RELIGION" and a parameter to judge religious-ness of a person.
this stage has minimal to do with spirituality..but works more on human nature of security in inclusion and esteem associated with being "religious"


there is another form.. which has nothing to do with spirituality.. this is a the Religion as a Diktat or theocracy. When "religious" rules drive everything material around a person.


in my understanding,
SGPC was constituted to manage the "SIKH" shrines..

now let us go back to the days when gurudwaras were set up..

their primary purpose was community involvement.. it was a place for like minded people to come and share views, listen to Guru's thoughts, discuss and help themselves in their spiritual quest.

for what they are being percieved currently is a larger issue and slightly out of context...

who all are invited.. everyone !!!........all right..?

so all of the humanity is a stakeholder..theoretically... but those who are msot active are major stakeholders.....

i hope you all would agree....

now in eyes of Gurus and God, all human beings are one and same... pupils...

its only our defined "codes" which seperate the pupils..


so think in the specific case of managing the gurudwaras.. the rules of SGPC go against the Guru's message of equality of humanity...

if this issue of only amritdharis managing SGPC and indirectly the gurudwaras is not stopped..

i am afraid we might see a few years down the line... Mormon Sikhs, "presbeysterian Sikhs", "Jehovah's Witness Sikhs"... and many many more.....

because...it is natural for a human.. due to his/her infalliable nature...to look for all the levels of religion....

it is a natural progression...though not rigid... for a person in his spiritual quest....

many skip some levels...lucky ones....some take time to reach the personal level...but that is the level we all should seek...that is the only level of a "sikh" defined in SGGS.. in my humble opinion...

bhul chuk maaf...

peace
 

Archived_Member_19

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Jun 7, 2006
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<There has to be differnce between Patit and Sahij Dhari.>

who are we to call anyone patit.. ?

God alone is the righteous judge.

PCJS ji

who are we to evaluate anyone's sins ???

are we good enough ?
 
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Veeru

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Jun 27, 2004
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<There has to be differnce between Patit and Sahij Dhari.>

who are we to call anyone patit.. ?

God alone is the righteous judge.

PCJS ji

who are we to evaluate anyone's sins ???

are we good enough ?

This was simply to advise whoever refers to mona as Patit meaning sinner that anybody, whether s/he is mona, amritdhari, sikh or non-sikh, who commits is a Patit. Usually Amritdharis take it for granted that for some reason they have right to call others patits. For some reason, some people don't realize that this develops ego.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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PATIT is one who commits ONE of the FOUR Bajjar Kurehits listed in the Sikh Rehat Maryada.
Only an "Amrtidharee" can become a PATIT.....if he/she commits one or More of the Four Bajjar kurehits.
The Four bajjar kurehits are:
1. Cutting/removing/dishonouring KESH (hair)
2. Eating Hallal Meat
3.Consuming Tobacco and other intoxicants/drugs
4. Cohabiting someone NOT your spouse.(Adultery)

Once an Artidharee commits one or more of these, he/she must pesh before the Sangat of Panj and confess the sin, serve out the tankhaha and rechhak Khande Batteh dee Pahul once more.

A person who is NOT an Amrtidharee therefore cannot be a Patit. He she is just a "Non_amritdharee".

Gyani jarnail Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Sehaj in Sehajdhari is not the same as to attain Sehaj- Gurmat Fulcrum- the prefect balance in the MIRI PIRI way of life.

Sehaj in Sehajdhari means one who is slow to comply. This phrase was coined after Amrit Sanchar in 1699 as not all Sikhs were then ready to take Khandei de Pahul, hoping that all those who have not complied, would in a near future, which they refused and now unfortunately it has become a title for those who refuse to have a Sikhi baana but claim to keep the Sikhi rehat. Little are they aware that Sikhi is not about any title nor about any destination but just about the journey.

Some of the Sehajdharis also claim to love and respect our first nine Gurus but are very reluctant to accept Guru Gobind Singh ji. It is like loving the roots of the tree but rejecting its fruit. True love towards anyone or anything is to comply with what love demands and is worth changing for.

Is this a paradox or oxy{censored}ic, it's only for the seekers to decide.

Tejwant
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Why would you compare Sikhi of first nine gurus to tree and then Amrit to the fruit?
gurmukh paiyare tejwant ji,
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

i too agree with the tree/fruit analogy. imho Guur nanak ji planted the "seed"...the other Gurus continued....and this tree bore the fruit of Khandeh Batte dee Pahul. All trees look simialr...only a look at its FRUIT will show us that it is a Mango tree..Coconut tree..apple tree etc. It doesnt mean neglecting/downgrading the earlier gurus..as in "tree/roots' vs "fruit" etc...no part of a tree is superflous or less important than the others..all work together.

The Symbolism of a TREE is mentioned several times in GURBANI....Akal Purakh is like a TREE..giver of shade and coolness..
Gyani jarnail singh
 
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