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Sabẖhū Ko Ras Har Ho / ਸਭਹੂ ਕੋ ਰਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਹੋ

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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My understanding outside quotes in blue. I stand corrected for any errors which are mine.

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ

गउड़ी महला ५ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5.
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
ਗਊੜੀ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਪੰਜਵੀ।
xxx

xxx
Raag Gaureeh, Guru Arjan Dev ji
ਸਭਹੂ ਕੋ ਰਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਹੋ ੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ

सभहू को रसु हरि हो ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Sabẖhū ko ras har ho. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Lord is the essence of all. ||1||Pause||
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਸ਼ੈ ਦਾ ਨਚੋੜ ਹੈ। ਠਹਿਰਾਉ।
ਕੋ = ਦਾ। ਸਭਹੂ ਕੋ = ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦਾ। ਰਸੁ = ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ ਆਨੰਦ। ਹੋ = ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਹਰਿ = ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਸਭ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦਾ ਸ੍ਰੇਸ਼ਟ ਆਨੰਦ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ॥
Ultimate happiness for all is in one creator understood
ਕਾਹੂ ਜੋਗ ਕਾਹੂ ਭੋਗ ਕਾਹੂ ਗਿਆਨ ਕਾਹੂ ਧਿਆਨ

काहू जोग काहू भोग काहू गिआन काहू धिआन ॥
Kāhū jog kāhū bẖog kāhū gi▫ān kāhū ḏẖi▫ān.
Some practice Yoga, some indulge in pleasures; some live in spiritual wisdom, some live in meditation.
ਕਈ ਯੋਗ ਦੀ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਕਈ ਖਾਹਿਸ਼ਾਂ ਦੀ ਪੂਰਤੀ, ਕਈ ਬ੍ਰਹਿਮ-ਵੀਚਾਰ ਤੇ ਕਈ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਦਾ ਅਭਿਆਸ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਕਾਹੂ ਜੋਗ = ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਜੋਗ ਕਮਾਣ ਦਾ ਰਸ ਹੈ। ਭੋਗ = ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਮਾਨਣੇ। ਧਿਆਨ = ਸਮਾਧੀ ਲਾਣੀ।

(ਪਰ) (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਖੁੰਝ ਕੇ) ਕਿਸੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਜੋਗ ਕਮਾਣ ਦਾ ਸ਼ੌਕ ਪੈ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਮਾਨਣ ਦਾ ਚਸਕਾ ਹੈ। ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਗਿਆਨ-ਚਰਚਾ ਚੰਗੀ ਲੱਗਦੀਹੈ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਾਧੀਆਂ ਪਸੰਦ ਹਨ,
Some do yoga, Some so enjoy consuming, Some research, Some contemplate so quiet
ਕਾਹੂ ਹੋ ਡੰਡ ਧਰਿ ਹੋ ੧॥

काहू हो डंड धरि हो ॥१॥
Kāhū ho dand ḏẖar ho. ||1||
Some are bearers of the staff. ||1||
ਕਈ ਸੋਟਾ ਰਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਾਧੂ ਹੋਣਾ ਪਸੰਦ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਡੰਡ ਧਰਿ = ਡੰਡਾਧਾਰੀ ਜੋਗੀ ॥੧॥

ਤੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਡੰਡਾ-ਧਾਰੀ ਜੋਗੀ ਬਣਨਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੧॥
Some hold stick and do yoga
ਕਾਹੂ ਜਾਪ ਕਾਹੂ ਤਾਪ ਕਾਹੂ ਪੂਜਾ ਹੋਮ ਨੇਮ

काहू जाप काहू ताप काहू पूजा होम नेम ॥
Kāhū jāp kāhū ṯāp kāhū pūjā hom nem.
Some chant in meditation, some practice deep, austere meditation; some worship Him in adoration, some practice daily rituals.
ਕਈ ਮੂਹ ਜ਼ਬਾਨੀ ਉਚਾਰਣ ਕਈ ਤਪੱਸਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਕਈ ਉਪਾਸਨਾ ਹਵਨ ਤੇ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਆਰ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਤਾਪ = ਧੂਣੀਆਂ ਤਪਾਣੀਆਂ। ਹੋਮ = ਹਵਨ। ਨੇਮ = ਨਿੱਤ ਦੀ ਕਾਰ।

(ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ) ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ (ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਵੱਸ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ) ਜਾਪ ਪਸੰਦ ਆ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਧੂਣੀਆਂ ਤਪਾਣੀਆਂ ਚੰਗੀਆਂ ਲੱਗਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਵ-ਪੂਜਾ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰਹਵਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਦੀ ਨਿੱਤ ਦੀ ਕਾਰ ਪਸੰਦ ਹੈ,
Some do repeated renditions, Some do ritualistic fires, Some worship deities, daily Havan rituals of fire
ਕਾਹੂ ਹੋ ਗਉਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਹੋ ੨॥

काहू हो गउनु करि हो ॥२॥
Kāhū ho ga▫un kar ho. ||2||
Some live the life of a wanderer. ||2||
ਕਈਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਫਿਰਨ ਤੁਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਜੀਵਨ ਭਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਗਉਨੁ = (ਧਰਤੀ ਉਤੇ) ਰਮਤੇ ਸਾਧੂ ਬਣ ਕੇ ਫਿਰਦੇ ਰਹਿਣਾ ॥੨॥

ਤੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ (ਰਮਤਾ ਸਾਧੂ ਬਣ ਕੇ) ਧਰਤੀ ਉਤੇ ਤੁਰੇ ਫਿਰਨਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੨॥
Some wander around singing
ਕਾਹੂ ਤੀਰ ਕਾਹੂ ਨੀਰ ਕਾਹੂ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ

काहू तीर काहू नीर काहू बेद बीचार ॥
Kāhū ṯīr kāhū nīr kāhū beḏ bīcẖār.
Some live by the shore, some live on the water; some study the Vedas.
ਕਈ ਕਿਨਾਰੇ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਆਰ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਕਈ ਪਾਣੀ ਤੇ ਕਈ ਵੇਦਾ ਦੇ ਪੜ੍ਹਨ ਨੂੰ।
ਤੀਰ = ਕੰਢਾ, ਨਦੀ ਦਾ ਕੰਢਾ। ਨੀਰ = ਪਾਣੀ, ਤੀਰਥ-ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ।

ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਸੇ ਨਦੀ ਦੇ ਕੰਢੇ ਬੈਠਣਾ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਤੀਰਥ-ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ, ਤੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਪਸੰਦ ਹੈ।
Some on the banks of a river, Some do holy baths, Some study the Vedas scriptures
ਨਾਨਕਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਹੋ ੩॥੨॥੧੫੫॥

नानका भगति प्रिअ हो ॥३॥२॥१५५॥
Nānkā bẖagaṯ pari▫a ho. ||3||2||155||
Guru Nanak loves to worship the Lord. ||3||2||155||
ਨਾਨਕ ਨੂੰ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਹੈ।
ਪ੍ਰਿਅ = ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥੩॥

ਪਰ, ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਭਗਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਆਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ ॥੩॥੨॥੧੫੫॥
Guru Nanak loved is that contemplates

ESSENCE: Guru Arjan Dev ji catalog so many rituals, practices and regimens followed by many and sundry. Varying from repitioous singing, wanderers singing, sitting in Samadhi at river banks, havans, holy baths, studying Vedas.

Guru ji state nothing is even at par. Above par is the contemplation of one creator.
This sabad cuts across many hotly contested and debated items like parroting, simran as chanting, yogic samadhis, fire rituals like havans, holy baths and many religious practices in India.

Wonderful clarity. All comments welcome.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Ambarsaria ji,
Bhagati is
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary
(1) ਉਪਾਸਨਾ, ਸ੍ਰਧਾ। (2) ਭਗਤਾਂ ਨੇ। (3) ਭਗਤਾਂ ਤੋਂ। (4) ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਕੇ, ਭਗਤੀ ਸਦਾ। (5) ਭਗਤੀ/ਸਰਧਾ/ਪਿਆਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਭਗਤੀ ਰਤਿਆ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੩, ੩੭, ੩:੨ (27)}। ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਭਾਣਾ ਭਗਤੀ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਸੇ ਭਗਤ ਪਏ ਦਰਿ ਥਾਇ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੩, ਅਸ ੧੯, ੩:੨ (65)}। ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਕ ਕਉ ਬਿਘ

English Translation
n.f. devotion, worship, devotionhal love of deity; meditation, religious observances.
Bhagati is cultivating love and devotion to a personal God and as the last line says "O Guru Nanak, God loves such love and devotion (worship is love and devotion)." The shabad advocates for Bhagati and if you do your research you'll find chanting, meditation, worship etc often arise out of Bhagati and are even prescribed by Guru Nanak time and time again, as a way to connect to God and to subdue the inner ego.
 
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Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Bhagat Singh ji thanks for your comments.

ਭਗਤਿ = ਭਗਤੀ ਦੇ
Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਸੰ. ਭਕ੍ਤਿ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਵਿਭਾਗ. ਬਾਂਟ. ਤਕਸੀਮ। (2) ਸੇਵਾ. ਉਪਾਸਨਾ।(Humble service, Contemplation) (3) ਸ਼੍ਰੱਧਾ. "ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਗੁਰਭਗਤਿ ਹੈ". (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੩) "ਭਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਹੈ". (ਸ੍ਰੀਮਃ ੩)¹ [¹"अथावो भक्ति जिज्ञासा, सा परानुर्गश्विरे" (ਸ਼ਾਂਤਿਲਯ ਸੁਤ੍ਰ).]

ਭਗਤ
Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਸੰ. ਭਕ੍ਤ. ਵਿ- ਵੰਡਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ. ਵਿਭਕ੍ਤ। (2) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਅੰਨ. ਭੋਜਨ। (3) ਭਕ੍ਤਿਵਾਲਾ ਸੇਵਕ. ਉਪਾਸਕ. (Humble servant, Contemplator)"ਭਗਤ ਅਰਾਧਹਿ ਏਕਰੰਗਿ". (ਬਿਲਾ ਮਃ ੫) "ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਭਾਣਾ ਮੰਨੈ, ਸੋਭਗਤ ਹੋਇ". (ਮਃ ੩. ਵਾਰ ਰਾਮ) ਦਯਾ ਦਿਲ ਰਾਖੈ ਸਬਹੀ ਸੋਂ ਮ੍ਰਿਦੁ ਭਾਖੈ ਨਿਤ ਕਾਮਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਹੌਮੈ ਕੋ ਦਬਾਵੈ ਜੂ, ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮੇ ਨ ਤੇਖੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਮੇ ਏਕ ਬ੍ਰਹ੍*ਮ ਦੇਖੈਲਘੁ ਲੇਖੈ ਆਪ, ਕਰ ਨੇਮ ਤਨ ਤਾਵੈ ਜੂ, "ਦੇਵੀਦੱਤ" ਜਾਨੈ ਏਕ ਹਰਿ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਮੀਤ, ਔਰ ਜਗਤਕੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਮੇ ਨ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਸਰਸਾਵੈ ਜੂ, ਦੁਖਿਤ ਹਨਐ ਆਪ, ਦੁੱਖ ਔਰ ਕੇ ਮਿਟਾਵੈ, ਏਸੋਸ਼ਾਂਤਪਦ ਪਾਵੈ, ਤਬ ਭਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਜੂ. ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਚਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਦੇ ਭਗਤਵਰਣਨ ਕੀਤੇ ਹਨ- (ੳ) ਕਾਮਨਾਵਾਨ, ਜੋ ਧਨ ਸੰਤਾਨ ਆਦਿ ਦੀ ਇੱਛਾ ਨਾਲ ਉਪਾਸਨਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ. (ਅ) ਆਰਤ, ਜੋ ਰੋਜ ਦੁੱਖ ਆਦਿ ਦੇ ਮਿਟਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਭਕ੍ਤਿ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ. (ੲ) ਉਪਾਸਕ, ਜੋ ਇਸ੍ਤੀਵਾਂਙ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਭਰਤਾ ਮੰਨਕੇ ਸੇਵਨ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ. (ਸ) ਗਿਆਨੀ, ਜੋ ਸਰਵਰੂਪ ਆਤਮਾ ਨੂੰਦੇਖਕੇ ਉਪਾਸਦੇ ਹਨ। (4) ਇੱਕ ਕਾਸ਼੍ਤਕਾਰ ਜਾਤਿ, ਜੋ ਜਿਲਾ ਸ਼ਾਹਪੁਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੈ। (5) ਦੇਖੋ, ਭਗਤਬਾਣੀ.
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com
There is no question about ਭਗਤ, ਭਗਤਿ (Bhagat, of Bhagati) are widely used in Indian religions and culture. In this sabad such is clarified that all examples given are not what is meant. Many do and understand the examples as extrapolation of Sikhism from common usage outside of Sikhism. That is against the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I do not believe it is a complicated sabad to understand. It is stated in your face style what is meant.
Practices noted NOT, unencumbered contemplation and understanding YES.
Feel free to quote a complete sabad with what your are basing your comments on and we can all review.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Ambarsaria ji,
Bhagati is a way of union with God through love and devotion. Now to cultivate love and evotion specific practices (upasana) are used: listening, singing, repeating, chanting, servicing, surrendering, etc. Bhagati in itself does not mean intuitive understanding. The intuitive understanding comes from doing Bhagati.

As for other shabads, I have already posted numerous such shabads during our previous interactions on mysticism and other threads. Please review them.
Here are some of them for your convenience:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37654-creator-god-sri-guru-granth-sahib-13.html#post157468
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/questions-and-answers/37585-akhand-paath-and-sitting-darbar-sahib-4.html#post156855
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/37649-does-sikhism-embrace-mysticism-4.html#post157081
 

Ambarsaria

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Veer Bhagat Singh ji thanks.

I will review if we need further dialog to extend and share understanding. Very fascinating fine lines with potential great divide and clarification.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Bhagati is a way of union with God through love and devotion. Now to cultivate love and evotion specific practices (upasana) are used: listening, singing, repeating, chanting, servicing, surrendering, etc. Bhagati in itself does not mean intuitive understanding. The intuitive understanding comes from doing Bhagati.
By Union, I gather you mean the connection. Correct me if you have a different take on it. Or does it mean something totally different as one can never be disunited from the omnipresence of Ik Ong Kaar?

Why would one surrender to THE ONE who is in all of us and everywhere or by surrender,do you really mean is to get rid of me-ism?

I agree with the Listening,Singing, Reading, Understanding and Practicing the Guru Shabad to make our lives better and share that goodness with others. If by repeating/chanting you mean to engrave the message of Gurbani - as we do in our Nitnem- and breed goodness in our hearts and souls, then I agree with that too. But if you mean just parroting a couple of words from the 1429 pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru then it is nothing more but one more mechanical ritual which Guru Nanak was against and so are the 1429 pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru. There are no specific practices for a Sikh as you have mentioned in your post. However Hindus used them for some reasons, but Guru Nanak was against those as explained below.

The true Bhagati is understanding and practicing Gurbani in order to make this world better. Bhagati is not the one legged stance for hours and nor is it hanging like a monkey for hours as Guru Nanak mentions in Sidh Ghosht.

These are things these Hindus called as true Bhagatis and named themselves as Bhagats. What a true Bhagat is explained very well by Guru Nanak in Pauri 21. Guru Nanak clearly uses the word for Bhagat, "HONAH" which requires continues actions of sharing goodness. Guru Nanak on purpose did not use the word "BANANAH"- to have become because according to Sikhi it is neither a title nor a destination but to the contrary, unlike in Hindu theology.

You seem to be confused between the Hindu concept of Bhagati and the Sikhi one. You should learn to differentiate the two because there is a difference and it is in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

Please read the following described by Ambarsaria ji from Jap Pauri 21. Now, if you have a different interpretation about it, please share with us so we can all learn from it.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji...tml#post158152

We will talk about your Shabads later on, once we have clarified the above.

I fail to understand one thing from you, that whenever you are challenged about what you write, you are kind enough to agree about the challenge and promise to respond which you have failed to do so far.

Is this the true Bhagati are you talking about?:)

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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By Union, I gather you mean the connection. Correct me if you have a different take on it. Or does it mean something totally different as one can never be disunited from the omnipresence of Ik Ong Kaar?
Haha Tejwant Singh ji, One is never disconnected from God either. Thus united and connected mean the same.
I will clarify that connected to me seems like a temporary thing where you cultivate a connection and then it breaks and you do so again. Whereas being united is a permanent thing. Where you intuitively see the Omnipresence of God always.

One need not actually be disunited/disconnected in order to feel disunited/disconnected. In other words, there maybe a diamond in one's pocket but until it is brought into awareness, one does not even know about it, and goes on living as if there was no diamond there.

Why would one surrender to THE ONE who is in all of us and everywhere or by surrender,do you really mean is to get rid of me-ism?
Surrender and ridding oneself of Me-ism also means the same. What are you surrendering if not the "me"?

repeating/chanting you mean to engrave the message of Gurbani - as we do in our Nitnem- and breed goodness in our hearts and souls
Yes. It does both.

I fail to understand one thing from you, that whenever you are challenged about what you write, you are kind enough to agree about the challenge and promise to respond which you have failed to do so far.
Which challenge was this?
 

Tejwant Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji

Guru Fateh.

you write:

One need not actually be disunited/disconnected in order to feel disunited/disconnected. In other words, there maybe a diamond in one's pocket but until it is brought into awareness, one does not even know about it, and goes on living as if there was no diamond there.
If you have a diamond in your pocket then you should/must be aware of it. Now, if you have Zirconia in your pocket and you convince yourself that it is real diamond, then it is a different story all together.:)

Surrender and ridding oneself of Me-ism also means the same. What are you surrendering if not the "me"?
Well, then surrender is wrongly used as a term in the English translation of the Gurbani. Actually, we are looking for tools to get rid of Me-ism from SGGS, our only Guru. There is no war between my Guru and myself, to the contrary. It is camaraderie, a very close friendship. One does not need to surrender to one's best friend but seeks his/her help

My Quote:
repeating/chanting you mean to engrave the message of Gurbani - as we do in our Nitnem- and breed goodness in our hearts and souls
Your response:

Yes. It does both.
By both you do not mean parroting one or 2 words from the 1429 pages of SGGS, our only Guru, I suppose but understanding Gurbani and putting it into practice.

But my main point of the post was your definition of Bhagat and Bhagati that you used in Sikhi which I challenged you about and you ignored to respond to that.

My post:
I fail to understand one thing from you, that whenever you are challenged about what you write, you are kind enough to agree about the challenge and promise to respond which you have failed to do so far.
Your response:

"Which challenge was this?"
Just re-read our last interaction which took place several days ago in which I challenged you that you do not respond to what I ask you in my posts. After claiming you did. But after some self reflection,it was nice of you to admit that you do not and assured me that you would in the future.

Still waiting.:)

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Tejwant Singh ji,
I actually did respond later (as I said I would) but on a different thread. Though I felt you did not understand that response (either). Anyway I am satisfied by your words in this thread that chanting and repeating "breed goodness in our hearts and souls".

I also agree with your definition of Bhagat and Bhagati hence I don't find it a challenge.

Edit: One relationship to God can be that of a friend (soulbride with husband lord) or it can be that of a Master-disciple where the disciple surrenders himself and his narrow understanding of reality in exchange for the understanding of the Master. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in different parts appeals to many such relationships including the mother/father- child relationship as well. These are emotions one cultivates in order to obtain connection and union, in the Bhagati method.
 
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Tejwant Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

I actually did respond later (as I said I would) but on a different thread. Though I felt you did not understand that response (either).
This makes no sense. If you had responded to it, then I would have read it. And now you are saying that you are sure that I have read it but did not understand it either. You being the judge and the jury here. Please give me the url and give me the right to decide whether I understand it or not. If I understand it differently or not, you will hear from me, but please do not judge others. Learn to ask questions if I have understood something you wrote which I specifically asked for.

Anyway I am satisfied by your words in this thread that chanting and repeating "breed goodness in our hearts and souls".
I am glad you have changed your mind about parroting one or two words and call it a meditation which does not exist in Sikhi,.

I also agree with your definition of Bhagat and Bhagati hence I don't find it a challenge.
Well, your definition of Bhagati was from the Hindu theology not from the Sikh point of view. I am happy to know that you have grasped the Sikhi idea of Bhagati now.

Edit: One relationship to God can be that of a friend (soulbride with husband lord) or it can be that of a Master-disciple where the disciple surrenders himself and his narrow understanding of reality in exchange for the understanding of the Master. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in different parts appeals to many such relationships including the mother/father- child relationship as well. These are emotions one cultivates in order to obtain connection and union, in the Bhagati method.
Please quote Gurbani from SGGS, which says for one to surrender. Please do not use the word from the literal translation but express it in your words about the word from the Shabad.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Ambarsaria

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Please do not use the word from the literal translation but express it in your words about the word from the Shabad
Veer Tejwant Singh ji what is the sustaining remedy for this situation. Young and old alike are too tempted to take what comes easy. "Surrender" is mentioned 96 times at Srigranth.org. I checked couple of the citations and were very out of context. This is such a temptation though! Look at other traps on appearance of common others,

Meditate 1613
Surrender 96
Name 4970
Chant 1589

Very disturbing but I don't see a practical easy solution :)situps::8-:) ).

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Veer Tejwant Singh ji what is the sustaining remedy for this situation. Young and old alike are too tempted to take what comes easy. "Surrender" is mentioned 96 times at Srigranth.org. I checked couple of the citations and were very out of context. This is such a temptation though! Look at other traps on appearance of common others,

Meditate 1613
Surrender 96
Name 4970
Chant 1589

Very disturbing but I don't see a practical easy solution :)situps::8-:) ).

Sat Sri Akal.
Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

I totally agree with you that many words like surrender etc etc are used in the English literal translation even though the word in Gurmukhi is not what it says.

I will give you one more example and I explained it to the Sangat. The word Enraptured is used 74 times according to srigranth.org. The day I was explaining the Hukumnaama in the Gurdwara, this word flashed on the screen and we had visiting Councilmen/women from Las Vegas and Henderson the same day.

The meaning of the word in English is as follows:
Adj.1.enraptured - deeply moved; "sat completely still, enraptured by the music"; "listened with rapt admiration"; "rapt in reverie"Synonyms: rapt, captive

2.enraptured - feeling great rapture or delightSynonyms: ecstatic, rapturous, rhapsodic
http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/enraptured

However, its origins are quite dreadful. It comes from the word Rapture which means Jesus' return and the judgement day for those who do not become Christians. In other words the Jews and others who do not convert to Christianity will be thrown in the bubbling cauldron and will die.

So this is what people will feel. They will be all enraptured when Jesus returns and all the non- believers are either converted or killed.

I explained to the Sangat the meaning of Rapture and after it was all over, the guests came to me and said they were surprised to see that on the screen because they knew the origin of the word.

On the other hand, the Gurdwara committee President told me not to mention if the translation is incorrect. In other words, let the devotees leave the Gurdwara, the way they came, with their heads in the sand.

The only solution is from great sevadaars like you. You are doing an excellent job in Sukhmani and now you have said that you have finished the Saloks of Sheikh Farid. In fact we do have another thread on it started by Astroboy ji in which lots of us pitched in. You should check that too if you have not already.

So, Sevadaars like you and others including myself should start using different words which have the right intentions of what our Gurus want us to learn.

This problem started when we let the Christian missionaries translate SGGS with the Biblical slant and sad to say, their followers followed in the same manner and still do.

Hence, this forum should be the trailblazer to bring the true meaning from Gurmukhi to English and you are its flag bearer.

Thanks for all your help. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

This Shabd is found on page 874 of the SGGS ji.

First, the CONTEXT.

The systematic corruption of spirituality by the clergy is a phenomenon that cuts across all major spiritual thought...

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