Beyond The Theologians: Japji Sahib 21st Pauree

Nirmaljot Baidwan · #1 (**permalink**) 24-Feb-2011, 22:52 PM

The thought is based on the understanding of 21st pauri of JAPJI SAHEB.

The pundits know naught
Of the dawn of Thy creation
To record it in the puranas,
Nor have the qazis seen that time
To put it down in the quran,
Nor do the yogis know
Of the season, hour,date nor day.

That beautiful hour
When he made the world,
he alone doth know;
beyond our speech, our praise,
our description and knowledge
Is the beautiful maker!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-ji-sahib/34625-beyond-theologians-japji-sahib-21st-pauree.html

Still they speak of Him,
Each and all according to their mite,
As one is wiser than another.
He is the great and the infinite one, and great is his nam;
What he wills comes to pass.
he knows whatever is.

If anyone else says he knows Him,
He is but a fool
In the eyes of the dwellers
Of higher regions.

There are skies above skies
And earths below earths,
And man's mind is tired
Of this great search,
It cannot reach the end of his vastness.

All knowledge of man
And his thousand books proclaim
But one substance of which
All this is made.
There is one metal in all.
None else! None else!

How can the infinite
Be reduced to the finite?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34625
All attempts to describe Him are lost.
The infinite knows the infinite.

Ours is to lose ourselves
In worship and adoration,
Nor need we ask, Why?
No need to fathom the unfathomable:
As the rivers flow to the sea with their song,
Let us flow on to the infinite,
Not knowing how wide is the ocean's flood.

spnadmin · #2 (**permalink**) 24-Feb-2011, 23:02 PM

Nirmaljot Baidwan ji

We need a reference or a url for this article. Is this your personal translation? Or did you find it on the web? It looks very familiar to me, but I can't place it. So a source is urgent. If not available, then I will have to delete the thread.

If it is your translation please also provide the Gurmukhi and the Ang number. If it the translation of someone else, then we need that reference. Our forum members would want to be able to evaluate the translation against other established translations, and the understanding of Professor Sahib Singh and his Guru Granth Darpan. Thank you.

Ambarsaria · #3 (**permalink**) 18-Dec-2011, 04:37 AM

My understanding of Japji Sahib Pauri 21. I stand corrected and all errors are mine,

(Ref: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...1&p=0&k=0&fb=1)

ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
Ŧirath ṯap ḏa▫i▫ā ḏaṯ ḏān. Je ko pāvai ṯil kā mān.

Pilgrimages, rigor body discipline, mercifulness, giving alms. Such who receive honor so miniscule.

ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ॥ ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ॥
Suṇi▫ā mani▫ā man kīṯā bẖā▫o. Anṯargaṯ ṯirath mal nā▫o.

Heard in the heart “of the creator”, so developed understanding and loved. Internally have so thoroughly cleansed self.

ਸਭਿ ਗੁਣ ਤੇਰੇ ਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
Sabẖ guṇ ṯere mai nāhī ko▫e. viṇ guṇ kīṯe bẖagaṯ na ho▫e.

All virtues in creator “in you”, I am nobody. If not blessed with virtue, cannot so piously dwell in understanding of so.

ਸੁਅਸਤਿ ਆਥਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਬਰਮਾਉ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਣੁ ਸਦਾ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ॥
Su▫asaṯ āth baṇī barmā▫o. Saṯ suhāṇ saḏā man cẖā▫o.

Glorious immortal one you for all ofl worldly items, creation and the creator. Eternal, enchanting, for ever joy ebullition in mind.

ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ ॥ ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
Kavaṇ so velā vakẖaṯ kavaṇ kavaṇ thiṯ kavaṇ vār. Kavaṇ sė ruṯī māhu kavaṇ jiṯ ho▫ā ākār.

What times, what time of day, what lunar day, what day of the week. What season, what month, when creation was created

ਵੇਲ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥ ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
vel na pā▫ī▫ā pandṯī jė hovai lekẖ purāṇ. vakẖaṯ na pā▫i▫o kāḏī▫ā jė likẖan lekẖ kurāṇ.

Pandits (Hindu scholar/Priest) did not determine the time, otherwise there will be a treatise. Kazis (Muslim scholar/Priest) could not determine the time, or will have written in fashion like Koran

ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਜਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਿਰਠੀ ਕਉ ਸਾਜੇ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ॥
Thiṯ vār nā jogī jāṇai ruṯ māhu nā ko▫ī. Jā karṯā sirṯẖī ka▫o sāje āpe jāṇai so▫ī.

Such a lunar day, day of the week, season or month the hermits did not figure out. Creator who so created the universe, such knows so by self.

ਕਿਵ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਾ ਕਿਵ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਕਿਉ ਵਰਨੀ ਕਿਵ ਜਾਣਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
Kiv kar ākẖā kiv sālāhī ki▫o varnī kiv jāṇā. Nānak ākẖaṇ sabẖ ko ākẖai ik ḏū ik si▫āṇā.

How can I say, what virtues, how to write and how to understand. Guru Nanak all living try to say, one smarter than the other one

ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਵਡੀ ਨਾਈ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਪੌ ਜਾਣੈ ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੨੧॥
vadā sāhib vadī nā▫ī kīṯā jā kā hovai. Nānak je ko āpou jāṇai agai ga▫i▫ā na sohai. ||21||

Grand master, greater eminence, happening as of such. Guru Nanak one who by self intelligence claims knowledge, hereafter does not find honor.

Quote:

ESSENCE: Guru Nanak Dev ji discuss the incidence of creation and knowledge about it, to say, the Hindu respected religious astute or Muslim equivalents. Guru ji also question the theorists with claims of such knowledge better than each other.

Guru ji from study find no tangible record of such in Hinduism or Islam.

Guru ji simply state that such is only known to the one creator and any claims are not worthy.

Sat Sri Akal.

spnadmin · #4 (**permalink**) 18-Dec-2011, 05:31 AM

Good thing then that I never did delete the thread. Thanks for your seva and your insight.