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Reincarnation / Transmigration: Revisited & Re-explored

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Reincarnation / Transmigration: Revisited & Re-explored

Apr 12, 2007
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so who exactly are you? is the current persona that is writing this post relevant?
Just a reply on the formation of relevance as you've viewd relevance as a word of relevance that fact lies in your personal perception of things what is relevance is it your personal insight in another's is it in each other's perceptions all sorts of relativity I say speak your mind. Sometimes relevance isn't decided by thoughts but by the cosmos itself I see your depth but the criteria isn't much thought based. If I were to say a grain of salt is as irrelevant as a debate. What say you; is even a grain of salt relevant? Would you throw away each grain you find? Then see how relevant one grain is. Is each atom relevant you do gain insight on Einstein, but not the nature of relativity lol. That's the answer to you relatively trying to find justification or relevance to your answer. Realistically it's all irrelevant so carry on good day. Yes your as irrelevant as the persona your asking that question to kind of exciting opportunity to reevaluate your own post. Lol.
 

Harry Haller

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Just a reply on the formation of relevance as you've viewd relevance as a word of relevance that fact lies in your personal perception of things what is relevance is it your personal insight in another's is it in each other's perceptions all sorts of relativity I say speak your mind. Sometimes relevance isn't decided by thoughts but by the cosmos itself I see your depth but the criteria isn't much thought based. If I were to say a grain of salt is as irrelevant as a debate. What say you; is even a grain of salt relevant? Would you throw away each grain you find? Then see how relevant one grain is. Is each atom relevant you do gain insight on Einstein, but not the nature of relativity lol. That's the answer to you relatively trying to find justification or relevance to your answer. Realistically it's all irrelevant so carry on good day. Yes your as irrelevant as the persona your asking that question to kind of exciting opportunity to reevaluate your own post. Lol.
If we look this deep, in my opinion, we miss the starving child, the rape and torture of innocents and the very beauty of the world that stands in stark duality to the ugliness.

I do not believe in fate, destiny, god like intervention or transmigration, to me, who I am is hugely relevant as what I can see, think or do. I am always interested in others views, as mine are not absolute, we are all learning.
 

Pathfinder

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To me personally the 8,400,000 lives seem more like the approximate number of failures - of the self, the number of times I have and continue to stumble down the well lit path as defined by the Nanak Guru's. The number could be a little lesser than the times I have, continue to, will falter actually. I hope I don't 'die' 8,400,000 times or more really. Each time the Manmukh overpowers the Gurmukh, each time a random, stray thought that the five vices command wins I die in a sense. Each time I vow to not let it happen again I am reborn. At the rate I am going sadly I will overshoot the average number of lives I guess.

Oops ..just realised it's an old thread. No worries though, posting on the phone is easier than deleting now, lol.
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Gurbani tells us through numerous shabads that there is only ONE. This ONE is formless and is all there is. Within that one and from that one, arises forms, ALL forms. The manifest arises from the unmanifest as a dream with all it's various forms manifests from the unconscious formless consciousness. Therefore all forms ARE the ONE. That means all of us are really dream characters in the dream of only ONE dreamer, Waheguru. This changes the fundamental way that 'reincarnation' is understood. The only reason we seem separate, through duality, is the Ego which is not the true identity. The divine which lies behind every set of eyes, the 'I AM' if you will, the experiencer, is really Waheguru. The Ego (haume) identity is created out of duality and a result of this physical existence. When the body dies, the Ego identity of that lifetime dies, however, the consciousness, the experiencer does not. It's hard to imagine actually. But envision that you just awoke from an accident, with no memories of your entire life to that point. Effectively everything was erased, but there is still an awareness there. That helps to understand a little bit more. So when the physical body dies, that conscious awareness does not. I know many people will disagree with me, but I have my understanding and it's based on reading thousands of subjective near death experiences, Gurbani, kathas on gurbani on this subject, and person experiences. This is just how I have come to understand it and is what I believe Gurbani is saying.

There is a tuk in Gurbani which says (paraphrased because I can't access srigranth.org right now) but it says as Gurmukh, when one realizes his OWN SELF, and that HE IS ME, what more is there to do or to have done?

So what exactly is being reincarnated? A drop as from the ocean? But that drop never ceases to be water even though it goes though different states of being. IN this case, that drop is conscious awareness, a small part of the doer. And Gurbani tells us there is only ONE doer.
 

Original

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Sat Sri Akal - Sailor Sahib

I'm gonna lend you my specs to see if it stacks, get focused; here we go !
To me personally the 8,400,000 lives seem more like the approximate number of failures - of the self
If we turn to page 472 SGGSJ, it tells us that life started in water [ਪਹਿਲਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਹੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ] and if we now turn to Charles Darwin's TOE, we find the same reference there. If that'd be correct then it follows that we've progressed and not retreated.
the number of times I have and continue to stumble down the well lit path as defined by the Nanak Guru's.
..they too speak of realisation in this "human" form and none of the others preceding it. Like you, who knows what perils they'd encountered before human birth.
The number could be a little lesser than the times I have, continue to, will falter actually.
..it is only when we fall that we learn to pick ourselves up and understand purity having experienced impurity by reason or existence. You're only human - why worry !
I hope I don't 'die' 8,400,000 times or more really
..dedicate 85th to the house of Nanak and rest assure guru ji will ferry you to eternity. Gurbani's terminology thus, is something like this "..jeevat mariya bhavjal tariya" [SGGSJ, 775].
Each time the Manmukh overpowers the Gurmukh, each time a random, stray thought that the five vices command wins I die in a sense.
..that's your perception ! learn to enjoy the amazing potentialities of the human you [meaning, manmukh] on the proviso that it will one day end and the "gurmukh" will takeover. The real journey home will begin then. So for now, spoil yourself silly on the basis its all a play and the real deal is about to kick-in - later !
Each time I vow to not let it happen again I am reborn.
..you seem to present a typical case of a guy who acts, reflects and evaluates ! question is, when do you get to live ?
At the rate I am going sadly I will overshoot the average number of lives I guess.
..hey brother, know that you're connected to the "word", meaning shabd guru [waheguru] only good can accrue full stop! you aren't here on your own freewill, you were gravitated to the shabd guru like flux is to the magnet, and a moth to the flame. You think you're in control, truth be told, you're not. Its that simple, but of course, the rational mind is not comfortable with that because the notion of faith [Sikh] seems to demand acceptance without any credible evidence or rational basis. There are none because Nanak's satnam doesn't exist in physical forms but in spiritual heights and since its non-matter, you'd need non-matter system of belief [Sikh] to take you there.
Oops ..just realised it's an old thread. No worries though, posting on the phone is easier than deleting now, lol.
..yeah, just as well, old is gold !

Enjoy the festivities -
 

Pathfinder

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Sat Sri Akal - Veerji,

If we turn to page 472 SGGSJ, it tells us that life started in water [ਪਹਿਲਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਹੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ] and if we now turn to Charles Darwin's TOE, we find the same reference there. If that'd be correct then it follows that we've progressed and not retreated
Is that not evolution?. Reincarnation to me seems like a metaphor that the Nanak's used was what i was trying to say, my personal view of course

..they too speak of realisation in this "human" form and none of the others preceding it. Like you, who knows what perils they'd encountered before human birth.
This life, now, that is all that concerns me - just being a good perfect human in sync with the Hukum as stated by the Nanak's. Yesterday, tomorrow does not matter. Just for the moment is all i am worried and concerned about. I am not of the opinion that the Human form is a privilege or that this is the only or best way to attain the final merger for even animals can attain merger with Waheguru. Human form is not a privilege but one of the toughest to merge in the Hukum as it appears to me. Living in Hukum is what is required and the rest is irrespective of form. This Human form is more challenging though, it corrupts easily. My personal view again of course. I cannot quote any shabad in support of this but this is what i feel.

..it is only when we fall that we learn to pick ourselves up and understand purity having experienced impurity by reason or existence. You're only human - why worry !
I do not want to goof up repeatedly at least in front of my Commander. He has given me a simple task and a checklist with an instruction manual. He is a very forgiving Captain but that gives me no reason to seek excuses for my frailty.

..dedicate 85th to the house of Nanak and rest assure guru ji will ferry you to eternity. Gurbani's terminology thus, is something like this "..jeevat mariya bhavjal tariya" [SGGSJ, 775].
my leaky boat in the middle of the ocean with no sight of land terrifies me sometimes, yes Waheguru plugs the breaches in my hull like you stated rightly

..that's your perception ! learn to enjoy the amazing potentialities of the human you [meaning, manmukh] on the proviso that it will one day end and the "gurmukh" will takeover. The real journey home will begin then. So for now, spoil yourself silly on the basis its all a play and the real deal is about to kick-in - later !
Tragically, I disagree strongly. To me humankind is the most ungrateful creation of Waheguru and one that has run away furthest from the Hukum. Human are amazingly the darkest to me, you see light in the human clan and i see an abyss of darkness. Very few exceptions, very few. To me, there is no later, if i can somehow crawl back into the Hukum - it has to be now, right now and stay there as long as i can or else i keep staring at the withered signboard which says - Never.

..you seem to present a typical case of a guy who acts, reflects and evaluates ! question is, when do you get to live ?

Off late, i Live during the simran in the amritvela - at least i feel alive then so i know i am living. Other times i could not be dead maybe. Yes, i want to feel alive more. I found this amazing Wahe guru simran, shall post the link. i listen to it endlessly. it keeps ringing in my soul all day and night off late.
here it is

..hey brother, know that you're connected to the "word", meaning shabd guru [waheguru] only good can accrue full stop! you aren't here on your own freewill, you were gravitated to the shabd guru like flux is to the magnet, and a moth to the flame. You think you're in control, truth be told, you're not. Its that simple, but of course, the rational mind is not comfortable with that because the notion of faith [Sikh] seems to demand acceptance without any credible evidence or rational basis. There are none because Nanak's satnam doesn't exist in physical forms but in spiritual heights and since its non-matter, you'd need non-matter system of belief [Sikh] to take you there.
true, no wonder i seek the nitty gritty of sailing my boat from the wonderful sangat here. so much i dont understand and so much that i misunderstand. this much i know - as long as i stay on this road, endless kind souls will give me a lift towards Waheguru. So many like you and others here veerji have been doing it already.

WGJDK WGJDF
 
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Is that not evolution
..that is very much evolution ! but like all things, "change" is fundamental and evolution is no exception. It's time for the theory of Darwinian evolution to "evolve" to Nanak's evolution, meaning, human transformation to spiritual through a process called Sikh. Nanak says, 'as you think so you become', think good therefore and become good. Moreover, human to surrender mind to an ideology of metaphysical existence.
Reincarnation to me seems like a metaphor
..that's one way of looking at it, albeit, inconsistent with ideological and theoretical thinking of the faith Sikh. I think what is important here is that you're making sense of it in your own way - great !
This life, now, that is all that concerns me
..okay, but surely this "now" is preceded and succeeded at either end by something, is it not ?
just being a good perfect human in sync with the Hukum as stated by the Nanak's.
..being "good n perfect" by Nanak's standard is acceptable insofar, a belief system, but what of the non-believers, what standard must they accord to since morality isn't objective? And, who sets those standards?
Yesterday, tomorrow does not matter
..think of them as states of being, comparable to the three states of consciousness, conscious [today], subconscious [yday] and unconscious [tmoro]. And, since there exists a relationship [general relativity] of a liner cause-and-effect mechanism, yesterday n tomorrow form part of the human experience. Pathfinder today is different from the Pathfinder yday [say 10 years back]. Spiritual and intellectual maturity comes with the passage of time, hence, yesterday and tomorrow indispensable. Moral being, yday n tomorrow are part of the human condition that cannot be eliminated, but yes, "transcended".
Just for the moment is all i am worried and
concerned about.
..from a spiritual perspective that's well n good, but because you're on the physical plane [Earth] you're chained to the evolutionary modes of perception, conception, space, time, cause n effect. As part of the human condition you cannot shake them off even if you wanted to. The question here would be to ask is, what "moment" ?. Nanak would have us believe of the moment where there is none of the above baggage, meaning, fourth state of being. That of course, is a state of the contemplative you, meaning, the transcendence.
I am not of the opinion that the Human form is a privilege
..without making it a game of words, let us understand the word "privilege" and see why Sikh thought render human birth a privilege.

Given there exists a general relationship between the creator [Sovereign God, meaning, ruler] and creation [say humans, subordinates], by virtue thereof a "particular" relationship of master-servant comes into operation automatically. That is not to say, such a relationship doesn't exist between the creator n the rest of creation, no, but as far as we know, no other creature "willfully" binds itself to such subordinated disposition. Hence, human birth a privilege of a kind to serve the Creator, from a theoretical perspective.
or that this is the only or best way to attain the final merger
In the Sikh sense of the word merger would mean "liberation" from what is otherwise a prison [this world]. Theoretically speaking, Sikhism doctrine is of a teleological view, both purpose-meaning of life are clearly defined.
for even animals can attain merger with Waheguru
..only if they knew of separation in the spiritual sense of the word separation?
Human form is not a privilege but one of the toughest to merge in the Hukum as it appears to me. Living in Hukum is what is required and the rest is irrespective of form. This Human form is more challenging though, it corrupts easily. My personal view again of course. I cannot quote any shabad in support of this but this is what i feel.
...page 644 of SGGSJ, think human form a privilege to merge with "amrit" within, the same is denied to animals on account deficient conglomeration [ghar he main amrit bharpoor ha......].
I do not want to goof up repeatedly at least in front of my Commander. He has given me a simple task and a checklist with an instruction manual. He is a very forgiving Captain but that gives me no reason to seek excuses for my frailty.
..what if you are the commander and this perhaps is a refreshers course ?
To me humankind is the most ungrateful creation of Waheguru
..in that case, let us not exacerbate any further and call it a day since humankind is depreciative of such an endowment.
Human are amazingly the darkest to me, you see light in the human clan and i see an abyss of darkness.
..but we both see, right ? wear my shades [khalsa] and see the difference. Just as a 3D movie cannot be truly viewed without the necessary apparatus neither can life be seen from within a perspective that has special choreographic effects.
To me, there is no later, if i can somehow crawl back into the Hukum - it has to be now, right now and stay there as long as i can or else i keep staring at the withered signboard which says - Never.
...its about time to become "hukam"- hence, the merger. This would take away the duality of you n me, this n that and just be "Pathfinder", noun [meaning, nam] and no more the adjective, "finding".
Off late, i Live during the simran in the amritvela - at least i feel alive then so i know i am living. Other times i could not be dead maybe. Yes, i want to feel alive more. I found this amazing Wahe guru simran, shall post the link. i listen to it endlessly. it keeps ringing in my soul all day and night off late.
..this is a blessing [meaning, gur Prasad] by the grace of Guru !
true, no wonder i seek the nitty gritty of sailing my boat from the wonderful sangat here. so much i dont understand and so much that i misunderstand. this much i know - as long as i stay on this road, endless kind souls will give me a lift towards Waheguru. So many like you and others here veerji have been doing it already.
...the beautiful you will see the beautiful me because the inner eye is opening. It is the connection with the word that manifests in such choreographically designed environment. There is value to be had in what you write, meaning, you're sum1 special.

Take care - until we communicate again !
CIAO
 
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RD1

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I am undecided at this point on whether reincarnation/transmigration is "for real" or metaphorical. It is repeatedly mentioned in SGGS ji, and it is mentioned how this human form is finally our chance to become one with the Creator.

I wonder though, is our desire to reject the idea of reincarnation a product of "logical scientific thinking?" Is reincarnation just too "magical" and "illogical," and so we reject it? Is this a result of conforming to westernized fundamentalist thought? Our human minds have a limited scope. We are not capable of perceiving and understanding everything in the universe. Our small minds have their limits. Perhaps reincarnation in the literal sense does exist, who knows. There are actually scientists who are studying reincarnation and think it does in fact exist.
 

Pathfinder

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I wonder though, is our desire to reject the idea of reincarnation a product of "logical scientific thinking?" Is reincarnation just too "magical" and "illogical," and so we reject it? Is this a result of conforming to westernized fundamentalist thought? Our human minds have a limited scope. We are not capable of perceiving and understanding everything in the universe. Our small minds have their limits. Perhaps reincarnation in the literal sense does exist, who knows. There are actually scientists who are studying reincarnation and think it does in fact exist.
the basis of my rejection in the literal sense does not have any basis in logically or scientifically reasons. i live in an offgrid farm for almost half a year now. i never had any true love for science most of the time - anyway, lol.

It just feels so - just a feeling. i feel it is the journey and the stumble really which is being referred to.

A metaphor. I do not know how to say it or express it really - ok, try this - Oh death, come to me - i pray, and stay - by my side ( oh life - what if, are you? i swear, longed for you - so long)..
is the angel here happy, sad, broken or has found some deep profound revelation is open to you. nothing you can say of her is wrong.

do i feel proud that i am human?. after all if this is the only way to a merger i must be superior to the cutie cutie doggy of mine in a sense. the little four legged kiddo wags his tail, the one who wakes me up at amritvela daily without fail, the one who loves me unconditionally. without any conditions he loves me a thousand or million fold times more than i love the Gurus, the Nanaks. All he wants is to be with me, in my lap, at my feet, even if he cannot see me - just knowing that i am around is comforting to him. i know the Guru is around me at all times but i am never comforted in half the way the waggy waggy kiddo is, lol.. so when i am told i am a superior species, i cringe at the even the remote possibility of such a thought. If between my poppy and me there is a curse, i believe it is inflicted on me. The little fellow lives in Hukam naturally. i hug him and he wags his bushy tail. i ignore him and he wags his bushy tail. his wagging is because of his own happiness which is never dependent on my actions. he loves the rains, loves the beach, loves chasing cats, loves this, loves that, loves everything,lol. at night he barks at things only a 'tailman' can see, lol. he forces even non-existent love for him out of me, something or rather something so far from a fact true of me at least - i cannot even awaken or rightly express my love for my Guru because i falter in the rehat. sorry humans, i disagree to the fact that we are superior. my little doggy does not need extra guidance as he lives in the hukam perfectly. its me who does - us. Ten Nanak's , one autobiography of guidance and directions and still we are lost - Superior, lol. Most of the clan cannot wake up physically at amritvela, forget spirutually, lol.

besides, who needs proof, at least sailors - do not. i lived on the oceans since i was 18. spent two decades and more and never saw one but i know mermaids exist, lol - she camouflaged herself as a dolphin and followed me in the pacific, lol. i met angels in my life - but they hide their wings you know, lol. the world is magical. for example when you cross the equator, leave behind the horse latitudes, go to a off the grid place to load ore, a place - called 'red-dog', lol (its in Alaska) you realize nothing is illogical. the world is magical, so surreal that you realize the only truth can be Waheguru, nothing else. Nothing else is so full of magic, nothing else is so logical.

like i said before, each time i falter i am dead, each time i vow to not falter again i live. that is reincarnation to me. i would feel blessed if it took just 8400000 lives to reach a state of mind which is not a fleeting stay or a one second connection of bliss to the wondrous domain - as human i know how frail i am.

literal reincarnation does not bother or concern me, but i just do not subscribe to the superior species theory.

lol, did i get touchy - lol, if i sound so - i dont know why or what for honestly. The Nagar Kirtan was beautiful today and we spent most of the day at the Gurudwara. was a blessed day really. lol,

RD1 Gursikh Ji - you are one of the nicest persons around and a special one because you are way too beautiful, clear and educative in your posts.
to be shamelessly honest - you remind me of the 'RD 350', lol - google that, i wont let you in on this one. I longed, i loved, i rode, i lived - before we parted, lol. i love your username for that really - the sweet reminders it ignites of a long gone era.

maybe my four legged kid wagged and hugged me a while back that i got all misty eyed and sentimental i guess. whatever, poppy is sleeping so majestically knowing he will be taken care of - wish i could do the same, after all the Guru is so much better at taking care than this mortal, lol.

besides literal reincarnation seems so un- sikh like to me - here and now is what Sikhi is all about. yes - the body recycles, flesh to mud and thus a million forms before it becomes flesh again, maybe - i am guessing this.

as a Sikh it should not even bother one - reincarnation. its irrelevant really.
i was alone they said - when the blade sliced my wrist,... truth is, i was alone for so long...
sorry i do not know how to express it in prose, besides its a metaphor...

That was so offtopic and so long, sorry all, lol. guilty as charged. My poppy alarm is on full volume now, lol...take care all.
 

Tejwant Singh

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I am undecided at this point on whether reincarnation/transmigration is "for real" or metaphorical. It is repeatedly mentioned in SGGS ji, and it is mentioned how this human form is finally our chance to become one with the Creator.

I wonder though, is our desire to reject the idea of reincarnation a product of "logical scientific thinking?" Is reincarnation just too "magical" and "illogical," and so we reject it? Is this a result of conforming to westernized fundamentalist thought? Our human minds have a limited scope. We are not capable of perceiving and understanding everything in the universe. Our small minds have their limits. Perhaps reincarnation in the literal sense does exist, who knows. There are actually scientists who are studying reincarnation and think it does in fact exist.
RD1 ji,

Guru Fateh.

Reincarnation is the well ingrained belief in Hinduism but rejected at the same time by our Sikh Gurus. Please read the whole Shabad/s about it and check the last lines to see if Sikhi accepts it or not. The sad part is that most of the Sikhs do not read the whole Shabads and do away with one liner or two in the case regarding reincarnation and what Gurbani talks about it. There are many threads regarding this. Please check them out and share your views.
 

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Good morning Everyone - have a wonderful start to 2017 !
I am undecided at this point on whether reincarnation/transmigration is "for real" or metaphorical. It is repeatedly mentioned in SGGS ji, and it is mentioned how this human form is finally our chance to become one with the Creator.
..think of it evolution ! doesn't the theory of evolution tell you [Darwin] that life started in water and if that'd be correct then doesn't everything up until now [human] make sense scientifically of the term "reincarnation" ? And, isn't human evolution a linear progression, in that, we were small brained primates who once climbed trees and are now on the verge of colonising the universe, wow ?

Soul [atma] search will reveal a great deal for the journey is of the soul and not of the mind and the body. SGGSJ, 1429 directs the soul to that end...thal vich tin vastu...vichar !

Now, consider the following within the spiritual perspective:

ad sach, jugad sach, ha bhi sach, nanak hosi b sach [jap ji sahib] ! What Nanak is saying is that, sat [truth] has always been here [present] and its you the human who in the process of evolution [reincarnation] have now come to realise and understand the "akath katha" [story of creation - soul] and are able to do something about it, as a result. It is in this regard the human is credited with the capacity [brain power] to rationalise, discipline and make amends accordingly to exit the physical plane for good and become 1 with Waheguru. Moreover, this is the feature within Sikhism that allows the soul to transcend to spiritual heights way beyond the fetters of time n space where none of this yesterday and tomorrow exist.

Enjoy the day !
 

Harkiran Kaur

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I am undecided at this point on whether reincarnation/transmigration is "for real" or metaphorical. It is repeatedly mentioned in SGGS ji, and it is mentioned how this human form is finally our chance to become one with the Creator.

I wonder though, is our desire to reject the idea of reincarnation a product of "logical scientific thinking?" Is reincarnation just too "magical" and "illogical," and so we reject it? Is this a result of conforming to westernized fundamentalist thought? Our human minds have a limited scope. We are not capable of perceiving and understanding everything in the universe. Our small minds have their limits. Perhaps reincarnation in the literal sense does exist, who knows. There are actually scientists who are studying reincarnation and think it does in fact exist.
Please read my previous posts on a different way to view transmigration. When we realize that "he is me' then we understand. There is no me or you which is reincarnating. What we associate with our identity in this life is the haume the ego and that dies. But the conscious awareness behind the ego identity does not die and that is what goes on. That conscious awareness is the same ONE in all. Like one dreamer dreaming and we are all the dream characters but there is only the one dreamer who is controlling it all. That's why everything is his 'hukam'.
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Good morning Everyone - have a wonderful start to 2017 !

..think of it evolution ! doesn't the theory of evolution tell you [Darwin] that life started in water and if that'd be correct then doesn't everything up until now [human] make sense scientifically of the term "reincarnation" ? And, isn't human evolution a linear progression, in that, we were small brained primates who once climbed trees and are now on the verge of colonising the universe, wow ?

Soul [atma] search will reveal a great deal for the journey is of the soul and not of the mind and the body. SGGSJ, 1429 directs the soul to that end...thal vich tin vastu...vichar !

Now, consider the following within the spiritual perspective:

ad sach, jugad sach, ha bhi sach, nanak hosi b sach [jap ji sahib] ! What Nanak is saying is that, sat [truth] has always been here [present] and its you the human who in the process of evolution [reincarnation] have now come to realise and understand the "akath katha" [story of creation - soul] and are able to do something about it, as a result. It is in this regard the human is credited with the capacity [brain power] to rationalise, discipline and make amends accordingly to exit the physical plane for good and become 1 with Waheguru. Moreover, this is the feature within Sikhism that allows the soul to transcend to spiritual heights way beyond the fetters of time n space where none of this yesterday and tomorrow exist.

Enjoy the day !
Exactly. Evolution of the entire universe... elements, mineral, plant, animal and finally human and human is the only form capable of contemplating the very important question 'who am I and why am I here?'

I read a quote once that describes reality as the expression of the ONE conscious creator experiencing itself subjectively through its own creation. When you are ONE there is no one else to contemplate. It's only through duality and a different perspective which that ONE can understand its own truth.
 
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chazSingh

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I am undecided at this point on whether reincarnation/transmigration is "for real" or metaphorical. It is repeatedly mentioned in SGGS ji, and it is mentioned how this human form is finally our chance to become one with the Creator.

I wonder though, is our desire to reject the idea of reincarnation a product of "logical scientific thinking?" Is reincarnation just too "magical" and "illogical," and so we reject it? Is this a result of conforming to westernized fundamentalist thought? Our human minds have a limited scope. We are not capable of perceiving and understanding everything in the universe. Our small minds have their limits. Perhaps reincarnation in the literal sense does exist, who knows. There are actually scientists who are studying reincarnation and think it does in fact exist.
In my opinion, in my search for self discovery.."what, who am I" it was important for me to 'realize' if i am just the body, or am 'I', the 'experiencer' something that is beyond just the physical self...will 'I' the 'experiencer' live on once the body turns to dust

Through Simran or Waheguru...Guru Ji gave us a means to realize this, experience it...provide proof to oneself...in this lifetime...

having confirmed this...then who's to say i have not taken other bodies in the past...other characters in this creation, other lifeforms...maybe i have...maybe i haven't...it's actually not so important...i feel it's more important to understand where i am now...as a person...my desires, my faults, my ego'istic nature...and moving forward with the help of Guru Ji to somewhat break free from their clutches...
 
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Original

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In my opinion, in my search for self discovery.."what, who am I" it was important for me to 'realize' if i am just the body, or am 'I', the 'experiencer' something that is beyond just the physical self...will 'I' the 'experiencer' live on once the body turns to dust

Through Simran or Waheguru...Guru Ji gave us a means to realize this, experience it...provide proof to oneself...in this lifetime...

having confirmed this...then who's to say i have not taken other bodies in the past...other characters in this creation, other lifeforms...maybe i have...maybe i haven't...it's actually not so important...i feel it's more important to understand where i am now...as a person...my desires, my faults, my ego'istic nature...and moving forward with the help of Guru Ji to somewhat break free from their clutches...
Chz - too good ! beautifully put !
...then who's to say i have not taken other bodies in the past...other characters in this creation, other lifeforms...maybe i have...maybe i haven't...
,,you have, but you don't remember; that's because the self [kilo of nerve cells] dies in each of its life forms. The spiritual you survives the death of the physical body, bringing with it as it were, dharam [path in previous life] and karm [deeds from previous life].
it's actually not so important
..very important because the search is on for the other half - the half you're separated from, hence the never-ending cycle. And, when you've found your other half you will come no more. Sikh ideology is to an end to reunite the separated soul with its other half - stay tuned because your other half could be a 36-26-36 and I might just have that in stock !

[Edit] - by the way, pick up that Bhulleh Shah and connect with your other half or let me have your postal address and I'll put 1 in the post for ya !

Love n Live
 

RD1

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literal reincarnation does not bother or concern me, but i just do not subscribe to the superior species theory.
I agree with this. I do not believe that humans are in any way superior to any other species. This type of mindset has led to the mass destruction of the earth and many of its creatures.

you remind me of the 'RD 350',
lol now that does look pretty cool!

as a Sikh it should not even bother one - reincarnation. its irrelevant really.
Agreed. As Sikhs we do not live to obtain some reward in the "afterlife," but we live to cultivate the best within us - the Divine.
 

RD1

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I read a quote once that describes reality as the expression of the ONE conscious creator experiencing itself subjectively through its own creation. When you are ONE there is no one else to contemplate. It's only through duality and a different perspective which that ONE can understand its own truth.
Interesting perspective! I wonder just how much eastern religions overlap in some of their ideologies. I read a book by Alan Watts - "The book on the taboo against knowing who you are" - his philosophy is based on eastern religions, mostly Hinduism and Buddhism. What he wrote about in this book matches the perspective you have put forth.
 

Original

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Good morning RD1 Ji
As Sikhs we do not live to obtain some reward in the "afterlife,"
..terminologies such as "reward, transmigration, afterlife, etc." are pretty much European expressions and not Sikh per se. Moreover, Sikh thought is absolutely clear about the moral/theological concept "..as ye sow, so shall ye reap", [jo karay so bhara] meaning, law of karma is fixed ! Question of afterlife reward doesn't arise, but what does arise is the idea of the separated soul being invited to consider exiting the wheel of birth, growth, decay death and rebirth [since separation is suffering] and reunite with Waheguru indefinitely.

In my humble view, it is always advisable to have some foundational knowledge of Sikh Ideology and theoretical thinking in order to take on the conceptual world-view from a particular standpoint. This could then be said to have at least two important aspects. First, it is a sign of increasing intellectual maturity and second, the ability and the confidence to take sides in intellectual debates.

Much obliged !
Take care
 
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RD1

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In my humble view, it is always advisable to have some foundational knowledge of Sikh Ideology and theoretical thinking in order to take on the conceptual world-view from a particular standpoint. This could then be said to have at least two important aspects. First, it is a sign of increasing intellectual maturity and second, the ability and the confidence to take sides in intellectual debates.
How would you know how much foundational knowledge I or someone else may have, and how we may apply these? Are you the gatekeeper of "intellectual maturity?" We are all here to learn and explore various Sikh concepts.
 

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