Regarding Sikh Girls

[Archived_Member_19]

<<O.K. then giving and taking dowry is also personal choice why people are against it.if an Ias officer can fetch dowry of 10 million rupeesss from any rich girl then its his personal choice.No need to say anything against dowry.AFTER ALL ITS PERSONAL CHOICE WE SHOULD RESPECT THE SENTIMENTS OF THOSE MEN WHICH ARE CAPABALE OF FETCHING SUCH HIGH DOWRY.>>
anyways...now you are stretching it to extremes,
parting with money, own or parents is different from cutting your hair or not.

still,

guys have right to keep dreaming of dowry...and girls have right to get them arrested


<<There are various cosmetic treatments available these days for girls to enhance there beauty like silicon implants,skin color improvement etc.How about if boys ask girls to
do take these treatments after all its a matter of personal choice and sentiments.>>

lol

i still donot understand you, you mean that guys have right to ask girls to get boob jobs done?

if a girl wants to get it done, heck yeah its her personal choice, as long as she is adult and understands medical implications.

 

[Astroboy]

An advisory opinion will not resolve the issues.

 

[kds1980]

anyways...now you are stretching it to extremes,
parting with money, own or parents is different from cutting your hair or not.

still,

guys have right to keep dreaming of dowry...and girls have right to get them arrested

No sir I am not at all stretching it to extreme .I am just supporting personal choice.If a
Man could fetch dowry of 10 million rupees and if rich girl and her parents are ready to give A man 10 million rupees then why is it consider it as wrong or crime.Also from where the question of arrest has come when both parties are readies.

lol

i still donot understand you, you mean that guys have right to ask girls to get boob jobs done?

if a girl wants to get it done, heck yeah its her personal choice, as long as she is adult and understands medical implications.

I don't know why you are not at alll understanding it.I am just saying that if girls want's men to change their appearance for them then men have every right to ask them to change their apperance for them even if it is through cosmetic surgeries.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

the issue is not whether girls get their hair cut or not


issue is the unrealistic expectation from others to conform to one's perception of the right way.

<<No sir I am not at all stretching it to extreme .I am just supporting personal choice.If a
Man could fetch dowry of 10 million rupees and if rich girl and her parents are ready to give A man 10 million rupees then why is it consider it as wrong or crime.Also from where the question of arrest has come when both parties are readies.>>

then its a gift my dear and not dowry

but if a man asked for money......then even if girl's parents agree, it is a crime...so as the law of the land says.


<<I don't know why you are not at alll understanding it.I am just saying that if girls want's men to change their appearance for them then men have every right to ask them to change their apperance for them even if it is through cosmetic surgeries.>>

if a girl asks a guy to cut hair, he has same right as a girl who has the right to show her middle finger if the guy asks her to get a boob job without her personal choice for it.

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - Be True.

 

[kds1980]

then its a gift my dear and not dowry

but if a man asked for money......then even if girl's parents agree, it is a crime...so as the law of the land says.

Then 90% of dowry in india is just a gift people just give indirect hints and everbody knows why a guy is marrying girl even the girl herself

Amar i Just have a question to you would you support those families who bid their boys for money and say that stop bashing those familes which love money.I am not saying dowry harrassment I am just saying if they marry their boys to highest bidder without any force and
with willingness of both parties.

if a girl asks a guy to cut hair, he has same right as a girl who has the right to show her middle finger if the guy asks her to get a boob job without her personal choice for it.

That's what I am saying No girl will take that boy in high standard and will bash her whenever she gets chance. similarly people are just bashing those girls which are askling sikh boys to cut hair.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

nope

i think ppl are bashing even those who got their hair cut and prefer guys with hair cut.

this bashing is because guys with hair are confused, they like girls with hair cut, but want them to keep hair.

invasion of personal choice


on dowry issue

as i said it is not even remotely linked, one is personal choice with own body, life and second is material and monetary


i wanted to make the point that guys whining abt girls prefering guys with cut hair need to stop and relook at themselves. Assess what they want in life and work towards it, not force it on others.

 

[kds1980]

nope

i think ppl are bashing even those who got their hair cut and prefer guys with hair cut.

this bashing is because guys with hair are confused, they like girls with hair cut, but want them to keep hair.

invasion of personal choice

No one here said that cut hair girls should stop cutting their hairs.The original poster is just complaining how sikh sikh girls are discriminating sikh boys boys because they are sardars this is not a case of personal choice its a clear case of discrimination.

on dowry issue

as i said it is not even remotely linked, one is personal choice with own body, life and second is material and monetary


i wanted to make the point that guys whining abt girls prefering guys with cut hair need to stop and relook at themselves. Assess what they want in life and work towards it, not force it on others.

This Dowry issue is not linked with this issue but it is just to show you example's of personal choice's which could be bad for communities ,society.Sikh girls very well know
that how much importance is given to sikh swaroop in sikhism and even if they discriminate against sikh men only on the basis of this then they don't have any right to be call a sikh themselves

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<No one here said that cut hair girls should stop cutting their hairs.The original poster is just complaining how sikh sikh girls are discriminating sikh boys boys because they are sardars this is not a case of personal choice its a clear case of discrimination.>>>

i donot see any discrimination, they donot refuse to be friends with them. it is just that their choice fr life partner is different. what is wrong with it?

and your second part of the post just sums up why i say that people are bashing girls for their choices.


<<Sikh girls very well know
that how much importance is given to sikh swaroop in sikhism and even if they discriminate against sikh men only on the basis of this then they don't have any right to be call a sikh themselves>>

now you sound like a fanatic - my opinion of sikh swaroop is final...blah blah blah....

since when did sikhi relate to outer more than inner?

 

[Archived_Member1]

Yes then feminists should also stop blaming men for prefering beautiful fair skinned girls,
housewives etc.Its also a personal choice.

no, the double standard is that guys with turbans and beards want girls who wax, do their eyebrows, etc.

all your talk about skin color seems a bit racist to me.

 

[kds1980]

i donot see any discrimination, they donot refuse to be friends with them. it is just that their choice fr life partner is different. what is wrong with it?

and your second part of the post just sums up why i say that people are bashing girls for their choices.

Its clear case of discrimination.Sikh panth give's lot of value to sikh swaroop and if any girl call herself sikh then she has to accept sikh swaroop.What's the gurantee that a clean shaven sikh man will remain clean shaven all his life there is every chance that he start
wearing turban and keeping kesh then what? divorce

On the issue of personal choice i already gave you example of how dowry could be personal choice.

now you sound like a fanatic - my opinion of sikh swaroop is final...blah blah blah....

since when did sikhi relate to outer more than inner?

May be i sound like a fanatic but a little bit of fanaticism is good for religion.As far as sikhi is concerned both inner and outer are part of sikhi

no, the double standard is that guys with turbans and beards want girls who wax, do their eyebrows, etc.

all your talk about skin color seems a bit racist to me.

Dear jasleen

The above is just an example not an opinion.The guys who reject girls who do not wax
or make eyebrows also do not have any right to wear turban themselves.They are equally guilty But so far i have not heard even a single case of guy rejecting girlbecause she does not wax but the whole internet is full of complaints from turbaned sikhmen even on non sikh sites.

As far as skin color is concerned it is the bitter reality of India.Its so easy for fair skinned girl to find best husband without dowry and its so difficuilt for dark skinned girls to find good husbands.Parents have to shed high dowry for their dark skinned daughters.

 

[Archived_Member1]

The above is just an example not an opinion.The guys who reject girls who do not wax
or make eyebrows also do not have any right to wear turban themselves.They are equally guilty But so far i have not heard even a single case of guy rejecting girlbecause she does not wax but the whole internet is full of complaints from turbaned sikhmen even on non sikh sites.

i've seen some of the sites you read, you posted a blog before about a guy who, looking for a wife, flew to the US to meet a girl who cuts her hair and then was upset when she suggested he should trim his beard. it's total hypocrisy. maybe they're not saying, "i'm looking for a girl who waxes/threads/trims", but when it comes down to it, i will bet that most of them wouldn't want a girl with a mustache or thick eyebrows or whatever. i know there are a lot of gursikh girls out there... it's absurd to think that a gursikh girl would ask a guy to shave. if these guys looked for gursikh girls, looked for amritdhari girls, they wouldn't have such a problem.

i have a friend who was told repeatedly not to take amrit before marriage because "no one will want to marry you". what's up with that? where are all these so-called gursikh men if a girl is told that amrit will mess up her marriage prospects? i know a lot of girls who are told that if they wear a dastaar men won't want to marry them. where are these so-called gursikh guys then?

i'll tell you, they're out looking for bollywood lookalikes instead of Singhnees of Guru Sahib.

 

[Sikh80]

As the last post of jasleen ji was that i read, i am tempted to post the views that i have formed here in India in regard to marriage as i am in the process. I am not an Amritdhari and it may be difficult for me to be so.May be after some time .But right now it is not an agenda item.
It is true Jasleen ji, it is only an Amritdhari sikh who would prefer an amritdhari girl. May be things become easier for them to carry on with their practice.I think one of the single most item would be a decision to instal Granth Sahib at home or to visit Gurudwara and be in HIs company and guidance.
This becomes an issue afterwards.If both are not amritdharies the decision and the choice becomes debatable.
Let me put it this way.I have not seen a single girl who is Amritdhari. It is not to suggest that the place that I live in won't be having amritdhari Ladies. There may be many. But they are not to be seen. I have many sikh friends.But I do not know a single Amritdhari.May be there are many.But I meet them in Gurudwara. It may be on account of the fall in the value of sikhism or something else I shall not comment.
Yes, I can surmise the predicament,that there would be many, of an Amritdhari girl who is married to a non Amritdhari.Just to add here ,I know of men who have in their late fifties have become Amritdharis to practice sikhi more seriously.

No one looks for a girl who is extremely beautiful. At least some people do not have beauty as a major criterion. She should be an admixture of a educated and also a good housewife besides following the general norms as are applicabe to sikh ladies.

I think the values have undergone a change especially after the economic oppurtunities have opened up. People would be satisfied with if The girl is educated and can carry herslf confidently. She may keep hairs as well.No one will bother about these minor things. I think girls are,themselves, concsious of these things.yes one would definetly see if the girl wears patka/dastar or not.

The views expressed are subjective as well.I am not from a family of Amritdharis.This also matters in the matter of opinion formation and following sikhi in that fashion. I do not have any statistics to support that Amritdharis in India are only in small numbers. They may not constitute 5 percent.[This figure may be inflated ]
E&oe

 

[Archived_Member1]

Let me put it this way.I have not seen a single girl who is Amritdhari. It is not to suggest that the place that I live in won't be having amritdhari Ladies. There may be many. But they are not to be seen.

maybe that's because people discourage them from taking amrit by saying they'll never find husbands. kind of sad when culture overrides religion.

i think you'll see more young amritdhari women in the US/Canada, but i could be wrong.

 

[Sikh80]

maybe that's because people discourage them from taking amrit by saying they'll never find husbands. kind of sad when culture overrides religion.

i think you'll see more young amritdhari women in the US/Canada, but i could be wrong.

I do not agree with you. Culture has no effect on a decision that has to be your own.Becoming Amritdhari or not is a decision that I have to take. Even my parents cannot thrust this upon me. I think it is a social culture that would matter plus how much convenience or the absence of the same a girl will have when she has to work in an office. It is the economic need that will govern if you would be an amritdhari lady or not. The employer will take you even if if you are a girl with dastar. But the girl will always be conscious of this at workplace. I think it is the reason.The patka/dastar is anachronistic.

May be In US percentage wise ,Amritdharis may exceed as compared to India. But in absolute terms it is,as usual, always my India on top.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Its clear case of discrimination.Sikh panth give's lot of value to sikh swaroop and if any girl call herself sikh then she has to accept sikh swaroop.What's the gurantee that a clean shaven sikh man will remain clean shaven all his life there is every chance that he start
wearing turban and keeping kesh then what? divorce >>

sikh swaroop...and calling one self sikh


LOL

i had a hearty laugh and almost fell off the chair :rofl!!:

well here is a single liner


right to call one self Sikh belogs to the person. if a person believe he/she is...then they are!!!

no one needs a license from a brokerage house called SGPC( can't use the exact word i wanted to use)

i would find it improbable that people divorce over this issue. living together changes a lot.

however , people fail to accept that while getting into marriage, the frame of reference at "that" time drives person's choices and the must be respected.

i will explain this in a long post

so please bear

scenario:

an guy who keeps beard and wears turban, looking to get married

first of all, he does not restrict to hoping to meet women with his thought process. essential as marriage is union of souls and both must be on same wavelength

this would mean, looking out for women who keep uncut hair or believe in that

this is the first wrong step

i put this to - sccumbing to mass media, as jasleen said, they want girls with bollywood looks and all primmed up, but want to deny them their choice, which ofcourse would possibly in majority be different as they themselves donot keep uncut hair.


next, they feel bad that those girls donot like them

hmmm

how is this discrimination????

now donot blame this on bollywood, it is not for "exclusive sikhs"

accept it, its a hard truth

-----------

regarding fanaticism, i want you to go back and revisit words of Guru ji in SGGS on fanaticism
---------------:whisling:

 

[kds1980]

right to call one self Sikh belogs to the person. if a person believe he/she is...then they are!!

So if tommorow bin laden and george bush will start calling themselves sikhs would any
person with sound mind accept that statement,.Your this statement is no less than a big joke.

however , people fail to accept that while getting into marriage, the frame of reference at "that" time drives person's choices and the must be respected.

i will explain this in a long post

so please bear

scenario:

an guy who keeps beard and wears turban, looking to get married

first of all, he does not restrict to hoping to meet women with his thought process. essential as marriage is union of souls and both must be on same wavelength

this would mean, looking out for women who keep uncut hair or believe in that

this is the first wrong step

There is something in this world that is called ratio .many times it is pointed out by people that ratio is in favour of boys for keeping uncut hairs outside India . please tell the solution for imbalanced ratio.

regarding fanaticism, i want you to go back and revisit words of Guru ji in SGGS on fanaticism

since when you started preaching gurbani?

Jasleen wrote

i've seen some of the sites you read, you posted a blog before about a guy who, looking for a wife, flew to the US to meet a girl who cuts her hair and then was upset when she suggested he should trim his beard. it's total hypocrisy. maybe they're not saying, "i'm looking for a girl who waxes/threads/trims", but when it comes down to it, i will bet that most of them wouldn't want a girl with a mustache or thick eyebrows or whatever. i know there are a lot of gursikh girls out there... it's absurd to think that a gursikh girl would ask a guy to shave. if these guys looked for gursikh girls, looked for amritdhari girls, they wouldn't have such a problem.

I think you sahould read that blog again the person went to california
because his parents found a girl for him not because he is looking for bollywood beauties

i have a friend who was told repeatedly not to take amrit before marriage because "no one will want to marry you". what's up with that? where are all these so-called gursikh men if a girl is told that amrit will mess up her marriage prospects?

the way different jatha's are giving amrit and making their own maryada's then its become more and more difficuilt for amritdhari's to marry so its natural concern for parents.Its nearly impossible for amritdhari of One sect to marry another.Also is it not true that amritdhari's only have to marry amritdhari so more difficuilt for them to marry.

know a lot of girls who are told that if they wear a dastaar men won't want to marry them. where are these so-called gursikh guys then?

Well already have a good debate on dastaar At present I don't think that majority of sikhs are ready to accept dastar is mandatory for women so its obvious they will have difficuilty because Men can simply say that if in my family amritdhari women don't wear dastaar then why is she wearing.Even sewadarni's of gurudwara,sikh women holding posts in sgpc don't wear dastar.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<So if tommorow bin laden and george bush will start calling themselves sikhs would any
person with sound mind accept that statement,.Your this statement is no less than a big joke.>>>

LOL, too far stretched logic again. calling oneself sikh is declaration of one's beliefs

that is it. no one needs a license for it.

<<There is something in this world that is called ratio .many times it is pointed out by people that ratio is in favour of boys for keeping uncut hairs outside India . please tell the solution for imbalanced ratio.>>

i am just wondering if the problem itself is the solution


<<since when you started preaching gurbani?>>>

i never did and i donot think anyone should preach gurbani

i only recommended that you contemplate on words of SGGS before commenting that fanaticism is good.


<<I think you sahould read that blog again the person went to california
because his parents found a girl for him not because he is looking for bollywood beauties>>

can you please post the link?

<<the way different jatha's are giving amrit and making their own maryada's then its become more and more difficuilt for amritdhari's to marry so its natural concern for parents.Its nearly impossible for amritdhari of One sect to marry another.Also is it not true that amritdhari's only have to marry amritdhari so more difficuilt for them to marry.
>>

apologies for buttin into discussion i am not part of, but have you considered if "this" might be one of the causes?


<<Well already have a good debate on dastaar At present I don't think that majority of sikhs are ready to accept dastar is mandatory for women so its obvious they will have difficuilty because Men can simply say that if in my family amritdhari women don't wear dastaar then why is she wearing.Even sewadarni's of gurudwara,sikh women holding posts in sgpc don't wear dastar.>>>
same way girls who are exposed to the concept that cutting hair is ok find it normal to say that not having hair doesnot stop you from continuing on your spiritual path as sikh


or is it just a matter of time that not having turban will become mainstream for sikhs?

same way as it might have happened for women?

 

[kds1980]

LOL, too far stretched logic again. calling oneself sikh is declaration of one's beliefs

that is it. no one needs a license for it.

Not far logic just showing weakness in your logic

i am just wondering if the problem itself is the solution

please elaborate what you are saying

i never did and i donot think anyone should preach gurbani

i only recommended that you contemplate on words of SGGS before commenting that fanaticism is good.

why?

Here is the link

Finding a Wife

Now before posting the reply please read the entire blog and most IMPOrtanat parts is comments.it will take time so don't hurry

or is it just a matter of time that not having turban will become mainstream for sikhs?

same way as it might have happened for women?

Your logic is becoming quite poor there is no hardcore proof that all sikh women wore dastar only warrior singhnees wore it don't compare the importance of dastar of men with women

same way girls who are exposed to the concept that cutting hair is ok find it normal to say that not having hair doesnot stop you from continuing on your spiritual path as sikh

Plenty of times complaints are received that girls from keshdhari families are preferring clean shaven.Just read the entire blog and comments you will get an overview of sikhs from all over the world even from sikh women

Jasleen just want to say one thing to you that
there was time when indian society was not ready to send girls to school but still they they went and got educated then society did not prefer women working but still you will find plenty of working women.Now tell me how many Indian parents accept their daughters having boyfriends or going to club but still plenty of girls go

But when it comes to practising religion then 100 excuses are already by girls.If they really want to take amrit or wear dastar then no amount of pressure will work and if they don't then they will give hundred excuses

 

[Archived_Member_19]

i see only 9 comments

3 are from guys who seem to be in same boat

jasleen has one comment there

anne's comment was most apt


why go and meet someone ho doesnot share ideology


please understand that keeping hair is not = sikhi

maybe sikhism, but not sikhi

before calling the logic poor, please give me a HARDCORE proof that men should wear turban


<Plenty of times complaints are received that girls from keshdhari families are preferring clean shaven.Just read the entire blog and comments you will get an overview of sikhs from all over the world even from sikh women>>

maybe this shows that the logic used to say pagg = sikh, and sikh = pagg is weak


YouTube - What does it mean to be a Sikh?