Ramayana And Ram Avtar Sahib: Misunderstood By Brother Sumra

Discussion in 'Bachittar Natak' started by vijaydeep Singh, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh SPNer

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    Gurfateh
    (14/06/09)
    ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰੀਤਸਿੰਘਸਮਰਾ
    Dear Santokh Singh ji and other readers,
    Santokh Singh ji has asked the question “Where it is written that Ram committed suicide?”
    1) It is written right within the Ramayana in the seventh book of Ramayana called “Uttara Kanda”. Most of the translators do not go into details about it.
    Ram first forced his brother Lakshman to commit suicide by jumping into Saryu river and later Ram felt so depressed and frustrated from his life that he himself committed suicide with entire population of Ayodhya including animals.
    I am quoting directly from the translation of Ramayan :
    All the people of Ayodhya followed Ram with love and devotion. Even the animals followed him, the cows and goats and elephants, not to mention the monkeys and bears. The very stones on the streets of Ayodhya wept, for they could not follow him and the trees bent low and brushed his head while he passed. Every creature which could walk or roll or dance or totter, followed him. Sumantra was waiting at the banks of the river with the four red horses which he had freed from the chariot. Guha, the hunter king was also there. The whole pan came to the pellucid waters of the river Sarayu, which circled the land of Kosala like a silver girdle. Ram walked into the icy cold water accompanied by all the rest. The waters closed over their heads lit a benediction. The heavens opened and the celestials rained flower Brahma spoke, "0 gracious Vishnu. Be pleased to return to your celestial abode. Thou art the Soul of All - indestructible, immutable an eternal. Be pleased to give up this form of maya and resume your swaroopa”
    I am quoting from the English translation of well known Bengali civil servant, writer and historian who translated many books including Ramayana and Mahabharat and also served as the President of Indian National Congress in 1899; Romesh Chunder Dutt :
    The death of Rama and his brothers was in accordance with Hindu ideas of the death of the righteous. Lakshman died under somewhat peculiar circumstances. A messenger from heaven sought a secret conference with Rama, and Rama placed Lakshman at the gate, with strict injunctions that whoever intruded on the private conference should be slain. Lakshman himself had to disturb the conference by the solicitation of the celestial rishi Durvasa, who always appears on earth to create mischief. And true to the orders passed by Rama, he surrendered his life by penances, and went to heaven.
    In the fulness of time, Rama and his other brothers left Ayodhya, crossed the Sarayu, surrendered their mortal life, and entered heaven.”
    This can also be read online by clicking on the following link and going to the end of the page.
    The Ramayana and Mahabharata: Conclusion
    In the above it is clear that first Ram forced his younger brother Lakshman to commit suicide and then he himself committed suicide.
    By the way, Santokh Singh ji it is only a fictional story. No Ram ever existed, it is just like the stories and cartoon that children watch today like Superman, Spiderman, Tom and Jerry. You should not worry about such fictional characters. Govt. of India itself has declared that Ram never existed.
    Also Santokh Singh ji has quoted the line :
    ਰਾਮਕਥਾਜੁਗਜੁਗਅਟਲਸਭਕੋਊਭਾਖਤਨੇਤ॥
    ਸੁਰਗਬਾਸਰਘਬਰਕਰਾਸਗਰੀਪੁਰੀਸਮੇਤ॥
    ਜੋਇਹਕਥਾਸੁਨੈਅਰਗਾਵੈ॥
    ਦੂਖਪਾਪਤਿਹਨਿਕਟਆਵੈ॥
    The second line itself says that Ram went to heaven(committed suicide) with entire city.
    The next line in this ****** Kavita is
    “Bishan Bhagat kiye Phal hoyi, Aadh Bayadh Chhe sake naa koi”
    This line means that listening to this story will provide you the benefits of devotion of Vishnu or Vishnu Bhagti.
    I am quoting the English Translation of Dr. Jodh Singh of entire Paragraph:
    Rama’s story, recited daily by people, will live for ever. Thus Rama went to heaven along with the entire town.
    Thus concludes the chapter dealing with Rama’s departure to heaven along with the entire townsmen in Rama Avtar.
    Chaupai
    He who sings or hears this story, sufferings and sins will not come near him. The result of the devotion to Vishnu’s incarnation will be that no physical or mental ailment will ever affect him”(Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Dr. Jodh Singh and Dr. Dharam Singh, Vol II, page 271)
    Departure to heaven with entire town means committed suicide with entire town.
    Note : Before anyone objects about my calling it ****** Kavita, let me make it clear that I call it ****** Kavita not because of its contents. I call it ****** Kavita because it is written by group of ******s.
    Gurpreet Singh Sumra
    Brampton, Canada
    ?????? ???? ???? (Your view)

    So here we go

    ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ਕਿਤੇਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ
    Kite Krisan se koot kotai banaae|| Kite Raam se mettee ?aare upaae||
    Somewhere He hath created millions of the servants like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama.
    Line 14

    ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਮਾਂਝ ਹੂਏ ਸਮੈ ਆਪਨੀ ਆਪਨੀ ਅੰਤ ਮੂਏ ੨੭
    Mahaadoon kete prithoo maanjh hooe|| Samai aapanoo aapanoo ant mooe||27||
    Many Muhammads had been on the earth. They were born and then died in their own times. 27.

    ਜਿਤੇ ਅਉਲੀਆ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤਾ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤੇ
    Jite aulooaa anbooaa hoe boote|| Titio kaal jootaa n ate kaal joote||
    All the Prophets and saints of the past were conquered by Death (KAL), but none could conquer it (him).
    Line 2


    ਜਿਤੇਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਏ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਏ ੨੮
    Jite Raam se Krisan hue Bisan aae|| Titio kaal khaapio n ate kaal ghaae||28||
    All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28.
    Line 3
    (Vachitar Natak Sahib Chapter 1)
    ਰਸਾਵਲ ਛੰਦ
    Rasaaval Chhand||
    RASAAVAL STANZA
    Line 8


    ਜਿਤੇਰਾਮ ਹੂਏ ਸਭੈ ਅੰਤ ਮੂਏ
    Jite Raam hooe|| Sabhai ant mooe||
    All the Ramas who incarnated, ultimately passed away.
    Line 9


    ਜਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹ੍ਵੈਹੈਂ ਸਭੈ ਅੰਤ ਜੈਹੈਂ ੭੦
    Jite Krisan hvaihain|| Sabhai ant jaihain||70||
    All the Krishnas, who had incarnated, have all passed away.70.
    Line 10
    (Vachitar Natak Sahib Chapter 1)

    ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ
    Krisan au Bisan jape tuh(i) kotik Raam Rahoom bhaloo bidh(i) dhiaayo||
    Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims.
    Line 1


    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਬਚਾਯੋ
    Brahm japio ar(u) sanbh(u) thapio tih te tuh(i) ko kinhoon na bachaayo||
    Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.
    Line 2


    ਕੋਟ ਕਰੀ ਤਪਸਾ ਦਿਨ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਕੌਡੀ ਕੋ ਕਾਮ ਕਢਾਯੋ
    Kot karoo tapsaa din kotik kahoon na kau?oo ko kaam ka?haayo||
    Thou hast observed millions of austerities for millions of days, but thou couldst not be recompensed even for the value of a couldst not be recompensed even for the value of a cowrie.
    Line 3


    ਕਾਮਕੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਕਸੀਰੇ ਕੇ ਕਾਮ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਘਾਉ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਬਚਾਯੋ ੯੭
    Kaamak(u) mantra kasoore ke kaam na kaal ko ghaao kinhoon na bachaayo||97||
    The Mantra recited for fulfillment of worldly desires doth not even bring the least gain and none of such Mantras can’t save from the blow of KAL.97.
    Line 4
    (Vachitar Natak Sahib Chapter 1)

    ਕਈ ਕੋਟ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਈਰਾਮ ਬਾਰ ਬੁਹਾਰ ਕਈ ਮੱਛ ਕੱਛ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਵਲੋਕ ਦੁਆਰ ਬਿਸੇਖ ੧੧
    Kaikot Krishan avtaar|| KaiRaam baar buhaar|| Kaimachchh kachchh anek|| Avlok duaar bisekh||11||
    Many Krishna and Rama incarnation sweep His Door many Fish and Tortoise incarnations are seen standing at His special gate.11.
    Line 1


    ਕਈ ਸ਼ੁਕ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਸਪਤ ਦੇਖ ਕਈ ਦੱਤ ਗੋਰਖ ਭੇਖ ਕਈਰਾਮ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਰਸੂਲ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਮ ਕੋ ਕਬੂਲ ੧੨
    Kaishukra braspat dekh|| Kaidatt gorakh bhekh|| KaiRaam Krishan Rasool|| Bin(u) naam ko na kabool||12||
    There are many Shukras, Brahaspatis, Datts, Gorakhs, Rama Krishnas, Rasult ect, but none is acceptable at His gate wightout the remembrance of His Name.12.
    Line 2
    (Brahma Avtar(Up Avtar) Sahib,Chapter Commands to Brahma)

    There (weather) Shiv will come or Lord Krishna will come. Where Shri Kal(Wealth of time ie God) will take you tied. Weather Lord Rama after coming be helpful. Where son, mother, father, brother are not(existing )..85..
    (Charitropakhyan Sahib 266).

    So only a few examples given where in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, we have explicitly given that we are not to worship Lord Rama.

    Do further what is written in there just to inform that there is hardly any knowledge of Sikh or Hindu texts or their language, when it comes to our self acclaimed scholars like brother G S Sumra.

    Rather it will be proved that by two methods used by him being made visible that ideological leaning of our Brother is hardly towards Gurmat.

    • Partial truth and concealing the whole truth as done here is modus operandi of professional propagandists who could be on the pay role of some anti Sikh forces. Such sort of Propaganda is used by communists like SFI, MCC etc. in India. Since mid seventies such guys did made an alliance with ruling forces of India, who want to separate faith from politics. Sikhism has to move with faith in politics , so attempts are to finish it off, by the rulers.
    • Abusive language instead of answering to the facts is another mark of communists. By this they try to make the person trying to end their false propaganda, offended and let him go off the issue, be deviated from the real issue. As per the views of Mr Kala Afghana Ji, God could not be cruel as told in Japu Sahib vide. “Namo Nit Naryane Krur Karme” as God of Sikh is sweet talker “Mith Bolrha Ji”(Ang 784). As per this, who follows the God, one has to be like God only(Ang 1372). So by using foul language Bhai Sumra is not going as per Gurmat. God bless him for hurting our sentiments.

    First let us see if his understading the quotations from Ramayama(ie Valmiki Ramayana) are OK. And then we will see that there is great difference between that text and Ram Avtar Sahib onto the Tenth Master(In former rest is in brief but most details are given on war, so it is there to enthuses the spirit of war in the read and nothing else).

    So if we read Bala Kandam of Valmiki Ramayana, we go to Sarg 16. Readers can read it and will find that Lord Rama is told to be the Incarnation of demigod Vishnu, who is told be to given the attribute like all pervading (Verse 1) and indestructible/ spend able . Then whole story of that Demigod is told, which makes him primal super god in this text. Here other demigods tell him to take form to kill demon Ravana.

    While in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib we find. Vishnu along side other demigods, going to the God of Sikhs and from that God taking command to take birth.(Guru has also told by this, that in history also, it was only God of Sikhs who was supreme and will ever be supreme).

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ
    Ik Oankaar Waheguroo jikifatah||
    The Lord is One and the Victory is of the Lord.
    Line 6


    ਭਾਗ

    SECTION
    Line 7


    ਅਥ ਬੀਸਵਾਂ ਰਾਮਵਤਾਰ ਕਥਨੰ
    Ath beesvaan Raam avtaar kathanang||
    Now begins the description about Ram, the twentieth Incarnation:
    Line 8


    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaupaee||
    CHAUPAI
    Line 9


    ਅਬ ਮੈ ਕਹੋ ਰਾਮਵਤਾਰਾ ਜੈਸ ਜਗਤ ਮੋ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ
    Ab mai kaho Raam avtaaraa|| Jais jagat mo karaa pasaaraa||
    Now I describe the incarnation Ram; how he exhibited his performance in the world.
    Line 10


    ਬਹੁਤੁ ਕਾਲ ਬੀਤਤ ਭਯੋ ਜਬੈ ਅਸੁਰਨ ਬੰਸ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਭਯੋ ਤਬੈ
    Bahut9u) kaal bitat bhyo jabai|| Asuran bans pragat bhyo tabai||1||
    After a long time the family of demons raised its head again.1.
    Line 11


    ਅਸੁਰ ਲਗੇ ਬਹੁ ਕਰੈ ਬਿਖਾਧਾ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਤਿਨੈ ਤਨਕ ਮੈ ਸਾਧਾ
    Asur lage bahu karai bikhaadhaa|| Kinhoon na tinai tanak mai saadhaa||
    The demons began to perform vicious actions and no one could chastise them.
    Line 12


    ਸਕਲ ਦੇਵ ਇਕਠੇ ਤਬ ਭਏ ਛੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦ੍ਰ ਜਹ ਥੋ ਤਿਹ ਗਏ
    Sakal dev ikathe tab bhae|| Chhir samundra jah tho tih gae||2||
    The all the gods assembled and went to the milk-ocean.2.
    Line 13


    ਬਹੁ ਚਿਰ ਬਸਤ ਭਏ ਤਿਹ ਠਾਮਾ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਹਿਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਮਾ
    Bahu chir basat bhae tih thaamaa|| Bisan sahit Brahmaa jih naamaa||
    There they stayed foe a long time with Vishnu and Brahma.
    Line 14

    ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਹੀ ਦੁਖਤ ਪੁਕਾਰਤ ਕਾਨ ਪਰੀ ਕਲ ਕੇ ਧੁਨਿ ਆਰਤ
    Baar baar hidukhat pukaarat|| Kaan parikal ke dhun(i) aarat||3||
    They cried out in anguish many times and ultimately their consternation was heard by the Lord.3.

    Page 507, Line 1


    ਤੋਟਕ ਛੰਦ
    Totak Chhand||
    TOTAK STANZA

    Page 507, Line 2


    ਬਿਸਨਾਦਕ ਦੇਵ ਲੇਖ ਬਿਮਨੰ ਮ੍ਰਿਦ ਹਾਸ ਕਰੀ ਕਰ ਕਾਲ ਧੁਨੰ
    Bisanaadak dev lekh bimanang|| Mrid haas karikar kaal dhunang||
    When the Immanent Lord saw the air-vehicle of Vishnu and other gods, He raised a sound and smiled and addressed Vishnu-thus :

    Page 507, Line 3


    ਅਵਤਾਰ ਧਰੋ ਰਘੁਨਾਥ ਹਰੰ ਚਿਰ ਰਾਜ ਕਰੋ ਸੁਖ ਸੋ ਅਵਧੰ
    Avtaar dharo Raghunaath harang|| Chir raaj karo sukh so Avadhang||4||
    “Manifest yourself as Raghunath (Ram) and rule over Oudh for a long time.”4.

    Page 507, Line 4


    ਬਿਸਨੇਸ ਧੁਣੰ ਸੁਣ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮੁਖੰ ਅਬ ਸੁੱਧ ਚਲੀ ਰਘੁਬੰਸ ਕਥੰ
    Bisnes dhunang sun Barahm mukhang|| Ab suddh chaliRaghubans kathang||
    Vishnu heard this command from the mouth of the Lord (and did as ordered). Now begins the story of Raghu clan.

    Page 507, Line 5


    ਜੁ ਪੈ ਛੋਰ ਕਥਾ ਕਵਿ ਯਾਹ ਰਢੈ ਇਨ ਬਾਤਨ ਕੋ ਇਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢੈ
    Ju pai chhor kathaa dav(i) yaah ra?hai|| In baatan ko ik granth ba?hai||5||
    It the poet describe with all the nattation.5.

    Page 507, Line 6


    ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਕਹੀ ਥੋਰੀਐ ਬੀਨ ਕਥਾ ਬਲਿ ਤ੍ਵੈ ਉਪਜੀ ਬੁਧ ਮੱਧਿ ਜਥਾ
    Tih te kahithoreeai been kathaa|| Bal(i) tvai upjibudh maddh(i) jathaa||
    Therefore, O Lord ! I compose in brief this significant story according to the intellect given to me by thee.

    Page 507, Line 7


    ਜਹ ਭੂਲਿ ਭਈ ਹਮ ਤੇ ਲਹੀਯੋ ਸੁ ਕਬੋ ਤਹ ਅੱਛ੍ਰ ਬਨਾ ਕਹੀਯੋ
    Jah bhool(i) bhaiham te laheeyo|| Su kaho tah achchhra banaa kaheeyo||6||
    If there is any lapses on part, for that I am answerable, therefore, O Lord ! Grant me strength to compose this poem in appropriate language.6.

    Page 507, Line 8
    (These are the initial lines of Ram Avtar Sahib from Shri Dasham Granth Sahib).

    Then there some total contrast when we see the dialogue between Lord Parsuram Ji and Lord Ram Ji, which is nowhere to be found in any Hindu Text, where Brahmins are belittled.


    ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਘੁਨਾਥ ਕਮਾਨ ਲੇ ਹਾਥ ਕਹੌ ਰਿਸਕੈ ਕਿਹ ਪੈ ਸਰ ਤਾਨੇ ੧੪੯
    SriRaghunaath kamaan le haath kahau riskai kih pai sar taane||149||
    Getting hold of his bow in his hand, Ram said to Parashuram, “On whom you have stretched this arrow in anger?”149.

    Page 530, Line 1


    ਪਰਸ ਰਾਮ ਬਾਚ ਰਾਮ ਸੋ
    Paras Raam Baach Raam So||
    Speech of Parashuram addressed to Ram :

    Page 530, Line 2


    ਜੇਤਕ ਬੈਨ ਕਹੇ ਸੁ ਕਹੇ ਜੁ ਪੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਕਹੇ ਤੁ ਪੈ ਜੀਤ ਜੈਹੋ
    Jetak bain kahe su kahe ju pai pher(i) kahe tu pai jeet na jaiho||
    “O Ram ! whatever you have said, you have said and now if you say anything further, then you will not remain alive;

    Page 530, Line 3


    ਹਾਥਿ ਹਥਿਆਰ ਗਹੇ ਸੁ ਗਹੇ ਜੁ ਪੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਗਹੇ ਤੁ ਪੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਲੈਹੋ
    Haath(i) hathiaar gahe su gahe ju pai pher(i) gahe tu pai pher(i) na laiho||
    “The weapon that you had to wield, you have wielded and if you try to wield anything more, your effort will be of no avail.”

    Page 530, Line 4


    ਰਾਮ ਰਿਸੈ ਰਣ ਮੈ ਰਘੁਬੀਰ ਕਹੋ ਭਜਿਕੈ ਕਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਬਚੈਹੋ
    Raam risai ran mai Raghubeer kaho bhaj(i) kai kat praan bachaiho||
    Then getting furious Parashuram said to Ram, “Say, where will you run away now from war and how will you save your life?

    Page 530, Line 5


    ਤੋਰ ਸਰਾਸਨ ਸੰਕਰ ਕੋ ਹਰਿ ਸੀਅ ਚਲੇ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਨ ਪੈਹੋ ੧੫੦
    Tor saraasan Sankar ko har(i) Seea chale ghar(i) jaan na paiho||150||
    “O Ram ! breaking the bow of Shiva and now wedding Sita you will not be able to reach your home.”150.

    Page 530, Line 6


    ਰਾਮ ਬਾਚ ਪਰਸਰਾਮ ਸੋ
    Raam Baach Parasraam So||
    Speech of Ram addressed to Parashuram:

    Page 530, Line 7


    ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ
    Swaiyaa||
    SWAYYA

    Page 530, Line 8


    ਬੋਲ ਕਹੇ ਸੁ ਸਹੇ ਦਿਸ ਜੂ ਜੁ ਪੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਕਹੇ ਤੇ ਪੈ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਖ੍ਵੈਹੋ
    Bol kahe su sahe dij joo ju pai pher(i) kahe te pai praan khvaiho||
    “O Brahmin ! you have already said whatever you wanted to say and if you say anything more now, you will have to risk your life.

    Page 530, Line 9


    ਬੋਲਤ ਐਂਠ ਕਹਾ ਸਠ ਜਿਉ ਸਭ ਦਾਂਤ ਤੁਰਾਇ ਅਬੈ ਘਰਿ ਜੈਹੋ
    Bolat ainth kahaa sath jio sabh daant turaae abai ghar(i) jaiho||
    “O fool ! why do you speak with such pride, you will have to go now to your home after getting your teeth broken and after receiving good tharashin.

    Page 530, Line 10


    ਧੀਰ ਤਬੈ ਲਹਿਹੈ ਤੁਮ ਕੱਉ ਜਦ ਭੀਰ ਪਰੀ ਇਕ ਤੀਰ ਚਲੈਹੋ
    Dheer tabai lahehai tum kau jad bheer pariik teer chaliho||
    “I am seeing you with patience; if I consider it necessary, then I shall have to discharge only one arrow.

    Page 530, Line 11


    ਬਾਤ ਸੰਭਾਰ ਕਹੋ ਮੁਖਿ ਤੇ ਇਨ ਬਾਤਨ ਕੋ ਅਬ ਹੀ ਫਲਿ ਪੈਹੋ ੧੫੧
    Baat sanbhaar kaho mukh(i) te in baatan ko ab hiphal(i) paiho||151||
    “Therefore talk with restraint, otherwise you will receive the reward for such talk just now.”151.
    Balkandam Sarg,75 and 76 has story of Rama and Parsurama but in difference from here. There Rama takes power off from Parsurama and destroyed some lokas/ colonies or world created by Prarsurama in space. Then Rama is told to carry out worship of Parsurama. In these two Sargas one Sarg has story of Vishnu seemingly powerful to Shiva.

    So coming to last part as in this article given above.

    We do find that in Christianity we find Lord Jesus ascent to heaven with his mortal body. Same is the case with Prophet Mohammad (SWAS) , the last Prophet of Islam as per various Islamic ideologies, moving up to heaven via Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem(Also claimed by Jews and Christians) with his body.

    Some Sikhs claim same things with First Master and Tenth Master(and perhaps the Fifth Master). While in the case of Baba Atal Rai and Baba Gurditta Ji, Sikhs believe that both left their bodies as they were ordered to do so by their respective Guru Father as both have shown the miracle to bring dead back to life.

    Yes for a person with leftist mentality and no faith in spirituality such things are false. So not having faith in such things is mark of uniqueness for the Sikhs but these are not the Sikhs of Ten Forms of Baba Nanak or Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, they are Sikhs/followers of Karl Marx.

    While Ang 1165/1166 does talk of brining dead back to life by Akal off course. Everything is within the capability of God(Ang 962).

    So if Akal makes are person’s ego mind destroyed, and only universal mind of Akal ie energy manifesting self in all, working in brain, that person is dead while alive(Ang 33) or librated while alive(Ang 294).

    So if energy manifesting in the form of Human body, goes back to original source or primal source of energy ie God, that could be hypothecation of Going with body into Sachkhand(Sikh point of view see

    (੮੪੬-੧੭, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
    ਸੂਰਜ ਕਿਰਣਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਜਲ ਕਾ ਜਲੁ ਹੂਆ ਰਾਮ
    sooraj kiran milae jal kaa jal hooaa raam ||
    The rays of light merge with the sun, and water merges with water.
    17 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


    (੮੪੬-੧੭, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
    ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲੀ ਸੰਪੂਰਨੁ ਥੀਆ ਰਾਮ
    jothee joth ralee sanpooran thheeaa raam ||
    One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect.
    17 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


    (੮੪੬-੧੭, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਏਕੁ ਏਕੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ
    breham dheesai breham suneeai eaek eaek vakhaaneeai ||
    I see God, hear God, and speak of the One and only God.
    17 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


    (੮੪੬-੧੮, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
    ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ
    aatham pasaaraa karanehaaraa prabh binaa nehee jaaneeai ||
    The soul is the Creator of the expanse of creation. Without God, I know no other at all.
    18 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


    (੮੪੬-੧੮, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
    ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਭੁਗਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਕੀਆ
    aap karathaa aap bhugathaa aap kaaran keeaa ||
    He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer. He created the Creation.
    18 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev


    (੮੪੬-੧੯, ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ, )
    ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਈ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਆ
    binavanth naanak saeee jaanehi jinhee har ras peeaa ||4||2||
    Prays Nanak, they alone know this, who drink in the subtle essence of the Lord. ||4||2||
    19 Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev
    Ang 846), while going into space, with body, where some part of spirit of dead goes otherwise could do something with the level faith offor non Sikh faiths reaching their destination of salvation. It is the level of reaching those places by non Sikhs, while Sikhs go much advanced.

    So with this let us see weather Rama committed suicide as per Ramyana as Bhai Sumra tells from reading translation or did he compelled Laxmana to commit suicide. And what is there in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, and at last does Shri Dasham Granth Sahib tells to worship Rama at all ?

    So we see the Uttarkandam.
    Sarg 103. Here a demigod called “Kaal” comes in disguise of a Tapsavi/hermit doing strict meditation. Tells Laxmana, that he wants to meet Rama. He is taken to Rama. He makes Rama agree that anyone, who listen to their dialogue will be killed by Rama. Meanwhile Laxman is sent on the door as a gate keeper, not allowing anyone in.

    Sarg104. “kaal “ gives his identity (in verse 2, this “kaal” tells that he is killer of all and the son of Vishnu, we see that in the case of Sikhs, their God Kal, in fact creates Vishnu). Kaal tells Rama the message of Brahma, the demigod. Brahma gives a brief account of himself and his relation to Vishnu , other incarnation of Vishnu is told , purpose of incarnation of Rama is toldand then tells that time slated for the incarnation of Rama is over yet if you(Rama) want to stay here more you can stay.Rama decides to come back to the place where he came from.(Go back to Vishnu’s Areas).

    Sarg 104: outside the cabin of Rama, Laxman finds Sage Durvasa coming. He wants to meet Rama, Laxmana refuses, then sage threatens to curse the family al together. Laxmana goes to Rama and tells him of arrival of Durvasa. Rama says adieu to “kaal” and meets Durvasa, who wanted the food after fast. He is given the food.After sage is gone. Rama remembers his agreement to Kaal, that who so ever listens to their dialogue will be killed by Rama. He feels sorry for Laxman. As in sorrows thinks that all this will not remain.
    Sarg 106: here Rama is told to be sad while Laxmana tells him Rama to kill him. Rama being unhappy consult his priests and ministers. All had no reply. Sage Vashist gives his view. He says that he foresaw this great calamity, Thereafter he tells that to up keep the faith/dharma for the welfare of creation he should renounce Laxmana.

    Then as per verse 13, Lord Rama tells Laxman, that he renounces Laxmana. For Sadhu/ person in way of God, renouncing is same as killing. Laxmana’s eyes are filled with water. He moves away without visiting his house.

    On the bank(not in the) of the Saryu river, Laxman does Achman(it is washing some part of face, hand and other parts of body with saying some spells or Mantra). Then he folded his hand, put control on all senses and stopped the breath of life. With Yoga, Laxman stopped the breath and demigods, sages and fairies rained flowers on him. Laxmana disappeared with his body from the eyes of humans, At that point of time, he was taken to the heaven by king of demigods Indra. Seeing the fourth part of Vishnu Laxmana arrived , demigods became happy and all worshipped him.( Here we find that Laxman being taken to heaven with body is told about). So as there is no death mentioned, then how could there be suicide. As before Birth Laxman was Vishnu only and after birth he was Fourth Part. Had he died then he would not have been Laxman or Fourth Part, as he still is Laxman and not became Vishnu again that means that he did not die).

    Sarg 107: here After being unhappy for the departure of Laxmana, Rama decides himself to leave. He decides that his throne be given to Bharata, his another half brother. Bharata refuses the throne and tells that he loves Rama more then throne or heaven, he will also accompany Rama. And tells hims to send a messenger to fourth brother Shartughana and divide the empire between Luv and Kush with north and south respectively.The whole city of Rama wants to go with him. Rama divides his empire into two and gives one part each to his two sons, Lav and Kush. Send them to their respective capitals and sends a messenger to Shatrughnana.

    Sarg 108: Shatrughana knows this, he divides his state into two and gives it to his two sons. Comes to Rama and tells him that he would go with him. Bears, Monkeys and Demons come to Rama and tell him that they too want to accompany him. Sugreeve it allowed but Vibhishan and Hanuman are told to stay on earth former should worship Vishnu while later one is to spread devotion till doom, while Jamvant, Maind and Dvivid is told to stay till Kaliyuga is to come.(Story of Jambhvant and Dvivid is further told in Shrimad Bhagvat Purana Dasham Skandha/Tenth Shoulder Uttrardh/later half chapter 56 and 67 respectively. ).Chapter 17 of Balakandam has the details of various demigods getting incarnation as monkeys etc. to help Vishnu as Rama(while Hanuman and Jambvant are told already there and Maind and Dvivid are incarnation of doctor demigod ie Ashvini Kumars.).

    Sarg 109: here after rituals Rama moves to go to heaven. Demigods, demigoddess, spells, texts etc in human forms accompany him. His subjects, Monkeys, Bears, Demons all go with him. Insects, micro organism , ghosts etc of city also go with him.

    Sarg 110: here Rama goes to about 3 miles or 1.5 Yojana away from Aydhya. Look at west and saw Saryu River. There were inward sucking cycles everywhere in Sarya, after moving around, they come to a good place. There Brahma came with demigods and saints with millions of divine crafts. There was glory, raining of flower, playing of musical instrument. Rama started to move towards river Saryu with feet. Brahma welcomes Rama. He tells Rama to enter in his(Rama/Vishnu) world with form of element/with body or whichever form he wants. Either you merge with the form of four armed Vishnu or merge with sky like, eternal , unexpressed Brahm/ materialistic manifestation form. Other then Yog Maya, who is Sita ,who is your old power, no one could understand your truth. You are tension less, destruction less, without old age and beyond materialistic manifestation of God. As per verse 12 Lord Rama after hearing the Brahma, entered into Vaishnavite light with his body, accompanied by his brothers.

    Then demigods and other mythological creatures did sing glory of Rama. Ram then said to Brahma, about giving a proper lok/heavenly adobe to the group of people accompanying Rama. Rama praises his followers for their devotion. Brahma tells him of one such Lok called Santanak, where these will get place and each of the devotee of Rama, who dies remembering him will reach there. Some good thing about such lok is told by Brahma(note in Hindus, worshiper of Krishna go to Golok, of Vishnu to Baikunth, of Shiv to Shiv Lok, so here Lok for Rama worship is told).

    All monkeys reverted back to demigods they came out from, while Sugreev went back to sun block.

    After Brahma made an announcement of Santanak Lok, all people having tear of joys took a dip into Saryu, at Gopratar Ghat/bank of Saryu. On taking dip, they left their life and body and boarded the divine crafts. This happened to birds, animals, movable and non movable organism. Same happened to monkeys, bears and demons. Sending all people to Santanka Lok, Brahma along side demigods returned to their places.

    So this is what is there in Ramayana.

    Then what do we have in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.


    ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਜਾਨਕਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਸਿਖਾ ਭੀਤ ਭਏ ਰਾਵਣ ਕਹ ਲਿਖਾ ਜਬ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਤਿਹ ਆਨ ਨਿਹਾਰਾ ਕਛੁਕ ਕੋਪ ਇਮ ਬਚਨ ਉਚਾਰਾ ੮੪੪
    Eh divas Jaanakitriya sikhaa|| Bheet bhae Raavan kah likhaa|| Jab Raghubar tih aan nihaaraa|| Kachhuk kop im bachan uchaaraa||844||
    One day explaining to women, Sita drew the portrait of Ravana on the wall, when Ram saw this, he said somewhat angrily.844.

    Page 640, Line 6


    ਰਾਮ ਬਾਚ ਮਨ ਮੈ
    Raam baach man mai||
    Speed of Ram in his mind :

    Page 640, Line 7


    ਯਾ ਕੋ ਕਛੁ ਰਾਵਨ ਸੋ ਹੋਤਾ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਚਿਤ੍ਰਕੈ ਦੇਖਾ ਬਚਨ ਸੁਨਤ ਸੀਤਾ ਭਈ ਰੋਖਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੁਹਿ ਅਜਹੂੰ ਲਗਾਵਤ ਦੋਖਾ ੮੪੫
    Yaa ko kachh(u) Raavan ko hetaa|| Taa te chittra chitra-kai dekhaa|| Bachan sunat Seetaa bhairokhaa|| Prabh muh(i) aj-hoon lagaavat dokhaa||845||
    She (Sita) must have had some love for Ravana, that is the reason why she is looking at his portrait drawn by her; Sita became angry on hearing these words and said that even then Ram had been accusing her.845.

    Page 640, Line 8


    ਦੋਹਰਾ
    Dohraa||
    DOHRA

    Page 640, Line 9


    ਜਉ ਮੇਰੇ ਬਚ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਿ ਹ੍ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸਤ ਰਘੁਰਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਪੈਂਡ ਮੁਹਿ ਦੀਜੀਅਲੀਜੈ ਮੋਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ੮੪੬
    Jau mere bach karam kar(i) hridai basat Raghuraae|| Prithipain? muh(i) deejeeai leejai moh(i) milaae||846||
    “If Ram the king Raghu clan abides ever in my heart, in my speech and action then, O mother earth ! you give me some place and merge me in yourself.”846.

    Page 640, Line 10


    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaupaee||
    CHAUPAI

    Page 640, Line 11


    ਸੁਨਤ ਬਚਨ ਧਰਨੀ ਫਟ ਗਈ ਲੋਪ ਸੀਆ ਤਿਹ ਭੀਤਰ ਭਈ ਚੱਕ੍ਰਤ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਰਖ ਰਘੁਰਾਈ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਨ ਕੀ ਆਸ ਚੁਕਾਈ ੮੪੭
    Sunat bachan dharniphat gaee|| Lop Seeaa tih bheetar bhaee|| Chakkrat rahe nirakh Raghuraaee|| Raaj karan kiaas chukaaee||847||
    Hearing these words the earth tore asunder and Sita merged in it; seeing this Ram wondered and in this suffering he ended all hope of ruling.847.

    Page 640, Line 12


    ਦੋਹਰਾ
    Dohraa||
    DOHRA

    Page 640, Line 13


    ਇਹ ਜਗ ਧੂਅਰੋ ਧਉਲਹਰਿ ਕਿਹ ਕੇ ਆਯੋ ਕਾਮ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਸੀਅ ਨਾ ਜੀਐ ਸੀਅ ਬਿਨ ਜੀਐ ਰਾਮ ੮੪੮
    Eh jag dhooaro dhaulhar(i) kih ke aayo|| Raghubar bin(u) Seea naa jeeai Seea bin jeeai na Raam||848||
    This world is the palace of smoke which had been of no value to anyone; Sita could not live without Ram and it is impossible for Ram to remain alive without Sita.848.

    Page 640, Line 14

    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaupaee||
    CHAUPAI

    Page 641, Line 1


    ਦੁਆਰੇ ਕਹਯੋ ਬੈਠ ਲਛਮਨਾ ਪੈਠ ਕੋਊ ਪਾਵੈ ਜਨਾ ਅੰਤਹਿ ਪੁਰਹਿ ਆਪ ਪਗੁ ਧਾਰਾ ਦੋਹਿ ਛੋਰਿ ਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੋਕ ਸਿਧਾਰਾ ੮੪੯
    Duaare kahyo baith Lachhmanaa|| Paith na kooo paavai janaa|| Antah(i) purab(i) aap pag(u) dhaaraa|| Deh(i) chhor(i) mrit lok sidhaaraa||849||
    Ram said to Lakshman, “You sit on the gate and do not let anyone to come in.” Ram himself went into the palace and abandoning his body left this abode of death.849.

    Page 641, Line 2


    ਦੋਹਰਾ
    Dohraa||
    DOHRA

    Page 641, Line 3


    ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਮਤੀ ਹਿਤ ਅਜ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਤ ਜਿਮ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਤਜ ਲੀਅ ਜੋਗ ਤਿਮ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਤਨ ਕੋ ਤਜਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਜਾਨਕੀ ਬਿਯੋਗ ੮੫੦
    Indra Matihit aj nripat jim grih leea joh|| Tim Raghubar tan ko tajaa sriJaanakibiyog||850||
    The way in which the king Aja had accepted Yoga for Indumati and left his home, in the same manner, Ram abandoned his body on having been separated from Sita.850.

    Page 641, Line 4


    ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਰਾਮਵਤਾਰੇ ਸੀਤਾ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੋਕ ਸੇ ਗਏ ਧਿਆਇ ਸਮਾਪਤੰ
    It(i) SriBachitra Naatake aamavtaare Seetaa ke het mrit lok se gae dhiaae samaaptang||
    End of the chapter entitled ‘Forsaking the abode of Death for Sita’ in Ramavtar in BACHITTAR NATAK.

    Page 641, Line 5


    ਭਾਗ

    SECTION

    Page 641, Line 6


    ਅਥ ਤੀਨੋ ਭ੍ਰਾਤਾ ਤ੍ਰੀਅਨ ਸਹਿਤ ਮਰਬੋ ਕਥਨੰ
    Ath teeno bhraataa treean sahit marbo kathanang||
    The description of the Death of the Three Brothers alongwith their wives :

    Page 641, Line 7


    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaupaee||
    CHAUPAI

    Page 641, Line 8


    ਰਉਰ ਪਰੀ ਸਗਰੇ ਪੁਰ ਮਾਹੀ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਰਹੀ ਕਛੂ ਸੁਧ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਡੋਲਤ ਦੁਖਿਆਰੇ ਜਾਨੁਕ ਗਿਰੇ ਜੂਝਿ ਜੁਝਿਆਰੇ ੮੫੧
    Raur parisagre pur maahee|| Kaahoon rahikachhoo sudh naahee|| Nar naari?olat dukhiaare|| Jaanuk gire joojh(i) jujhiaare||851||
    There was great tumult in the whole city and none of the residents was in his senses; the men and women staggered like the warriors writhing after falling during fight in the battlefield.851.

    Page 641, Line 9


    ਸਗਰ ਨਗਰ ਮਹਿ ਪਰ ਗਈ ਰਉਰਾ ਬਯਾਕੁਲ ਗਿਰੇ ਹਸਤ ਅਰੁ ਘੋਰਾ ਨਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਮਨ ਰਹਤ ਉਦਾਸਾ ਕਹਾ ਰਾਮ ਕਰ ਗਏ ਤਮਾਸਾ ੮੫੨
    Sagar nagar maih par gairauraa|| Buaakul gire hast ar(u) ghoraa|| Nar naariman rahat udaasaa|| Kahaa Raam kar gae tamaasaa||852||
    There was uproar throughout the city and the elephants and horses also began to fall, being worried, what type of sport has been played by Ram? Thinking about this thing the men and women remained under depression.852.

    Page 641, Line 10


    ਭਰਥਊ ਜੋਗ ਸਾਧਨਾ ਸਾਜੀ ਜੋਗ ਅਗਨ ਤਨ ਤੇ ਉਪਰਾਜੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਰੰਧ੍ਰ ਝਟ ਦੈਕਰ ਫੋਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੌ ਚਲਤ ਅੰਗ ਨਹੀ ਮੋਰਾ ੮੫੩
    Bharthaoo jog saadhanaa saajee|| Jog agan tan te upraajee|| Brahrandhra jhat daikar phoraa|| Prabh sau chalat ang nahimoraa||853||
    Bharat also produced Yoga fire in his body by practising Yoga and with a jerk got his Brahmrandhra burst and definitely went towards Ram.853.

    Page 641, Line 11


    ਸਕਲ ਜੋਗ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ਬਿਧਾਨਾ ਲਛਮਨ ਤਜੇ ਤੈਸ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਨਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਰੰਧ੍ਰ ਲਵ ਅਰਿ ਫੁਨ ਫੂਟਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਚਰਨਨ ਤਰ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਨਿਖੂਟਾ ੮੫੪
    Sakal jog ke keee bidhaanaa|| Lachhman taje tais hipraanaa|| Brahmrandhra Lav Ar(i) phun phootaa|| Prabh chrnan tar praan nikhntaa||854||
    Lakshman alos did this, practicing all types of Yoga he gave up his life. Then the Brahmrandhra of Shatrughan also burst and he breathed his last to be at the feet of the Lord.854.

    Page 641, Line 12


    ਲਵ ਕੁਸ ਦੋਊ ਤਹਾਂ ਚਲ ਗਏ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਸੀਅਹਿ ਜਰਾਵਤ ਭਏ ਅਰ ਪਿਤ ਭ੍ਰਾਤ ਤਿਹੂੰ ਕਹ ਦਹਾ ਰਾਜ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਲਵ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਰਹਾ ੮੫੫
    Lav Kus dooo tahaan chal gae|| Rahghubar Seeah(i) jaraavat bhae|| Ar pit bhraat tihoon kah dahaa|| Raaj chhatra Lav ke sir rahaa||855||
    Lava and Kusha both came forward and performed the funeral rites of Ram and Sita; they also performed the funeral rites of the brothers of their father and in this way Lava assumed the royal canopy over his head.855.

    Page 641, Line 13


    ਤਿਹੂੰਅਨ ਕੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਤਿਹ ਆਈ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਤੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਸੁਰਗ ਸਿਧਾਈ ਲਵ ਸਿਰ ਧਰਾ ਰਾਜ ਕਾ ਸਾਜਾ ਤਿਹੂੰਅਨ ਤਿਹੂੰ ਕੁੰਟ ਕੀਅ ਰਾਜਾ ੮੫੬
    Tihoonan kiikstritih aaee|| Sang(i) saihvai surag sidhaaee|| Lav sir dharaa raaj kaa saajaa|| Tihoonan tihoon kunt keea raajaa||856||
    The wives of the three brothers came there and they also became Satis and left for the heavenly abode. Lava assumed the kingship and made the three (cousins) the kings of three directions.856.

    Page 641, Line 14


    ਉੱਤਰ ਦੇਸ ਆਪੁ ਕੁਸ ਲੀਆ ਭਰਥ ਪੁੱਤ੍ਰ ਕਹ ਪੂਰਬ ਦੀਆ ਦੱਛਨ ਦੀਅ ਲੱਛਨ ਕੇ ਬਾਲਾ ਪੱਛਮ ਸੱਤ੍ਰਘਨ ਸੁਤ ਬੈਠਾਲਾ ੮੫੭
    Uttar des aap(u) Kus leeaa|| Bharath puttra kah poorab deeaa|| Dahchhan deea Lachchhan ke baalaa|| Pachchham Sattraghan sut baithaalaa||857||
    Kusha himself ruled over the north, the son of Bharat was given the kingship of the south and the son of Shatrughan the kingship of the west.857.

    Page 642, Line 1


    ਦੋਹਰਾ
    Dohraa||
    DOHRA

    Page 642, Line 2


    ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ ਸੁਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ ੮੫੮
    Raam kathaa jug atal sabh koibhaakhat net|| Sug baas Raghubar karaa sagripurisamet||858||
    The story of Ram remain immortal throughout the ages and in this way Ram went to abide in heaven alongwith (all the resident of) the city.858.

    Page 642, Line 3


    ਇਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਭਿਰਾਤ ਤ੍ਰੀਅਨ ਸਹਿਤ ਸੁਰਗ ਗਏ ਅਥ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਹਿਤ ਸੁਰਗ ਗਏ
    It(i) Raam bhiraat treean sahit surag gae|| Ath sagripurisahit surag gae||
    End of the chapter entitled ‘Ram went to Heaven alongwith brothers and their wives; He went alongwith all the residents of the city’ in Ramavtar in BACHITTAR NATAK.

    Page 642, Line 4


    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaoopaee(i)||
    CHAUPAI

    Page 642, Line 5


    ਜੋ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੈ ਅਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਤਿਹ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਆਵੈ ਬਿਸਨ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੀ ਫਲ ਹੋਈ ਆਧਿ ਬਯਾਧਿ ਛ੍ਵੈ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਇ ੮੫੯
    Jo Eh kathaa sunai ar(u) gaavai|| Dookh paap tih nikattee na aavai|| Bisan bhagat(i) kie phal hoee|| aadh(i) byaadh(i) chhvai sakai na koe||859||
    He, who will listen to this story and sing it, he will be free from the sufferings and sins. The reward of the devotion to Vishnu (and his incarnation Ram) that no ailment of any kind will touch him.859.

    Page 642, Line 6


    ਸੰਮਤ ਸੱਤ੍ਰਹ ਸਹਸ ਪਚਾਵਨ ਹਾੜ ਵਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸੁਖ ਦਾਵਨ ਤ੍ਵ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ਭੂਲ ਪਰੀ ਲਹੁ ਲੇਹੁ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ੮੬੦
    Sanmat sattraaaaaah sahas pachaavan|| Haa? vadiprithmai such daavan|| Tva prasaadh kar(i) granth sudhaaraa|| Bhool parilauh lehu sudhaaraa||860||
    This Granth (book) has been complete (and improved) in Vadi first in the month of Asaarh in the year seventeen hundred and fifty-five; if there has remained any error in it, then kindly correct it.860.

    Page 642, Line 7


    ਦੋਹਰਾ
    Dohraa||
    DOHRA

    Page 642, Line 8


    ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਤੁੰਗ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਤਰ ਸਤਦ੍ਰੱਵ ਤੀਰ ਤਰੰਗ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਤ ਪੂਰਨ ਕੀਯੋ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਥਾ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ੮੬੧
    Netra tung ke charan tar satdrav teer tarang|| SriBhagvat pooran kio Raghubar kathaa prasang||961||
    The story of Raghuvir Ram was complete by the Grace of God on the bank of Sutlej in the valley of the mountain.861.

    Page 642, Line 9


    ਸਾਧ ਅਸਾਧ ਜਾਨੋ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਦ ਸੁਬਾਦ ਬਿਬਾਦਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਕਲ ਪੂਰਣ ਕੀਯੋ ਭਗਵਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ੮੬੨
    Saadh asaadh jaano nahibaad subaad bibaadh|| Granth sakal pooran keeyo Bhagvat kripaa prasaadh||862||
    The saint be not considered as unsaintly ever and the debate as controversial ever; this whole Granth (book) has been completed by the Grace of God.862.

    Page 642, Line 10


    ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ
    Sawaiyaa||
    SWAYYA

    Page 642, Line 11


    ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਮਾਨਯੋ
    Paane gahe jab te tumre tab te kooo aankh tare nahiaanyo|| Raam Rahnm Puraan Kuraan mat ek na maanyo||
    O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not ac

    Page 642, Line 12


    ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਜਾਨਯੋ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ੮੬੩
    Sinmrit(i) Saasta Bed sabhai bahu bhed kahai ham ek naa jaanyo|| Sriasipaan kripaa tumrikar(i) main a kahyo sabh tohe bakhaanyo||863||
    The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863.

    Page 642, Line 13


    ਦੋਹਰਾ
    Dohraa||
    DOHRA

    Page 642, Line 14


    ਸਗਲ ਦੁਆਰ ਕਉ ਛਾਡਿ ਕੈ ਗਹਯੋ ਤੁਹਾਰੋ ਦੁਆਰ ਬਾਂਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਅਸਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਦਾਸ ਤੁਹਾਰ ੮੬੪
    Sagal duaar kau chhaa?(i) kai gahyo tuhaaro duaar|| Banh(i) gahe kilaaj as(i) Gobind dees tuhaar||864||
    O Lord ! I have forsaken all other doors and have caught hold of only Thy door. O Lord ! Thou has caught hold of my arm; I, Govind, am Thy serf, kindly take (care of me and) protect my honour.864.

    Page 643, Line 1


    ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਾਇਣ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਬਸ ਸਤੁ
    It(i) SriRaamain samaaptam sat(u) subham sat(u)||
    BENIGN END OF THE RAMAYANA.

    Page 643, Line 2

    (Sarg 97 of Uttarkandam of Shrimadvalmeekiya Ramayana has different story of Sita going into earth and Chapter 99 talks of Rama ruling the empire after Sita going to earth)

    While here in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, Sita does not enter earth at the place of Rama doing Rajuya Yagna but at house of Rama after making a picture of Ravana, and in her separation Rama leaves his body by Yoga, then his three brothers including Laxmana leave their bodies. Then bodies of Rama, Sita and brothers of Ram are burnt and empire is divided between tow sons of Rama and Son of Bharat, Laxman and Shatrughana.(as we see that Sita also goes under earth, it appears that her body is exhumed and then cremated in this case, here death of Sita is being due to her vanishing in earth, that may mean falling in pit, while being disturbed after listening to Rama, having doubt upon her integrity.(Verse 844,845 RamAvtar Sahib )

    Likewise here subjects going along side Rama to Heaven does not mean that all went together. It may be understood that by this time all have gone to heaven or are no more.

    So let us talk about some lines which Brother Sumra has some problem.


    ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ ਸੁਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ ੮੫੮
    Raam kathaa jug atal sabh koibhaakhat net|| Sug baas Raghubar karaa sagripurisamet||858||
    The story of Ram remain immortal throughout the ages and in this way Ram went to abide in heaven alongwith (all the resident of) the city.858.

    Page 642, Line 3

    But first let us see who is Ram here when we talk of story of Rama?

    We have term Rama used for God as in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.


    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaupaee||
    CHAUPAI
    Line 4


    ਇਨ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸੁ ਦਸ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ
    In maih sristtee su das avtaaraa||
    In this creation is included the world and the ten incarnations;
    Line 5


    ਜਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਰਮਿਯਾਰਾਮਹਮਾਰਾ
    Jin maih ramiyaa Raam hamaaraa||
    Within them pervades our Lord;
    Line 6


    ਅਨਤ ਚਤੁਰਦਸ ਗਨ ਅਵਤਾਰੂ
    Anat chaturdas gan avtaaroo||
    Besides ten, other fourteen incarnations are also reckoned;
    Line 7


    ਕਹੋ ਜੁ ਤਿਨ ਤਿਨ ਕੀਏ ਅਖਾਰੂ
    Kaho ju tin tin keee akhaaroo||4||
    And I describe the performance of all them.4.
    Line 8
    (Chaubees Avtar Sahib)

    Then we have story of Ram being referred to story of pervading God in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


    (੯੭੦-੧੧, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, ਭਗਤਕਬੀਰਜੀ)
    ਜਾਨੀ ਜਾਨੀ ਰੇ ਰਾਜਾਰਾਮਕੀ ਕਹਾਨੀ
    jaanee jaanee rae raajaa raam kee kehaanee ||
    I have come to know the story of my Sovereign Lord.
    11 Raamkalee Saint Kabir
    (Ang 970)

    Also there is an instance in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, where we find that term Ram is used both for Lord Rama and all pervading God of Sikhs.

    Let us see Salok Mahla Nauvan.



    (੧੪੨੯-, ਸਲੋਕ, )
    ਰਾਮੁ ਗਇਓਰਾਵਨ ਗਇਓ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ
    raam gaeiou raavan gaeiou jaa ko bahu paravaar ||
    Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives.
    3 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur


    (੧੪੨੯-, ਸਲੋਕ, )
    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਕਛੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਜਿਉ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ੫੦
    kahu naanak thhir kashh nehee supanae jio sansaar ||50||
    Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream. ||50||
    3 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur
    (Ang 1429)

    Here term Ram is used for Lord Rama.

    While here we find


    (੧੪੨੮-੧੨, ਸਲੋਕ, )
    ਜਗਤੁ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ ਫਿਰਤੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮੁ
    jagath bhikhaaree firath hai sabh ko dhaathaa raam ||
    The world wanders around begging, but the Lord is the Giver of all.
    12 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur


    (੧੪੨੮-੧੨, ਸਲੋਕ, )
    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨ ਸਿਮਰੁ ਤਿਹ ਪੂਰਨ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਕਾਮ ੪੦
    kahu naanak man simar thih pooran hovehi kaam ||40||
    Says Nanak, meditate in remembrance on Him, and all your works will be successful. ||40||
    12 Salok Guru Teg Bahadur
    (Ang 1428)

    While here we find term Ram for all pervading God of Sikhs. Both are in same composition .

    So by the understanding of this way. It could be understood as
    ਰਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਜੁਗ ਜੁਗ ਅਟਲ ਸਭ ਕੋਈ ਭਾਖਤ ਨੇਤ

    Raam kathaa jug atal sabh koibhaakhat net||
    Story of all pervading lord is impeccable for age, all say this daily..

    ਸੁਗ ਬਾਸ ਰਘੁਬਰ ਕਰਾ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਮੇਤ ੮੫੮
    Sug baas Raghubar karaa sagripurisamet||858||
    Lord Rama did reside in heaven along side all the city..85..
    (this only means that mortal lord Rama is did and so is the city in which he lived, term Surag Vas is proverb used to portray death in Hindi Language).
    ਇਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਭਿਰਾਤ ਤ੍ਰੀਅਨ ਸਹਿਤ ਸੁਰਗ ਗਏ ਅਥ ਸਗਰੀ ਪੁਰੀ ਸਹਿਤ ਸੁਰਗ ਗਏ
    It(i) Raam bhiraat treean sahit surag gae|| Ath sagripurisahit surag gae||
    End of Rama’s brother went to heaven with their wives.. Start all city alongside went to heaven.
    (After the end to brothers of Rama going to heaven , we find all city alongside going to heaven, that means that rest of the city of Rama is also dead).

    So story of God of Sikhs is firm for ages while Lord Rama along his family and city are dead.



    ਜੋ ਇਹ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੈ ਅਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਤਿਹ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਆਵੈ ਬਿਸਨ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੀ ਫਲ ਹੋਈ ਆਧਿ ਬਯਾਧਿ ਛ੍ਵੈ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਇ ੮੫੯
    Jo Eh kathaa sunai ar(u) gaavai|| Dookh paap tih nikattee na aavai|| Bisan bhagat(i) kie phal hoee|| aadh(i) byaadh(i) chhvai sakai na koe||859||
    He, who will listen to this story and sing it, he will be free from the sufferings and sins. The reward of the devotion to God that no ailment of any kind will touch him.859.

    Page 642, Line 6

    As we see that term Term Bisan is used for Akal also in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    (੩੪੨-੧੦, ਗਉੜੀਪੂਰਬੀ, ਭਗਤਕਬੀਰਜੀ)
    ਬਿਸਨ ਸੰਮ੍ਹਾਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਹਾਰਿ
    bisan sanmhaar n aavai haar ||
    Dwelling upon the Lord, defeat shall not come to you.
    10 Gaurhee Poorbee Saint Kabir
    (Ang 342)

    While in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji we are told to not to worship Vishnu at all)



    ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਏ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਏ ੨੮
    Jite Raam se Krisan hue Bisan aae|| Titio kaal khaapio n ate kaal ghaae||28||
    All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28.
    Line 3
    (Chapter one Vachitar Natak Sahib)



    ਸੁ ਕੋਟ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਬਕਤ੍ਰਣੰ ਬਦੰਤ ਬੇਦ ਚਤ੍ਰਕੰ
    Su kot charka baktranang|| Badant Bed chatrakang||
    Millions of four-headed Brahmas; recite the four Vedas.
    Line 13


    ਅਸੰਭ ਅਸੰਭ ਮਾਨੀਐ ਕਰੋਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਠਾਨੀਐ ੨੪੧੦੨
    Asanbh asanbh maaneeai|| Karor Bisan thaaneeai||24||102||
    Millions of Shiva worship that Wonderful Entity; millions of Vishnus adore Him.24.102.
    Line 14
    (Gyan Prabodh Sahib, Chapter One)
    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaupaee||
    CHAUPAI

    Page 416, Line 12


    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਪਚਹਾਰੇ
    Brahmaadik sabh hipach-haare||
    Brahma and others have got tired in knowing Thy end;

    Page 416, Line 13


    ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਉਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ
    Bisan Mahesvar kaun bichaare||
    Who are the helpless gods Vishnu and Shiva?

    Page 416, Line 14

    ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਜਿਨ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ
    Chand soor jin kare bichaaraa||
    The sun and moon also meditate on Thee;

    Page 417, Line 1


    ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਨੀਯਤ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ੧੪
    Taa te janeeyat hai Kartaaraa||14||
    Therefore Thou art known as the Creator.14.

    Page 417, Line 2
    (Chaubees Avtar Sahib)

    Likewise there are verses in Krishna Avtar


    ਚੌਪਈ
    Chaupaee
    CHUPAI
    Line 4


    ਮੈ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ੪੩੪
    Mai na Ganeshah(i) pritham manaaoon|| Kishan Bishan kab-hoon nah dhiaaoon|| Kaan sune paihchaan na tin son|| Liv laagimoripag in son||434||
    I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Kal (the Immanent Brahman).434.
    Line 5


    ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ ਮਹਾ ਲੋਹ ਮੈਂ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਬਾਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਬਿਚਾਰ ੪੩੫
    Mahaakaal rakhvaar hamaaro|| Mahaa loh main kinkar thaaro|| Apnaa jaan karo rakhvaarr|| Baah(i) gahe kilaaj bichaar||435||
    The Supreme Kal (God) is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lort ! I am Thy slave; Protect me, considering me as Thy own and do me the honour of catching my arm.435.
    Line 6


    ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਮੁਝੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਰੀਐ ਚੁਨ ਚੁਨ ਸ਼ੱਤੁ ਹਮਾਰੇ ਮਰੀਐ ਦੇਗ ਤੇਗ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਦੋਊ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਖ ਆਪ ਮੁਹਿ ਅਉਰੁ ਦਲੈ ੪੩੬
    Apnaa jaan muje pratipareeai|| Chun chun shattru hamaare mareeai|| Deg teg jag mai dooo chalai|| Raakh aap muh(i) aur(u) ma dalai|| 436||
    Sustain me, considering me as Thy own and destroy my enemies, picking them up; O Lord with Thy Grace, let the free kitchen and Sword (for the protection of the lowly;) ever flourish through me and none should be able to kill me except You.436.
    Line 7
    (Krishna Avtar Sahib)
    Many Ramas and Krishnas. Many Brahmas, Shivas And Vishnus. Sun and moon , them who may think of them. On the door of Kal(Akal) fetch water..116..
    (Charitropakhyan Sahib 266, Verse 116)
    Dohra.. Who go to happen stone on the giving of curse by female demon. Calling that super/prime lord (Oh Brahmin!) you do not feel ashamed in mind..118..
    (Charitropakhyan Sahib 266, Verse 118)
    Story is given about Vishnu committing adultery with Tulsi, the wife of Jallandher demon, who was in fact the brother of Vishnu’s wife Laxmi. He was cursed to be stone called Saligram and he is worshipped with Tulsi(Basil leaves type of plant).


    (੧੧੭੦-੧੮, ਬਸੰਤੁਹਿੰਡੋਲ, )
    ਮਹਲਾ ਬਸੰਤੁ ਹਿੰਡੋਲ ਘਰੁ
    mehalaa 1 basanth hinddol ghar 2
    First Mehl, Basant Hindol, Second House:
    18 null null


    (੧੧੭੦-੧੯, ਬਸੰਤੁਹਿੰਡੋਲ, )
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
    18 null null


    (੧੧੭੦-੧੯, ਬਸੰਤੁਹਿੰਡੋਲ, )
    ਸਾਲ੍ਰਾਮ ਬਿਪ ਪੂਜਿ ਮਨਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਕ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤੁਲਸੀ ਮਾਲਾ
    saal graam bip pooj manaavahu sukirath thulasee maalaa ||
    O Brahmin, you worship and believe in your stone-god, and wear your ceremonial rosary beads.
    19 Basant Hindol Guru Nanak Dev


    (੧੧੭੦-੧੯, ਬਸੰਤੁਹਿੰਡੋਲ, )
    ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਬੇੜਾ ਬਾਂਧਹੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰਹੁ ਦਇਆਲਾ
    raam naam jap baerraa baandhhahu dhaeiaa karahu dhaeiaalaa ||1||
    Chant the Name of the Lord. Build your boat, and pray, \"\"O Merciful Lord, please be merciful to me.\"\"||1||
    19 Basant Hindol Guru Nanak Dev
    (Ang 1170)

    (in case some one gives first sentence only, then one can prove that Guru Granth Sahib Ji preaches the stone worship, only the next line tells that stone and basil worship is to meditate of pervading lord).

    So Vishnu issue is also sorted.

    Then we are told about place and time of this composition. And at last we are again told to not to worship any Puranic Rama.





    Page 642, Line 10


    ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ
    Sawaiyaa||
    SWAYYA

    Page 642, Line 11


    ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਮਾਨਯੋ
    Paane gahe jab te tumre tab te kooo aankh tare nahiaanyo|| Raam Rahnm Puraan Kuraan mat ek na maanyo||
    O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not ac

    Page 642, Line 12


    ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਜਾਨਯੋ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ੮੬੩
    Sinmrit(i) Saasta Bed sabhai bahu bhed kahai ham ek naa jaanyo|| Sriasipaan kripaa tumrikar(i) main a kahyo sabh tohe bakhaanyo||863||
    The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863.

    Page 642, Line 13


    ਦੋਹਰਾ
    Dohraa||
    DOHRA

    Page 642, Line 14


    ਸਗਲ ਦੁਆਰ ਕਉ ਛਾਡਿ ਕੈ ਗਹਯੋ ਤੁਹਾਰੋ ਦੁਆਰ ਬਾਂਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਅਸਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਦਾਸ ਤੁਹਾਰ ੮੬੪
    Sagal duaar kau chhaa?(i) kai gahyo tuhaaro duaar|| Banh(i) gahe kilaaj as(i) Gobind dees tuhaar||864||
    O Lord ! I have forsaken all other doors and have caught hold of only Thy door. O Lord ! Thou has caught hold of my arm; I, Govind, am Thy serf, kindly take (care of me and) protect my honour.864.

    Page 643, Line 1

    So Akal only knows that why this last verse was concealed by Brother Sumra. Now let us talk about concept of Kanjer Kavita.

    As per Mr. Sumra, it is the work of Kanjer, so it is called Kanjer Kavita. Who is Kanjer.

    In North India, there is a nomadic tribe, who is apostate from four Varnas so is Vratya out caste. Its profession is that its female folks are sex workers and male folks go for hunting.(North India’s dread poacher Sansar Chand is from this tribe). Know days they are resettled and do carry out household works and other professions.(Four Varnas of India only constitute about 28%, 14% twice born and rest Sudra, while majority of Indian do not come even in either of Four Varnas based upon an article in 1990, das read during Mandal Commission agitation) .

    Other name for Kanjers is Kunjars or Giharas. Their tribe goddess in Mata Maharani.

    The branch of Kanjer has same root, from which other Branches emerge like Bazigar, Bawariya, Sikiligar, Labana, Sansi, Paradhi, Sapera, Dhanuk etc. Incidentally gypsies prosecuted in Europe by Hitler for being non Aryan are from the same stalk. Tenth Master had love for these outcastes. While jatts like Maha Singh of Majha deserted Guru, Bhai Vachitar Singh(a Sikilgar) gave his life. There is an another instance where Barar Jatts wanted money from Tenth Master, as they were mercenaries and did a sort of trade unionism. From Sainsis did we had Maharaja Ranjeet Singh.

    So if a person due to having surname like Sumra(often in jatt) insults the out caste. Such person is neither Sikh nor even communist but a racial fascist.

    Such person should remember that in Kutch of Gujarat, unlike in Punjab, where landed farmers are deemed Vyshya and landless Jatts as Sudras, We have one outcaste nomads. They are called “Jatts”.

    So as per the saying of Gurbani, being with lowest of lowest(Ang 15).
    Das (vijaydeep Singh)will prefer to call one self as Kanjer then being called Sumra or Virk(to which ancestor of Das belong from paternal side).

    Had Mr Sumra being in India, he could have been prosecuted for using caste based statements. Likewise as often they claim that they will only talk from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, does such term Kanjer comes in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

    This is the biggest irony of Sanskritised Jatts who oppose Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, these Jatts have forgotten their actual place and thought them to mercantile Bhapas, who being from twice born are often away from rural folk urban poor, when they live in cities and do not mix up with poor. In such condition they find Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, unacceptable and vulgar. While Tenth Master spent his childhood with Bhai Jaita and Sangta, Comrades of his fathers were people like Lakhi Shah Banjara and Makkhan Shah Lubana.

    If these Sanskritized people mix up with Dalits (or other oppressed)like Tenth Master did. Shri Dasham Granth Sahib, will the manual to bring in the rule of oppressed. Be it Indian Dalit, be it African , Hispanic or native Latin American or aborigine of Australia.
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Gurpreet Singh Samra is not on this Forum to answer.
     
  4. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh SPNer

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    How Hard Is It To Talk About Dasam Granth?

    Gurfateh

    Well this could be taken to Brother Sumra on sikhmarg. and his reply could be pasted here. Or he could be called here to reply.

    Other than putting here, arrangements are being made to let brother get this and gives reply. anyway das will be great ful to the Sangat, if from here also this link could be sent to him.
     
  5. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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    But he has many friends who support him on this forum. They can call him here.
     
  6. Aman Singh

    Aman Singh Admin SPNer

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    Gurfateh Inder Singh ji and your undercover supporters, i fail to understand what do you mean by supporting someone. Let us enlist, what kind of accusation you have made again SPN members:

    1 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Kala Afgana; then
    2 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Sumra; then
    3 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Gyani Jarnail Singh;
    4 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Vaheguruseeker;
    5 You accuse SPN members for Supporting vijaydeep singh;
    6 You accuse SPN members for Supporting Flana & Timkana [​IMG];


    So, basically, you accuse everybody who does not adhere to your own way of thinking. It seems that the whole world has stopped evolving ever since you established a view point on a particular topic. This is very lame Inder Singh ji, very hypocritical of you.

    This diversity of views and acceptance of various view points is what SPN so unique. You have written 400 posts in this forum and out of these there is not even a single post, or i may put if quite mildly, you have miserably failed to to share what are your views on that given topic. All you have managed to done is cut and paste from internet and then;

    7 You even accused SPN members for infringing copyrights. If we make a case of copyright infringements then you would be culprit number one. [​IMG]
    8 And then, You accuse SPN administration for deleting most of rubbish you copy and paste from internet;

    Wow, this is turing out to be cronic case of something went wrong with someone else. i can go on adding to list but others may also add to this list of accusations Inder Singh ji has made at SPN forum.

    Are you not tired of accusing all and everybody day in day out. Get a chill pill Sir.

    Inder Singh ji and i must add, your undercover supporters like Singh ji from Canada, you have to learn that there can be multiple perspectives on the same topic and there are bound to some peoples personal views going to adhere with someone's else point of view. If is quite naive to go on accusing all and everybody. when you and your so called supporters have failed miserably to any kind of constructive discussion goin on. We disparately need to look beneath our own dirty collar sometimes.

    Please treat this message as my friendly advice, lest you again 9. accuse that nobody warned be before hand. If you think you can intimidate us by way threatening or other ways then you are mistaken my dear friends. Be informed that all the threats you make go on record at this forum and we can trace all of you to the PC in your living rooms. [​IMG]

    Enjoy this platform that SPN has given you to enrich your and others lives and evolve. Stop wasting your precious time accusing others when there so much dirt to be cleaned in house. [​IMG]

    Best Regards

    Aman Singh
     
    • Like Like x 5
  7. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Vijaydeep Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I have read you above veeery looooong essay: Ramayana and Ram Avtar Sahib: Misunderstood by Brother Sumra

    I do not want to waste the bandwidth of this great forum to copy and paste the whole article but I have a few questions which I hope you respond in lay man's terms. You do not have to Copy & Paste Gurbani to prove your point because it has not fulfilled the objective in the above essay as I see it.

    1. What is the point of this essay?

    2. What are you trying to prove with the essay?

    3. What does this essay have to do with anything about Sikh teachings given to us in SGGS- our ONLY GURU by Guru Gobind Singh?

    4. Who are you trying to prove wrong and right and for what reasons based on Gurmat Ideals of SGGS?

    5. What is your objective and goal by writing this long essay?

    6. How does it enhance my Sikhi ideals given to all of us in SGGS?

    7. What is the historical significance for the Sikhs in all this when no one is sure who wrote the DG, Ramayana and other books which are just mere speculations. But we all know who wrote SGGS?

    8. In other words, and, your point is?


    Tejwant Singh
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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    Aman ji

    Accusations have basis. Try to learn to entertain an opposing view point instead of clamping censorship. Your censorship policy is not going to shut our mouth.We will continue to oppose anti panthic views and distortions.

    Try to be factual. I never wrote that SPN is supporting Vijaydeep. Do not add things from your own side.

    It is not only singh but quite a few others who have spoken against the style of your functioning have written to me. I brought only singh to attention of your staff. but that does not mean otehrs have not left.

    Regards
     
  9. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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    How Hard Is It To Talk About Dasam Granth?

    Aman ji

    To threaten anybody is not my trait. I speak on the forum openly. You delete that. Nor i am hiding anywhere. I live in USA where we enjoy freedom of speech. I have given my location a number of times and even asked those to have liberty to see me as they live nearby. Your tracing to PC has no meaning.

    Moreover we also participate on otehr sites. be free to meet me if you ever come here. or i may travel to india sometime soon. I can meet you for exchange of views in your office itself.
     
  10. Aman Singh

    Aman Singh Admin SPNer

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    Ahaa! so you are a supporter of Vijaydeep Ji? Right?

    There are more 8500 members at SPN and so you would accuse all of them to be anti-panthic! Right? I am least bothered about who are your supporters etc.

    Its an irony that lack of agenda at SPN to few people like you looks like an agenda in itself... the only things that has been deleted from your cut and paste job is baseless personal attacks on fellow members, which are your only addition to the these posts and which have nothing to do with topic. As a matter of policy Any personal attacks, insults will be removed without notice. And proclaimed offenders will be encouraged to leave the network. :yes:

    You keep on bragging about Panthic views:
    Whose view are these?
    Where are these views written?
    Are they documented Sikh Dharma Views?
    Who and when wrote these views?
    If you could have managed to post even a single panthic views duly supported by any so called Panthic authorities then we would have surely like to keep them posted.

    And, one thing more you have to understand is that if a members express his views that does not mean it is engraved on wall and supported by SPN. This is very important to understand that these so called anti-Panthic views do exist and we need to create a kind of intellegence to tackle such views... SPN provides you this ground to nullify so called panthic views but all people like you can do is accuse baselessly, you are only exposing your own lack of competency nothing more. This has been the fate of Sikh philosophy lately. We have falied miserably to counter these so-called anti-panthic views.

    Rest later...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Inder ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    What you wrote below is a simple lie. You threatened me saying that you will come to Las Vegas and sort me out in the Gurdwara. You even lied about Las Vegas having only one Gurdwara. Then I posted the addresses of two Gurdwaras alongwith their phone numbers on purpose so you could get my phone number through them which you did and called me. And when I asked you which place in Punjab you were from, you got all angry.You showed how insecure you were there and then and nothing has changes so far.

    I am still waiting for you here. I told you to come with your dhoti and topi on and show your trueself. You never had the courage to do so. You have shown your true colors so far. Your threats mean nothing, it shows how low you can stoop to peddle your Hindu agenda.

    So STOP lying that "To threaten anybody is not my trait.." It is not for a Sikh to do that.

    Tejwant Singh



     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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    Where did i write that? Can you show me? I don't know vijayadeep singh.

    I did say that from my experience with three persons. I have dealt with them earlier.I do not take support of human beings. I have faith in and support of my Gurus.

    Manakh ki tek birtha sabh jaan

    ( Considerof human being as of no consequence)

    Sukhmani sahib

    I
    I have one agenda and that is i do not tolerate ninda of my guru sahiban. I do not care if someone
    slanders me.

    I have been attacked personally right from the beginning by a few memebers. They are in the habit of attacking person instead of subject. There is no caution to them. When i respond my post is deleted.
    You want me to bring to your attention?



    You have a declared policy of deleting any news from Panthic weekly and DD taksal websites.May i ask what is the reason for that.Are they not panthic and especially when they have sacrificed every time for panth.

    I understand that. But those people deleting the post are representing SPN. Those people blacklisting panthic sites represent SPN. Those people when caught making false statements and then deleting replies also represent SPN. you seem to be a fair minded person. I wish you take a little active part to combat vested interests on this site. I wish your site good.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin 1947-2014 (Archived) SPNer Supporter

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    How Hard Is It To Talk About Dasam Granth?


    Fateh ji

    Who is we?
    Inder ji are you admitting that you are working with a pack of forum busters with an extremist agenda. If Muslims were doing that what would you say? I see no difference between what you are trying to pull of in this forum and what X-members from extremist islamic sites have tried to pull of in the past.

    In plain language you are conducting a classic flame war. And in every case this flame war has been spread to other forums. This is our turn. Next time it will be another forum and another and another.

    Flaming is grounds for dismissal no matter what your agenda may be. NOT :welcome:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    • Like Like x 1
  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin 1947-2014 (Archived) SPNer Supporter

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    Please explain how a group of mortals in Freemont CA and parts of Canada finds the overweening pride to declare themselves the "panth"
     
  17. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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    It should not be we. it is always one and that is I. You can go on making accusations.

    I have no agneda. If bani of my Guru is slandered i will reply.That is the duty of every sikh.

    I may cite those as extrmists who spread hatred towards Bani of our gurus and thus hurt sentiments of followers.
     
  18. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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  19. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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    Please write clearly what you mean?
     
  20. kds1980

    kds1980 SPNer

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    Inder singh ji

    Please tell me if this is the way we keep fighting on several issue's then how could we acheive unity in Panth.Both pro and Anti Dasam granth supporter should understand that they can't convince each other.
    In all religions there are sects and many sects don't agree with each other but it does not mean that they fight with each other.so both side's should stop trying to convince whether Dasam granth is written by Guru gobind singh ji or it is not written by Guru gobind singh ji.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  21. Inder singh

    Inder singh

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    KDS1980 ji

    That is not the case.When Anti dasam granth people are asked to furnish a reference from sikh history that disputes Dasam granth , they are not able to do that.

    Apart from that they use foul language for dasam granth. Please keep in mind that sikhism has only one sect and there is no division yet. Akal takhat regulates religious issues of sikhs. Akal takhat recognises Dasam granth.The wise thing is that those who do not like that can form their own sect. We need not fight over this issue.
     

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