HA! the words "humane killing" is not an oxy{censored} ... its a veridical paradox :u):
If God didn't want us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
Promoting JHATKA
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HA! the words "humane killing" is not an oxy{censored} ... its a veridical paradox :u):
If God didn't want us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
Guys I am a moderator here and I feel like I have to make this point.
Jhatka is a very old nihung tradition. Jhatka is allowed according to the Akal Takhat rehat maryada. Although I can understand the feelings of some about the picture, denying jhatka is denying a part of Sikh heritage.
I remember a very similar situation to this one in the past. I also recall an important point made by a vegetarian Singh. He said he was saddened by some peoples reaction to images such as these because if Sikhs ever needed to go to war they would see infinitely worse than this. If their heart is trembling at a mere picture or video of jhatka taking place, would such people be able to hack grim realities we may have to face. Our ancestors had to endure watching other Sikhs being horrifically tortured in front of their face and showed composure. We should be able to do the same watching jhatka.
This is why I am not in favour of removing the image. The ultimate decision is not mine alone but I thought I would like to share my opinion with you all.
Personally I respect the opinion of both meat eating and vegetarian Sikhs but lets have a calm, level headed and realistic perspective on this.
Jhatka is a very old nihung tradition. Jhatka is allowed according to the Akal Takhat rehat maryada. Although I can understand the feelings of some about the picture, denying jhatka is denying a part of Sikh heritage.
I remember a very similar situation to this one in the past. I also recall an important point made by a vegetarian Singh. He said he was saddened by some peoples reaction to images such as these because if Sikhs ever needed to go to war they would see infinitely worse than this. If their heart is trembling at a mere picture or video of jhatka taking place, would such people be able to hack grim realities we may have to face. Our ancestors had to endure watching other Sikhs being horrifically tortured in front of their face and showed composure. We should be able to do the same watching jhatka.
This is why I am not in favour of removing the image. The ultimate decision is not mine alone but I thought I would like to share my opinion with you all.
Personally I respect the opinion of both meat eating and vegetarian Sikhs but lets have a calm, level headed and realistic perspective on this.
- Jun 7, 2006
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i am not sure if the real thing gets into the head of people who want to jump up and make it a veggie/ non veggie issue.
I rarely make a long post, but i think this topic and assertions being made here force my hand nee fingers.
so the rant starts...............
i or anyone else who objected never said anything about it hurting veggie sentiments...so please give it a break
It was Mr. Raj Khalsa who put it as veggie/ non veggie issue.
i pointed out the picture as "shocking", no where i mentioned my affiliations as sanatan sikh or namdhari or whatever that lead to me being labelled as vegetarian/sect follower...trust me i am none.
this is internet and as PK ji mentioned, this forum is accessed by people of all ages who come to seek more information about sikhism
for mods:
do you want to get this website filtered out because of "cruelty" violence filters that most of the home children security products put in?
i understand that it can be webpage specific, but filter sittings can be put to disallow any website with such content.
on one hand we talk about promoting sikhism with children and on other we want to show them these pictures?
this is a bit of....what to say....duality in action ?
back to sinister ji
you saw an animal being killed when u were 7, you yourself give a certificate of being normal to urself
this is a bit odd
or may i call that you might be an exception.
research has shown that child's mind is very creative and can transform the images it sees and mingle it with imagination to create any kind of make beleive scenarios.
whereas you came out unscathed from the incident, there are many cases of trauma in children from such sightings.
-------
to Dal veerji
i understand that Jhatka has historic significance, but a picture does not explain it. This picture was irrelevant to the topic and crude.
nor does seeing an animal being killed make one brave. it is akin to saying that watching porno makes one a great lover....does it?
please do not use the corollary of going to war with visiting a forum.
children who might be visiting this website will NOT go to war.
let them face this when their minds are ready for it.
finally,
i leave it to the moderators and above all, thoughtfulness of Mr. Raj Khalsa to THINK.
I rarely make a long post, but i think this topic and assertions being made here force my hand nee fingers.
so the rant starts...............
i or anyone else who objected never said anything about it hurting veggie sentiments...so please give it a break
It was Mr. Raj Khalsa who put it as veggie/ non veggie issue.
i pointed out the picture as "shocking", no where i mentioned my affiliations as sanatan sikh or namdhari or whatever that lead to me being labelled as vegetarian/sect follower...trust me i am none.
this is internet and as PK ji mentioned, this forum is accessed by people of all ages who come to seek more information about sikhism
for mods:
do you want to get this website filtered out because of "cruelty" violence filters that most of the home children security products put in?
i understand that it can be webpage specific, but filter sittings can be put to disallow any website with such content.
on one hand we talk about promoting sikhism with children and on other we want to show them these pictures?
this is a bit of....what to say....duality in action ?
back to sinister ji
you saw an animal being killed when u were 7, you yourself give a certificate of being normal to urself
this is a bit odd
or may i call that you might be an exception.
research has shown that child's mind is very creative and can transform the images it sees and mingle it with imagination to create any kind of make beleive scenarios.
whereas you came out unscathed from the incident, there are many cases of trauma in children from such sightings.
-------
to Dal veerji
i understand that Jhatka has historic significance, but a picture does not explain it. This picture was irrelevant to the topic and crude.
nor does seeing an animal being killed make one brave. it is akin to saying that watching porno makes one a great lover....does it?
please do not use the corollary of going to war with visiting a forum.
children who might be visiting this website will NOT go to war.
let them face this when their minds are ready for it.
finally,
i leave it to the moderators and above all, thoughtfulness of Mr. Raj Khalsa to THINK.
- Jun 7, 2006
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Verdical paradox?
how is this statement non-dual?
what is the apparent fallacy?
What is the truth?
Killing is not Humane and hence it is classified as oxy{censored}
how is this statement non-dual?
what is the apparent fallacy?
What is the truth?
Killing is not Humane and hence it is classified as oxy{censored}
Amar veer ji
I can see this is a very emotive issue for you.
I have to disagree and say the picture itself is directly related to the topic.
I don't understand your use of analogy between the use of porno and looking at the jhatka image. My point was about feint heartedness amongst Sikhs. Death is a reality around us. A young child will see meat around when they are at school and visiting a supermarket with their parents.
You do have a point about children you may become traumatised by the image. I think this boils down to upbringing and I know people who have been brought up on farms in the UK, where they become pretty much made aware of the deaths of livestock from a young age, turn out OK. Some parents may well follow a policy of heavily shielding children from such realities - some less so. Myself, I am against the sanitisation of the meat process and feel people SHOULD be exposed to the slaughter, so they can make a decision on the matter. Other wise they see no link between what has to go on and what they see on their plate.
Ultimately I'm not fussed about the image and will gladly accept any decision one way or another.
I can tell this may turn into another debacle with someone becoming inconsolably upset. We all have to live with views and perspectives that are not in agreement with our own folks. Lets keep it calm and open minded.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Das will give a Sakhi from Sau Sakhi.When Shameer was given a food already used by Guru,he though to take it to his family so that all will use.His maternal Uncle reminded him that he is peer(muslim holy men) worshipper so should not eat Jhatka.He did not eat and later when Guru asks him he became perhaps regretfull(das has only given a portion of the story).
Das will give a Sakhi from Sau Sakhi.When Shameer was given a food already used by Guru,he though to take it to his family so that all will use.His maternal Uncle reminded him that he is peer(muslim holy men) worshipper so should not eat Jhatka.He did not eat and later when Guru asks him he became perhaps regretfull(das has only given a portion of the story).
- Jun 7, 2006
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<<I don't understand your use of analogy between the use of porno and looking at the jhatka image. My point was about feint heartedness amongst Sikhs. Death is a reality around us. A young child will see meat around when they are at school and visiting a supermarket with their parents.
You do have a point about children you may become traumatised by the image. I think this boils down to upbringing and I know people who have been brought up on farms in the UK, where they become pretty much made aware of the deaths of livestock from a young age, turn out OK. Some parents may well follow a policy of heavily shielding children from such realities - some less so. Myself, I am against the sanitisation of the meat process and feel people SHOULD be exposed to the slaughter, so they can make a decision on the matter. Other wise they see no link between what has to go on and what they see on their plate. >>
Dal ji
showing violence is not a way to inculcate understanding of death and danger
same way as showing bloodbath in movies is not a way of educating children that what lies in battlefields
same way as showing porno is not a way of sex education and what happens in beds
same way as showing a goat being beheaded is not a way of showing how the food came to them
the point i am making is that there are ways to convey the message.
the method of using a picture to promote/dissuade jhatka is as absurd as the ones i mentioned below
---- don't worry, i am not the one to take it to my heart
You do have a point about children you may become traumatised by the image. I think this boils down to upbringing and I know people who have been brought up on farms in the UK, where they become pretty much made aware of the deaths of livestock from a young age, turn out OK. Some parents may well follow a policy of heavily shielding children from such realities - some less so. Myself, I am against the sanitisation of the meat process and feel people SHOULD be exposed to the slaughter, so they can make a decision on the matter. Other wise they see no link between what has to go on and what they see on their plate. >>
Dal ji
showing violence is not a way to inculcate understanding of death and danger
same way as showing bloodbath in movies is not a way of educating children that what lies in battlefields
same way as showing porno is not a way of sex education and what happens in beds
same way as showing a goat being beheaded is not a way of showing how the food came to them
the point i am making is that there are ways to convey the message.
the method of using a picture to promote/dissuade jhatka is as absurd as the ones i mentioned below
---- don't worry, i am not the one to take it to my heart
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Few more inputs.
1) in Areas where we have Halal only,we can kill animal bird ourselves.So if Bhai Raj visit Delhi again or das goes to Indore Das will teach him how to carry out Jhataka.
2)It is not to do with Nihungs only. other grups are SInghs of Deccan and Assam/Kablis/Iranis/Bhatras/Sikalkars/Labanas/Ranghretas.They have langer of Jhataka also.
3)If some one being a Sikh is afraid of seing animal being killed or not sharing the food with those amritdharis who eat meat.Das recomends them as per Nihung treditions to join Radha Swamis or Dera Sacha Sauda.
4)As per Bebeck in nihungs also taking meat is not encouraged,yet that is more to do with Dera Dars who do not work.For outcaste/tribals,who work as lot and are acutal sikhs since making of Khalsa PAnth.They need meat as food,to repair the broken muscle due to the heavy labour or for instant source of enregy.
5)If das accuses anti Dasham Granth Sahib guys are emblam bearer of Bhappaism as they could not understand the mental state of outcaste(which Tenth Master understood well as he had both Bhai Jaita and Sangta as his childhood play mates at Patna Sahib),ritualistic Jathas or Sants,totaly oblivious to living conditions of outcastes/poors talk of anti meat and other ritualism and that is best example of jattism(as being from the family jaats on paternal side das is aware that meat is big no in them due to thier being Vaisya).Such pagan thing is not acceptalbe.
LAstly Tenth Master said and is recorded in Sau Sakhi.Mam Sikh Mas Khai Dij Nahi.It is my Sikh who eats meat and Brahmins do not.(Das is ready to tell the whole stroy about this).
6)If some one does not eat meat,he/she has a full right to not to eat and propogate.But it is right for meat eater to keep his views also.
7) we can have fish and pork also packaged as both can never be halaled.
8)das found no prolbem to us non halal beef while he was in action.(There are three instance in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib,where sacrifce of cow or hunt is given).Only thing is that is we want to replace petrolium with animal dung fuel,then there could be reason to protect the cow.Yet for Sikhs not eating beef is not a religeous duty as such.
Few more inputs.
1) in Areas where we have Halal only,we can kill animal bird ourselves.So if Bhai Raj visit Delhi again or das goes to Indore Das will teach him how to carry out Jhataka.
2)It is not to do with Nihungs only. other grups are SInghs of Deccan and Assam/Kablis/Iranis/Bhatras/Sikalkars/Labanas/Ranghretas.They have langer of Jhataka also.
3)If some one being a Sikh is afraid of seing animal being killed or not sharing the food with those amritdharis who eat meat.Das recomends them as per Nihung treditions to join Radha Swamis or Dera Sacha Sauda.
4)As per Bebeck in nihungs also taking meat is not encouraged,yet that is more to do with Dera Dars who do not work.For outcaste/tribals,who work as lot and are acutal sikhs since making of Khalsa PAnth.They need meat as food,to repair the broken muscle due to the heavy labour or for instant source of enregy.
5)If das accuses anti Dasham Granth Sahib guys are emblam bearer of Bhappaism as they could not understand the mental state of outcaste(which Tenth Master understood well as he had both Bhai Jaita and Sangta as his childhood play mates at Patna Sahib),ritualistic Jathas or Sants,totaly oblivious to living conditions of outcastes/poors talk of anti meat and other ritualism and that is best example of jattism(as being from the family jaats on paternal side das is aware that meat is big no in them due to thier being Vaisya).Such pagan thing is not acceptalbe.
LAstly Tenth Master said and is recorded in Sau Sakhi.Mam Sikh Mas Khai Dij Nahi.It is my Sikh who eats meat and Brahmins do not.(Das is ready to tell the whole stroy about this).
6)If some one does not eat meat,he/she has a full right to not to eat and propogate.But it is right for meat eater to keep his views also.
7) we can have fish and pork also packaged as both can never be halaled.
8)das found no prolbem to us non halal beef while he was in action.(There are three instance in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib,where sacrifce of cow or hunt is given).Only thing is that is we want to replace petrolium with animal dung fuel,then there could be reason to protect the cow.Yet for Sikhs not eating beef is not a religeous duty as such.
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here's how i think parents should introduce meat to children:
li'l one - dad! what's that stuff on the shelves?
me- its called meat
li'l one - do people eat it?
me - yes they do, it is a very common food for a majority of people
li'l one - where does it come from?
me ( now li'l one is curious) - see, meat is actually a dead animal's body parts, the animal ws killed and these are its body parts
li'l one - so, animals like?
me - sheep, chicken, cows...
li'l one - how do they kill?
me - i promise to show it to you one day
now..
the kid hasbeen introduced to the concept. there is still no instant image of savagry and blood
when time is right, i would take li'l one to any beef/chicken processing center
show how it is cut and packed.
:whisling:
but i know, in days of youtube, the li'l one will forward me a cool video of a cow being killed
li'l one - dad! what's that stuff on the shelves?
me- its called meat
li'l one - do people eat it?
me - yes they do, it is a very common food for a majority of people
li'l one - where does it come from?
me ( now li'l one is curious) - see, meat is actually a dead animal's body parts, the animal ws killed and these are its body parts
li'l one - so, animals like?
me - sheep, chicken, cows...
li'l one - how do they kill?
me - i promise to show it to you one day
now..
the kid hasbeen introduced to the concept. there is still no instant image of savagry and blood
when time is right, i would take li'l one to any beef/chicken processing center
show how it is cut and packed.
:whisling:
but i know, in days of youtube, the li'l one will forward me a cool video of a cow being killed
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Bro,
We are the martial faith,when no one was allowed to eat animal killed by self and only Muslims were allowed to kill the animal.At that time we were given an oppertunity to see the blood bath and emulate the spirit of killer instinct.
So Ham to Jane Tool Tarhakari,Karad Hath Mai Kabhi Na PAkri.
As a Maar(Serpant),Nihung(Crocodiles)Singh(lion) we are the predators.On the top of the piramid.Less is number yet to rule.So we could teach our children since childhood how to kill the animal.WE do it in Nihungs and Treditional and outcaste communities.
We have specailists in Indian,US and UK troops goven traingin to survive on soup of the crow or rats or snakes.For killer instincts the dummy we shoot,we have artificial blood coming out of them.Or water melon is shot in some illegal traing of militia.So
Meat has nothing to do with brevery but with ruthlessness and cruckidness,which are more important in present day warfares.
Our eating meat makes us disticnt with native pagans of India as our eating is not govened by any days or any types.
<<I don't understand your use of analogy between the use of porno and looking at the jhatka image. My point was about feint heartedness amongst Sikhs. Death is a reality around us. A young child will see meat around when they are at school and visiting a supermarket with their parents.
You do have a point about children you may become traumatised by the image. I think this boils down to upbringing and I know people who have been brought up on farms in the UK, where they become pretty much made aware of the deaths of livestock from a young age, turn out OK. Some parents may well follow a policy of heavily shielding children from such realities - some less so. Myself, I am against the sanitisation of the meat process and feel people SHOULD be exposed to the slaughter, so they can make a decision on the matter. Other wise they see no link between what has to go on and what they see on their plate. >>
Dal ji
showing violence is not a way to inculcate understanding of death and danger
same way as showing bloodbath in movies is not a way of educating children that what lies in battlefields
same way as showing porno is not a way of sex education and what happens in beds
same way as showing a goat being beheaded is not a way of showing how the food came to them
the point i am making is that there are ways to convey the message.
the method of using a picture to promote/dissuade jhatka is as absurd as the ones i mentioned below
---- don't worry, i am not the one to take it to my heart
Bro,
We are the martial faith,when no one was allowed to eat animal killed by self and only Muslims were allowed to kill the animal.At that time we were given an oppertunity to see the blood bath and emulate the spirit of killer instinct.
So Ham to Jane Tool Tarhakari,Karad Hath Mai Kabhi Na PAkri.
As a Maar(Serpant),Nihung(Crocodiles)Singh(lion) we are the predators.On the top of the piramid.Less is number yet to rule.So we could teach our children since childhood how to kill the animal.WE do it in Nihungs and Treditional and outcaste communities.
We have specailists in Indian,US and UK troops goven traingin to survive on soup of the crow or rats or snakes.For killer instincts the dummy we shoot,we have artificial blood coming out of them.Or water melon is shot in some illegal traing of militia.So
Meat has nothing to do with brevery but with ruthlessness and cruckidness,which are more important in present day warfares.
Our eating meat makes us disticnt with native pagans of India as our eating is not govened by any days or any types.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
dead Animal is one which dies by age or ailment and killed animal are "killed" and not "dead" in Islam dead animal is not enacouaged to be eaten in normal circumstances.
Rattan Singh Bhangu quoting Guru writes Jhatka Kar Ke Bakra Khana Kuthe Murdar Nerh Na Jana.Murdar stands for dead animal and Nihungs ussulay do not eat them.
Javakan De Dill Chirhi Warge Na Banaye.
Bhai,
dead Animal is one which dies by age or ailment and killed animal are "killed" and not "dead" in Islam dead animal is not enacouaged to be eaten in normal circumstances.
Rattan Singh Bhangu quoting Guru writes Jhatka Kar Ke Bakra Khana Kuthe Murdar Nerh Na Jana.Murdar stands for dead animal and Nihungs ussulay do not eat them.
Javakan De Dill Chirhi Warge Na Banaye.
- Jun 7, 2006
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<<dead Animal is one which dies by age or ailment and killed animal are "killed" and not "dead" in Islam dead animal is not enacouaged to be eaten in normal circumstances.
Rattan Singh Bhangu quoting Guru writes Jhatka Kar Ke Bakra Khana Kuthe Murdar Nerh Na Jana.Murdar stands for dead animal and Nihungs ussulay do not eat them.
Javakan De Dill Chirhi Warge Na Banaye.>>
vijaydeep ji
what happens when something is killed?...it is called DEAD....pls look up dictionary for the meanings
LOL
pls gimme a break and stop throwing the stuff we have been listening to for quite long. If Rattan Singh Bhangu knew so much, why didn't he tell more abt something useful?
and your points about making kids heart like chiri dil !!
there are many links to people being beheaded, women being stoned and brains blown off at point blank..... please feel free to show them to your children and make the "sher" dil.
but my point is that this is a public webpage without any checks to whether a child is visiting it or not.
in current legal understanding, while showing such pictures on a website, a graphic content warning is mandatory.
i have tried to explain it in milder ways, but your illogical comments are forcing me to be more forthright.
i see it as a serious infringement of internet laws, depending on where the website is registered and hosted.
once again, it leave it to saner judgements
Rattan Singh Bhangu quoting Guru writes Jhatka Kar Ke Bakra Khana Kuthe Murdar Nerh Na Jana.Murdar stands for dead animal and Nihungs ussulay do not eat them.
Javakan De Dill Chirhi Warge Na Banaye.>>
vijaydeep ji
what happens when something is killed?...it is called DEAD....pls look up dictionary for the meanings
LOL
pls gimme a break and stop throwing the stuff we have been listening to for quite long. If Rattan Singh Bhangu knew so much, why didn't he tell more abt something useful?
and your points about making kids heart like chiri dil !!
there are many links to people being beheaded, women being stoned and brains blown off at point blank..... please feel free to show them to your children and make the "sher" dil.
but my point is that this is a public webpage without any checks to whether a child is visiting it or not.
in current legal understanding, while showing such pictures on a website, a graphic content warning is mandatory.
i have tried to explain it in milder ways, but your illogical comments are forcing me to be more forthright.
i see it as a serious infringement of internet laws, depending on where the website is registered and hosted.
once again, it leave it to saner judgements
Amar
I think you should open your eyes to the good old US of A.This is EXACTLY what they use to create macho canon fodder. That is why you have so many Rambos and Commandos running around.
Amar, strangely the other day my seven year old nephew was at the gurdwara and was looking at the pictures on the wall. If you've grown up Sikh you may know that we have pictures of shaheeds going through the most horrendous torture openly visible where kids can clearly see them. Personally if anything is going to traumatise the kids I would have thought it would be the images of Singhs getting their heads scraped off, hacked limb by limb and broken on wheels. Not to mention babies getting speared etc. I know these things were never hidden from me when young. So I would say the goat beheading is relatively tame compared to that.
I think you should open your eyes to the good old US of A.This is EXACTLY what they use to create macho canon fodder. That is why you have so many Rambos and Commandos running around.
Amar, strangely the other day my seven year old nephew was at the gurdwara and was looking at the pictures on the wall. If you've grown up Sikh you may know that we have pictures of shaheeds going through the most horrendous torture openly visible where kids can clearly see them. Personally if anything is going to traumatise the kids I would have thought it would be the images of Singhs getting their heads scraped off, hacked limb by limb and broken on wheels. Not to mention babies getting speared etc. I know these things were never hidden from me when young. So I would say the goat beheading is relatively tame compared to that.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
Akal made Human better then Animal equating human with animal may not work well in us by the way adlof hitler was veggi.
Bhangu has writtan great lot of good things,but we must know Braj dialect to be writtan in Gurmukhi script say how Five beloved Sikhs made Dehdhari Guru Gulaba Khatri eat a humble pie.
Shaheedi of great Singhs during the period of Misls das does not think as useless.
Coming back to the term dead ie murde in Farsi,Mrit in Sanskrit and killed Kushte shud in Farsi and Hat/hatahat in Sanskrit.So das thinks that origional texts of us are not in English.Then further term Pal Hat Khaye Na Turk Ka(Bhai Daya Singh Rahit Nammah).
Das does not want brave Sikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Babber or Sant Jarnail Singh Ji of Bhindran,at present we need mercyless and ruthless and cunning Sikhs.Present days wars are not won by bravery but by mind.
Akal Bless.
Akal made Human better then Animal equating human with animal may not work well in us by the way adlof hitler was veggi.
Bhangu has writtan great lot of good things,but we must know Braj dialect to be writtan in Gurmukhi script say how Five beloved Sikhs made Dehdhari Guru Gulaba Khatri eat a humble pie.
Shaheedi of great Singhs during the period of Misls das does not think as useless.
Coming back to the term dead ie murde in Farsi,Mrit in Sanskrit and killed Kushte shud in Farsi and Hat/hatahat in Sanskrit.So das thinks that origional texts of us are not in English.Then further term Pal Hat Khaye Na Turk Ka(Bhai Daya Singh Rahit Nammah).
Das does not want brave Sikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Babber or Sant Jarnail Singh Ji of Bhindran,at present we need mercyless and ruthless and cunning Sikhs.Present days wars are not won by bravery but by mind.
Akal Bless.
Veer Ji,
we are NOT concerned with...what words are said/not said....how "loudly"/silently..mumbled/clearly pronounced/said in arabic or urdu or punjabi...etc etc etc etc... what the Sikh Rehat Maryada BANS..is "HALLAL"..mussalmani treekeh naal baniiaah hoya maas - RITUALISED slaughtered meat that is "halal" for Muslims and Kosher for Jews..and "Sanctified" for HINDUS..(dewi maa de charna te charriah hoya maas/parshaad)...YES RIGHT..ALL "RITUALISED" meat is NOT for US.
That is as clear as clear can be.
I have heard people telling me...Gyani ji..the "words" were actually not said...as by a person..BUT coming out of Speakers/sound system cd player...tape..etc....or the person didnt know..so he was just mumbling...not clearly saying..couldnt be heard...blah blah blah.....SO WHAT ?? Are we instructed to "judge" whether the butcher is a practising muslim..whjether he really knows the kalma..whetehr he is just mumbling..wahtever...in MALAYSIA...the killing chain is SO FAST....the butchers actually hold records like say..12000 chickens per hour..or even 30,000 chickens per hour...they just SLIT slit slit slit....as the chickens spin along on a fast belt...hanging upside down in front of the butcher....while the "kalmas" are from speakers on the walls...but all this is acepted as hallal by everyone....and stamped "hallal" by the authorities... Muslim butchers are sent to Australian slaughterhouses to do the same thing to cows sheep etc....so that beef/lamb from australia cna be stamped "hallal" !!!.....since it is the LAW..many chinese butchers just employ any "muslim"..be it Bngaldeshi/Indonesian etc to kill chickens so that they dont run foul of the "hallal law...i have personally seen many of these have no time to "read" anything...working conditions are so bad...they just slit throats as fast as they can...and throw the still struggling chicken into the drum machine to boiling water to remove the feathers etc......so "technically" speaking...its all ???? but who cares ?? Its simply impossible to actually follow all the procedures....i know it they know it..everyone knows it...
As for "Sikhs"....I seen every one "knows" that we cannot eat "BEEF" (supposedly) and any so called Sikh will recoil with horror if anyone says they ate beefburger...HOW CAN YOU..arent you a SIKH ??? BUT they happily consume chicken burgers even though these are certified HALLAL !!! The SRM clealry mentions Hallal..BUT NOT "BEEF"..yet 110% "sikhs" apparently know and avoid beef..BUT not hallal ??? Who taught them beef is banned for SIKHS ?? saadhs..sants..gyanis..who ?? SRM..Damadmai taksaal maryada ??
These "Sikhs"....same also happily Consume ALCOHOL and Six Packs...by the DOZENS....even though the SRM gain CLEARLY BANNS ALCOHOL/DRUGS.....and no saadh/sant/etc ever talks about Alcohol....it will affect their "goluck" collections !!!
SADLY.."religion" as we know it is no more....its all based on ones personal preferences..and people will justify....find excuses...( 100 and one)..etc etc..every one draws the line wherever he/she wants to....the GURU's LINE no longer exists for MOST.
Gyani JS:ice:
I remember a very similar situation to this one in the past. I also recall an important point made by a vegetarian Singh. He said he was saddened by some peoples reaction to images such as these because if Sikhs ever needed to go to war they would see infinitely worse than this. If their heart is trembling at a mere picture or video of jhatka taking place, would such people be able to hack grim realities we may have to face.( quote dalkhalsa)
Dalkhalsa ji
With all due respect, I have to say that it is sad to read your views because, instead of reading all, you just picked up one part" to remove" and came with new assumption" if we needed to go to war...." there is one word there where I posted a request, that is" children" If you believe, showing children jhatka event, can make them warrior, you have no inkling" what is child psychology is, don't think, my comment is harsh but that is what your comments come down to. I think snister ji defended picture in better way even better than who posted it. Killing an animal doesn't make you brave, same guys who kill goats when face a lion, even being far away their trembling of legs doesnt stop. Give better reason at least please.
Sikh jhatka Heritage! I just can smile on this word! I would refrain from commenting on it because it can get ugly.
"but my point is that this is a public webpage without any checks to whether a child is visiting it or not."( quote amarsangheraJi)
Think about it sher dil guys!!!!!!!
To MOD, as suggested by amar ji, MOD should come up with certain warnings for the children at least.
Dalkhalsa ji
With all due respect, I have to say that it is sad to read your views because, instead of reading all, you just picked up one part" to remove" and came with new assumption" if we needed to go to war...." there is one word there where I posted a request, that is" children" If you believe, showing children jhatka event, can make them warrior, you have no inkling" what is child psychology is, don't think, my comment is harsh but that is what your comments come down to. I think snister ji defended picture in better way even better than who posted it. Killing an animal doesn't make you brave, same guys who kill goats when face a lion, even being far away their trembling of legs doesnt stop. Give better reason at least please.
Sikh jhatka Heritage! I just can smile on this word! I would refrain from commenting on it because it can get ugly.
"but my point is that this is a public webpage without any checks to whether a child is visiting it or not."( quote amarsangheraJi)
Think about it sher dil guys!!!!!!!
To MOD, as suggested by amar ji, MOD should come up with certain warnings for the children at least.
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<<Amar, strangely the other day my seven year old nephew was at the gurdwara and was looking at the pictures on the wall. If you've grown up Sikh you may know that we have pictures of shaheeds going through the most horrendous torture openly visible where kids can clearly see them. Personally if anything is going to traumatise the kids I would have thought it would be the images of Singhs getting their heads scraped off, hacked limb by limb and broken on wheels. Not to mention babies getting speared etc. I know these things were never hidden from me when young. So I would say the goat beheading is relatively tame compared to that.>>
Dal veerji
thankfully for me, i never saw those picture where i grew up. :happy:
and i wouldn't get my children to see those pictures till they are ready for it.
Good luck to you.
<<Akal made Human better then Animal equating human with animal may not work well in us by the way adlof hitler was veggi.>>
what makes you think so?
Please read SGGS carefully. All are God's creation and stop mixing the Biblical thoughts of God made Man and the world for Man to enjoy
This never was a point of being a veggie or not...i don't understand why you equate my posts with vegetarianism...i am almost on the point of banging my head on the keyboard !!!:inca:
<<Coming back to the term dead ie murde in Farsi,Mrit in Sanskrit and killed Kushte shud in Farsi and Hat/hatahat in Sanskrit.So das thinks that origional texts of us are not in English.Then further term Pal Hat Khaye Na Turk Ka(Bhai Daya Singh Rahit Nammah).>>
you still don't get it do you?
Being DEAD is an end state, being killed by external force or internal decomposure are processes.
language does not change what i said. what is DEAD is DEAD. Please don't expect me to write sanskrit on english/punjabi forum.
and frankly from my side, i don't read rehitnamas
<<Das does not want brave Sikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Babber or Sant Jarnail Singh Ji of Bhindran,at present we need mercyless and ruthless and cunning Sikhs.Present days wars are not won by bravery but by mind.>>>
merciless, ruthless and cunning...well that sounds like Adolf Hitler to me.
We don't need wars or any of the "brave" men you mentioned.
We just need to give "love" a chance.
Dal veerji
thankfully for me, i never saw those picture where i grew up. :happy:
and i wouldn't get my children to see those pictures till they are ready for it.
Good luck to you.
<<Akal made Human better then Animal equating human with animal may not work well in us by the way adlof hitler was veggi.>>
what makes you think so?
Please read SGGS carefully. All are God's creation and stop mixing the Biblical thoughts of God made Man and the world for Man to enjoy
This never was a point of being a veggie or not...i don't understand why you equate my posts with vegetarianism...i am almost on the point of banging my head on the keyboard !!!:inca:
<<Coming back to the term dead ie murde in Farsi,Mrit in Sanskrit and killed Kushte shud in Farsi and Hat/hatahat in Sanskrit.So das thinks that origional texts of us are not in English.Then further term Pal Hat Khaye Na Turk Ka(Bhai Daya Singh Rahit Nammah).>>
you still don't get it do you?
Being DEAD is an end state, being killed by external force or internal decomposure are processes.
language does not change what i said. what is DEAD is DEAD. Please don't expect me to write sanskrit on english/punjabi forum.
and frankly from my side, i don't read rehitnamas
<<Das does not want brave Sikhs like Bhai Fauja Singh Ji Babber or Sant Jarnail Singh Ji of Bhindran,at present we need mercyless and ruthless and cunning Sikhs.Present days wars are not won by bravery but by mind.>>>
merciless, ruthless and cunning...well that sounds like Adolf Hitler to me.
We don't need wars or any of the "brave" men you mentioned.
We just need to give "love" a chance.
Killing for humane reasons exists, therefore the process of killing can also be humane…which is why it is a veridical paradox and not an oxy{censored}.
The very fact that the level of suffering can be measured on scale is proof that the concept of humane killing exists…which is why it is not an oxy{censored} but a veridical paradox.
Learn the linguistics
HA! Godwin’s Law wins DAY!
For arguments sake, you really are acting beyond the realm of rationality and leaning towards borderline Hippie. If anything merciless, ruthless and cunning sound like Darwinian properties to me.
When people speak in the context of love being a higher emotional state than the other emotions, I die a little inside.
You cannot learn to love without learning to hate! (vice-versa)
Thus, You cannot have peace without fight (passive or agressive resistance) (another veridical paradox)
At your local gurudawara, i bet you see swords and other shastars (if not the other elaborate and sub-par works of arts that depict violence)...how would explain these to your children?...should these be banned as well? should we tear down all the statues at Mehtiana Sahib, because it might offend the children? (i was young when i visited this gurudawara...and children enjoy it the most).
Violence is a reality...that parents have to put up with
children should not be on the internet anyways without proper supervision.
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<<Killing for humane reasons exists, therefore the process of killing can also be humane>>
can't believe that you state that end objective decides the nature of the process
Process is as important as the end
please do not give bookish insights
wonderful logic!!!
<<HA! Godwin’s Law wins DAY!
For arguments sake, you really are acting beyond the realm of rationality and leaning towards borderline Hippie >>
you need a weed bro
relax and come down from the academic pedestral
read who brought in hitler...it was contextual
<<When people speak in the context of love being a higher emotional state than the other emotions, I die a little inside.
You cannot learn to love without learning to hate! (vice-versa)
Thus, You cannot have peace without fight (passive or agressive resistance) (another veridical paradox)>>
accepting the exsitence of opposite doesnot alter the desired state...
<<At your local gurudawara i bet you see swords and other shastars (if not the other elaborate and sub-par works of art)...how would explain these to your children...should these banned as well? should we tear down all the statues at Mehtiana Sahib, because it might offend the children? (i was young when i visited this gurudawara...and children enjoy it the most).
Violence is a reality...the sooner children learn that...the more sane and careful they are.>>
Gurudwara.. LOL
i do't want to answer why you enjoyed it or why i never enjoyed it...we are different...
if violence is reality, non violence is also a reality.
can't believe that you state that end objective decides the nature of the process
Process is as important as the end
please do not give bookish insights
wonderful logic!!!
<<HA! Godwin’s Law wins DAY!
For arguments sake, you really are acting beyond the realm of rationality and leaning towards borderline Hippie >>
you need a weed bro
relax and come down from the academic pedestral
read who brought in hitler...it was contextual
<<When people speak in the context of love being a higher emotional state than the other emotions, I die a little inside.
You cannot learn to love without learning to hate! (vice-versa)
Thus, You cannot have peace without fight (passive or agressive resistance) (another veridical paradox)>>
accepting the exsitence of opposite doesnot alter the desired state...
<<At your local gurudawara i bet you see swords and other shastars (if not the other elaborate and sub-par works of art)...how would explain these to your children...should these banned as well? should we tear down all the statues at Mehtiana Sahib, because it might offend the children? (i was young when i visited this gurudawara...and children enjoy it the most).
Violence is a reality...the sooner children learn that...the more sane and careful they are.>>
Gurudwara.. LOL
i do't want to answer why you enjoyed it or why i never enjoyed it...we are different...
if violence is reality, non violence is also a reality.
<<Killing for humane reasons exists, therefore the process of killing can also be humane>>
can't believe that you state that end objective decides the nature of the process
Process is as important as the end
please do not give bookish insights
wonderful logic!!!
OH, how convinient, a selective debate, you left out my second proof that Humane treatment exists on a gradient! (it was the punchline)...a retort should be a complete one...dont get sloppy on me.
you need a weed bro
actually i ran out of my stash this morning :{;o:...im quite comfortable on my academic pedestal...i think ill stay up here a little longer.
hmmm ... think about that...desired states love to change
thats where you are wrong...you just like to pretend you are different. :wink:
and now we are so off topic that the picture doesnt even matter to you anymore...my objective is completed! (If I am not mistaken I think you must be experiencing a change in desire?)
if violence is reality, non violence is also a reality.
now you're getting it...the state of violence cannot exist without non-violence and the sate of non-violence is meaningless without a state of violence. YING and the YANG
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