Grammer / Vyakarn - Prof Maninderpal Singh Of Gurmat Gyan Missionary College On Gurbani Grammar | Sikh Philosophy Network
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Grammer / Vyakarn Prof Maninderpal Singh Of Gurmat Gyan Missionary College On Gurbani Grammar

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Grammer / Vyakarn Prof Maninderpal Singh Of Gurmat Gyan Missionary College On Gurbani Grammar

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Gyani ji,
Gurbani is larhivar. How would one know where is silent aunkar and where is the aunkar you pronounce?

Bhagat Ji,
I would say listen to Prof Maninderpal singh ji...he explains it all in very simple Punajbi...its difficult to explain in writing...maybe later I will try and get the written examples translated..but for now I also am still listneing to the videos and learning myself.. ( an example from English would be the K in KNIFE...its silent but visible..in GURBANI there are many INVISIBLE..but pronounced..many VISIBLE..but not pronounced...its all INTERNAL EVIDENCE based Grammar.
 
Aug 29, 2010
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You will learn so much it will change the way you look at WORDS which you thought are all the same....GUR-SIKH comes in so many different ways with different meanings..you will Never again say GURSIKH is just a Guru ka Sikh and is the same word..its NOT !!
If one looks at th rule as
they are Grammar Markers....Singular+Male Nouns have Aunkarrs..Plural/Female Nouns DONT have Aunkarrs !! etc etc etc..listen carefully

Then the word GURSIKH is Female /PLURAL Noun
How this can be taken to mean as GuRu Ka Sikh

then what should be the meaning of the word GURSIKHu (with matra of Aukad under Kh) which is SINULAR -Male NOUN word.?

Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Apr 25, 2006
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Prakash ji,
He said Gur is a masculine singular. So would be written as Gur(u) but this is not grammatically correctly when we want to say Gur ka Sikh. Gur(u) ka Sikh is wrong. The correct is Gur Ka Sikh, in short Gursikh.

He illustrates his point with this tuk:
ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸਦਿਅਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥

He says the this is not talking about Puran's Katha rather katha of God. Because Puran has Aunkad. He also said this isn't talking about Keso Gopal the Pandit.

But Puran, a noun, with Aunkad is a Masculine Singular without a preposition in the verse. It says "Katha of Hari", not "Katha of Puran". The verse says "Katha of Hari i.e. Puran Jio".

So the translation reads in two ways:
1. Call Keso Gopal, the Pandit, to read the tales of Hari, the Puran Jio.
OR
2. Call the Pandits (the worshippers) of the long-haired Gopal, the Cow Herder, to read the tales of Hari, the Puran Jio.

Apparently there was such a person as Keso Gopal. Also Keso Gopal never appears in Guru Granth Sahib as a name of Hari. So #1 is more accurate.

Did I miss something in his way of translating?
 
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Aug 29, 2010
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Prakash ji,
He said Gur is a masculine singular. So would be written as Gur(u) but this is not grammatically correctly when we want to say Gur ka Sikh. Gur(u) ka Sikh is wrong. The correct is Gur Ka Sikh, in short Gursikh.

He illustrates his point with this tuk:
ਕੇਸੋ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਸਦਿਅਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ਜੀਉ ॥

He says the this is not talking about Puran's Katha rather katha of God. Because Puran has Aunkad. He also said this isn't talking about Keso Gopal the Pandit.

But Puran, a noun, with Aunkad is a Masculine Singular without a preposition in the verse. It says "Katha of Hari", not "Katha of Puran". The verse says "Katha of Hari i.e. Puran Jio".

So the translation reads in two ways:
1. Call Keso Gopal, the Pandit, to read the tales of Hari, the Puran Jio.
OR
2. Call the Pandits (the worshippers) of the long-haired Gopal, the Cow Herder, to read the tales of Hari, the Puran Jio.

Apparently there was such a person as Keso Gopal. Also Keso Gopal never appears in Guru Granth Sahib as a name of Hari. So #1 is more accurate.

Did I miss something in his way of translating?
Bhagat Singh Ji,

Pl refer to the point being mentioned by your goodself as
He said Gur is a masculine singular

No. He says that the word Pricipally the word GuR is PLURAL Female Gender as the word is withour Aukad.
He is assuming this GuR as GuRu as Masculine Gender.So he says GuR as GuRu

My understanding is if the word GuR is Plural Female Gender why it should be given the meaning accordingly.? What should be need for making assuption for this wors as to be understood as GuRu Masculine Gender?

One should rather understand that any word is Either Singular or PLural Number irrespective of the Gender then one can get better and true understanding of the meanings of Gurbanee words.

One should make the understanding of Gurbanee Gender free then get the
meanings accordingly.There is great difference in the complete nessage on account of such understanding.

Prakash.s.Bagga
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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let alone Gurbani..PUNJABI langauge itslef is NOT "Gender free"...Chah is PEETEE and DUDH is PEETAH....lassee peetee..dhanih KHADHA....roti Khadhee..Ladoo KHADHA !!! barfee khadhee, jalebi khadhee..golgappa KHADHA..samosa Khadaha..Pizza Khadah..Tmatar khadha, alloo khadha..moolee KHADHEE !!! Gajar khadhee..ganna chuupiah, dhudh chunghiah..GAAN CUNGHEE !! Maajh Chunghee... GENDER is so INGRAINED in our Langauge and culture..we cannot take it out...GUTT Keetee JOORRAH KEETAH settles it..when BOTH are KESH !!! why the Gender difference ?? IN English both would say..I made my joorrah and I made my gutt.

PURAKH is Singular Male..how to make this Gender free ??
 
Aug 29, 2010
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let alone Gurbani..PUNJABI langauge itslef is NOT "Gender free"...Chah is PEETEE and DUDH is PEETAH....lassee peetee..dhanih KHADHA....roti Khadhee..Ladoo KHADHA !!! barfee khadhee, jalebi khadhee..golgappa KHADHA..samosa Khadaha..Pizza Khadah..Tmatar khadha, alloo khadha..moolee KHADHEE !!! Gajar khadhee..ganna chuupiah, dhudh chunghiah..GAAN CUNGHEE !! Maajh Chunghee... GENDER is so INGRAINED in our Langauge and culture..we cannot take it out...GUTT Keetee JOORRAH KEETAH settles it..when BOTH are KESH !!! why the Gender difference ?? IN English both would say..I made my joorrah and I made my gutt.

PURAKH is Singular Male..how to make this Gender free ??
GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
Pl get me your answer to this as

If the word PURAKH is SINGULAR MALE then what is its PLURAL MALE word?

Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Aug 29, 2010
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I would suggest listening to ALL 16 videos..making notes and THEN discussing...
I have listened to all .But still there is confusion in the application of this gender cocept to the understanding of Noun words.

As per gender consideration the word Gur is stated to be Plural/Female Gender as the word GuR is without Aukad under its last letter R

Prakash.s.Bagga
 
Apr 25, 2006
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Gur is Masculine Singular, not feminine, just like Purakh is masculine singular and not feminine. That's all I have to say.

Both Gur and Purakh refer to the same thing wouldn't you say so Prakash ji?

I think words should be considered to be masculine singular by default. Like Nirbhau, Nirvair. These are masculine singular. Chaturbhuj is also masculine singular. Oamkar is also masculine singular. (all without aunkad)

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰ ਅਥਾਹ ਅਤੋਲੇ ॥
ਮੰਨੈ ਤਰੈ ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ
No Aunkad on Niravair, and there is an aunkad on Gur. Does this change the meaning? I don't think so but then again I am new to this kind of grammar, that is, IF it exists.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Maneeh treh..TAREH GURU Sikh...
I take it as..

IF (one) Manneh (beleives)..he is liberated....
The one who TAREH..does/assists in the Liberation is the GURU and the one Liberated is the SIKH...thus GUR SIKH is TWO WORDS and NOT ONE !! becasue its SEPARATED and the Marker that shows this is the AUNKADD under R of GUR.( IN Larivaar sroops )
 
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From gurbanee grammar one learns that any Noun word with a Matra of Aukad under its last letter is SINGULAR and the same word without matra of Aukad is PLURAL be it
Masculine and or Feminine Gender.

Like the word ਗੁਰੁ is SINGULAR for MASCULINE and/or Feminine Gender. And the word ਗੁਰ GuR ( without Aukad under its letter R) is PLURAL as Masculline and or Feminine Gender

One can look for the classification of words in the chart form in the Gurbanee Grammar Book by Prof Sahib Singh ji or any other similar book.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 
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Apr 25, 2006
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Gyani ji,
That makes sense.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖੁ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਹਾਟੈ ॥

Gur is never with an Aunkad when it is written in this form.

Prakash ji,

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰ ਅਥਾਹ ਅਤੋਲੇ ॥
So this translates to "One God is without fear, and multiple Gods are without enmity, unfathomable in depth and immeasurable"?

What would these translate to?

ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ /ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖੁ -
ਗੁਰਸਿਖ -
ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ -
 
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Aug 29, 2010
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Gyani ji,
That makes sense.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖੁ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਹਾਟੈ ॥

Gur is never with an Aunkad when it is written in this form.

Prakash ji,

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰ ਅਥਾਹ ਅਤੋਲੇ ॥
So this translates to "One God is without fear, and multiple Gods are without enmity, unfathomable in depth and immeasurable"?

What would these translate to?

ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ /ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖੁ -
ਗੁਰਸਿਖ -
ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ -

ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ........Teaching of GuR or Single Person as Sikh
of GuR

ਗੁਰਸਿਖ -.......Teachings of GuR or Many persons as
Sikh of GuR

ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ -...... Teachings of GuRu(Prabhu)NAAMu

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖੁ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਹਾਟੈ ॥

Gur is never with an Aunkad when it is written in this form.
Yes this is true.But this is so because of immediate next word being as Proposition.Here the word GuR is
to be considered as GuRu for interpretation.
This is an exception to the general Rule Singular/Plural
consideration of the words.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 
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