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Polygamy And Sikhism

Saheb Singh

SPNer
Dec 8, 2004
6
0
46
If a man is allowed to marry more then once ,does it not applies for women.
I personaly feel wat i require for myself must be for wife as well.I being not even dust feet of guru ji cannot except my selffishness of having more then one wife and no more husband for my wife.I assume u all their wont except too if u realy beleive and practice sikhi in its real essence of equal rites reserved for men and women.
If yes then how can u think GURU'S WOULD HAVE DONE SO!!!!!!!!!!!
Pologamy or having life partner more then one person into spiritual life has no meanings.
Can anybody out there coud love another women(as life partner) having one earlier?????????
Even soni - mahiwal,heer -ranja never crossed their ethical and faithful boundaries.Coz love is eternal but lust is changable.
Thus guru insisitng to control lust and even is erased at fourth lav ,cannot and never went opposite.
Thus one claiming gurus polygamy must first think can they go beyond such deeds if practicing real sikh spirituality.I assume they wont .
Polygamy is lust in its real essence
wbr
 
May 26, 2005
56
1
58
San Francisco
My apologies, I can't let this one pass:

> Also biologically speaking women can carry
>disease in there genital area more easly COMPARED
>to men.. so the spead of a virus is MORE liken to
>happen when a female takes on a polygamy life style

I work in STI (sexually transmitted infections) research and women's health. Scientifically speaking, this is ABSOLUTELY wrong. In terms of male/female sex, the rate of STI infection is about equal between the two groups, and the biggest reasons being that it usually takes longer to find STI symptoms in women, and because sperm can carry a large amount of virus. It is far easier to catch HIV from a man, for instance, than it is to catch it from a woman.

As to polygamy, my 2 cents:

We're dealing here with the complexities of history, culture and the economic reality of women all over the world. Outside of which gender can give birth, you truly cannot make blanket statements about "women are this way" or "men are that way" and be 100% correct for all women or all men. Of course there are significant biological differences, but these differences appear as *statistical differences between large groups*.

Whether or not Guru Gobindji had multiple wives isn't really a problem from my point of view. It was a very common practice in that day and time, advantageous for both men and women in some ways, disadvantageous in others. Given that women at this time had little access to economic independence, being married to someone who could provide for them and their offspring was essential, and having more than one wife helped with the load of taking care of the household and children. There are some interesting variations on this-- in modern day tribal Africa, for instance, where women do have some means for economic independence, it is not uncommon for a woman to "purchase" a wife or to have many husbands.

In many areas women have fought for economic and sexual independence, but this revolution is only 150 years old-- hardly enough time to truly analyze its societal impact. And only in the last 30-40 years have women been able to decide if and when they want to be pregnant due to contraceptive technology.

If you look at some of the more "fringe" movements in sexual liberation, you'd eventually run into polyamorists. These are people who consider themselves non-monogamous. They may or may not live with a "primary" partner (my observation: they all do take care of their children very well, both biological parents and many adopted aunts and uncles). They may or may not have other partners besides their primary. They may or may not live in a commune with all their partners and children. The KEY ideology of polygamists is that everybody must give their explicit consent to their arrangements, and they must treat all their partners with the respect and love due to that particular partner. I'm not saying I'm for or against this, or that it is a great model, but it does exist, and it does work for some men and women. However, it has been my observation with friends who choose this life that it introduces as many problems as it seemingly solves.

Now, as a Sikh, AS A SIKH, I don't think the question is how our Gurus lived their lives. Our present-day Guru is the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and it is the Gurbani within that guides us; not a history that may or may not be flawed in accuracy. As a Sikh, all your thoughts and deeds must be done with Akal in mind. Always you think of the True Guru. Always you honor the Guru in yourself, in other humans, in nature and in the universe. IF you feel that you honor the True Guru in your heart and soul by remaining monogamous, then that is your answer. If you feel that you can love-- NOT lust after-- more than one person and completely honor how they feel about this type of situation AND you can nuture your children properly, then perhaps that is your answer.

My only real problem with religion is that it "freezes" sexuality into one place and time, despite all that we have learned about sexuality, men, women and reproduction. Knowledge is the Guru's gift to us; the laws that outline how the universe and all of creation works comes from the Guru's Hukam. To throw away this information makes us no better than the creationists who insist that evolution is a sham. However, it is COMPLETELY necessary to give the True Guru absolute control of our mind and soul before we make a decision involving another human being's heart. These decisions will always be among the most important decisions we make in this lifetime.
 

BaljeetSingh

SPNer
Jun 25, 2005
84
27
USA
The quotes mentioned above from gurbani do not relate to Polygamy, but to "lust".

Please note that Gurbani is in Gathya (poetic) format and not Pathya (paragraphs). Poetic compositions use different ways (alankars) to communicate a message. For example, "Atishyokti" alankar which is (and was) commonly used by poets to mention things of large proportions....For example,

jy sau cMdw augvih sUrj cVih hjwr

If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared,
eyqy cwnx hoidAW gur ibnu Gor AMDwr ]2]
even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2||



Now, in the above quote reference to "hundreds" of moons and "thousands" of suns is an example of "atishyokti" alankar. Similary, the third Guru's quote

jy lK iesqrIAw Bog krih nv KMf rwju kmwih ]
`
You may enjoy the pleasures of hundreds of thousands of women, and rule the nine continents of the world.


should not be interpreted literally. Instead, study the "rahao" line which clearly contains the central meaning of the whole shabad

mn ry igRh hI mwih audwsu ]
O mind, remain detached in the midst of your household.

scu sMjmu krxI so kry gurmuiK hoie prgwsu ]1] rhwau ]
Practicing truth, self-discipline and good deeds, the Gurmukh is enlightened. ||1||Pause||

Upon studing the complete shabad (The first line and the rahao line), it is very clear the teaching of this shabad is how to live a Gursikh life..

And all the lines following the rahao line actually a "NOT TO DO LIST" (having sex with millions of (multiple) women, etc.) for a Gursikh.

I suggest that you study the entire shabad and look at its meaning in its entirety and not mis quote a single line separately. We all are mature people and should avoid mis quoting gurbani with half cooked interpretations to sensationalize the topic.

Coming back to the actual question of polygamy, One thing we all need to think is

Is polygamy = sex with more than one partner
Or
Polygamy = Marrying more than one partner

I think it is the later. The former is just pre lust (like visiting prostitutes). The difference is same as between "lust" and "love".

Now is it a sin to love more than one women? I would say no. But is it practical in today's world? I would again say no. For those who are already married, just close your eyes and try to visualize having more than one husband/wife (and more children). I would say, those who visit this forum (Note that the visitors of this forum do not statistically represent the entire population of Sikhs) would agree it is not practical to have more than one married partner.

If we all agree that it is impractical to have more than one married partner, then I do not understand what the fuss is about? If someone agrees, then I ask...Have you tried it yet? If you have not tried it, then again ....what the fuss is about?

If you have tried it, then please let us know how is it possible to love more than one person at the same time.

Regards
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
47
Great men have special priveleges and administrative rights , just like the administrator of this site .

Whaevr greatmen do , as per scholars , it has a great meaning and message , but when the same done a normal human being its Dirty and against what you call Gurmatt .


In the good old days people were more wise than todays . At that people were more scientific and they had synchronized with nature .

At that people used to get married at the age of 11 but now it 18 for women and 20 for men . But this age is also to fool .

When any one commits rape , then people complain , WHY ?

One thing which wisemen as well as others know that no one can escape the sexual urge . Some do it in a polygamy way , some do it in extramarital affairs , some do it in premarital affairs .
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
47
BaljeetSingh said:
The quotes mentioned above from gurbani do not relate to Polygamy, but to "lust".

Please note that Gurbani is in Gathya (poetic) format and not Pathya (paragraphs). Poetic compositions use different ways (alankars) to communicate a message. For example, "Atishyokti" alankar which is (and was) commonly used by poets to mention things of large proportions....For example,

jy sau cMdw augvih sUrj cVih hjwr

If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared,
eyqy cwnx hoidAW gur ibnu Gor AMDwr ]2]

even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2||



Now, in the above quote reference to "hundreds" of moons and "thousands" of suns is an example of "atishyokti" alankar. Similary, the third Guru's quote

jy lK iesqrIAw Bog krih nv KMf rwju kmwih ]
`
You may enjoy the pleasures of hundreds of thousands of women, and rule the nine continents of the world.


should not be interpreted literally. Instead, study the "rahao" line which clearly contains the central meaning of the whole shabad

mn ry igRh hI mwih audwsu ]
O mind, remain detached in the midst of your household.

scu sMjmu krxI so kry gurmuiK hoie prgwsu ]1] rhwau ]
Practicing truth, self-discipline and good deeds, the Gurmukh is enlightened. ||1||Pause||

Upon studing the complete shabad (The first line and the rahao line), it is very clear the teaching of this shabad is how to live a Gursikh life..

And all the lines following the rahao line actually a "NOT TO DO LIST" (having sex with millions of (multiple) women, etc.) for a Gursikh.

I suggest that you study the entire shabad and look at its meaning in its entirety and not mis quote a single line separately. We all are mature people and should avoid mis quoting gurbani with half cooked interpretations to sensationalize the topic.

Coming back to the actual question of polygamy, One thing we all need to think is

Is polygamy = sex with more than one partner
Or
Polygamy = Marrying more than one partner

I think it is the later. The former is just pre lust (like visiting prostitutes). The difference is same as between "lust" and "love".

Now is it a sin to love more than one women? I would say no. But is it practical in today's world? I would again say no. For those who are already married, just close your eyes and try to visualize having more than one husband/wife (and more children). I would say, those who visit this forum (Note that the visitors of this forum do not statistically represent the entire population of Sikhs) would agree it is not practical to have more than one married partner.

If we all agree that it is impractical to have more than one married partner, then I do not understand what the fuss is about? If someone agrees, then I ask...Have you tried it yet? If you have not tried it, then again ....what the fuss is about?

If you have tried it, then please let us know how is it possible to love more than one person at the same time.

Regards


Oh , dear , it is possible to love more than two or three but even millions .

Just imagine when we say Love towards God ,

Love ->God

and God resides in each living and non living creature , so ultimately we are loving not one but millions , and ofcourse including women .


Does Love always means kissing , hugging and Gulcharre udaing ?
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
47
If people don't do polygamy for sex then do they do it do Keertan and Bhajan ...

Ecstacy and Rapture is the End Goal , Sex is just medium and polygamy is first step ... And Childrens are the byproducts out of polygamy .

Now , how WiseMen will Justify and Hide their this sensual pleasure .

They will justify that they want to progress the society and increase their population .
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

one light and two entiy stands for God and devotee and if there are more then one devotee as here in case of us.God being our husband ie Husband of soul ie Khasam becoomes one with polygamy.


Just to counter demographic imbalance by some community we as Sikh need to have more child.Same is true to Hindus and Christians.Otherwise we will have to casterise some males as hapened in Balkens by serbs which will be inhuman.
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
47
If God is considered male and husband , then women are lucky of being women , they are a perfect match with God .

But what men are doing , Kabab mein haddi , considering themselves as wifes of God .

Why men Do not consider God as Female ?
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Sufies do consider God as female love.While Guru Granth Sahib and Dasham Granth Ji and Sarbloh Granth also treat God as Mother as well as father.
To be more clearer.In the form of our family memeber like Wife,Mother or Father or Husband it is God only who is taking care of us.
No need to have attchement of manifestations but with one who manifests self.
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
47
I completely agree with you Dear ,

Its okay to Love God ,

Its Okay that God is Husband.

Its Okay that God is Mother and Father.

Its okay to not have attachment.


When we love , listen and understand other fellow being whether he is in need of us or not . Then , we love God .


When we Love our family then we love God .


When One loves his Wife then he loves God.

When one loves his husband then she loves God.


Love towards absolute God is just Fanatic and extremism .


And that is main reason for world corruption , that people fail to understand their fellow human beings , and chant day and night that they love God .

No one can bypass the Gifts of God and love God directly .
 
Sep 11, 2005
511
10
47
Neutral Singh said:
Polygamy and Sikhism

Polygamy is wide spread among different cultures of the world. According to one study out of '853' cultures only 16 percent stipulate monogamy. Historically most of the Sikh kings practiced polygamy in 18th and 19th centuary. The Guru Amar Dass ji has clearly defined that conjugal relationship has to be two bodies and one soul phenomenon. It vividly conforms to the monogamy idealism.

It appears very paradoxical and enigmatic to a student of Sikh history when one confronts the practice of polygamy by some Sikh Gurus. Historically the following Gurus had more than one wife.
*** Please Note :: The authenticity of historical accounts is debatable in these case as even today we can see people like ex-education minister of India, Murli Manohar Joshi, who simply erased the full chapters on Sikhism in history books of School children and also demeaned the martyardom of Guru Teg Bahadur Ji... So, dont get fooled by historical accounts. ***

1. Guru Arjan Dev.

Wives
- Ram Deyi, daughter of Surri Khatri (Charan Dass) of village Mour married year Bik 1622. Guruji was 11 years old at that
time Guru Amar Dass was on Guru Gaddi. (Ref. DR. Gopal Singh, Kesar Singh Chibbar, Mohinder Kaur Gill)
*** It is a controversial issue among the Sikh historians
- Ganga devi

2. Guru Hargobind

Wives
- Damodri Devi
- Nanki Devi
- Maha Devi

3. Guru Hari Rai

Wives
- Prem Kaur
- Chand Kaur
- Anokhi Devi
- Ram Kaur
- Laddli
- Krishan Kaur
- Kalyani

4. Guru Gobind Singh

Wives
- Sahib Kaur Ji
- Jeeto Rani
- Sundri Devi

Many causes about the practice of polygamy among the humans have been sited by eminent scholars...

Helen Fisher states that men seek polygamy to spread their genes while women join harems to acquire resources and ensure the survival of their young. Polygamy enables men to have more children. Most of the scientific evidence stacks up in favor of monogamy. Desmond Morris summarised the explanations by saying that the pair bonding is a trademark of humans.

But, even then the question arises, why Some Gurus did practice it?

Most of Sikh scholars never touch the subject probably due to the divinity and spirituality associated with Sikh Gurus.
Very few explanations have been given which can be summarised as such...

1. It was the Divine will.

2. One should not raise the issue as they were super humans and their life incidents are beyond the comprehension of commoners.

3. With improved economy of Guru Ghars, the Gurus could afford multiple marriages...

Spirituality, Awarness, Enlightment has nothing to do with polygamy, monogamy, hetrosexuality and homosextuality. This state of being is above and beyond all this.



Guru Amar Dass Ji thus said

bhu ByK kir BrmweIAY min ihrdY kptu kmwie ] (26-13, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
People wear all sorts of costumes and wander all around, but in their hearts and minds, they practice deception.

hir kw mhlu n pwveI mir ivstw mwih smwie ]1] (26-14, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
They do not attain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, and after death, they sink into manure. ||1||

mn ry igRh hI mwih audwsu ] (26-14, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
O mind, remain detached in the midst of your household.

scu sMjmu krxI so kry gurmuiK hoie prgwsu ]1] rhwau ] (26-15, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
Practicing truth, self-discipline and good deeds, the Gurmukh is enlightened. ||1||Pause||

gur kY sbid mnu jIiqAw giq mukiq GrY mih pwie ] (26-15, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, the mind is conquered, and one attains the State of Liberation in one's own home.

hir kw nwmu iDAweIAY sqsMgiq myil imlwie ]2] (26-16, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
So meditate on the Name of the Lord; join and merge with the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. ||2||

jy lK iesqrIAw Bog krih nv KMf rwju kmwih ] (26-16, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
You may enjoy the pleasures of hundreds of thousands of women, and rule the nine continents of the world.

ibnu siqgur suKu n pwveI iPir iPir jonI pwih ]3] (26-17, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
But without the True Guru, you will not find peace; you will be reincarnated over and over again. ||3||

hir hwru kMiT ijnI pihirAw gur crxI icqu lwie ] (26-18, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
Those who wear the Necklace of the Lord around their necks, and focus their consciousness on the Guru's Feet

iqnw ipCY iriD isiD iPrY Enw iqlu n qmwie ]4] (26-18, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
-wealth and supernatural spiritual powers follow them, but they do not care for such things at all. ||4||

jo pRB BwvY so QIAY Avru n krxw jwie ] (26-19, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
Whatever pleases God's Will comes to pass. Nothing else can be done.

jnu nwnku jIvY nwmu lY hir dyvhu shij suBwie ]5]2]35] (26-19, isrIrwgu, mhlw 3)
Servant Nanak lives by chanting the Naam. O Lord, please give it to me, in Your Natural Way. ||5||2||35||


Guru Arjan Dev ji also said...

Awsw mhlw 5 ] (385-1)
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

pwvqu rlIAw jobin blIAw ] (385-1, Awsw, mhlw 5)
The mortal revels in joy, in the vigor of youth;

nwm ibnw mwtI sMig rlIAw ]1] (385-1, Awsw, mhlw 5)
but without the Name, he mingles with dust. ||1||

kwn kuMflIAw bsqR EFlIAw ] (385-2, Awsw, mhlw 5)
He may wear ear-rings and fine clothes,

syj suKlIAw min grblIAw ]1] rhwau ] (385-2, Awsw, mhlw 5)
and have a comfortable bed, and his mind may be so proud. ||1||Pause||

qlY kuMcrIAw isir kink CqrIAw ] (385-3, Awsw, mhlw 5)
He may have elephants to ride, and golden umbrellas over his head;

hir Bgiq ibnw ly Drin gflIAw ]2] (385-3, Awsw, mhlw 5)
but without devotional worship to the Lord, he is buried beneath the dirt. ||2||

rUp suMdrIAw Aink iesqrIAw ] (385-4, Awsw, mhlw 5)
He may enjoy many women, of exquisite beauty;

hir rs ibnu siB suAwd iPkrIAw ]3] (385-4, Awsw, mhlw 5)
but without the sublime essence of the Lord, all tastes are tasteless. ||3||

mwieAw ClIAw ibkwr ibKlIAw ] (385-4, Awsw, mhlw 5)
Deluded by Maya, the mortal is led into sin and corruption.

srix nwnk pRB purK dieAlIAw ]4]4]55] (385-5, Awsw, mhlw 5)
Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of God, the All-powerful, Compassionate Lord. ||4||4||55||

What do Sikhs think about Polygamy ?

All the human beings have the super human powers , it is the two lethal weapons phylosophy and psychology that makes one super human or non super human.

Those who are Proactive , enthusiastic , self motivated , who intiate and lead become superhumans. These people are Internally driven people .


Those who need kick on the butt , become normal . these people are externally driven people .


consider taking an example of a latest computer with P$ microprocessor .


Suppose there are 4 people and 4 computers .

All the computers have the same configuration , but all the 4 people operating it are earning differently .

Does it mean that the person who is earning less , means his computer is less powerfull.
 

kharkoo4life

SPNer
May 31, 2005
23
2
BC, Canada
devinesanative said:
Great men have special priveleges and administrative rights , just like the administrator of this site .

Whaevr greatmen do , as per scholars , it has a great meaning and message , but when the same done a normal human being its Dirty and against what you call Gurmatt .
quote]
All human beings have the same rights. No person, regardless of his social, political or spiritual level is above another. The laws of morality and spirituality do not increase or decrease according to the greatness of a man, they remain applicable to the same full degree on each being.

The Gurus did not consider themselves as special beings, with special rights or privileges. Their whole point of living a regular family life, and that too for 10 generations was to show man that all men are subject to the same laws of moral conduct. Whatever qualities and level of conduct the Guru expected in his SIkh, he first lived and demonstrated those qualities in their own lives. They taught by example. Their message was not that you are ordinary beings so you must live like this, and i am the guru so am free to do whatever i choose. No. The same rules applied to all members of the khalsa panth, including the guru.

With regards to the talk of polygamy and debate of whether it should be allowed or not, indeed it is true that all men and women are free to live as they choose so as long as no harm of any sort is committed against another. But this by no means gives us the right to distort the lives of the gurus to suit our own personal views on a subject.

For instance, every man is free to choose to drink alcohol if he wants to. And we cannot label someone as being a good or bad person merely on the fact of they drink or dont drink. Thus they can still be a great person in light of their desire to drink ocassionally. But just because this one person can still be an exemplary citizen does not give us the right to assume or conclude that the gurus who we also believe to be great citizens may also have engaged in drinking. The basis for attributing a thought or action to the guru is not individual views or even general societal norms -- the only basis is gurmat, and that we can find enshrined within guru granth sahib.

No action, which goes against any of the principles of gurmat can be deemed acceptable for any person, regardless of how great that person may have been (including the guru). What kind of hypocrisy would it be for a guru to scribe a philosophy for people to live their lives by yet not follow that same philosophy themselves.

Yes the gurus taught us to love all human beings, and there is no harm in loving as many people as possible at once. But this does not mean that we should show this love through the same means for every person. A mans love for women may be so pure and so immense that he feels the same level and intensity of love for every woman. But does this mean that he should display this love in the same manner for each woman? A Mans love for his daughter may be equal if not greater than for his wife, but does this mean he should be sharing his love for them both in the samemanner towards each?

The love the gurus talk of is not the everyday physical love we see in movies or read in books. It is a far more powerful form of love which transcends all physicality. So let us not use this love the guru talks of and distort it to justify mere physical love.
 
Dec 8, 2005
241
12
Dear brothers

SSAKAL:)

I am all for polygamy. It has got a advantage without sounding eugenetist.

Polygamy can only be done by people who can afford the ecnomic consequences of it.

If economics is one parameter of sucess in todays world then the ability of polygamy would be a marker of your sucess.

However the whole thing has got so tied up to religion , woman rights , modern society and the world of logic that it is difficult to socially proclaim it as such.

muslims use the garb of religion to defend it and I think it contributes a portion to there sucess . See my thread " Indian muslim a sucess story:- lessons for Indian Sikhs "

So if you are smart and daring ;go ahead and have as many wives as you want . you will certianly not get official sanction for it . Rather you would be on the wrong side of law.

But then they say a smart genome can do the impossible.

PS : - please also accept that a woman can do the same eugeneics by having some smarter guys genes without being wedded to him.

sorry for all this non - sikh like talk.
But it sounded logical so I penned in my thoughts.
bhul shul maf
I am otherwise a happily married guy with 3 children and a wonder ful wife.

luv
WGKWGF

hps62:) :whisling: :wink: :star:
 

Hardkaur

SPNer
Jan 31, 2006
22
2
you got that information about sikh gurus having multiple wives from AN ISLAMIC WEB PAGE IVE SEEN IT, IF YOU WANT TRUE ACCURATE INFORMATION ON SIKHISM THAN ASK A SIKH, not someone of another relgion whose trying to break down our beliefs. none of the gurus had more than one wife, and by WIFE I MEAN SEXUAL PARTNER. JUST BY UNDERGOING A MARRIAGE CEREMONY DOES NOT MAKE YOU ARE HUSBAND AND WIFE, WHICH IS WHY PARTNERS CAN ANNUAL THERE MARIAGE IF THEYVE NEVER HAD SEX IT MEANS THEY WERE NEVER REALLY MARRIED SINCE THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF MARRIAGE IS TO REPRODUCE. there are many stories in account of women apporaching guru's and asking them to take them as there wives but the gurus already being married refused saying they were already married. Take for example the case of mata shaib kaur ji, she appraoched guru gobind singh ji and was determined on being his wife but he was already married to mata sunadri ji and refused to make her his wife. So he said he would give her the respect and social status of a wife without actually allowing her to be his wife (have any form of physical relations) thus he made her the spirtual mother of the khalsa, im surpised by the lack of faith many of you show in the writtings of the gurus. And as for all you men out there who favour polagamy just to let you know polagamy FAVOURS WOMEN MORE THAN IT DOES men.

Think about it IF THERES AN EQUAL NUMBER OF MEN AND WOMEN ON EARTH AND 1 MAN HAS 4 WIVES, THAT MEANS THAT 4 MEN WILL NEVER GET A CHANCE TO REPRODUCE. WOMEN WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT CHANCE IREGARDLESS BECAUSE MEN ARE ABLE TO TAKE MORE THAN 1 WOMAN. Polagamy is just not practical, and although its quite common in the animal kingdom, the reprodcutive cycles of those creature are different than those of humans. HUMAN FEMALES ARE AMONG THE FEW ANIMALS THAT ARE CAPABLE OF REPRODUCING AT ANY TIME, thnk about it children can be born and conceived at any time and moth of the year (jan-dec), however in many animals the male and female species mate say in the spring or something because it is the only time the FEMALE reproductive cycles function so in order to produce offspring and for the survival of the species many males mate with multiple females.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,210
In the end -- it is not something to get bothered over in this day and age. I think you are right Hardkaur ji -- this continuing issue/theme is spread by religious factions that are bent on undermining faith and creating spiritual chaos and mental confusion. The message should be our focus. Thank you. :star:
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 25, 2006
2,921
1,647
IF THERES AN EQUAL NUMBER OF MEN AND WOMEN ON EARTH
Yes, if that was true. But its never true.

although its quite common in the animal kingdom, the reprodcutive cycles of those creature are different than those of humans.
So in animals polygamy occurs becasue they only reproduce in spring?
The statements below do not support this statement.


HUMAN FEMALES ARE AMONG THE FEW ANIMALS THAT ARE CAPABLE OF REPRODUCING AT ANY TIME, thnk about it children can be born and conceived at any time and moth of the year (jan-dec), however in many animals the male and female species mate say in the spring or something because it is the only time the FEMALE reproductive cycles function so in order to produce offspring and for the survival of the species many males mate with multiple females.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Jul 4, 2004
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Some of the so called "history" regarding the Sikh Gurus is not only flabbergasting but ludicrous....and this sort is mostly repeated by the Derawallahs and other half baked parcharaks who have no idea that their tall tales masquerading as "history" have neither head nor tail..

Guru Har Rai Ji....Born in 1630 in the house of Baba gurditta ji to Mata KISHAN KAUR. Baba gurditta Ji - son of Guru hargobind Ji passed away when Har rai Ji was only 8 years old. Har rai ji then spent the next 9 years growing up in his Grandfather Guru Hargobind Jis company.
Guru Har rai was confirmed on Gurta by Guur Hargobind Ji in Feb 1641...but was actually GURU in 1644 - wehn Guru Hargobind ji passed on.
Guru Har rai Jis marriage took place on 14th Jnauray, 1640 to Mata SULAKHNI daughter of Bhai Daya ram of Aroop Nagar. She was only 10 years old..and so was Guru har rai Ji....Bhai Daya ram then moved his house from Aroop nagar to KALIANPUR- to be near Kiratpur where the Guru was living. Two years later 16th june 1642 SULAKHNI was sent to the house of Guru har rai Ji ( MUKLAWA). Only after two years and three months later did Guru hargobind Ji pass on and Gurta Gadee was confirmed on Guru har rai ji in 1644.
First child of Guru har rai Ji was Ram Rai born 24-02-1646, second child ROOP KAUR 20-04-1649 and third child Guru Har Kishan Ji on 20-07-1652.

Mata sulakhni..mother of three....nickname TRIBENI....her parents moved to KALIANPUR.....nickkname....KALIYANEE....impossible ?? not really....

The SEVEN WIVES of Guru har rai Ji are not only..SEVEN...!!!! BUT according to DERAWADEE Sources..the SEVEN ARE SISTERS !!! Completly ludicrous ?? who says so ?? we are SANTS/BRAHMGIANIS..we KNOW !!! Brahmgiani ki gatt brahmgiani janneh says who !!! and their chelas are no better..IF OUR SANT says so..then its WRITTEN IN STONE..becasse he is a ...you guessed it..a brahmgiani....ALL Logic/sense/ etc goes out the window the moment a sant brahmgiani sits on the stage...

Would any ( YES ANY ??) right thinking father of SEVEN GIRLS....marry off his daughters to a TEN YEAR OLD BOY ( even IF he is Guru designate and son of a GURU ??) Even if there is such a father...what about the AGES of his seven daughters....remember the (GURU) HAR RAI is just 10...so the ELDEST DAUGHTER has to be around 10...or maybe a year or two older....then what AGE is the YOUNGEST ?? Unless they were all SEXTUPLETS ?? or is it OCTuplets ??

Then they ignore the historical fact that ALL three children of Guru har rai ji were from the same one wife...the others didnt exist..or they were not wives...or they were all issueless...couldnt bear children..or..or ..or.. endless possibilities. The strange thing is Sikhs are willing to IGNORE GURBANI and what the GURU TAUGHT..and rely on these "endless possibilities"....or..or..or..:ice::ice::ice::ice::ice:

We must always use our GURU BESTOWED intellect.. AKL..to be discerning...logical...use touchstone of GURBANI....to compare..evaluate..all sources..events..etc and arrive at conclusions that are as per what our GURUS would do according to their own teachings....Avar updesseh AAP na kareh is NOT the SIKH GURU's WAY at all. The Sikh GURUS way is always..DO as I DO....Leadership by EXAMPLE..not empty preaching...:23_2_72::welcome:
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 25, 2006
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Perhaps it would be better to divide the mess on this thread into its relevant issues, and discuss these separately. Number 1, is being discussed here.

1. the number of wives Gurus had

2. the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with regards to polygamy

3. sexism - Where men can have more than one wife but not vice versa.

4. lust.

5. the practicality of polygamy, the philosophy of love and sex.

6. scientific evidence of polygamy in other animals and in human evolution.
 

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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

By the 5th Guru Arjan Dev, the shabad is on Ang 616 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa.

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Soraṯẖ mėhlā 5.
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl...

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