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Mediumship And Sikhism

Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
I have a question regarding Mediums. First, let me explain myself. I come from a long long of family members who are "psychic" in nature, what I mean by this, is they have the ability to see spirits (ghosts and demons) and hear, feel or sense them. I am among them, and although I may want to strengthen this ability, I am wondering what the Guru says about doing this. I don't do it for money or financial gain. I do this to help people (offer comfort ect). I do not scam people, I never have and never will. But I do not want to do something that is taboo, especially since I believe I have finally found my religious home (I call it). I feel very connected and at home (comfortable or my beliefs match very strongly with Sikhi). Please help, I need advice or guidance. Thank you!!!
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,180
Henderson, NV.
I have a question regarding Mediums. First, let me explain myself. I come from a long long of family members who are "psychic" in nature, what I mean by this, is they have the ability to see spirits (ghosts and demons) and hear, feel or sense them. I am among them, and although I may want to strengthen this ability, I am wondering what the Guru says about doing this. I don't do it for money or financial gain. I do this to help people (offer comfort ect). I do not scam people, I never have and never will. But I do not want to do something that is taboo, especially since I believe I have finally found my religious home (I call it). I feel very connected and at home (comfortable or my beliefs match very strongly with Sikhi). Please help, I need advice or guidance. Thank you!!!
Ayla ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sikhi does not believe in anything psychic. You, perhaps identify yourself with other things in Sikhi, as ghosts/demons/spirits have nothing to do with Sikhi. There is no connection there whatsoever.
 

Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
Ayla ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sikhi does not believe in anything psychic. You, perhaps identify yourself with other things in Sikhi, as ghosts/demons/spirits have nothing to do with Sikhi. There is no connection there whatsoever.
I am a tad confused. Guru says that there are beings such as ghosts ect. So, what I am asking is, would being a Medium as well as a (eventual) Sikh, not be advised. Or, can I pursue this, and not be discriminated against in the Sikh community (for doing mediumship).
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,180
Henderson, NV.
I am a tad confused. Guru says that there are beings such as ghosts ect. So, what I am asking is, would being a Medium as well as a (eventual) Sikh, not be advised. Or, can I pursue this, and not be discriminated against in the Sikh community (for doing mediumship).
Please post the whole Shabad with your understanding regarding ghosts from SGGS, our only Guru, so we can discuss this further.

Thanks.
 

Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
Please post the whole Shabad with your understanding regarding ghosts from SGGS, our only Guru, so we can discuss this further.

Thanks.

Page 276

ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਭੂਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਸੂਕਰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗਾਚ ॥
Many millions are the evil nature-spirits, ghosts, pigs and tigers.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,180
Henderson, NV.
Ayla ji,

Guru Fateh.

In my opinion, one liner from the whole shabad is used as a weapon to prove one's argument rather than a tool to understand and then practice Gurbani in our lives, the Miri-Piri way of life. This is the reason I requested from you the meaning of the whole Shabad.

Firstly, Basics of Sikhi distorts Gurbani for some reason. The presenter mixes Hindu practices with the Sikhi ones. I have talked to him personally about it to no avail.

The Shabad you mentioned is talking about the beliefs of the people at that time. It is an acknowledgement of people's beliefs. It is not an acceptance of these beliefs in Sikhi, rather to the contrary.
 
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Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
Ayla ji,

Guru Fateh.

In my opinion, one liner from the whole shabad is used as a weapon to proves one's argument rather than a tool to understand and then practice Gurbani in our lives, the Miri-Piri way of life. This is the reason I requested from you the meaning

Firstly, Basics of Sikhi distorts Gurbani for some reason. The presenter mixes Hindu practices with the Sikh ones. I have talked to him personally about it to no avail.

The Shabad you mentioned is talking about the beliefs of the people at that time. It is an acknowledgement of people's beliefs. It is not an acceptance of these beliefs in Sikhi, rather to the contrary.
I see, how unfortunate that they would mix practices. How am I supposed to learn about Sikhi now? I have no gurdwaras near me or anything of that nature. So I have been using the resources I have available, and obviously it was my naivety and I got misinformed.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,180
Henderson, NV.
I see, how unfortunate that they would mix practices. How am I supposed to learn about Sikhi now? I have no gurdwaras near me or anything of that nature. So I have been using the resources I have available, and obviously it was my naivety and I got misinformed.
Ayla ji,

No harm no foul. There are many resources on the net to learn about Sikhi. If you have any particular questions like the one above, we are all here for you to help you understand the Sikhi concept which is quite simple actually.
 

Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
Ayla ji,

No harm no foul. There are many resources on the net to learn about Sikhi. If you have any particular questions like the one above, we are all here for you to help you understand the Sikhi concept which is quite simple actually.
What resources (and or youtube channels) would you recommend I start with. And back to my question, does this mean that Sikhi doesn't believe in psychics and (ultimately) it would be my choice whether or not to do this or is there another meaning to what you are trying to tell me, and I am just not understanding. Thanks for all your help!!
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,180
Henderson, NV.
What resources (and or youtube channels) would you recommend I start with. And back to my question, does this mean that Sikhi doesn't believe in psychics and (ultimately) it would be my choice whether or not to do this or is there another meaning to what you are trying to tell me, and I am just not understanding. Thanks for all your help!!
One of the best resources is the one you are on, SPN. Sikhi does not believe in Psychics, Prophecies,Prophets,Fasting,Taking dips in holy waters, Pilgrimages and many more meaningless mechanical rituals waiting for miracles to happen which Sikhi does not believe in either.

This is not the Sikhi way of life to determine the unknown as known which in fact is unknowable.
 

Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
One of the best resources is the one you are on, SPN. Sikhi does not believe in Psychics, Prophecies,Prophets,Fasting,Taking dips in holy waters, Pilgrimages and many more meaningless mechanical rituals waiting for miracles to happen which Sikhi does not believe in either.

This is not the Sikhi way of life to determine the unknown as known which in fact is unknowable.
Thanks for clarifying! :D If I wanted to read books, what would you recommend and what website would you recommend, to purchase them from.
 
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Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,180
51
I come from a long line of mediums, most of my family members have been mediums, and have been successful in that pursuit. I am the only member in 4 generations not to be a medium, I am an extra large.

There are many articles and discussions here on many topics, find one and read, contribute and join in, or start a thread, through debate and discussion, we may find your answers
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Jul 21, 2012
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One of the best resources is the one you are on, SPN. Sikhi does not believe in Psychics, Prophecies,Prophets,Fasting,Taking dips in holy waters, Pilgrimages and many more meaningless mechanical rituals waiting for miracles to happen which Sikhi does not believe in either.

This is not the Sikhi way of life to determine the unknown as known which in fact is unknowable.
But... how do you reconcile that with the OPs actual experiences of doing those things? This member is not 'waiting' for a miracle, rather these things have manifested in their life without them actively doing anything to bring them on.

And... could there be a difference between encouraging us not to pursue those things, and those who have been given the gift to do them? Could Gurbani simply be telling us that striving to do these things just won't bring us to Waheguru quicker, but that doesn't mean these things don't happen in nature. To me, saying Sikhi 'doesn't believe in' these things, is the same as saying Sikhi doesn't believe in the sky being blue... even though you can you look out your window and see, it's obviously blue! Or is it a shade of indigo? LOL

This has come up before on here, regarding things like out of body experiences. Now, are OBEs against Sikhi? Are OBEs considered to be 'psychic' or 'supernatural' or..... could these things just be actual natural abilities, part of nature, and a normal thing in the Universe.... when we look at the fact that everything is actually connected? That means there is no 'magic' or 'supernatural' about it!

As far as ghosts, spirits etc. Since our existence is on multiple levels, I truly believe that some part of us (as the individual) exists after death for awhile (etheric). Gurbani even speaks about the silver cord at some point that so many have mentioned in near death experiences. And I can play for you a recording from an answering machine, a message left by someone 2 days AFTER they died! I still have the recording. It was proven as much as possible to not be a hoax. It happened in my own family, the phone company confirmed no actual call was made to the home at the time of the message, meaning someone at the house had to have used the memo function. But... nobody was home, and it was his voice.

Just because we can't explain something, doesn't mean it's magick. It just means we have not yet understood the science behind it. Doesn't mean it's not real. I think Gurbani is more saying we don't NEED to do these things to progress spiritually. But it's not that same as saying they don't exist, which I think is damaging. Can you imagine if Gurbani said that Gravity was not real? So maybe in another 50-100 years we will prove that ghosts are just what's left over of the consciousness after leaving the body? (quantum physics is already stating that our consciousness exists in a quantum state... that is OUTSIDE our body and can be transferred to somewhere other than our body).
 

Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
But... how do you reconcile that with the OPs actual experiences of doing those things? This member is not 'waiting' for a miracle, rather these things have manifested in their life without them actively doing anything to bring them on.

And... could there be a difference between encouraging us not to pursue those things, and those who have been given the gift to do them? Could Gurbani simply be telling us that striving to do these things just won't bring us to Waheguru quicker, but that doesn't mean these things don't happen in nature. To me, saying Sikhi 'doesn't believe in' these things, is the same as saying Sikhi doesn't believe in the sky being blue... even though you can you look out your window and see, it's obviously blue! Or is it a shade of indigo? LOL

This has come up before on here, regarding things like out of body experiences. Now, are OBEs against Sikhi? Are OBEs considered to be 'psychic' or 'supernatural' or..... could these things just be actual natural abilities, part of nature, and a normal thing in the Universe.... when we look at the fact that everything is actually connected? That means there is no 'magic' or 'supernatural' about it!

As far as ghosts, spirits etc. Since our existence is on multiple levels, I truly believe that some part of us (as the individual) exists after death for awhile (etheric). Gurbani even speaks about the silver cord at some point that so many have mentioned in near death experiences. And I can play for you a recording from an answering machine, a message left by someone 2 days AFTER they died! I still have the recording. It was proven as much as possible to not be a hoax. It happened in my own family, the phone company confirmed no actual call was made to the home at the time of the message, meaning someone at the house had to have used the memo function. But... nobody was home, and it was his voice.

Just because we can't explain something, doesn't mean it's magick. It just means we have not yet understood the science behind it. Doesn't mean it's not real. I think Gurbani is more saying we don't NEED to do these things to progress spiritually. But it's not that same as saying they don't exist, which I think is damaging. Can you imagine if Gurbani said that Gravity was not real? So maybe in another 50-100 years we will prove that ghosts are just what's left over of the consciousness after leaving the body? (quantum physics is already stating that our consciousness exists in a quantum state... that is OUTSIDE our body and can be transferred to somewhere other than our body).
Thank you, you have expressed what I have been trying to say, exactly! For me, I have been a medium since I was very young, its not like I was waiting for a miracle or accident that would make me a medium. It just was something that happened to me, regardless or whether or not I wanted it. I have had too many experiences to say that the things I have seen, aren't true or are real. They are, and if they are and Vaheguru has given me this gift, I want to use it, to help people (and ghosts cross over and find Vaheguru)!

I just simply wanted to know, if this type of work was taboo and frowned upon. I wanted to know what the Guru said about people who do this. To me, as long as guru says "Hey, I created you and have given you this gift, use it with my blessing" then I will. But if it says otherwise, than I won't.
 
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Ishna

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May 9, 2006
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Sikh Rehat Maryada Article XVI (d) seems pretty extensive about the things Sikhs aren't supposed to do or believe in. No horoscopes, clairvoyants, omens, magic, spells, incantations, rituals for the dead, no seers, soothsayers, oracles. It seems counterintuitive that the SRM would prohibit all these things yet be OK with mediums and talking to dead people when you're not even supposed to erect a tombstone or cremation memorial.

Plenty of people have all sorts of spiritual experiences. Not sure how anyone can keep from descending into a well of cognitive dissonance by believing all of them are real.
 

Harkiran Kaur

Leader

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Jul 21, 2012
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Sikh Rehat Maryada Article XVI (d) seems pretty extensive about the things Sikhs aren't supposed to do or believe in. No horoscopes, clairvoyants, omens, magic, spells, incantations, rituals for the dead, no seers, soothsayers, oracles. It seems counterintuitive that the SRM would prohibit all these things yet be OK with mediums and talking to dead people when you're not even supposed to erect a tombstone or cremation memorial.

Plenty of people have all sorts of spiritual experiences. Not sure how anyone can keep from descending into a well of cognitive dissonance by believing all of them are real.
Where you and I differ is in the definition of 'magic' etc. To you spiritual experiences are magic or hokey... The word supernatural makes them sound like fairy tales. What if these things instead are NATURAL abilities?? Just because we can't explain them yet doesn't mean they are not real.

And even then, we are starting to glimpse these things. If the base of the universe is nonphysical and the physical is created by conscious observation, then why can't experiences that originate from the nonphysical be real?? And yes it's been proven that conscious observation does affect the physical reality. In fact the results of the experiments showing small can be reproduced over and over again.

So to me these things that happen to people are not something magical or supernatural. But instead I see them as natural things just another part of our weird and wonderful existence.

Just like the OP, I never asked for out of body experiences. They just happened. Also when you experience it its kind of hard to not believe in it lol. And I know they were not hallucinations or just a dream etc. I actually wrote a book on OBEs and included all the angles from the sceptics and why those things can't be accounting for all these experiences.

For example with OBEs one suggestion has been that they are product of REM sleep and dreams.... But experiments by Dr Charles Tart using EEG concluded although OBEs can happen in REam, they can also happen in any other brain state meaning they can also happen when the brain is not considered to be dreaming. This means the dream theory holds no water.

Other refuted theories include OBEs being result of oxygen deprivation as in clinical death - in that case an NDE, however not all OBEs occur while the heart has stopped not even when the brain is deprived of oxygen at all.

For those who witnessed their surgery from outside the body (and there are MANY cases which have great details in the accounts! Things people couldn't know beforehand like what the surgeons were saying etc) it was suggested that again it was just dreams etc but general anesthetic is known to suppress REM.

So just because we can't explain how something happens doesn't mean it is not real. Gurbani is only saying to not actively search these things out because they will be a distraction from the ultimate goal of merging with creator. It doesn't say they are not real. It says don't believe in these things as a means to bring you closer to God.
 

Ayla

SPNer
Aug 23, 2016
12
3
Arizona
Where you and I differ is in the definition of 'magic' etc. To you spiritual experiences are magic or hokey... The word supernatural makes them sound like fairy tales. What if these things instead are NATURAL abilities?? Just because we can't explain them yet doesn't mean they are not real.

And even then, we are starting to glimpse these things. If the base of the universe is nonphysical and the physical is created by conscious observation, then why can't experiences that originate from the nonphysical be real?? And yes it's been proven that conscious observation does affect the physical reality. In fact the results of the experiments showing small can be reproduced over and over again.

So to me these things that happen to people are not something magical or supernatural. But instead I see them as natural things just another part of our weird and wonderful existence.

Just like the OP, I never asked for out of body experiences. They just happened. Also when you experience it its kind of hard to not believe in it lol. And I know they were not hallucinations or just a dream etc. I actually wrote a book on OBEs and included all the angles from the sceptics and why those things can't be accounting for all these experiences.

For example with OBEs one suggestion has been that they are product of REM sleep and dreams.... But experiments by Dr Charles Tart using EEG concluded although OBEs can happen in REam, they can also happen in any other brain state meaning they can also happen when the brain is not considered to be dreaming. This means the dream theory holds no water.

Other refuted theories include OBEs being result of oxygen deprivation as in clinical death - in that case an NDE, however not all OBEs occur while the heart has stopped not even when the brain is deprived of oxygen at all.

For those who witnessed their surgery from outside the body (and there are MANY cases which have great details in the accounts! Things people couldn't know beforehand like what the surgeons were saying etc) it was suggested that again it was just dreams etc but general anesthetic is known to suppress REM.

So just because we can't explain how something happens doesn't mean it is not real. Gurbani is only saying to not actively search these things out because they will be a distraction from the ultimate goal of merging with creator. It doesn't say they are not real. It says don't believe in these things as a means to bring you closer to God.
So, as far as you, I and Guru are concerned. As long as I am honest and just helping others, but not using mediumship as a means to get closer to God, Its ok? I'm just trying to understand. And what is this Sikh Rehet Mariada, Please forgive the spelling.
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Jul 21, 2012
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So, as far as you, I and Guru are concerned. As long as I am honest and just helping others, but not using mediumship as a means to get closer to God, Its ok? I'm just trying to understand. And what is this Sikh Rehet Mariada, Please forgive the spelling.
Basically imagine you are on a path towards some amazing garden, but along the way, you notice some pretty flowers. You stop to smell those flowers and then you decide to go back home again. The next time you try to go to the amazing garden, you again are sidetracked by the beauty of the flowers you find on the way. If you keep being sidetracked by those flowers, you will never arrive at your intended destination. Same thing, these abilities (which some don't believe are real because we have only mostly subjective evidence - though quantum physics is starting to prove at least the possibility of them!) But these abilities, which are spiritual in nature, should not distract us otherwise we will be so taken in by the experience of them, that we forget we are on a path to go very much further than that! Usually spiritually advanced people will have some sort of ability or intuition etc however those abilities and experiences are not our end goal, and to put too much focus on them will detract us from our real goal which is liberation from cycle of births and deaths (some on here also believe birth and death means just states of mind and not actual birth and death - I believe that since consciousness IS the basis of the Universe, and as such thought... then they actually are right in a sense :) But they actually mean the limited consciousness living in duality) but our ultimate goal is breaking away from this illusion of reality and merging back with Waheguru.

You will find two main groups of belief on here:

1. Those who interpret Gurbani to only be speaking of the physical world, and no belief in anything spiritual (or not caring about the spiritual). They see all mention of spiritual topics to be pointing to just another 'state of mind' or psychology.

2. Those who interpret Gurbani to be speaking about our soul and spiritual journey towards Waheguru.
 

Ishna

Enthusiast
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SPNer
May 9, 2006
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Where you and I differ is in the definition of 'magic' etc. To you spiritual experiences are magic or hokey... The word supernatural makes them sound like fairy tales. What if these things instead are NATURAL abilities?? Just because we can't explain them yet doesn't mean they are not real.

And even then, we are starting to glimpse these things. If the base of the universe is nonphysical and the physical is created by conscious observation, then why can't experiences that originate from the nonphysical be real?? And yes it's been proven that conscious observation does affect the physical reality. In fact the results of the experiments showing small can be reproduced over and over again.

So to me these things that happen to people are not something magical or supernatural. But instead I see them as natural things just another part of our weird and wonderful existence.

Just like the OP, I never asked for out of body experiences. They just happened. Also when you experience it its kind of hard to not believe in it lol. And I know they were not hallucinations or just a dream etc. I actually wrote a book on OBEs and included all the angles from the sceptics and why those things can't be accounting for all these experiences.

For example with OBEs one suggestion has been that they are product of REM sleep and dreams.... But experiments by Dr Charles Tart using EEG concluded although OBEs can happen in REam, they can also happen in any other brain state meaning they can also happen when the brain is not considered to be dreaming. This means the dream theory holds no water.

Other refuted theories include OBEs being result of oxygen deprivation as in clinical death - in that case an NDE, however not all OBEs occur while the heart has stopped not even when the brain is deprived of oxygen at all.

For those who witnessed their surgery from outside the body (and there are MANY cases which have great details in the accounts! Things people couldn't know beforehand like what the surgeons were saying etc) it was suggested that again it was just dreams etc but general anesthetic is known to suppress REM.

So just because we can't explain how something happens doesn't mean it is not real. Gurbani is only saying to not actively search these things out because they will be a distraction from the ultimate goal of merging with creator. It doesn't say they are not real. It says don't believe in these things as a means to bring you closer to God.
Don't tell this to me, tell it to the Akal Takht. It's their SRM telling you not to buy into it, not me. How do you reconcile your supernatural beliefs with what the SRM tells you to think in this regard?

I might also point out that one can have a spiritual life without also holding supernatural beliefs.

Also, if we are already ONE with Waheguru, what exactly do you mean by 'journey towards Waheguru'??
 

Ishna

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May 9, 2006
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So, as far as you, I and Guru are concerned. As long as I am honest and just helping others, but not using mediumship as a means to get closer to God, Its ok? I'm just trying to understand. And what is this Sikh Rehet Mariada, Please forgive the spelling.
The Sikh Rehat Maryada is the official Code of Conduct of Sikhs, issued by the Sikh central religious authority. You can read it in English at the link I posted earlier. It details the daily life of a Sikh, Sikh ceremonies, taboos and beliefs, etc.
 

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