Kaur Power

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

mai ji
Accepted. I apolagise if I came across a bit harsh but She is truly a great lady that the kaurs should be proud of. Her work is an inspiration to any one who wishes to help fight the injustices against women.

Tony ji,

Not at all. We need to be called out when we make such mistakes. Or at least I do. :yes:

Just a sidenote: I do not mind saying when I am wrong. One thing I learned when I turned 50 is that it's OK to be wrong and say, "I'm sorry." And it's OK to not know and say, "I don't know." I can leave omniscience and infallibility to Akaal Purakh (by whatever name).

 

[tony]

Mai ji
I too am wrong many times and have to apolagise, I see the apology as a way of saying Ive learnt something new and thank you. And may I thank you as Ive learnt many things from yourself, Especially how to be more Humble. Please try and read Jasvinders books they will have you sobbing from the first chapter till the last, they make you want to stand up and really fight for womens rights.
Tony

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

I just read an article about the clergy and domestic violence. Seems we're not the only community in denial, eh?

D.C. Area Clergy Urged to Shine a Light on Domestic Abuse - washingtonpost.com

 

[spnadmin]

Mai ji

Family violence crosses all cultural and economic boundaries. Every religion is plagued and some religions do not clearly and adamantly confront its evils. This is in part because the scriptures make woman subservient to man, or even less. And in part because the source culture may even support violence irrespective of the religous teachings themselves.

Sikhism speaks loud and clear as a religion -- "Why Call Her Bad?" She gave birth to kings, she gave birth to you. It is not Sikhism but cultural habits. A single negative feature of culture can be hard to erase without seeming to do damage to all of one's personal identity. Just my theory on that.

We need to create a bulleed list. And then we need to go into a huddle and have a meeting to talk about what an advocacy sub-forum should include and how to design it. I can't do it now because of other threads now at boiling point.

 

[tony]

Jasvinders Fight isnt just about domestic violence. Its about cultural habits from Asia, Its about the abuse both men and women suffer when they refuse an arranged marriage. her book tells how they are locked up, beaten and even murdered if they refuse. If they run away they are disowned, some tracked down and it tells of the treatment they get when they are found. Most of the cases are of muslims, but not all. In the cases relating to Sikhs its not so much of violence, more the disownment that causes the problem. But in every case there is one underlying reason for what ever treatment they receive and thats family Honour, IZZAT. To disown one of your family, to deny their very existence, to tell your own child you are dead in their eyes, would some one please tell where the honour is in that. To care more about what some else thinks of you than what your own child thinks of you, To pressurise your own child in to marrying someone theyve never met and because they refuse dishing out that sort of mental cruelty, is that what honours all about. the worst thing about it is its mainly the so called religious ones that do it the Keshdharis, the honourable turban wearers. Where in our religion in the SGGS does it say that thats the way to treat a fellow human being. Honour equals pride , Pride equals ego. Ego is one of the five thieves. Most of these forced marriages is for the money or status that goes with them, Both are maya. Want to help stop cruelty then start at the Gurdwara. stand up and tell these people that they are wrong, tell them of the dishonour they bring to our religion, tell them how against the teachings of our Guru jis it is. Lets not look at other religions till it stops in ours. Want to help, then stop looking at the girl who left home to marry for love as a ****, stop talking about them as low lives whispering and gossiping, Start treating the daughters as equals to your sons, what he can do then so should she. stamp out the Punjabi culturalism thats never left our religion, Do what the Guru jis said to do, Treat all as equals reguardless
Tony

 

[kds1980]

Dear tony

Do you even know how much extreme pressure is put on on sikh boys so they should not cut their kesh.Brainwashing,emotional blackmail ,Threats to not to talk to them etc.The 90% turbans you see on young sikh men in urban cities is because of this pressure.

So don't turn this into boy vs girl issue.In India boys are expected to choose career which their parents want,marry the girl of their parents choice and then take care of their older parents.

incase of Girls they are expected to marry the man which their parents choose.Any type of voilation by Boy or girl could lead to disowning

I am sorry but this is Indian culture and this is the way they are living their lives.There is nothing Boy vs Girl in this

 

[tony]

Kanwardeeep Ji
The first line of my post refers to both sex's. As for Indian culture wasnt that what Guru jis tried to change. Its up to the people who are at the top of our religion to stand up and say its wrong for both sex's to be forced into any thing against their will, including wearing a turban. I personally cant understand how any one can disown their own flesh and blood for something like this. And I know its not just the men who apply this pressure, both sex's play there part, Still doesnt make it right. Still shouldnt be practised in our religion.
Tony

 

[kds1980]

Kanwardeeep Ji
The first line of my post refers to both sex's. As for Indian culture wasnt that what Guru jis tried to change. Its up to the people who are at the top of our religion to stand up and say its wrong for both sex's to be forced into any thing against their will, including wearing a turban. I personally cant understand how any one can disown their own flesh and blood for something like this. And I know its not just the men who apply this pressure, both sex's play there part, Still doesnt make it right. Still shouldnt be practised in our religion.
Tony

Tony ji

This thread this thread is about Kaur power that's why I stopped discussing in it because it will Derail the thread and long posts about other issues will be discussed.The only reason I replied because it mentioned about Discrimination

What is right what is wrong is quite bigger and another topic and require bigger discussion.

 

[spnadmin]

Actually tony ji - I think you are making a relevant point. Culture may drive people to move in one direction. Religion may urge them in another direction. Sikhism both in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Bhai Gurdas and its history claim equality for women with men. Patriarchy, in India or anywhere else, do the opposite. So it almost seems as if Sikhism is in conflict with the culture where it sprang up-- India. Almost a shock! But then was that not always the case? Was not/Has not Sikhism always been in conflict with cultural oppression (Muslim Turks and Persians, Brahminism, the English raj, the mahants, and of course there is 1984).


It was a Sikh who said this, ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਬੀਜੁ ਕਰਮਾ ਕਰੋ ਸਲਿਲ ਆਪਾਉ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਪਾਣੀ ॥
eihu than dhharathee beej karamaa karo salil aapaao saaringapaanee ||
Make this body the field, and plant the seed ofgood actions. Water it with the Name of the Lord, who holds all the world in His Hands.

It is not easy.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

And, of course, Narayanjot ji comes in with a word of sanity!

Yes, Sikhi, in its true, pure form does go against Indian culture in many ways.

Without getting deeply into the subject, my observation is that in Indian culture, the primary force in a person's life is the group, in this case, the family. The welfare of the family is paramount and the individual is expected to put that ahead of their own wishes and desires. In the West, it is the opposite. The individual's wants and desires are the primary force and the welfare of the family is secondary, if considered at all.

There is bad and good in both systems. I think we should try for a happy medium. Not easy, but little about being a Sikh is easy.

As for izzat, as I said earlier, that should be put into a rocket and shot into the sun where it would be destroyed forever.

:ice:

 

[spnadmin]

Here is a list that I put together after analyzing the posts where suggestions were made. I do not recommend ranking them for this reason. Some of these items may not seem as important as others. But they are more manageable as first steps toward a larger goal. They can can be addressed more quickly, and will have a cummulative effect if implemented as a group of issues. And we don't want to lose momentum. Tackling something huge like stopping men from beating their wives is very difficult to effect immediately. But beginning the process of educating women and men is something we can do right away.

• Advocate for participation of women at all levels of Gurdwara seva, including performance of kirtan at Harimandir Sahib
• Become advocates for changing laws that are ineffective, fostering new laws when they are needed, and enforcing existing laws when they are not being enforced
• Become an online portal for women and men where they have access to webinars, articles, and other information that raises awareness of abuse and discrimination against women
• Become an online portal where women and families can gain access to information about services and advocacy
• Campaign against female foeticide
• Change negative attitudes about women who excel in work, at school, in settings outside the home
• Educate women about their status, helping them understand that they themselves are not aware that they are in a bad situation; Build their confidence to seek help and raise their awareness of how to get the services they need
• Educate women and men to recognize abuse at home and in relationships by sharing stories, case studies, videos, and articles that bring them to understand that there are other ways of relating that are positive
• Encourage women and girls to learn self-defense skills (e.g., Gatka) to protect themselves but also to build their self-esteem
• Help women understand that they in no way “caused” or are responsible for physical abuse, but that they are the victims of another’s uncontrollable anger
• Disseminate information about bullying
• Raise awareness of community protective services that are available, and foster confidence in women who are being abused to use these services
• Raise awareness that being abused is not shameful
• Teach newly-weds the signs and symptoms of abusive relationships

Now I think the next step is to take each idea and brainstorm 2 or 3 or more strategies that we can put into action with our current resources. This is how we build sustainability and capacity. Once we begin to see evidence of success from these early stages, we will be in a better position to convince others to provide resources so we can do more ambitious things.

Please forgive me for being so bossy.

 

[spnadmin]

I just had to post this quote from the thread just published on Ashvinder Kundan Singh...:welcome:

"There are those who wait for the world to change. and then there are those who put their strengths into action to revolutionize their lives and the environment around them. Their dreams become their driving force, as they take the world by storm and revise the way we think."

 

[Admin]

Wonderful Narayanjot ji!! Thanks for taking your precious time out and doing the most concise synopsis and inspired by your enthusiasm, SPN now has just now owned kaurpower.com... this website will be used to implement all of your efforts in a more visible and systematic way. We will have this website up and running in a week's time with waheguru's grace.

 

[spnadmin]

Actually, we are blessed that you Aman ji are always there to stand behind us and make ideas become reality.

I am not joking.

 

[harbansj24]

Narayanjot ji and Mai ji,

With your permission may I add that Kaur Power only for those who stand up, own up and want to be counted as Kaurs. As kanwardeep ji had pointed out earlier, this tribe is rapidly depleting!

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - Simran - Waheguru naam simran by sikh kids

 

[spnadmin]

Too beautiful and an Ardaas is what we need to follow it -- all the events too much without a blessing.

 

[simpy]

............may I add that Kaur Power only for those who stand up, own up and want to be counted as Kaurs. As kanwardeep ji had pointed out earlier, this tribe is rapidly depleting!

In my humble opinion..
Those who stand up for themselves have the same jyot as the ones who don't.... so why differntiate????????
AND you know who dont stand up actually are the ones who need more help. They are the ones who lack courage/oppurtunity/knowledge/support...... A girl who knows to speak for herself---will find her way out of any trouble sooner or later(many times even without any body's support)...............but the one who can't is the one who need support/knowledge/oppurtunity/courage from the point zero.........and we should not neglect them at any cost..............as if they stay neglected, this social evil will never come to an end, doesn't matter what we do..............

all kaurs(women) deserve to be counted as kaurs..........it is the family and social setup that make them the way they are... they are humans... just like you and me and others...


Guru Ji says-- ਨ ਕੋਈ ਸੂਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਹੀਣਾ ਸਭ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ n koee soor n koee heenaa sabh pragattee joth thumhaaree (panna 916)

 

[kds1980]

Those who stand up for themselves have the same jyot as the ones who don't.... so why differntiate????????

The Questions is not of differentiation The question is of the concept of equality.As I said earlier sikh community never recognised the acheivements and contribuitions of clean shaven sikh men then why should community recognise acheivements of sikh women that are non practicing.If we do this then we are giving special treatment to women and that is not at all equality

My personal views are That sikh community should maintain One rule if it wants to promote equality.I don't have problem in either way

 

[simpy]

The Questions is not of differentiation The question is of the concept of equality.As I said earlier sikh community never recognised the acheivements and contribuitions of clean shaven sikh men then why should community recognise acheivements of sikh women that are non practicing.If we do this then we are giving special treatment to women and that is not at all equality

My personal views are That sikh community should maintain One rule if it wants to promote equality.I don't have problem in either way

Thanks for the argument.


In my humble opinion-- If that is the case.... Women I am talking about need way much more help than clean shaven achievers. I mean these achievers had some support/knowledge/courage/// to do something--(you need all these qualities and oppurtunities to become an achiever of some kind/any kind)........... Then these women who are lacking all these qualities and oppurtunities--Need Extra Extra Help......... Thanks

And as a True Sikh-- one doesn't limit himself/herslf to just Sikh or sehajdhari or any other class-- A true Sikh does it for the humanity at large. Thanks again.