General Kachi Bani

[Ambarsaria]

Veer Luckysingh ji I admire your interest and effort even if it is private.

The following thoughts if of any help,

SRM

a. Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation.
b. Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures.
c. In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.
d. It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain.
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Luckysingh
So in reference to your situation, Luckysingh veer few observations,

i. People who crafted SRM were quite picky bunch and had general good grasp on use and abuse principles
ii. In your questions one would see three things of importance

1. Congregation
   • It will generally mean where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in parkash
2. Kirtan
   • Singing the Gurbani in Raag compliant
3. Rendition non-raag style
   1. Any other rendition as non-Kirtan and non-Raag

iii. For me in popular media like Internet, it can be suitably stated that the rendition is considered “non-raag style” by default unless there is a clear Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji prakash and a congregation shown to imply it is like “Congregation” centric “kirtan” emulation.

1. However the essence of respectfulness should be guiding
2. If you are doing rendition non-raag style there is considerable creative freedom on however the only caveat is,

a. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain.
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Standing Dhaddi vs. sit down Kirtan

1. Dhaddi Singh is generally related to Sakhi Centric, History Centric poetic rendition without the use of complete sabads as though to do Kirtan
2. So by definition almost all renditions of Dhaddi sings are not complete sabads from Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

a. However Dhaddi Singhs have generally availed of the opportunity to use parts of sabads as illustration and linkages to the poetry that they write or use from other writers and not as in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
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3. There are much less rules regarding Dhaddi Singhs and their renditions

a. For example, Dhaddi Singhs were not allowed to perform in the main central part of Darbar Sahib Amritsar.
b. For example, Dhaddi Singh performances were at Manji Sahib, a stage outside of Parkarma at Darbar Sahib Amritsar where political, and other activities took place including speeches, katha, etc.
c. In many Gurdwaras this used to be part of a dewan outside of where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in parkash.
​

4. Outside of main larger Gurdwaras and where separate stages have not been practical, there has been a mix but guiding light is similar.
5. Sit-down Kirtan as per the SRM rules previously stated above based on Gurbani and other supporting scriptures.
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I am not authority on this but I share how I have seen it in practice at Darbar Sahib Amritsar and outside of Punjab Gurdwaras.

Hope it is of use.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

We must not confuse "Kachi Bani with Raag etc. Its NOT the Raag thats in question..its the very WORDS....the poetry written by MEN that is attempted to be put forward as GURBANI..... So a Song sung in SHUDH Raag ASA..doesnt make that SONG Gurbani simply becasue the Raag is pure...and GURBANI sung OUT OF TUNE will NOT make it into "Kachi Bnai" simply becasue the harmonioum player and the Tabla Player are going North and South respectively...GURBANI remains GURBANI..no matter what.

The "REFRAIN" part in the SRM is a warning to NOT "INTERJECT" man made lines INTO a Gurbani SHABAD....Some ragis make it a point to INTERJECT WAHEGURU...Boleoh JI Waheguru..Boloh ji Satnaam waheguru etc INTO the MIDDLE of shabads...others even interjected entire LINES into Gurbani Shabads...this is the crux of this warning. The RAHAO PANKTEE hsould IDEALLY be made the REFRAIN/REPEATED becasue the Rahao is the PAUSE..and PONDER panktee that contains the CENTRAL MESSAGE in 99.99% of Shabads....for example..in the popular shabad..LAKH KHUSHIYAN PATSHAHIAN..Je satgur andar karey.....this Panktee is NOT the rahao and is not the Refrain..as it GIVES a TOTALLY WRONG concept of what Guru ji is saying in the Complete shabad...BUT Ragis love to make this panktee refrain/repeated againa nd again because its SUPERFICIAL MEANING seems to IMPLY lakhs of happiness and good tidings if the satgur looks favourably upon one...THIS TYPE of WRONG REFRAIN is being warned about in the SRM.

2. Now due especially to the Cancerous NANAKSAREE DERAWADEEISM...we have advanced from INTERJECTING not only just single words like Wahegur/satnaam/boloh ji satnam waheguru etc etc INTO Shabads.....but to INTERJECTING ENTIRE SHABADS from elsewhere in the SGGS....and doing this REPEATEDLY in a SACRILEGE Called SAMPAT SEHAJ PAATH....whereby the Paathee stops repeatedly to REPEAT a certain shabd after a few shabds have been read.. THIS SACRILEGEOUS INTERJECTION is proclaimed to ENHANCE the POWER of the Paath many times over....in itself a false concept as Gurbani is NOT a Mantram/jantram for power/getting gifts/boons etc...
Latest sacrilege in this chain is that nanksarees now have begun performing AKHAND PAATHS with SAMPAT being repeated after a few shabds....
And to this they have added a new concept of MONI AKHAND PAATH (SILENT READING AKHAND PAATH).........effectively SILENCING THE GURU.

 

[Luckysingh]

Thank you Gyani ji, for explaining this.
Kachi bani seems to be a loose term that many use. I understand that not doing kirtan in a specific raag is not kachi, unlike some others may claim.

You have explained the 'refrain' part very well. It is much more clear and makes more sense.

My only concern is that only hymns from Guru Granth or Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal Ji are to be performed in presence of Guru Granth Sahib.

So, are the Dhaadi's allowed, as they are NOT seated to do so therwise ??
I'm sure I have heard them not doing the above.

I ask this, as I was told by an elder that if standing up, I could perform my compositions!!
I obviously never gave in to this. Infact I wouldn't ever consider it.
Also, I can't really see any significance if one is standing or seated. I mean how has this misconception all come about ??

But, my point is, are there really that many misconceptions with this issue ??
What's right for one isn't actually right for all.

Ambarsariaji mentioned that dhaddis were not allowed in Darbar Sahib.
I'm sure that many of us have seen them now where Guru Granth Sahib's prakash is.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

So, are the Dhaadi's allowed, as they are NOT seated to do so therwise ??

Luckysingh ji by definition Dhaddi Singhs are like History Musical Ramblers with obviously focus on Sikhism topics. Nothing more and nothing less. Nothing to relate to Kirtan part of SRM at all.

Sitting and standing part perhaps allows for easier identification of Kirtan per SRM versus not. Not too bad an approach to keep clarity in Sangat/congregation.

I have seen people do Sabads that way even though it is not very common

Just if it helps. Gyani ji definitely knows much more and his answers supersede any of my information.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

When Guru Ji was in Human Form...Guru Ji sat on a raised stage in sangat..hymns of Gurbani were sung - at first by Guru Ji and Bhai mardana Ji, then perhaps by Guur Ji and Sangat members with talent in musical instruments...and later by Bards like bhai Satta Ji Bhai balwand Ji...and then following a "strike" by the Bards due to a minor misunderstanding Guur Arjun ji sahib once again REITERATED that ALL SIKHS should ideally learn how to perform KIRTAN and Kirtan was then done by Guru Ji and the sangat when earlier they had depended on the professional singers Satta/balwand.

(Side note on this "strike" by Satta Balwand Ji...As i said earleir these two were professional Muslim Bards same as Bhai mardana ji earlier. They performed Kirtan in the presence of Guru Arjun ji sahib in sangat. One had a daughter who came of marriageable age and a date was set. They approached Guru Ji for Financial aid..and Guru Ji gave them the entire Goluck collection of that day. But they wnated more and so went home and sulked. When they didnt come for Kirtan the next day, Guru Ji sent some sikhs to go call them. They refused. Then Guru Ji sent Bhai Gurdass Ji and Baba Budha Ji and a few more very prominent sikhs to persuade the ragis..but instead of coming the ragis became abusive and even stated that the Guur would soon "know" how much their Melodious kirtan was the factor in the goluck...soon the goluck would deplete so much the Guur would come to his senses and realize their real value...the guru is GURU simply due to their melodious voices and musical skills. The Sikhs reported this back to Guru Ji Sahib. Guru ji then himself decided to go to the Satta balwand house to persuade them personally. Instead they even insulted GURU NANAK JI sahib and the previous Guru sahibaans....declaring that even Guru nanak ji was nothing without Bhai mardaana Jis Kirtan. Guru Arjun Ji replied that He can take any insult but an insult to Guru nanak ji is unforgiveable and If thats the way they prefer then so be it....we will dispense with profesisonal Ragis and the sangats will do kirtan together. The days began to go by...and contrary to expectations no one else came to request the ragis to return. Soon they realised their folly...as their income declined badly and they returned to poverty. Then they went looking for a Sikh to intercede with Guur Ji on their behalf...but no one wanted that "job" as everyone had come to know of the abuse and insults they had heaped on Guur nanak ji and the previous Gurus.To cut the story short...finally one kind Sikh accepted to go and intercede with Guru Ji on their behalf. Guru Ji..being the All forgiving kind soul that he was..of course forgave them...and thats when they SANG their self composed Satta balwand Vaar in Raag Ramkali PRAISING GURU NANAK JI and the FOUR successor GURU SAHIBS. The very same Guru sahibs that they had so recently INSULTED !!.)
Historically the DARBAR SAHIB has been the SEAT of PIRI and thus ONLY GURBANI form SGGS has been sung as KIRTAN in its premises. The AKAL TAKHAT area just OUTSIDE has been accepted as the SEAT of MIRI..and this palce was where the DHADEE VAARS were SUNG. Here i may add that the VAARS in SGGS are ALL "MIRI + PIRI " and they have been composed to Popular Folk TUNES of the day..the DHUNNS..example: Vaar Asa Ki..is in Raag Asa but the Tune DHUNN for the Vaar is a Popular Folk Tune of a Vaar called TUNDEH rajah Asrajah Ki...a folk tale of a Raja that was one armed.. Since this FOLK TUNE was already very popular..Guru Ji has commanded that we read Vaar asa Ki according to this TUNE. ( This seems to NEGATE the argument some have put forward against singing KIRTAN according to..say.......Popular Bollywood Tunes ?? or some Popular music from I-Tunes ??...why NOT ?? Guru Ji accepted the TUNDAH ASRAJAH BALLAD TUNE...and various other FOLKLORE TUNES of the DAY due to their POPULARITY and being on everyones lips ?? And these folklores have nothing particularly of religious/dharmik colours either..... Also NOTE that Guru Ji composed GURBANI along the POPULAR SOCIALLY ACCEPTED rasmo/rivaaj..Rituals practised in the Day..as GHORRIAN (wedding songs sung when the Groom rides a mare )..allahnniah (songs sung at time of sadness..death....I take this to mean that GURU JI was actually PROVIDING humanity/Society with a SPIRITUAL ALTERNATIVE....the Ghorriahn sung normally are down to earth good fun and human feelings..while the GURBANI GHORRIAHN sung to the same tunes are SPIRITUAL LESSONS...I have heard many so called "purists" argue that IF a Gurbani Shabad is sung to the tune of a Bollywood song..then the listening sangat's MIND will automatically go to the SONG ?? IN Guur Jis day..wouldnt this same argument apply ?? Vaar raag Aas Ki SUNG to the Tundah Asrajah Dhunn....wouldnt the listener's MIND go to the STORY/FOLKLORE about the Tundah Raja..and stray from the Gurbani ?? Did Guru ji consider that point ?? and is it valid ?? I think Guru ji did consider it and its NOT VALID. A WEAK MIND..doesnt even need a "tune" to WANDER OFF...even IF the Ragis are singing in Pakka raag ..many listeners may indeed be busy mentally already "watching" the latest Bollywood film anyway...and wondering when the Guru ka Langgar will open and they can eat and depart !!...and whether the tickets will be sold out by then ??...and a STRONG MIND..can be seated in a cinema and be watching Shah Rukh Khna prancing to the latest bollywood tune..and still be attached to a Gurbani Shabad heard back at the Gurdwaara sung to the same tune...?????????????? possible ?? definitely.

2. Gurdwara STAGE vs KIRTAN STAGE.
From as far back as I can remember all Gurdwaras have had two STAGES. ( MOST Historical Gurdawras/Takhats have only KIRTAN STAGE ...thats why the MANJI SAHIB STAGE in Darbar sahib complex and other historical gurdawras takhats are used for POLITICAL/DHADEE/KAVITA Competitions etc etc ). The "Stage" used by the Stage Secretary....that is used to address the snagat by a STANDING SPEAKER..is used for almost anything..except KIRTAN. Here the Gurdwara managemnnt cna appeal for donations, make announcements...programmes...kavis can get up and read their poems, lekhs..dhadees can sing songs etc etc. During a wedding the MC stands there...

2. In the Darbar sahib example..the SGGS can and is taken to Manji Sahib/Akal takhat etc...where the STAGE for announcements dhadees etc is present as is the kirtan Stage...BUT the Vice versa CANNOT happen. A "announcement stage" cannot be set up inside the Darbar sahib..there ONLY the NIROL KIRTAN takes place - NO Katha even. DITTO for the other Takhats and Historical Gurdwaras.

Note" Veer Ambarsariah ji is being kind to me..his knowledge and way of presenting the truth is very much after my own style...sometimes better than mine..definitely better.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

another small point..a lot of "purists" dont like the way Dya Singh of Australia sings Gurbani...because he uses many non traditional instruments, his team has many non-sikhs..and he sings on stage built high like those that Michael jackson types use...
Imho its the MESSAGE of Gurbani that needs to be broadcast...not the way /the music/the instruments or the religion/race/origin of the performer. Guru Nanak ji wnet to every conceivable place....in every way possible and snag the Divine Gurbani to ALL. Thats the way we have to sing Gurbani...to please HIM..and ourselves..and the listeners...so use a Guitar..use a electric guitar..the harmonioum..the casio electric piano..the computer whatever..its all OK....as long as the message gets across and you a re happy to be one with HIM...