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Jyots In Gurdwaras?

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Gyani ji,
I am a bit surprised by your comment.

Page 89, Line 15
ਹਰਿ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਹਿ ਕੋਇ ॥
हरि जलि थलि महीअलि भरपूरि दूजा नाहि कोइ ॥
Har jal thal mahī▫al bẖarpūr ḏūjā nāhi ko▫e.
The Lord pervades and permeates the water, the land and the sky; there is no other at all.
Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


The concept of Atma entails a Parmatma. Afterall, this atma is going to merge with the larger atma, that is, parmatma or paratma.

ਪਰਾਤਮੁ
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary
ਵਡੀ ਆਤਮਾ, (ਭਾਵ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿ ਪਰਾਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਇਹੁ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ਹੇ॥ {ਮਾਰੂ ੧, ਸੋਲਾ ੧੦, ੮:੩ (1030)}।

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia
ਸੰ. परात्मन. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ. ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ. "ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿ ਪਰਾਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਹੁ". (ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ ਮਃ ੧) "ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਏਕੋ ਕਰੈ". (ਧਨਾ ਮਃ ੧) ਆਤਮਾ ਜੀਵ. ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ.
Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com


ਪੰਨਾ 661, ਸਤਰ 11
ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਏਕੋ ਕਰੈ ॥
आतमा परातमा एको करै ॥
Āṯmā parāṯamā eko karai.
His soul and the Supreme Soul become one.
ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

ਪੰਨਾ 1030, ਸਤਰ 12
ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿ ਪਰਾਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਇਹੁ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ਹੇ ॥੮॥
आतमु चीनि परातमु चीनहु गुर संगति इहु निसतारा हे ॥८॥
Āṯam cẖīn parāṯam cẖīnahu gur sangaṯ ih nisṯārā he. ||8||
Know your soul, and know the Supreme Soul; associating with the Guru, you shall be emancipated. ||8||
ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok



ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary
ਪਰਮਆਤਮਾ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਜਿਨੀ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ ਸੋਈ॥ {ਆਸਾ ੧, ਅਸ ੨੦, ੬:੧ (421)}।

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Dictionary
n. (from Sk. Param + âtamu) higher self i.e. God
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.


ਪੰਨਾ 421, ਸਤਰ 16
ਜਿਨੀ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ ਸੋਈ ॥
जिनी आतमु चीनिआ परमातमु सोई ॥
Jinī āṯam cẖīni▫ā parmāṯam so▫ī.
Those who understand their own souls, are themselves the Supreme Soul.
ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


Yes these are concepts from the various philosophical schools of the ancient Indian Brahmins (philosophers). Many such concepts exist and are endorsed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji..the "Atma" is the Natural Law that pervails in the cosmos...its NOT a "soul" that is 'separated" and then rejoins some bigger parmAtma... we get all that when we wear the coloured specs and not the transparent glass of Gurmat.
You would haev undoubtedly heard the raag bilwail shabd..Sooraj kiran mileh panni ka panni hooa raam......Its READ at all Shaheede Gurpurabs of Guru Arjun ji and also at all FUNERAL BHOG ceremoneus b{censored}es of individulas...and its meant to tbe taken that the Atma has rejoined the Sun just as its Rays do and the water elements in the body have returned to water state...
EACH of the meanings given by Bhai kahn Singh nabah in mahan kosh of "Atma..ParmAtma " etc can be validated by Gurbani shabads....ATMA is also the BODY...and as such when a BODY is elf destructed (suicide)..its called ATAM-HATIAH...now..that act is certainly not killing the "soul"?? or is it..how could anyone kill the soul ??

I take it that ATMA is "CONSCIOUNESS"....awakwening of the mind to follow the Laws set out..be AWARE. IF we stick to the goings and comings of atmas as rooh..souls etc that was already an old idea thoroughly seeped deep into the Indian religious body..if we take it that souls/roohs will be put back into dead bodies..that idea has also beena s old as the Abrahamic religions..in that case then GURU NANAK has not brought about nay CHANGES..nothing new...we have to agree with many that Sikhism is just ahotch-potch remix of alreeady established hinduism/islam...a little bit of country a little bit of rick and roll ??? The perosn deeply seeped in 'country" will try and recognise the "country" bit..and the Elvis fna will try and catch the bit about Rock and Roll...but the fact is the Guru Shaabd melody is totally NEW...we can pick all the "country" bits and claim its ALL country...and the others can pick the Rock bits and claim ita all rock...but it really isnt.

Well in my view this shabad is NOT even remotley about merging lights and waters or dust unto dust etc...its a LESSON in PHYSICS !!

Water is in three stages..solid, liquid at room temp and gaseous. Guur Ji takes the MANN - the ONE that is controlling the BODY...as Water that has FROZEN hard due to it NOT allowing the body to follow the GURU's teachings...and this Solid water frozen piece of ice..MELTS when it meets the Warmth GYAAN of the GURU...and as a result TRANSFORMS back INTO "WATER".
ON page 878 Sagr mehn boond..boond mehn sagar..always translated as the Ocean is in the drop and the drop contains the Ocean....??? a seed of wheat grain..has both a "wheat tree" and Blood/energy inside it...IF the grain gets a proper soil etc..it will become a Wheat Tree...and if it gets into a Cow's mouth..it gets chewed up and transforms into blood of the cow..its ready for BOTH. Same way..a Human mind has BOTH awareness and sleep built in..a human mind cna be awakened ..made aware conscious..or it cna sleep and be in coma...the EFFORT of GURBANI is to AWAKEN..make AWARENESS and CONSCIOUSNESS....and karamkaands rituals etc do the OPPOSITE..lull the huamn into a deep sleep ..even "religious Coma" where he is satisfyingly comatose awaiting rebirth in a better joon due to his good deeds, donations etc while not lifting a finger against tyrannies injustices etc he sees..this was the lesson Guru nanak ji went to the Himalayan sadhus and Rishis to teach..
PLease visit www.SikhMarg to read the six part schoalrly article by Prof Gurbachan Singh ji..on this based 100% on all the meanings form mahan kosh which you ahev provided. Its just too lengthy to translate into Englsih...
http://www.sikhmarg.com/2008/1116-gurmat-vich-atma01.html
 

BaljinderS

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INDIA has a social aspect of what we call "JHOOTH"....no one other society ahs this inhibition....is it due to CASTE ??? The Arabs afghans pathans etc all eat from the same plate....the Chinese do the same...and the SIKHS are made to eat from the same plate and drink form the same batta during Amrit sanskaar ceremony...thus killing the "Jhooth" inhibition ??? From the on an Amrtidharee is not supposed to eat from a non-amritdharees palte..is that jhooth or is it religious inhibition..??? Is JHOOTH for helath reasons..immunity building or caste purity..??/ i wonder... and then we have all drinking water form sarovars and feet baths at Gurdwara entrances...people picking up dropped karrah parshaad off floors and eating that..etc etc..??/ Ambarsariah ji ahs covered the immunity/health section very well..a new perpesctive perhaps..???

Veer Ji, its all pakhand which either comes from lack of knowledge or done on purpose to make themselves look humble in front of others. Its easier to do this then to read Gurbani and discover the truth for themselves.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Purakh mehn naar naar mehn purakh buujhoh brahmgyani...the Womnn is IN the Man and the man is IN the Woman...it takes the sperm of the man to produce a Woman..and the Woman in turn produces Man...Raat mehn din din mehn raat...and see what Modern Science says..the human body contains BOTH male and female..one dominates and that part shows..the other part remains "buried" but its still there...its Law of nature..NOT due to nay Karam etc or past deeds....lol..the Brahmin will tell you..that man is born blind becasue in hsi past life he didnt give a gold plate to the Brahmin...or the Chrostian will try and convince you..that ...Jesus came to wash YOUR past Sins...and the Muslim will tell you that on Day of Kiamat Allah will sit in justice and give you back yoru soul..yet Both the Christian and Muslim will say that a Gay or a Lesbian etc is definitley so becasue of ????? past deeds..bad luck..??? why ??? So what IF an Indian refuses to give a donation to a Brahmin/sant baba/Brahmgyani whatever... a nd becomes a Dog in the next life..a Dog in an American household is way better than the average Indian living on the footpath..a Race Horse worth millions is insured for millions, lives in airconditioned luxury ...while an impoverished Indian beggar human sleeps on the street in winter or sumemr.....and who actually has proof that the a race Horse did indeed become one due to his past karma ?? Its all conjecture which is RUBBISHED by gurbani Gyaan of SGGS..the BRAND NEW GYAAN of Guru nanak Ji....Gurbani is meant to be USED here and NOW to change the BODY into a Better Harmandar...
 

BhagatSingh

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Gyani ji,
Bhagat Singh ji..the "Atma" is the Natural Law that pervails in the cosmos...its NOT a "soul" that is 'separated" and then rejoins some bigger parmAtma...
Yes as famously articulated by Adi Shankarcharya ji. 100 points to you and Shankarcharya ji.


ਸੂਰਜ ਕਿਰਣਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਜਲ ਕਾ ਜਲੁ ਹੂਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
Yes ice(mind) in the presence of the sun (Guru) and his teachings (Sunlight) melts and becomes ਰਾਮ, God.

ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲੀ ਸੰਪੂਰਨੁ ਥੀਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
The jyot merges (ਰਲੀ) with Ultimate Jyot and becomes complete as ਰਾਮ (God).

Guru Arjan Dev ji's stance in this shabad is leaning more towards Ramanujacharya ji, who held a slightly different viewpoint than his guru Shankarcharya ji. He said that there is a difference between atma and parmatma, as the atma (e.g. of human) is a bit stupid (to put it simply, it is limited to a particular form e.g. human) whereas parmatma (God) knows everything and is not limited to any form (he pervades all of them). But through introspection, by learning about one's origin one can merge into parmatma. This is consistent with the shabads I have posted above and the shabads you mention. The droplet of the ocean although contains the ocean is not the ocean itself.

Gyani ji,
It would be wrong to assume what Guru Nanak is trying to say before studying what he says. That would lead one to conclusions that do not hold or non-sequitors. I am happy to study first and conclude later than to assume before study.
On of the things not to assume: That Guru Nanak Dev ji always differs from older philosophers.


Going back to:
Bhagat Singh ji..the "Atma" is the Natural Law that pervails in the cosmos...its NOT a "soul" that is 'separated" and then rejoins some bigger parmAtma...
You and Shankarcharya ji are correct here. This true at peak experiences during heavy introspection, searching into atma. When one rigorously looks for atma, one finds that there is only that one is the natural law that pervails the cosmos. Guru's do not disagree with this but their teachings definitely tilt away a little bit. Their language differs. They will say when one rigorously looks for atma, they merge with parmatma.

It's actually the same. HAhaha :happymunda:
Let's say at time 2:00 - one's observation is that one is this distinct atma.
*After introspection, learning and experience*
Let's say at time 5:00 - one's observation is that there is only "the Natural Law that pervails in the cosmos" (it). You can say you merged with it or that you already were it.

Cheers
 

Harry Haller

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I am not keen on the word merge, companies merge, well, they don't merge, one generally swallows the other, and its called merging.

What I am now, I always will be, I shy away from the concept that at some stage, everything is going to be wonderful, and there will be rice pudding every day for breakfast, and pork belly every day for dinner, this is an extremely Abrahamic way of looking at things in my view, that one day, yes, one day, its all going to be ok, all we have to do is have faith!

What I am now, I always will be, if I am lucky, I will adopt some traits of Creator, and have more good days than bad days, and that is all I hope for, and that is all I want, the strength to deal with adversity and the wisdom and knowledge to stop creating adversity, to love, to share. With other religions, heaven is a by product of being good, with Sikhi, being good is being in heaven, it is not a test, it is life
 
Jan 17, 2012
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[QUOTE Both the Christian and Muslim will say that a Gay or a Lesbian etc is definitley so becasue of ????? past deeds..bad luck..??? why ???QUOTE]


We were approached by a Man who could not understand why suddenly he had turned into a Homosexual. He was at wits end. Help he said.

When we looked down into his Body through super conciousness, we found he had a spirit of a Homosexual man inside him. In other words A spirit had jumped inside him!

After carrying out Spirit removal (Excorsim) this man reverted to his normal self.
Another young lady was very disturbed she came to us to ask for help.
She said Please help me I am not a Lesbian however I am suddenly being attracted to women.

I dont like this please tell me what I can do.

In her past life regression we found she was a Male in her previous life.
A very strong Male person who had many female friends
Her attachment to being a male was so strong, it had come through into this life time.

Even though she was born as a woman, in this life, she was still interested in other women.

As soon as we asked God to remove this attachment she became her normal self again.

This topic is very interesting and I attach a good book for you to read.

Its not Hogwash or rubbish.
This stuff exists we should look at all the evidence around us and then make a decision.

Sat Naam Waheguru
Amarjit
 
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Ambarsaria

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[QUOTE Both the Christian and Muslim will say that a Gay or a Lesbian etc is definitley so becasue of ????? past deeds..bad luck..??? why ???QUOTE]Veer amarjit singh bamrah ji I think the girl you refer to is saying the same in the video below in a different language. How many languages you think God understands? One has to speak English or Hindi or Urdu also works in Jantar/Mantar?

Jantar Mantar song - Shubh Mangal Savdhan

Jantar Mantar song - Shubh Mangal Savdhan - YouTube

ZAREEF - DIL DEY JA TE DIL - CHOO MANTAR - YouTube

Please get hold of yourself there of course are impacts of suggestive therapy. Don't get the God or mysteries or Jantar Mantar in the middle of all this.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Harry Haller

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Amarjitji,

In some ways I envy you, you are a real child of the world, a real interesting person, and in some ways I even admire you for having the conviction to share your thoughts and theories.

I would LOVE to share with you some of these theories, I would LOVE to read these books, to gain an insight into the world that you inhabit, but I cannot, with huge regret, I cannot, as it will take me off the road I am on now, and every moment spent contemplating something which my Guru has already informed me leads to nowhere is a moment wasted, the 11th Guru already tells us that this is the thin end of the wedge, and it leads to Babas, Sants, to looking for solutions in the ether, instead of reality.

its not Hogwash or rubbish.
This stuff exists we should look at all the evidence around us and then make a decision.


Veerji, We do not need to do this, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has already made the decision, the Hukam regarding this and ideas like it.

I hope you can take my thoughts, and my Veer Ambarsariaji's thoughts with the same grace and conviction that enables you to put yourself above the parapet

Gurfateh

P.S. On a lighter note, when I was in my early 20's I was convinced I was a lesbian trapped in a man's body, I did find many many women who attempted to help me with this situation
 
Jan 17, 2012
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Sometimes Paji

We have to open our eyes and see the world around as well through
other people eyes.

I admire your writings. Most of them are good
You have much knowledge. This is excellent.
You have much knowledge of Gurbani.
And its good you keep everyone on their toes.

However just because you have not studied other areas does
not mean they are not true or they don't exist..

I have no knowledge of Gurbani as you do Because it was not my path this lifetime.

For the last 15 years I have studying these areas. I have been blessed to meet
masters who delve in higher conciousness as easy as you drive a motor car.

I am sorry it appears to me you only accept what you want to and no more.
If I am wrong please forgive me.
Please read the book if you can. Its a good book.

Lots of blessings to you

amarjit

PS I can't understand why 3 pictures of the book have come in to my post.
 

japjisahib04

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Guru Sahib already warned us by saying, ‘srawag sidh smooh sidhan ke dekh firio ghar jog jatikey...He checked all these houses for us. We need not waste time reinventing wheel. No time for these things. Gurmat is unlimited.’ Let us learn this first. Therefore leave all above aside and, “japoh ta eko naama - contemplate and understand gurbani and rise up in the flood light of Gursabd. All other actions lead to hypocrisy, superstitions, destructions and confusions thus are fruitless.” - Guru Granth ang.728.5.
 

Harry Haller

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Sometimes Paji

We have to open our eyes and see the world around as well through
other people eyes.

I admire your writings. Most of them are good
You have much knowledge. This is excellent.
You have much knowledge of Gurbani.
And its good you keep everyone on their toes.

However just because you have not studied other areas does
not mean they are not true or they don't exist..

I have no knowledge of Gurbani as you do Because it was not my path this lifetime.

For the last 15 years I have studying these areas. I have been blessed to meet
masters who delve in higher conciousness as easy as you drive a motor car.

I am sorry it appears to me you only accept what you want to and no more.
If I am wrong please forgive me.
Please read the book if you can. Its a good book.

Lots of blessings to you

amarjit

PS I can't understand why 3 pictures of the book have come in to my post.

Amarjitji,

Many thanks for your kind compliments, but I am unworthy.

I actually have little/no knowledge of Gurbani, everything I know has been learned from the school of having the s@@t kicked out of me, it is only in the last year that some of the thoughts and voices in my head have been started to make sense, before I embraced Sikhi again after many years in the wilderness, I kept saying to my wife that there must be a truth, a universal truth, and I was overjoyed to find out what Satnam meant.

I absolutely agree with you that just because I refuse to accept something, does not mean it does not exist.

Amarjitji, it is not a case of accepting what I want, it is a case of believing in Hukam, and trusting Hukam as to what is going to assist me, or hold me back.

I have a heart condition, a few weeks ago, I ended up in an ambulance, off my head on laughing gas, as my chest screamed in pain, and my left arm felt like it was being beaten with red hot iron rods, cut a long story short, I was adamant I wanted an angiogram, but the cardiologist refused, in his opinion, he thought I was fine, the pain, he was certain was due to the wires holding my chest together, and the scar tissue, he absolutely ruled out an angiogram on the basis that he felt it could send everyone on the wrong path, and he could end up treating something that was irrelevant, and ignoring his gut feeling, I did not understand at the time, I think I do now


Gurfateh Veerji
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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PS I can't understand why 3 pictures of the book have come in to my post.??????????


is it time to ask "god" as to which "spirit" has invaded Spn Forum..or is it a simple 3 click salute that caused this pehnomenon....btw..clicks do exist...they come out of that contraption called the "mouse" nearby the computer...it has lots of click spirits just waiting to be unleashed on unsuspecting forums like spn....thats why i like to keep mine firmly under my thumb...no extra clicks..unless i say so...or the "spirit" form my past life/lives forces me to...but then i take it thta my "mouse" is bonkers and i get a new one...life returns to normal...thus i have about 50 such bonker mouses in my store - all the way from 24pin types used in 1980's to 4 pin...3 pin..round pin.. to usb to wireless....a virtual mouse museum....????????????////
 

Kanwaljit.Singh

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ਹੁਕਮੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਫਿਰਾਉ ॥ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖਣਾ ਜਹ ਭੇਜਹਿ ਤਹ ਜਾਉ ॥ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਉ ॥੫॥
According to the Lord's Command, people perform their actions; they wander around, driven by the karma of their past actions. By the Lord's Command, they behold the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. Wherever He sends them, there they go. By His Command, the Lord, Har, Har, abides within our minds; by His Command we merge in Truth.

Just posted this Shabad to say we merge with Truth?

Full Shabad on Ang 66: http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0066.html

Admin note: Please post full Shabad and or mention the page number/line number for a ready reference. Thank you.
 
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BhagatSingh

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Oh wow talk about misinterpretation! Disappointing.

ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਸ੍ਵਯੇ ॥
त्वप्रसादि ॥ स्वये ॥
BY THY GRACE SWAYYAS

ਸ੍ਰਾਵਗ ਸੁੱਧ ਸਮੂਹ ਸਿਧਾਨ ਕੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਘਰ ਜੋਗ ਜਤੀ ਕੇ ॥
स्रावग सु्ध समूह सिधान के देखि फिरिओ घर जोग जती के ॥
I have seen during my tours pure Sravaks (Jaina and Buddhist monks), group of adepts and abodes of ascetics and Yogi.

ਸੂਰ ਸੁਰਾਰਦਨ ਸੁੱਧ ਸੁਧਾਦਿਕ ਸੰਤ ਸਮੂਹ ਅਨੇਕ ਮਤੀ ਕੇ ॥
सूर सुरारदन सु्ध सुधादिक संत समूह अनेक मती के ॥
Valiant heroes, demons killing gods, gods drinking nectar and assemblies of saints of various sects.

ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਦੇਸ ਕੋ ਦੇਖਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਮਤ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਦੇਖੀਅਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਨਪਤੀ ਕੇ ॥
सारे ही देस को देखि रहिओ मत कोऊ न देखीअत प्रानपती के ॥
I have seen the disciplines of the religious systems of all the countries, but seen none of the Lord, the Master of my life.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕੀ ਭਾਇ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਹੂ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਰਤੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਏਕ ਰਤੀ ਕੇ ॥੧॥੨੧॥
स्री भगवान की भाइ क्रिपा हू ते एक रती बिनु एक रती के ॥१॥२१॥
They are worth nothing without an iota of the Grace of the Lord. 1.21.
page 40 Dasam Granth
 
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Why light a Jyot? :mundaviolin:
http://www.namdhari-world.com/nw/why_light_a_jyot.html

Kuka Faith

The importance of lighting jyot is to invite Sri Satguru Ram Singh ji to the place as HE had said that "Jis ghar vich jyot jagdi hai, os ghar vich Satguru Ram Singh ji da pehra hunda hai".

The light and ghee that is used to light jyot is also accepted by the 'agni dev'. So we should always light jyot every morning in order to invite him and then do naam simran in HIS existance.

Method to light jyot - we should light in front of Sri Satguru Ram Singh ji's photo. We need uncooked rice underneath jyot and a glass of water besides it so as to offer HIM the jal. And jal has to be changed everyday for HIM. Once we light jyot, we should prepare a place for HIM as well by putting an aasan at a place where HE should sit 'biraajman'.
 

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