Is It A Sin For A Sikh To Marry A Non-Sikh?

[dalsingh]

This line of reasoning has always held a faint odour of sickness to me.

Why are numbers a big part, why does it matter if we lose numbers to other races (no such thing as race BTW) or cultures (doesn't that smack of racist attitude?) or even other religons?

This is a matter of Sikh preservation. So no, I'm not in favour of promoting what your saying. It is even more important because certain j.erk societies (read western, certain Christian and Islamic ones) seem hell bent and obsessed in converting others to their views. Sikhs should resist this strongly as they often unwittingly find themselves at the receiving end of this funny business.

Numbers are increasingly important in the political domain and as Sikhism also encompasses miri or worldly concerns we should ensure we have a strong voice. In an expanding (often by force) democratic world it would be plain foolish to ignore this factor.

 

[Lee]

This is a matter of Sikh preservation. So no, I'm not in favour of promoting what your saying. It is even more important because certain j.erk societies (read western, certain Christian and Islamic ones) seem hell bent and obsessed in converting others to their views. Sikhs should resist this strongly as they often unwittingly find themselves at the receiving end of this funny business.

Numbers are increasingly important in the political domain and as Sikhism also encompasses miri or worldly concerns we should ensure we have a strong voice. In an expanding (often by force) democratic world it would be plain foolish to ignore this factor.

Ohh I understand that your view comes from a perspective of 'Sikh preservation', it is this that I question.

Please don't get me wrong here, but can you answer why it is important that us Sikhs as a group, survive?

 

[singhbj]

Funny but true !

Nowdays this should be the number one concern if one doesn't find a partner (opposite sex) at the right age.

 

[dalsingh]

Ohh I understand that your view comes from a perspective of 'Sikh preservation', it is this that I question.

Please don't get me wrong here, but can you answer why it is important that us Sikhs as a group, survive?

As I have answered a fair few questions, let me ask one. Why is it unimportant that we survive?

But you have highlighted an important issue. In conjunction with striving to gain numerical strength, we also need to ensure successive generations are truly touched by Sikh ethos deeply in their life. As a society we need to develop better disciplined, whole and morally upright Sikhs. Their is no point in trying to increase numbers if the products of our society are not examples of the good philosophy of Sikhism/Sikh history. I know it is normal for people to marry outside of any groupings they belong to. This in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but in all of this we must never lose sight of self preservation and that is because we should try to embody something worth preserving in this world. We didn't survive annihilation to just disappear. I still think (despite many shortcomings) that Sikhs have much to offer this world.

 

[carolineislands]

If we go by the spirtual definition of a sikh - a sikh will not be able to marry a non-sikh.

It is just like saying that a Gurmukh marries a Manmukh. However this does not mean that Gurmukh hates a Manmukh - rather a Gurmkuh would influence the Manmukh with his company to become a Gurmukh like himself/herself. Only once the other person has become a Gurmukh can they both marry - otherwise a relationship between both of them is not possible.

I would reccomend you to joing Welcome to Ggs Web Academy! Register Now! and listen to the Katha of Sukhmani sahib. The issue (not marriage), but of relationship between a Gurmukh and worldly people (Manmukh) is ncely explained - I belive it is the 4th/5th or the 6th lesson

I think it is important to remember that, just because someone is not a Sikh does not mean they are manmukh or worldly. It doesn't even mean they are less spiritual than you.

Be careful about judging...

Respectfully,

caroline

 

[Lee]

As I have answered a fair few questions, let me ask one. Why is it unimportant that we survive?

But you have highlighted an important issue. In conjunction with striving to gain numerical strength, we also need to ensure successive generations are truly touched by Sikh ethos deeply in their life. As a society we need to develop better disciplined, whole and morally upright Sikhs. Their is no point in trying to increase numbers if the products of our society are not examples of the good philosophy of Sikhism/Sikh history. I know it is normal for people to marry outside of any groupings they belong to. This in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but in all of this we must never lose sight of self preservation and that is because we should try to embody something worth preserving in this world. We didn't survive annihilation to just disappear. I still think (despite many shortcomings) that Sikhs have much to offer this world.

It's a fair question Dalsingh ji,

Please lert me re-prhase the question slightly in order to answer it.

What is more important, that the Sikh religoin grows and floreshes, or that each of us strive to reach God?

For me personaly I hold as much aligience to the body that we Sikhi, as much as I hold to the body that we may call Christianity. If guru teaches that there is no Mulsim, and no Hindu, that in fact there are only seekers, then it seems normal that one should follow whatever path one feels most comfatable with(most do so within our cultural hereitage).

Wether the Sikh faith survives, or grows, or changes or doesn't is largey imatterial to me. Much about the world we live in changes, faith, humanity, sciences, all that is except God, and that is where I put my allegiance.

 

[Lee]

I think it is important to remember that, just because someone is not a Sikh does not mean they are manmukh or worldly. It doesn't even mean they are less spiritual than you.

Be careful about judging...

Respectfully,

caroline

Heh indeed, we are are all Manmukh.

 

[dalsingh]

It's a fair question Dalsingh ji,

Please lert me re-prhase the question slightly in order to answer it.

What is more important, that the Sikh religoin grows and floreshes, or that each of us strive to reach God?

For me personaly I hold as much aligience to the body that we Sikhi, as much as I hold to the body that we may call Christianity. If guru teaches that there is no Mulsim, and no Hindu, that in fact there are only seekers, then it seems normal that one should follow whatever path one feels most comfatable with(most do so within our cultural hereitage).

Wether the Sikh faith survives, or grows, or changes or doesn't is largey imatterial to me. Much about the world we live in changes, faith, humanity, sciences, all that is except God, and that is where I put my allegiance.

You asked some important questions. It is important that good people flourish. Sikhi should be producing such people. I see that as one of its core aims. This we must never forget and when we fail to do that, we need to ask questions amongst ourselves. We also should never forget that good people come from all backgrounds, that too I see as a integral Sikh belief and the Sikh Gurus practised and highlighted this with their own lives.

The fact that the Sikhi survival growth is largely immaterial to you should not blind you to the fact that for many it is not immaterial but very important. Never forget that either.


As well as a beautiful philosophy, people like myself are blood descendants of the people who defended this thing against odds that were heavy. Whilst I am in no way suggesting that I am any better than anyone because of this you should understand my feelings towards this subject. I also believe that non Panjabi Sikhs are integral and healthy to Sikhs future.

 

[Lee]

You asked some important questions. It is important that good people flourish. Sikhi should be producing such people. I see that as one of its core aims. This we must never forget and when we fail to do that, we need to ask questions amongst ourselves. We also should never forget that good people come from all backgrounds, that too I see as a integral Sikh belief and the Sikh Gurus practised and highlighted this with their own lives.

The fact that the Sikhi survival growth is largely immaterial to you should not blind you to the fact that for many it is not immaterial but very important. Never forget that either.


As well as a beautiful philosophy, people like myself are blood descendants of the people who defended this thing against odds that were heavy. Whilst I am in no way suggesting that I am any better than anyone because of this you should understand my feelings towards this subject. I also believe that non Panjabi Sikhs are integral and healthy to Sikhs future.

Ahhhhh people huh!

As I get older I have reached the understanding that God populated the planet with a vast array of differant kinds of people, mentalities and 'mindsets'.

That the human race will eventulay speak with one voice I doubt very much. I revel in the differances, and indeed I owe my stance largely to this fact. We are all differant, and it is right that we should be so. I favour no one group over any other, I understand that others do not feel as I and this too I think is right and proper.

I fully understand if you hold differant ideas, ideals and differant levels of importance to differant things, the rich tapastry of humanity, it's exciting no?

 

[dalsingh]

Ahhhhh people huh!

As I get older I have reached the understanding that God populated the planet with a vast array of differant kinds of people, mentalities and 'mindsets'.

That the human race will eventulay speak with one voice I doubt very much. I revel in the differances, and indeed I owe my stance largely to this fact. We are all differant, and it is right that we should be so. I favour no one group over any other, I understand that others do not feel as I and this too I think is right and proper.

I fully understand if you hold differant ideas, ideals and differant levels of importance to differant things, the rich tapastry of humanity, it's exciting no?

Well in light of your comments above I'm really surprised at your earlier post which seemed to indicate that you saw no importance to the survival of Sikhs. The world is richer for having Sikhs, Sikh culture and Sikh history.

One thing we should not ignore is that there are people out there who really seem hell bent on trying to mould everyone into one shape. Be this elements in the western world who view any deviation from their own beliefs as backwards or fundamentalist Islam who deem it Gods duty to convert others. In this light Sikhism offers much thought to the question of a multicultural society and being different and being proud of that.

 

[Lee]

Well in light of your comments above I'm really surprised at your earlier post which seemed to indicate that you saw no importance to the survival of Sikhs. The world is richer for having Sikhs, Sikh culture and Sikh history.

One thing we should not ignore is that there are people out there who really seem hell bent on trying to mould everyone into one shape. Be this elements in the western world who view any deviation from their own beliefs as backwards or fundamentalist Islam who deem it Gods duty to convert others. In this light Sikhism offers much thought to the question of a multicultural society and being different and being proud of that.

Let me just reiterate what I actualy did say

I place les importance on the survival of the Sikh faith or indeed Sikhi as a body than I do on ones personal search for God. That does not mean I place no importance on it.

In addition, I do so to get this 'them and us' mentality out of my life. Phrases such as:

'One thing we should not ignore is that there are people out there who really seem hell bent on trying to mould everyone into one shape.'

Appear to me to be indicitive of just such a mentality. To me there is no them and us, only us. Wether you follow Sikhi, Islam, Christianity or the Bhudda, or indeed are Atheist just does not make any differance in my mind.

I feel that this menatality does more harm than good. I would not stand up and fight for the survival of even my own religon(I am Sikh BTW) I'll leave that in the hands of God, largely because I really don't think it matters too much.

 

[dalsingh]

I would not stand up and fight for the survival of even my own religon(I am Sikh BTW) I'll leave that in the hands of God, largely because I really don't think it matters too much.

I don't know why you have become a Sikh but you really need to rethink it if that is your attitude. Do you not think that the last human Guru largely spent his life preparing for a fight for survival against oppression and pretty much preparing Sikhs to do the same. I think leaving things entirely in the "hands of God" is a cop out. Thankfully Sikhs in the past didn't take this approach. That is why I am here today.

 

[Lee]

I don't know why you have become a Sikh but you really need to rethink it if that is your attitude. Do you not think that the last human Guru largely spent his life preparing for a fight for survival against oppression and pretty much preparing Sikhs to do the same. I think leaving things entirely in the "hands of God" is a cop out. Thankfully Sikhs in the past didn't take this approach. That is why I am here today.

Heh what I find funny is that I have spent at least two post laying out why I realise that people are differant and have differant ideas, how I understand this to be normal, and have no problems with it, and here you are basicly not understanding my POV and even condeming it as somehow wrong.

Religion is differant for us all, we all hope to get differant things out of it. It is true that my mind is caught up in the spirtual more than the temporal, the miri more than the piri, this though I simply cannot help, it is who I am and how God made me.

I become a Sikh because I was drawn to it, it answered(and still does) many questions I had about God, Gods plan and my place in it.

I may rethink(I have change my mind on many things during my life) but that too I'll leave in Gods hands.

Do you really think that Guru Ji's fight was one of Sikh survival, or one against all oppresion?

As to leaving things in Gods hands, again that is my part of me, and I can not change this unless God wills it. Do you really think 'trying' to surrender your will to God's is a cop out?

 

[dalsingh]

Do you really think that Guru Ji's fight was one of Sikh survival, or one against all oppresion?

I think it was both.

As to leaving things in Gods hands, again that is my part of me, and I can not change this unless God wills it. Do you really think 'trying' to surrender your will to God's is a cop out?

Well frankly yes. You talk as if you have no will or ability to influence what you do in life.

Can I ask why you think Sikhs were instructed to carry kirpans (bear in mind that they were not symbolic ones originally).

 

[carolineislands]

You talk as if you have no will or ability to influence what you do in life.

[SIZE=-1]You have no power to speak or to be silent, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No power to ask or to give. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]You have no power over life or death, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No power over wealth or state for which you are ever restless. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]You have no power over spiritual awakening, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No power to know the Truth, or to achieve your own salvation. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Let him who thinks he has the power, try. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]O Nanak! none is high or low, but by His Will.[/SIZE]

 

[dalsingh]

[SIZE=-1]You have no power to speak or to be silent, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No power to ask or to give. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]You have no power over life or death, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No power over wealth or state for which you are ever restless. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]You have no power over spiritual awakening, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No power to know the Truth, or to achieve your own salvation. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Let him who thinks he has the power, try. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]O Nanak! none is high or low, but by His Will.[/SIZE]

I love this piece of bani. But please recognise that if we were truly powerless in this world, Dasmesh pita would not have made so much effort to inspire and prepare Sikhs to fight oppression. Maybe that is the gift/responsibility given to Sikhs.

It was Waheguru's hukum that we emerged in this world.

 

[Lee]

I love this piece of bani. But please recognise that if we were truly powerless in this world, Dasmesh pita would not have made so much effort to inspire and prepare Sikhs to fight oppression. Maybe that is the gift/responsibility given to Sikhs.

It was Waheguru's hukum that we emerged in this world.

I think the point I wish to make is Vaherguru populated this world with an abundance of differance, I respect your right to your view, even if it is one that I do not nesicarily agree with, by the same token I do not ask you to agree with mine.

I can't help who I am nor what I feel, but I do belive that there is room for many seemingly conflicting views, and I am more than happy to leave the soldiers of God to fight the fight, my path though is one of peace and trying understand these differances and I can do no more than tread it; unless my life takes a sudden turn onto a differant way I am actualy very content with it.

I am not perfect, heh far from from it, I am manmukh through and through, but if that is what God has planned for me, then I shall try my hardest to obey this hukum.

Dalsingh ji, some are called to be Khalsa, if you are such a one, then truely I feel envy for your place, but so be it I can't change who I am.

 

[desilegend]

Q1) Is it a sin for a Sikh to marry a non-sikh even though he stays in Sikhism and his partner remains in her religion?

Who said this is SIN? Sin is when yo do something bad, rob someone, kill someone and etc... I don't think it's a sin at all.
Love doesn't recognise colour,creed,status - alll these things created by people

Q2) Is it a sin for a Sikh to marry a non-sikh and converts to his partner's religion?

No it's not, you don't need to convert to partner's religion, you can learn and celebrate festivals, holy days together.

Q3) Any other comments. Open discussion.

 

[dalsingh]

Dalsingh ji, some are called to be Khalsa, if you are such a one, then truely I feel envy for your place, but so be it I can't change who I am.

Believe you me I am no angel myself. As for being a Khalsa, I can only look at what the Khalsa achieved with admiration and try to be inspired by that. I would be kidding myself if I even tried to project myself in that mould. But one thing I am certain of is that Sikhs shouldn't take the easy or cowardly route in life (i'm not saying you are). Anyone coming into Sikhism or born with it as an inheritance should try and remember that. I have to constantly remind myself too.

 

[jahan_bakshi]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

As i have said many times... i am mixed. My Parents did not share the same religion and still dont even today.
As for a Sikh marrying a Sikh being a sin... no one can really answer that question because it is up to Akal Purakh what is a Sin and what is not. We can all come up woth both pros and cons for this topic.
I will start with the Cons, as the are most obvious.1) Because parents have different religions, they may not have the same values which can cause problems when trying to raise children. 2) The children may feel confused as to not upset their parents when " choosing" a religion.
3) Because the partners are follwing complete different paths in life, it may be hard to keep a calm and peaceful household, which in turn does not help the children to grow and learn.

And now the Pros:
1) The children will beable to learn about both religions, making them beable to really "choose" which they feel most connected to. We must not forget that every religion guides us on a different path towards the ONE goal.
2) The children will not grow up in a set religion, so once again they have more choice to follow their heart and soul. Many people have said " I'm Sikh, because my parents are" and not because they fell in love with Guru Ji.
3) The parents will have the opportunity to show their children that every religion is equal, because there are soo many people who tend to think or say things like" My god is better than your god" and other nonsense like that. But with parents of different faiths, chilldren will learn to resepct every religion."

As we can see, there are both good and bad things about this, but as for it being a sin...

Wow..sorry that was pretty long, before i finish i just want to say that this is totally just my opinion from what i have personally experiences through out my life.
Bhull Chuk Maaf Karni

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

well u clearly mentioned the pros and the cons of the fact in the rightly manner but since as u said that u been into this situation urself so wanna know were u the looser or the gainer .. i mean did u faced any problems while ur upbringing regarding religion . .. and moreover what do u think is the need of the time .. just ur opinion...