In Sikhism Is There Original Sin? Or Are Humans Morally Self-conscious Entities?

[harcharanjitsinghdhillon]

dear members

sat sri akal. base on sikhism is man a original sinner or a self conscious entity, responsible for his own actions and thoughts? please discuss and give your respected oppinions.

 

[Randip Singh]

dear members

sat sri akal. base on sikhism is man a original sinner or a self conscious entity, responsible for his own actions and thoughts? please discuss and give your respected oppinions.

We must get away from the Semitic concepts of Sin and Morality. Good and Bad, Right and Wrong.

Sikhi does not talk in terms of these concepts.

Sikhi talks about Hukam - the laws of nature

It talks about the 5 Thieves - Kaam Krodh Moh Lobh and Hankaar

It talks about being Just - and using Sabr, Santokh, etc to combat these 5 thieves.

Anyone is capble of being swayed by the 5 thieves (Mummooks), it is how much we tune in ourself into our Guru that counteracts this (Gurmookh).

 

[BlazinSikh]

WJKK WJKF,

If my memory is correct then i believe the original sin that is spoken about is the sin that we human beings are born.
question, why would GOD send us to earth with original sin, i mean why?

plus i agree with Randip Singh Ji

WJKK WJKF

 

[Luckysingh]

We must get away from the Semitic concepts of Sin and Morality. Good and Bad, Right and Wrong.

Sikhi does not talk in terms of these concepts.

Sikhi talks about Hukam - the laws of nature

It talks about the 5 Thieves - Kaam Krodh Moh Lobh and Hankaar

It talks about being Just - and using Sabr, Santokh, etc to combat these 5 thieves.

Anyone is capble of being swayed by the 5 thieves (Mummooks), it is how much we tune in ourself into our Guru that counteracts this (Gurmookh).

I think Randipji has replied to that quite well !!
Sikhi explains our actions and temptations in line with the imposing thieves or weaknesses.

We have to get away from the concepts of- ''sin is wrong, you shall be punished for your sins...blah ..blah..''
This is not the way we should think or conduct ourselves, but of course sinning is wrong and we may feel like we are punished. But the idea is more of reaping what you sow, not of some God sat on a throne, watching us sin and then sending down some punishment.

The 'reap what you sow' or as Guru Nanak Dev ji says in Japji ''aapey beejh, appeyeh kahoa'
- Is more of a Universal concept, meaning that it can apply to us individually but it also applies to the acts of man messing with creation and nature. I strongly believe that world disasters or as insurance companies claim 'acts of God' are ALL due to mans actions on this planet.

With sin also comes the talk of forgiveness.
We should be more forgiving to others.
To ask or pray for forgiveness is not wrong in sikhism and I would encourage it. We can make mistakes without realising or ever knowing, so to ask for 'bhull chuk marf' is the way to ask in prayer for unknowing mistakes.
People ask or pray for all the joys and happiness in this world including most of us sikhs.
Personally. I prefer to not be asking for anything, but to just ask for forgiveness for any mistakes, wrongful doing to others, unintentional hurt or pain that I may have caused others..etc..- These are the things I mention in my ardaas rather than begging for the successes of this world.

 

[harcharanjitsinghdhillon]

if the whole humanity is carrying the original sins, then i think there is no way for humans to earn mukti, when they are on earth..just do things related to 3 gunas, the ego, and only pay more attention on the 3 types of maya consciousness and forget about the fourth state, because we are sinners.. to go beyond must wait till the whole creation is distroyed completely, then a single judgement takes place on whole humanity.. to me i feel god is always powerfull when creation is there or not there.. his grace is always powerfull, does not mean it becomes weaker after the creation..to me i feel in sikhism there is no original sins.. majority people are thinking that only goodness comes from god but not badness. badness must be coming from other source.. in sikhism there is the only ONE without a second. man can still earn mukti, when on earth. man is a self conscious entity, responsible for his own actions and thoughts.. sikhism believe in HUKAM,, which consist of law of karmas,, developing ethical moral values, and laws of Grace, or knowing and understanding Love. thanks

 

[Luckysingh]

I understand your point and it is a fair one.
On that sense, we are a separated consciousness as we didn't attain mukti in prior consciousness.
To become gurmukh and mukht is to be free from the cycles of life and death.
We are here because we are still in the cycle or otherwise we would be completely immersed in him as ONE.
The gurus are not in our cycle of life forms and are completely immersed in him- Now,they are Him,as they are completely immersed, they and akaal purakh are as One.

Did we sin and were no good in the past ?
Well if we were good enough to be gurmukh,then we wouldn't be here now!

 

[Ishna]

Wikipedia says original sin is a Christian concept. It has no relevance within Sikhism.

Original sin, also called ancestral sin, [1] is, according to a Christian theological doctrine, humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man. [2]

I strongly believe that world disasters or as insurance companies claim 'acts of God' are ALL due to mans actions on this planet.

What about events which could be described as disasters which occured before humans evolved to what we know today? For instance, the extinction even that wiped out the dinosaurs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_extinction_event

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Wikipedia says original sin is a Christian concept. It has no relevance within Sikhism.





What about events which could be described as disasters which occured before humans evolved to what we know today? For instance, the extinction even that wiped out the dinosaurs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous–Paleogene_extinction_event

ISHNA JI,

the operative words are"INSURANCE COMPANIES CLAIM as Acts of God.."...
MOST of those are man made and man caused....no one insured the Dinosaurs...!!! ha ha IF they had bought Life Insurance...i am sure the Insurance Companies wouldnt have paid out a CENT..."ACT OF GOD" !! ha ha

Other than that imho Lucky ji ahs overstepped a little bit..MAN is NOT the Originator of NATURE...that title belongs to HIM...and He is def the Cause of all that happens...good or bad..

 

[Luckysingh]

'acts of God' are called as such because insurance companies can't foot the bill for damage to anyone or anything. So if a tsunami brings down your house, then they won't pay but if you had the same water damage due to problems in a dam or major pipes, then the water company would foot the bill.
Like gyani ji says, the dinosaurs were not covered by any policies !! he.he.hahhaa!!

My point is to people that moan, argue or simply wonder why?.why.why. why lord ?.. Why an earthquake ?
It is ALL his hukam and doing, but I don't believe it is from unfairness. I believe it is because of our messing with nature, our destroying or overiding of natural habitat, natures rhythms..etc.. I do believe that a universal balance exists and when interupted too much then an ''Act of God'' has to happen to compensate!!!:grinningsingh:

Maybe the dinosaurs did mess with nature themselves ! Maybe they were meant to have been plant eaters and they became meat eaters OR maybe they ate the forbidden fruit !!... Whatever,- we will never know but it was HIS decision and Hukam, and we can't dictate or decide WHY??peacesign

Anyway, the legacy of dinosaurs is very much alive and most kids know what a t-rex looks like.
If you see the huge Jurassic Park section at Universal, then you realise just how alive they really are!

 

[harcharanjitsinghdhillon]

Wikipedia says original sin is a Christian concept. It has no relevance within Sikhism.





What about events which could be described as disasters which occured before humans evolved to what we know today? For instance, the extinction even that wiped out the dinosaurs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_extinction_event

dear ishna
sat sri akal. what you are saying is true what everything that is created undergoes cycles of come touch and go.. applicable to everything that we can think off. the whole creation, empires, civilisation and everything that is created undergoes this cycles.. but truth or reality is not only can be known after distruction, but now when everything is still in a upright condition[no distruction yet] truth can also be known thru the GRACE of the lord, because his grace is always powerfull. we have to upgrade the lord s grace here..if god grace is becoming weaker due to sins, then we cannot call god powerfull anymore. ishna this is my oppinion. thanks

 

[Luckysingh]

As Ishnaji has pointed out 'original sin' is a christian concept.
However, the jewish concept is the complete opposite and has it's focus on 'being born pure' !!
Sikhism does not come near the christian concept but I think it is more inclined towards the jewish 'pure'.
When born we don't have any influence of maya, all we need is the air and feeding as babies. I firmly believe that a new born child who has not grown or been moulded into the maya as yet, is quite pure, clean and completely innocent. I do not in any way think it is born with 'original sin'.

 

[Archived_member15]

As Ishnaji has pointed out 'original sin' is a christian concept.
However, the jewish concept is the complete opposite and has it's focus on 'being born pure' !!
Sikhism does not come near the christian concept but I think it is more inclined towards the jewish 'pure'.

Yes that is true brother Lucky ji peacesignkaur

"...Jews like Sikhs, do not believe in personified evil, [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]Shatan [/FONT][/FONT](Satan) as an angel analogous to [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]Dharmaraj[/FONT][/FONT], is mentioned only in the story of Job in the Jewish Bible [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]Shatan [/FONT][/FONT]is also mentioned in the Guru Granth Sahib. The reference is considered allegorical in both. To most modern Jews, evil is a manifestation of man's present imperfection, of humanity's selfishness. Neither Sikhs nor Jews believe in the doctrine of original sin. As a result, neither group has a belief in the need for a redemptory sacrifice by a divine being, as do many Christians..."

- Jivanjot Kaur, Judaism and Sikhism