Bhagats - In Love With Ignorance: Reflections On The Bani Of Guru Ram Das And Sant Ravidas | Page 2 | SIKH PHILOSOPHY NETWORK
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Bhagats In Love With Ignorance: Reflections On The Bani Of Guru Ram Das And Sant Ravidas

Jul 30, 2004
Dear Brother first let us take care of thing Caste.

Should not Sikh attract the converts from outcaste as deemed by hindus ? Off course if they are converted to us they do not longer remain outcaste.

But we have to communicate to them dear brother, about formless God.
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ
रामकली महला ५ ॥
Rāmkalī mėhlā 5.
Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ
जपि गोबिंदु गोपाल लालु ॥
Jap gobinḏ gopāl lāl.
Meditate on the Lord of the Universe, the Beloved Lord of the World.

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
राम नाम सिमरि तू जीवहि फिरि न खाई महा कालु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Rām nām simar ṯū jīvėh fir na kẖā▫ī mahā kāl. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Meditating in remembrance on the Lord's Name, you shall live, and the Great Death shall not consume you ever again. ||1||Pause||

ਕੋਟਿ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਓ
कोटि जनम भ्रमि भ्रमि भ्रमि आइओ ॥
Kot janam bẖaram bẖaram bẖaram ā▫i▫o.
Through millions of incarnations, you have come, wandering, wandering, wandering.

ਬਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥
बडै भागि साधसंगु पाइओ ॥१॥
Badai bẖāg sāḏẖsang pā▫i▫o. ||1||
By the highest destiny, you found the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||1||

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਉਧਾਰੁ
बिनु गुर पूरे नाही उधारु ॥
Bin gur pūre nāhī uḏẖār.
Without the Perfect Guru, no one is saved.

ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਏਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੨॥੧੧॥
बाबा नानकु आखै एहु बीचारु ॥२॥११॥
Bābā Nānak ākẖai ehu bīcẖār. ||2||11||
This is what Baba Nanak says, after deep reflection. ||2||11||
dear brother do you think that this Mahakal is of Shaktas ?Which is in fact myth.

Does there anything else exist other than God as per Sikhism.
ਪੰਨਾ 48, ਸਤਰ 2
ਮਾਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਜੀਵਾਲਦਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
मारि आपे जीवालदा अंतरि बाहरि साथि ॥
Mār āpe jīvālḏā anṯar bāhar sāth.
He Himself bestows life and death; He is with us, within and beyond.
ਮਃ 5 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 125, ਸਤਰ 19
ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪਿ ਜੀਵਾਏ ॥
आपे मारे आपि जीवाए ॥
Āpe māre āp jīvā▫e.
He Himself kills, and He Himself revives.
ਮਃ 3 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 155, ਸਤਰ 9
ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭ ਰਾਸਿ ਤਿਸੈ ਕੀ ਮਾਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਜੀਵਾਲੇ ॥੬॥੧॥੧੩॥
जीउ पिंडु सभ रासि तिसै की मारि आपे जीवाले ॥६॥१॥१३॥
Jī▫o pind sabẖ rās ṯisai kī mār āpe jīvāle. ||6||1||13||
This soul and body all are His. He Himself kills, and brings back to life. ||6||1||13||
ਮਃ 1 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 315, ਸਤਰ 1
ਰਹਦੇ ਖੁਹਦੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਮਾਰਿਅਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਆਹਰੁ ॥
रहदे खुहदे निंदक मारिअनु करि आपे आहरु ॥
Rahḏe kẖuhḏe ninḏak māri▫an kar āpe āhar.
By their own efforts, the slanderers have destroyed all remnants of themselves.
ਮਃ 5 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 350, ਸਤਰ 5
ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਲੇਵੈ ਦੇਇ ॥
आपे मारे आपे छोडै आपे लेवै देइ ॥
Āpe māre āpe cẖẖodai āpe levai ḏe▫e.
He Himself kills, and He Himself emancipates; He Himself gives and takes.
ਮਃ 1 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]From the above examples, we find God, does all death. So God only act as super death to those who God only not let have remembrance of God.

ਪੰਨਾ 485, ਸਤਰ 2
ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥
सभु गोबिंदु है सभु गोबिंदु है गोबिंद बिनु नही कोई ॥
Sabẖ gobinḏ hai sabẖ gobinḏ hai gobinḏ bin nahī ko▫ī.
God is everything, God is everything. Without God, there is nothing at all.
ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

Lastly Brother, if you are beaten by some one, will you das as told in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੋ ਤੈ ਮਾਰਨਿ ਮੁਕੀਆਂ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਾਰੇ ਘੁੰਮਿ
फरीदा जो तै मारनि मुकीआं तिन्हा न मारे घुमि ॥
Farīḏā jo ṯai māran mukī▫āʼn ṯinĥā na māre gẖumm.
Fareed, do not turn around and strike those who strike you with their fists.

ਆਪਨੜੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਪੈਰ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਦੇ ਚੁੰਮਿ ॥੭॥
आपनड़ै घरि जाईऐ पैर तिन्हा दे चुमि ॥७॥
Āpnaṛai gẖar jā▫ī▫ai pair ṯinĥā ḏe cẖumm. ||7||
Kiss their feet, and return to your own home. ||7||
(Ang 1378)

Brother over here as you talked off the topic so das was compelled to answer you.

Akal Bless.
Last edited by a moderator:


1947-2014 (Archived)
Jun 17, 2004
To begin with: There has been no mention in the thread until today about the the nirgun/sargun swaroop of God. The tuks chosen in the above post do not address the issue of the "identity" of Mahakaal. Each of them is taken out of context and my reading is that each of them is relevant to ideas found in the shabads from which they were taken and are generally irrelevant to the original poster's intention.

So bottom line. The next post that contains a collection of isolated tuks will be deleted automatically. And continued discussion of Mahakaal will be moved to another thread.

Fair warning

Thanks: Narayanjot Kaur.


Jan 22, 2005
Re: ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ 1:

Tejwant, no need to waste time, some people just don't have the brain to tell difference between 10th Nanak and poet Shyam. Those who have love for duality don't understand. Our Khasam is only Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Those who like others khasams such as porn stories, Gurbani says the following:

ਖਸਮੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਦੂਜੈ ਲਗੇ ਡੁਬੇ ਸੇ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬੋਹਿਥਾ ਵਿਰਲੈ ਕਿਨੈ ਵੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੪੭੦}
Khasam Shod Doojai Lgay Dubay Say Vanjaareaa || Satgur Hai Bohethaa Virlai Kinai Veechaareaa ||<O:p</O:p
Those who forget the Husband Lord and connect to another are drowned merchants. Satguru, the True Guru, is the ship which carries us across but not many have contemplated.

You people get called Dasam Granthiyas because you love Dasam Granth. We love Guru Granth Sahib Ji and accept joats of Guru Nanak over poet Shyam so you can call us Nanakvaadis or followers of Nanakian philosophy.
Some people are never satisfied. Despite having a beautiful and best wife at home still they look outside thus are drowned.

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni


1947-2014 (Archived)
Jun 17, 2004
Re: ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ 1:

This is an admin note: The original poster titled this thread as Dasam Granth, but nothing in the original post is from Dasam Granth. All the shabads are from Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The message indicated by the title therefore is somewhat misleading/puzzling. Please note that the thread is not in the Bachittar Natak section. So treat this thread as if it is pertinent to SGGS.

The title has been changed to reflect the thoughts expressed by Sant Ravidas in an earlier post

ਅਲਪ ਸੁਖ ਛਾਡਿ ਪਰਮ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵਾ ॥
अलप सुख छाडि परम सुख पावा ॥
Alap sukẖ cẖẖād param sukẖ pāvā.
Renouncing the shallow pleasures of the world, she obtains the supreme delight.

ਤਬ ਇਹ ਤ੍ਰੀਅ ਓੁਹੁ ਕੰਤੁ ਕਹਾਵਾ ॥੪੧॥
तब इह त्रीअ ओहु कंतु कहावा ॥४१॥
Ŧab ih ṯarī▫a ohu kanṯ kahāvā. ||41||
Then, she is the soul-bride; He is called her Husband Lord. ||41||

Guru Ram Das (Ang 342)

ਮਾਧੋ ਅਬਿਦਿਆ ਹਿਤ ਕੀਨ ॥
maadhho abidhiaa hith keen ||
O Lord, he is in love with ignorance.

ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦੀਪ ਮਲੀਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
bibaek dheep maleen ||1|| rehaao ||
His lamp of clear wisdom has grown dim. ||1||Pause||

(Sant Ravidas, And 486)


1947-2014 (Archived)
Jun 17, 2004

I am not entertained by this and hope you are not giving me as admin or other forum members a test of some kind.

Initially you posted tuks from Sri Guru Granth Sahib in a thread entitled Dasam Granth but written in Gurmukhi -- I noticed it as I am not that illiterate. Off and on -- for a good part of last Saturday admin discussed what to do about the confusion this was causing.

So you can tell from my admin note that we changed the title and moved the thread to a more appropriate location.

You have now posted exclusively from Dasam Granth -- again we can read for ourselves -- and this thread is not going to be moved back and forth a dozen times.

Therefore, I have deleted the post above. You are free to contact me about how to resolve the problem. Perhaps you have an idea in mind that we can acccommodate. But for now -- please no tests of Gurmukhi.

Also, your signature contains a link to a commercial site -- your Gurmukhi school - You have a keen sense of humor. :welcome:

Thank you

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