Hard Talk I'm At The Verge Of Losing My Faith In Sikhi. Maybe Already Have. I Need Advice.

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Rajveer_97, May 23, 2018.

  1. RicktheSikh

    RicktheSikh Writer SPNer

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    @sukhsingh ji I was referring to his Christian and Muslim friends that like to debate religion with him. I like open discussion where there is respect, but I got the impression that the tone of his conversations with friends were in the "which religion is the true religion" vein. I find it very respectful here so far.
     
  2. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    Bro your my kind of sikh

    From all love, all I can say is "what's your point?"

    Your outpouring is not particularly concise whilst it jumps between lots of common readings of 'sikhi but it's also a pretty naive reading of sikhi.. Or for that matter critically appraising any philosophical, historical, social topic
    Sometimes when we look really hard we can't see the wood for the trees
     
  3. Rajveer_97

    Rajveer_97 Writer SPNer

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    They are largely of an educational nature but are starting to venture into the domain you mention. I'll limit my involvement in them for now.
     
  4. Rajveer_97

    Rajveer_97 Writer SPNer

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    My point, well for one I wanted to get it all out of my head because these questions and faith crises was giving me sleepless nights. To make matters worse this all hit me in the middle of exams. Secondly, I wanted hopefully a response to at least some of the questions I asked because they're the ones that recently popped up in my research. If not that, then I at least wanted some general advice, which I'm feeling satisfied about.
     
  5. Rajveer_97

    Rajveer_97 Writer SPNer

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    Truth isn't restricted by any religious label and Sikhi does the best job of putting us on the simplest path to the Truth. That's indeed what I've long believed in since I got into Sikhi.
     
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  6. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh SPNer sikhiart.com

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    It's a good idea to step back and take in the bigger picture or getting a fresh perspective on things.

    But have you worked on your self through Meditation, Truthful Actions and Acquiring and Sharing Wealth and Wisdom?

    Have you developed yourself physically and spiritually?

    Do you exercise?

    Do you consume good nutrition?

    Do you get quality sleep?

    Do you get quality sunlight?

    Do you meditate?

    Do you act according to the Truth?

    Do you have a set daily routine of performing meaningful tasks?

    Do you have a plan for the next 5 years? and for next year? and for tomorrow?

    These are important questions to ask yourself.


    The examples set by the Gurus have survived. It is up to you and I to make use of their examples and orient our Compass of Life, towards the True North.



    Bibi Bhani ji did immense seva of Guru Amar Das ji and she wanted the Gurgaddi to remain within the family. Guru Amar Das ji granted her that. So all Gurus after Ram Das ji respected her wish.

    The Sacrifice that the Gurus made confirms their Divinity.

    Do you have any idea what strength it takes to be able to sacrifice things you hold dear to you, such as your family?

    Do you have any idea of what practice it takes to constantly access high states of being? Where you able to write such beautiful hymns that resonate in the hearts of the Indian people, not just during your time but 500 years after that.

    Do you have any idea what strength it takes to be able to play the game of life at that level? Where you are organizing kitchens, holding congregations, and generating such influence by your ability to speak the Truth, that the Emperor of the whole of India, finds you threatening and decides to shut you down and torture you.

    The confirmation of the Sikh Saints that followed in their foot steps and made sacrifices also confirms the Divinity of the Gurus (as well as the Saints).

    The teachings of the Saints that existed prior to the Gurus, also confirms the Divinity of the Gurus since they both spoke the same Truth.


    It's not confined to the Punjabi or Punjabi language. The Truth is available to everyone all over the world, if they only pay attention to their inner experience.

    In my deepest experience, I find the writings of all Saints to be highly meaningful and deeply beneficial to one's life. These Saints are everywhere. Their writings can be found in all kinds of books.


    Yes.

    Contemplate it.

    This is because Guru Granth Sahib is not a linear book. It is a compilation of hymns of Indian saints.

    If you want to read a linear book, I would recommend Bhagwad Gita.


    That maybe an issue with the reader not the text.

    If you find that you are not growing, then try something else. No one is forcing you to read Guru Granth Sahib. (But if you want to know whether it is Divine then you must contemplate it.)


    Why did this shake your faith? Do you think polygamy is morally wrong?

    How do you suppose Gurus should have worked around Environment factors such as - high child mortality, Biological factors such as - sterility, Traditional factors such as - requirement for keeping gurgaddi within the family?


    Truth is also inclusive. The Gurus state" people worship God through different names, images and religions, and that these are all ultimately going to the same Oneness of Akal Purakh Sahib".

    In Bhagwad Gita, Krishan ji, who is God, explains "no matter which God you worship, ultimately you worship me and I will fulfill your prayer" meaning no matter which religion you follow, you worship the same God and he will fulfill you.

    In Bible Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to God, except through me", meaning -

    No one makes it to God without knowing the Way, a path, a methodology.

    No one makes it to God by lying their way through; without being Truthful God cannot be obtained.

    No one makes it to God without becoming purified through the trials and tribulations of Life.

    All of these things must come together in one individual if they want to see God. And they may come together in any individual from any religion or background.
     
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  7. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Writer SPNer

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    Y

    You cant blame the Gurus that that Sikhs of the modern day have twisted their teachings to their own benefit.

    How do you know God didnt align the succession of the Guruship that way as a test of your faith?

    Everthings Hukam and everythings perfect. It's up to you what you want to believe, noones twisting your arm or forcing you to accept anything- thats what freedom of choice is given to us for.
     
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  8. jsteji1

    jsteji1 SPNer

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    Rajveer
    Rajveer ji,

    You have raised a number of question from various facets of observation, that is great. As we evolve as human beings to a high level so does our level of observation and its combinations and complexities, and the facets increase too observably. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji was written over 238 years, I is very difficult to read, comprehend and assimilate and test its applicability in the test period you designate. Translation into English, and other languages doesn't complete it either but it is a start. As I continually evolve when I read the scriptures in Gurumukhi i dispel a lot of doubts. I admit I never went to school to learn Gurumukhi, I learned slowly word by word, letter by letter, and completed the 10 volumes of Prof. Sahib Singh's Darpan, all written in Gurumukhi. It took me long time. I still don't know it all, I admit, because I just read it and did not understand every part it. But my understanding was better about me, Gurubani, and the world, but continue to evolve as I read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and read the description in Prof. Sahib Singh's jis Darpan the portions where I don't I get stuck in understanding. Rajveer ji, I still go to work, raise my children, and my grandchild as I still continue to grow. I had faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jis teachings when I knew so little and now I know a little more so now I have more faith. I admit, I will never know every part of Gurbani but continue to learn something everyday.
     
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  9. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    Hey

    Love your post...lots to think about lol...

    Most of it though I.m not really interested in other than your mention of the repetitivrness of Gurbani ...

    This could be an indication that it is not devine...OR..it could mean that what is being repeated over and over is VERY important lol...

    I work for a large global company...every year we have to be retrained over and over about virus emails and how to handle them...how to recognise them...not to click on the links in the emails etc etc amongst many more topics...

    Why so? Because as humans we tend to forget things very quickly or are distracted very easily...so the information has to be repeated over and over to us...

    Guru Ji knows our state of mind.
    My question to you is...why are you so distracted about all the other things in your post...why don't you concentrate on the element in Bani that is being repeated over and over...imvestigate it....

    Let's start now...what do you think is being repeated on each page? Is it asking you to do something?
     
  10. Rajveer_97

    Rajveer_97 Writer SPNer

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    The repetition I guess is to emphasise the prime importance of remembering and reciting Naam. The questions I asked were genuine ones I had, which built up over time and I let it out in frustration. But I am starting to make peace with not having all the answers and continuing my journey.
     
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  11. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    yup, you got it in one :) focus on what is being repeated :)
    honestly...i spent years asking question after question like you...posting on forums, discussing topic after topic...opinion after opinion...sucks the energy out of you...

    nothing matters apart from what you learn with first hand experience...then honestly, the types of questions you currently ask will be thrown out the window...you'll no longer care about them nor any ones opinon...because you had a real glimpse of the truth....as Original Ji often calls it..."A Spritual Excursion" :)
     
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  12. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Not really. What is the difference between chanting Vaheguru, Om, a Buddhist chant or Lady Gaga?
    All would feel the same trance due to the chemo-biological reaction in our brains. Nothing much.
    Sadly, we all have our own interpretation of it because we do not understand our Guru's message from the SGGS, our only Guru. Naam, Simran and other catchy words are used by many to emulate what are Hindu and Buddhist rituals. Nowhere in the SGGS, this kind of repetition normally known as Simran is mentioned, nor do our Janam Sakhis, how flawed they may be, say that our Gurus chanted 'Vaheguru' repeatedly for hours as many jathas do nowadays.

    Many people get up in the early hours, do the 'Simran' and go off to sleep which is a bit odd it seems because then whatever energy one is able to gather with the repetition goes to waste. If one is into it, it is fine but one should make this practice as a springboard, not a lullaby.

    Regarding Naam, there is a very interesting video by Harinder Singh which is posted on SPN. I will ask the Admin ji to post it in this thread.

    Having said this, please do not think I am telling you it is a waste of time. It would be a waste of time if this 'Simran' is used as a warm-up for running a marathon without running one.

    As a Sikh, no question is out. It is our duty to question as Guru Nanak did when he questioned the meaningfulness of a janeiu that he refused to wear.
    So, ask along as many questions, doubts, disagreements you may have. Don't feel shy about it. Sikhi is based on that

    Cherish and relish your journey.
     
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  13. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    Personally I don't think the energy one gains goes away if they go to sleep...i feel it throughout the day also regardless...sometimea randomly oftentimes when I think of Bani or listen to shabad.. .Or just mentally recite waheguru..or any shabad...

    I think if I spend my energy during the day in negative actions I guess It would dissipate...just a guess though...

    But anyway...if I repeat lady gaga...it will be her on my mind...

    If I repeat 'sex'...thats where my mind is...

    If I repeat bani...that is where my mind Is...contemplating that wonder...

    I really cant fathom why this is thought of as the same...

    I need to be contemplating the purpose of my Simran...otherwise yes it is just partoting...

    But if i.m contemplating the wonder of waheguru...i.m already somewhat in his domain...attention is fixed somewhat...and more inclined to hear his call Lol :)

    That's what i.ve found anyway...just my own experience...
     
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  14. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Chaz,

    To be honest, what you wrote is utter rubbish and incoherent but we have gone through this before so I would leave it like that.
    Just one more thing, repeating and contemplating are two opposite things hence it is oxy{censored}ic to think like that you can do both at the same time and you are NOT,"But if i.m contemplating the wonder of waheguru...i.m already somewhat in his domain...attention is fixed somewhat...and more inclined to hear his call Lol :)"

    But whatever picks you up.
     
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  15. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    Sorry just wanted to add one more thing

    Yes just mindlessly chanting or mentally repeating waheguru is worthless...
    But if one is contemplating waheguru...what waheguru is...where is waheguru...etc...then the repetition becomes meaningful. Mind Is fixed on a subject..

    Often during simran i don't repeat anyword...i have my own personal dialogue...telling waheguru of my negative aspects...of how the panj door are influencing my behaviour...asking for waheguru help to overcome etc etc...

    Whilst there is then no repetition of any Bani.. my mind is still contemplating...the inner light still manifests and energy flows...and I am becoming more and more aware of me(soul)...the multidimensional 'me

    This is in no way a simple trance like state...mindblowinh...thats all I can say really...
     
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  16. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    Are you telling me you're unable to say a word and contemplate the subject of the word you're saying...both at the same time?

    Oh dear Lord )

    Also...'rubbish and incoherent?...thats fine by me...as Guru Nanak dev Ji said himself...describing one's mingling with Waheguru is as hard as steel.

    I hope you mingle one day with waheguru...then Harry Ji will probably also tell you that your words are rubbish and incoherent lol
     
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  17. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Chaz,

    I am glad you do not repeat but contemplate in a dialogue as a self-reflection now. I am happy you have evolved from the repetition to contemplation. I love this change and congratulations!
     
  18. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    Been doing it since before my very first post on this forum...for many many year lol

    It is you that hears the words simran and equates to mindless parroting...

    Assumptions as we know are the mother of all fu**ups :)
     
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  19. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Well, I am glad, but this is the first time I have seen you change your tune.
    Do you mean in the posts of the past where you repeated repetitions all the times meant nothing? You can pull your own posts out and you will find that this is all new from you which is a good thing.

    I agree and you are the master of this trait of yours. :)
     
  20. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh Mentor Writer SPNer

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    Please post the full shabad with your own understanding of your claim above in bold so all of us can learn from Guru Nanak. Thanks.
     

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